The Gospel According to Internet Comments

The false gospels that pervade our churches are reflected in comments that show up in response to articles on the internet. Whether the subject is moral, political, or religious, “defenders of the faith” can be counted on to respond with their versions of how people can receive eternal life.  I have rarely seen anyone who gets it right.

Following are some examples that I have garnered over the past few months. The comments are in italics, and my responses are in bold:

Jesus Christ, the Son of God loves you! As a matter of fact He loved you soooo much that He came to Earth and lived a sinless life and died on the Cross for your sins and if you Repent of your sins and accept Him as Lord and Savior, then you will be saved. Jesus Christ loves you! 🙂

 My comment: Repenting of your sins is not a requirement for eternal life.

…I have a changed life and heart after turning my life over to the god of the universe. I struggled for 20 years to obtain these changes to no avail. His word did the work that I could not. If you really want proof I can tell you how to obtain it, but you have to really be serious. If you are joking around it won’t work. If you really want to know and if God is real and He proves it to you will you give him the rest of your life? Will you make Him your God? If you are serious, God says that when you seek him with all of your heart you will find him. You must be willing to give up everything. If you are willing He will answer you. The God I serve cannot lie. Willing to take me up on it? I will lead you every step of the way.

My comment: We are not saved by giving God our lives. We are saved by believing that Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, died for our sins, was buried, and was raised from the dead.

 It is also clear that there are those who don’t like rules, don’t want to be judged, and want unconditional forgiveness. Jesus didn’t say there wouldn’t be any rules. Jesus said “if you love me, keep my commandments.” So I can understand why some would want to call me a hypocrite for pointing to the commandments. Because it causes people examine their own faults. But the bigger picture here is that Jesus paid the price for sin. He didn’t take away the rules, but He paid the ransom for breaking them if we abandon our lawlessness and follow Him. To all sinners, there is forgiveness, but it wad bought with a price, and we must repent of our sins, abandon them and walk in the light. We can’t have it both ways. We can’t serve two masters. We can’t live in sin and live for God. True Love is Jesus dying on the cross for you while you were yet an enemy of God and extending peace to you if you will surrender your life to Him and follow Him and deny yourself.

My comment: This is full of errors. We are not saved by surrendering our lives to Christ, nor are Christians under the law.

 doesn’t matter if the muslims love and follow doesn’t matter if ISIS loves and follows Jesus or angels.if either group is not saved and have not repented for their sins all of the above groups are lost in eternal hellfire.without accepting JESUS as LORD and savior NO ONE can be saved according to the bible which IS GODS is simple really,do you believe Jesus is the son of GOD and do you believe he rose from the dead for the remittance of sins? just pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you and forgive you of your sins and GOD promises in his word you WILL be saved.this is the ONLY way to heaven.see Romans 10:9,10,11,12

 My comment: We do not have to repent of sins to receive the free gift of eternal life. Jesus is Lord – we cannot make Him Lord.


The Bible says that we are saved by grace, through faith in Christ

Ephesians 2:8-9:

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you are a “defender of the faith”, but have never received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, click here:  The Real Story

1,162 responses to “The Gospel According to Internet Comments

  1. Holly, yeah – everyone wants to set their own curve.

  2. Johninnc,

    Those people who preach this, I always wonder if the people who know them would agree they are living a Holy life (let alone we know living Holy isn’t going to get us to heaven).

  3. Jason, interesting points. Politics uses religion, and vice versa, as part of one another’s strange bedfellows.

  4. Jeremy Stone goes by Deep State Exposed on Twitter and has been following me. Today, he disappointed me with a quote from Kim Clement, predicting the Trump election in 2007. It did not come to pass when he said it. I called Kim a thief, and another follower told me to take it up with God. But God gave me Matthew 24:24 for a reason.

    I am reminded of when TB Joshua predicted Hillary in 2016, and Adeola laughed at him. TBJ did it again this year by predicting Omoyele Sowore in his own country. Then Buhari rigged. Those snatched ballots were not in his dreams. Whatever political train you are on, believe not everything that rides it. These prophecies nauseate me.

  5. Helen, agree – they are frustrating grace.

  6. Sadly, these people in their efforts to bring people to God actually turn people from God with their hard believism. I don’t think they even know what sin is, to be honest.

    Repent from sin isn’t even in the New Testament anywhere. John the Baptist said repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and Jesus said repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent in the correct definition to change our mind about Jesus and trust in His perfect work.

    Thank God for and all of the saints who give clear clarity on the gospel. It truly helps our Christian growth to rest in Christ. Thank you and God bless to you all.

  7. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today. It had 10 “up” votes and 2 “down” votes:

    God is calling for repentance from sin, and for all to live a Holy life in Christ Jesus if you expect to enter heaven.

    My comment: If God required you to repent from sin (turn from sin) to receive the gift of eternal life, it wouldn’t be a gift – it would be a trade. This is the false gospel of Lordship “salvation.”

  8. I agree, great comment Keith!

  9. Keith, very good comment.

  10. I read this one today from John Piper’s “Desiring God: website. Piper is responding to a subscriber’s question about “willful sinning” (Heb. 10:26) threatening the salvation of the sinner:

    “Christians struggle with sin because we, in this life, are still sinners. The presence of sin in us will not be eradicated until that glorious day when we see Jesus face to face. What a day that will be! But until then, we fight sin by faith, and we can experience assurance inside the fight. But we also believe there are forms of “willful sin” that evidence a heart that has not been saved. Which leads to today’s question from Josh”.

    Piper goes on to state:

    “In other words, it’s not a single act; it’s not a few acts; it’s not periodic acts. It’s rather a settled, persistent continuation in sin. What destroys the soul, what puts it beyond forgiveness in verse 26 [chapter 10 of Hebrews] is not sin per se, but an eager, deliberate, willing, persistent, settled pattern of sin”.

    My comment: Calvinists often label those who subscribe to a grace view of the gospel as “antinomian”, or “against the law”.

    However, the true antinomian is the Calvinist who, although he bases at least some of his assurance that he is one of the elect (or possesses eternal life) on conforming his behavior to God’s law, believes that perfect adherence to the law is not required to enter heaven. Rather, one can still sin, albeit on a limited basis, and still expect to enter heaven.

  11. Brannon Howse has a video in which he exposed general overseer John MacArthur as a useful deep state tool, who condemns revolutions against tyrannical governments, even when the train of abuses has reached the breaking point. Calvinist fake pastors are convincing the sheeple to give up their guns. Next time a see a Nigerian with the orange beret as his profile picture quote MacArthur, I am in the mood to drop the knowledge on him. Howse stands against abusive anything: husbands, pastors, or rulers. I don’t endorse Howse, but I can’t help myself to avoid watching the drama.

  12. Keith, yeah, it’s a biz.

  13. Yes, “scam” is a good word for it because salvation by works builds big churches and sells books. The unregenerate masses flock to it because they like being told that Christ’s work alone is not enough, that you must do something to know you are going to heaven. Those who promote iit commit the same sin as Balaam, who greedily coveted the riches that Balak offered to curse Israel:

    Jude 1:11:

    “”Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah”.

  14. Jason, she’s right – salvation by works is a scam.

  15. One of Renee Roland’s friends is Nyanda Bundu. Her videos are encouraging. In her latest video, she called salvation by works a scam.

  16. Following is from a story about a “weeping painting” at a Greek Orthodox church in the Chicago area:

    “This is a calling on all of us to change our lives,” he said. “We need to turn to her in prayer and humility. And cleanse our hearts and souls of inequities so we may find salvation.

    My comment: There is no point in praying to Mary. And, cleansing our hearts and souls of “inequities,” much less “iniquities” is not how one receives eternal life. Eternal life is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  17. gmain – Welcome.

    Wow, what you said about the MacArthur study Bible just hit home. I went to several Bible studies at a church I used to attend. I had stopped going to the services because of the pastor starting to get into some things like Rick Warren and Brennan Manning. But one of the women Bible teachers was really good. Until she started quoting from the MacArthur Bible. In the beginning she didn’t say it was him, but I remember a couple things sounding confusing and asking her and she couldn’t explain it from Scripture.

    She was also going to a teacher called John Politan (in Scottsdale) who was diligent to preach TULIP as the means to spirtual maturity (as I see it). Anyways, she used to be some a good Bible teacher, I love her and care about her. But her doctrine started to change, and it certainly didn’t distill like dew. And that was the end of that Bible study…

  18. gmains1000, thanks for commenting.

    As you’ve observed, focusing on our performance can only lead to doubt.

    There are so many people like MacArthur out there whose teaching tends to attempt to undermine our faith by changing our focus.

  19. I’ve been reading the posts here for a number of years but never responded to anything before. I have picked up some useful ‘gems’ here to defend grace. I’ve been a believer for 57 years. I got saved around age 11. About 1997 I bought a MacArthur Study Bible. I began to listen to him sometimes on the local radio as well as a number of other guys. At that time I knew he preached the Bible, not realizing his Lordship gospel. But listening and reading his notes began to make me doubt. It didn’t last too long because I knew there was something amiss. His Lordship false teaching was making me look at my performance rather than looking to Christ and His finished work by faith. Thanks for standing faithfully for the gospel.

  20. Holly, you make a really good point.

    So many of these false teachers think that doing something in addition to simply believing the gospel is necessary for eternal life. As such, they do not seem to trust in the power of the gospel message.

  21. Back maybe around 2005-06, somewhere in there could have been later, I remember seeing a video by Paul Washer, just watched a little, because he made me ill. I didn’t know an exact reason why except he was condemning. I just didn’t want to hear him. When I listened to more when someone challenged me as to why I wouldn’t listen to him, I bought some transcripts from sermonaudio and I also made some of my own (much easier to buy the written transcripts because it’s painful listening).

    I was just kind of talking to the Lord and asking why he didn’t preach the gospel itself, and it came to me also (should be obvious) that he didn’t believe the power of the gospel, but He trusted in his own words. I guess they are all pretty much the same in their regard. They love to be heard for their many words.

  22. Phil, to my knowledge, none of the “biggies” has ever come on here to set us straight. But, many of their acolytes have.

  23. I have thought about asking this here for some time. Has John MacArthur or any other well known loadshipper ever dropped by here at Exp to “set us straight” with their LS “truths”?

  24. Holly, the likely reason that MacArthur wouldn’t give people the gospel is that he teaches that believing it isn’t enough.

  25. John MacArthur did a repeating series on saved or self-deceived (he re-vomits out the same ‘sermon’ over and over).

    Trouble is, if someone was a tare, he doesn’t give them the truth. If someone tells him they are unsure if they are a Christian, does he preach the gospel to them?

    No! This is what he tells them, ” my immediate response is, “The reason you may feel you’re not a Christian is because you’re not a Christian.”’

    Here is what MacArthur says it takes: (only part of his long list of lies from the enemy).

  26. Hobbs, I know what you mean. And, ministries like Hocus Focus (on the Family) only spawn and perpetuate the lies.

  27. So glad there are a few people around defending grace or I’d still be committing hara-kiri every five minutes reading these kinds of comments.

  28. Here is another in the same thread:

    Easy way to think about it. Is there anything you would not give up to spend eternity with your Creator? If you can think or rationalize one then you are on the wrong road.

    My comment: This is exactly the way that Satan wants you to think about it. If you think you have to give up some sin, or another, in order to receive the free gift of eternal life, you simply don’t understand the gospel. The gospel is not about us giving up anything. Eternal life is a FREE GIFT, without cost or obligation to the recipient.

  29. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today:

    If you think you are a Christian, you’re probably self-deceived. Salvation includes repenting of and repudiating one’s own sin…

    My comment: Translation (sarcasm intended): If you simply believe the record that God gave of His Son, but you haven’t given up all of your sin, that means that you are probably self-deceived as to whether or not you have eternal life. Even though the Bible says that you can know you have eternal life, based solely on having believed in Christ alone as Savior, I say you can’t.

    Your salvation includes repenting of and repudiating your own sin. My salvation includes me repenting of and repudiating certain of my own sin, although since I still sin, I haven’t repented of or repudiated all of my own sin. But, God will still let me into His kingdom, because He knows how hard I have tried to avoid sin. Jesus is my Lord and Helper!

  30. Jason, yeah, your friend is in serious error.

    Believing that Jesus is God in the flesh is not “polytheism.” And, as you said, Jesus is our kinsman redeemer.

  31. A friend of mine from last year fled from the Evangelical Free Church in Germany over lordship. Later, I find out that he dogmatically denies the Trinity.

    About the Incarnation, he makes this comment: “I have never confirmed a polytheistic ‘3 person God’ and if you want me to, I can prove it to you. Also, I am confirming the incarnation because I actually believe that the Word became flesh. Denying it logocally means saying the Word stayed Word as Spirit and never came in flesh, but only ‘inside’ flesh…”

    These comments make me as sad as lordship itself. I am not sure what gospel they believed. Earlier, he denied that Mary contributed any “flesh” to Jesus. That leaves Jesus totally unrelated to us and unable to represent us. Later in the comment, he he says that “God actually killed his Word by nailing it to the cross”. That sounds really bizarre.

  32. Jason, you bring up an interesting point. That kind of statement can have all sorts of implications. I recently read an opinion piece at an SBC site that said that trying to appeal to a lost person’s desire to avoid hell is inappropriate. The writer didn’t even seem to know what the gospel is.

    The message that lost people need to hear is the gospel message, faithfully presented. Any other message, or “means,” is simply off-target.

    That is the primary reason why I painstakingly attempt to keep this site focused on gospel issues, and to discourage ancillary discussions about things that distract from advancing the gospel.

  33. From OneWayApologetics (YouTube):

    “If you use carnal means to attract men, you are going to attract carnal men”

    There is something woefully wrong about that statement. All men are carnal before salvation. If you don’t attract carnal men, you don’t attract any men at all. Jesus died for carnal people.

    I notice that they virtue signal about dress. Allowing casual dress is condemned as carnal.

  34. Jason, very good point.

    People just cannot seem to keep from perverting the gospel.

  35. From Hope Restoration Ministries:

    “Walking with God is a lifestyle. God becomes the most important thing in your life, There is a purpose and destination – eternal life. The journey is without its own trials and tribulations, yet there is comfort in JOHN 16 : 33 and with this comfort there is great Joy and peace when you Know God id on your side with all which you face. Minister Nyiko Gudlhuza shared the word at our Midrand campus”

    The purpose of “walking with God”, discipleship, or whatever they call it, is not eternal life. Believers already have it, otherwise the comfort of the verse they cited does not exist. This doctrinal mush is very Warrenesque.

    When it comes to the clear preaching of the gospel, there are no first world countries. The lights went out worldwide because of gospel corruption. Church is theater.

  36. Jason, that does seem Pentecostal and Keswick all in one.

  37. I found the page of Berea Baptist Church in Nigeria, and they had this to say:

    So one day I was teaching the children’s class on Sunday and I told them they have the power of God in them and they can heal the sick and make the blind see if they want to. One of them then asked me: aunty are you talking about real life?? The truth is this is what so many children think. They have heard so many stories in the Bible and the truth is all it is to them is STORIES. One will say that “oh they are children, they can’t understand yet”. Please let’s stop that. Once a child is able to speak and understand right from wrong, there is nothing else that child can’t understand. There is no baby Version of the Holy Spirit. Children need to break away from fantasy to reality. I see children coming into a deeper understanding of the word. I see children expressing the gifts their father has bestowed upon them. I see children orchestrating great moves of the spirit.

    I know from common sense and experience that this is rubbish. I can’t do miracles. They are affiliated with the Nigerian Baptist Convention, which occupies the same part of the alphabet soup as the National Baptist Convention. They are not Bereans. I live in reality, they live in fantasy. They are indistinguishable from the Pentecostals. The NAR has absorbed all. Tripe about dying to self follows.

    For the teenagers, it’s a stage in their lives where self consciousness and society is the order of the day. I see teenagers dying to self and laying aside every distraction to chase after God and all He is.
    For the youths, it’s all about priorities and control. I see youths just making God their priority and letting go of everything they hold on to. I see youths free falling and trusting God wholly with their lives. Making God their only option. No plan B’s.
    In general I see God’s children coming in to a deeper understanding of God’s Love for them.

    It smells like Keswick. They go deeper than the Bible. Romans 10:7 need not apply. They quote from the New Lordship Translation:

    “Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭NLT‬‬

    I don’t know that verse. The Bible says nothing about “roots growing down”. Always deeper. There is also a Deeper Life Bible Church in that country. It featured on a photograph of a dilapidated high rise building that housed six other churches. It went viral. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.

  38. Jason – I think a lot of Spanish people have been in Roman Catholicism so it’s a natural segue over to load-ship sadly.

    John WI – I’ve been meaning to do an article on some of Spurgeon’s quotes, I cannot believe how much kickback you will get from those who profess grace. Please let him know that not only did Spurgeon say that Calvinism is the gospel, but taught turning from sin as part of receiving the free gift of eternal life. If you need some quotes and sources, let me know.

  39. JohnWI, it might be worth informing your friend that Spurgeon often undermined the gospel with his Calvinist/LS bent. I have found a lot of people who were oblivious to Spurgeon’s error, and others who have made excuses for it based on very superficial research.

  40. My missionary friend, who use to be a teacher at New Tribes Bible Institute, and as said he is free grace, is posting quotes of Spurgeon on Facebook. We help support is ministry, so I have been debating whether or not I should call him and ask him why.

  41. Jason, that is really sad. My Spanish isn’t very good. All I can think of is: “Spurgeon? No way Jose.”

  42. I had the misfortune of finding promotion of Spurgeon and Washer, in Spanish, on the page of a friend who has some of my Kenyan friends in common. I don’t know what to say.

  43. Jason, Rhema is extrabiblical revelation, which is why they don’t have respect for the written Word. As you can see from the long exchange in Bible Bereans on FB, he ignored Scripture and mostly came back with his own opinions. He was removed for lordship teaching.

    Be happy he blocked you, he was a false teacher, just as you said. I saw enough of him over the several exchanges in the group and on your page to see he was puffed up and thought of himself beyond Scripture.

  44. Jason, I have no idea what this guy means. The gospel is universal, and defending it is not looking down on anyone.

  45. This comment was said by a friend who showed his sharp teeth.

    “A good Christian is one who appreciates both logos and rhema. That’s what Iam. Every experience must be in agreement with what is written. So where is my fakeness my brother? Be careful with what you say about others. You have looked down upon Africans foe far too long. And now God is raising us. You will be surprised what God will do through me in your stagnant life. Be careful with your abuses. Iam not fake. I know something”

    Then he blocked me. Rhema refers to NAR teachings. He promoted experiences as a sign of genuineness. He and I were once on the same page, but he now he puts himself on the pedestal and is playing shell games with the gospel in the many comments that transpired. I don’t know what he means by looking down on people. I have been consistent with maintaining the gospel, as best as I could, and I desire that people know that they are sons, not slaves. Several of my other friends commented to me to say that his theology was inverted.

    One of his points: “at calvary Jesus says it is finished(all is paid for) no more need for brokers who can connect you to God,no more need for whipping yourself until you bleed to show remorse,no more need to buy indulgences,no more need for gospel pimps”. He concluded, “yes…he paid for everything”.

  46. Jason, you are right – using any behavior, including church attendance, as a litmus test for whether or not someone has eternal life is completely inappropriate.

  47. This picture comment was made on Trevor Noah’s page and attributed to Occupy Democrats.

    “If you believe that someone is:
    * a billionaire without seeing their taxes
    * a genius if they hid their college grades
    * a great business man if they bankrupted casinos
    * an irresistible ladies man if they have to pay for sex
    * a philanthropist if their charity was shut down
    * a patriot if they dodged the draft
    * a Christian if they don’t go to church
    * an innocent man if they refuse to testify

    You’re not just gullible, you’re a Trump supporter!”

    For the sake of the Gospel, I concede all points but one: if you believe that someone is a Christian that does not go to church, it does not make you gullible but a Berean.

  48. Jason, yes – “should” is consistent with grace.

  49. On a forum where people are talking about a revolution similar to the Yellow Vests, someone made this comment: “And d bible make us to understand that we should mend our ways”. It is interesting that he used the word “should”. That is consistent with grace.

  50. Holly, yeah, there were so many similar bad comments.

  51. Johninnc, they often mix and match the Sheep and Goat judgment with James 2. I’m so tired of hearing partial Bible verses used and abused.

  52. One from today:

    Again, the demons believe in Jesus. Belief isn’t good enough. The proper response is required, which is works of charity, especially charity to the very least of the brethren of Christ.

    My comment: Belief in Jesus as Savior IS enough to receive the free gift of eternal life. If works of charity were required, eternal life would not be a free gift. Believers SHOULD be loving and charitable, but works should never be used as a “litmus test” to prove eternal life.

  53. Africa isn’t the only place with false Messiahs. It is all over including China and Europe and of course America. We have plenty of false Christs and false prophets. We can just expose their evil deeds to the light with His Word.

  54. Jason, that is really twisted.

  55. I have recently stumbled upon some horrifying footage of a man being apparently paid to pose as Jesus at a Pentecostal church in Kenya. The man looks exactly like the Michelangelo painting of Jesus. This is not a passion play. They are actually worshipping the man as Jesus. I thought Owuor was the worst. This is sick.

  56. Jason, interesting quote. You are right that retaining eternal life isn’t dependent on any faithfulness on our part.

  57. This is a comment that a friend made concerning Leah Sharibu, a Bokkko Haram hostage: “How about her blood being on your neck for supporting Buhari and APC? I know human lives don’t matter to you jare, as long as God don sort you out. Anyway, if bokoharram arrest me and tell me to renounce Jesus I will do it, does it mean I’ve actually renounced him? Na my own I talk, my faith no reach that level”

    That level of honesty is rare. He is disgusted by hypocrisy in the churches and seems to understand correctly that eternal life is not dependent on his own faithfulness.

  58. Jason, it could give that implication.

  59. And the line about healing implies that I need to be at a deliverance service next Sunday. No thanks.

  60. Jason, the focus on change would imply people need to look to life change for evidence of eternal life.

    One is free from the penalty of sin and has eternal life the moment he believes in Jesus as Savior, even though he will still sin in this life.

  61. Why do I find tweets like this so annoying?

    “Religion doesn’t save
    Religion doesn’t change you
    Religion doesn’t heal you
    Religion doesn’t set you free

    Jesus does. In Him alone our hope is found”

    Change and healing are the very essence of religion. Count me out. And yet, if I know I am saved and set free, and I rest in that knowledge, my life changes from sadness to joy, and my bitterness is healed.

  62. Hobbs, agree. There is so much darkness out there!

  63. They’re pointing people away from The Saviour with these comments. Christ has already paid the price so we don’t have to go to hell. We trust in Him alone for our salvation, not ourselves.

  64. And another from “Renew Your Mind,” by Billy Davis, Ph.D.:

    The preponderance of evidence in the Scriptures clearly teach and show that a child of God can so sin as to be lost.

    I am convinced that the evil one will do anything within his power to see us in hell. And if making people believe that they can “coast in to heaven” without being a good and faithful servant, then he has succeeded! Let us make a concerted effort to enter in by the strait gate! To God be the glory!

    My comment: No. This is a heretical gospel of salvation by works.

  65. And this “gem” from “Redemption Gateway” in Mesa, Arizona:

    So what should we look to for salvation assurance?

    If we don’t put too much weight on any past decision, or a present understanding or even a future hope, how do we come to assurance of salvation?

    You use all of the above.

    Do you remember your life without Jesus and do you remember coming to him in repentance and faith at some point?

    Do you love Jesus right now and are you growing in love for him in your heart, mind, and soul? And is this love spilling over in your love for others?

    Do you long to be with Jesus? Do you long to be with him and experience an unhindered, face-to-face relationship with your savior?

    Assurance of salvation is a marathon not a sprint. Don’t try to cut the race short with quick answers. Let the reality of salvation play itself out in time. The author of Hebrews has a good word for us. “Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith.” Hebrews 12:1-2

    My comment: If the above is true, then a new believer could not possibly have assurance of eternal life. That would make John 5:24 not true, and therefore mean the Bible was not really the word of God. The above recipe for assurance is no assurance at all. It requires fruit inspection.

  66. John 6:47, I really doubt that he sees the contradiction.

    I found another one today from a guy named Jack Wellman, who is identified with the Brethren ministries:

    If you have never had a time in your life where you have repented of your sins, which means you have turned away from them and forsaken them, and then put your trust in Christ, God sees you as still be defiled and the judgment that awaits you is sure and certain (Rev 20:12-15).

    In another article, Wellman said this:

    People are not willing to deal with their sins and so they simply head down the easy path of destruction. The broad gate is broad because so many are going that way. It’s like an 8-lane expressway, but it’s going in the wrong direction. They, like I, needed to turn and go the other way (repent) and head down the narrow path, difficult as it is. Even though the narrow gate is difficult to take, at least there is “a” way. It’s better than no way at all. We should be thankful that God made a way through Christ. He had no reason for this, other than His love (Rom 5:6-10).

    My comment: People are quite willing to try to “deal with their sins.” Wellman is promoting “dealing with their sins” by trying to make a deal with God, rather than to accept that Christ has dealt with their sins.

  67. johninnc – I wonder if the person who wrote the “Christian Courier” thought about the contradiction of saying that a gift can be conditional. The Bible over and over calls salvation a FREE GIFT. A gift, by definition, is free, and yet God, knowing that man would have a hard time accepting what He says about salvation, put the word FREE with the word gift in the Bible.

  68. Chas, yeah – it’s one of the most miserable sites I’ve ever encountered.

  69. Johninnc, that is some major cognitive dissonance going on with that
    Christian Courier. One more “Christian” publication I don’t hafta read.

  70. From “The Christian Courier”:

    It is, however, a mistake of unfathomable magnitude that so many have adopted the view that this gift does not require a willing recipient who happily acknowledges that the gift may be undergirded by conditions. …

    A gift can be conditional! …

    Two important things must be emphasized at this point.

    Eternal life or “eternal salvation” is conditioned upon one’s obedience to the Lord (Jn. 3:36, ASV, ESV; Heb. 5:8-9).
    Fidelity must be maintained if one ultimately is to enter heaven (Heb. 3:12-19; 6:4-8; 10:26-31).

    My comment: Stay away from this rubbish!

  71. Jason, people often misuse scripture to undermine the gospel. They may throw the “what about”s” at you, or tell you that you need “the whole counsel of God,” or some other euphemism for trying to add works to the gospel. They may even call themselves “Bereans,” but their mindset is to read their preexisting belief in eternal life by works into scripture.

  72. A conversation ended with me saying: “I don’t need the word of Jesus. I need the gospel. You are irrelevant”.

    It is a shocking thing for me to say. He was going on and on with unnecessary works and knowledge and refused to accept me as a believer based on faith alone. He told me I need the word. When people tell me I need anything, I am like, nonsense. Whatever yada yada they have, I don’t need it. John 5:39 comes to mind. Of course they mean works. Reading the whole Bible is a work.

    He was also selling me baptism and telling me that Jesus is the Father. His country and political affiliation are irrelevant.

  73. JohnWI, I can’t fathom why anyone who has a heart for the gospel and who cares about the spiritual well-being of others would either favorably quote or recommend Spurgeon.

    Spurgeon was the standard-bearer of Calvinism/LS for his generation. He is still a darling of that set today, but also seems to get a pass from some who should know better.

    Favorably quoting Spurgeon (and so many similar others) undermines the gospel message.

  74. Jason, I’ve heard the term, although if there is a book I haven’t read it. If they want to be disciples, they might do better to listen to Jesus (John 8:31-32).

    I assume they speak of a couple of the NT passages about being crucified, likely Gal 5:24 (crucified the flesh with it’s passions and desires) but it speaks of walking in the Spirit vs. the lusts of the flesh. They can’t do that by finishing in the flesh that which God began in the Spirit.

    I like this one about being crucified from Gal 2:19-21

    For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

  75. Exactly.

    That “reverend” is far out.

  76. Jason, I’m not familiar with this guy or his book.

    I think I’ll give it a pass.

    Our postion as believers is that we were crucified with Christ and we are risen with Christ. As such, we are dead to sin (Romans 6:7)and alive unto God through Christ (Romans 6:11).

    The non-biblical term “crucified life” seems to confuse the two.

  77. Here is a reply to a Leftist fake pastor: “Anyone following @RevDrBarber able to recommend a contemporary, positive, progressive book on the HOLINESS of GOD, or THE CRUCIFIED LIFE? Thank you”

    And I am like: don’t need that. I live the liberated life. “Crucified life” is just as nonexistent in scripture as “repent of sin”. Paul preaches about our crucified position. “Crucified life” implies slavery. Those who preach it don’t live it.

  78. Jason, that sounds like a real eye roller.

  79. Lordship hip hop: My Temple by Bryann Trejo

    I found this song on someone’s Facebook page immediately after accepting a friend request. I only saw politics before accepting.

    This song is full of virtue signaling about diet. The singer boasts about working hard and claims to be free from sin. Tupac is a step up.

  80. Holly, that’s a really good question.

  81. John, on the heart transplant, why is it that they believe they have had one? They can’t know until they’ve ‘persevered until the end’…

    Yes, that’s what it is, they frequently use the passage from Ezekiel to ‘prove’ pre-regeneration (as I like to call it).

    Jason – too bad on the sign, hopefully people ignore it until they hear the truth.

  82. Jason, I have seen unequivocal statements that anyone who supports this or that political party can not be a Christian. It is just one more false litmus test of eternal life.

    The sign you saw was both wrong and inappropriate.

  83. The “conservative” comment makes me think of Adeola again. She does not appear to be a Trump supporter, but the Left makes her look conservative. Bokkko Haram and the NAR (fake pastors) bother her deeply. There are so many nuances of political opinion, and the left vs right grid does not account for everything. How “conservative” do they require you to be? Like LS itself, it’s void for vagueness.

    Today, I was watching the parade and saw this comment: “Repent of all your sin and ask God into your hearts. Jesus is coming soon. Please choose God”. We know how wrong that is. I also thought it was inappropriate street preaching.

  84. One from today:

    You can deny the evidence but it’s foolish to. The religious elite (Pharisees and Saducees) saw Christ in their midst and they denied Him. It takes a heart change to believe. A supernatural miracle and God is in the transplant business. Happy 4th my friend!

    My comment: This makes it sound like regeneration precedes belief. If one needs a new heart to believe, which God provides before belief, then God is responsible for providing or withholding one’s belief in Christ.

    This is classic Calvinist error. God desires that all men be saved, and eternal life, not faith, is the gift of God (Romans 6:23).

  85. Thanks Holly!

    I hope you and your family have a great 4th.

  86. Good comments Johninnc – I wonder if that person thought the incestuous adulterer of 1 Cor 5, or the drunkards at the Lord supper of 1 Cor 11 were conservative? Or for that matter what about Solomon and his wives and false gods?

    People seem to always be determining how someone is saved either by thought process or deed vs. belief or rejection of the gospel.

    So many people definitely believe water baptism is salvific. So then why didn’t Paul do it each and every time? Why did he thank God he didn’t?

    People just won’t hear the Word nor share the whole counsel of it (presumably they don’t know it). Thanks for some more good answers. Have a nice celebration on the 4th.

  87. Another excerpt from today:

    We also have to obey that gospel of death, burial and resurrection by obeying Acts 2:38. We must be born again of the water and the spirit.

    My comment: This person appears to think that one must be water baptized to be born of the Spirit. One has eternal life, that can never be lost or forfeited, the moment he believes in Christ as Savior. To add the requirement of water baptism to receive eternal life constitutes a false gospel of works.

  88. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    …all true Christians are conservative…

    My comment: This is a direct assault on the gospel. It literally means that there is a political litmus test that can prove that someone doesn’t have eternal life. This would mean that we can judge all non-conservatives as lacking eternal life, and that someone would have to assess their political beliefs for assurance of eternal life.

    This is completely non-biblical.

    Please note that I don’t want to start a political debate and that I will not entertain or post any political comments.

  89. Sometimes they think if they go in the opposite direction they’ll get it right. They look at the prosperity teachers preaching money coming to you, so they preach the opposite. Either way, it’s still error. Loving money we know is not good, nor depending on it. But your friend doesn’t have it right either sadly (as you know).

  90. Jason, this is a good request to ignore.

    It is true that Jesus would not change a Christian away from Him, but like you said, it is not necessarily true that everything around or about a Christian will change.

    This person has implied that one’s attitude toward money is a litmus test for assurance of eternal life.

    My guess is that he feels pretty good about his level of generosity.

  91. A post from a friend request that I have ignored:

    Many have denied and betrayed Jesus Christ because of money.
    You changed religion because of money.
    You are worshiping other gods because of money.
    If truly Jesus Christ is in you He will change everything around you but not money to change you from Him”

    If Jesus is in me, that does not guarantee that everything about me or around me changes. It is possible for a believer to be pierced with many griefs because of money. To some extent, that was me.

  92. Some of them also seem to think that no one will be able to buy or sell unless they take the mark – or, alternatively, have a big stockpile of physical gold.

  93. Jason,

    I know what you mean about misquoted verses, or taken out of context. Or even some of the OT passages that some might be spoken specifically to Israel or even enemies of Israel. Some I give the benefit of the doubt to, as maybe they’re learning the Scriptures. 1 Thess 4:17-16 is always comforting to me, even if they quote it, because it’s still His Word. And it’s meant for us ❤

  94. Johninnc, true, and their books and blogs. Of course you know that even secular people are selling condos in underground missile silos. Pretty interesting the world knows, and many who profess Christ know He’s coming again, but they deny the truth.

  95. Holly, I think that denying the pre-tribulation rapture is a key component of these peoples’ commercial enterprises. They have to sell people supplies to equip them for the tribulation. Otherwise, no sales.

    And, their concern about Christians taking the mark is unfounded.

  96. Johninnc

    I’m noticing a couple interesting trends with the preppers (on both sides).

    The ‘Christian’ ones think they’ll be here for the Tribulation, and of course dependent upon their eschatalogical position can think we’re here the whole time or some of the time. Basically even those who claim to believe in eternal security say those of us who are pre-Trib aren’t ‘prepared’, therefore we’ll somehow the mark.

    Kurschner, Rosebaum, Van Kampen, all have a similar attitude, and that is we are just wanting to ‘escape’ (presumably they’re all gung ho to be eaten by beasts, killed by the sword, famine, martyrdom etc.), and they seem to feel that somehow they are better qualified because they’ve read Rosenbaum or Van Kampen’s book 🙂

    For all these people it’s never enough that we believe He is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins. This is what they both have in common. They are capable of committing fully and giving Him control. They of course have renounced all their sins (except evidently pride and harshness and recognizing sin in their lives).

  97. Jason, I know what you mean. In the “doomsday prepper” site that I quoted from a couple of days ago, the guy used the first half of Romans 6:23, without even pointing out that there was a second half.

    The situation you cited in Africa sounds like abuse.

  98. The Gospel According to Bible Quotes

    Facebook and Twitter are full of Bible verses that take up entire short posts, with no commentary. Their favorite verses give a strong clue to their gospel. Most quotes are pointless. Anyone can go to a Bible site and find the verse without their help, so they are really saying nothing. It is just part of the picture parading. The verse is usually out of context just by being there. The accumulative effect of the verse quotes is to preach the Letter that Kills. If their favorite verses are from the Sermon on the Mount or the Parable of the Vine and the Branches, I can tell that they are LS. If I dig deeper, I inevitably find that they are affiliated with false teachers. At some point, they will explicitly deny grace.

    The only thing from Paul that they quote is to give your body as a living sacrifice. They turn even Paul into Law.

    If they quote Romans 10:10, they are Romans Road and probably love Franklin Graham.

    If they quote Acts 2:38 and the end of Mark, they are probably Church of Christ.

    Even if they quote John 3:16, they may quote discipleship verses elsewhere.

    If they really are about grace, they inevitably have interesting things to say. They do not treat their wall as a place to go scripture bombing. One had something sad to say about African Christians: their enslavement is worse than I imagined. They are overworked by the church misleaders and not allowed to take time off for family. Sexual sin includes not abstaining from one’s spouse when the man of god orders fasting. They have to pay “firstfruits” before tithe. I never knew that doctrine. After tithe, they have to sow seed, more money. They are slaves, not sons.

    If they quote 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18, it is not comforting at all. The unseen words are always, hurry up and believe a false gospel.

  99. I found the following on a “doomsday prepper” site today:

    But it is not enough just for you to intellectually know that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins.

    The Scriptures tell us that we must individually commit our lives to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. When we give our lives to Jesus, He forgives our sins and He gives us eternal life…

    Jesus asks that you give Him control of your life. That means renouncing all of the sin in your life and making Him your Savior and Lord. Just to know intellectually that Jesus died on the cross and that He rose from the dead is not enough to become a Christian…

    Are you ready to make a commitment to Jesus Christ?

    “Lord Jesus, I want to become a Christian. I know that I am a sinner, and I thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I believe that you are the Son of God and that you rose from the dead. I repent of my sins and I open the door of my life and ask You to be my Savior and Lord. I commit my life to You. Thank You for forgiving all of my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of my life and make me the kind of person that You want me to be. I will live my life for You. Amen.”

    My comment: Neither committing one’s life to Jesus, nor renouncing all sin, nor giving one’s life to Jesus are requirements for receiving the free gift of eternal life.

    This is very similar to the Southern Baptist Convention’s (SBC’s) false gospel formula, but packaged with a “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late” kind of appeal.

  100. Jason, there is so much confusion and what we once thought would not ever be believed, people would rather believe (a lie). Shaking my head, but I do that every day I go by posts on FB, and try to leave them with some Scriptures or this site, or my site, and just pray that someone might be saved from out of the fire.

  101. Jason, that is really out there!

  102. A crazy female pastor in Nigeria says that Titus fish and Vitamin C will cause you to miss heaven. The social networks are laughing. The deepest lie from the deep blue sea is Lordship Salvation, and this is one of its many applications.

  103. Good Jason, I’m glad you did!

    As we see daily, people are confused and carried about by every wind of doctrine. And they twist Scriptures to their own destruction (and those who are hearing them).

  104. Because of the confusion that I saw, I have ignored a friend request.

  105. Jason, I don’t even know what to say with all that nonsense they were spouting. I have been told before by mini-accusers of the brethren that I don’t have the Spirit.

    I hope you don’t spend much time in all that confusion, my head would be spinning.

  106. I agree John on the confusing teaching of that person.

    I think people who may (or may not) be sound sometimes tend to go beyond what it says in His Word by their own thoughts. I prefer just to have someone lay Scripture out without any confusing statements of their own. We know of course, He is not the author of confusion.

  107. Jason, you are right that we must be careful to avoid suggesting that believing in Jesus as Savior involves taking on any obligation. If grace is free, it is without cost or obligation.

    Believers are sons of God.

    And, the Copeland reference, in and of itself, is troublesome.

  108. This one is extremely subtle. In what follows, it sounds mostly right, but there are some things that make me extremely uncomfortable.


    Grace and Peace to you.

    Back to our thoughts and meditations on the subject: “Being Led by the Spirit Through Walking in The Spirit”.


    Rom 8:12 “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God”.

    Every person redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ is indebted, only to the Holy Spirit. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that we are redeemed, so we are obligated to live according to His dictates. We are indebted to Him to the tone of living the Spirit filled and the Spirit controlled life.

    My comment: we are debtors? This is another way of saying that Jesus did not pay it all. We are slaves and not sons. It sounds just awful. The scripture that he quoted doesn’t sound that way. The text says we are not debtors to the flesh, but it does not say what we are in debt to. It’s a debt of gratitude.

    He says we are obligated to live right. That is too strong.

    He goes on:

    We are not in any way indebted to the flesh. We are not to live according to the directives of our carnal mind (the flesh). We are free from the sin nature, the carnal mind (the flesh). Rom. 6:6-14.

    The Holy Spirit started the redemption work in us and it is through the Holy Spirit we can sustain it. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit we would kill the deeds of the sinful nature. We’re indeed sons of God when we depend on the Holy Spirit to dictate for us.

    My comment: we are sons only if we obey him? We often point out that disobedience does not cause a child to cease to be his father’s son. George Strait says in one of his songs that fathers do not love their children every now and then. The last verse of the song is about a sinner entering heaven by grace alone. He hears the song from the other side: “it’s a love without end, amen”. Are we better than God?

    Now he justifies his lordship comment by quoting the next verse of the passage:

    Rom. 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
    Exo. 33:14. “And He said, My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest”.

    The Holy Spirit’s leading is the presence of God in the lives of those He redeemed through the blood of Christ. We should therefore yield to the leadings of the Holy Spirit to sustain the work He did inside us.

    How do we yield to the Holy Spirit without stress? How do we live the Spirit filled and the Spirit controlled life?

    My comment: he is totally clueless about how to yield to the Spirit. His subtle suggestions get us focused on self and back under the law. The word Spirit-filled belongs in the Mess-Age with the other hyphenated words: god-energy, light-seeds, etc. It never occurs in the literal Bible translations. The whole article reeks of the false gospel of lordship salvation, Deeper Life, and other NAR doctrines of demons.

    The author has other posts quoting NAR men of god such as Copeland. This is a friend of Sharjeel. Strangely, the journalist that Surriya, Sharjeel and I follow never even satirically talks about the “Spirit-filled life” in her videos exposing goofy Christianity in Africa. She has seen enough of the madness that is called holy spirit. She is much more about being a humanitarian. And yet she confesses that Jesus is enough. She has a simple, childlike faith that inspires.

  109. Jason, I hope that you have helped them too!

  110. Last month, I had an amusing conversation on Discord. Lewis Adame likes to use it as an alternative to mainstream social media. Gamers like Discord. I first discovered it as part of a gaming community. A troll showed up and started virtue signaling and playing the race card. He also started street preaching in classical, fire and brimstone, lordship style. Commenters were saying that he was not there to “spread the faith”. The troll’s arguments included scripture bombing, dazzle-tastic pictures of the Borgia jesus, videos from NAR pastors, and accusations that I am a Bible denying atheist.

    During the grueling exchange, the troll said that I lacked the “holy spirit” and was not born again. I told him that I do not need a spirit to believe the gospel and I refused to address his issues. I did not want to be distracted from believing. The notion that I need the Holy Spirit in me to believe is nothing less than pregeneration. His holy spirit seemed to be a burning in the bosom. When fake pastors manifest its presence, my African friends mockingly call it the spirit of the African forest. It isn’t holy at all.

    A commenter said he used to be Protestant, used to pray in the morning, and used to have “spirit water”. I don’t know what he meant by that. Holy water in an Episcopal church?

    Another comment of his said: “hey [namecalling], also stopping the practice doesn’t mean you stop believing”. He seems to get it. He can clearly separate faith from these goofy practices, which is probably why he left church.

    The troll said: “but you fell away. Understandable, now you’re lost in sin. ok, makes sense”. Typical lordship insults.

    Another commenter said: “faith in christ, that’s the whole idea of being a protestant”. I don’t know about “protestant” anymore, but he has the right idea of being a believer. He also said he never stopped believing.

    The troll said: “Mind as well stop believing, both end up in hell”. This is how lordship manipulates. They never believe the believers.

    The first commenter said: “that’s not how it works” and “main purpose is to believe”. As we keep saying. Believing is not just the main thing but the only thing that results in receiving grace that saves.

    The troll said: “yeah but some people don’t repent and stop sinning”. Always a but.

    The two commenters appeared to have the childlike faith that I had before coming out of confusion. I hope that I have helped them.

  111. And I used to think that embracing and believing are equivalent.

  112. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today. Please note that I have bolded certain phrases for emphasis:

    The One who knew no sin, must now become sin. And He did. For homosexuals. For murderers. For child molesters. For you. For me. But though He did all of that so that we could live with Him, most will reject Him and prefer to hate Him who is good.

    This is who we identify with if we are Christian. We do not identify with our sins. I do not proclaim (if I were any of the following) that I am a homosexual or an alcoholic or an adulterer, a murderer. I would instead tell you that I am a Christian, a man of God who by His grace, saved me though I was at war with Him.

    I said all that to say this: Those who hate, who build their temples of flesh via perversions, hate, and the LIE, will consider not only us who exalt the Christ, but the Christ Himself as hate. The liars will call God, a liar. In other words, Satan and his minions have never and will never stop denying the Messiah and His sheep, like me. They have identified with their father, the Devil

    My comment: this one is really tricky. The writer seems to suggest that anyone who identifies with their sins identifies with their father, who is the Devil.

    Identifying with our new sinless nature and who we are in Christ is a constructive focus for Christians. However, failing to consistently do so is not a litmus test for who does, and who does not have eternal life.

    If it were, then we could readily determine that anyone who proclaims they are any one of these things does not have eternal life. And, an introspective person would feel compelled to ask themselves if they identify with Christ or with their sin.

    Jesus paid the full price for our sins, leaving us nothing to pay. He was raised from the dead, proving that His payment was accepted. Anyone who believes that has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited.

    The Bible does not say “whosoever believeth in Him and identifieth with Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

    Also, many people who identify as Christians have never believed in Jesus as Savior.

  113. One from today:

    The whole world has been deceived. Being deceived in itself is not an excuse or nobody would have to worry.They think that good people go to heaven and bad people to Hell(if they believe in Hell) but truth is we are all bad, and the only people that go to heaven are those of us that humble ourselves before Jesus, thanking Him for dying on cross for our sins, inviting Him in, and yes repenting to best of our ability

    Those that go to Hell are the ones that die rejecting Christs free gift.

    If we support abortion homosexuality, the removal of God/Christ from classroom Public square, then that is only evidence that we are still rejecting Christ

    My comment: This person mixes truth with error.

    We do not have to “thank Jesus for dying on the cross for our sins” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. And, we don’t have to “invite Him in.” The commenter adds “repenting to the best of our ability,” which he never defines.

    He is right that those who end up in hell are those who have rejected Christ’s free gift.

    But, one’s attitudes and behavior have no bearing in providing “evidence that we are still rejecting Christ.”

    A person receives eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  114. Paula White does not have the gospel right. She doesn’t have the right authority either to pastor a church. And being an adulteress with Benny Hinn kind of shows her obedience may not be quite figured out yet, so if she’s relying on that for eternal life, she needs to be concerned. Too quickly we can be out of obedience, then what?

  115. From Paula White: “God comes into covenant with us because of our faith and obedience”

    That is not the Gospel. She never tweets it.

  116. Jason – you’re right. In the end we always need to keep our focus on the fact that the lost need saved….

  117. Johninnc,

    Thank you (regarding my latest article). I had someone really confused and in fear again for someone using certain terminology with her. I hope it was clear.

    John MacArthur has a sermon on ‘the only road to heaven’ and he sure doesn’t share the gospel but a HUGE and I mean vast list of conditions that NO ONE could be saved with.

    He seriously doesn’t get it.

  118. Holly, John MacArthur is bad news.

    Confessing sins is not a requirement for receiving the free gift of eternal life. Neither are any of the myriad conditions MacArthur tries to add to the gospel (turning from sin – which is included in MacArthur’s definition of repentance, willingness to obey, and so on). Not to mention that MacArthur teaches that faith (and repentance) are granted by God.

    By the way, I really enjoyed your latest article!

  119. John, Sharon most certainly has assumed the role of God in her judgment, and may not be considering where her final destination may be if she doesn’t come to know the truth. But many false teachers of today make similar comments.

    This one from John MacArthur may be a little more ‘polished’ than ‘Sharon’ but this is the type of cistern a lot of these people drink from.

    MacArthur says:

    “Here’s what God says, Confess your sin,
    Repent and embrace His Son as your only hope of salvation.
    That’s the first thing He says.
    And if you don’t agree to do that, you’re going to hell forever.”

    Where is the gospel in his quote? Where do we see confessing our sins as part of receiving the free gift of eternal life?

  120. Jason, very well put.

  121. I don’t want to guess what his affiliation is, lol. His party’s symbol might be Candace’s big tent or Pelosi’s broom. Or he might be shaking hands with the Conservative Mexican. But whatever. The enemy of my enemy is the lost soul who needs the gospel.

  122. Following is a comment I read today by someone going by “Sharon,” regarding a public figure with whom she disagrees politically:


    My comment: “Sharon” has assumed the role of God in judging whether or not this person has eternal life. Such comments undermine the gospel, and lead me to believe the commenters who are “defending the faith” may not really understand it.

    This is all too common, as many people will infer that God is a member of their pet political party (whichever that may be).

  123. Holly, yeah, I see a lot of the same mentality from professed atheists.

  124. John and Jason, agree.
    A lot of the atheists have quite a bit in common with the load-ship false doctrine. They think they’re good and better than others. Similarly to the Pharisee praying in the square.

  125. Jason, that is the place to be!

  126. And there’s always a sinner who thinks he’s better than you. I thought I was better than Museveni, and Wurmbrand thought he was better than me. Finally, I decided I had enough of the You Are Damned game and got on the grace train.

  127. Holly, it is a very common mindset – either be better than worse sinners or do enough good to offset any bad.

  128. Johninnc – that comment is sadly what a lot of people believe and they also don’t like to be compared to other sinners who are ‘way worse’. I have even heard some say if Hitler got to go to heaven, they don’t want to be there.

    They really don’t understand, not even one who makes a lie will enter heaven… (Rev 21:7)

  129. An excerpt from a comment to a political article today:

    My next door neighbor is concerned for my soul. To my knowledge, I have not cheated anyone out of anything, nor murdered, nor violated many of the ten commandments.

    My comment: Whoever wrote the above demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the gospel. He doesn’t seem to see his need for a Savior, as he thinks he’s been pretty good.

  130. Jason, it sounds like you were on the receiving end of a lot of misplaced anger. Politics, by its very nature, is dependent on numbers and consensus. Grace isn’t as popular as LS.

    I am glad that Sharjeel is committed to the truth of God’s grace.

  131. I was in a group called Jesus is the Only Way. It was 100% political, with zero doctrine. It was Trump supporting, from the right. The one post with doctrine denied OSAS and came straight from the admin.

    I was in there by accident. I had been asked three questions upon joining. I answered the questions by stating that Jesus is the only way and that Lordship is the wrong way. I was accepted. And straight off the bat, the first post was lordship from the admin, who goes by Joseph Saladino on Facebook. Abiding in Him twisted and all that.

    One of their posts said, essentially, turn from abortion or burn. I don’t hear this on Kevin’s Corner or at #walkaway rallies, where the message is that true tolerance is more likely to be found on the right and that the Democrats are the real racists. This was virtue signaling from the right. I couldn’t take it. I let them know. I left permanently. Another member left and expressed appallment at the works salvation preached.

    One of the admin’s comments to me was: “[my full name] it has a lot to do with it you Hellbound baby killing coward you don’t stand up for the kids for righteousness you’re an evil buffoon repent bye-bye fool enjoyable baby killer”.

    I never said I was for abortion. I had asked what abortion had to do with Jesus is the only way. I felt like I was in a racist, bigoted, intolerant group, just as the Left accuses us. Probably connected to the NAR, which ought to be judged by the same logic as that applied to Klanned Parenthood. They have destroyed the black church. Adeboye, Suleman, and Bushiri peddle their demonic doctrines. Adeola, Sowore, and Daddy Freeze exposed them. But I digress.

    The admin was so triggered that he commented on my own post, where I had shared a grace based thought of an African who goes by Ninyo. He had a vision of a pastor whose Bible turned into a gun and started shooting the sheeple. It symbolizes the genocidal character of the lordship fake pastor who drags them back to the Old Covenant. I added my own comment: “the Gun is the master, sheeple slave”, making reference to the lyrics of a Bobi Wine song, where “the Gun” originally referred to a dictator. The admin commented: “enjoy hell babykiller”. Lordshippers are pro-life when it comes to babies, pro-death when it comes to refugees from the penalty of sin. That guy was sick.

    Not long after that weird incident, another user showed up and liked many of my comments, including the post about the gun.

    Last week, Sharjeel visited me from Nigeria. We went on a road trip and visited Jim Floyd. He talked about a ministry that he does there and set my mom at peace about me going. I am excited about the opportunity to be involved. Sharjeel knows about Ron Shea and is committed to the truth about God’s grace.

  132. Jason, you have summarized it well.

    LS is the disease and the rest of it is just symptoms. There are lots of people who give up one false religion for another.

  133. Someone comments: “The Message of Repentance and Salvation is NOT a Church Doctrine BUT The WAY To Heaven”

    It doesn’t say much. By repent they always mean of sin.

    Someone replied: “Nowonder its full of false and unbiblical doctrines…I wonder how it leads to heaven”

    He gets it. Lordship is full of unbiblical doctrines in a zillion variations: “jesus only” baptism, reprobation, calvanism, oneness heresy, get your miracle, and Owuorism. How can sheer chaos lead to heaven? Easy-believism is straight. People are coming out of lordship cults still believing lordship. It it the disease. The rest is symptoms.

  134. John – I didn’t see the date on when you are going on hiatus, but I read your other two comments on Roman Catholicism and the atheists. It reminded me of a couple of similar things I’ve seen lately. They think they are ‘apologists’ and what I find happens is they can do a good job of convincing someone to their way of thinking, just like a good attorney. But like all debates, it’s not necessarily truth on either side.

    I rarely see the true gospel posted in this discussions, but every now and then someone will. Apologetics tends to have a lot of proof texts which may be relevant, but people often don’t know the underlying context from His Word so at the very least it’s lacking substance or more often downright accursed.

  135. John, I see so many of those kinds of sites throughout the internet.

    One thing I’m noticing that is disturbing is some of the people that claim to understand grace are compromising and hanging out with those with a false gospel. Some say, ‘we don’t see eye to eye on everything, but they’re my brethren’. I don’t know if they are or aren’t, but not likely with their false gospel.

    One additional interesting thing is that these same people are calling those of us who defend the truth of the gospel ‘divisive’. Of course the Bible says it is those who bring false teachings are the ones who are doing that (Rom 16:17; Titus 3:10-11).

  136. The site you describe sounds pretty hard core Pentecostal. They at some point will probably try to pressure for money. Sounds like they base salvation on works, entire sanctification, and experiential Spirit presence. Since all this has to take place tithing and giving must follow as part of a “true” believers works.

  137. One from today:

    Evangelicals are heretics, pure and simple. That does not mean they are all bad people. They are without communion with the Church.

    My comment: this comment was written from a Roman Catholic perspective. Some people who identify as evangelicals are heretics, but not for the reason the commenter cited. If anyone teaches a false gospel, he is a heretic.

  138. I just read a bevy of comments to an article in a back-and-forth between professed Christians and professed atheists.

    I never saw any comments from any of the professing Christians that talked about how to have eternal life.

    In a thread to another article, I saw “turn or burn.” No gospel, just a religious regurgitation of 19th century Spurgeonism posing as the truth.

  139. We have recently received a semi-barrage of spam comments pushing a certain website that purports to promote salvation through Jesus, but is instead a virulent attack on the gospel. I won’t mention the site here, but this is the general approach:

    1. Reference current events to biblical prophecy
    2. Give arguments as to why there is a God
    3. Try to convince people that the Bible is the word of God
    4. Provide a false gospel that conditions eternal life on forsaking sin, obeying Jesus, and asking God (repeatedly, if necessary) to give you the Holy Spirit. Also, remaining saved is conditioned on refraining from sin, and walking in the Spirit.

    It is basically a “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late” message. The comments started with more vague language, but have become increasingly prescriptive as to how to gain and keep eternal life.

    Satan is willing for people to believe as much as possible about the Bible, without their actually believing in Jesus as their Savior.

  140. That particular one did not have LS on his wall. He was addressing fake pastors that talk about heaven while ignoring the needy, typically Pentecostal, WOF, and NAR. It was on a political group. He probably understood where I was coming from.

  141. Jason, although I didn’t mean it the way it sounded, you are right, your gospel is never wasted even if that particular one didn’t see it, I always believe there is a reason and that it comes with power.

  142. Jason, I think it’s always good to share the gospel, and I don’t think it’s in vain.

  143. Leaving a like is the online equivalent of raising your hand. But I am not saying I am sure of anything. I hope that my sharing of the gospel is not in vain.

  144. Jason, I’m unsure if you were saying Azeez ‘liked’ your post or not, but trust me when I say, accursed teachers who are teaching false gospels only ‘like’ a post because the higher the number of ‘likes’ on most social media drives more people to see the post. Not just FB, but comments on websites too.

  145. Here is something interesting. Azeez Ademola has some interesting posts in a certain group. One piece of his satire said, “Nigeria fire service is in heaven, and that’s why when fire occurs, we dial ALLAH or JESUS, while d US dial 911” (originally in all caps, and the name of the country was abbreviated).

    Azeez is usually reminding his audience of James 2:19 and is speaking of practical matters. All talk and no action is uninspiring.

    I shared Ralph Yankee Arnold’s video, “Why the cross is about fire insurance”, and received a like. We are on the same page about both matters. Once again, grace resonates.

  146. Chas, yes, the Roman Catholics have all sorts of sacraments added to the free gift of eternal life. It’s really sad because they’ve had it drummed into their heads that the Catholic church is the only way to be saved, and they are afraid to look into the truth in His Word. They still are taught they can’t know it without guidance from the Catholic Apologists or Priests.

  147. Jason, yeah. They were becoming a distraction.

  148. I think I noticed some comments were deleted, lol.

  149. johninnc said:

    “they believe part of the gospel. They may believe that Jesus is God, that He died on the cross, and that He was raised from the dead. They might even say they believe that He died for our sins. But, they don’t really understand that His payment for our sins was complete. In other words, they think they must, or may have some ‘contingent righteousness,’that if they would really try, could help atone for their sins.”

    That describes Roman Catholics exactly.

  150. Brad, you brought up a number of good points.

    I would like to add some of my thoughts to a couple of them.

    You said: The thing about soul winning I’ve realized is that the person has to be aware they need saving in the first place.

    My comment: Yes. That is why talking to religious people can be so difficult. They may have a variety of beliefs about their inherent goodness, or lack thereof. But, they think that their religion will, can, or might save them. So, they are fearful of letting it go. Such people know they need a savior, and think they may have found it in their religion.

    Jesus addressed this need in Nicodemus by telling him that unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

    You said: Is this why God’s drawing is such a necessity?

    My comment: Yes. I think that God works in all sorts of ways in peoples’ lives to convince them of their need and his solution. It is through God’s word that people come to faith, and His word often must be delivered by someone who understands it (like with Philip and the eunuch).

    You said: That’s the problem with works for salvation beliefs of all kinds, they naturally cause a person to see themselves as “good” in their own efforts.

    My comment: Some people see themselves as good in their own efforts. Others don’t really think their efforts will be effective, but they don’t really trust in Christ as the solution. This includes people who think that Christ is necessary for salvation, but that He is not enough. In other words, they believe part of the gospel. They may believe that Jesus is God, that He died on the cross, and that He was raised from the dead. They might even say they believe that He died for our sins. But, they don’t really understand that His payment for our sins was complete. In other words, they think they must, or may have some “contingent righteousness,” that if they would really try, could help atone for their sins.

    Whatever the case, these are some of the false beliefs to which all the different variations of the false gospels of “Christ plus works for eternal life” appeal.

    You said: No wonder it said at the end of Ephesians 2:9 “lest any man should boast”.

    My comment: Yeah. That makes it plain that no man could ever contribute to his eternal salvation.

  151. I have to say johninnc. After this long discussion with my uncle I had been having; I completely understand why you moderate the comments the way you do here. Especially for people who are in error and only interested in pushing their errors on others. I remember way back last year when my uncle first emailed me. I started off by asking simple questions: “Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?” he replied yes. Then I asked “Do you believe anything else besides the Bible is also the Word of God?” he answered yes. Correct me if I’m wrong – but I think I should have stopped replying right there and then.

    The thing about soul winning I’ve realized is that the person has to be aware they need saving in the first place. So then sometimes the bad news has to be given before the good news. What’s the best way to do that in person? It seems a little strong to open with “hey buddy, you’re going to Hell”. Because it is such a common perception that Christians just use fear to get people to believe them. But at the same time they actually should be afraid or at least concerned. Is this why God’s drawing is such a necessity?

    The discussion with my uncle became so complicated that it was actually beginning to affect me mentally. I was spending all of my emails just cleaning up after his mess, only for him to ignore it all and palm it off as nonsense and keep going. So I blocked him and deleted all of our emails. Nobody should ever have to read what I read from him. No one.

    I simplified the situation for those who know the Truth and those who don’t. Metaphorically; we are standing on a solid immovable rock that is surrounded by a raging river of water. Those in error are in that water, but they believe that they will be able to keep their heads above the water level forever by their own efforts. When they inevitably start to sink from exhaustion, those who are willing to admit to their error eagerly get on the rock, but those who are too consumed by their pride would rather sink and drown, before ever having to admit to their error.

    That’s the problem with works for salvation beliefs of all kinds, they naturally cause a person to see themselves as “good” in their own efforts. The longer they believe such errors the more prideful in their apparent “good” state they become. Their pride, if left unchecked, makes them feel good and their “good” works become to them as a drug fix is to a heroin addict. Then they don’t want to let go of their addiction to their pride and would rather go to their graves, than ever quitting it.

    No wonder it said at the end of Ephesians 2:9 “lest any man should boast”.

  152. Yeh Holly. It is funny that the very verses that warn of them are the same verses they use to make us more aware of them. They don’t know that we know and they expose themselves to us by not knowing that they are doing so. Because we know that they don’t know that we know. I know that this is a challenge to read, but they don’t know why this is a challenge to read. Because they don’t know what we know. Their irony is a challenge to not know, because we already know what they don’t know, and knowing is half the battle. The other half is their battle against knowing that two halves make a whole. A whole is not known by them. But we know a whole is what they don’t know. Because they are halves, seeing nothing but words on a page. But we know they are not just words on a page. They are words requiring a whole in order to be understood. But they see a half as a whole. Because they have never seen the other half. They see nothing because they don’t see everything. Knowing this, we can know the whole, by rejecting the halves that don’t know that they don’t know. They are the ones who expose themselves by not knowing. But we know they don’t know. And knowing them is the other half of the battle. If you know, then they know nothing in your view. Because your view is of the whole. The whole they have never known to be knowable. Because they do not know what they think they know. And what they think they know is that we don’t know. But we know their knowing is not knowledge. It is no knowledge that they know best. They know what I mean. Because they believe not knowing knows no bounds. So they don’t know that they know what I mean. They don’t know. Do you know that they don’t know? Because they do know one thing, and that is nothing. If nothing was something, they would know everything.

  153. Lewis Adame, the Conservative Mexican, has a video called, What’s Your Darkest Secret. In the comments, I shared my story, how I was redpilled about lordship, relating especially the NAR and fake pastors. It wouldn’t be appropriate to paste the whole comment here. Suffice it to say that he intimated agreement by saying: “the corruption of the church. A sign of what is to come if we don’t wise up”.

  154. Brad, so ironic, the passages you used on the false teachers looking like the sheep. Yet the very thing the fruit inspectors use to see if someone is ‘truly saved’ is outward appearance and good works.

  155. Their group has the Five Solas as their statement of faith. I reminded them that the Five Solas is clear on the gospel, and they aren’t, to no avail. No repentance in the Five Solas, even though it is classic “Reformation” stuff. Figure that.

  156. Jason, and it’s likely her definition of repent was “turn from sin.”

  157. And then I got banned for arguing against lordship. One of them told me that John 3:16 says to repent and believe in the Greek. I called her out on it. After more grueling argument, she eventually admitted that she made a mistake. I said it was ok. A few hours later, they removed me. Their posts are filled with MacArthur and Washer.

  158. Jason, that is really ironic.

  159. I was in the group Exposing NAR Heresy on Facebook. Someone advertised MacArthur’s book on Paul. She said, “give it a read”. I said I give it a pass. And she liked my comment. What happened, lol?

  160. Jason, yes, that is quite the contradiction! I once heard someone at a crowded event announce over a public address the opportunity to come “earn free stuff.”

  161. Someone tweeted a picture of a sign that said, “Free medical check-up for eight thousand naira only”. Reminds me so much of the contradictions of LS, not to mention corruption (2 Corinthians 11:3).

  162. Brad, yeah, much of professing Christendom approaches scripture with trying to read into it their pre-existing belief in receiving eternal life by works. It’s just not in there.

  163. Yep. God gave us a single book containing everything we NEED to know. To never stray from that book is to remain protected from error.

    But if you’re going to read it out of context and only with the interest of twisting it to suit your false beliefs, you might as well be reading Harry Potter. The result will be much the same. Error.

  164. Brad, you are right that the Bible says that false teachers will look like the real deal. That is why the “gospel” being espoused by anyone must be compared to God’s word.

  165. Considering that the Biblically accurate definition for “Christian” is someone who has trusted in Christ alone for salvation… then no, only a very small percentage of those who wear the “Christian” label are actually Christians.

    “Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.”
    ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    The term “Christian(s)” is a label accepted by God in His Word as seen in these 3 times it is mentioned there. So many other labels and group names are not in God’s Word – like “Catholic”, “Calvinist” and “Mormon” for a few examples. These false groups just call themselves something they really aren’t at all. They have changed the definiton of what a Christian is and have deceived many men and women in doing so, but God’s definition of a Christian will always remain the same.

    Satan has his puppets teaching lies while wearing the “Christian” label outwardly. They are against God while claiming to be for God.

    “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
    ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬

    “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Note the repeated emphasis on false teachers looking like the real deal. Even mentioning Satan himself. In the first passage it tells us to not be surprised about this either; “And no marvel”, “Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness”.

    The only effective lie is the lie that succesfully appears as truth, otherwise the lie fails. No person in history (I hope) has ever been deceived by a lie that made zero effort to conceal what it is to them:

    “Hey buddy unicorns are real, but what I just told you is a lie” fails immediately to convince anyone because it is a lie with no disguise.

    But what about:

    “Hey buddy unicorns are real”… now the lie has the disguise it >needs< in order to (at least) be considered by people, because no declaration of it being a lie is made – the implication being that the existence of unicorns is the truth.

    “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Note the words "many" and "few". Many wear the label "Christian", but few actually ARE Christians.

  166. Jason, I tend to agree with you. It is unlikely that large percentages of populations of any nation are Christians.

  167. From Freedom Force Battalion. “Traitors Have Mark of the Beast”. YouTube, Mar 20, 2019.

    This lady reveals a dirty secret: the three largest Christian nations are USA, Brazil, and Russia. Bolsonaro gets a mention. She cites a statistic: Russia is 80% Christian, with “faith in Christ”. I call baloney. Most professing Christians do not know the gospel, and Russia is mostly the farthest removed denomination from grace: Eastern Orthodox.

    Every once in awhile, I keep tabs on Q. It’s a mixed bag. John 3:16 is sometimes quoted, and other times one gets Romans railroaded. Eschatology aside, the most important thing of all is being downplayed and muddled.

  168. katmazdobelieve

    I just checked in today and the conversation was edifying. Thanks to all of you.
    I am praying for everyone.

  169. Holly, yes I was being a bit rash citing that verse without checking context, I heard it recently and it stuck in my mind. Thanks for your thoughtful replies despite what you are having to deal with, have prayed for your situation.

  170. Hobbs, that is spoken to a nation under the law, and Christ is the end of the law for those of us who believe. If we look at that verse in context, the likelihood is that this is a non-believing Israelite, similar to the Pharisees who pray to be seen of men, but their hearts aren’t seeking God, nor do they believe upon Him. But whatever way it is spoken of, they did not have the same mediator that we do, Christ, who is both King and Priest (along with prophet) and as John said we have an intercessor who always prays for us.

    I do know the condemnation we can bring, but remember again, we are not under the law, so just asking Him to help us along as we try to walk in the Spirit vs. the lusts of the flesh always helps. And I believe as we just trust Him in that, spend some time with Him in His Word and in prayer, it is the good thing we’ve chosen and it won’t be taken from us.

    I know some of the Word seems scary, but we have to ask, is this speaking of our position or our walk? Or we might ask, is this speaking of being justified to eternal life, or one who already is who needs to walk in the Spirit so that we can be justified in the sight of others, thereby being an example for others to follow? Or does this speak to eternal salvation or a physical or temporal deliverance from something?

    Anyways, that has helped me a lot as I look at who is being spoken to. Obviously we want to do right in our new man, but we do war with the flesh. One day we’ll be delivered of that too.

  171. John, thanks for encouraging reminder re. Romans 8:26.

  172. Jason, agree that “asking Jesus into your heart” as the way of receiving eternal life is not biblical.

  173. Right, I meant Revelation 3:20. I usually see it as a prooftext for the tired old “ask jesus into your heart” nonsense.

  174. Jason, I’m assuming you meant Revelation 3:20.

    I don’t think that Romans 10:10 should be included in a gospel presentation, because it gives the impression that verbally or publically confessing Christ is necessary to receive eternal life, which is not true.

    Revelation 3:20 is viewed by most free grace proponents as a call to believers for a more intimate fellowship with Christ. That view makes a lot of sense.

    It also would be consistent with grace to view “open the door” in Revelation 3:20 as a metaphor for believing in Jesus as Savior. That would only make sense if Revelation 3:20 was not part of the letter to the church at Laodicea (in other words, if it followed the letter to the church at Laodicea and was an appeal to non-believers).

    In any event, the problem with using Revelation 3:20 as part of a gospel presentation is that it is so easily misused and misunderstood to imply that one needs to desire a relationship with Jesus in order to receive eternal life. Desiring a relationship with Jesus is not a condition to receiving the free gift of eternal life. And, people imbed all sorts of works into the meaning of desiring to have a relationship with Jesus.

  175. I really hate it when people share salvation verses with me and they include the Disciples’ Prayer, Romans 10:10 and Revelation 10:20. And they are people with whom I have shard the gospel. They have been Romans Railroaded.

  176. Hobbs, I know our minds can wander sometimes. We can be comforted by remembering that the Spirit intercedes for us in prayer (Romans 8:26) when we don’t even know what we should pray.

  177. Yeah, it’s easy enough for your own mind to condemn you at times, thinking God has cursed you or something, without other people actually saying such terrible things. Sometimes I find the Bible itself quite scary, for instance the bit about ‘even his prayers are an abomination’, if one is in a very low state things like that can get a hold and you start wondering if God isn’t answering your pleas because you’re really reprobate and such. The mind is a very tricky thing.

  178. Holly, that is abominable. I am sorry that you experienced the abuse from these mean-spirited people.

  179. Johninnc, Most of those types when you ask them what the gospel is won’t even share it with you. I have literally asked, would you mind sharing the gospel with me? They refuse. I will ask three times, and even of pastors, one said I was trying to trick him. I told him I truly wanted to know what he thought the gospel was. He refused.

    I share the gospel each time when they refused, telling them, how we cannot refuse to share the good news with others if they ask, and even if they don’t.

    Another thing that many of those who see things this way do, is suggest that because you have problems, sicknesses, or trials in your life, that it is because you are 1) unsaved or 2) being punished by God.

    I understand chastening, but some seriously believe that it’s all from God (sickness, problems, trials, etc.). One cult (believe they were hyper-Calvinists) told me that God killed my husband because he didn’t have the Spirit, and that God struck my dad with a stroke (in his 80s) and my mom with cancer (in her 80s) because they didn’t have the Spirit. Literally these were three leaders in the ‘ministry’ who stalked me on Facebook and saw one of my parents journals from their last mission and found out the info on the stroke and cancer.

    Enemies of the gospel…

  180. Holly, yeah – I’ve seen/heard more than one person imply that anyone who isn’t happy, or even who is bored doesn’t have eternal life. This kind of mindset would require one to assess his level of happiness to corroborate whether or not he had eternal life. That is really a dead end.

    And, as you said, he didn’t make much sense. For example, “trying” to be a “real Christian” doesn’t really make sense, given that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  181. Jason

    The best thing for us all obviously, is to stay far away from videos that are not sound, teachers, cults, etc., marking and avoiding and then staying away.

    When I do research on them, I try to do it in small sections, staying in the Word more than ever, because twisting God’s Word is the job of the accuser of the brethren, and he’s quite good. Some is ever so slight, so it’s best to stay in the light and not get near the darkness. We expose it, but I sure try not to spend much time in it, it is exasperating, maddening, and depressing actually reading their lies. We will know them by their fruit, but I don’t want to be around the stench for long.

  182. Johninnc, sadly, the guy doesn’t make much sense. Grammatically in places it’s kind of hard to see what he’s trying to say. But I can catch the assumptions that you commented on, I also noticed he pats himself on the back for being constantly busy serving others. And it also seemed like he was bragging about being treated like a weird misfit (his words).

    While we know we are a peculiar people, and that we are set apart, and that in this world we will always have tribulation, the Bible doesn’t say all will see us as a weird misfit. Some will see the Light in us and be drawn to it as Jesus encouraged us to let our light so shine before men that they might see it and glorify our Father in heaven.

    Unfortunately, I think a lot of times people do their ‘religion’ in public, praying long prayers in restaurants and then mistreating waiters and waitresses. Or they think praising God is saying ‘praise God’ or ‘Hallelujah’ every time someone speaks. I’m not trying to make someone uncomfortable for using those words, just seeing people use them in situations where people are so sick of the ‘religious’ and it just drives them away further by their behavior. We can speak about God by following the example of the disciples in Scripture (or so I believe) and it was knowledge of the Word that they gave to these people. The Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I guess I rambled a bit, was just thinking of some of the situations I’ve been in with these types and the harm I’ve seen done.

  183. Following is a comment that was in response to an article about early retirement. I selected it for discussion, because there is subtle undermining of the gospel throughout the comment. I have made the quotes from the article in bold, to distinguish them from the commenter’s points:

    I’ve always enjoyed your Financial Samurai advice and applied it to my finances…but i’ll break down your problem with the all mighty dollar. 1) You will suffer an identity crisis for an unknown period— NO find yourself you forgot to do spiritual planning 2) You will be stuck in your head…not if you apply what you’ve been blessed with – i constantly busy with not enough hours in the day -serving others and sharing is the key…where did your wealth come from, it was a blessing. 3) People will treat you like a weird misfit. Yes that is great…being a real christian makes you different but until you do it you wont understand. 4) You’ll be disappointed that you aren’t much happier. Until you find something bigger and better than yourself JESUS CHRIST! what your missing the true meaning of life. 5) wonder no more whether this is all there is to life

    My comment: While inordinate focus on financial concerns is shortsighted, believing in Jesus as Savior does not guarantee that a person will never feel bored and will always feel happy and content.

    Serving others is a very good thing to do, and it can be joyful and rewarding. However, chiding someone who you think has neglected these matters when you have no idea, and contrasting that by publicly patting yourself on the back for your own good works is not a good thing to do.

    Being a “real Christian” has nothing to do with doing anything. It has to do with whether one has believed in Jesus as Savior. If so, that person is a “real Christian,” no matter what they do or don’t do. If not, that person is not a “real Christian,” no matter what they do or don’t do. People won’t be able to tell whether or not one is a “real Christian.” If they could, fruit inspection would be a good idea, rather than religion’s attempts to insinuate works into the gospel.

    And, to ASSUME that someone who has said they thought they would be happier when they retired has not “found Jesus” presumes that the commenter can tell whether or not another person has eternal life. This is self-righteousness, plain and simple.

  184. In the last eight months, I somehow got so distracted by the fake pastors that I got my mind off of NAR. Yet the NAR installed the fake pastors. The result makes it obvious,. Every church calls itself apostolic. The seed faith nonsense is everywhere. When they toke the spirits in Africa, discerning Christians call it voodoo. Contemplating the connection is horrifying.

  185. All these people: Hunt, Michaelson, Ankerberg, Lindsey, and others like Jan Markell, or any of those who have fairly well known blogs or shows do not call each other out. It has to get fairly bad for them to have an interest in doing so because they feel like they’re not as bad as some of the others. But evidently they seem to miss their own doctrinal issues.

  186. Regarding Dave Hunt and the other fella sitting silent
    They don’t challenge for fear of the confrontation or they believe similarly to the one spouting the heresy.

    The broad way is full of people believing they are saved but aren’t. As of late, it has really been bothering me that even though some believed at one point in nothing but Grace have been deceived and now have barred the way to heaven because of errant belief. I didn’t believe the Gospel until I came here.
    Thank GOD that all of the attempts, which were few, at sharing the LS heresy, while laboring under its delusional, were unsuccessful.

    Two more things
    A memory was jogged again. Funny how that works.
    While I attended a “cowboy” church a couple of years back the youth pastor recounted his salvation experience and his attempts as seeing people saved at a local biker rally. This biker rally was really a deal as it draws in people from all over the country. They, the church, set up their tent at the rally to spread the gospel. Not many were saved. I realize now because the news they preach is just another form of legalism.
    Those men and women that attend those rallies aren’t looking for reformation of their lives to save them. I think if the actual gospel would have been presented more people would have been saved. Maybe not but it saddens me to think that so many probably walked away more disillusioned with “Christianity”. This youth pastor’s salvation experience sounds like something from a fiction novel right down to hearing the literal bonds in his life breaking, like chains breaking. It is more in depth than that but I don’t want to get into it.
    Second thing
    In my Youtube recommendations was a video about the supposed errant belief of OSAS. The metrics for like and dislikes were turned off as well as the comments being disabled. I guess they probably couldn’t handle the criticism of actual believers debating the truth with them. I am grateful that Yankee’s and Cuccuzza’s videos allow comments to be on so that way when people come with their false beliefs try schooling the OSAS believers then they, those that believe the actual gospel, can share the truth with them.
    Anyway that is enough from me
    Hope the break does you some good, Johninnc
    As always you are all in my prayers.

  187. Fryingpan, very good point. Comments like that should be challenged by anyone interested in defending the gospel.

    It reminds me of the 700 Club. No LS comment is ever challenged.

  188. Re John Ankerberg . . . Let their words and deeds shed some light.

    From time to time I watch an old video of his program where he had Joanna Michaelson and Dave Hunt on as panel guests. I watch it because of research I do from time to time on occult influences in the church. I’ve talked about Dave Hunt extensively on other threads. He was NOT clear on the gospel in spite of him being one who could be quoted as believing in “Salvation by grace in faith alone by Christ alone.”

    I was re-watching this last week (it had been at least a year, probably more like 2 or 3 years) since the last time I watched it. At one point Joanna Michaelson starts spewing the typical LS tripe of, “After I became TRUE Christian and a TRUE believer” (or whatever the heck she actually said) it was obvious she believes in some form of front or back-loaded “gospel”. Not a peep out of Dave Hunt or John Ankerberg whereas about 98% of anyone who reads and posts here would have been like, “Now, wait a minute here. Are you suggesting we can only know we have eternal life by the quality of our faith or by the quality of our Christian walk?”

    The things they don’t say can sometimes be just as revealing as the things they DO say . . .

  189. I didn’t realize that my friend’s quote originated from a first century fake pastor called Tertullian. I thought it was just stuff that goes around.

  190. William, I am not personally familiar with John Ankerberg. I am generally highly-supsicious of prominent TV preachers, because grace doesn’t seem to draw a broad audience. I found two comments in our history that mention him, and not in a positive way. Please see below:

  191. A friend posted: “you cannot parcel out freedom in pieces because freedom is all or nothing”

    I could say the exact same about grace. LS loves to chop in bits and pieces, and makes pieces of you in the process.

  192. John, What is your opinion on John Ankerberg? Is he Free Grace and is he sound in his doctrine?

  193. Jason, the church that was the subject of the comment that you referenced had a lot of bad influences.

    Given that, it seems highly likely that many of the regular attendees would be unclear as to how to have eternal life.

  194. Joel Comiskey was mentioned in this comment:

    I had the misfortune of finding him on Twitter. He even briefly followed me if I recall. One of my followers likes my anti-lordship tweets but also follows Comiskey. He raises the following red flags. He has 32 books. He leads cell churches.

    I once was in a Bible study that felt like a cell group. It didn’t feel comfortable. They ask too many personal questions. They disciple you. They mislead you. They rule you. I’m introverted, and introverts don’t belong. I like being in a small group where I can talk about my life because I can, not because I have to. Comiskey wants to be one of these rulers. I don’t know how to describe it. MacArthur follows the same model. The WCG exit support site condemns it as dialectical materialism. Well, good for them. It’s fake friendliness. I get a whiff of it and run. Others get sucked in and abused. I hear all sorts of horror stories. My job coach turned dietary tormentor felt similar.

    On Twitter, most of Comiskey’s stuff was consistent with grace. But he retweeted commenter1. Commenter1 talked about following jesus and added that it is the narrow way that leads to life. Commenter1 and the above mentioned friend follow each other. I straightened commenter1 out and she thanked me for it. She came from a background that denied OSAS. She said she preferred the truth.

    Commenter2 followed me shortly after. I can’t recall what tweets of mine she had liked. She has a foreign surname. When I check, her timeline is filled with AAC, punctuated with Comiskey. She had also retweeted commenter1’s awful comment. The poor soul does not discern that Comiskey is an American fake pastor. She too probably appreciated my correction.

    Meanwhile, one of the Truth Channel’s prophecies failed, on Feb 23, 2019. He changed the prophecy to fit the news. Don’t you hate that. He calls out fake pastors and is fake himself.

    I have observed people saying, “network receive sense in jesus name”, on livestreams. It has zero effect. The network remains useless. Even when they find grace, they can’t break the habit of looking for that daily miracle.

  195. John, they misunderstand who God convicts (the whole world) and they don’t correctly understand what the meaning of repentance is.

    The funny yet sad part is they actually believe they have turned from their sin, and that their turning from sin proves they’re saved. If there was such a thing as good luck, they would need it. They only need to ask their spouse, or sibling, or parent if they’ve succeeded at turning from sin. Although you know that they have a sliding scale, even though they cannot identify what it is because of course none of what they say is Biblical truth.

  196. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today:

    Perhaps GOD will convict their hearts and cause them to turn from their sin just as he has done for all those that are saved by grace.

    My comment: This makes it sound like God causes all Christians to automatically turn from all of their sins in this lifetime. The Bible does not teach this, and the implication is that if someone is still doing anything sinful, or even having any sinful thoughts, that it means they haven’t received eternal life. This false message leads to fruit inspection and causes people to focus on themselves, compare themselves to others, and to not focus on Christ and His righteousness.

  197. Lordship Salvation: More Owuorism

    My Kenyan friend reports regularly on the insane ramblings of the…(edited by administrator). This time, the baal prophet makes a list of sins that will keep the church from being raptured. It’s the usual virtue signaling stuff, but this item takes the ugali:

    “rejecting repentance which is the blood of Jesus”

    The blood of Jesus is physical blood that was literally poured for us when His side was pierced. It cannot be redefined as repenting of sin. Simple faith makes it effective. This is the same thief that is making himself lord. It’s an utter mockery.

  198. Jason, I imagine that one really “burns up” the LS crowd.

  199. Ralph Yankee Arnold has a recent sermon called “Why the Cross Is About Fire Insurance”. And I am like, that is the only motive consistent with grace. It teaches us, without threatening us, to appreciate everything that God has done for us. I shared with a Kenyan friend, and his response: “grace is everything. We are nothing without it”. Heaven forever.

  200. Jason, I am happy that you were able to share “The Gospel” booklet, and I am hopeful that it will be a blessing to those who read it.

  201. The black hebrew israelites have been in the news lately, because of a weird incident involving Catholic boys in MAGA hats and an obnoxious Native American. Kevin’s Corner covered it.

    At a restaurant, I recently shared a Ron Shea booklet with an African-American woman who comes from a black hebrew israelite background. She did not seem racist. She had stopped going to church. Another worker was blessed by the booklet and asked for three more to share with friends.

    Dr Mumbi is a black hebrew israelite from Kenya. These people are lordship, Galatianistic, and influenced by hebrew roots and sacred name. Their racist side is rearing its ugly head. I don’t follow these movements to get entangled but to get informed and sound the alarm.

    Some of Mumbi’s followers are interested in her politics and not the hebrew roots aspect. But even her politics is extremely toxic. She supports the black supremacist EFF in South Africa and trashes reasonable leaders such as Bobi Wine. She gives misleading information about several countries. On the social networks, I met a Ugandan friend who agrees with me.

    There is not much material on the web that exposes Mumbi. I was drafting a much longer post, but I’m afraid I would say too much.

  202. Jason, very good comment.

    Just some pablum about wanting to be a Christian without an explanation of who Jesus is and how one receives eternal life really comes up short.

  203. When they don’t get to the point

    We are used to the case where the evangelist does not keep it real. They imply works in some way. Sometimes, they don’t get to the point. They say that there is a way but don’t show it.

    The video “A Devout Palestinian Christian Becomes a Muslim” talks about a man’s search of the real God. He tells the seeker to ask God for the truth, without simply giving it. He promises that God will give the truth to the unbeliever who seeks it, but he never tells the unbeliever to believe.

    In his testimony, he took 40 minutes to pray, “I want to be a Christian”, and then felt release. It was an emotion oriented testimony.

    This person does not use lordship. He does not say to repent of sin. He does not use guilt or imply works. He does not show that grace is the way, either. He essentially directs the seeking unbeliever to pray for the gospel instead of simply giving it. And I wonder, what use is that?

    He never went over the death, burial and resurrection or explained who Jesus is.

    Exhortations are seek God are as common as calls to repent of sin, and they are just as far from the truth. It is sad to see.

  204. Indeed. One of Satan’s main ways he keeps the lost man lost (other than convincing us believers to keep our mouths shut) is by giving them a false hope of Heaven. By doing that, he can effectively make them so blind that they cannot believe the words of Scripture when it refers to salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  205. John 6:47, it is very sad and part of our mission is to help people understand the difference between the gospel and its seemingly endless false substitutes.

  206. Great article! It’s really sad to see all the professing “Christians” have a false hope of going to Heaven. They will be in for the worst and biggest surprise of their lives when they stand before the Great White Throne Judgment (that is, if they never trusted Christ ALONE as their Savior). 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 rings true every single day within what I call “Selfianity” today (Selfianity because they’re putting all the focus on themselves and not Jesus Christ).

  207. Jason, I am hopeful that people who read your comments and Facebook content who know Jesus as Savior will grow in grace and that those who do not will understand the difference between false performance-based religion and the truth of eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  208. A Youtuber named The Other Side puts up a video called “The Fraudulent Pastor and his Members”. Three members visit pastor. He prays over them like a pentecostal, laying hands and pushing them over like TB Joshua. The first two come to pay their tithes. He tells the second one to take his money and leave, calling it ritualistic money. A funny thing to say, since it is all ritual with these pastors. Woke believers believe fake pastors are mixing folk religion with Christianity.

    Debt stricken, the third member comes to beg for help. Pastor is disappointed that his big bag is not full of naira. Pastor says something in Igbo, making clear the country of the comedy’s setting.

    Enough manipulation already, they must be thinking. Next day, the church riots, and pastor wakes up in the hospital. He might have to go to England to get good care.

    Other thoughts occur to me, and I make this comment: “Fake pastors love guilt. Salvation comes by grace through faith. The congregation learns that and leaves in a fit. They don’t go to church, like I don’t, unless they find Daddy Freeze. Ralph Yankee Arnold is too far for me on this side. Then Omoyele has a rally, and they greet him in the name of Jesus. Fake pastors for prison”

    Lordship could be lurking behind the most harmless words, but not this time. I check again, and he gets my references and agrees. I am not sure I recommend Daddy Freeze, but I am slightly satirical. There is some political humor, too.

    As more believers on the other side friend me on Facebook and like my free grace comments, I am encouraged. Grace resonates with them. I wonder how much is due to seeds I have been planting, but God gives the increase. The youth are rising to free grace.

  209. William, my prayers for your son also.

  210. JohnWI, Jack’s personal website is no longer active, which is why I haven’t been able to use the outbound email function.

    Below is a truncated version of Jack’s testimony:

  211. Johninnc, I tried using the link to Jack Weaver’s website and it is no longer working. Is there another place to go to to get the testimony that Jack had on his website?

  212. Jason, those who believe that good works are necessary to receive eternal life see that message in virtually any and everything.

  213. This use of hyperbole to unmask the rich ruler’s trusting in his works is an example of satire.

  214. Following is an excerpt from a comment I found yesterday:

    Other than the one rich young ruler, He never demanded that the rich give up all their money to the poor; (He only said that because He knew that is where the young man’s heart was.).

    My comment: Jesus never demanded that the rich young ruler give all his money to the poor in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. Jesus did know the young man’s heart, and knew the young man was trying to earn eternal life by keeping the law perfectly.

    Of course, Jesus knew that the young man had not – and could not – keep the commandments. Therefore, the young man needed another approach to receiving eternal life. He was trusting in his self-righteousness, which Jesus unmasked. The young man needed to trust in the righteousness of Christ for eternal life.

  215. William, thanks for letting us know. I am sure that many of our readers and commenters are praying for all of you as well.

  216. John, Thank you. It’s been very tough, especially for our son. He broke down and cried for a long time today.

  217. William, still praying for you and your family.

  218. John, and all brothers and sisters in the faith,

    Please continue to pray for us. Things have been getting very overwhelming for us and our son in regards to the lawsuit that was filed against us.

    Please pray for us. Thank you,

  219. Stephen Mwangi posted on his wall: “The gospel of Jesus Christ is too simple to be true, unless you add to it!” (all caps)

    More free grace comments followed. One of them said that pastors assigned themselves the job of adding. We know them too well.

    More friends are wishing I could visit, but I would need passport, visa and airfare. And my family at home would worry about me.

  220. PhilR, Praying for your home repair situation. Construction, especially labor is very expensive nowadays. My house had major construction done 8 years ago, and it cost a fortune. Contractors can be real pirates.

  221. Jason, I am glad that at least one person at that site understood your reference and agreed with your point.

  222. From Dr Njakiri Damages: “Nnamdi Kanu falls in love with Bishop Oyedepo(from episode 360). For doubling down and supporting his conspiracy theory that Buhari in Aso Rock is a body double, Biafran leader, Nnamdi Kanu forgot all that he had said about Yoruba pastors to embrace Bishop Oyedepo”

    I retweeted with comment: “Where I have fellowship, fake pastors are marked and avoided, not quoted whenever convenient. Spurgeon, anyone? Count me out”

    A conservative Latina who follows me liked the comment. Thank God, some people get it. The references are unfamiliar to most of us, but we know fake pastors by their fruit: lordship salvation.

  223. Phil, I have prayed for you and your wife in both of these things.

  224. Thanks William, just need prayer for some home repair problems that could get expensive. My wife and I also may have to consider moving into a retirement housing in the future.

  225. Holly, that’s right – no one would actually “find it” under their false gospel. God would reveal it to a select few.

  226. William, praying for the Lord’s help with your family. You know God’s mercy didn’t depart from Solomon either, yet some still don’t feel he persevered until the end. (Their false idea of attaining salvation).

    Strange that they think they would somehow do a better job…

  227. Johninnc, the comment you referenced on Matthew 7 made me shake my head.
    One we’ve heard so often.

    So let’s see, they believe that their FAITH is the GIFT from God.

    He adds that anyone who believes differently is FOLLOWING a false idea and gospel.

    He said, ‘Few will find it’…

    How can one ‘follow’ or how can one ‘find’ if faith is the gift? Why do they bother even preaching about this junk if one is pre-chosen to follow the right way and most are pre-chosen to follow the wrong way.

    It wouldn’t be few who would ‘find it’ but few who were pre-selected to find it.

  228. PhilR, Thank you, brother. If there is anything that I can pray for, please don’t hesitate to post your prayer request here. We as believers must not let Satan and his many hordes hinder us in our prayer life praying for each other. God is on the throne and prayer changes things.

  229. William, my prayers also for your situation.

  230. John, Yes, we are not kept eternally secure because of so called “unfailing faith” on our part which will no doubt be always susceptible to faltering and failure because we are still human, but we are kept eternally secure because we have BELIEVED on an UNFAILING SAVIOR who does not go back on His Word and promise – John 5:24, John 10:28-29, Ephesians 1:13, Romans 8:38-39, 2 Timothy 2:13.

  231. William, you are correct that no one has ever had to remain faithful to receive or keep eternal life, nor to prove that they have received eternal life.

  232. John, Regarding your earlier post:

    “My comment: The original commenter has put himself in the position of judging the eternal destiny of another person. The original commenter’s false gospel, then, is tainted by one of the following errors:

    1. It is impossible for a “true believer” to commit suicide; or
    2. Suicide is not covered by Christ’s atonement; or
    3. A believer has to avoid suicide to keep from losing eternal life.

    None of these are true.”
    My comment – Amen to your comment.

    For the benefit of those reading our comments who are unsure of their salvation and the very nature of eternal life, Scripture is clear that salvation CANNOT BE LOST no matter what happens to a saved Christian down the line. This is verified by John 3:16, John 5:24, John 10:28-29, Ephesians 1:13, Romans 8:38-39, 2 Timothy 2:13.

    The clear examples of Saul and Samson who both committed SUICIDE verify that they are still God’s children. God stripped away Saul’s KINGSHIP and withheld MERCY from Saul because of his disobedience, but God did not take away Saul’s salvation. Samson is listed as a Godly man of faith in Hebrews 11:32 despite his SUICIDE. Samson would not be listed there if he “lost his salvation.”

    False teachers will no doubt pervert and eisegete 1 Samuel 16:14 and 2 Samuel 7:15 in an attempt to prove that Saul lost his salvation.

    We now have false teachers like Kevin Thompson, Gene Kim, and Robert Breaker who will no doubt use the below verses in support of their false teaching that eternal security/once saved always saved is only in effect in the Church Age by teaching Free Grace, but not in the Old Testament, Tribulation, or Millennial dispensations. They are in essence teaching Lordship Salvation in the Old Testament, Tribulation, and Millennial time periods as Thompson, Kim, and Breaker insist that one must “persevere to the end” to maintain their salvation from slipping away.

    1 Samuel 16:14 – But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    2 Samuel 7:15 – But my MERCY shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

    Old Testament saints were not sealed with the Holy Spirit, which leads many false teachers to believe salvation can be lost whether it be by willful sin or by SUICIDE, but a careful reading of 2 Samuel 7:15 in the KJV indicates that the issue was MERCY, but not salvation. God asserted to David through Nathan the prophet that Solomon would be CHASTISED if he did wrong once he took over David’s throne, but that His MERCY would never depart from him as it departed from Saul.

    Scripture is clear that Old Testament saints who sinned grievously would be chastised with premature PHYSICAL DEATH, but they are still God’s children – Ezekiel 18:24-32, Ezekiel 33:12-13. Ezekiel 18:24-32 and Ezekiel 33:12-13 is in agreement with what is taught in the New Testament regarding PHYSICAL DEATH for willfully sinning believers in the New Testament/Church Age dispensation – 1 John 5:16-17.

    Clear examples are Ananias and Sapphira – Acts 5:1-11, the man who was sleeping with his stepmother – 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, and some of the Corinthian believers who were eating selfishly and getting drunk at the Lord’s Supper – 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, 1 Corinthians 11:29-30. In each case, the consequence was LOSS OF PHYSICAL LIFE or the recommendation of it, but their salvation remains intact and untouched. This is further confirmed by 1 Corinthians 3:15.

    Going back to Saul, we read in 1 Samuel 28:18-19 that the spirit of Samuel clearly indicated to Saul that because of his blatant disobedience to God and his doing an incomplete job of wiping out the Amalekites, that Saul along with his son’s PHYSICAL LIVES will be terminated the very next day AND THAT SAUL AND HIS SONS WILL BE WITH SAMUEL. Being in the same place with Samuel is obviously ABRAHAM’S BOSOM – Luke 16:22.

    1 Samuel 28:18-19 KJV – 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.

    19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: AND TOMORROW SHALT THOU AND THY SONS BE WITH ME: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

    Saul took his own life and his 3 sons were killed by the Philistines – 1 Samuel 31 and again the issue was the TERMINATION OF PHYSICAL LIFE, NOT the loss of salvation.

    In conclusion, these clear Scriptural passages debunk Kevin Thompson’s, Gene Kim’s and Robert Breaker’s false teaching that salvation can be lost if a saved believer commits suicide or commits grievous sin in the Old Testament, Tribulation, and Millennial dispensations. Eternal security/OSAS is in effect in all dispensations.

    Hebrews 13:8 – Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

  233. John, Thank you.

  234. William, I have prayed for strength and wisdom for each of you, and that you would receive a just outcome.

  235. John and all brothers and sisters in the faith,

    Me, my wife, and son really need your prayer support. Our ex-daughter in law is bringing false accusations against us and has brought a lawsuit against us. Our ex-daughter in law is basically a blatant liar and con artist who conned our naive son into marrying her so that she could use him to pay for her huge debts. They are legally divorced now.

    We are definitely up against an evil, spiteful, and vindictive person who is after our assets and has deliberately chosen this Christmas season to sue us. I am also certain that she is being used by Satan to attack us as we recently led our grandmother to faith in Christ and we also made a financial donation to a Christian organization.

    We are hiring an attorney tomorrow morning to represent us and please pray that the Lord give us wisdom in handling this situation. We have already been treated unfairly the last time we were in court where a biased judge sided with her despite her lies and putting up a convincing facade.

    The Bible says that God is a just and fair judge and a God of retribution. Please pray that God will do what He knows best. Our ex-daughter in law has been bringing one false accusation after another against our son and now she is throwing me and my wife into the picture.

    Please pray for us. We greatly appreciate your prayers. Thank you.

  236. Following is a comment related to a story about a Detroit meteorologist who committed suicide:


    My comment: The original commenter has put himself in the position of judging the eternal destiny of another person. The original commenter’s false gospel, then, is tainted by one of the following errors:

    1. It is impossible for a “true believer” to commit suicide; or
    2. Suicide is not covered by Christ’s atonement; or
    3. A believer has to avoid suicide to keep from losing eternal life.

    None of these are true.

  237. Jason, the preachy, virtue signaling stuff reflects a person’s anger and insecurity.

  238. Lordship Salvation: not keeping it real. They are failing all over the place with coming forward, concerted effort to stop sinning, sorrow (emotionalism), promises, unavailable faith, evanescent grace, and seeing sin everywhere.

    I once saw a preachy comment that said: “you dress formally for the governor but dress casual for God”, intimidating that God is furious and dishing out guilt. But the cross is the end of it. The gospel is free in both senses of the word: without cost and liberating. They just don’t get it.

  239. Following is one I came across today:

    Well, not everyone who calls Christ Lord are entering heaven, but ONLY the ones who DO the will of the Father who is in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23). Jesus hammered this point home repeatedly, that saying He’s God means nothing if we don’t submit to His will and authority (true belief and saving faith).

    He is the ONLY one who grants grace and it is ONLY by His grace that we are saved (even our faith is a gift from the Father (Ephesians 2). Anyone who believes otherwise is following a false idea and gospel. The way to Heaven is narrow and the road is hard (Matthew 7:13). Few will find it … (and Jesus was referring to those who claimed to be right with God when He said ‘many’ are on the wide road that leads to destruction.

    Don’t take this lightly.

    My comments: Doing the will of the Father in terms of receiving the free gift of eternal life, means believing in Jesus as Savior.

    John 6:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Submitting to Christ’s will and authority (obedience) is not a requirement for receiving, nor retaining eternal life. If it were, what standards would one use for determining how much obedience was required? And, how could anyone have assurance that they had been obedient enough to gain or keep eternal life? The Bible teaches that we receive eternal life when we believe in Jesus as Savior. And, that once received, eternal life can never be lost or forfeited.

    John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    The gate is straight and the way is narrow that leads to eternal life. It is not hard.

    Matthew 7:14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Jesus is the straight gate and the narrow way.

    John 10:9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Eternal life is received by those who have believed in Jesus alone for eternal life, apart from their works or obedience.

    The wide road that leads to destruction includes the false gospel of faith in Christ plus works for eternal life that the original commenter is teaching.

    Finally, faith is not part of the gift of God. Whether or not one has believed in Jesus as Savior is the sole determinant in whether a person spends eternity in heaven or in hell. If faith were the gift of God, and not everyone has it, then God would be purposely relegating those from whom he withheld faith to an eternity in hell. And, it would follow that every decision a person made was orchestrated by God, making God, not man, responsible for all of man’s actions. This is not what the Bible teaches.

    The Bible teaches that eternal life, not faith, is the gift of God.

    Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  240. I just picked up this “gem” from an article by Matt Moore in the Christian Post:

    Striving to turn away from sin is not an optional aspect of faith; it is inseperable from saving faith.

    My comment: Striving is a work. We do not receive eternal life by works, but by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  241. “It is well with my soul”. My appreciation for the grace in that hymn is renewed. When I search for covers, half the results are Hillsong and Bethel, yikes. I have better luck with foreign language versions. And I find the East African tune catchier. Salama rohoni is my guilt free philosophy.

  242. Thanks for your encouragement, Holly.

    3 months ago, I left this comment on Youtube: “I liked your answer. Said appropriately. My feelings exactly, and I don’t like TB Joshua at all. I agree, Jesus is sufficient. There are very few preachers that I like, and I have some of them on my playlist”. Adeola had said that Jesus is sufficient and has never disappointed anyone, and that she was not recommending any prophet or preacher. And two weeks ago, I received the notification that she loved the comment.

    In the last two months, two other comments of mine received similar responses from their videos’ authors.

  243. May your efforts will Ron’s tract and your words be multiplied Jason.

  244. Jason, very interesting!

  245. Here is something interesting. Brett Kavanaugh tweets a funny reflection on what LGBT and normal people think are God’s greatest gifts. My reply is one word: Grace. Recently, I pinned a tweet linking Ron Shea’s tract in two languages and a resource page of my own. And just today, Brett liked the reply.

  246. Kate – I am in awe sometimes of the people who claim they believe salvation is not of works, and turn right around and declare someone needs to turn from sin, or stop this, or promise that, etc. It’s so baffling that they don’t hear the conflict in their own words.

    But people are so used to parroting the words of ‘scholars’ and ‘princes of preachers’ and ‘famed authors’ that they don’t really even grasp the fact that they aren’t even loving, knowing, studying, storing up His Word in their heart. It sickens me for them, for those they deceive and for all who will be lost because of that deceit.

  247. Kate, I think you’re right. Religions (which are false and man-made) are all works-based.

  248. Katmazdobelieve

    As I rest more and more in His grace I see the belief systems in two categories; Grace or Works. It seems to me that all other systems, besides Christianity (and I mean true Christianity as being saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone), are works-based in some way or another.
    Maybe that is the cynical side of me.
    Thanks for reading,

  249. Christina Grimmie sings “In Christ Alone” beautifully. The song is clear on the gospel. Unfortunately, her church’s website lords it up as usual with the repent of sins monkey business. Fellowship Alliance Chapel is in the same town as the Baptist church that I attended for 8 weeks and left because of romans road heresy. Christina was also tragically murdered two years ago. Her song was shared by a friend who is very busy but recently loved a Youtube comment in which I had shared the gospel.

    I wonder if most of these disappointing statements of faith were tampered with in the past ten years. It was much more common in the 80’s to hear a clear gospel preached.

  250. Jason, we see people of all political stripes trying to co-opt the Bible for political gain.

    Unfortunately, LS is very common among professing Christendom across by the political spectrum.

  251. Last weekend I was at the #walkaway rally in DC. At the end of the demonstration, I interviewed with one of the leaders, never got the name. He recorded with a device. His T shirt displayed his love for the gospel. My T shirt showed off some of my weird side. So I shared that I was saved by grace through faith. He agreed. But he had to add repentance. He obviously has sin as an object. His shirt did not tell me he is LS but words betray him.

    I used the movement as a reference point. Brandon Straka says it is about unconditional acceptance. If we who are evil know how to accept one another from various walks of life, how much more does God accept us through faith? But he was no ears. LS is fake tolerance far worse than the left.

    I have yet to stumble across the recording on Youtube.

  252. Jason, I saw that story. I think it was a non-RCC Church, but the narrative to the story was similar to the RCC miracle-oriented stories that punctuate the news sites.

  253. The Drudge Report tweeted a fake news story about a picture of Jesus that miraculously survived a church fire. I thought Drudge only did politics. I don’t need miracle oriented, RCC pandering fake news. What I need is grace.

  254. Jason, I am very pleased to hear that.

  255. It looks like my friend and I are back on the same page. Your prayers worked. Thank God.

  256. Jason, I agree with you that a clear Gospel presentation is essential.

  257. I suppose a leprosy victim has no chance, either.

    When I talked to my friend, he was unclear. He said that works are necessary “in salvation”, with stress on the preposition. It seemed that he was trying in his own way to say that we should do good works, but he was not able to achieve clarity. I told him that his friends would be confused and not blessed. He had told me he avoids church like the plague. I told him that his friends will inevitably interpret his words through the LS grid, and their confused minds will process the same message they heard in the pastoral swampland. The conversation trailed off here.

    An evangelist wins on the clear gospel. It has been my recent experience. But most preachers prefer mush. Sometimes a bad lawyer is clearer than a good pastor. It is a sad day when it happens. Galatians 3:1 beats LS any time. Who has bewitched them? As usual, it is the puppets in the pulpit. The jungle is full of them.

  258. Jason, sorry about your friend, I can certainly relate. One woman did the same. We even talked, she agreed repentance did not mean turning from sin. But on another post on her wall she contradicted what she previously said. Some just will agree with what people say to shut them up and/or they are like those who ‘sneak in’ (Gal 2:4-5). What is a ‘genuine turn from sin’ anyways?

    As for the one that said artificial hair could make someone miss heaven? How ludicrous… I suppose a cancer patient doesn’t have a chance in this person’s world.

    Praise the Lord that we know these things, these judgments, are rules and regulations of men and not what we must do to be saved 🙂

  259. Chas, you are right, the protestants are moving closer and closer to Roman Catholicism. A police show my husband had on, had a policeman appealing to a criminal that maybe God was giving him one last chance to repent. I had to kind of smh, knowing at that moment, this is not a colloquialism in the world today, yet, because of street preachers and signs, the world understands the world to mean ‘turn from sin’. And we know until we die we have a chance to repent. But I found it interesting a Roman Catholic on T.V. was using the word and Hollywood was o.k. with it.

  260. Jason, it is terribly sad when someone with whom we have shared the gospel and who appears to understand and believe it then undermines the gospel with LS teaching.

    I have prayed for your friend.

  261. When friends let you down.

    I had shared the gospel with a friend. My sharing included Shea, Bowen, Holly, and this site. He agreed and gave me likes. He said I was a blessing to others. He even said I was a preacher. I politely disagreed.

    And he posts this on his wall:

    “You claim to be born again????
    how many needy people have you helped?
    If none then you are a liar go back to the cross?”

    I replied: “I have shared the gospel and blessed you. Then I read this? I am disappointed. Helping the needy and a genuine turn from sin are works”, and gave the sad face.

    Another post of his defined repentance as a “genuine turn from sin”.

    Another from awhile back said that makeup and artificial hairs could cause you to “miss heaven”.

    I am saddened to hear about things like artificial hairs and the bleaching of the skin, but to throw LS into the mess is the worst insult ever. Repenting of real and imagined sin continues to cause corruption to the truth all around the world, which a Trump in every country cannot fix.

  262. Jason, mormonism is false doctrine that incorporates works for eternal life, among other errors. That was a very interesting quote you provided from the commenter, who left out the word “believe.” That’s a very significant omission.

  263. I saw this on the comment section of the song “We All Bleed the Same” (healing America version) by Alex Boyé:

    “We all bleed the same and sin the same so we all. Need repentance”

    The comment was ok until the last word. It is so LS. All who read it interpret it through a LS grid because it is so pervasive.

    Another commenter replied:

    “Finally someone who said the Truth! Thank you for speaking it. Yes God loved us so much that He sent his only Son that we might not perish but have an everlasting life. Amen”

    She missed the contradiction and misquoted John 3:16. Worst of all, she left out “believe”.

    I replied to the first commenter:

    “Wrong. We need grace alone. Lordship is more hate”

    I have experienced it.

    The artist is a Mormon by affiliation and immigrated into Utah. That is unfortunate. Mormonism is more LS.

  264. Jason, it is pathetic. People virtue signal on any number of dimensions.

  265. A certain video features some sort of minister questioning a caller because she voted for a certain candidate six years ago. That candidate supported abortion. The host told the caller that (1) she is not a Christian, and (2) he brought up race (theirs) and said that most of “them” hate God. The caller stated clearly that she does not support abortion. The gospel was never discussed.

    The fruit inspection is pathetic.

  266. Chas, it can be very draining to try to reason with religious people about the truth of the gospel and the sufficiency of Christ.

    All we can do is show them the truth from scripture. I have prayed for your recovery from surgery.

  267. It’s evident that so-called “protestant evangelicalism” is sounding more and more like Roman Catholicism in these end times.

    I know I’ve brought up RCC-ism a couple of times in this thread already, but the subject has weighed heavily on me over the last few months. I got a fresh look at the RCC side a few weeks ago as I was drawn into a lengthy exchange with a die-hard Catholic about RCC “authority” and a few of their other dubious claims. I attempted to steer the discussion to a biblically-oriented direction after quoting from the Council of Trent where the RCC dis-fellowships anyone who believes the true gospel of salvation by faith alone, apart from works. (The Council didn’t call what they were condemning “the true gospel” of course, but that is in essence what they referred to as a ground for anathematizing anyone who believes it.) My point in the discussion was that centuries ago the RCC officially separated themselves from the only gospel that saves, thereby pitting themselves against the Truth. Therefore their “gospel” of faith-plus-works is false by their own unwitting admission. That point was missed entirely by the Catholic responding to me. He insisted that the anathema decree “only applies to Catholics” (LOL!), and therefore doesn’t constitute a claim by RCC-sm to be “the only true church”. Vatican II came up, with the person quoting various high-sounding statements from that document in which the RCC tries to sound like it has abandoned any claim to be “the TRUE church” while at the same time using more subtle wording to restate that very claim in effect. Naturally, Matthew 16:18 came up, where any appeal to Scripture and Greek grammar was met with “That’s just your interpretation.” I’m afraid I didn’t do as well as I might have, especially since–in the diversion about RCC decrees and claims–I neglected to call his bluff about Romans 3., which he insisted is only about Paul telling the Roman church they didn’t need to keep the Jewish “ceremonial” law. (Yeah! I know!) I pointed out how he seemed to have Romans confused with Galatians, but he just doubled-down on his nonsense with “that’s just your interpretation” whenever Scripture contradicted his interpretation (which was a lot). There was the usual array of straw men arguments from his side. There were insinuations that I think I’m infallible, “have a lot of nerve”, was being “sanctimonious to the end”, etc. There was a lot of that, which I pretty much ignored in an effort to keep to the biblical points I was trying to make. It was the typical treatment of a believer by a legalist, iow, nothing unusual. But for some reason the whole thing left me very drained, more than it usually does when I’m coming off one of these RCC “encounters”. (Swidt?) I wasn’t at my best (as if my “best” was good enough, which it isn’t). What with the run-up to the shoulder surgery I underwent a couple weeks ago, and with the consequent “medications” involved I still haven’t recovered entirely from that discussion. My consolation is to pray for that individual (and those who “liked” his posts) whenever the exchange comes to mind. (Am I venting again? I guess so, this is the only place I feel comfortable “baring my soul” etc. etc.)

    Anyway, all that to say; the legalistic unbelief at the heart of LS, held by the RCC and so many other “Christian” systems of thought (we used to call them “denominations”) is rearing its ugly head with greater and greater clarity and unity between RCC-ism and the supposedly non-RCC camp. The false End Times Church is coalescing right before our eyes. It can’t be very long now.

    “Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”

  268. John WI, it does sound like Paul Washer to me also. Sadly, a lot of them parrot each other and so they begin to sing the same old song.

  269. Jason, that is very encouraging.

  270. Last Sunday, I made an interesting friend on Facebook. He was from a foreign country. He agreed with my misgivings about a certain false prophet. At some point, I brought up Expreacherman. I said that I rarely witnessed as much consistency with John 3:16 as I have seen here. He gave me a big thumbs up.

    It encourages me when I see grace resonating around the world.

  271. It sounds just like something Paul Washer would spew out.

  272. Pointless, hopeless and false.

    They are like dogs chasing their tails until they’re exhausted and then get up and try harder the next time. And teaching all their blind followers to do the same. It’s really very sad.

    This guy is a Pastor of yet again another ‘Grace’ IFB church. (That’s why he mentioned those other IFB churches that get it wrong according to him).

    He also claims to have gone to Florida Bible, have no idea if it’s true, but if so, obviously he was resistant to the truth.

  273. Hobbs, yes, it is pointless.

    The false gospels are often focused on a person’s motive for believing, which is not biblical.

    In this case, the false gospel is circular – believe in Jesus to change your life. If your life doesn’t change, you didn’t “sincerely believe.” So, if one wants to maintain the ruse, he has to engage in all sorts of religiousity.

  274. And so they neatly rule out any possiblity of anyone having any assurance.

    All a bit pointless really isn’t it?

    The institutional church steps in and says ‘follow our rules, we’ll save you’.

    Yeah, just the cults.

  275. Holly, this person is basically redefining faith as a desire to be freed from the practice of sin.

    The problem with this as the means of receiving eternal life is that it is based on man doing something to commend himself to God. In other words, it is dependent on someone who lacks eternal life deciding that he can make himself acceptable to God by desiring to give up his sins. If the desire to give up one’s sins is required to receive eternal life, than that is merely the desire to offer God filthy rags in exchange for eternal life. That would reduce eternal life to a trade, rather than it being a gift.

    The sole basis for assurance under this false gospel would be constant soul searching to make sure one was sincere when he decided that he wanted to stop sinning. This puts it all back on the subjectivity of a person’s feelings versus the objectivity of believing the gospel.

  276. I know the preference here is for shorter posts. But this is what I got in my email today from one wanting my thoughts on this false statement. Maybe could have taken a little more time, but I answered right then.


    The preaching of * #REPENTANCE * is the historical position of the church. The denial of repentance and changing it into a new doctrine is the trend of the current church and is rampant among IFB churches. We claim to stand on the old truths, but I defy any IFB preacher to point out a gospel preacher of old who preached these things:
    1. You don’t need to turn from sin.
    2. Repentance is just a change of mind about how to go to heaven.
    3. If you confuse salvation and service people will think they must serve God.
    4. Salvation is all about going to heaven, serving God comes later.
    5. Preaching that men must turn from sin is a lie of the devil.
    6. The gospel of John doesn’t use the word #Repent so repentance is not to be preached to the lost.
    7. We teach “faith alone” because preaching repentance as turning from sin is adding to the gospel.
    The truth is that not only is repentance from sin the only gospel ever preached, but we can say these things about it:
    1. You must turn or burn.
    2. Repentance is a change of mind and heart about your sin, and the authority of Christ. You cannot just recognize you are a sinner, you must come to Jesus to be freed from the slavery of sin.
    3. People who know themselves to be sinners by the light of the Holy Spirit come to Jesus for a new life of service. They DO NOT serve to be saved, but they do not come to continue in sin either.
    4. Salvation is about you and God being reconciled after being His enemy. Therefore, it is the desire to serve Him now by His power AND the desire to go to heaven, having been delivered from sin’s power and penalty.
    5. Preaching that men must turn from sin is the only message of the Bible. They need NOT clean their life up to come to God. They must come to Jesus for healing from a rebellious heart, whereby He gives them a new heart and writes His laws upon it.
    6. The gospel of John is written to prove the deity of Christ. If you do not submit to the deity and Lordship of Jesus, you DO NOT BELIEVE He is God in your heart, only in your head, just like the devils of James chapter 2. To believe He is truly God is to submit your life to Him. Nothing could be more clear than that you live by the authority of your chosen God. Either you live after the devil, or Jesus. You cannot serve two masters. So if John proves Jesus is the true God, you must submit or die.
    7. A faith in Jesus that does not include a hearty repentance from sin does not originate from the Holy Spirit, but from the flesh which will do anything to stay in power. It will even profess Jesus and go soul winning, so long as it does not have to die. This is the place where real salvation meets the real needs of men. They need Jesus to rule them and empower them. Therefore, true salvation delivers men from the power of self, and places Jesus on the throne in the heart where He belongs. Nothing short of this answers the need of the human condition. Men need saving from themselves and their rebellious hearts. Hell is only the just consequence of that wickedness. Therefore, God’s object is not to get you out of hell and into heaven, but to get the devil out and Himself in, so the image of Jesus can be seen in men.

    My response:

    Here is my answer, but if this were on my wall I’d delete it after I answered.

    1. Believers should turn from sin. I defy that person to show where the apostles preached a turn from sin gospel (read all the Acts account, they usually use one, but the point is forgiveness of sins).

    2. Repentance is a change of mind about something. The philosophers at Mar’s Hill (Acts 17) ‘ought not think’ that God was made by man of gold, silver, stone. The Jewish Rulers needed not THINK that because they were children of Abraham, they were in. It’s a change of mind of what you previously thought was true, TO a belief of the truth.

    3. If you confuse salvation and service – people will think they must WORK for salvation and hence have not been saved. Eph 2:8-9, Rom 4:2-5; 11:6; Gal 2:16

    4. Salvation is all about being saved from the wages of sin (eternal death). The free gift is eternal life. Becoming a disciple is a process and happens as we continue in His Word (John 8:31-32),

    5. Obviously a strawman argument, we teach that turning from sin is a work. A good work, a righteous thing for believers to do. If we add turning from our evil deeds as a necessity to be saved, we’ve added a work (Titus 3:4-7 – NOT by works of righteousness).

    6. This person obviously has no clue about the whole counsel of God. Turning from sin is part and parcel of the whole law. Certain laws are absolutely about turning from sin, Numbers 5:6-7 is just one example of turning from sin in the law although really most of them are.

    Conclusion: Adding a work of the law to the gospel is an accursed gospel since no one has ever been justified by the law. (Gal 2:16; 1:6-9)

    Followup numbers.

    1. He’s quoting Charles Spurgeon not the Bible

    2. Chapter and verse?

    3. We don’t receive the Spirit until after we believe (Eph 1:13).

    4. If it were automatic, the epistles wouldn’t have been very necessary as most are about teaching believers how to do that.

    5. While we were YET sinners Christ died for us (Rom 5:6-8) and we know that He quickened us (made us alive) while we were still dead in our sins (Eph 2:1)

    6. I taught through John and Jn 20:30-31 tells us the purpose of John. Part of believing the gospel is believing WHO Jesus is, but we believe that He is God. They go further and bring up James 2 and the demons who were never offered salvation (obviously insinuating works for salvation).

    7. A ‘hearty repentance from sin’? By their humble opinion? If it were in our ability it would have to be perfect. ‘Jesus on the throne of the heart’ (again, chapter and verse?) I agree we need to submit to God, resist the enemy. Humble ourselves under His mighty hand. We, meaning believers (1 Pet 5).

    Anyways, lots of men’s words and opinions with no sound exegesis of Scripture.

  277. Edit:

    [Various punches and insults]
    My comment: LS is very oppressive. Sad.

  278. The story of Jimmy Taylor, the missionary who was arrested in Uganda, has gone viral. Since he is a missionary, he has a gospel to sell, and I thought it was worth commenting on. When an independent journalist shared this, I was shocked. I am so used to fake news. I can’t help myself.

    Some of his comments

    “Look at me. Look at Christ who died for you”
    My comment: Jimmy Taylor is not Jesus. Jimmy did not die for the sins of Ugandans or anyone else. Jesus warned us to flee these false christs. This is the evil fruit of theosis. Unfortunately, Francis was in no position to take flight, much less to fight back.

    “No, you calm up”.
    My comment: I don’t know what he means by that. He is drunk. He was rightly told to calm down.

    My comment: the tone implies repenting of sins. It is not a condition for eternal life.

    “You obey me”
    My comment: obedience is not a condition for eternal life, and Jimmy is not Lord.

    “I have come to help Uganda”
    My comment: no country needs a false gospel or a false christ.

    “You disgrace Jesus”
    My comment: Jimmy disgraced Jesus with blasphemy, a false gospel, insults, and violent behavior. He showed no grace. Identity politics exists, and so does the real thing.

    “You hate yourself. You hate Uganda. You hate Jesus”
    My comment: this is pure fruit inspection. No attempt was made to gather facts before hurling accusations. Jimmy did not ask Francis what he believed. This is typical of accusers of the brethren.

    “In three days, three quarters of you will die”
    My comment: so he thinks he is a prophet. His doctrine already proves him false.

    [Various punches and insults]
    My comment: the “missionary position” is LS, and it is alive and well. Sad.

    Jimmy’s arrest is also circulating. He tried to disarm cops, in reverse Michael Brown style. He should have been shot. Despising government is a characteristic of false prophets (2 Peter 2:10).

    The gospel is the good news that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and that eternal life is freely offered, without respect of persons, to anyone who believes. It is none of the above madness. Stories like this confuse people about the character and work of Jesus, and make me sad.

  279. “His mercy speaks only when we are still alive”

    That is a clear denial of eternal life. I gave it a sad face.

  280. Phil, I think there’s a lot of that going on.

  281. Unfortunately, I think people are lead to say the magic words like…. confess with your mouth… on the name of the Lord….and you wonder if they really know and believe what Christ’s death and resurrection means for them personally.

  282. Where is the gospel believed? One reason I go places on the internet is to find out. I can’t resist. I also like road trips. I was in DC last Saturday.

  283. Phil, good point. People need to hear the gospel message and the only response needed is belief.

  284. I recently saw a film where there was a scene where a woman came forward in this church and wanted to be saved. She was told to confess her sins to God, believe Jesus is the Son of God, and confess him as Lord, and she would be saved. She was not given the gospel message.
    I think people are sometimes told what their response should be instead the facts and reasons behind why they can be saved and to believe Christ died for their sins and rose to save them. Instead they focus on Romans 10:9-10 as the go-to, two step salvation passage instead of the rest of what Romans and other Bible passages say about salvation.

  285. Kate, we are glad that you are here, and that you find the site to be a blessing.

    The various groups within “churchianity” can usually identify what makes them each unique. What they can’t identify is what makes them all the same.

  286. Katmazdobelieve

    Yes and Amen!!!

    I would always ask church elders, as well as peers, what exactly made Christianity different from all other religions, including RCC. The answers were always in the vein of “They worship false gods; They worship themselves”. Even in my fog while laboring under the delusion of the false gospel I could see that something was wrong in Churchanity.

    I am beyond grateful that I landed here. Since coming here and understanding the real Saving gospel the intrusive thoughts that fed my religious OCD (also called scrupulosity) have decreased to almost none. All the anxiety and depression which caused so much ” fear of the unknown”, to quote Hobbs, is no longer running my life. And when I do have moments of weakness and uncertainty, moments of doubt, then I rest in the assurance of eternal life given freely by my Maker because of Grace alone by Faith alone through Christ alone.
    The meaning of freedom in Christ always seemed to be obscured in my mind. That is no longer an issue. His yoke is light.
    Anyway. Thanks for reading my ramble. I know I don’t comment often, many times I want too but my biblical understanding is not near on level with the regular commenters here.
    Thanks again.
    This site and all of regulars were a God send.

  287. kate, I agree with you. The man-made religions are all the same at the core.

    And, many of the same people who won’t even tell you the correct way to have eternal life hold themselves out as “life coaches” through their books and articles.

  288. Jason, she may not be in that book, but she is well-documented as a false teacher.

  289. Hobbs, yes, what a relief!

  290. The fear of the unknown. Will I have a nasty surprise when I die? Have I done enough good in my life to ‘appease the gods’.
    How could anyone ever know on that basis?
    Faith is the only connection we have with the next realm.
    ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith…’
    Phew, what a relief.

  291. Katmazdobelieve

    I think they are all the same. They can package the product differently but it all boils down to works for or evidence of salvation.
    It is grace plus works no matter how you slice it. And by reading casually on other religions it is still the same message of “Save Yourself by Your Own Good Deeds”.
    The religions of man are always self-centered.

  292. Oops, Bowen does not mention Meyer. There is nothing like a good old Mandela effect to throw me for a loop, lol. All these false teachers seem the same.

  293. Holly, yes, it is a ludicrous statement, and it would be considered comedy if it was said by someone that was mocking the church. But unfortunately, they are serious.

    Johninnc, yes, Billy Graham certainly was a false teacher, and his son, Franklin, is just as bad.

  294. Shane, I’m sure your laughter was like mine. Yes contradiction for sure. When it said ‘interior contradiction’ I thought of inward wolves. They just won’t believe the Word of God and corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    Still shaking my head at how ludicrous that statement below is….
    “Salvation includes being accepted just as you are, when you turn from your sin”.

  295. Shane, you are giving your friend sound advice.

    It reminds me of the Billy Graham events using “Just As I Am” as their signature song.

  296. Johninnc, I’m tired of the chew the meat, spit out the bones (or don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater). They are advocating that you literally take doctrinal teaching from one in error contrary to what the Scripture says.

  297. I looked up the doctrine of a church for a friend in a city where I used to pastor. When reading it, I just had to share with you all here, one of the most funny statements on salvation I’ve ever seen. It includes an interior contradiction. What is an interior contradiction? It is a statement that contradicts itself, like this one: “Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone”.

    So here’s the one they put in their statement of faith: “Salvation includes being accepted just as you are, when you turn from your sin”.

    That’s a new one for me. I can be accepted by Jesus just as I am, so long as I sufficiently clean up first. Too funny!

    Needless to say, I will be telling her to avoid that place.

  298. Jason, I’m not a big fan of “chew the meat, spit out the bones.” The Bible says “mark and avoid.”

  299. I saw someone share a video of Joyce Meyer that she thought was uplifting. When people post these things, I do not know if they are spitting out the bones or swallowing whole or are ignorant of the full range of their teachings. I would rather put warning labels, or better yet, not share at all. In response, I shared the Bowen book, referenced the section on Meyer, and expressed my concerns. Most seriously, Meyer is LS.

  300. Jason I am sorry you lost your friend. I’m not sure he was clear from the beginning, but if so, I pray he comes out of bondage.

  301. Holly, I took a look at some of those comments and responses today. That poor guy is really carrying a heavy burden.

  302. John, I have a commenter over on my article on Paul Washer who doesn’t undertstand the same (eternal life is just that).

    I’m not going to entertain more of his comments (I re-read your guest guidelines – good rules which I will use as my own guideline at my site). But I did enjoy answering some of the typical junk they use to try to prove you can lose everlasting life.

    How sad of an existence that is. And how awful of an eternity if they do not come to a knowledge of the saving truth.

  303. A couple of comments today from an article on a pastor who committed suicide:

    He’s not with Jesus though, suicide is a sin so he’s with Satan.

    My comment: This commenter does not appear to understand the gospel. A believer in Christ has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited. If the pastor ever believed in Jesus as Savior, he is with Him now. If Christ died for our sins, that includes suicide. If a person believes that he will end up in hell if he commits suicide, then he doesn’t believe that he has eternal life.
    Instead, he believes that he has contingent eternal life, conditioned on his work of not committing suicide.

    Depends. For example, a soldier in battle jumps on a live grenade thrown by the enemy is a hero going to heaven for sure…even if he saved no one and wanted to die.

    My comment: This commenter also seems to believe that eternal life is conditioned on works. If the soldier in that example had ever believed in Jesus as his Savior he would be going to heaven for sure. If not, even if he saved an entire division by his heroic act, he would not be going to heaven.

  304. I am sorry. I couldn’t help myself. Losing a friend that I grew close to over six months was painful. I don’t intend to start a discussion. I respect your decision.

  305. Jason, as you know, we do not teach the spiritual death of Christ at ExPreacherman.

    However, comments on this issue were officially closed by the late Jack Weaver, and by Bruce and Jack collectively (please see links below if you are interested in those previous discussions).

    I would ask that we not rehash this topic again.

  306. I just lost my friend to that teaching. Sad.

  307. Jesus Died Spiritually heresy has missionaries. Burnt offering teaching is popping up in divers places. Sad.

  308. Jason65, in love and no condescension, just concern, don’t spend very much time on the counterfeit. Not enough time in the day to learn all the wisdom found in His Word.

  309. That’s true, because every ideology out there has its pet sins, and their base is like, repent of them or burn in hell. Sad. LS goes against the feel-good therapy of many of these groups, but they dish it anyway.

    I think I got Tucker and Jeffress confused, lol.

  310. Jason, the news sources and political channels promote LS, because it is so popular with their bases.

  311. Following news and political channels can get you mixed up with false gospels. Tucker Carlson teaches LS.

    I have listened to number of African sources, out of curiosity, and I had the misfortune of stumbling upon Dr Mumbi. Her news is interesting to me, but she promoted a prophecy of Myles Monroe, who I know raises many red flags. She is not clear on the gospel herself, since she always teaches discipleship and never salvation. I have yet to stumble upon her gospel. When explaining the meaning of Christmas, she mentioned the sacrifice of Christ but did not say what it means. She omitted to mention that it gives eternal life to the believer. She is not explicitly LS, but the problems with what is left unsaid are huge. Even if the Monroe prophecy of Africa’s rise comes to pass, God did not send it.

  312. It is ironic, but just the cares of this world. One need only to watch any television show, news channel, series, etc., and you would generally easily find one of a few things:

    1. Propaganda of some kind
    2. An Agenda against believers
    3. A worldly foretelling of future end times events
    4. Common ground with loadshippers in that man is somehow the savior in the story.

  313. Jason, very ironic.

  314. That same commenter who was justifying Trump on the basis of a false gospel now brings up the Rich Young Ruler.

    He said: “show me your fairh without works, and ill show you the President’s Faith by his works. What did Jesus tell the Rich Younger ruler to do? Nothing? Or did He tell him what to do to get to Heaven?”

    I am like, Trump did not sell all his possesseions. If he really believes that, he should espouse liberation theology. It follows. Nothing is sillier than right wingers with leftist false gospels.

  315. As if flat earth madness weren’t enough, Q gets thrown into the mix. The #walkaway movement is enticed into the trap. The latest prophecy is the arrest of Hillary. The obsession with codes is indistinguishable from astrology. Are they reading too much Snicket? The video, QAnon Is Dead, puts the jig up. Distraction is part of divide and conquer. Back to the gospel. Jesus died for all my sins so that I may live. If I know nothing else, even so, it is well.

  316. Johninnc – I can relate to the ‘too easy’ or ‘too hard’ but their ‘too easy’ is to just be a disciple, do all the things he commanded. (One told me all the acts and works of disciples was the ‘gospel 101’). He did make it easy, but they corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.

  317. Holly, these videos are not about the gospel but about politics. I do not expect the gospel to be mentioned. But in the comments, these false gospels rear their ugly head.

  318. Holly, I know. I’ve been told that I make it too easy and that I make it too hard. I didn’t make it anything. It’s the gospel of Jesus Christ.

  319. Johninnc, that last comment you posted, that I missed, it is just heartbreaking at times to see people get the gospel wrong, over and over, and think they can ‘achieve salvation’ and if you dare point out that isn’t what the Word teaches, it is you who are being ‘nitpicky’.

  320. Jason, what I always find very telling on those videos is they don’t mention the gospel at all.

    And the conditions they are mentioning about righting a wrong can be seen in multiple aspects of the law. And we know the law never made anyone righteous. They are so ME-centric, it doesn’t dawn on them the obvious. They are talking about what they must do to be saved, as as you noted, they rarely mention the only condition and if they do, we know they always add works to it.

  321. Jason, you are correct that neither asking for forgiveness, nor correcting wrongs are conditions for receiving eternal life.

  322. This comment was on the youtube channel Kevin’s Corner: “Kevin, Make a video about the President’s salvation. President Trump said that he did not believe that he needed to ask for God’s forgiveness, and the evangelical community went nuts, but he said that he needed to make right the things he has done wrong. THIS IS REAL SALVATION! I know a lot of people that have asked for forgiveness, but they refuse to make right those things they have done wrong. Just a thought Brother. God Bless Brother Kevin”

    And no one mentioned faith. Neither asking forgiveness nor correcting wrongs is a condition for receiving eternal life. The gospel dies the death of a thousand distractions.

  323. Jason, in many cases when the LS crowd talks about celebrities (as well as anyone else)they make sweeping conclusions about whether that person has eternal life.

    Like you said, we can’t know, and neither can they.

  324. From a youtube video on Kanye West’s rant: “please pray for this man. Pray for him, that he would have a revelation of who Jesus is. Pray that he would repent and turn from his sin”.

    My comment: Kanye was used by the left and is now being used by the changed lives crowd. They do not think he is saved. They think that repenting of sin is a condition for receiving eternal life. That is so wrong. He might be saved. He once confessed in one of his songs: “my momma used to say only Jesus can save us”. The appropriate prayer is: if he is not saved, that he would believe in Jesus for eternal life, and, if he is saved, that he would have peace and boldness to speak the truth. Now they inspect his fruit and say that he is still lost. The lordship plantation is a dangerous state of mind.

  325. Brother James Key. Breaking: Q identified, QAnon exposed.

    In this video, James Key is full of intimations of salvation by works. He is constantly boasting about what great love he has for the Lord, and saying that we must stay on the narrow way. He is creepy.

  326. Following is a comment I gleaned from the internet today:

    However, our God is a merciful one. Should they decide to repent, follow in the footsteps of the LIGHT OF THE WORLD, they can achieve salvation. Jesus refuses to give up. We have but only open the door to our hearts and let Him in and take control.

    My comment: Our God is merciful. He provided completely for our salvation by sending Jesus to be our Savior. On needs only believe in Jesus as his Savior to receive eternal life. We do not “achieve” eternal life. We receive it by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. One does not have to “let Him take control” to receive the free gift of eternal life.

  327. Jason, that is a very apt depiction.

  328. I seems that faith, in Catholicism, is a gift received through sacraments. Sad.

  329. Chas – it’s true, they don’t consider the ‘how much’ or ‘how long’ or ‘how sincere’ that can go on for that lifetime of perseverance. But similarly to the Catholics, they can’t really say they’re ‘saved’ yet. For them it’s presumptuous to do so.

    I ran across a Roman Catholic article recently and surprised to see it’s identical nature to the doctrine the Calvinists teach of the gift of faith and the gift of repentance. There was nothing on the article that a hard core Calvinist couldn’t have written, yet just like the Calvinists, no good Biblical proof, just proof texting (as in repentance given to the Gentiles or repentance and forgiveness given to Israel) as their proof.

  330. #3, the “confessed Jesus before men” requirement always made me wonder, “How many times? Just once? Once a day, a week, a month…? How many people a day do I hafta witness to for me to be really saved, HUH?

    At least the RCC has demands that are specific: Confess sins to a priest and receive the Eucharist once a year, minimum, attend Mass every Sunday (and “holy day of obligation”). Of course, the “good deeds” part is kinda open-ended…

  331. Hobbs – you asked, why not just rest in the knowledge that God is faithful to save us?

    I’ve asked that many times over the year, or why they preach Calvinism vs. Christ and Him crucified, and I’m afraid they haven’t come to that knowledge (that it’s God who is faithful) because they just don’t believe it. Or have become bewitched, either way we know they espouse a false and powerless gospel.

  332. Johninnc, I still marvel that people want to make a doctrine over a couple unclear verses used without context and witness from the rest of His Word. Whether it be repentance and faith being a gift bestowed upon a few, or confessing publicly in order to be given the free gift, or turning from sin, or becoming baptized, etc. They are unwilling to consider the other passages and I can’t figure that out. Afraid? Proud? Steeped in religious tradition? Or is it just the religious/carnal feeling of belonging to a certain sect?

    I find it sad for them, but I continue (as you do) to speak the Word in the hope and prayers that they might somehow take heed.

  333. Holly, I had told my wife earlier today that this sounded like Church Of Christ.

  334. Johninnc

    The person/group that explained how to become saved and stay saved sounds like Church of Christ or the like. They cannot ‘know’ as they suggest, there is no way they can know by their carnal standards.

  335. Following is a false gospel message that I found today in an internet comment.:

    The gospel invitation:

    1. Heard the word
    2. Believed the word Romans 10:17
    3. Confessed Jesus before men Matthew 10:32
    4. Been baptized for the remission of sins Acts 2:38

    and if so

    5. Are remaining faithful James 1:12-22

    The events in this word will continue until that final day, the question is, are you prepared? When you pass on, are you ready? You can be!

    My comment: Neither confessing Christ before men, nor water baptism, are required to receive the free gift of eternal life. And, it is God’s will that Christians be faithful. However, it is not an automatic consequence of believing.

    This internet commenter is trying to evangelize, but sounds like he needs to have the gospel explained to him by someone who clearly understands it. If this commenter has never believed in Christ alone, apart from works, he is not prepared.

  336. Yes it seems so convoluted to go into all the ‘God gives me the determination to stay faithful’. Why not just rest in the knowledge that God is faithful to save us. Again, the simplicty that is in Christ. It’s like a fear of simplicity, e.g. ‘you can’t say you just have to believe and you’re saved’. Actually the guy did start to say that elsewhere…. but, but… then he went and added ‘and confess with your mouth’, which he describes as God always requiring an ‘accompanying action’. Yes, we get it, add some work and a whole host of other requirements until our assurance is in shreds….

  337. Hobbs, Romans 7 describes our fate in the flesh well and so by God’s standards, we fail.

  338. Hobbs, that is a very good example of the confusion out there. Essentially, this person is saying that God has empowered him to keep himself saved (that is, work his way to heaven) by his determination to stay faithful, which is appropriated by faith. Very mixed up.

  339. Actually, no, on second thoughts…. I’ve never believed I was saved on the basis that I have ‘determined that I am going to remain faithful’. A silly attempt at humility on my part.

  340. This is from someone’s facebook video, a guy who’s actually been a Pastor much of his life:

    “If you want to know the truth about what I believe about eternal security, I am eternally secure. There is no way that I can lose my salvation. Why? Because I have determined that I am going to remain faithful. Now, it doesn’t depend on me, it’s the grace of God that brings salvation to me, and it’s by faith I appropriate His provision so that I am a born again son of the Living God and I am on my way to heaven. And there’s no way that I am going to throw this thing away. Halleluijah! So when He convicts me of sin, I quit sinning, when I do something that’s not pleasing to Him, I stop. If I do commit a sin, if I do something that I know I shouldn’t have done, I immediately confess that, and put it right.”

    My comment: I feel this epitomises what ExP is trying to correct; confused people thinking they can help save themselves. (Not that I wouldn’t have been just as muddled a couple of years back!)

  341. I agree about both comments. There seems to be no end to the subtleties of error.

  342. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today, along with one of the responses to it. My comments, to both the original comment and the response, are in bold parentheses.

    Excerpt from original comment: Habitual sin, however, is you choosing to be separated from him for eternity.

    (My comment: habitual sin is not choosing to be separated from Christ for eternity. People who believe in Jesus as Savior have eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited, whether or not they sin habitually.)

    Response to original comment: You are wrong about habitual sin. All sin can be habitual. What God requires of believers is to be at war with their sins, which is a wholly different attitude than accepting sinful behavior as one’s chosen lifestyle.

    (My comment: Being at war with one’s sins is not a requirement for receiving, keeping, or proving that one has received eternal life. It is God’s will that believers not let sin reign in their lives, but it is not required for eternal life.)

  343. Jason, martyrdom, like any other work, won’t get anyone into heaven.

  344. I didn’t wish to revisit this topic again, but that heretical article proves that this false gospel is being used by the perveyors of LS generally and not just a few fringe groups. It is used at random. They usually assure you that if you aren’t practicing sin, you are ok. But sometimes they turn up the heat just to scare you, and they stay out of the kitchen themselves. The article was called, “I Hope My Son’s Life is in Danger”. What a murderous thought!

  345. Jason, agree. Being martyred has nothing to do with receiving, keeping, or proving that one has eternal life.

    In fact, believing that one must agree to martyrdom to receive, keep, or prove that one has eternal life is not consistent with believing in Christ alone for eternal life.

    It is a sad possibility that someone who has never believed in Jesus as Savior could become a martyr for a false gospel.

    The “Gospel Coalition,” is a Calvinist/Lordship “salvation”/ecumenical monstrosity that is actually aligned against the gospel.

  346. From the Gospel Coalition:

    “When my son posed his question before dinner, I was tempted for a moment to comfort him by saying that he may not actually die for his faith. But that’s not what the children who saw Christ die on the cross would have understood. And that’s not how Jesus talked when he said things like, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you [on my account]” (Matthew 5:11). There is nothing more eternally healthy for the imagination of a young boy than to hear these words and place himself in the drama of Scripture. The same young imagination that may at first fear death, when captivated by Christ will remember these words and the breath of Jesus that lays low his enemies. In fact, we will know our children believe Jesus’ promises about heaven when they believe Jesus’ promises about now”

    My thoughts: that contradicts the testimony many funerals. Some die for him, some don’t. Nothing is more healthy than simply knowing the gospel and believing in it. The false gospel of dying for Jesus is not what the thief on the cross understood when he saw Jesus die a few hours before him, as I would suppose under the condtions. The thief died for his crime, but Jesus died for the thief. This is not what Nicodemus understood either. He avoided persecution but understood that he was promised eternal life. And no one practices the martyrdom gospel. They use it to give us false guilt. That is what I experienced with Wurmbrand. He himself ceased to practice this when he came to America and founded VOM. This article intimates that salvation is a trade. Withstanding persecution earns a reward, but the martyrdom gospel is just simply LS with the most stringent standard imaginable.

  347. Just wow. Now I am utterly convinced that Calvinism is new age.

  348. Jason, that is interesting. There is a pretty good section on grace at the old Clear Gospel. Please see below:

  349. In the comments on a Facebook group post, I saw all sorts of confusing definitions of grace. The definitions included: a principle, an influence, a thing that teaches, a voice, the Holy Spirit. The OP asked for a definition, and some of the ansers given were true statements about grace (it teaches us to deny ungodliness) but not its definition (unmerited favor). Others stated that faith is a gift.

  350. Agree. My mom is currently affiliated with Methodists, and my sister has a female pastor. It happened due to a confluence of strange circumstances. But the main cause is that our churches got confused. My reaction was to cease to assemble. Theirs was to put up with the confusion. But I have known them my whole life and I have had this conversation with them. That leaves me with a good idea of what they believe. I recently found a church that was clear enough for me, and that makes my family happy for me. My mom even tried it with me on Mother’s day.

    My comment on the Kenya site is still awaiting approval. Bummer. I was hoping to reach them.

  351. A comment from today:

    With respect to Southern Baptists: None of them are true Christians.

    My comment: The Southern Baptist convention adheres to the Baptist Faith and Message, which does not comport with the gospel. However, merely belonging to a church that is confused about the gospel, or is affiliated with a group that is confused about the gospel, does not mean that a person lacks eternal life.

    People belong to these groups for a variety of reasons, most of which are not good reasons.

  352. Hobbs – I do the same as you, I think I’m being harsh when I’m protecting the truth, and I have to keep in prayer to not let my emotions (not saying you do) guide my time spent with these types. You want them to know the truth, but many are like the Pharisees of old and have stopped up their ears, some of them murderous in so many ways.

  353. Hobbs, that person did get one thing right, even though it’s probably not what he meant. He says, “There are many people following Jesus today in an unsaved condition”, which is true and just what Mat 7:21-23 says, because they are trusting in their works and not HIS work. It is finished, AMEN!

  354. Correcting myself again! It’s not ‘harsh’, understanding that is the difference between heaven and hell.

  355. “…paid for all their bad” being just a casual expression of course. Even a person’s ‘good’ is also sin until they trust Christ, according to the Bible. Seems harsh when we think of our ‘good’ un-saved friends. But that’s the book.

  356. Yeah, I guess until they are fully convinced that Christ has paid for all their bad, they’ll keep writing articles to bash everyone else over the head with.

  357. Hobbs, they get assurance from how obedient they think they are, relative to others, or from their own life trajectories (the “I used to’s”).

    If we point out that perfection is required to get into heaven, they will say something like “I’m not perfect, but God knows I’m trying.”

    “Trying” is a work.

  358. That un-marked grave, err… website I stumbled upon was using the ESV ‘tweak’ of John 3:36 to help qualify this statement:

    “We as Christians are not exempt from judgement or from the repercussions of sin. If we are in Christ, there is no condemnation, but if we are deceived by false theology into thinking we are in Christ, while actually living in disobedience, we are in trouble. We are not in Christ and there is condemnation. No salvation. The wrath of God remains on us. False-grace doctrine is eternally deadly. There are many people following Jesus today in an unsaved condition.”

    I suppose they’re defining false-grace as licentiousness?

    Why they wanna keeping beating-up on grace, for goodness sakes. It’s the only thing that’s ever gonna save them!

  359. Chas, yes, it is amazing, like JMac’s ‘hard to believe’ book. They make it hard, they shut up the kingdom of heaven to men and I completely agree, I once wrote on that very thing (insulting the Spirit of Grace) by their works.

    I see you and I were thinking alike on the ‘obey’, good one to add and I agree, they are rejecting His Lordship, that He is Jehovah, the Savior or Jehovah who saves. They are counting on themselves to add to or finish His work.

    Virtual venting also 🙂

  360. Hobbs, I tried to take all the loadshippers perversions of Scriptures (and no I’m not speaking of a particular translation) but of their ability to cherry pick Scripture and make the word obey as in salvation mean particularly obedience. And so I went looking for what the Word said vs. what they tried to do in twisting it (satanic) or wresting it to their destruction (those who might be carnal but can’t understand).

    Romans 10:14-17 tells us to obey unto salvation is believing His report (God’s testimony of His Son). To obey = believe His report 🙂

  361. Jason, I agree that John 11:25-26 is very clear regarding the promise of eternal life.

    I have prayed for these men as well.

  362. From KrazyInsideKenya:

    commenter2: “commenter1 what is the narrow gate. Jesus said He is the only gate. The only train you should be telling people is the Lord Jesus Christ not repentance and holiness. Jesus Christ is the only Holy and righteous and everyone who is in Him is counted holy and righteous this is the only truth of God’s word. Telling people to enter the train of repentance and holiness is misleading and not based in the true word of God”

    My observation: commenter2 gets it. Repentance (of sin) and holiness (works) are not conditions of eternal life. He correctly states that righteousness (justification) is in Christ alone. commenter1 was defending a gospel that was (counterfeit miracles aside) hardly different from MacArthur’s.

    commenter3: “i normally pity the holiness and repentance worshipers. they worship owuor more than they worship God. why do you kneel before the man? he is just another human being just like any of you. in fact you commit blasphemy by revering him that much. read the bible, understand what God needs of you and stop this nonsense of blindly worshiping owuor”

    My observation: “holiness and repentance worshipers” is an apt name for lordshippers. Churchianity is full of the reverence of men, both past and current. Commenter3 seems to get it. He went on to mention in a later comment that Jesus gave clear answers. John 11:25-26 is one of the clearest statements of the promise of eternal life.

    I hear that Kenya is full of false christs. I pray that these two commenters don’t fall for other traps. I mentioned this site and greeted them with: Mungu abariki ninyi (God bless you).

  363. Chas, good point about obeying the call to believe the gospel.

    And, no, you don’t come across as venting.

  364. Holly…
    Isn’t it amazing how LSers think that by making grace “expensive” (as opposed to “cheap” or “greasy”)– making an infinitely valuable gift of God into something “expensive” on their corrupt human scale–they have avoided insulting the Spirit of grace? I think many LSers have no sense of irony. I was surprised to find out what a heretic Dietrich Bonhoeffer was. So many “evangelicals” hold him up as such a shining example of Christian dedication.

    Regarding John 3:36, I think the main problem with LSers isn’t due to the ESV translation of John 3:36 per se, but that they don’t see that “obeying Jesus” in the context of the Gospel means obeying the call to believe the Gospel. That’s what “obedience to the faith” (Romans 1:5, KJV) is. LSers imagine that they have “obeyed the Son” in some conveniently-defined sense, “qualifying” them for salvation (and giving them a scale by which they can measure others). They don’t see that by their stubborn insistence on adding a requirement to the Gospel, they are not making Jesus their Lord, but just the opposite; they are rejecting His lordship. More in-their-face irony which they don’t get.

    Great point about “merited favor”. That’s it in a nutshell. And these same “Reformed Protestants” and “Evangelicals” will hoot and holler about the RCC’s false gospel, all the while proffering their own brand of the same thing. No wonder the Vatican is having such an easy time scooping the “lost brethren” into the RCC.

    Do I sound like I’m venting? I guess I am. Sorry.

  365. Hobbs, I try to avoid the poison as well.

    That’s a really bad translation of that verse.

  366. John, it’s probably best I just regard that stuff I read as poison and let it go. Guess it’s a lot about making a decision on where one stands and not wavering (easier said than done at times). Anyway, the guy was quoting the ESV perversion of John 3:36, where it changes ‘he that believeth not the Son shall not see life’ (from the KJV) into ‘whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life’. Says it all really.

  367. Hobbs, I don’t recall having heard that exact term. Since grace is “unmerited favor,” I suppose false grace would be “merited favor.” But the enemies of grace usually don’t have any problem with “merited favor” (salvation by works).

  368. ‘False Grace’ is one I heard the other day, guess it’s nothing new to people here? So there I go, googling ‘false grace’ like a lamb to the slaughter, knowing just what I’m in for…. and yep, sure enough, I get terrorised by all sorts of twisted ways to undermine a persons assurance. Oh well, suppose I’ll recover eventually.

  369. That’s good insight, it does seem sometimes like they think their fruit doesn’t stink 🙂 And they are positive you have none and are licentious. But I know where those accusations come from.

  370. Holly, if I hear someone call grace “greasy grace” or “cheap grace” or any of those types of terms, it makes me think they are uncomfortable with someone who is “undeserving” (relative to them) of receiving grace.

  371. The last article I wrote was yesterday about ‘greasy grace’. That term sickens me. Cheap grace originated from the ‘disciple’ Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn’t even believe in the Deity of Christ or the literal resurrection or the virgin birth. And this is a man to quote? People are oblivious to the fact people can be disciples and not believers and believers can not be disciples. Yet the famous gotquestions site says this is not possible. It is not a ‘two-step’ process they say. If not, then salvation is a process over time, and they cannot possibly know if they have achieved it.

    In addition they define Christianity as a person who has ‘repented of their sins‘ and ‘made Jesus Lord of their life‘.

    We don’t ‘make Jesus Lord of our life’, we believe He IS Lord, who He said He is, the great I AM (God, the Messiah, the Savior). Jesus is Lord of even the demons, He is Lord of all, maybe THEY might remember that.

    I almost never hear them use the word Savior. They use Lord, they use Master, (as did Judas). But is He their Savior?

  372. Here is one from today, by someone who made multiple comments “defending Christianity”:

    You have to be born again that’s what the Lord Jesus said and that mean’s turning from your sins and turning to Jesus for salvation…All other’s is wrong and Jesus is right.

    My comment: Yes, one must be born again. But, that does not mean “turning from your sins and …”

    This commenter, like so many others, is teaching that Jesus is necessary for eternal life, but that He is not enough. One receives eternal life by Grace through faith in Christ.

    Adding the unbiblical requirement to “turn from sins” to receive the free gift of eternal life changes the gospel into a false gospel of works that cannot save anyone.

  373. Also gotcha, Holly!

  374. Chas, definitely I did not mean to imply that the man who had a false understanding of what he needed to do to be saved was ‘almost persuaded’. 🙂 Just again, wrong identification.

  375. John and Chas, my comment was mistakenly meant to address Ras, not Chas, and the Jewish man not Ironside’s comments at all. Ras, not Chas (hence my confusion) said that he had the gospel down pat (almost). Intellectually convinced of false good news he said, which is where my almost persuaded comment came from. Whether Agrippa was sarcastic or not, I was just using the terminology.

    Hope that clears up any confusion.

  376. I admit that I should not have jumped to a conclusion based on one snapshot. That incident with the Jew was too scary.

  377. chas, I think people who become believers are often eager to start associating with other believers, and are not careful to avoid associating with groups who are teaching false gospels, whatever their particular motives may be. In so doing, they themselves begin to tolerate, then accept, and then promote false gospels.

    Galatians 2:4 refers to “false brethren,” who came in to fool the real brethren. And, it worked. So, it is impossible to tell which is which.

    People who teach false gospels are under God’s curse, no matter why they feel the need to do it. It is irrelevant why they do it, only that they do it.

  378. Here it is May 10, and still my posts of 5/6 and 5/8 have not appeared on that site, nor have I gotten any response to my email. Either something is wrong with my email, or they’re ignoring me. Posts from others have appeared in the thread since, so I know somebody’s checking things.

    Regarding Ironside, I did find an excerpt from his personal testimony online. In it he recalls going home from a party as a teenager and deciding to read his Bible;

    I had an undefined feeling that I had better pray. But the thought came, “What shall I pray for?” Clearly and distinctly came back the answer, “For what God has been offering me for years. Why not then receive it, and thank Him?”

    My dear mother had often said, “The place to begin with God is at Romans 3 or John 3.” To both these Scriptures, I turned and read them carefully. Clearly, I saw I was a helpless sinner, but that for me Christ had died and that salvation was offered freely to all who trusted in Him. Reading John 3:16 the second time, I said, “That will do. “O God, I thank Thee that Thou hast loved me, and given Thy Son for me. I trust Him now as my Savior, and I rest on Thy Word, which tells me I have everlasting life.”

    Then I expected to feel a thrill of joy. It did not come. I wondered if I could be mistaken. I expected a sudden rush of love for Christ. It did not come either. I feared I could not be really saved with so little emotion.

    I read the words again. There could be no mistake. God loved the world of which I formed a part. God gave His Son to save all believers. I believed in Him as my Savior. Therefore, I must have everlasting life. Again, I thanked Him and rose from my knees to begin the walk of faith. God could not lie. I knew I must be saved.

    (Bold, mine.)

    No mention of a need for anything else besides faith. Even the “right feelings”. It looks to me as though–after trusting in Christ alone for his own salvation–Ironside at times fell into the trap of adding a certain amount of “commitment” as being necessary for salvation when explaining the Gospel to others. I’ve seen that in so much “evangelical Bible teachering” since I left the RCC back in the ’70s. It’s like people are afraid to tell others about the free gift of salvation in Christ without attaching some kind of qualification to it just to make sure they won’t be teaching “licentiousness”. No wonder so many people are so confused.

  379. MacArthur could quote Ironside.

  380. Jason, based on Ironside’s purported recollection of this incident, he was frustrating grace.

    Whether or not he the man ever heard the gospel and believed in Jesus as his Savior, we can’t know.

    And, with respect to Ironside himself, we can hope that he had trusted in Christ alone, although we can never be sure.

  381. This anecdote about Ironside tells me that he is as scary as MacArthur. He kept a man out of heaven, and I don’t know if he ever entered himself. This is not a simple case of waffling. When we are in heaven, we will know who the Nicodemuses are.

  382. Chas, I understand what you’re saying, and you may be right. The man may never have heard the clear gospel, due to the unbiblical add-on.

    I was having trouble relating it to Agrippa, since the Apostle Paul gave him the real gospel.

    It’s also possible that the man heard the gospel from Ironside and believed, prior to Ironside adding the unbiblical part. It’s impossible to know. In either case, Ironside muddied the water with this false gospel add-on.

  383. John…

    As I see it, the real issue with the Jewish man in Ironside’s anecdote is that Ironside didn’t give him the true gospel of grace. The man thought he had to “give his heart to Jesus” and then “stand for the faith” to be “truly saved”. As a result, the man knew all about Jesus identity and purpose, but felt he couldn’t rest in the facts of what Jesus did for him because he was told that a “true commitment” is necessary for salvation. It looks to me like a classic case of “Yeah, eternal life is free, but you have to pay for it later.”

    It appears my 2nd try at posting in that thread has been unsuccessful. This afternoon I sent the site an email asking why. The owners of the site have responded to me in the past when I contacted them on other matters, so I expect to get something in response.

  384. Holly, I don’t agree that someone who says he intellectually agrees, but can’t “give his heart to Jesus” is only “almost persuaded.”

    I also think Agrippa was being flippant when he said he was almost persuaded. I don’t think Agrippa believed either “intellectually” or “with his heart.”

    Following is how I interpret what happened with Agrippa:

    First, in Acts 26:3, Paul compliments Agrippa for being an “expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews.”

    Then, in Acts 26:22, Paul said that he was being tried for “saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come.”

    Then, in verse 27, Paul asked Agrippa if he believed the prophets, and then said “I know that thou believest.”

    Paul was doing what we refer to as “leading the witness.” Paul knew that Agrippa, being an expert in all Jewish matters, would not disavow belief in the prophets. (Prior to his having become a believer in Christ, Paul, a Pharisee, would never have disavowed belief in the prophets. But, until he became a believer, he inherently was disavowing the prophets by disavowing Christ, of Whom the prophets said should come.)

    In verse 28, Agrippa gives his flippant response. My attempt at a paraphrase is a flippant remark by Agrippa in which he was saying “yeah, great argument, you almost had me. Now, let me get on with the business at hand.”

    None of us received eternal life by “giving our hearts to Jesus.”

    There is no difference between “head faith” and “heart faith.” If there were, none of us could ever have any assurance of eternal life. It would be a constant introspection of “I know I believe, but did I really put my heart into it?”

    Regarding the man that Chas referenced, based on the man’s previous comment (that his confessing Christ would break his mother’s heart), he reminds me more of the believers in John 12:42: Nevertheless among the chief rulers many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

  385. Chas, really sad, reminds me of Agrippa, almost persuaded…

    Ras – I agree, we’re really near the end.

  386. Ras, I think a lot of people (perhaps most in professing Christendom) are “intellectually convinced” of a false gospel, even if they say they have “heart faith” (it is often still in a false gospel).

  387. Chas
    Years ago I watched a video on Youtube (still there? I don’t know) with a Jewish New Testament scholar (Pinkus Lapid). He had the gospel down pack (almost) but he believed it was a gentile gospel and Jesus was a gentile Messiah. It wasn’t for him/Jews. In other words he was intellectually convinced of false good news. Lapid is dead and gone and we don’t know if he ever came to believe the true good news. We can hold out hope for the Jewish gent you speak of . I think we are so close to the end that the dam is about to burst (concerning Jewish people coming to Christ).

  388. Chas, I have seen at least one example of Ironside using life change as proof of the veracity of Christianity.

    I am not sure about Ironside’s overall body of work, but I do not use him as a source for favorable quotes.

  389. John…
    No, it sure doesn’t sound like grace, which is why I’m wondering about Ironside. I didn’t expect that from him.
    The Jewish man also said told him, “Intellectually, I am convinced, but give Him [Jesus] my heart I cannot.” Apparently, he had been fed the “give Jesus your heart” method of salvation by Ironside. I’m beginning to think that the LS false gospel is more deeply entrenched in the “evangelical church” than I thought.

  390. Chas, it sounds like there are some diehard works “salvationists” frequenting the site you are referencing.

  391. Holly…
    The message that the Ironside quote was taken from was a lecture series given by Ironside. I don’t know exactly when the lecture series was given, but the incident itself happened shortly before the 1906 SF earthquake. The lecture was given sometime after the quake.

    Btw, my comment uploaded to that blog has not yet appeared. Posts there are subject to moderation, and they don’t show until after they are approved. A couple of comments within the last 24 hours have appeared, so either my comment was rejected, or I mis-clicked and it was never uploaded. On the unlikely event that it was lost, I posted a similar comment about a 1/2 hour ago. We’ll see if it ever appears.

    One of the comments that have shown up contained this:
    “[Christ] must be above all and we must be ready and willing to give it all up for Him, be it family, house, job, security, safety, esteem, friends, even body and life. That is discipleship and how it is when we have truly given Him our heart and soul.… (Bold, mine.) They got “discipleship” right I suppose, but note the implied back-door requirement of “commitment” as proof of salvation.

    And this:
    “I have friends and family too and have shared the gospel with them and for one reason or another, they just won’t come to Jesus the way He requires.” The person seems totally oblivious to the fact that “the way He requires” us to come to Him is with empty hands.

  392. Holly, like I said I am not crusading against beer or wine (neither of which is prohibited in scripture/drunkenness is) nor cigars. I have smoked a few cigars in my time and have drunk more than my share of beers. I dron’t dink anymore (I mean don’t drink) and have not smoked a cigar in about a decade (never a regular smoker but was a regular drinker of beer—lotsa beer). When I did either I never thought I was doing it to the glory of God. I drank to be drunk. When I smoked, I smoked for the extra buzz. But neither vice made me unredeemed or unredeemable neither did they make me “holier”. Am I to think that since I “believe” (use the Calvinist definition) and no longer do such things that I am now (maybe) “saved”? Or do I wait a few more years (and a few after those) to know if I have been given saving faith? Naw, my mind is made up (meaning I believe) that Jesus died to pay for my sin and rose from the grave to give eternal life. I might drink to get drunk again. I might smoke a cigar for the buzz again. I can’t imagine doing so and thinking it was done in the name of the Lord. I’ll know I am running the race backwards (and I might—God forbid—enjoy it).

  393. RAS – what an interesting observation on your part. That totally makes sense to me. As long as what they do they assign to the glory of God, then they are sinless. Really, really interesting thought. I do get doing what we do to His Glory, but I think we’ll find out later some were done more in our flesh. The point is, there is no way we can know for sure which each and every thing, but THEY seem to know that their works are all good. But really how sad and scared they must have been inside, even in their pride.

  394. Spurgeon was the Billy Graham of his day.
    Both Spurgeon and Graham preached false gospels.

    Those that emulate either in their false gospel doctrine are under God’s curse.

    The most popular preachers are just that – the most popular. One does not have to preach the gospel accurately to be a popular preacher.

  395. Apparently Spurgeon has a Twitter account. Can you imagine being so obsessed with a man’s teachings that you create a social media account using his name? Charles Spurgeon (whoever he is) recently tweeted this gem, “The greatest enemy to human souls is the self-righteous spirit which makes men look to themselves for salvation.” Whether the quote is from the real Spurgeon or not the irony is that Spurgeon knew he was elect because he “used to”…but no longer… Talk about looking to oneself!

    Chas pointed out Spurgeon’s love of cigars and I have heard him quoted as saying that he smoked to the glory of God. I seen Calvinist’s “cigar and beer” clubs and the men all seem to have “Spurgeon beards”.

    I don’t bring this up to crusade against cigars and beer but rather to point out the hypocritical self righteous attitudes we can all harbor concerning our own vices and sins and Calvinism is a refuge for assigning some sins as beyond the capability of the elect while celebrating other vices and indulgences.

  396. Chas, I wonder. Not sure which articles were which with Ironside, some of his earlier stuff, he was coming out of the Holiness/Arminian/loadship movement. Later in life he spoke on repentance not being what people taught it to be. I sure hope he got it right. I’ve enjoyed his ‘Full Assurance’ and ‘Eternal Security’ but it’s been a number of years since I read it, so sure will have to be careful, thanks.

    On Spurgeon, he repented later in life about smoking cigars. I read somewhere he quit because he came to believe it was wrong. Here’s what’s funny. If when he realized that he believed it to be wrong, did he harbor that one viper for one or two more cigars? And if he had died in between, would his soul have been sunk?


  397. Hobbs me too… Spurgeon is a stronghold, so many seminaries tout him as the ‘prince of preachers’ and even seemingly free grace don’t take heed to the Word when they quote him. They assume he was saved, but they don’t ‘prove all things’ and look at his gospel.

    He wasn’t JUST a Calvinist. He was a hardcore holiness type preacher. Prove you’re saved or be damned.

    Yes, that part makes me mad. They won’t go in themselves, and try to keep others out too. It’s because they’re working for someone else.

  398. When I first ran across Ron Shea it was because I was doing my own research on all the instances of repent. I was looking for a secular example in history, and found Plutarch and I believe that’s how I found Ron and you guys too.

    But in my research I found how the word came about from the Latin and the meaning the Roman Catholic church falsely gave it way back when. And so this is why the error is so entrenched within so many false churches.

    Spurgeon’s sermons are just like a regurgitation of Pilgrim’s progress. And he’s made twice the sons of hell in so many preachers who also spew out the same false message that will condemn others.

  399. Jason, yes, very apt.

  400. Hobbs, that is why Holly calls it loadship.

  401. chas,that quote from Ironside does not sound like grace. No one has to confess Christ nor be baptized to have eternal life. Who is to say that the man hadn’t already believed unto eternal life?

  402. Holly…
    I sometimes wonder how Spurgeon would have reacted if someone with today’s attitude toward smoking had asked him when he would “repent” of smoking cigars.

    Besides Spurgeon, I’m wonder about H.A. Ironside. I just read an article attributed to him on another blog wherein he recounts a long talk he had with a Jew who had just heard Ironside speak at a San Francisco mission. Ironside talked to the man for hours, and at last the man said, “I am absolutely convinced now that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of Israel, and our people made a terrible mistake when they crucified Him so long ago.” Then Ironside told him, “I am glad to hear that. Now I trust you will come right out for Him, and by baptism confess His name.” The man then told Ironside how he couldn’t do that because it would “break his mother’s heart” and get him kicked out of his family, etc. Ironside used the incident as an illustration of how some people “love father and mother more than Christ” and implied that the man forfeited eternal life by not loving Jesus enough to leave his family.

    I posted a short response, saying that it was too bad that Ironside didn’t tell the man that all he needed to do to be saved was receive the free gift of God–eternal life–by simply believing in Christ’s sacrifice for him; that nothing else was required. The man might have believed right there, and then might even have had the strength to “stand for Christ” eventually (though of course that wouldn’t have been required for him to keep eternal life).

    It will be interesting to see the response to my post, which was the first comment.

  403. Hobbs, it makes me angry, too!

  404. As I read the end of that ‘turn or burn’ segment I too immediately recalled the ‘for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men’ verse. I was just going to search for the reference but carried on reading, only to find Holly had already got it. So I have to agree, Spurgeon is making it impossible for people there. And to think I would have just blindly submitted to this stuff before now; it sounds so ‘spiritual’. That sort of oppressive talk can send people to the funny farm – ‘loading men with intolerable burdens’ I’d say! Makes me angry.

  405. Holly, yes! He is setting a condition that no one can really meet.

    Notice how he says “the true penitent…” Penitence is not a requirement for eternal life. He has simply added another condition, thereby creating a false gospel.

    And, since he was a Calvinist, he preached a false god who would have had to have been the cause of the sin that Spurgeon claims to have so detested.

    Spurgeon has done so much harm to the spread of the gospel, and yet he is revered as “the prince of preachers,” and quoted as if he is scripture itself.

  406. These people get these ideas from listening to people like Spurgeon, who Paul Washer often mimics.

    From the Turn or Burn Sermon

    Besides the fact Spurgeon gets the meaning of Repentance wrong, take a close look at what Spurgeon claims about sin:

    If thou dost harbour one of those accursed vipers in thy heart, thy repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul. Think it not sufficient to give up thy outward vices; fancy it not enough to cut off the more corrupt sins of thy life; it is all or none which God demands. “Repent,” says he; and when he bids you repent, he means repent for all thy sins, otherwise he never can accept thy repentance as being real and genuine. The true penitent hates sin in the race, not in the individual—in the mass, not in the particular. He says, “Gild thee as thou wilt, O sin, I abhor thee! Ay, cover thyself with pleasure, make thyself guady, like the snake with its azure scales—I hate thee still, for I know thy venom, and I flee from thee, even when thou comest to me in the most specious garb.” All sin must be given up, or else you shall never have Christ: all transgression must be renounced, or else the gates of heaven must be barred against you. Let us remember, then, that for repentance to be sincere it must be entire repentance.

    Does this remind you of Matt 23:13 at the very end where he says the gates of heaven will be barred against them?

    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

  407. Jason, the reason why they don’t talk about what people should do, instead of what people will do, is because they are confused on the matter.

  408. Wow. Indeed, the scripture does not say, “saved people live changed lives”. Instead of saying that, why don’t they just quote Ephesians 2:10 and 1 Corinthians 3:15? Then they can clearly see that saved people should live change lives, and that salvation is not at stake should they fail. But they quote nonexistent scriptures instead.

  409. Holly, exactly!

  410. If the teaching of the Bible is ‘clear’, why don’t they use Scripture in context and let the Word speak for itself?

  411. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    The teaching of the Bible is clear. Many “believe” in the sense they think/say God exists, Jesus is His Son, etc. But, they live as if they do not because they go their own way while ignoring God. The Bible defines itself, it is spiritually discerned by people with the help of the Holy Spirit. True believers live changed lives as a result of their encounter with the Creator.

    My comment: the phrase “true believer” never occurs in the Bible. A changed life is not inevitable for a believer.

    A person receives eternal life by believing in Christ (alone) as Savior. This does not require “changed lives.” People should never look to changed lives for assurance that they have truly believed.

    One has to be perfect to enter into heaven – not just changed for the better. The only way one receives perfection is by imputation of Christ’s perfect righteousness. That comes the moment one believes in Jesus as his Savior.

  412. Jason, I’ll suppose we’ll never know in this lifetime what is true and what is not in the world, since we know who is prince of it right now and the whole world lies in his sway. But the suppositions and imaginations of people are hard to even pass by on social media. They have ‘proof’ that people are reptiles and other stuff I’d rather not even give any time to. It’s just that the ‘Christian’ community is doing the same over things that aren’t there in Scripture or are not cut and dried, but then they have ‘Bible code’ and they make their ‘shows’ and their followers gasp in amazement at what the person found in the ‘code’. Itching ears. Silly people. Very sad.

  413. Holly, I still can’t fathom why anyone thinks Calvinism/LS is good news.

  414. Interesting comments John.
    And I always wonder how they know if God chose them (if they really believe what their doctrine teaches – a lifetime of perseverance), or how do they know that they aren’t just deceived by God and his supposed ‘evanescent grace’. What is the point of that? Yet people actually believe that’s true, that God would do that, be deceptive. But then again, they don’t realize they’re making him the god that blinds people from the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Cor 4).

    As for commenter 2, what is his assurance of being saved? That God chose him? Again how does he know? For that matter, how does he know commenter 1 is a ‘brother/sister’? Because by their doctrine they can only know after this person has persevered.

  415. Yeah, it’s amazing what some people will believe. There’s somebody that believes just about anything you could even imagine.

  416. I am astonished at the craziness of Youtube. Until 2016, I never thought I’d live to see the day that a significant fraction of a major social network would take flat earth nonsense seriously.

    But this takes the cake. Some Youtubers are so hysterical that they accuse the US government, FEMA, and Walmart of mass slaughter and chip implantation. And I am wondering, where is the global earthquake? Why is America still here?

  417. A couple from today:

    Commenter number 1:

    Everything happens at it’s appointed time. No human ever converted anyone. God chooses you, not the other way around.

    Commenter number 2, responding to commenter number 1:

    Amen, hallelujah!
    So many deceived by false teachers into thinking that because they “accepted” Him that is their assurance of being saved!
    Salvation is all of the Lord!
    Great comment brother/sister!

    My comment: commenter 1 is seriously confused. Yes, God is omniscient and therefore knows what will happen and when. And, everything that happens, God allows to happen.

    But, that does not mean that God chooses, or ordains, everything that happens. If He did, that would mean that He was responsible for sin, and all other human actions. This is an abominable misrepresentation of the character of God.

    Commenter 2 also has confused Calvinism with Christianity. God desires that all men be saved. He has provided completely for our salvation, but only those who believe in Jesus as Savior have eternal life. God does not choose who will believe. Commenter 2 thinks that his misrepresentation of God is cause for celebration, rather than being a malignment of God’s character.

    The only biblical basis for assurance of eternal life is having believed in Jesus as Savior. Commenter 2 rejects the biblical basis for assurance, with the tacit faux replaceement basis for assurance of having been “chosen” by God for eternal life.

  418. John, the one who was unsure about being full of glee, is probably a response to Paul Washer’s insistence we’ll be applauding, but of course they feel since they were ‘chosen’ everyone is evil.

    The other comment on indirect ways to accept Jesus is so reminiscent of Billy Graham. This type of sidestepping and making up their own opinion on whether one is saved by how wonderful they are, is just sickening to me.

    So many are deceived by these types into thinking they can be good enough to ‘get there’. Even Billy Graham hoped when he got there that ‘St. Peter would let him in’ (never mind there is no such reference).

    The person doesn’t ‘like it when someone takes literal interpretations of the words of the Bible’?

    Ai yi yi, the people get more and more deceived. What interpretation would he like people to take? A guess? Subjective opinion? Majority rules? That’s how they operate.

  419. califgracer – great to hear from you again. Hope all is well with you and yours.

  420. Full text of a comment I read today:

    but there are indirect ways to “accept” Jesus – if you don’t believe, but act in his image, then you are accepting him indirectly – in other words your heart is accepting him even if your brain is not. I do not like when people take such literal interpretations of the words in the Bible – god does not always take things at face value – if you accept jesus as your savior but you are a horrible person, which do you think god would rather have – a horrible person who believes or a saintly person who does not??? I think we all know the answer.

    My comment: According to the Bible, God does not have a preference as to who receives eternal life and who does not. In fact, God wants all men to be saved. But, the Bible is clear that only those who have believed in Jesus as Savior have eternal life. Their behavior has nothing to do with it.

  421. A couple from today:

    While I celebrate the consummation of God’s kingdom with you, I’m not sure we should wait with glee to see the wicked destroyed. After all, unless God had chosen us by his unmerited grace, we’d be right there with firm on the receiving end of His wrath.

    My comment: God wants all men to be saved. He did not choose some to be saved and some not to be saved. Eternal life is available to anyone by grace through faith in Christ.

    “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.” There is a certain amount of confidence one can have. There is evidence to look for.

    My comment: One cannot have assurance, based solely on the word of God, if he is looking for other evidence based in changes within himself. The only evidence to look for is the biblical accounts of the gospel, and whether or not you believe the evidence.

  422. Reminds me of Brennan Manning.

  423. Hi So Cal Exile:
    I, too, am a Conservative Christian in So Cal, a state run by leftists (sigh). Re. Steve McVey, I read a couple of his books years ago (one was called, “Grace Walk,” the other, “Grace Land”). I recall some good things in the books speaking out against legalism, performance-based Christianity, compulsory duty based on fear and guilt in favor of experiencing freedom and joy in Christ, similar to Charles Swindoll’s, “The Grace Awakening.” Unlike Swindoll’s book, however, which in places condemned lordship salvation teaching, although he never labeled it as such, McVey’s writing, contrariwise, exhorts Christians to all get along. He claims not to be an ecumenicist, but he makes the following statements in “Grace Walk,” 1995, Harvest House, p. 164: “I am not suggesting that doctrine is unimportant. The faithful church holds to indispensable tenets of belief. However, a grace perspective on the church doesn’t demand that we all agree on every detail of faith and practice. . . . there must be room somewhere within the structure of God’s church for unity among the various members of the ecclesiastical family. Just because another brother may be different doesn’t automatically make him wrong. A grace perspective allows diversity among the family of God.”
    I once emailed his organization to get a clarifying explanation on its stance on lordship salvation teaching. The spokesperson who responded had no idea what lordship salvation was.

  424. SoCal, the author of “The Shack” wrote the forward to one of Mcvey’s books.

    That doesn’t really commend Mcvey to me.

    Please see previous comments linked below:

  425. Thoughts on Steve McVey? He’s got a few books on Amazon about grace, and gets the same accusations from the Lordship crowd that we do.

  426. One from today:

    Catholics don’t believe we can “work our way into heaven” without faith in Jesus. But to say that “I can accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior” and do nothing to put that faith into action and be saved is not Biblical.

    My comment: I heavily suspect that this commenter means that receiving eternal life requires faith in Christ plus some (unspecified and unquantified) works. That is consistent with Lordship “salvation,” which is a false gospel that acknowledges that Jesus is necessary for eternal life, but does not acknowledge that Jesus is enough for eternal life.

  427. Keith, that’s a very good scriptural reference for what seems to be going on with some of these religious folks.

    The reason we featured this article was to highlight what often passes for Christianity online. People will go back and forth defending their faith against detractors, whether or not their comments are consistent with grace.

  428. The zeal that the Calvinist/LS crowd has to make “disciples” or “Christ Followers” reminds me of what Jesus said about the Pharisees in Matt. 23:15:

    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves”.

  429. Jason, agree.

    The most ardent “defenders of the faith” often don’t have any understanding of the gospel.

  430. That comment also ended with two things that are not conditions for eternal life. As usual

  431. Here is an excerpt from a commment I read today:

    I’d argue it’s more than just having a relationship with Jesus that gets you saved. Judas had a relationship with Christ, and, well, see how that turned. God gave us specific commands to adhere to, and expects us to use his gifts wisely.

    My comment: We receive eternal life by grace through faith in Christ. Nothing more, nothing less. As the commenter aptly pointed out, Judas was a disciple and he did not have eternal life. However, the reason Judas did not have eternal life was because he did not believe in Jesus as his Savior.

  432. Here are excerpts from a couple of comments that I read today:

    Commenter number 1:

    I’m a sinner, but I believe and I believe I’ll barely slide across the plate if I just keep trying to get through those gates with some spark of goodness that causes me to earn my way.

    My comment: This person is confused. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

    Commenter number 2 (in response to commenter number 1):

    It is not a matter of earning entrance into God’s kingdom. But of accepting the grace he has offered through Jesus Christ, receiving the Holy Spirit and doing your part as he will show you.

    My comment: “Doing your part as he will show you” is not a requirement for receiving eternal life. If this commenter believes that we receive eternal life by grace through faith in Christ, he should have clearly delineated how we receive eternal life from what God’s will is for our lives once we become believers.

  433. Phil, yes, a treadmill is a good analogy.

  434. And john, How often have we heard church sermons about what we need to do instead of what we allow the Spirit to do through us? A treadmill is a great example of works salvation.

  435. Hobbs, you are right – we need to focus on Jesus. It is the enemy, not God, who wants us to focus on ourselves.

  436. I particularly like Curtis’s expression that he uses often on this blog: ‘the faith-rest life’.

    Without faith in Christ and our trust in His finished work alone on our behalf there can be no rest for anyone; we will continually be looking over our shoulder wondering if our works/behaviour are satisfying God enough to let us into heaven.

    Peace of heart and mind comes from making our loving Saviour the object of our faith, NEVER our works or behaviour.

    Takes a while for that to really sink in, did for me, still is sinking in.

    But it’s the most wonderful, surest foundation.

    So yup, me too glad that God worked through Jack Weaver to show me the ‘faith-rest life’.

  437. I am glad to be out of the woods.

    Afshin Yaghtin has a six hour video that was very interesting. It shows the processes people go through when they come out of false teaching into the gospel. Near the end, they even questioned what it means to be Baptist. Rarely do I see such openness from an IFB group. They made favorable mention of Ralph Yankee Arnold.

  438. kat, we are glad you are off of the hamster wheel.

    A Christian is simply one who has received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The false teachers are everywhere, keeping lost people lost, and trying to put believers back under the law.

    As the late Jack Weaver used to say, “the woods is full of ’em.”

  439. Jason, the LS crowd makes regular reference to Matthew 7:21-23 without knowing its real meaning.

  440. Katmazdobelieve

    The quote you shared states that True Christians obey the commands of Christ and love the Lord with all of their heart, mind and soul and love their neighbors as themselves.

    My comment: True. True Christians do one Christ’s command to rest in Him and his final work not learn and practice the art of being a Pharisee.
    I was invited to a women’s conference about being a spiritual warrior. I passed because the course is really about how to be a lawkeeper.
    I ran that hamster wheel too long. Now that I am off I will never forget back.
    The wheel kept me chasing something I can never have apart from Christ.

  441. I used to think that “true Christian” was implied by Matthew 7:21-23. I thought I had to be one in order to escape this judgement. Oh how I would brood over myself: was I really doing what Jesus said, or was I paying lip service? Armstrong exploited that weakness, as did Wurmbrand, Michael Brown, and all the false teachers. Did he really say to keep the Sabbath, be a martyr, or to disregard everything Paul said about my liberty in Christ? I eventually realized that LS itself says, Lord, Lord, and does not do what he says in John 3:16.

  442. Following is an excerpt from a comment that I read today:

    True Christians obey the commands of Christ and love the Lord with all of their heart, mind and soul and love their neighbors as themselves.

    My comment: According to the Bible, a Christian is someone who has received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

    The Bible never, ever uses the term “true Christian.”

  443. Brent, your experiences with LS sound similar to mine and other here. The peace and joy of God’s amazing grace to you.

  444. Chas, very good point about the “purpose driven” movement. And, getting people “working together” in the flesh under the guise of “getting busy for God” is very deceptive.

  445. Brent, thanks for sharing!

    I am very thankful that you are no longer sitting under LS teaching.

  446. “You gotta get busier” seems to be a mark of LS churches. Not coincidentally, it’s also a mark of “purpose driven” churches. The flesh trying to be “spiritual”, trying to redeem itself.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if “getting busy for God” turns out to be the leverage used by the false prophet to rally the people of the world to serve the beast.

  447. Just wanted to stop in and give a word of encouragement toward this site. I visit this site (but rarely comment) often and it has helped me understand one of the most misleading and subtle teachings out there which is LS.

    About 5-6 years ago I, by the grace of God, was introduced the errors of LS, which was the teaching I was setting under for the past 10-12 years. When I first started that church, I knew something wasn’t quiet right about the phrase make “Him Lord and Savior.” However, I was clueless to the concept of LS teachings. But I distinctly remember it not setting well within me about that phrase. What most people don’t realize that listen to and encourage LS teachings is that it prevents LOST people from hearing and believing the Gospel. What could happen, is a lost person under LS teaching could possibility jump to “works” to see if they are “truly saved” instead of hearing a clear Gospel message and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Thankfully, I was saved under a non-LS teaching church, however, started attending an LS leaning church a short while after I started college. I was saved but I quickly began questioning my salvation more and more because I wasn’t living up to the “standards” that man placed on me to determine if I was “truly saved.” Ironically, when I was looking to myself for “signs” of “true” salvation, what I was really doing was spending most of my time focusing on myself. But that is one of the subtly of LS teachings. To focus on anything but Christ’s finished work, mostly my works.

    Today, I enjoy not worrying about “making” sure I’m saved by my works. I trust in Jesus Christ’s finished work and have the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. I am so thankful for the Lord showing me through my new church, this site, and His word about how to rightly divide.

    This site IS a grace oasis and I am forever grateful.


  448. Incidentally, David Platt is a graduate of the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (NOBTS).

  449. John, I agree.

    I recently heard a sermon online by Greg Durell, the pastor of Heritage Bible Church in Terrytown, LA, just outside New Orleans. He said that Chuck Kelley, the president of the SBC New Orleans Theological Seminary, allowed the Roman Catholic Archbishop of New Orleans to speak to students at the seminary without offering an opposing viewpoint. The spirit of ecumenism is alive and well in the SBC.

  450. Keith, according to Wikipedia, David Platt is the president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s International Missions Board.

    Just wow. How can anyone who understands and believes the gospel have anything to do with the SBC?

  451. Jason, MacArthur is an unfortunate choice for anyone hoping for illumination.

  452. People in my family’s circle of friends are looking for bible study guides on assorted topics, such as women in ministry. My mom had the misfortune of picking out a MacArthur book, forgetting that MacArthur is one of the men who caused me trouble. MacArthur sometimes says insensitive things. I wish people would spend more time on the gospel. I can’t recommend any good books on that other stuff. There are too many bones to spit out. I tried to recommend Secure Forever, but that wasn’t about women. When I tell people that Jesus is not a probation officer, it brightens their day. I think a hundred solid pages on the gospel would do the same.

  453. Keith, Platt’s new book has the same false gospel as his other books.

    It will likely become the new go to book for “Bible studies” throughout the land.

  454. Who among us here at expreacherman is going to be the first to purchase the new book “Follow Me” by David Platt? (Sarcasm intended)

    The following is a short description of the book’s contents:

    “What did Jesus really mean when he said, “Follow Me”?
    In this new book, David Platt, author of the New York Times bestselling book, Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream, contends that multitudes of people around the world culturally think they are Christians yet biblically are not followers of Christ.

    “Scores of men, women, and children have been told that becoming a follower of Jesus simply involves believing certain truths or saying certain words. As a result, churches today are filled with people who believe they are Christians . . . but aren’t. We want to be disciples as long as doing so does not intrude on our lifestyles, our preferences, our comforts, and even our religion.

    “Revealing a biblical picture of what it means to truly be a Christian, Follow Me explores the gravity of what we must forsake in this world, as well as the indescribable joy and deep satisfaction to be found when we live for Christ.
    The call to follow Jesus is not simply an invitation to pray a prayer; it’s a summons to lose your life—and to find new life in him. This book will show you what such life actually looks like”.

    My comment: becoming a disciple or Christ follower requires first receiving eternal life by believing and resting on the truths of Christ’s finished work and His promise of eternal life for all who believe it. Assurance of eternal life is not conditioned on one’s intentions to be a Christ follower or the ongoing acts which should characterize a Christ follower,

    Platt seems to invite his readers to receive and have assurance of eternal life by becoming a lifelong follower of Christ, which to him requires forsaking worldly comforts and persevering in faithful service to the end of their lives.

    2 Tim. 3:13:

    “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived”.

  455. Jason, the whole thing is a muddled mess.

  456. “It’s not about you”

    I really hate that part. Jesus died for you. Of course it’s about you, or do they just not get it? By these words, they intimate that Jesus did not die for you. They exchange the atonement for martyrdom and the gospel for foolishness. Jesus’ feelings are hurt.

  457. Keith, agree that church attendance is not a requirement for proving one has eternal life.

    Whoever made the comment doesn’t really seem to understand the gospel.

  458. Saw this on Facebook today:

    “It’s not about you!

    Being a Christian is not individual-spirituality, self determined service, or rationalized obedience. One of the tests for true saving faith is the desire to gather with God’s people as the body of Christ and serving one another in a local church. To really do this you have to get over your self and the deception that God overlooks waywardness.
    Many people think of God in a therapeutic moralistic way. That view of God is idolatry since the object of worship is really you”.

    My comment: there is no such thing as “true saving faith”. Faith does not save; the object of faith does. Christ and Him crucified and raised is the only proper object of faith for receiving eternal life.

    Lack of desire to gather with God’s people does not indicate that one has not made Christ the object of his or her faith and received eternal life. It may, however, indicate that he or she is not making his or her faith productive and fruitful as God intends (Jas. 2:14, 17; Eph. 2:10).

  459. “which means you try not to sin again”

    What a load to bear and what a load of malarkey! God grades on a curve? He imputes perfect righteousness for effort? Trying (and we/he/she will never fail to fail) doesn’t resolve the sin issue nor does it render satisfaction to God. Wasn’t that the purpose of the Law—to show that trying is not gonna cut it?

    This is the problem with fruit fads. One person wants to see oranges and another wants bananas. The gospel is what God has received from the work of Christ, that’s the gospel. All the rest of it is fruit of the gospel—oranges, bananas and all! What Christ did on the cross satisfied the very heart of God and we are given the gift of life through faith alone. This is why fruit inspectors redefine faith as they do to always means faith plus…

  460. Excerpt from an internet comment I read today:

    Without breaking His own rules, the only way He could save you was by paying the just penalty that you were supposed to pay. To qualify, you need to repent of your sins (not just feel sorry for them, but also to turn away from them) and accept Him as your Lord (which means you try not to sin again).

    My comment: Jesus did pay for our sin. We receive eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. There is no requirement to be sorry for sin, to turn from sin, nor to try not to sin again in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. If any of those things were required, then eternal life would not be a free gift, but would be a trade for our willingness to do those works.

    The commenter is not teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, but is promoting the false gospel of Lordship “salvation.” This same commenter has made quite a few comments trying to prove the reality of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Unfortunately, his testimony is that he isn’t trusting in Christ alone for eternal life.

  461. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    If you believe, you are saved…but, here’s the catch…if you believe, you wouldn’t wake up each morning with the desire to sin against others. If you believe, while you may not be perfect, you are going to do your best to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ during your time on earth as a human.

    My comment: There is no “catch.” Nor does the Bible guarantee that a Christian will always do his best to follow Christ in obedience. Doing one’s best is a work.

  462. Jason, I have prayed for those who attended the funeral. I am glad that you were able to share the gospel booklet with this gentleman.

  463. A friend of my family recently passed away. I had given him a booklet, and it was discovered lying open at his bedside. He had been a recovering drug addict. At the funeral, they said he was in heaven. I don’t know how clear they are on the gospel, but there are no fruit inspectors at funerals. Bad things are never said. Would that these people were consistent and applied every day what was preached that funeral.

  464. When reading yesterday, I missed the point that the commenter confessed works alone. I agree, very telling.

  465. One today regarding the execution of a condemned murderer:

    Original commenter: I bet he’s screaming and thrashing in hell right now, one can hope.

    Responder: No hoping needed. HE IS!

    My response: Why would someone hope for another person to end up in hell, when it its God’s will that all men be saved? And, how can someone conclusively assert that someone else is in hell, unless the Bible specifically states it for that person?

  466. John, this quote demonstrates that salvation by faith-plus-works, when taken to its logical conclusion, inevitably leads to salvation by works alone.

  467. One from today, regarding the late Billy Graham:

    No one can refute the millions upon millions lives that have given their hearts to Jesus by solely listening to this man preach. His good works alone will get him into heaven.

    My comment: You just can’t make this stuff up!

    No one ever received eternal life by giving their hearts to Jesus. Eternal life is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

    Billy Graham’s good works will not get him into heaven, nor help him get into heaven. If Billy Graham is in heaven, it is because he believed in Jesus as his Savior at some point in his life, despite the false gospel of works that he so often preached.

    The commenter’s comment reveals a complete lack of understanding of the gospel.

  468. Keith, you are right – the only real assurance of eternal life comes from believing the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for our sins, as evidenced by His resurrection.

  469. I found this online recently regarding the meaning Romans 10:9, 10. Although the website on which the following quote appears does not necessarily subscribe to the expressed view, it does articulate the common LS (mis)understanding of what it means to “believe in thine heart that God hath raised [Christ] from the dead” in Rom. 10:9:

    “There are numerous options given to us by commentators and theologians for the Rom. 10:9-10 passage…When one truly ‘believes with the heart,’ he or she will eventually ‘confess Jesus as Lord.’ This will be the evidence that genuine faith has been exercised. What takes place in the heart in faith eventually reaches the lips. True Christians publicly identify with Christ. In Bob’s case, only God knows whether the faith in his heart was real. If it were, Bob would have confessed Christ publicly had he not died”.

    Oftentimes, in Biblical terminology, to “love” a first alternative and “hate” a second alternative is to exercise the will to choose the first instead of the second. In Rom. 9:13, Paul wrote, “As it is written, Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated” to describe God’s choice to select Jacob instead of Esau as the forefather of the nation of Israel. In 2 Thessalonians 2:10, Paul wrote that those who choose to accept the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation will do so because they “received not the love of the truth”. Therefore, those who “receive the love of the truth” will be those who choose to reject the Antichrist and believe the truth of the gospel.

    Paul articulated the gospel in 1 Cor. 15:3 and 4: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures…

    To “believe in thine heart that God hath raised [Christ] from the dead” in Rom. 10:9 is to choose to believe the truth that the resurrection proves conclusively that Christ paid the full penalty for one’s sins past, present and future. Since the resurrection proves that God was satisfied with the payment for sin’s penalty that Christ made on one’s behalf, the logical implication of such belief is that the atonement made is sufficient and that no additional offering for sin in any form is necessary to either secure eternal life or have immediate assurance of eternal life (Heb. 10:18). The one who accepts the full, once-for-all payment for the penalty of one’s sin which Christ secured, and the proof of such payment which the resurrection provides, has chosen to believe the truth that no further payment in the form of confession, good works, turning from sin, sacraments, animal sacrifices or any other offering is needed for immediate assurance of eternal life. Hence, he or she has “received the love of the truth”, and thus, believes in his or her heart that God raised Christ from the dead. This same idea is conveyed in Acts 8:37, in which Philip told the Ethiopian eunuch that he could be baptized “if you believe with all your heart”. To “believe with all your heart” is to believe that faith in Christ on the basis of His death, burial and resurrection, without any kind of “evidence” or “confirmation”, is sufficient to know that one has eternal life as a present possession.

    The one who is falsely converted under and sustains a belief in Lordship salvation or any other system which teaches works for assurance of eternal life, on the other hand, does not accept the implication that the resurrection proves conclusively that Christ made the final and complete sacrifice and offering for sin’s penalty so that no additional offering is necessary for one to secure or have immediate assurance of eternal life. Instead, the false convert maintains the belief that ongoing sacrifices and offerings in the form of a changed or transformed life, being a “Christ follower”, turning from sin, doing good works, etc., are necessary for assurance. Although a false convert may assent to the fact that Christ rose from the dead, he or she has not received the love of the truth, and thus, does not believe in his or her heart that Christ rose from the dead within the meaning of Rom. 10:9, 10. False teachers, in explaining Rom. 10:9, will often say something like “a person’s faith must be ‘heartfelt’, which implies that a certain kind of life will follow a “genuine profession”.

    A case in point is John Piper’s commentary on Rom. 9:10, which can be found on his Desiring God website:

    Therefore, believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead is much more than accepting a fact. It means being confident that God is for you, that he has closed ranks with you, that he is transforming your life, and that he will save you for eternal joy…

    According to Piper, one must offer up a continual or ongoing sacrifice or offering for sin in the form of a transformed life in order to have assurance of future eternal life. According to Heb. 10:26-31, the one who labors under such a false belief system can never have any real assurance that he has been delivered from sin’s penalty as he never knows whether he has done enough, turned enough or sacrificed enough to appease or “prove” he has been delivered from God’s judgment. In contrast, scripture promises immediate assurance of present eternal life (John 5:24) to all who believe in the sufficiency of the atonement as evidenced by the resurrection.

  470. One from today:

    A Christian is one who has resign from worldly life of sin, has confessed all sins to God and has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. One must believe in Jesus from the heart and not just by saying it. Read the Bible: NOT EVERYONE THAT SAYS “LORD, LORD” WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    My comment: this is works for Salvation, with a lot of yelling in capital letters. According to the Bible, a Christian is someone who has believed in Jesus as Savior. This quote seems to be saying that it’s author doesn’t believe in Christ alone.

  471. I was in a science mood. I went on youtube to listen to physics videos, found one that is four hours long. It was mostly string theory and way over my head. Evolution motivates the money wasted on string theory. Anywho, I checked out the guy’s channel and looked at the playlists. So much was in German. I noticed a playlist on Christianity. I looked at a video on it, expecting the pope, and what do you know? It was Steve Anderson. Can science prove KJV Only? Nope, better luck with string theory.

  472. A fictional character tries to solve the problem of death with magic. In the real world, they make the attempt with technology. Extremely similar. This is called Transhumanism or Kurzweilianism. 1 Corinthians 15:26 comes to mind. Transhumanism could possibly be an aspect of the mark.

  473. John wow. Yes, the problem of sin, death and the grave, all overcome by Him.

  474. There was an interesting article today in the New York Times entitled “The Men Who Want to Live Forever.”

    It was about billionaires who are working with biotech companies to extend life and who, as some put it, are “solving the problem of death.”

    My comment: This is folly. The problem of death was solved by Jesus.

    John 11:25-26: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

  475. Jason, I know what you mean. Some messengers and sites just don’t seem right, and sometimes it’s hard to put a finger on it.

  476. I agree, and I am pretty sure the commenter agrees. It is not just the words that are used by the man who made the video, but also the spirit in which he says them. Both the commenter and I could perceive something clearly wrong. I can empathize with people who are persecuted, just like I can empathize with people who are sick and suffering. But when I hear comments like “not if but when”, I go into introspective mode.

  477. Jason, withstanding real persecution is something that I think would bring eternal rewards, but no one has to do that to prove he has eternal life.

  478. On a spiritually jarring video about persecution, a female commenter had this to say:

    “im sorry i dont agree. thats not even scriptural what you just said. not all were called to be preachers, some are mothers without husbands like me. my husband died 10 years ago and if i were going to be killed for opening my mouthand then what happens to my little girl ? rape ? oh no. so you cant sat that in every instance. if i were alone i dont have a problem standing and preaching to anyone. denying him is different. they have you in front of a guillotine yea then its time your going to die then now is the time not to deny him. but to go out and preach to ppl knowing that they will kill you for it is crazy. Now if God Almighty tells me to preach..Then i will preach”

    My comment: my sentiments exactly! Persecution has become a loaded term, and relevant scripture gets twisted like James 2. That video made contradictory statements that reminded me of Calvinism. Abraham was not persecuted, and yet his reward is great. Calling petty injustices persecution sounds to me very much like reviling. I want nothing to do with it.

  479. Hixson uses Jesus Paid it All as intro in his Not By Works radio program. Mark Ratcliffe (friend of Holly’s) changed the lyrics of Victory in Jesus by taking the repent of sin out.

  480. The hymn, “Jesus paid it all”.. I am sure was meant to only say that salvation is truly ALL from Christ. I’m sure the writer meant there is no requirement from us, and thus, no way we could ever repay this as ordinary humans.
    This song is one my favorite, and only says that forgiveness and salvation are purely an eternal gift. If I were going to scrutinize this hymn then I could end up scrutinizing everything.
    I read the lyrics over and I don’t see anything LS in it: it’s pure grace: it’s title “Jesus Paid it all” says it all.

  481. Yes, the song isn’t clear. I picked up on it initially because I sensed it may have been written from an LS ‘backloading’ perspective.

  482. The song does not make it clear whether it is an add-on or a response. The quote sounds like clear LS. Laboring under loadship makes us all understandably hypersensitive. I myself struggle with “Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe”. I think that “owe” is a debt of gratitude, yet I am still uncomfortable. Paid in full means paid in full.

  483. Holly, I’ve just noticed, the verse in that song I found was: love and laughter and joy everafter, ours for the taking, just follow the Master. And for Johninnc’s other recent post he found this quote from Got Questions?: Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master… I’m thinking, at least the song makes a mention of the free gift, the other quote may well just turn people away, tragically.

  484. Holly, I thought the same thing.

  485. After being here for more than a year, I absolutely agree. The contradictions against the free gift are the root cause of all the instability.

  486. John:

    //There are many examples of people doing wonderful things in the name of their religion, let’s not forget them.//

    I feel pretty sure your mind went straight here:
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

  487. What helps keep me grounded is knowing that eternal life is a gift, and not a trade.

    A gift is something freely given, without cost or obligation to the recipient.

    Grace need never be mixed with insistence on life change of any sort.

    Of course, it is God’s will that believers live faithfully. But, it is not a demand for the free gift of eternal life, nor is it an inevitability.

  488. About eight years ago, I considered Wilkinism. Later, an Amazon comment coming from a MacArthurite caused me to waver. Martuneac warned me about Wilkin. Then I was tossed to and fro by Zeller, Got Questions, and Philip B Brown. I also came here briefly and wavered.

    Now Brown turned out to be Saturday keeping, and his new wind of doctrine taught that both unbelievers and carnal Christians would be resurrected at the Millennium in order to complete the spiritual journey. This strange combination of kingdom exclusion and second chance had an appeal. This was probably the worst doctrine that tossed me, since Armstrongism.

    Meanwhile, Hyles, Anderson and Stewart threw me for a loop. Hyles in particular would come out strong against fruit inspection, but not if I read an NIV. Other inspected fruit included: Christmas trees, being a Narnia fan, wine vs grape juice, rock music, the “beat”. The one question that lingered on my mind was: is any fruit necessary at all? Hyles did harm, and I was not willing to get my lasting impression from him.

    Last year, I read “I Never Knew You” by Bowen, who was blameless, and I knew I was not going back.

  489. Hobbs, I would have done better to word it following is not necessarily synonymous with believing. I would agree with John 10 there, and the sheep. 🙂 In Christ, Holly

  490. Following is a comment I read today:

    Those who do harm in the name of any religion are truly evil and should not be the lasting impression one takes from that religion. There are many examples of people doing wonderful things in the name of their religion, let’s not forget them.

    My comment: People who do kind things, under the name of any religion or under the name of no religion at all, have not done anything to merit eternal life. Nor have they done anything to prove that they have received eternal life. The fact that adherents of any religion can point to good works and life transformation should reinforce why focusing on those things for evidence of eternal life is futile.

    Eternal life is receiced by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  491. Hi Holly, I admit I was just going by John’s comment from his previous link where he says to a commenter: ‘We think “follow” in (John 10:27) means believing in Jesus as the only hope of eternal life’. It’s also stated that way in the ‘Difficult Verses’ section. Only that it can be synonymous, perhaps? Regards.

  492. Hobbs – Following is not synonymous with believing. Many who followed Him never believed, one betrayed Him. Many who believed on Him didn’t follow Him, some denied Him, some fled, some stayed carnal until death. But their soul was saved. God bless you this year.

  493. Yeah, so I’m really being a bit finicky with that song aren’t I. Following can be synonymous with believing. It’s a good song actually. Sorry Cliff. 🙂

  494. Jason, I’m glad!

  495. It cleared up my mind about John 10:27. Glory to God in the highest.

  496. Evidence of LS double-speak in a Christmas pop song.

    From ‘Mistletoe and Wine’, specifically this bit:

    ‘Love and laughter and joy everafter,
    ‘Ours for the taking, just follow the Master’

    So which is it; free for the taking or requiring a lifetime of following?


    Sounds like another muddled message.

  497. Hobbs and Jason, funny to come here and see the comments about the rich, and Americans in relation to the rest of the world. What we have, even the poorest of us to those of us who are doing better. Money comes and money goes, we can die tomorrow, I was thinking about that the other day, how many possessions we all seem to have without thinking about it. I know I am guilty of having too much in that it’s time in my life to simplify some. I had decided that for Christmas, I am going to enjoy giving some of it away. I’m not going to buy a bunch of new, but enjoy giving some of the things I already have as gifts to my children with a story and a relation to the Word regarding it. This has been so much more enjoyable this year as the focus continues to be on Him in joy, so much comes to mind with each thing I see. When we begin to understand grace, joy and also tears of gratefulness really begin to touch our lives more and more. God bless you all.

  498. Compared to the unborn, even the Africans are rich. We are all rich because we have access to oxygen and can breathe. So that makes us all guilty of wealth. Sorry to confuse you further, lol. The only way to be poor enough to be saved by poverty is to have never been born. But thank God for grace. With God, through grace, salvation is possible and accessible without the self-negating rudimentary teachings of this world.

  499. Hobbs, there is a lot of bad teaching.

    Sometimes, off-hand comments can provide an open door for talking about the truth of the gospel.

  500. I remember mentioning the ‘rich man and lazarus’ passage to a friend a while back. He said something like ‘wow, yes, that is quite a chilling account, I’m glad I’m not a rich man. Oh, but then we are rich compared to starving Africans’. Since I always take my friend very seriously, I momentarily panicked, thinking ‘what is he saying, that we need to give everything to the poor to really be saved in the end?’

    Sounds like neither of us really trusted being saved by grace alone!

    But, with such a barrage of false teaching doing the rounds it’s so easy to become bewitched. I guess most Christians are, on and off.

    Yes, this blog is a real gem.

  501. Jason, agree that the stuff you cited is bad teaching that sows confusion.

  502. CAnswersTV omitted to say that with God, all things are possible, and with that double talk sowed doubts that negated all the accurate statements on salvation that filled the rest of his extremely long comment.

    Without teaching that belief in Jesus puts me under probation, he has already implied it by his subtle accusations. These false teachers deceive even when they do not teach heresy. It is such a blessing to find this oasis of grace. Without it, my doubts would still be throbbing under that pile of rubbish, and my itching ears would be perked up to gather more crumbs. And I would continue on deceiving and being deceived.

  503. Jason, Jesus also said that with men, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

    Earning one’s way to heaven was not possible for the rich young ruler, nor for anyone else.

    Someone who is rich need not acknowledge he is rich in order to receive eternal life.

  504. From a self-comment on the youtube channel of CAnswersTV, which deals with the web of lies surrounding Hank Hanegraaff. Most of its information is of excellent quality, but in the middle of an extremely long comment, I find this piece of rubbish:

    “Statistics provided in this video show that even the poorest Americans living in the United States have a better net income than most of the world. For instance, according to Forbes magazine, June 1, 2013, the bottom 5% of United States citizens are richer than 68% of people living throughout the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $50,000 a year are richer than 99.69% of the people in the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $20,000 a year are richer than 96% of the people in the rest of the world, U.S. citizens who make $10,000 a year are richer than 84% of the people in the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $100,000 a year are in a category that only 8 out of every 10,000 people achieve in the entire world. Will it be difficult for rich Americans who don’t think they’re rich to enter into the kingdom of heaven? Jesus already gave the answer”

    My comment: what does being an American and being rich have to do with receiving eternal life? I know that I am a lazy, selfish person who has it easy. I also know that as base as these qualites are, they are not sins that I need to repent of in order to receive eternal life, since repenting of sins is never a requirement to receive eternal life. It is precisely such subtle lies that had me confused so long. It is stupidity like this that also argues for redistributing wealth, so everyone has equal probability of getting to heaven. False teachers like this are part of the problem, and they aren’t helping anything.

    For all the good that Walter Martin did, he never to my knowledge exposed the heresy for lordship probation or the cult known as MacArthurism. He also omitted to point out that the protestant reformation reformed nothing.

  505. One from today:

    God does not pick and choose when someone asks for forgiveness. It is up to the individual to turn from their sinning ways.

    My comment: Neither asking for forgiveness, nor turning from sinning ways are required to receive the free gift of eternal life. Eternal life is receiced by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  506. I just saw a video on Youtube by a conservative commentator (I do not know whether he has believed in Jesus Christ for eternal life) where he asked Amazons Alexa about Jesus Christ. Alexa’s answer was “Jesus Christ is a fictional character”. He then asked about Muhammad and Alexa said that he was a “very wise prophet”. He asked how Muhammad treated his wives and Alexa said she did not know. Reminds me of a line song I used to listen to “We are living in the future, I tell you how I know, I read it in the paper 15 years ago” but you can switch bible for paper. Crazy stuff.

  507. I wasn’t sure where to post this, but I saw the following description of a show on the EWTN (RCC) Network:

    Fr. Donald H. Calloway, MIC, presents men and women who have changed history through their trust in Our Lady and the rosary in “26 Champions of the Rosary: The Essential Guide to the Greatest Heroes of the Rosary.”

    My comment: This is idolatry, plain and simple.

  508. Johninnc, There was a guy who had a group following after him, I was incredulous that they would hear that Paul was a false teacher, but on the other hand, there are those who are unable to understand the whole counsel of God, so they instead relegate entire books written to the church as solely to the Jews. And in so doing, they may not call John, Jude, Peter and James false apostles, but they literally go against the purpose of the cross to make two men into one. Some have such a hard time with these other written epistles, they go so far that one teacher I ran into was calling it ‘meeting’ vs. church because we were not the church but the mystery.

  509. Jason, it is evident to me that those who question Paul can clearly see that he teaches salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. However, they so adamantly oppose grace that the only way they can explain away the Pauline epistles is to say that they are not inspired.

  510. I have been exposed to these teachings against Paul. For instance, Craig Winn draws people in with his sharp analysis of Islam on his Prophet of Doom site. And then he questions Paul and goes off into sacred name nonsense, denial of the Trinity, and Judaizing. One of his strange teachings is the femininity of the Holy Spirit.

    Those who question Paul also have to bear in mind that Peter and Luke supported him and that John similarly presents the gospel as simple. When Paul says that even “we” are under a curse if a different gospel is preached, he clearly includes himself. We ought to question and reject tradition, a pastor, a martyr, a church, or anything else, if it contradicts the very gospel. It is what it means to be Bereans. I do wonder what part of Galatians 1 people don’t get.

  511. Following are excerpts from a comment I read today:

    (Paul) Who is the 13th Aposte and was warned about by Jesus in Matt(hew) as being someone who talks you from following the Law. Jesus also mentioned him as a liar in Rev(elation) 2:2? Look it up.

    Paul offered “cheap grace” and said:

    “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than there one we have preached to you, let him be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” He also had people call him “father” and said “imitate me.”

    Jesus said follow the Law. If you follow Christ, you follow Christ. Otherwise, your a Paulist and follow fake teachings.

    My comment: The writer is incorrect that Paul offered “cheap grace.” Paul gave the good news of the amazing, free grace that is offered through Christ Jesus.

    The writer is also incorrect about Paul being a fake teacher, and about Paul contradicting the teachings of Jesus. They are in complete harmony.

    The writer is trying to deceive people into thinking that the Pauline epistles are not the inspired Word of God, because the writer is aware that Paul preaches grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

    No one will ever receive eternal life by law keeping.

  512. Holly, exactly. Just a blind person telling someone else to “get educated” is not very helpful. I guess it would be better than getting educated by them.

  513. Johninnc, every time I see those kinds of comments, I just shake my head in sadness. They don’t even see their own pride and arrogance, if they truly thought that what they were preaching was true, you’d think they’d deliver the message to you meekly, gently, instructing you with His truth, with some sort of ability to teach. Instead they frequently insult or manipulate with their words. Reminds me of 2 Cor 4:1-2

    Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; but have <brenounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

  514. “Get educated”.

    Usually this phrase is the calling card of the misinformed, ironically. A red flag.

    A more accurate translation would be “Get indoctrinated”.

  515. One from today. Name redacted:

    “__________ openly stated that he never repented of his sins or asked Jesus Christ to become Lord of his life. Obviously, that would mean he isn’t a Christian. Get educated.”

    My comment: the person who made the above statement is confused as to how someone becomes a Christian. Neither repenting of sins, not asking Jesus Christ to become Lord of one’s life are required to have eternal life.

  516. Jason – That’s because too many of them use Bunyan’s ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’ as their gospel.

  517. 2believe1is2trust – Astounds me too actually. A lot of the loadship/Calvinist churches are using the words ‘Grace’, I suppose they think they have a corner on grace with the five solas, but was that really what was proclaimed way back then? (I know you know it’s a rhetorical question).

    I do agree that they tend to put Him on the same playing field, as you say, but on the other hand, they attribute things to their idea of God that they would never attribute to themselves (i.e. choosing several of their children to go to hell before they were ever born). Like some awful lottery.

  518. We are also taught that to go places, we must follow directions and not make one wrong turn. The journey is not over until we arrive at our destination. No such thing as stepping into a magic wardrobe or clicking your heels three times and saying “no place like home”. Life itself is said to be a journey. The idea that only one turn is to be made, the road is very short, and leads straight to the gate, beyond which is eternal life, is just too simple.

  519. It’s always amazed me all these ‘preachers’ can say they believe in grace and consistently add works to salvation. They proclaim how great the Lord is, and He is, but put Him on the same human playing field so to speak. As humans, the sinners that we are, we always want to see results to help someone. ‘Yes but what have you done for ME?’ mentality. It’s not what we have done for Him but what HE has done for us. Too many take their eyes of Christ and put it on themselves as if we could ever have anything good enough to offer a Holy God! Blasphemy!

  520. Brad, yes, we’ve been taught we have to work or earn for things. Earn respect, earn our wage, work for everything we’ve got — even in those things, we don’t thank God for what we’ve been given (to our shame).

    It’s hard to comprehend free, we’ve been taught ‘nothing in life is free’. Yet He offered His life in our place, and in Christ and Him crucified, we see His price, but yet eternal life is offered ‘without price’ (Rom 5:15-ff, 6:23; Is 55:1-2). The ‘free gift’…

  521. Brad, good points. Our ways are not His ways.

  522. Prov. 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    As quoted by Keith.

    Look at the world around us. It is all predicated on WORKS.

    “pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps”
    “work hard to succeed in the world”

    Everywhere, people HAVE to work to make ends meet. It is an unquestioned fact.

    God was giving humanity a free ride before the fall. Everything was already provided for them in full. After the fall God declared to Adam in Geneses 3:19:

    In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    In other words, you’re gonna have to WORK for what you need now. It has remained this way ever since.

    The way of FALLEN men is personal works for personal gains.

    This manifests itself in spirituality as religion. Men trying to solve their own problems without God. In the secular world the United Nations is a fantastic example of this.

    WORKS for salvation are the “ways of death”.

    A question to ponder: If the way that seems right to man is NOT works, then why does this entire world system, upheld by men, thrive on it? Surely if it didn’t seem right to men they would have risen up against it by now.

    Works feed men’s pride. If men’s pride isn’t fed their ego is damaged. If their ego is damaged… well… maybe they will start seeing themselves for what they truly are in God’s sight.

  523. Phil, agree completely.

  524. People seem to always be trying to be right with God through their own righteousness, keeping the law. And they always fall short. But the only way is the righteousness of Christ on our behalf. This is the only way we will ever be justified and be right with God. (Romans 3:19-28)

  525. “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death”.
    -Prov. 14:12

  526. Keith, all good points. Religion is always looking for a loophole.

  527. John, the poster in your comment stated, “Of course, we humans are *always* looking for the loophole that allows us (me included, BTW) to be among the “chosen of God” without having to change or that we fatalistically leave the sanctification to God without dying to self”.

    No, unregenerate humans are always looking for the loophole that allows them to be among the “chosen of God” by doing good works or observing life changes without trusting in the finished work of Christ alone for eternal life. This is why all the world’s man-made religions, Calvinism and LS included, require good works and faithfulness to attain or have the assurance of eternal life.

    The problem of self-justification in fallen humanity goes all the way back to Gen. 3:7, where Adam and Eve covered their nakedness and the guilt of their sin using sewn fig leaves. This work, however, done on their own initiative and not at God’s direction, was inadequate. So God had to sacrifice an animal and clothe them with tunics of skin (Gen. 3:21), foreshadowing the once-for-all, final sacrifice which Christ would ultimately make on theirs and all of humanities’ behalf.

    Just as Adam and Eve had to relinquish their clothes of fig leaves in order to put on the animal skins which God provided, an unbeliever must put off his good works, faithfulness, turning from sin, life changes or any intention of those (repent) in order to receive by faith the perfect, once-for-all sacrifice which Christ has already made on his behalf.

  528. And, along the same lines, here is a long excerpt from one that conditions receipt of eternal life on “having to change”:

    The thing about these verses (Ephesians 1:4-6 and Romans 8:28-30) and others like them is that Paul is not emphasizing that believers were “predestined before the foundation of the world…” to be “saved” or, as you put it, “win the cosmic lottery.” Rather, it is a call to all believers to conform to Christ in his holiness and love.

    Of course, we humans are *always* looking for the loophole that allows us (me included, BTW) to be among the “chosen of God” without having to change or that we fatalistically leave the sanctification to God without dying to self.

    The scriptures make very clear that such ones deceive themselves, holding to a form of godliness but lacking its power. God being God and possessing omniscience knows who are the “sheep” and who are the “goats.” But as for us, it remains that we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The problem isn’t that God is judgmental, capricious, and selfish; the problem is that God is good and we are not.

    One last verse from 1 John 5:24: “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.” Of course, if I read an “X-acto” Bible, I’m inclined to ignore John’s call to love and holiness in virtually every verse that precedes!

    My comment: sigh. Where do I start? The writer says that the verses he cited are a call to believers to conform to Christ. Then, he suggests that if they don’t, they are not really believers. Why would non-believers be told to conform to Christ? And why would believers be told to conform to Christ if it were automatic, and therefore confirmed they were believers?

    Once a person believes in Jesus as Savior, he is chosen to be justified and ultimatlely glorified. One is not “chosen of God” by his willingness to change.

    The writer of the above comment seems to admit that he can’t know whether or not he has eternal life, so he just keeps working at it.

  529. Here is one I found today:

    Works are the naturally-occurring fruit of a saving faith, not a precondition of it.

    My comment: the above statement is predicated on the false Calvinist tenet of perseverance of the saints – if works WILL be present in one who has eternal life, they MUST be present.

  530. John 6:47 – I think we see in Scripture that works are not automatic, in fact the one thing that seems automatic is our propensity to sin.

    For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Romans 7:19

    It seems completely within the confines of literal context to understand that the exhortations in God’s Word are there because they are necessary. It doesn’t seen that complicated, but then again, Pharisee’s and Sadducee’s have always been selective with Scripture, ignoring what didn’t suit their own thinking and proof texting Scripture into their own accusations.

  531. It reminds me of the pompous king in The Little Prince who, on schedule, commands the sun to set. The sun sets automatically, so what was the point? He gives the lame excuse that no dictator would ever give an unreasonable command. He never heard of Lenin and the confiscation of grain, lol. Just like the Calvinists.

  532. Amen Holly, if works were automatic, then why would the Bible tell us to do good works? It’s like telling someone who can’t walk to not walk.

  533. John, I didn’t know that (about Rom 12:2 being the most searched Scripture), but we went over it in the Bible study a couple weeks ago. I completely agree, it is not automatic, it is an instruction for believers and wouldn’t be necessary if automatic. It is part of practical/ongoing sanctification when we cooperate to get in the Word I believe, (transformed by the renewing of your mind) which I believe comes by our walk with Him, the washing in the water by the Word (Eph 5:26) or the cleansing/sanctification by it (Jn 17:17). Abiding in Him and continuing in His Word.

  534. Spurgeon – sigh… these ‘princes’ are mini-accusers of the brethren.

  535. That made me chuckle, jason.

  536. Wow, I’m going to have to use that analogy when dealing with what I call the ‘changed life crowd’. I couldn’t come up with anything better myself.

  537. Jason, this is an apt analogy that illustrates the point pretty well.

  538. A Mafioso kills 100 people a day. He tries out Grace Confusion Church. He is told that he must live differently than before. For the next month, he kills 10 people per day. His Nouthetic Counselor tells him he is not truly saved. He says, but I used to kill 100 per day, now I only kill ten. How is that for living differently? The counselor takes him to MacArthur, who says, that’s not what I meant. The hitman complains that it is vague and hints that he knows other Mafiosi that could use his money. And he goes back to the priest, since the priest always prescribes how many prayers to Mary must be said.

  539. A repentance of sin for salvation needs to be repented of, but salvation by grace through faith is without repentance by God.

  540. Jason, this reminded me of a Spurgeon quote that also undermines the gospel:

    Another proof of the conquest of a soul for Christ will be found in a real change of life. If the man does not live differently from what he did before, both at home and abroad, his repentance needs to be repented of, and his conversion is a fiction. – 19th Century Preacher Charles Spurgeon

  541. Holly, it is indeed wonderful. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be in Adam’s situation.

    Everyone, this message from Hixson deals with the destructive Transhumanism movement.

  542. Jason, isn’t it wonderful really to know that He knows, even when others can’t begin to know our hearts and our struggles and our tears, He knows and cares. We can get such healing and counsel from His Word (Ps 119:25, 28; Pr 22:17-21).

  543. I feel like my mind is not renewed without surveying the wondrous cross. Everything from where I came from to what I should do must be understood in light of God’s grace.

  544. most of the time when preached
    A pulpit person will go from Roman’s 1:16
    and jump right to romans 12:1-2 using guilt as the motivation hence nullifies Grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness. Then go about trying to live the Christian in the energy of the flesh.
    When the Christian Life is lived by our relationship to the Holy Spirit. We are either filled with the Spirit or not filled. There is No third option.
    We are Filled with the Spirit by enjoying our salvation through The Word of God.
    How is your appetite for the Word of God?

  545. Holly, a while back, I heard Tom say that Romans 12:2 is the most searched for Bible verse on the internet:

    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    I hope that people are understanding that this verse reflects God’s desire for all believers, but that it is not automatic or guaranteed in the lives of believers.

  546. That 2013 comment was in the context of other people’s stuggles with bipolar disorder and depression, things the Bobgans won’t touch. My sister has bipolar. I gave the booklet yesterday to another lady who is a friend of the family, and she also struggles with bipolar. I have Asbergers. The Bible does know of at least one person who did not bring his problems on himself: Job.

    With that, I am once again turned off and will mark and avoid the Bobgans. They overreact.

  547. Excellent comment on James 2 and glorying Johninnc. Well thought out, completely agree, a pleasure to read the Word laid out clearly. Love and appreciate it.

  548. Hobb’s I’ve heard the argument about the ‘good sense to choose God’ or ‘smarter than someone else’. I’ve just never met their straw man before. Honestly, can you say you’ve met a grace believer who thinks it’s about being smarter, or having better sense, etc.? We know it’s not of works, lest any man should boast, and that it was because someone delivered the true message to is, the power of the gospel unto salvation. We all had God made known to us (Rom 1), we all had the conviction of the Holy Spirit upon us regarding sin, righteousness, judgment, unbelief. I know there were people praying for me, other’s labored in the harvest for me. God’s placing us in the best place, time, etc. Satan has minds blinded so people won’t believe the glorious gospel, we have to continue to get that light out there in wisdom in the battle. He has done all the work in salvation (1 Cor 1:30-31).

  549. Jason, I found at least one old comment (from 2013) critical of the Bobgans. Based on the quotes you provided earlier, I would rather not give them an extended platform here.

  550. I have had my own exposure to problem centered counseling with a job coach. It did not relieve job stress but added to it. I was uncomfortable fielding questions that were prying into the details of my life. I did not think questions such as whether I help my mom were appropriate. The coach used the counseling as an opportunity to inspect the apples and oranges that I consumed. In my deceitful heart, I cussed out the job coach. It was all I could do not to let the sin find verbal expression. I was an example of the Bobgans’ observation that men do not like being the counselee. I eventually resigned.

    Nouthetic Counseling is what MacArthur’s Grace Communism Church uses. I heard criticism of Theophostic Counseling from Hanegraaff (who converted to Eastern “Orthodoxy”).

    No one except the Bobgans criticizes counseling, and also no one criticizes the Bobgans.

    Jesus is Wonderful Counselor. He is the one who stores our tears in a bottle.

  551. yes. that was me promoting The psycohearasy website.
    the difficulty is their statement of faith for how a soul receives Christ is ok. But i have not researched all their papers.
    There really isn’t anything out there warning people of the dangers of trying to mix psychology and the Bible. for people who may find themselves caught in the web.
    the bottom line is the Clarity of The Gospel and our perfect standing in Christ before God the throne of Grace.

  552. Jason, agree with your analysis.

  553. Sorry Jason, was trying not to snitch. Honest.

  554. Material from Martin and Deidre Bobgan is sometimes promoted by comments on this site. I have caught them in double-minded fruit inspection before. Yesterday, I caught them teaching Lordship Salvation plain and simple.

    In Stop Counseling, Start Ministering, the Bobgans are exposing the dangers of biblical counseling, including Nouthetic and Theophostic. Their criticism can be summed up by saying that modern counseling, even if Bible based, encourages gossip, evil speaking, the unbridled tongue. Their teaching against self-esteem had turned me off, but their criticism of problem centered counseling held my interest.

    As they give an example of the problem with counseling, the Bobgans on p. 90 said:

    “From what Mary says during the dialogue, there is
    no evidence of repentance for sin or genuine conversion
    (beyond attending church and having some Christian friends
    for two years) or of any sense of her own sinfulness as she
    continues to complain about her husband and berate him.”

    This Mary had just claimed to have had a conversion experience. But what does repentance of sin have to do with salvation? What do the Bobgans say is genuine conversion? A sense of sinfulness has something to do with it but must be followed up with simple trust in the Savior. The Bobgans missed an opportunity to communicate the clear gospel and instead teach Lordship.

    I can’t recommend the Bobgans any more than Spurgeon.

  555. I was probably overthinking, just like the Calvinist. I agree with the discussion that followed.

  556. Hobbs, it sounds like you understand.

  557. Thanks all.

    I think I got a handle on the James 2 thing a while back, i.e. James isn’t saying faith is non-existent, just unproductive.

    Guess I stumbled a bit over the previous comment ‘Faith without works is dead, and it seems to please God to save us through dead faith’.

    But as Keith pointed out, ‘Faith unto salvation from sin’s penalty (receiving eternal life) is dead faith if works ARE involved’.

    Correct me if I still sound muddled!

  558. Hobbs, you said, “If faith without works are dead, is faith unto salvation dead faith since no works can be involved?”

    Faith unto salvation from sin’s penalty (receiving eternal life) is dead faith if works are involved, that is, if one’s assurance of salvation from sin’s penalty is in any way based on good works or the promise of good works. Romans 4:5 states, “But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness”.

    God’s desire is for those who have been delivered from sin’s penalty to walk by the Spirit and do good works (Eph. 2:10). As he does so, the believer’s soul is saved, which means that he is delivered from sin’s power and unfruitfulness and fulfills God’s purposes for his life. He will be rewarded at the Judgment Seat of Christ after the rapture of the Church (1 Cor. 3: 12-14). For a believer who has already been delivered from sin’s penalty, if he sees a fellow believer in need and does nothing to meet that need, failure to do good works does not deliver him from sin’s power since he commits the sin of omission (Jas. 4:17). Faith alone can’t save him from an unproductive life and consequent loss of reward (Jas. 2:17), but he still possesses eternal life.

    In chapter 2, James is talking about faith unto salvation from sin’s power and unfruitfulness with its consequent loss of reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ for one who has already been saved and knows he has been saved from sin’s penalty. By meeting the needs of fellow believers (v. 15 and 16), he demonstrates his faith to others and justifies himself before other people (v. 24), not before God or before himself (Rom. 4:2).

  559. as believer souls we can
    Shipwreck our faith
    Faith can be overthrown.
    We can loose our faith.

    but never never loose our perfect postion in Christ Jesus Justification

  560. Hobbs, we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The quality of our faith is not the issue in whether or not we have eternal life. The object of our faith is the issue. When one believes in Jesus as his Savior, the object of his faith is Jesus. Everyone who has faith in Christ as Savior has the potential to be faithful.

    James uses the term “dead” in relation to faith, to describe non-productive faith. Non-productive faith means that someone is not being faithful. James is appealing to the potential in his readership to be faithful, not to tell them to fruit inspect to determine whether they, or anyone else has eternal life based on works.

    This cannot lead to fruit inspection if we remember two things:

    1. The object of our faith is Christ. If we were to look to our works for evidence of eternal life, that would draw our eye away from our Redeemer to ourselves, which would make assurance of eternal life impossible.

    2. The Bible tells us that we can have assurance of eternal life if we have believed in Jesus as Savior – without any reference to works.

    Ephesians 2:8-9:

    [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Romans 3:26-28:

    [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    [28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Romans 4:1-3:

    [1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
    [2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    [3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    The word “glory” in Romans 4:2 has the same meaning as the words “boasting” in Romans 3:27 and “boast” in Ephesians 2:9.

  561. Interesting point: if faith without works are dead, is faith unto salvation dead faith since no works can be involved? Why do I sense this could lead back to fruit inspection.

  562. Agree with the above

  563. The believer who has dead faith, or faith without works (Jas. 2:17), has still been eternally delivered from sin’s penalty. Dead faith cannot deliver a believer from loss of profit, or reward, at the Bema seat (Jas. 2:14).

  564. Jason, it pleases God to give us eternal life as a free gift. Then, it is His will that we live for Him. But, it is not a requirement for eternal life – either up front or at the back end.

  565. And if it is self-serving, that takes the merit out of it. Faith without works is dead, and it seems to please God to save us through dead faith.

  566. Thanks, John.

    Receiving deliverance from condemnation is a self-serving act and is not a saving virtue

    Yes, that sounds like a good explanation to me.

  567. Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    better translation is Faithfulness
    “the fruit of the Spirit”
    Byproduct of abiding in Christ Through the Word of God by The Spirit of God.
    The Spirit of God gets ahold of us through the Word of God desiring to make the Word of God practical in life. Through application of Truth through experience.

    So were does faith come from?
    Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.
    How’s your appetite for the Word of God.?

  568. Hobbs, following is an excerpt from a quote by J.O. Hosler that addresses your question:

    Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes He will convict the world of unbelievers of sin, righteousness and of judgment (Jn.16:8-11). In order to do this, God created unbelievers with a capacity for experiencing conviction of sin, understanding the righteousness of God and understanding the judgment of God. To attribute to unregenerate man a sovereignly God-given capacity to believe is not attributing a saving virtue to the sinner. Receiving deliverance from condemnation is a self-serving act and is not a saving virtue (Rom. 4:5; II Pet. 1:5).

  569. Just out of interest, what is the counter-argument to the notion that if faith is not the gift then it kind of gives us the opportunity to boast that we at least had the good sense to choose God, even in our fallen state, than those who reject Him?

    Calvinism just sounds like a lot of over-thinking. Did my head in just working out that little paragraph!

    ‘Simplicity in Christ’ is the antidote to Calvinism.

  570. That faith in faith is unhealthy is another argument that the Calvinists use. If faith is NOT a gift, then our faith is in faith. In order for faith to be in God, it has to be of God. But would the vain fools know that gifted faith leads to fruit inspection, and fruit inspection to faith in faith?

    Why is it that we and Calvinists consistently derive the opposite conclusions from common premises? Faith is not in faith. The heart is deceitful. Human reasoning is corrupted. Faith is not a work. And even salvation is all of grace. And yet we cannot agree about the ordo salutis. They cannot see that works to prove salvation and works to keep it are effectively the same thing.

    They likewise cannot see that if God instructs us to believe and rejects us because he did not give our belief to us, then God offered us a fish and gave us a snake. Like Islam and hyperdisp, they make God a schemer and a deceiver.

  571. My prayers for all who read Ron’s booklet and hear and believe the gospel of grace alone.
    Brad, good point about people who make faith the object of their salvation rather than Christ Crucified for their salvation. To me this is the key issue and problem with Calvinism, LS, and any other form of legalism. No matter how they they try to present it, faith comes out as a work- faith plus works. And it’s not just faith; they just keep raising the bar of what that faith must produce in a persons life.
    Saving faith is no more than simply accepting the finished work of Christ at Calvary. When one does he receives full pardon and eternal life. Again, Christ has done all the work, all we do is accept it for our salvation.

  572. Holly, that distinction between salvation and discipleship is the most crucial isn’t it. Wish I had seen it when I was having my panic stations in the past.

    Found one of Jack’s old replies to someone on here:

    Salvation — we have a CHOICE to believe in Jesus Christ!
    Service, discipleship — we have a CHOICE to serve Him, it is NEITHER automatic nor mandatory. THAT is God’s Grace.

    The Bible is replete with admonitions for believers to “walk in the Spirit” (in obedience to Him), because it is not always easy nor desirable. The new nature says “Yes, serve Him” and the old nature says “No, I don’t want to, I have no desire.” These thoughts and decisions neither help nor hurt their salvation.

    Salvation is FREE —

    Service, discipleship can be costly — but voluntary and has absolutely NOTHING to do with saving or keeping one saved.

    I think that’s a wonderful bit of writing in truth and I guess it’s what I’m choosing to believe is correct at this point in my life.

    Yes you’re right I tend to have always looked at life and spiritual issues via the lens of my friend’s thinking. I should do the berean thing of course. Can’t say I honestly am/do much. Guess I’m learning my lesson the hard way. But I am getting to know scripture much better than I ever did though via the comments on here and from Pastor Arnold, so that’s something.

  573. So true Holly. If God gives people faith as calvinists believe, then why did he give some people in the bible a weak faith? Seems pretty self-sabotaging. God would have only ever given someone a perfect faith, if he did give it.

    I have noticed a lot of people like to make faith the object of their salvation, rather than Christ crucified. Faith only saves when it’s object is Jesus Christ.

    When I click the “Post Comment” button below, I TRUST that this comment will be submitted to this website. That is the same type of trust that saves a person. What God promised, He is also able to carry out.

  574. When I was a Calvinist, I was exposed to every order of salvation imaginable. I could not tell whether regeneration came first and it did not matter. It is now clear to me that a Calvinist thinks like a Sith.

  575. Jason, good news about your dad and Ron Shea’s booklet. Hope he’ll just desire more of the pure Word. When we get into the strong meat of His Word, our senses are better exercised to discern between good and evil. I notice that Arminians and Calvinists fight using cardboard and tinfoil swords. They don’t really use the Word of God, but men’s words who have arranged proof texts with shiny words to fight with. They honestly don’t recognize other Scriptures. Ask a Calvinist to share the gospel with you, it generally won’t happen. I have had it happen, and I was shocked, but I did tell him he left out the part where the Holy Spirit pre-regenerated the person to believe it. And how Jesus asked so many in the crowds to believe what He was saying and we know not all did, so why would He do that? Why would He call for them to ‘have faith’. Why would He commend someone for ‘great faith’ (if a gift from God then Jesus was giving the glory to the wrong person). Why would He chasten His disciples for being of little faith? Then again, He’s saying that God has done something that needs chastened? Assuming faith is the gift.

  576. Hobbs – we none measure up on loving Him the way we should. But part of our walk is the fact that we still have this sinful flesh, that we have to put off. Daily armor is really important in that.

    I think it’s o.k. to get counsel from others, trouble is, are we testing it according to what Scripture says. When someone tells you something, you shouldn’t be afraid at all to ask them where it says something in His Word. Ask them to send you some Scriptures. Look it up in context.

    The women’s Bible study I’ve been teaching for the past couple of weeks has been on positional sanctification vs. practical/progressive or ongoing sanctification. I realize that this study could be an awful long one if I let it, but we’re just looking at Scripture and asking, ‘is this already addressing believers?’ Is this addressing eternal life, or discipleship? Saved from what? Eternal death or consequences?

    Why did Jesus pray that His already clean (11) disciples would be sanctified with God’s Word? (Jn 17:17,19) Why did Jesus tell believers in chapter 8 (31-32) to continue in His Word to be disciples indeed?

    Basically the study I used to show others how to ask themselves, ‘does this speak to me being partially cleansed/washed, as in growing in maturity/discipleship? Or does this speak to the one time event of sanctification by His one sacrifice? (Heb 10:10,14; Rev 1:5-6). It helps clear up some of the difficult passages when you ask, ‘is this something a believer SHOULD do or something a nonbeliever HAS to do in order to be given the free gift of eternal life?’

    By the way when you ask someone to show you or answer something are they patiently laying it out with His Word? I usually ask if it gave me something to sow, or some food to eat (man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord). Does it settle on you like the Word says here? Does it accomplish the same thing? And no one should make you feel badly for asking someone to show you patiently in His Word, they should commend you (Acts 17:11).

    For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven,
    and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth,
    and maketh it bring forth and bud,
    that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
    so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
    it shall not return unto me void,
    but it shall accomplish that which I please,
    and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Is 55:10-11

  577. Jason, I am happy that you shared the booklet with your father and I will pray for him.

  578. Today I had an opportunity to give a copy of Shea’s booklet to both my mom and my dad. My dad’s case was interesting. Little did I know that my dad was wrestling with fruit inspection and had come to the conclusion that it was not of God.

    We were talking politics over Chinese food, and he mentioned the fact that Woodrow Wilson was a racist. I made mention of his religion. And that segued into the subject of the carnal Christian. I said that according to reformed theology’s definition of a Christian, that man was not truly saved. My dad said that was wrong and that Christians can do horrible things.

    So my dad no longer believes in POS. I told him about the MacArthur study bibles and that Calvinism is Augustinianism. Those facts were new to him. He is still hung up on election.

    When I showed him the booklet, he read the first two pages and knew it was on point. We reached a point of mutual understanding that I had not experienced in a long time.

  579. When I was a Calvinist, I leaned towards a TUIP view, with a free will paradox thrown in. I did not like the limited atonement at all. I stayed away from the doctrinaire folks. Hanegraaff had me convinced this was not an essential issue. I considered myself Protestant. I believed Luther was saved. I’m not sure now.

    I have heard that asking for salvation insults God. Yet the thief on the cross asked to be remembered and Jesus did not refuse him but gave him immediate assurance. How does asking for eternal life insult God, yet asking for faith is not equally insulting? Within that system, is not receiving the gift something God has decreed?

    The fine argument that once took me captive was that free will is a philosophy of man. Luther said so. He even attributed it to Aristotle. So much for that.

    As for praying for the dead, it could be rationalized as well. Or it could be argued that we should not pray at all.

  580. Jason, not even the Calvinists themselves can un-tie the Gordian Knots their system imposes on scripture. I’m still working on figuring out how they can be so sure that their system is correct and it can only be understood by the elect after regeneration (citing 1Cor 2:14) and they say they understand it yet are not sure if they are regenerated or of the elect because they have some preserving to do. I’m sure you’ve had the experience of after walking through step by step how they say the system works and they will agree as you walk through it and then when you make the logical conclusion they tell you “you just don’t understand”. I’m sure that asking for faith vs asking Jesus into one’s heart is just one of those things that they like to say we don’t understand.

    I was in conversation with a couple of them weeks ago and they totally affirmed that God has decreed (past tense) ALL that will come about. Then one said they pray to God that He will open my eyes to the truth. I asked if she was in the habit of praying for the physically dead. She said she was not. I agreed it is not a biblical practice and that the fate of the physically dead is sealed. I then asked if the decision that I would remain spiritually dead or be regenerated was made in eternity past (fate sealed) what good her prayer today would do. I asked “isn’t it a little man centered to think you have influence with God Who has already decided if I would be allowed to believe?” Turns out I just don’t understand the system…a sure sign of rebellion against God they tell me.

  581. Good point. I have never heard of Sproul et al criticizing the heart faith. They are invariably the ones who promote it.

    As for the asking, what about asking for the gift of faith? Since it is a heart faith, isn’t asking for it the same thing? Figure that one out.

  582. I am not a proponent of asking Jesus into one’s heart—this is not equal to believing in Him for eternal life. But for JMac, Sproul and others of the Calvinist stripe their opposition does not concern the heart but rather the asking. In their scheme the heart is vital but no one is capable of asking God to do something that He had not decreed that He would do in eternity past. Their scheme is heart centered. Asking is man centered. And that’s what they oppose. That’s really the only thing separating Calvinist LS from Arminian LS. They have the same premise; they make different deductions but come to the same conclusion i.e. that if one is truly saved they will persevere.

  583. There is a comment from two months ago on a Hank Lindstrom video, rationalizing the heretical teaching of asking Jesus into one’s heart. The defenses were numbered, systematic and pathetic. One of them was that the Bible consistently addresses the heart. This is true. But the Word addresses the heart to expose its unknowably deceitful wickedness and to exhort believers to walk according to the new heart that they were given. And not one of these addresses has anything to do with asking Jesus to enter. In none of the defenses given is the Biblical lack of distinction between the organs ever considered. The commenter hurls loaded language at Lindstrom, insinuating that he lacks understanding and implying that he never truly trusted.

    Even MacArthur does not go to this length to defend such language, because he knows that it confuses, and he wants to be clear that he believes in works to prove salvation. Sproul opposes it. I have heard people who are LS call it easy-believism. Such mumbo jumbo has been a disservice to both sides of the LS controversy and extremely useful to Satan.

  584. Hobbs, it is God’s desire that we grow in grace and He desires to teach us.

    God chastens (trains, provides instruction to) all believers, not just disobedient or rebellious believers.

    People respond to this discipline in a number of ways, some of which are appropriate and some of which are not. The most disciplined Christians are the ones who respond most appropriately to discipline.

  585. John, thanks for helpful comments.

    ‘We receive Christ’s imputed perfection when we believe in Him as Savior. Once we are saved, we do “measure up” in God’s eyes.’

    That being for salvation, but God still see’s our fleshly walk and may correct it via chastening etc. to help us ‘measure-up’ in discipleship terms, is that about right?

    It’s a relief to hear that not all saved believers necessarily love Christ. That would account for a lot.

    The bible says to believe in Christ to be saved, not love Christ to be saved. One tends to assume (or has been taught) that they are synonymous.

  586. Hobbs, the Bible does have standards – God’s standard is perfection. We receive Christ’s imputed perfection when we believe in Him as Savior. Once we are saved, we do “measure up” in God’s eyes.

    Incidentally, your friend said: …and that is why we love our Saviour

    My comment: Loving our Savior is not the same thing as believing in Him as Savior. Not all Christians love Jesus, and those that do, don’t all love Him all of the time.

  587. I had a friend once say to me something to the effect of ‘I know it sucks but the Bible is all about standards’. I immediately had that cold feeling of dread as he said it because I took it as ‘I gotta measure up, or else hell’ (this was before I got clear again on the Gospel).

    I’m still not measuring up much as far as I can see, so Grace is all I got!

    I’ve always been in awe of this friend, he genuinely seems to aim for very high standards in how he lives and treats people. Or at least that’s how I’ve always seen him.

    Ironically, he’s the reason I continued reading expreacherman. I sent him Jack’s ‘What is Grace’ article when I first read it back in 2015, wanting reassurance it was sound, and he came back that he agreed with it 100% and that Jack was absolutely right to speak out against Lordship ‘Salvation’. He concluded his email to me with ‘and that is why we love our Saviour’ i.e. because He freely died for us; no strings attached.

    Only problem is, I’m not sure if I’m really thinking for myself. It took someone else to verify the article and give me confidence with it. If he hadn’t approved it I would probably have just shrugged and gone back to wandering the internet again like a lost soul in torment.

    Lost ‘saved’ soul, that is.

    Christ paid for my sins!

  588. Jason, sounds like one to mark and avoid.

  589. *Five Marks

    It was much of the usual LS drivel. Cannot live in sin, the law applies, etc. A lot of but’s.

    One line that I haven’t thought of is that God calls me to a high standard. Without saying it, he has already implied that it is a standard that I must measure up to, or else hell. This is the problem with books like Jesus Calling. Calling to what? How about grace, eternal life, and a promise that only God shall perform? Usually, it is LS.

    Some other strange notions: the blood of Jesus transforms (infusion), demons escort the lost (with wrong definition of the lost) into hell.

  590. Jason, that’s a higher ratio of dislikes than I would have anticipated.

  591. A YouTube video “False Marks of the False-Grace Movement” has 600 likes and 300 dislikes. Since this is yet another lordship video, the 300 dislikes are good news. Even flat earth videos have had like to dislike ratios as high as 10 to 1. This video takes quite awhile to get to the point. But the title itself tells me they have a low view of Biblical grace.

  592. Jason and John, one person who used to visit here, a young man, was waylaid in private by this older woman on FB. She would put all these wonderful Pictures on her pages, with Bible verses with them, and seemed to be the model of grace. But behind the scenes she told a different story, preying on the week, and gossiping with those who were prone in that area, still those things seem to eventually come to the light.

    The young man who has now become a Demas, came to me about this woman using words like ‘real Christians’ or ‘true believers’ will or will not do certain things. I didn’t know at the time who the woman was, but I did tell her (as I tell all), tell this person to bring their doctrine to the light, if they really believe it to be truth, they should be proclaiming it out in front of all.

    These people sneak in, and they look for those who might hear them. They have lots of conversations in private, feeling people out and trying to draw away disciples. We know they can come from among us. That conversation you posted is just so much like whatever their do or don’t list is that proves they are believers. They forget their spouse, their family, their neighbor, their roommate KNOWS the type of person they really are. 🙂 More than that the Lord does, and if they have not believed that they are His apart from any works they have or will do, then they have not believed, and they are not the ‘actual Christians’ or the ‘true believers’ sadly for them.

  593. Jason, agree. Faith in Christ alone is how one receives eternal life.

    The writer of the editorial does not seem to understand that.

  594. Whatever that group is, it would have been appropriate rather to ask if they had a correct soteriology. Unfortunately, having a repugnant political view is possible for a true Christian, like every other conceivable failing.

  595. Holly, the part leading up to the quote that I gave said that anyone who held a particularly repugnant political view (I won’t list the particulars) was not a Christian.

    The exact quote:

    Good Christians do not believe this. At least not any more. The people who believe this are masquerading as Christians. Actual Christians strive to love our God with all our heart soul and mind and love our neighbors as ourselves…

    My comment: Fruit inspection 101. How could a “real Christian” have believed something 200 years ago and been a “real Christian,” but if they believe it these days they are “masquerading”?

    With LS, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

  596. How can I put this in just a very honest way?

    I didn’t at all strive to do that, I at times tried to please Him by doing good, but it was more because it’s what I was taught vs. doing it out of love for Him. I didn’t know how to love someone I didn’t know. As I began to know Him more through His Word, seeing His wonderful character, His great love for me, understanding to some degree the unfathomable thought of a God storing my tears, counting the hairs on my head, having precious thoughts towards me?… Those things were just the barely scratching the surface of our great God, and the pitiful amount of love I can show Him is unworthy, but it’s honest, more honest than I ever understood it would be concerning loving Him. It’s so much a part of the good news. Who He is. What He has done for us in such great love.

    Striving? Yes we should try to express our love for Him but it only comes because we first were and continually are loved by Him. I hope I worded that well, been kind of busy in paperwork/taxes, and trying to take a break from time to time in order not to be overwhelmed. Anyways, may the Lord bless all who come to read here, to take heed to the truth they will find, and to confirm it with His Word.

  597. The following line came from an editorial today in “The State” (Columbia, SC) newspaper:

    Actual Christians strive to love our God with all our heart soul and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves…

    My comment: According to this statement, no one could have assurance of eternal life unless he was consistently striving to love God with all of his heart soul and mind and to love his neighbor as himself.

    Christians SHOULD do these things. But, actual Christians are those who have believed in Christ alone as their Savior.

  598. Their were several OT blessings (think of the land that is still left to be fulfilled), but the blessing of eternal life (the just live by faith) has always been the same. Discipleship has been the same. People being cut off because of unbelief; the same. The difference we have that is wonderful is the taking away of sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

    We can quench the Holy Spirit, we can grieve Him (awful) but He will never leave us.

  599. Like, what is a soul? No math or physics will ever explain that.

  600. Keep in mind theese are physics professors we are talking about. The gentleman are so mathematically smart yet the simplest things can baffle them to no end.
    They try to explain away all interconnected details of what they are thinking and end up loosing what they were trying to say.

    I know there was a Time on the moderators would not allow outside links. Im now seeing the wisdom in that.

  601. Jason, excellent point.

  602. I notice that at the end of Revelation, it gets focused on believing, referred to as drinking freely of the water of life. I take that as a clear biblical statement that the gospel has not changed through the ages. The tribulation saints aren’t drinking any less freely than we church agers.

    Robert Herman has books, books, books about math, and poorly written.

  603. The Old Testament Blessings was by Obedience.
    The New Testament Or dispensation of Grace In Christ We Have been blessed with all Spirtual Blessings.
    Wether we allow the Holy Spirit to find fulfillment in the lives we now live yeilded to Holy Spirit through the Word of God .
    They are ours wether we enjoy them or not they are still yours.

  604. Agree with your points, John.

    Technically, they were not Jews until Jacob. I think it is likely that Naaman, Nebuchadnezzar, and the Ninevites who heeded Jonah were saved.

    Whitcomb may have been careless. I found his ideas about the tribulation interesting, but he got hairy at points.

    I can tolerate a wide range of views about temporal punishment, but salvation had better be left as is.

    If millennial sacrifices cover temporal punishment, but godly living suffices during the church age, that is a contradiction. The symbolic view does not have that problem.

    It is sad to see people going astray.

  605. Jason, I think Adam is in heaven, and I don’t recall his having converted to Judaism.

    Regarding the purpose of millennial sacrifices, I was of the belief that they were meant to be more symbolic.

    Regarding averting temporal judgment during the church age, you will likely get a wide range of views and opinions.

    The Bible says that, as believers, we reap what we sow. So, if we sow to the flesh, we reap corruption. That could include damages to relationships and health, loss of life and liberty, and so on during this lifetime, as well as loss of rewards in eternity.

    Last, following the teachings of the Apostles is not a requirement for eternal life.

  606. I am puzzled by a few people that have been associated with Radtke by the website. Radtke is well known by some of us, and I have no problem with him, in spite of the lack of a statement of faith. He solidly stands for eternal security.

    Charles Clough and John Whitcomb are linked on the site.

    Whitcomb has his own website, and his SoF is brief on salvation but long on Christian living. He teaches footwashing as a sacrament, and I find that troubing. In one of his messages, he mentioned being sorry for sins. Most puzzling, he is dogmatic about restored temple sacrifices. He is convinced that they are necessary to cover sins and avert temporal punishments. If so, what averts temporal punishments during the Church Age? He says that pre-cross and during the trib, one has to become a Jew in order to be saved. This sounds hyperdispensational. If one could believe God without becoming a Jew, belief would still be counted. Becoming a Jew required making a commitment to obey the law.

    Clough’s SoF, on his Bible Framework website, is vague on salvation. What Jesus did for us gets buried in a paragraph about Israel. Eternal life is not mentioned.

    Clough has mentioned the mathematician Robert Hermann. I looked him up, and I find his views controversial. His gospel presentation is full of his math references. Guess what? The math makes it extremely complicated. He literally thinks he can model God’s attributes, which I know is not possible. Hermann makes following the teaching of the Apostles a requirement for salvation, and that tells me he is LS.

  607. yeah confusing jason
    it seems like mystical legalism self inflicting righteousness setting on the high powered blend all with dull cutting blades.
    its just same ole works for and because of salvation.

  608. I think I figured it out now. It was difficult reading, lol.

  609. Jason, yes, very confusing.

    Perhaps it was a reference to Genesis 3:4-5.

  610. “…in who He is and in the words He speaks that first separated us from Him”

    That is really confusing. I thought it was our sins that separated us from him. The LS is heresy already, but this is icing on the cake.

  611. One from today:

    But, that’s why Jesus came: to offer us the chance to become who we were always meant to be: His pure and Holy child who loves God and one another with all that we are. It was not having faith in God: in who He is and in the words He speaks that first separated us from Him, only by having faith can we be restored to Him and receive the new heart and new nature that Christ died to make possible for us to have by repenting of our sins and asking Him to forgive and change us.

    My comment: repenting of sins is not a requirement to receive eternal life. Asking Him to forgive us is not a requirement to receiving eternal life. Asking Him to change us is not a requirement for receiving eternal life.

    This is an insidious false gospel message that has works as its focus. The errant reasoning is that if we “ask Jesus to change us,” and we don’t change, we weren’t sincere when we asked Him. No change, no salvation. So, our faith, in this errant view, is in Jesus’ promise to change our lives, rather than in His promise to give us eternal life.

  612. Jason, good question.

  613. Why aren’t they called the Works Coalition?

  614. when a soul Trust Christ Jesus as Their personal saviour all things Spiritual have been given unto them along with seal of Holy Spirit.
    Those “all spiritual things” are available to the believer wether they appropriate them or not
    live in the light of them walk in them or not.
    enjoy them or not.
    They belong to the believer no matter what.
    The Christian Life is lived by our relationship to Holly Spirit.
    it does not matter if a soul has not lived for Christ for 6 months or 6 years they can enjoy their spiritual blessings the same as one who is in fellowship by simply admiting (confessing that sin) they have not been.
    Spirituality and Growth are to remain separate in our thinking.
    when a soul thinks if i pray more go to church more, witness more, God will bless me.. That is solid works and the believer will never enjoy the Lord That way. Just like the unbeliever will not Trust Christ but must work their way to Heaven.

    ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    hath given unto us all things

    2 peter 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
    4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

  615. In my mind, I somehow had the Gospel Coalition confused with the Clear Gospel.

  616. I found the following on the website of a false gospel group known as “The Gospel Coalition”:

    Paul’s words show that there are practices and lifestyles that, if left unrepented of, can prevent someone from inheriting – that is, having a place in – the kingdom of God. To live as a Christian is to accept God’s authority over our own…

    Having said that, it is possible to sin in all kinds of ways in ignorance, rather than willfullly and knowingly. A new Christian might not know that they are called to honor their parents, or that lust is sinful. The key is that when they read in scripture that obedience to God means changing in these areas, they will work to do so.

    My comment: Nonsense. Turning from known sin is not a requirement for receiving eternal life. Nor does ignorance absolve anyone of sin. This false theology teaches that Christ’s atonement covers sins, but only those that are not willful or intentional. And, while they “work to do so,” how is this not works? What if someone realizes something is wrong and doesn’t “work to do so?”

    This is works for salvation theology, plain and simple.

  617. And many of them fall into GES, hyperdisp, KJVO, conspiracy theories. I have noticed dreiher2 videos lately, and he is GES.

  618. along with what Johninc said for myself personally unless youtube a preacher/teacher has a website doctrinal statement, a clear gospel presentation. Elder board and congregation i dont bother listening. for me if not have the above they all go wondering off into strange doctrines has been my experience…

  619. John, welcome and thanks for your question.

    I didn’t watch the video. I get lots of requests to listen to sermons and watch videos, and I generally cannot accommodate them. I also do not want to expose our readers to random material.

    If the video is a gospel video, and what the video teaches passes the following three tests, it might be true. Otherwise, no chance:

    1. Is it consistent with eternal life by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone?
    2. Is it consistent with eternal security?
    3. Is it consistent with assurance of eternal life, based on God’s promises alone (i.e., it is not internally-focused on changes in attitudes, behavior, etc.)?

  620. Any thoughts on some of the comments on this video? Any answers?

    (link removed by administrator)

  621. RAS – thank you, I think I needed to learn patience more than most. Still do. Thank you for your prayers for my family, you and everyone else who prays, it is very appreciated always.

    The lady that you are dealing with sadly doesn’t realize that although they claim they follow no man, they have learned their system of theology only from men and basically their family tree starts with men like Augustine.

    They don’t find their system in His Word as much as they claim they do.

    Again, I’m thankful for the fellowship of the saints here, it’s becoming mighty hard to find fellowship.

  622. More about the Calvinist movie…I hear you can’t get tickets even if you wanted to because they will be handed out randomly to people chosen before filming began. You might even have a ticket now but you may never know. Oh, and there is limited seating.

  623. Jason, oddly I’m seeing that (on the free pass) some, although I agree with RAS, I don’t think it’s going to happen too often. I think the truth is simply that error is going to find commonality with error vs. truth. Both of them are in error and we are not somewhere in the middle (as some claim).

  624. Holly, I am sure you understand more about patience than I. You and your son remain in my prayers. Jason, a couple of the people I am referring to will not claim the title Calvinist or even 5 pointer but are constantly talking about the “doctrines of grace”. The lady who accused me of being my own god constantly says she follows no man but she copies and pastes quotes from Pink, Gil, Spurgeon and others more often then she quotes scripture. And when she does quote scripture it more often than not says something different than what she thinks it does. I don’t think they would give a real Arminian a free pass all though I know what you mean…Calvinist “scholars” often call Arminians confused brethren.

  625. But these Calvinists seem happy to tell their Arminian brethren that Calvinism is not an essential. So why don’t we get a pass?

  626. Here’s what the majority of them think regarding whether you watch the movie or not. If you do not, you are likely reprobate. I’ve been told that because I don’t believe the tenets of TULIP are biblical, then I am a reprobate. This is basically what they do think, since as Spurgeon said (pp), Calvinism IS the gospel.

  627. Ras, why did I laugh with the patience comment?… I get it.

    I was raised in a home where my dad was a gentleman, and showed all of us how to be treated. He spoke up if someone spoke coarsely in front of us, opened the door for all of us girls on the way anywhere. He pulled out our chairs. My point is, that the secular world isn’t as vicious as the religious Pharisees are. But, take heart, there are onlookers, and these people aren’t discrediting you, they are discrediting themselves in the eyes of those who want to see, want to hear. You’ll not hear about all of it, but trust me, people watch to see if someone answers patiently, gently, using the Word aptly. And when our opponent is calling us names, they show their lack of wisdom or even godliness. They are mini-accusers of the brethren.

    Sometimes I tell them the job is already taken so perhaps they might use the Word instead of name calling? 🙂

    2 Cor 11:12-15, Keep it up!

  628. “I suppose by their logic, if I miss it, then it was God’s will. And, if I see it, then it was God’s will.”
    But if we be corpses floating down a river” according to theor system of thought logic cant know God’s will unless God infuses his will to see movie or not.
    Then there’s the problem with movies electricity and water. How is that going to work?

  629. I think they were predestined to give those thumbs up.

    And, I suppose by their logic, if I miss it, then it was God’s will. And, if I see it, then it was God’s will.

  630. I remember hearing about the Calvinist movie. I think I heard that Sproul gave it 5 thumbs up, Piper gave it 6 and Washer said if you miss this movie you better check yourself. Could be just rumors though.

  631. I recently got accused of being my own god and thinking I saved myself for being a “free willer”. What really set them off was when I pointed out that Reformed soteriology was no different than that of the RCC. It started with a 5 pointer appealing to Phil 1:6 to show that a “true” believer will not fall away. When I put the verse in context i.e. that Philippians was a “thank you” letter and the good work started was support of Paul’s ministry the name calling began. I pointed out that justification is not a work that is started to be completed later and if they believe it is then they really do have the same soteriology as the RCC. The floodgates of abuse opened wide (out right lies, misquotes, was even called an Arminian -Jesuit, anything to discredit me in the eyes of onlookers) along with the usual long list of proof text many like to copy and paste without reading a few verses in front and back of to get context. One thing I noticed, although I was already aware of, is that many think faith is a righteous act and not as scripture says counted as righteousness. This is why the hate free will (I prefer the term volition but…) and they think faith is the gift. Romans 5:18 says the free gift came upon all men just as the judgment came upon all men (all is the same group). If the gift is faith then all men would have faith but the gift is by grace salvation which is through faith (as it is in Eph). Faith is man’s responsibility it is not gifted. Because they believe that faith is a righteous act they think “free will” is self righteousness and therefore blasphemous. To be honest I’ve just about had it trying to reach some of these people even onlookers. I need more patience but don’t really look forward to getting it. Can we go home yet?

  632. Keith, someone posted a video (which I haven’t finished watching) but the beginning of the video has Sproul saying free will is blasphemy. These puffed up men…

  633. What most of those mean that contrast heart faith with head faith, or use the term mental assent, is basically a James 2 sort of faith. Keep in mind they of course read James 2 to say these people did not possess eternal life because they didn’t behave as if they had. They of course use the demons argument, of course they believe, they know Him. Like you said John, salvation isn’t offered to them.

    Those in James who were useless to others who needed help was a faith without any works. One that doesn’t demonstrate to others that they are walking worthy, not to be saved, or stay saved, but because it’s what we should do because of the great love He has shown for us.

    Many have difficulty with that passage because of the word justified. Justified unto what? Justified to whom? That helps a lot, because we can see they were already called brethren, brother, sister, beloved… they were also called other things that weren’t good names regarding their behavior. It didn’t mean they only had ‘mental assent’ but that they were hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. They needed chastised and reminded of what they should do and of what Jesus had done for them. These believers fought and warred, and lusted, and KILLED, and yet James said the SPIRIT dwelled in them (James 4)… Calvinists and load-ship teachers will try to say the opposite, even though the Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit states it in each and every chapter of James. I pray people start asking questions of the Lord as they read the Word. Who is this speaking to Lord? What is this about? What kind of salvation? (and so forth) and look at context…

  634. Keith, very good. It took me a minute, but very good.

  635. The thing that concerns me is that those who do not watch the movie to its conclusion will tragically deceive themselves into thinking that they’re watching the movie when they really aren’t.

  636. And you must make Hollywood your lord, by being a hardcore movie fan. You must commit yourelf to at least 2 movies per year, and that includes the future Narnia movies and the Left Behinds. And you must promote movies to all your friends and relatives. And you must worship Kirk Cameron as one of your heroes. OK, enough silliness.

    One of these days, they might make a movie about persecution. I wouldn’t be surprised.

  637. If you don’t persevere to the end of the movie, you never had a real ticket to it.
    Also popcorn WILL accompany a genuine ticket, and if not present then there was no real movie ticket to begin with, only a spurious one.

  638. Keith, I hadn’t heard of it, but I’m not surprised.

  639. Has anyone seen the preview for the new Calvinist movie? It seems that RT has become so popular that its adherents are using the arts to push the idea that man does not have the free will to choose to believe the gospel, but yet he apparently can choose to persevere in faithfulness and good works, thereby “proving” that God chose him to be one of the elect.

  640. Hyperdisp vs GES

    Hyperdisp = Paul only
    GES = John only

    This Robert Breaker guy says he is not a hyperdisp but he goes Paul only, with a hell threat. If you reject Paul, you reject Jesus. If you follow Jesus, you follow him into hell. He plays the You Are Damned game real hard. What a mess.

    The hyperdisp god abrogates his law and deceives his followers. That is a god I don’t trust.

    And why stop with Paul? One could draw another arbitrary line at 630 AD. The law is back on. The Church Age ended with the Migration. We are in the Mosque Age, lol. There are many ways to go nuts with this.

    The Biblical God fulfills his law and rewards his followers. That is the God I trust.

    Bob Breaker: I’m of Paul
    Bob Wilkin: I’m of John

    Paul: both Bobs are carnal

  641. I saw one of those “lockup” shows on TV last night. There was a man who was a jail guard who read a statement at the formal sentencing hearing of the man who had been convicted of murdering his brother. The convicted murderer was receiving a death sentence.

    The guard, in his statement, said that he and his family were going to have a big party on the day the sentence was carried out, knowing that the murderer was now in hell.

    My comment: It does not sound like the guard understands God’s plan of salvation. If not, I pray that he hears and understands the gospel so that he might believe and be saved.

  642. Jason, the Bible tells us that Satan tries to take away the seed that has been planted. False gospel substitutes and add-ons are one of the ways that he goes about that.

    Understanding and believing that eternal life is a gift, without cost or obligation to the recipient, is essential.

  643. I can’t help having thoughts about the SoF of my own.

    The gospel of John indeed often emphasizes belief and eternal life without explicit reference to other content. I think the reason is that many deceived souls already know the unmentioned content, and what they need to hear is that eternal life is free. A Roman Catholic already knows about the cross, as high Christology has been drummed into him. Give him John 3:16, and you have given him the gospel. Many know 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 but few understand that John 3:16 means exactly what it says, with no qualifications.

    Yet the Gospel of John as a whole includes the account of Jesus’ prayer, passion, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is a Gospel, after all. It includes the high Christology of John 1 as well.

    It is a promise, but not promise-only.

    Even if you give the complete gospel to an unreached soul, the one thing most likely to be misunderstood is that Jesus gives eternal life to those who believe him for it. It is the first area in which a wolf will confuse them. It is where I got confused.

  644. From GES Sof

    “Assurance is of the essence of believing in Jesus for everlasting life. That is, as long as a person believes in Jesus for everlasting life, he knows he has everlasting life (John 5:24 ; 6:35 , 47; 11:27 ; 1 John 5:9-13).”

    Now the above Statement under assurance from GES Statement of Faith. How could a believer soul know that they have eternal life as a present permanent possession sealed by Holy Spirit?
    They can’t know because it is based on their continual believing.
    We have eternal life because God’s Word says so and God cannot lie and his character can never be compromised.

    So what about a believer soul who ends up in a motorcycle accident with a head injury and doesn’t know which end is up. So according to GES sof they dont have eternal life because they do not know ?.

    see how much confusion this creates?
    head faith heart faith confusion.
    God is not the author of confusion
    God wants us to know.

    Assurance of salvation our perfect postion in Christ Jesus before the throne of grace never changes. That is were Growth comes from.
    Growth comes from appropriateing the gift of righteousness.
    That provision belongs to the believer who placed faith in Christ Jesus finished work whether they appropriate it or not their postion remains secure even though our relationship to our postion may change at anytime we are either Spiritual or Carnal the postion remains secure.

    Romans chapter 5

  645. Curtis

    You discovered a new species of wolf. Lupus decruciatus. The crossless bully.

  646. What is this Bob Wilkin week?
    someone following me around.?
    I was in a church were the gospel was not given but pulpit hammered away at sound doctrine and false teachers. yet no gospel given.
    How can i know sound doctrine without the Gospel?
    How can I know the Gospel without sound doctrine?
    Then was said to me I need to read a Bob Wilkin book?
    What the world does Bob Wilkin have to do with my eternal destiny?
    A Bob Wilkin book?
    Why should God let me into Heaven?
    because I read a Bob Wilkin book?
    How is the Christian life lived ?
    By reading a Bob Wilkin book?

    Then another church talking to pastor on phone after failure to clearly tell me how a soul is saved. said he is a Bob Wilkin follower and old school DTS calvanist.
    Found it interesting how gospel of grace tracts and reformed theology books were on same table.
    How does that work?

  647. Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

    How did you receive Christ Jesus?
    How do you Walk (live) the Christian life?

    Spirituality is in our thinking
    Spirituality and Growth separate

    Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 

    Application of The Truth of God’s Word the promises of God appropriated to experiences of Life produces exceptable works.
    everything in the Christian life that counts for eternity is provided and produced for us by the Holy Spirit..
    We Receive Eternal Life by believing what Jesus did was for you.
    The Christian Life is lived by our response to the Holy Spirit through the Word of God through the abundance of the Grace of God.

    The Holy Spirit desires us to Yeild. The Holy Spirit gets ahold of us in our thinking through the Word of God. We need only yeild collapse enjoy the Lord Jesus through His Word.
    The Written Word of God.
    The Living Word of God
    The Spoken Word of God.
    And The Holy Spirit will take care of all the rest by the Law of the Spirit rom 8

    Head Faith Heart Faith comes from the reformation debate Calvanism Arminianism what we need is a reformation from the reformation

    here for an example :
    a 0 point calvanist thats not an arminian
    a Non denominational Fundamental Evangelical Bible Believer Believing the Bible Teaches Eternal Security of The spiritual and carnal believer in Christ.

    That statement wipes out Calvanism and Arminianism.
    for neither Calvanism or Arminianism have a message for the Holy Spirit to use for souls to Trust Christ Jesus by Faith and know that A Soul receives the Free Gift of eternal life the moment they believe The Gospel of Grace.
    the teachings only can produce followers of a system of thought. A system of thought to compartmentalize scripture.
    Buying Book’s Book’s Book’s buy another book enter a program.
    Head Faith Heart Faith as an example.
    Faith and Belief are synonymous Heart and Mind are synonymous. It is the object of our Faith Christ Jesus.
    Thinking and Thoughts are absolutely essential for Spiritualy and Growth.
    The Spirit of God gets a hold of us in our thinking as we study the Word of God. At any moment we are either Spiritual or Carnal in our Thinking we are either for or against God. There is no middle Ground.

    another simple way to knock out Calvanism and Arminianism is ask
    How did you receive the Holy Spirit?
    both systems of thought would answer

  648. Those who build their soteriology on a fool’s argument are definitely not enduring clear doctrine.

  649. Thanks for the response.

  650. Jason, sticking with what is clear is a good approach.

  651. Wow, I never realized the confusion that these manuscripts caused. Even the KJV went with the Alexandrian texts, go figure. Drove the point about sticking by what is clear home.

    I found the reference to hominids humorous.

  652. gosoel = gospel, my bad.

    I will give it a read. I have never found an analysis that satisfied me completely. I always fall back on interpreting what is cloudy by what is clear.

  653. Jason, you might like reading the extensive analysis of this passage at Clear Gospel. You may have problems with the formatting. If so, select the section in which you are interested, copy it and paste it into a Word document. See below:

  654. I find it interesting that the vain fool is the same one who says that he will show his faith by his works if James shows his faith without works. This does not make any sense, unless James is aguing against both perverting the gosoel and being useless.

  655. Vicki, I think there is a difference between believing a set of facts and acting on that belief. The Bible tells us we are saved by believing the gospel, not by acting on our beliefs.

    I am very happy that you asked about “demon faith.”

    First, the Bible says demons believe there is one God. That isn’t the same as believing the gospel. It is simply monotheism. However, the Bible makes it clear that demons both recognize, and in certain cases obey, Jesus. See Matthew 8:28-32.

    Second, demons can’t be saved. Jesus did not die for THEIR sins. Jesus paid for the sins of Adam’s race, of which demons are not a part. Demons are beyond redemption.

    Third, the “demons believe and tremble” argument in James appears to have been the hypothetical ramblings of an imaginary vain man, or fool.

  656. I’ll have to think on that a bit, thanks. Questions: do you believe assenting to a set of facts about something is the same as acting on those facts personally? IOW, can one assent to facts on something and not act on it personally? Hope I’m making it clear. What about the devils? The Bible says they believe and tremble. What kind of belief would you call that since they obviously aren’t going to heaven. Thanks.

  657. I have had my own thoughts on the heart vs head thing. Many illustrations of faith are defective.

    Take getting in a wheelbarrow for example. Assent here is agreeing that the acrobat is able to roll you along the wire unharmed. Trust is getting in the wheelbarrow. If you agreed that the acrobat was reliable but did not get in, you had the wrong kind of faith. But this illustration is defective. Jesus is not asking you to get in a wheelbarrow but to merely assent to the gospel.

    Another example is crossing a bridge. If you assent to the bridge but do not cross, you get nowhere. Again, defective.

    The problem with these examples is that they all involve an active element. With the gospel, the trusting is in the assenting, and there is no distinction. He who agrees with the gospel trusts the Savior, by definition. The belief itself is the act of trust. It couldn’t be simpler. Adding works would not be trust.

  658. Vicki, welcome back! I am encouraged that you are still here.

    Regarding your comment:

    A person who hasn’t placed faith in Jesus for salvation has not excercised either intellectual assent (“head faith”) or heart faith. He simply hasn’t placed his faith in Jesus as his Savior at all. If someone believes the gospel, he will understand and believe that Christ died for HIS sins. That is, that the atonement that Christ provided is effectual for HIM. Believing the gospel means understanding and believing that it is for you.

    The reason I make no distinction between head faith and heart faith is because the Bible doesn’t.

    If there actually were a difference between “head faith” and “heart faith,” one’s assurance of eternal life would have to rest on his determining whether or not he had the right “kind” of faith.

  659. I haven’t posted in quite some time but feel the need to comment on something. Why do you insist that there is no difference between intellectual/mental assent and faith/belief? I’ll never get that because it’s so obviously false to me. I know the difference, I’ve experiences the difference. Bob Wilkin told me there is only one kind of belief and I seem to be hearing the same thing here. That’s just not true and it should be obvious that it’s not true.. There are plenty of people who will assent that God exists and even that Jesus existed and died for the sins of the world but they haven’t placed faith in Him for salvation. I’m sure you have an answer for everything worked out (I’ve seen a few novel interpretations of Scripture here) and may think you’re right about everything but I’m going to have to disagree with that. I’ve seen before how people manipulate the Bible to support a particular belief, especially among Catholics. And even if whoever decides whether this gets posted or not decides not to, at least one person will see it. I’ve been coming and reading posts though haven’t posted and I still find problems with some of what I hear here.

  660. Sadly, I have known a man who named the name of Christ and thought that poverty earns salvation. I had started to devour his books and stopped because I could take it no more. To him, economic improvement would actually be bad in itself. The best economic system in his view would be an austerity program. Austere, just like the monks. Oh, but they had such in the country of his origin. He railed against it, calling it Satanic. Figure that.

    I just want the simple gospel, because it saves. Neither behavioral nor economic improvements are automatic.

  661. Here is another, from a Washington Post article entitled “Christians are More Than Twice as Likely to Blame a Person’s Poverty on Lack of Effort.”

    A couple of the comments in the article, quoting a historian named Helen Rhee, were as follows:

    To the premillenialists, Rhee said, “The world is already lost. Things are going to get worse … The betterment of society is very intangible. You don’t know whether it’s going to happen or not. It’s a very difficult thing to do. You’ve got to just focus on what is important – that is, salvation if the soul.” That is, preach the gospel. Evangelism.”

    Saving an individual’s soul by correcting his personal behavior will do him far more good than fixing an economic structure, if the world is about to end anyway, Rhee explained. “They are being compassionate.”

    My comments: Possessing eternal life is infinitely more important than a person’s economic circumstances. So, any compassion without sharing the gospel is temporal.

    The writer’s understanding of how one receives eternal life seems to be confused. On one hand, she references the gospel. Then, she talks about saving someone’s soul by correcting his behavior. No one ever received eternal life, nor contributed to receiving eternal life, by making any corrections to his personal behavior.

  662. The false distinction was drummed into me so many times, ministry after ministry. InterVarsity, martyrs, Hanegraaff, his guests, internet forums. Heart vs Head.

    Herbert Armstrong said that Jesus died not to free us from the law but to empower us to keep the law. LS teaches exactly the same thing. I was never really freed from Herb until I came here.

    Back in 2000, I was posting on a forum on Black Voices, now defunct. It was full of lordshippers and pagans. I was repeatedly told to stay out of black people’s business, which I should have heeded. I was not reconciling anything. Creflo Dollar was popular. Hanegraaff was hated. I was part of the confusion.

    On that forum there was one lordshipper who called himself a prophet. He knew who was born again. He knew I was saved. I disagreed with his sin list and was reprobate. He promoted Stanley, taught eternal security. I said I believed. He called it lip service. I had failed my probation. He was wrong about me the first time. Some prophet.

  663. Bilateral contract salvation (aka “Lordship Salvation”) has become the false front for Christianity.

    Consider the following quotes from a June 29, 2016 article in The Atlantic, entitled “Just Another Sinner Born Again:”

    Evangelicals have distinctive ideas about what constitutes religious conversion, which they call being “born again.” To be born again, one must make a decision to pray, repent sin, and accept Jesus’s salvation. Most evangelicals look to such a conversion as the decisive mark of whether someone is Christian or not; some regard Roman Catholics and mainline Protestants who have not been through this experience as not really Christian. Being born again is a matter of the heart rather than intellectual assent or institutional affiliation.

    My comment: One doesn’t need to say a prayer or repent of sins to receive eternal life. Eternal life is receiced by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Anyone who has believed in Jesus as Savior is born again, irrespective of religious affiliation, or lack thereof. And, there is no difference between “intellectual assent” and belief.

  664. Jason, very good points!

  665. Chastisement inspection is no better. Persecution inspection is the worst. Causes martyr complexes. Inverts the cross, turns the atonement on its head. Speaks with a perceived authority of one bearing the marks of Christ and yet has the same effect as all other lordshipping. I see it all the time in promotions of organizations said to be supporting the “persucuted church”, essentially modern day “church fathers”. They have no clue what gospel they are dying for. The implied message is invariably: if you aren’t living like the martyrs, you are not truly saved. I personally labored under this deluded guilt trip.

  666. Fruit Inspection only causes Spirtual Pride, arogence or lack of assurance.
    Thats what happens looking at ourselves our walk instead of Christ Jesus and His Finished work.
    With lack of assurance as Holly said you can not know how to make deciples.

  667. Fruit inspecting on the outside may seem to work, but as Curtis mentioned, there is no perfection, so then what? And what may appear to be good fruit might be rotten inside (as in the false prophets of Matthew 7). And self-examination? (Always induced by mistaken understanding of 2 Cor 13:5). It just cannot every work based on works, since works can’t play a part in receiving the free gift of eternal life. They never seem to realize the irony. This is why people don’t know how to make disciples. They haven’t become disciples really, because they do not know the truth.

  668. Yeah and no matter how low I would set the standards of myself looking for fruit that still would be mickey mouse to God’s Standards which is perfection.
    I would have to admit failure failure after failure.
    We don’t live the Christian Life by trying to live the Christian Life.
    as believers God has given us the Holy Spirit. That does everything for us perfectly.
    Just as the Lord Jesus did not use His Devine Nature but Did the Father’s will apart from Him doing of His ownself.

  669. Following is an excerpt from a comment on another site:

    There is much of grace in James and I firmly believe grace alone saves and is not necessarily accompanied by works. Yet it is Christ’s will we produce “fruit” even “much fruit”. To have no fruit, especially after much time in Christ, is no doubt an aberration, a strong indication something is wrong…even a lack of true salvation through faith in Christ alone.

    My comment: So, should we examine our fruit (or that of others) to determine whether or not we (or they) have “a lack of true salvation through faith in Christ alone?”

    This is utter nonsense. This is fruit inspection 101. The source of assurance reflected in this comment is WORKS, despite the fact that the writer says that faith is not necessarily accompanied by works.

    The writer is speaking out of both sides of his mouth, and muddying the gospel in the process.

  670. All these people who speak of works truly have not examined their works. The ones that do, do it as the Pharisee in the square; “I thank God I am not like these sinners”, but if they actually considered their own thoughts, or imperfect actions. Evidently God grades on a scale in their case.

    Phil, I actually did have one of those guys one time who did recount his ‘works’. He talked about what he did for the poor, and how he gave here and there and fasted and prayed, etc. I was actually so instantly sad for him, it was like watching those hand puppets, the left hand telling the right hand what it was doing and the other one saying S’aright. 🙂

    These people though keep other believers from growing with the testimony of their own works. They don’t point people to Christ, but they point people to them. Then some point people to Christ and His Word. The simple needed things that people just aren’t getting. Christ and His Word.

  671. Yes God is always a perfect gentleman..
    God does not force a soul to accept the Free gift of eternal life by placing simple faith/believing in the finished work of Christ.
    many false doctrine teach inability to respond like a dead person. But that is false. We are created in the image of God with a free will volition to think and choose.
    “dead in trespasses and sins?
    if a dead person is dead as in a corpse how does a corpse aquire trespasses and sins?
    how does a dead person have a nature?
    how could a dead person be born?
    Ephesians 2:3

  672. To clarify my last statement: It takes a believer to do good works in the Spirit. The Spirit never forces good works in a believer, nor is it automatic.

  673. John, concerning your email comment. How many and which works does the Holy Spirit produce? This is what the legalists and LS’ers. used to ridicule we who actually hold with saved by grace alone thru faith alone. But they will soon change the subject if you ask them to give an account of all THEIR repenting, good works and changes in THEIR lives, and then ask them if they are sure they have done enough repenting of sins, changes and righteousness in their lives so that they God will accept and eternally save them. I would ask them based on their works if they are CERTAIN they are saved?? Are they certain they have changed their lives and are living righteousness enough to be saved.?

    If they ridicule me for believing OSAS by grace alone. I simply say that I am not saved by my repenting or forsaking my sins, or living a godly or righteous life. Instead, I am saved once and for all time because Christ paid for all my sins; that they were buried with Him, and I have been raised with him and have received all his righteousness and sinlessness as a free gift. My salvation, my justification is finished; it’s a done deal. Paul tell us in Ephesians 2 that we have already been raised and seated with Him (spiritually for now). But from God’s view we are already there in eternity. There is nothing we can add to Christ complete saving work. This is my answer to the faith + this or that LS’rs, and it shuts their mouths because they don’t have an answer for the complete, finished saving works of Christ.
    These LS’er, Calvinists or whoever, either don’t really understand the full meaning of the gospel of our salvation, or they are so steeped in their arrogance and pride that they have to show that they are one-up on the other guy. They want to show they are way up here and you are way down there. They want to weigh others down with works requirements, yet they don’t want to look in the mirror to see themselves to see if they measure up to the works requirement they place on others. Sound familiar? There have always been Pharasees with their false gospel ready to pounce on believers, and today is no different.
    Sure, I believe the Holy Spirit produces good works in the believer life, but these works are not a condition or requirement for salvation.

  674. Saving faith produces the works of the Holy Spirit in one’s life.

    This flawed line of reasoning means that behavioral changes for the better are the only source of assurance for eternal life.

    Romans 6:23 says the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. It does not say that the gift of God is positive behavioral changes through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    That is precisely why a personal testimony that centers in one’s changed life points people away from Christ.

    A believer who is walking in the Spirit will manifest the fruits of the Spirit. But, believers are exhorted to walk in the Spirit, so it is not automatic.

  675. The people James wrote to were saved by faith (James 1:18), yet some did not have works.

    It is possible for a saved person to be a hearer ONLY and not a doer (James 1:22)

  676. The Holy Spirit produces Faithfulness. Not saving Faith.
    the end of Galatians 5:22 should read Faithfulness not Faith.
    rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Without Faith it is impossible to please God..

    So how does that work if Holy Spirit produces saving faith?
    That would mean everyone goes to heaven because Holy Spirit makes no mistakes and looses none?

    It is easier than saving Faith.. Heaven is a gift to all those who believe.
    There is no saving merit in water baptism.
    water baptism is an identification principle of what has taken place Spiritualy.

    Why did Jesus get Baptized?

  677. The following comment came via e-mail to Expreacherman:

    “He that believes and is baptized”. “Faith without works is dead”. “Bear fruits in keeping with repentance”.. you are seriously misleading people to hell. Saving faith produces the works of the Holy Spirit in ones life.

    Saved by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone.

    My comment: Which works of the Holy Spirit does saving faith produce? How many? How soon?

    This commenter says he is saved by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, and yet he also claims that if someone does not have some undefined works in his life, he does not have “saving faith. This is completely contradictory. What is the source of his assurance? Christ, or the works that the Holy Spirit is purportedly producing in his life?

  678. Indeed, I noticed a lot of Spurgeon quotes, as well other questionable sources. Spurgeon is the “prince” of lordshippers.

    I browsed Middletown Bible Church before I came here last year, and fell into Zeller’s stinkin’ thinkin’.

    Some internet comments of the past questioned Lou’s stand against LS, and I can’t remember where I found them.

    I noticed that he is free with his use of bible translations, notwithstanding a KJVO leaning position. He even quoted the New Lordship Translation.

    I guess this is a double-minded, unstable man.

  679. jason, we are not comfortable with Lou’s site, due to his tolerance for Charles Spurgeon and George Zeller. Both Spurgeon and Zeller attempt to eviscerate the gospel.

  680. The gospel according to Lou Martuneac
    “However, Stegall’s tendency to downplay the centrality of 1 Corinthians 15 is still evident today from the fact that on his church website there is absolutely no mention of 1 Corinthians 15 in his explanation of the gospel, even though numerous other verses are cited. This is the classic patchwork gospel approach used to define the gospel. But if the definition of Paul’s gospel is based on a synthesis of many Scriptures instead of an exegesis of 1 Corinthians 15, the search for the gospel message becomes largely a matter of speculation and human opinion. Furthermore, such an approach creates more problems than it solves. For example, who determines which passages to incorporate into the patchwork gospel synthesis? What Bible passages make the cut and which ones don’t? Who determines how many times a truth has to be mentioned before it becomes essential to the gospel synthesis? And how is the authoritative number determined? What if there is disagreement as to which passages to incorporate into the gospel synthesis? Bob Wilkin poses several more valid questions to consider, such as: “which passages do we link? How do we know which passages give us one or more of the essentials? How do we know when we have found all of the passages and all of the essentials?”10 Another problem with the patchwork and partial gospel espoused by Stegall and Hixson is that it fails to explain the passages of Scripture which specifically include, for example, Christ’s burial in the gospel message…”

    Lou’s negative comments linger on several blogs on the internet and are not helpful. His unbalanced attention to one passage is hard to understand. His railings against Duluth are shameful. I had to mention this because I have noticed that he was once an active contributor to this site, and was helpful in dealing with the crossless gospel and GES. Men like Hixson, Rokser, and Stegall have been a blessing to this community of believers in God’s free grace, and Curtis and I have recently had a chance to meet up with Randy at a Duluth sponsored conference.

    Now I don’t know what problem Lou has with “synthesis”, comparing scripture with scripture. Classic doctrines like the Trinity have been exegeted this way. Understanding that God’s gift of eternal life cannot be added to is likewise clarified by numerous passages. Complicating the gospel with extra baggage is the very thing we try to avoid. Lou brings up unfounded charges of paganism and triangle worship against a fellow believer and causes division, which reminds me of a few obnoxious individuals who have personally tried to put me under the law in the past. This is another person to mark and avoid.

  681. Jason – if only we would really apply 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and Acts 17:11, along with 1 Timothy 4:16 and Heb 5:12-14, He will keep us as we continue in His Word (John 8:31-32; Luke 10:38-42). It’s a continual process to compare His Word according to men’s words (1 Cor 4:6).

  682. Jon,

    Jack also was extremely kind and patient with me, and I thank God for the beloved in Him. I was so blessed also to read Tom Cucuzza’s ‘Secure Forever’ book. I downloaded it to my kindle then was ‘stuck’ in a doctor’s waiting room for almost two hours, but what a blessing to read while I was there. Praying your father-in-law might still be affected by God’s Word which is plentiful in Tom’s book.

    The reason they don’t have discernment is spelled out in Heb 5:12-14.

  683. Hmmm, if Joel Osteen thinks God is too good to send people to hell, then why does he think God is not good enough to save people who don’t repent of sin? And where does he think the unrepentant of sin go? Maybe he just says it because he hears it said so much. Maybe he is as double-minded about hell as he is about grace.

    “Even people who are clear on the gospel who sit under false teaching are likely to have it rub off on them.” -johninnc

    I am a living example of this. Enough reform in name only theology rubbed off on me to wet a towel. Not any more.

  684. Brian, thanks for bringing this up. Yes, Joel Osteen has the same gospel as Billy Graham and other similar “works salvationists.”

    People often overlook this, while criticizing Osteen on other fronts.

  685. From what I have seen several times, Joel Osteen closes his sermons with a ‘salvation’ message for people to “repent of their sins” and “make Jesus Lord of their lives.” Osteen is often criticized for weak/incorrect theology in other areas, but his false ‘salvation’ message unfortunately passes under most peoples radar. It’s basically the same at then end of every sermon.

  686. Jon, it’s hard to say how some people can hear grace and works, side-by-side, and not seem to be able to tell the difference. I don’t know. Some people are just unable to come to grips with the fact that churchianity is often not real. Even people who are clear on the gospel who sit under false teaching are likely to have it rub off on them.

  687. I am very thankful to have found this website several years ago. It was not by accident I’m sure. So thankful to finally see and hear the gospel of grace in my early 40’s. Jack was very kind and encouraging to me, in spite of what a dolt I can be. It is so scary to me to think of all the people who need to hear the Good News and sit in “church” pews every week and never hear it. Or hear a false version of it. Grace is unmerited favor. Salvation is a free gift. Jesus’ death,burial and resurrection paid for ALL of my/our sins. Christ’s righteousness is credited to my account when I put my faith in Him. Eternal life lasts forever and once you are saved there is nothing you can do that will send you to hell. I never heard any of this in a Mennonite church or an Evangelical Free church,etc.
    I once shared Tom’s Secure Forever book to my Father in law and he said it seemed like good doctrine, but didn’t say much else about it. They continue to attend a Mennonite church. He has talked about head faith vs. heart faith. They now tell us they enjoy watching Joel Osteen pretty much every week. I just wonder why they don’t have more discernment?

  688. Jon, I agree with what you are saying, and rejoicing with you that you are out of the false teaching! I know you are very thankful for that. I’ve seen many use the word ‘obey’ never realizing in relation to the gospel it’s believing, (also see in Gal 5 – those who were hindered from obeying the truth). I am exceptionally thankfully lately as I see so many in deception on social media, seems to be growing by leaps and bounds.

  689. Johninnc, that’s how I understood it when you first commented 🙂

  690. Holly, I agree, John’s point was valid. Obedience to the gospel is Biblical. My point was that the chances of them meaning it that way was slim to none. I realize now he was not trying to give them a pass. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I am in an area in Canada with a lot of Mennonites(being a former one myself) around. I am not surrounded by Baptist’s so that is not something I can speak to. I think false gospels are damaging no matter who is promoting them. I am sure we all agree with that.

  691. Holly, I was equating obeying the gospel to believing the gospel, as in Romans 10:16-17.

    And, I do not think the Mennonites understand the truth. I do not give them the benefit of the doubt, anymore than I give Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon, the Southern Baptist Convention, or John MacArthur the benefit of the doubt. They all teach false gospels.

  692. Jon, don’t think John was giving the Mennonites credit (or at least how I saw it), he was just commenting they could be right in only one area, obeying the gospel = believing the gospel, and likely he was citing Romans 10:16-17.

    But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    I agree with you both, the Mennonites don’t understand the truth, they have added works to the gospel which is accursed.

  693. Sure, I’ll take any pointers I can get.

    The late Jack Weaver set all of this up, so I have been trying to keep up with it, although I am not very tech savvy.

  694. Maybe someone with programming skills could volunteer and fix the problem. Depending on the technologies, I could research how to move the reply box. This could involve simply moving a textarea tag in a HTML or PHP file.

  695. Brad, I’m not sure how to move the comment box.

  696. Getting too deep into anabaptist history is hardly a step above “church” history. There are lots of baptists who go deep into it. If the Mennonites are representative of the anabaptist movement, there is not much there.

  697. Wow Jon, the mind games being played in that quote are amazing. They are essentially saying “Eternal security is true, but is conditional upon a person’s actions”. In other words, your salvation is secure until you sin.

    These truly are the days of rampant apostacy. Satan is getting more and more subtle in his works for salvation messages.

    On another topic, seeing as the comments on this website have been reversed recently (with the most recent being at the top), can you also put the comment box at the top as well?

  698. Jon, I am almost certain you are correct as to their intentions. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

    And, the statement that you quoted doesn’t sound like good news to me either.

  699. Well John, I think they should have stated that belief and obedience to the gospel are interconnected then. Their statement was very open to interpretation. Knowing that most Mennonites believe you can lose your salvation(Arminian), I think you are giving them too much credit.
    Here is a very telling statement from an anabaptist website of what Mennonites believe: “The Scriptures teach that redemption is all of God, but salvation is conditional and based upon a conscious act of our will in the exercise of faith in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures also teach that a person who continues to exercise saving faith in Jesus Christ is secure. But when a person begins to neglect his spiritual life he will come to the place where he is not truly exercising saving faith in Jesus Christ. He may continue to say he believes, but it is only a verbal belief and not a conscious exercise of the will to live for God. That is all that saving faith is, a conscious exercise of the will to always do what we believe the Bible teaches. It is also obeying the voice of the Spirit in areas where the Scriptures are silent.
    When a person continues to habitually practice sin, he “ceases to be a believer” and is no longer a Christian. So the statement “The believer is eternally secure” is a correct statement. It is the definition of who is a believer that must be answered.”
    That is from an article titled the Security of the Believer. Doesn’t sound like Good News to me.

  700. Jon, that would be true, only in one sense: Obeying the gospel means to believe the gospel. Any meaning beyond this could be implying false works “salvation.”

  701. Not really an internet comment but a slogan I saw on a local Mennonite church sign. The sign said: “Belief and obedience are interconnected.”

  702. Jason
    we are all natural born legalist.
    bent towards the spirit of Cain
    Even the atheist by denying God have deified themselves as their own god

  703. Even my own thinking regresses if I am not careful. It is good news that receiving eternal life is not a process.

  704. Jason, there are quite a few out there who claim to teach against LS, while embracing one of the primary tenets of LS – “a true Christian will…”

  705. I even encountered a video that exposed “lordship salvation errors” and yet it taught one by quoting “works meet for repentance” out of context and teaching that the changed life results from getting saved. Even some who recognize lordship as heresy are not free of lordship.

  706. Yes, it is church of Christ John, but as we know, even though Loadship teachers may ‘say’ they don’t teach any works, it’s the same thing, these Church of Christ false teachers at least are up front about their accursed gospel although they don’t rightly handle His Word. The others are sneaky and don’t really say what they mean, and of course dishonest in handling God’s Word.

  707. Holly, 2 Corinthians 7 is a “go to” passage for Lordship “salvationists.” How is a nonbeliever supposed to muster up a Godly sorrow?

  708. Holly, it sounds like the false “Church of Christ” religion.

  709. Down in this internet commenter’s expansion of his corrupted gospel he says (just as I mentioned above – they use Scripture spoken to believers and use it out of context):

    Repentance then is produced by Godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10) which >>>leads to a change of heart and a change of mind, which is the beginning of a changed life… one that is dedicated to God.

    No, repentance in 2 Cor 7 spoke to believers, and the Word tells us exactly what their repentance led them to being saved regarding: what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

  710. John, here is another internet comment regarding ‘salvation’ that you might recognize. Interesting that we have more of a part in our salvation according to this internet comment.


    1. The great love of God for man (John 3:16)
    2. He gave His Son, Jesus Christ, as the Saviour (Luke 19:10)
    3. Sent the Holy Spirit as a guide (John 16:13)
    4. Gave the Gospel as “the power” unto salvation (Romans 1:16)
    5. Provided atonement by the blood of Christ (Romans 5:9)


    1. Hear the Gospel. (Romans 10:17, John 8:32)
    2. Believe the Gospel (Hebrews 11:6, John 20:31)
    3. Repent of past sins (Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30)
    4. Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:10, Matthew 10:32)
    5. Be Baptized (Galatians 3:27, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38)
    6. Be faithful unto death (Revelations 2:10)

    God has done His part; will you do yours?

  711. Jason, a guy had a sign, something like the ‘will work for food’ signs as my son-in-law and I left Home Depot. We had been staying in the area for several hours (after my visit to urgent care) so I could acclimate a little bit and give the medicine and 02 some time to work. So we had also had lunch/dinner, and he had run some errands. We both had leftovers from our meals, my son in law had ordered a sandwich, and had only eaten half. It was a clean cut, and so my SIL was scrambling for the food as I was going through my wallet for one of Tom Cucuzza’s tracts. I asked him, would you like half a sandwich, and his response was not happy, and he said, ‘well I guess’… He wanted money not food. I don’t think the Lord would have us giving out of guilt but out of joy, He loves a cheerful giver. It is a responsibility to be a good steward, and difficult when we have people asking us for money. I try to ask a few questions. Do I know their gospel? Have I fellowshipped with them? Do I feel comfortable giving if I have it?

    I still have trouble to this day, because I would give away the farm so to speak 🙂

  712. Oh my, our worst fears. How dare we be rich. Every time a bum asks me for money, thoughts like that have run through my mind. I have not always responded appropriately. The truth sets us free of such worries.

  713. We were watching a rerun last night of an old sitcom. The vignette involved a couple who had received money from the woman’s father under false pretenses. Upon finding that their friend needed the money for an operation to save the life of her dog, the couple decided to give her the money. The dialog went something like this:

    Wife: “Why should we give her the money?”
    Husband: “Because, if we don’t, we’ll spend forever burning in a lake of fire!”
    Wife: “Both of us?”
    Husband: “Yes.”
    Audience: Laughter

    My comment: Teachable moment. Many people have a works for salvation mindset.

  714. Right John… And what’s going to happen when it dawns on them that they maybe haven’t hated their sin enough?

    One lady said, “Our lack of interest and character qualities of the Holy Spirit, the fruit, is an indicator that someone is a pretender, they should be warned so they can choose Christ if they have only played the game, but never trusted Christ.”

    She also repeated this basically in another comment, but followed it up with the Matthew 7 warning for false prophets (they always seem to miss that, and miss the works justification).

    The problem is that people think they are born again but may not be, not because of their sin but because they are pretenders, they never trusted Christ that’s why they have no conscience toward their sin.

    Matthew 7:21-23 “21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”

    Somehow they know they never ‘trusted Christ’ because ‘they have no conscience towards their sin’.

  715. Holly, it also makes their assurance of eternal life rest on their consciousness and hatred of sin, rather than on the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

  716. John… it’s hard to keep up sometimes with the crazy comments out there, they seem to live to out-do each other. This false comment I saw today:

    “When we become born again Christ changes our hearts, we no longer want to sin, we hate any sin that we do and we confess to be cleansed. If someone remains in sin after claiming to be a Christian and has no conscience about it, then they were never born again.”

    I guess this is a person who believes Ananais and Sapphira were not saved, or that Simon (whose heart was not right) was not saved (even though he had believed). I hate these types of discussions, because it leads the person inevitably to accuse us of wanting to sin, or loving or sin, etc. These have no conscience about their pride, by their own standards they have accused themselves of being unsaved and literally should rip 1 Cor 5 & 6 also out of the Bible because surely an incestuous adulterer who wanted to sin, who didn’t hate his sin, his church friends didn’t hate his sin, perhaps none of them were saved? And if so, then these chapters have to be false (according to their own words).

  717. Curtis, good comment regarding mid-acts dispensationalism. I’ve been planning on writing something (again Lord willing) for quite some time. So much I have collected (including those wonderful Memes). I’ll take a listen to Dennis also. Thanks.

  718. Wow, never thought of that. So contrary to the loving God who gives eternal life.

  719. Here is one from today:

    Jesus of Nazareth (historical and proven, not at issue here) said he’d rather have someone hot or cold (believe or clearly not believe) than someone lukewarm. I agree with what he said. I think it’s more respectable to be an honest atheist than a Christian in name only. I respect Christians that sincerely believe and try to live it. I respect honest atheists and agnostics that are upfront about not believing. I don’t respect people who say they believe one thing and live out another.

    My comment: Jesus did not say that someone who is cold is someone who clearly does not believe.

    Revelation 3:15: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    If this had to do with whether or not someone was a believer, Jesus would literally be saying that He would prefer they be a non-believer (that is, that He would prefer that they go to hell!). That is one of the crazier notions that I have ever read.

  720. Marxist buttons, anti-marxist buttons? What’s the difference? Dominionism is liberation theology from the right. None of it is liberating. Can it really be that 95% of churchianity is bethel church and the majority is truly conservative?

  721. all them news anchor talking heads if they don’t in someway get your blood pressure up by pressing your buttons they feel they have not don’t their Job.
    I get a kick out of the conservative talking heads busting on passed adminstration Now that we have a rule of Law trying to get re established a Conservative administration . Now they find themselves flatfooted how quickly they start digging up dirt again saying nothing positive. I don’t listen to any of them.

  722. The guy who was tickled by Obama is Chris Matthews. I used to listen to Mark Levin (the “Grating” One) make fun of him, along with Nancy Pelosi.

  723. below is a teaching link on hyper Dispensationalism or Mid Acts dispensation . Most souls (myself as well) coming away from legalism and end up swinging all the way over into License , mysticism , Gnosticism . It is easy to do and fun to enjoy such freedom. However there is balance to scripture with No contradictions in scripture. There is very little information that disputes Mid Acts dispensation (youtube is loaded with mid acts dispensation teaching) and many go unnoticed among Free Grace . Im not questioning someones salvation (Justification) However I do and believe the scriptures warn us and tells us to avoid and shun false teaching, Prove all things ,. Study our workmanship, be a Berean. If you found this thread looking for more information about hyper dispensation or Mid Acts. Welcome. but please see the statement of Faith here at expreacherman and The Clear Gospel Booklet .
    1 point of many if i may that refutes Hyper Dispensation
    Romans 16:7
    Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

    who also were in Christ before me.
    “who also were in Christ before me.” this is Paul speaking of those also in Christ before him.
    Now were those in old testament redeemed ? Yes
    Were they in Christ ? No
    Was Paul redeemed ? Yes

    There are several other points in below teaching that refutes Hyper Dispensation , Mid Acts.

    20 – Dispensations 17 – Hyper-Dispensationalism: I Am Of Paul

  724. John, every time I see these comments made by the press, I think of the one guy who got chills down his leg with Obama (don’t want to put the specific words to it). They haven’t a clue what saves, and Who is the Redeemer. They aren’t acquainted with the only Mediator, and they clutch those beads in the hope (and multiple prayers to mostly Mary), that they are ‘in’. I hate it, but I hate the idea of people losing their soul for all eternity because of these false traditions of men.

  725. Jason, I ‘think’ Michael’s book is linked here, and if I remember correctly his email is on it. Not quite sure. He has come and commented here a few times too.

  726. One sins pompously, the other sins ascetically. They both sin. One sinner cannot redeem another. Christ will save both if they only believe. The worldly media teaches heresy hilariously.

    The Ave Maria can be listened to on Youtube. People think that is beautiful because it is in Latin and has pleasing melody. It has been covered in classical music so many times. It is an age-old lie. Jesus already prayed for us sinners in the gospel of John, a few days before his passion and crucifixion.

  727. From an editorial in today’s “New York Times” entitled “A Prayer for Donald Trump”:

    Regarding Trump’s scheduled meeting with Pope Francis:

    One of them is splenetic. The other is ascetic. One sins. The other redeems. Cue the metaphors and clutch your rosary beads.

    My comment: The Pope cannot redeem anyone. Christ is our redeemer.