The Gospel According to Internet Comments

The false gospels that pervade our churches are reflected in comments that show up in response to articles on the internet. Whether the subject is moral, political, or religious, “defenders of the faith” can be counted on to respond with their versions of how people can receive eternal life.  I have rarely seen anyone who gets it right.

Following are some examples that I have garnered over the past few months. The comments are in italics, and my responses are in bold:

Jesus Christ, the Son of God loves you! As a matter of fact He loved you soooo much that He came to Earth and lived a sinless life and died on the Cross for your sins and if you Repent of your sins and accept Him as Lord and Savior, then you will be saved. Jesus Christ loves you! 🙂

 My comment: Repenting of your sins is not a requirement for eternal life.

…I have a changed life and heart after turning my life over to the god of the universe. I struggled for 20 years to obtain these changes to no avail. His word did the work that I could not. If you really want proof I can tell you how to obtain it, but you have to really be serious. If you are joking around it won’t work. If you really want to know and if God is real and He proves it to you will you give him the rest of your life? Will you make Him your God? If you are serious, God says that when you seek him with all of your heart you will find him. You must be willing to give up everything. If you are willing He will answer you. The God I serve cannot lie. Willing to take me up on it? I will lead you every step of the way.

My comment: We are not saved by giving God our lives. We are saved by believing that Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, died for our sins, was buried, and was raised from the dead.

 It is also clear that there are those who don’t like rules, don’t want to be judged, and want unconditional forgiveness. Jesus didn’t say there wouldn’t be any rules. Jesus said “if you love me, keep my commandments.” So I can understand why some would want to call me a hypocrite for pointing to the commandments. Because it causes people examine their own faults. But the bigger picture here is that Jesus paid the price for sin. He didn’t take away the rules, but He paid the ransom for breaking them if we abandon our lawlessness and follow Him. To all sinners, there is forgiveness, but it wad bought with a price, and we must repent of our sins, abandon them and walk in the light. We can’t have it both ways. We can’t serve two masters. We can’t live in sin and live for God. True Love is Jesus dying on the cross for you while you were yet an enemy of God and extending peace to you if you will surrender your life to Him and follow Him and deny yourself.

My comment: This is full of errors. We are not saved by surrendering our lives to Christ, nor are Christians under the law.

 doesn’t matter if the muslims love and follow doesn’t matter if ISIS loves and follows Jesus or angels.if either group is not saved and have not repented for their sins all of the above groups are lost in eternal hellfire.without accepting JESUS as LORD and savior NO ONE can be saved according to the bible which IS GODS is simple really,do you believe Jesus is the son of GOD and do you believe he rose from the dead for the remittance of sins? just pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you and forgive you of your sins and GOD promises in his word you WILL be saved.this is the ONLY way to heaven.see Romans 10:9,10,11,12

 My comment: We do not have to repent of sins to receive the free gift of eternal life. Jesus is Lord – we cannot make Him Lord.


The Bible says that we are saved by grace, through faith in Christ

Ephesians 2:8-9:

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you are a “defender of the faith”, but have never received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, click here:  The Real Story

1,424 responses to “The Gospel According to Internet Comments

  1. I am just so reminded every moment it seems of a similar blindness between the religious and those of the world right now regarding the forcing of vaccines. It’s a similar attitude of I don’t care, I’m right, and if you need forced, so be it, it’s for the ‘greater good’.

    The style of ‘discussion’ is the same. The attitudes are the same. I don’t think everyone is blinded just because they got a vaccine. I have close friends who did. An older believer who did before he found out more. A couple who are missionaries (and his wife is in the hospital with clotting and stroke). It’s upsetting because of what I suspect in them and even my friend with encephalitis of the brain. So I pray. I pray they won’t run to go get a booster. But if they have a pastor like the one on the other post here (I’d take 3 more) it’s likely…

  2. Hobbs, there are also some very direct affirmations of their having believed the gospel, including:

    Galatians 1:6: I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:


    Galatians 3:2: This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

  3. johninnc, thanks, I forgot about the reference to ‘brethren’.

  4. Hobbs, the believers of Galatia are referred to as “brethren” throughout Galatians. This is contrasted with the “false brethren” who had led them to the error of going back under the law in Galatians 2:4.

    I didn’t really detect manipulation in the comment, but I think constant “examination of true motives” and “soul searching” can create unhealthy introspection. When we find ourselves comparing ourselves to others, or even to our previous selves, for evidence of relative virtue, we are likely on the wrong track.

  5. johninnc, I see, so they’re using fear coupled with an appeal to fleshly pride.

    I did notice in that guy’s comment that he didn’t want to take the next ‘logical’ step and consider that some may have never believed in the first place, not just that they could slip into legalism. But it also occurred to me recently to wonder if Paul in Galations ever makes that distinction with those early believers? That was something I wanted to ask here at some point anyway.

    So, did you detect some manipulation in that comment and does this last paragraph from the same message perhaps confirm your suspicions?:

    ‘Being serious about following Jesus means we will carry out some serious soul searching that should result in the unlocking of the legalism that can chain up our heart. It exists in us all and if allowed to go unchecked will spread and create pharisees rather than disciples’.

  6. Hobbs, it’s an interesting comment. We have a case study, in the COVID crisis, in how this fleshly desire can be manipulated. Profile pictures of people in masks on Facebook and Twitter were ubiquitous for a while. People label those who won’t engage in COVID theater, or who don’t want to take the “vaccines” as “selfish.” These are real-life examples of virtue signaling gone mad. The evil people who have stolen/are stealing our freedoms knew that fear alone wouldn’t sustain the public behavior they wanted, so it was paired with virtue signaling.

    No one becomes a Christian through legalism, and Christians who fall into legalism are seriously off-track.

  7. I thought this was a good comment:

    ‘Legalism as it is more commonly known, is the desire to be holy through your own effort, not through receiving God’s unmerited grace and gift of righteousness. It seems to offer something that is hugely attractive to all humanity, a way of earning acceptance and holiness by doing good things. Most religions are based on this concept.

    Jesus has none of it. He exposes legalism as a fraud. He reveals it leads to death not life, to an obsession with behaviour rather than an examination of true motives, to pride, secrecy, and ignoring the heart of God. It also doesn’t make you right with God, however much it seems that it does. This can only be achieved by humbly receiving God’s mercy as a free gift though faith in Christ alone.’

  8. Jason, that’s an interesting observation.

  9. There is nothing conservative about LS. It is worse than CRT: “if you are a believer, you are automatically fake”

  10. Hobbs, way back we talked about God’s promises, and that people think they are conditional. It’s very sad, but they take the blame off of God by putting it on the people who didn’t ‘endure until the end’ or who ‘went back into the world’ or ‘walked away’.

    It was great to get to understand the difference between bilateral and unilateral covenants or promises. Eternal life was always a unilateral promise, and made with God, Jesus and the Spirit, while Abraham was asleep, he had no part in it. That’s why He says, I swore by myself and there is no greater.

    Knowing those things gives me great confidence, in Him, none in myself.

  11. I spoke to Ron in April. I have no reason to believe he’s not still doing okay, but that’s only because I haven’t had any contact with him since then. I pray for him every day.

  12. chas, I haven’t heard from him for awhile.

  13. Johninnc… I’ve been wondering about Ron Shea as well, especially since there doesn’t seem to have been any updating of his website for a while now. I hope he’s okay.

  14. Holly, I agree, changing our minds about what/who we’re trusting in rather than trying to change our behaviour is what the Bible says we must do to be saved. It’s made that simple.

  15. Holly, I have prayed for Ron as well.

  16. FryingPan – I laughed too. Sometimes I just smile at the funny little statements, probably meant seriously at times, but it’s truth.

    Johninnc – good answer too from Ron Shea. I wonder how he is doing. I have been meaning to give him a call. Praying for him too.

  17. Hobbs, I’m glad you emailed your friend that clear comment — completely true, it’s a deception.

    In your friend’s concession, it sounds actually like he missed your point. We know it’s God’s grace that brings salvation, but turning from our own ways won’t help and he left that it. Maybe better worded, changing our thinking about what we believed previously (which was wrong), unto believing in the truth. Who Christ is, and what He has done for us.

    I think on what the religious Jews needed to repent from (think not). It wasn’t because they were Jews they would be children of God (Matt 3, but Jesus said; think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    And the Gentiles (Acts 17) needed to think differently – repent (change mind), regarding their false gods being able to save. These were not going to be what they were judged by, but by the man Jesus, the ordained one, who was risen from the dead. That was who they better put their faith in.

    Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

  18. johninnc, yes, John 5:24 – no mention of turning from sins or giving ones life, simply hearing and believing to be saved forever. Amen. Thanks.

  19. Hi Chas,

    I understand it’s a serious issue, but I laughed out loud at your closing comment about grasshoppers.

  20. Hobbs, it is great that you have taken a bold stand for the gospel with your friend. That can be intimidating, particularly if it is someone with whom we are very close.

    If you broach the topic with him again, it might be to talk about it from the standpoint of what the Bible says is our basis for assurance. John 5:24 is a good place to start. Ron Shea has a brief questionnaire in “The Gospel Booklet” that reads as follows:

    According to this verse (John 5:24), how can you be sure that you have truly been saved?

    – You can be sure that you have truly been saved if your life begins to change, showing that God has really come into your life.

    – You can be sure that you have truly been saved if you bear the fruit of good works.

    – You can be sure that you have truly been saved if many years from now you are still walking with Christ.

    – You can be sure that you have truly been saved if you heard the gospel and believed it.”

    Since the only correct answer is the last one, that would mean that including any of the other (or similar) concepts into how one receives eternal life would undermine the gospel message.

  21. My friend’s church had this on their youtube channel:

    “We say the Kingdom of God is at hand and in us and invite all to turn with us from our own ways and follow the righteous pathway of Jesus
    Christ into abundant and eternal life.”

    So I emailed my friend to say: ‘I don’t think it’s following a pathway of righteous living that leads to eternal life. That’s religion. That’s how religion says you get eternal life, and it’s a deception. The good news of Christ is that salvation is a free gift, by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Not of works.’

    He replied that he had now added ‘By God’s grace’, so it now reads: ‘…invite all to turn with us from our own ways and receive by God’s Grace the free gift of salvation and righteousness into a new, abundant and eternal life.’ So he seems to concede there was some error there.

    But… it still makes turning from (sin) a prerequisite to receiving grace. But that’s the whole point, God saves us freely despite our sinful state, or noone could be saved.

    So that’s the next obstacle, broaching what I see as a further error. I just feel so awkward doing all this, but guess I may just give it another go sometime.

    To be honest, it took me two weeks to ‘dare’ read his reply as I was nervy about hearing a rebuttal that may undermine my own confidence in grace.

  22. Chas, these people most definitely have it wrong.

    To them, they said ‘it is not enough…” and then they add their own works or unbiblical lingo. Or combine discipleship with the gospel.

    It angers me too more and more, and frustrates me with those I know who want to argue for it being ‘no big deal’ or ‘nitpicky’. Why can’t they find these things in Scripture, but are willing to defend them, possibly being guilty of bearing with the ones who corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Cor 11:3-4). They think they are too ‘spiritually mature’ to be deceived. One who told me that, I explained that Paul warned the ‘elders of the church in Acts 20:25-32’, and pastors such as Timothy, so what made her feel like she was more mature than them.

    But they do…

  23. Today I had a conversation with a man I did not know initially was a professor of theology, got his doctorate from Notre Dame, and wrote a book. It was in a dispensationalist group I was added to. I assumed he was just a Calvinist who dropped in to hassle others, and engaged with him. I looked at his page to see why this man was so wise in his own eyes. And terribly sad because he’s somewhat younger with a family. And he’s jeopardizing all of them. I looked at his book on Amazon. Wow. One of the guys praising him shared this from Matthew Bate’s book.

    In fact, he goes so far as to drop this bombshell in the opening pages: “English-speaking Christian leaders should entirely cease to speak of ‘salvation by faith’ or of ‘faith in Jesus’ or ‘believing in Christ’ when summarizing Christian salvation. For the sake of the gospel we need to revise our vocabulary” (p. 3).

    Totally accursed…

  24. Chas, wow, 1,400 comments!

    False gospels infuriate me as well, particularly the “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late” variety.

  25. I see this thread is up to 1,399 comments. I may as well make it an even 1,400.
    Today I came across an article on a site that was linked from a conservative news site I visit daily, about the swarms of grasshoppers moving about the western U.S. The site associated the infestations with the End Times, and had a “Gospel” page, so I checked it out. After considerable scrolling to get to the point, there was this:

    “But it is not enough just for you to intellectually know that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins.

    The Scriptures tell us that we must individually commit our lives to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. When we give our lives to Jesus, He forgives our sins and He gives us eternal life…

    Some Scriptures quoted were John 1:12, 3:16, and of course Romans 10:9. Even Eph. 2:8,9 was quoted, all in the midst of arguing that one must “give your life to God” in addition to simply believing in Jesus.
    I dunno what it is, but that kind of… stuff just infuriates me more and more as time goes on. How in the world does anybody maintain the need to “give your life to God” to be saved in the face of Eph. 2? IT SAYS THE EXACT OPPOSITE! I had to calm down before posting a response. Eventually, I posted that nothing is required to receive eternal life except simple faith in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. (Anyway, that was the gist of my response.) I also “mentioned” that anything else is a false gospel.

    We are certainly approaching the time of the end, but it has little to do with grasshoppers.

  26. Thank you John.

    Sometimes it’s a matter of knowing when to quit, but always a matter of redeeming the time and keeping grace and salt in my speech. Not sure either has ever understood the gospel of grace.

  27. Holly, it sounds like it. I have prayed that you would have the right words and approach with them, and that both of them would hear and understand.

  28. Johninnc, good advice regarding those teaching the false gospel. I’m dealing with one now on FB, she is an older woman, and I would love to see her recovered, but she’s pretty confused, and yet not altogether unwilling to hear ‘some’.

    Another one is saying we have to keep the law, so it’s been a bit of a conversation with both on my page.

  29. Holly and Katmazdobelieve, I agree that what comes out of peoples’ mouths as it relates to the gospel is revealing. We should judge whether or not it comports with the gospel. If we hear a sour note that undermines the gospel, we have an opportunity to present the gospel in a way that deals with the person’s spoken misconceptions. If they persist in undermining the gospel, we should mark and avoid them.

  30. Katmazdobelieve.

    I do believe we judge fruits in the respect of what comes out of their mouths. It’s helps us know who to mark and avoid, and also who needs to obviously hear the true gospel.

  31. Chas

    How fearless they are to twist God’s Word. Never once was being ‘qualified’ for eternal life said. The free gift of qualification? Wow.

    And of course, they believe THEY will endure until the end. I’m afraid they may have a chance to find that out (meaning, they’ll possibly see the Tribulation if God is willing to give them another chance).

    It goes without saying I hope that if they once believed they are just bewitched.

  32. katmazdobelieve

    Sharing the gospel should be the only remedy.
    I know in my LS days there was a disgusting satisfaction of feeling superior while accusing others. God straighten me out on that though. I no longer judge people based on their behavior but I do judge the words that come from their mouths.

    I saw someone use that verse against the evils of pedophilia. I thought to myself that that wasn’t what was meant. Christ’s concern was how a man would be saved. He wanted us to rest in him alone. He wants people to believe on him alone for salvation.


  33. Katmazdobelieve

    I cringe when I see that stuff. The one verse that always comes to mind when these people are busy potentially accusing saints is this:

    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matt 18:6

    I know some think this just applies to children, I think it applies to young ones who believe in Him also. So, I wouldn’t want to be these people.

    If someone is concerned that someone may not be saved, isn’t just sharing the gospel with them the remedy?

  34. Chas, interesting. In addition to the things you mentioned, there is the reference to enduring to the end. I suppose that’s how this guy thinks one “qualifies.”

  35. Here’s one I haven’t heard before. While watching a video by a guy who calls himself “a Christian patriot”, I was treated to this ditty:

    “So what do you have to believe? Simply this: That God so loved the world, that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes that Jesus Christ died to pay your sin debt in full… anyone who believes that is born again. And if you’re born again, you are qualified for eternal life. Bear in mind that only the one who endures to the end will be saved. And I also said you’re qualified to receive the Spirit. Separately, you can–literally–receive God’s Spirit; the promised gift, to live inside of you.”

    Now wait… by believing, we’re qualified for eternal life? My Bible (NASB) says that when we believe, we HAVE eternal life. The Spirit indwells us immediately upon belief. The indwelling of the Spirit isn’t something we receive “separately”. It’s amazing, the varieties of false “gospels” that are out there, even among “Christian patriots”.

    One interesting thing; at the end of his “gospel” presentation, he gave an appeal for financial support that almost made me flash back to my TBN days. Classic pattern of manipulation.

  36. katmazdobelieve, that’s quite the bold statement, and it is demonstrably false on at least two levels.

    First, no one can know whether or not someone else has eternal life, although the person who made this comment is testifying that he doesn’t believe what the Bible says about how to have eternal life.

    Second, receiving the free gift of eternal life is not conditioned upon surrendering one’s life to Christ’s Lordship, or letting Jesus run one’s life.

  37. katmazdobelieve

    I saw this one today…
    “I have found that 99% of people who say they are “Christians” are not born-again saints.
    They will not surrender their life to God the son Jesus Christ’s lordship.
    They run their life and say ” I believe in Jesus”.

    So sad that people are deceived. It is even sadder that the person that posted this is probably not saved will putting qualifiers on people and while condemning them. More and more repeat the lies of LS.

  38. To be a Christian is simply to be in Christ (saved). So it’s not a label because it reflects reality itself for saved people. That’s why Trump specifically calling himself “non-denominational” really stood out to me. There’s heaps of labels he could’ve been under, but instead chose none of them and just used Christian.

  39. Brad, I know you are against group-think, as your long comment history demonstrates.

    We agree that neither Calvinism nor Lordship “salvation” are consistent with scripture, and that both undermine the gospel. We also agree that the pre-tribulation, pre-millennial rapture is scriptural, and that all members of the church (body of Christ) will be raptured.

  40. For faith plus works to work, the bible would have to be consistently specific, to a tee, exactly how many sins a person must not do, or is allowed to do through the course of their entire life. That would expand the bible to be much much bigger to say the least. It would also introduce and retain a level of doubt in the person about their salvation or lack thereof.

    The logical sense behind faith alone is that it is the only doctrinal belief that allows for a person to have an absolute guarantee of their own salvation, which allows for zero amounts of doubt being able to gain any foothold.

    Like with the pre-tribulation rapture. The only ‘blessed hope’ view of that whole doctrine is that the saved are rescued from experiencing all the bad that the tribulation period will bring.

    Works for salvation just creates, builds and then enforces in a person’s mind; “I’m not done yet”. Meanwhile Jesus said “It is finished” over 2000 years ago. Very ironic.

    Calvinism is really sinister, taking works for salvation and twisting it into “no we are for faith alone, but our works will prove our own faith”, so then all view is shifted from Christ’s work to their own work, while still declaring outwardly faith alone for salvation.. This is probably about where the belief of “all the good works I do are not done by me but by the Holy Spirit”, it’s not a far stretch of the imagination to think people like this basically see themselves as puppets of God. All just to find the full assurance in salvation they never quite fully find even though it’s right in front of them.

    Plus for those who do believe that the Holy Spirit is fully responsible for their good works, then what about the sins they commit? Deductively they would believe in the converse view that those sins are the Holy Spirits fault too. But then comes the convenient fallback of “no all the sins I commit are my own fault”.

    Sadly for some I suspect it may actually turn into “the Holy Spirit is responsible for everything I do, good or bad”. If indoctrinated deeply enough it’s amazing that it is possible for a person to be actively blaming God Himself for the sins they commit. Maybe on a deeper subconscious level they just want to appear blameless of all sins, but ironically and quite egotistically they don’t want to appear blameless before God, but before themselves.

    Who are those people kidding (not including those that are unaware and just misled). The truth for many “Christian” groups and their members is that they worship themselves and commit idolatry.

    Does anyone remember last year when Trump held a bible and walked to a church near the White House? He was asked: “Mr. President is that your bible?”, he replied: “It is a bible”. I think he was then asked what church he belonged to and he specifically replied: “Non-denominational Christian”. I found that amazingly relevant to have the sitting president of the US at the time making a clear virtue signal to perhaps people on websites like this one that we’re clearly not alone in wanting to retain the biblical definition of the word Christian whilst also leaving all other labels and denominations out of that picture.

    In the first translation of the bible into English, the words that are these days translated to ‘church’ were instead translated to ‘congregation’. The word congregation is very specific in it’s implied description as a group of people together. Church doesn’t in my opinion have the same implied description, or if it ever did it doesn’t anymore.

    Lots of people think ‘church’ and immediately picture a physical structure and a specific interpretation for the ideology that physical structure is supposed to house. So then you get “our church is right, no ours is, etc” mentality. But “our congregation is right, no ours is, etc” retains the importance of the individuals that make up the group, instead of their church’s name and doctrines being the umbrella in which the clump of their members reside, the clump becomes the highest focus (for fellowship of course).

    Group-think comes from when a bunch of people look to one thing or person or belief system, but when they look amongst themselves the top priority is not to deviate or even ask questions. This is a breeding ground for closed-mindedness which is exactly where Satan wants people.

  41. katmazdobelieve

    How disappointing that the apostles forgot to add when they preached that these people needed to ‘aspire God’s heart’… (tongue in cheek obviously).

    That commenter stating that, “Sinners who want God of their own free will also want to go the way of obedience, humility and submission” missed something very important — the Word is necessary. If these people knew, love and treasured His Word (Ps 119:140,162), it would be more likely that they would point people to it for washing (Eph 5:26), instead of acting as if these things are automatic. Like Tom Cucuzza says (not verbatim) — if it were automatic, we wouldn’t have needed a majority of the epistles.

    Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jn 8:31-32

    For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Is 55:10-11

    So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Jn 21:15-17

    Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus’ feet, and heard his word. But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: but one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. Lk 10:38-42

  42. Brad, yeah, there are so many variations on false gospels out there. Calvinism and LS are very prominent, as well as RC. All of them get back to eternal life by works.

  43. I don’t understand how people couldn’t understand the good news. It is so simple to me. How many different ways does “not your works, but Jesus'” have to be said? Thousands of different beliefs from one book… Humanity really needs to sort their stuff out.

  44. katmazdobelieve, it had gone to spam.

  45. Katmazdobelieve, yeah, a comment like this makes me wonder if someone has ever understood the gospel. It sounds like typical SBC garble.

  46. katmazdobelieve

    Did my last comment not make the cut??

  47. Chas, I agree. One common attribute of subtle LS comments is very long-winded comments that sound kinda “graceish,” but then have some ambiguous statement wedged in the middle that makes it sound like you have to have a “heart of obedience,” or some sort of implicit commitment to Christ in order to receive eternal life. The obvious problem with this kind of approach is that one would have to assess their intent to obey Christ (turn from sins, do good works etc.) in order to have assurance of eternal life. This is similar to the “willingness to turn from sin” for eternal life false gospel of Billy Graham or the J.D. Greear “posture of submission to Christ’s Lordship” false gospel.

  48. Johninnc…

    It seems as though closet LS-ers are coming up with increasingly subtle ways of disguising self-righteous unbelief. In many cases, I don’t think they’re even aware of what they do. It just makes them feel better.

  49. katmazdobelieve

    This commenter states, “Everyone is a sinner. But sinners who aspire God’s heart end up saved through Christ’s death. Sinners who want God of their own free will also want to go the way of obedience, humility and submission.”
    I know that people aren’t suppose to make assumptions about a person’s position regarding whether they have trusted in Christ alone but this commenter, based on their own words doesn’t seem like they are resting in Christ.
    Their first sentence reads like they are telling the reader that in order to be saved you must “aspire” God’s heart and then Christ’ death will be the payment. Then they follow it with they typical “you WILL be changed by seeking obedience, humility, and submission”. Maybe I am being to particular but when a person uses the word “will” it seems like the choice to seek the will of God is no longer a choice. It always makes me think that some people believe that once you are saved you become a robot and no longer have free will.

  50. Below is a small excerpt from a very long comment I read today:

    Everyone is a sinner. But sinners who aspire God’s heart end up saved through Christ’s death. Sinners who want God of their own free will also want to go the way of obedience, humility and submission.

    My comment: It is possible that this person views obedience, humility, and submission as: obeying the gospel (by believing it), humility in understanding that one must rely on Christ alone for eternal life, and submitting to the righteousness of Christ, rather than relying on one’s self-righteousness for eternal life. Otherwise, it sounds a lot like LS.

  51. Jason, that is the unfortunate truth in most cases.

  52. On the gospel, “Christian” “leaders” are spineless.

  53. Keith, agree. There are lots of “Christian” “leaders”, who may be one or the other, but almost never both.

  54. Saw this one on Facebook today. Someone posted John MacArthur’s statement on the recent election fiasco:

    “We no longer have confidence in politicians, health experts, social activists, academics, or the media—all of them have lost credibility by pursuing agendas over honesty. However, there is One to whom we can turn and always hear the truth”.

    The same could be said about America’s religious leaders, among whom MacArthur is preeminent.

  55. Chas I feel your frustration. I liked a lot of what Ironside wrote, but I haven’t read him in a long time. But when we see something that contradicts His Word, we need to say so (mark) and avoid them. I know that people feel sentimental, but they need to understand it’s better to do what the Lord tells us (avoid). They want to ‘chew the meat and spit out the bones’.

    One did that the other day with me, in ‘not throwing out the baby with the bathwater’ (a pastor). When me and another friend explained the harm people like that had done us in the past, the pastor was nice, but used that analogy, then another came behind with his, ‘I love Spurgeon’ comment.

    They love the praise of men more than the praise of God I guess…

  56. Chas, the last time I looked on the BGEA website it had turning from sins as a step for receiving eternal life. Until Franklin Graham repudiates the false gospel on the family site, I will continue to mark and avoid him.

    Regarding Ironside, some of his comments would lead to unhealthy introspection, so I do not use him for a source of quotes.

    Who knows what anyone believes, we can only respond to what they write or say.

    God bless you as well!

  57. It seems to be a tendency among some of the proponents of “soft” LS to leave out any mention of “turning from sin” in the short form of their presentation. Then they insert their mis-defined version of repentance into the mix later. Given his past record, FG may be doing that. Or not. Maybe FG has finally got the Gospel straight. Glad I don’t have to wait for his epiphany to have it straight myself.

    As most here know, others insist they are against LS, but retreat to the “a real Christian WILL have a changed life eventually” subterfuge. I got into an email exchange a couple weeks ago with one of the administrators of a discernment site where an old article by H.A. Ironside was posted as “encouragement” for readers having trouble with assurance of salvation. Ironside began fairly well with an explanation of “repentance”–what it is not–but then ripped the foundation out from under his whole argument by directing the reader back to self with this bit of advice:

    “Now test yourself in this way.”

    Hoo-boy, that’s it, get the person’s attention back of them self. That’ll instill some assurance in the troubled individual! And then, what should the person look for?

    “You once lived in sin and loved it. Do you now desire deliverance from it?”

    So a person’s perceived desire for sanctification is to be the source of assurance? A measure of whether they’ve really repented or not? According to Ironside, it is. As usual, a reliable gauge for any such desire is nowhere offered. (‘Cus there ain’t one.)

    I posted a response to the article, which showed in the thread for a little while but then disappeared. I waited a week to see if it would show, in case it had gotten buried in moderation, but it never reappeared. I posted another version saying essentially the same thing. Again; it showed as posted, but then disappeared within a couple hours. I waited a day for it to appear, and when it didn’t I contacted the SA asking why my responses to posts were getting dropped. She was very nice, pointing out that there was no problem with the site’s operation. It was that “we” (they) didn’t think what I had posted reflected what Ironside actually believed. I replied that I had quoted him directly from his own article, verbatim, in context. I asked, “If Ironside didn’t believe what he wrote, how can anyone know what he actually believed?” That question was never answered.

    There was another round in the email exchange, which featured some good examples of them reading into my statements instead of comprehending them. It went nowhere. But clearly, they don’t like any criticism of Ironside. I asked them if they thought Ironside was infallible, or if his writings are beyond reproach. She insisted they do not believe that, but “His works have been helpful to us.” They insisted I was misrepresenting him, but I wasn’t. It’s obvious that on their site any criticism of Ironside is forbidden. So much for “discernment”.

    Frustrating, but such incidents make me appreciate this site even more. God bless you guys!

  58. Holly, I hope so too.

  59. Johninnc, I always hope they might share something true.

    Franklin Graham was on an ad, the only thing he got wrong was ‘if you prayed this prayer’ but the sharing of the gospel didn’t add any turning from sin, surrendering all, etc., he used ‘believe’. I keep hoping they actually forget to add the works, that some might be saved.

  60. Holly, you had shared something similar from Michael Youssef a while back:

    “Jesus, Jihad and Peace” – page 221

    Michael Youssef says: “But to obtain this free gift, you have to surrender. You have to give up and let Jesus take control of your life…”

    I don’t think he is clear on the gospel.

  61. I was watching news and Michael Youssef came on a commercial about finding true peace. I visited to see his gospel. He was o.k. for a bit until it was obvious he doesn’t understand the word ‘repent’ and although he didn’t state it, obviously thinks public confession is part of it. Shame…

    Then he said this:

    You cannot earn God’s forgiveness; you can only receive it freely, all God requires of you is to turn away from your old life and turn to Him, surrendering your life to Him. See Rom 10:9; Acts 3:19; Luke 15:20

  62. One from today:

    “He loves us all, and He manifested His love by sending His Son to die on the Cross for our sins, and we must repent of our sin and accept that free gift by faith to partake of that love. Otherwise, eternity in the Lake of Fire is the destination. The only way of reconciliation to God is the way He provided.”

    My comment: If we must repent of our sins, then eternal life is not a free gift. The above comment is a false gospel of works for eternal life.

  63. Jason, that’s a new one to me… I have heard of the black Israelites movement, but every day in replacement type theology and hebrew roots there is some new sect, movement, error, confusion….

  64. Johninnc.
    Exactly. Ask God to show you, but let me tell you a bunch of stuff that is not found in His Word.

  65. Jason, I had heard some snippets of this kind of teaching. There seems to be no end to the twists and turns that people will take.

  66. The new heresy on the block is Israel Only (IO). It is Full Preterism #NextLevel. It is promoted on YouTube. One of its proponents is a former Ralph Yankee Arnold fan. They teach that the whole Bible from cover to cover is for Israel Only, including John 3:16 and Paul’s epistles. Calvinists say that “world” means “elect”, but these nuts say that “world” means the “covenant world”. They say that “Gentile” really means a “lapsed Jew”. They reduce Yahweh to a local deity like Zeus. They are headed for liberalism. Sad to see.

  67. Chas, agree. It was a total LS mess!

  68. johninnc…

    Thanks for the clarification, John. I’m glad that the person got “believing” in their message somewhere, but that was quite a long excerpt to read over without seeing any mention of the actual requirement for salvation. (And then, there’s also the issue of what “believing” means to the person.)

  69. Holly, this one was so reminiscent of the “turn from sin” false gospel substitutes that are so common. The twist is that the prayer asking for God to show you the truth, if answered, would not include the phony add-ons.

  70. Quite a formula.

    Hope you are sincere in wanting to know.

    Don’t forget to ask God to show you the truth. (I can agree with this as a good thing, but not as a necessity)

    Be sorry for your sins...
    (what if it didn’t happen ‘suddenly‘ then what?)
    (what if I wasn’t sincere enough? Should I start over?)
    (How many sins? What if I forgot some? What if I wasn’t sure I ‘sincerely’ want to stop some? What if I wasn’t sorry yet for some?

    And HOW does an ungodly sinner without strength do this?)

    And what is the ‘something’ that is supposed to happen? (IF you read it AND ask Him to show you yet nothing happens, DO IT AGAIN.)

    Oh… Ask Him HARDER.

    Do this until you understand….
    You must seek Him with your whole heart.

    (no fear here) “IF you follow these simple instruction, you WILL be saved but do it very soon.”

    As you all said above, no gospel given at all. I understand that Romans does tell us that Christ died for us, what the penalty for our sin is, what the free gift is, and that by believing we are made righteous etc. But they were busy adding their own parameters to what one must do.

  71. Chas, this was an excerpt. They had briefly mentioned believing elsewhere, but when they explained how to become saved, their focus was squarely on turning from sins. They most likely include turning from sins as an indispensable part of believing, or that believing and turning from sin are the same thing.

  72. Not only does the person make “turning from sin” a requirement for salvation, but they fail to mention the crucial thing that does save; believing in Christ’s sacrifice for one’s sin.

    A double face-palm.

  73. Here is an excerpt from a comment I read today:

    Go to Dollar Tree and get a King James Bible for a buck. Get alone, turn to the back of the book to Romans. Before you begin to read, ask God to show you the Truth. If you sincerely want to know in your heart, He will show you. Suddenly, you will be sorry for your sins and repent (turn) from them and you will be saved forever from your sins. You are now born again. IF you read it AND ask Him to show you yet nothing happens, DO IT AGAIN. Ask Him HARDER and do this until you understand. You must seek Him with your whole heart. IF you follow these simple instruction, you WILL be saved but do it very soon.

    My comment: Notice the writer’s focus on being sorry for your sins and turning from them versus believing in Jesus as Savior. Being sorry for your sins and turning from them is not required to receive eternal life. When someone believes in Jesus as Savior, they receive eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited. This person suggests praying for God to help you understand, which is fine. But, then he gives a false gospel message that is likely to impede your understanding of the true gospel.

  74. Phillip, I just don’t see love at all with them. They malign God’s good character in the name of their theological position which really isn’t about God at all, at least not our God nor His Word.

  75. Chas – it angers me now knowing what I know from them. They’re such ‘girlfriends’ that they suck in so many who just want to be loved, just want fellowship, want to be closer to Him. And they think they’re getting taught the Bible but they take one passage or even or portion and misconstrue it and turn it into a mantra.

    You did make me laugh about her fussiness.

    Those divine appointments happen, but I don’t think it’s quite like they portray. And I’m sure many times we may not know what effect we had. I do know that each time we’re able to plant or water, they can call it that. This is a thirsty world. They’re busy giving them a hairbrush instead of the truth.

  76. Phil, you may be right. They also only see God’s love as being good news for them.

  77. Phillip Robbins

    John and Keth: sometimes I think that Calvinist teachings, instead of being about God’s love and faith in God instead end up being about a cold mental exercise in ongoing theological debate.

  78. Keith, I also don’t get why Calvinists even feel the need to spew their false gospel, unless their god puts them up to it.

    The same guy who made the comment I referenced made several others, including one in which he basked in how good it was to be one of his god’s chosen ones.

  79. John, as usual, the Calvinist misapplies the doctrine of election to God’s choosing some to believe and be saved, rather than the Biblical application, which is God’s choosing the believer to serve Him by being a minister of reconciliation to a lost world. Consequently, the Calvinist must look for confirmatory “evidence” that he is one of the elect and has been spiritually regenerated, instead of believing the promise of eternal life to all who believe (John 5:24). .

  80. One from today:

    God loves everyone with a common grace, but He only loves His elect with saving grace. Jesus didn’t die for everyone

    My comment: This person isn’t describing the God of the Bible, but a false calvinist god. This false Calvinist doctrine is not good news at all. People whom their god selected wouldn’t really need to hear it, and for others it offers no hope.

  81. hollysgarcia: Interesting point about Beth Moore’s supposed “call” to brush some disheveled stranger’s hair. Had to be the call of God, right? Couldn’t possibly be her own fussiness. OH no! (Maybe she has the gift of OCD.) And ya gotta love the implication of God leading her to NOT preach her particular message to the poor guy. “Oh btw Beth, be sure you don’t drop your usual heretical schtick on the man. There’s a good girl…”

    But those kinds of stories are what haunted me for much of my first few years of Evangelical Church-ness. It wasn’t that I wondered why such things never happened to me, it was supposing that they were and trying to follow every stray impulse that seemed to be “of the Lord” which would enter my mind moment by moment. A person’s thoughts run in those directions when in the company of supposedly “Spirit-filled” people. Sometimes I’d spend sleepless nights thinking that I should maybe go out in the wee hours and “witness” to whomever I would encounter. Isn’t that what true Christians should do; witness to people all the time? That’s what Arthur Blessitt said. That’s what Bill Bright said. “Divine appointment” and all that. You’re not a “committed” Christian if you don’t! “Wassa-matter, ashamed of the Gospel?” No telling how many hours I spent patrolling the freeways, looking for hitch-hikers to “witness” to. Good thing gas was cheap back then. And then there’s all the people who crossed my path during the course of a typical day. How guilty I felt at day’s end for not “witnessing” to each and every one of them! (Mercifully, they were usually well-kempt.)

    Ironically, it wouldn’t have been the Gospel I’d have been preaching. It would have been the “give your life to Jesus to be saved” false “gospel” that so many prominent evangelicals promote. The same evangelicals who are always pushing people to “serve the Lord” by proclaiming their particular brand of heresy. I guess–back then–the Lord was keeping my mouth shut as well.

  82. Johninnc, and those who listen to T.D. Jakes about things regarding the nature and character of God, or his false gospel, will be going down the broad way we know.

    Kevin, I read that. Those kinds of stories play on people’s emotions. And one way these (maybe well-meaning) load-shippers do it is telling about their alms-giving in public. I don’t know if her stories are true or not, or sincere or not. But I am sure glad she didn’t witness to him with her false gospel. I shake my head too at the damage they do also to young believers who wonder why they never have any of these experiences from God.

  83. John, they comb the scriptures in vain to find support for their false gospel.

  84. Keith, wow. It just goes to show you, when God decides to provide extra-biblical revelation, we mustn’t brush it off (play on words and sarcasm intended).

  85. Here’s one from Beth Moore:

    In one of her most famous talks, Moore describes an encounter with a haggard, elderly man in an airport terminal. Suddenly, she feels called by God to brush the man’s hair—not to bear witness to him, or even help him board his plane, but to smooth his tangled locks. Moore describes her embarrassment, recounting her inner dialogue with God, in which she tries to talk her way out of the divine directive. Ultimately, however, she obeys. What began as a comic set piece ends as a moving testament to faith and the power of intimate acts of kindness. The Lord knows what our need is, Moore says. “The man didn’t need witnessing to. He needed his hair brushed!”

    Moore was obeying the Great Commission. You know, the charge Jesus gave to His Disciples: “Go into all the world and brush the hair of every creature. He who has unkept hair is damned. He who is baptized then brushed his hair will be saved”.

    Sarcasm intended.

  86. Here is a quote from the latest article by T.D. Jakes entitled “Race and policing – Church leaders must drive national conversation, action plan”

    You cannot be a Christian and stay silent.

    My comment: Christians should always be on the side of justice. But, the degree to which one may feel compelled to glom onto the political exigency du jour is often #virtue signaling. T.D. Jake’s sweeping declaration could be viewed as an attempt at providing evidence that one has eternal life by advocacy for his position.

  87. Jason, their god is all kinds of things that God is not.

  88. Their god is a manipulator.

  89. Thank you John 🙂

    Well said Chas and Hobbs. That’s one of my least favorite things when they defend the reasons why they are in error. Maybe we just need to talk about the error, and leave the person to God. I love it (not) when they say they are ‘brothers in Christ’. How on earth would they know that when a wolf teaches a false gospel?

  90. Chas, yes Malcolm and Alwyn were a mainstay of the church music scene over here at the time. I also remember buying Malcolm Wild’s solo album ‘Broken Chains’ but not sure I played it much for some reason – probably just liked the cover! (I was only 16).

    Boy, I had some nightmares reading Charles Finney’s sermons online (some 15 years ago now). They so freaked me out I ended up contacting a local church leader for help, he concluded the stuff should be ‘burned’ it was so disturbing, although he also said one had to bear in mind the historic context for which it was written, if that makes any difference?

    Yeah I think perhaps I see my friend behaving the way you describe that pastor, trying to weigh ‘LS error’ with the clear gospel and it just can’t be done; they’re polar opposites. It creates a kind of diabolical perpetual motion that confuses the mind – works/grace/works/grace/works/grace…

  91. Holly, I know. They’ve gotten themselves twisted up in knots. If they try to argue with me, I can just tell them their god made me disagree with them.

  92. They never seem to want to admit that point Johninnc (that their god is controlling everything someone else does). But think on what it will cost some of them, when someone does something completely evil to someone they love and they think God caused that murder, child rape, etc.

    Of course radicals like James White at least admit it.

  93. chas, there is no good answer for people who teach one must turn from sin (repent of sin) or be willing to turn from sin in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. They have added works that no one, including themselves can keep.

  94. Hobbs…
    Yes, those are a few of the groups of CC’s Maranatha Music publishing entity. Also Daniel Amos, Parable, Mustard Seed Faith and others.
    You’re in the UK? Do you remember Malcolm and Alwyn? Besides being a musician, Malcolm Wild was an assistant pastor at CCCM when I was there. He tended to be more Arminian in his theology, being “a big fan of Charles Finney” according to a close acquaintance. He was definitely LS-inclined. (Dunno if he still is.) I’ve mentioned on this site before of how I once–in sheer frustration and near despair–asked him about repentance in salvation after attending his Tuesday night Bible class at CCCM. My question was basically this: If a person repents of sin, yet continues to keep sinning (as we all do), how do they know if their repentance is real? And if repentance is necessary for salvation, how do they know their salvation is real?
    The question seemed to confuse him. I don’t think he got the point of what I was asking exactly, or if he did, he seemed to be trying to soften the implications of his view. His hesitating answer was disjointed, and did nothing to clarify the issue. Poor guy. He really was trying to help, but his LS error blinded him and tied his hands.

  95. Holly, agree. And, it goes further than that. They would have to admit that God controls everything that anyone does.

  96. Holly, I agree. No need to ingest poison from people who are known to preach a false gospel.

  97. Also, as far as Calvary chapels, a lot of them tended to be ecumenical as long as another religion (like Catholicism) was charismatic.

    We recently had a discussion in one group about one of their favorites, J.D. Farag. He not only does the A-B-C method of salvation, but the statement of faith on his website says for salvation you must repent from sin and confess Jesus Christ as Lord. Those defending him were wanting me to watch videos of him speaking out against lordship.

    Thing is people don’t realize, that we have to mark and avoid, and if they currently have a false gospel, why on earth would I want to listen to a sermon of his?

  98. In addition to evanescent grace, Calvinists have to admit that God blinds the non-elect from believing the gospel, so they absolutely assign what is said about Satan to God (from 2 Cor 4).

  99. Chas, thanks for the information.
    Looked up Calvary Chapel, I see that bands/musicians such as Love Song, Chuck Girard and others kind of emerged from there? Their music was a big part of my church life as a youth in the UK and I certainly really appreciated it, still can I guess. Won’t elaborate though for obvious reasons.

  100. Calvinist Privilege: benefitting from the historic oppression of the unelect and thinking that it is the sovereign will of god. These funky, nasty, crooked Calvinists also invented “children of a lesser god” as a label for people that they conquered. Manicheans.

  101. Hobbs…

    It’s true that people can be de-facto Calvinists without knowing it. That condition permeated Calvary Chapel when I was there (mid-’70’s through mid-’90s). In those days I thought there were basically just two possible views; Calvinist and Arminian. Most CC-ites rejected Arminianism because it holds that a believer can lose their salvation. That left Calvinism, though some CC-ites rejected certain Calvinist doctrines. During that time I always had the impression that CS “leaned toward Calvinism”, but I was also unclear on many of Calvinism’s key doctrines, so my perceptions of “Pastor Chuck” and Calvinism in general were hazy.

    Chuck Smith always insisted that he was neither Calvinist nor Arminian, but interestingly enough, after a “Pastor’s Perspective” episode in which Chuck Smith attempted to refute the Calvinist interpretation of Romans 8:28-30, James White (a staunch Calvinist) mocked Smith’s argument as a way to “make more Calvinists”, apparently claiming that Smith had in fact supported Calvinism with his argument against it. I had difficulty following White’s logic, but hey–he’s a Calvinist! Near as I could make out, White claimed Smith had–evidently–retained enough residual Calvinism in his argument to support what he (Smith) was trying to disprove. White was quite amused by Smith’s supposed gaffe.

    Since my separation from CCCM, I’ve arrived at the conclusion that Smith’s soteriology was muddled, at best. It was no small source of confusion and anxiety for me and a lot of others. Residual Calvinism can really mess one up, even if one refuses to own the label.

  102. Hobbs, the “evanescent grace” that Calvinists teach is an awful concept. The God of the Bible did not devise it.

    You are right that there are a lot of Calvinists who don’t even realize they are Calvinists. Another example is that many SBC members deny that they are Calvinists, because they reject one or more of the tenets of Calvinism. But, anyone who adheres to even one of the false tenets of Calvinism has allowed himself to become compromised by false doctrine that undermines the gospel.

  103. I remember Holly saying recently that if more people knew about the ‘evanescent grace’ thing they’d realise just how awful calvinism is. A case in point, I told my friend about it the other week, he hadn’t heard of it, but his immediate reaction was that it sounded like something from satan; the idea a loving God would trick people into thinking they’re saved when they’re not. Strangely, he said he didn’t know much about calvinism, but I was pretty sure he was the one who introduced me to it back in the early ’80’s. I pointed out that we can often be in church groups that are based in calvinism without even knowing it. I think the charismatic ‘movement’ we were in back in the 80’s, is just such an example. One of the bigger leaders of it at the time even ended up dismissing it as “just a system devised to allow people to feel superior about being ‘the elect’ “.

  104. Correction john. According to Wiki. Scott was an atheist. In this short video he was giving an explanation of the TULIP to a young woman in a bus or train station. So, I’m not sure where he stood on Calvinism?

  105. Phil, that’s interesting. Sad, but interesting.

  106. Just an anecdote, john…..I saw a short video given by the late actor George C. Scott. In it he gave a short explanation of the acronym “The TULIP”.. He was rather calm like it was some accepted norm in Christianity, scary. I suspect Scott was a Calvinist.

  107. Phil, if they were consistent with their faulty logic, they would have to insist that their god made them write wha they wrote and also caused us to refute it.

  108. You can defeat a Calvinist’s arguments simply by sticking to Scripture rightly divided. Calvinists believe that scripture has to be looked at through their lens of man-made doctrines, creeds, and confessions. In effect, truth ends up being their confessions and not what the Bible makes abundantly clear… If you try to debate with them using their man made doctrines and dogmas, it’s just an endless debate roller coaster. They love the intellectual theological stimulation over the edification of the Bible.
    From Steve’s post this shows they think we are ignorant and depraved. So they condescend to us.

  109. Holy, very well said!

  110. Thank you John and Phil for answering poor Steve.

    These people that believe they are chosen and handed these gifts of ‘faith, repentance, love’ and yet need proof of that fact, haven’t considered that in the false doctrine of Calvinism, they very well could be one of those chosen for ‘evanescent grace’ (fooling them into thinking they are believers all their lives).

    This is the kind of god they preach. The god that blinds minds of some to the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. We know that 2 Cor 4 identifies that god as the god of this age, or this world, and is not the God over all.

  111. Just in case you are still there Steve. Your use of the word “repent” is the usual modern twisting of the word. In the New Testament Greek it simply means to change ones mind. It does NOT mean to change ones actions, or turn over a new leaf, forsake ones sins, or make ones self into a new creation. It is simply a change of mind-which is its correct definition. John, in his Gospel, his epistles, and Revelation, NEVER uses the word repent for eternal salvation: he instead uses “believe”. That is because everyone who believes in Jesus for salvation has changed his mind from unbelief to believing in Him as their Savior.
    Steve, the Lord Jesus Christ has already freely provided your complete salvation for you as a gift. He paid the penalty for all your sins dying for all of them on the cross, was buried, and was raised from the dead. When you or anyone is willing to believe this then they are from that moment on completely and eternally saved and have been raised with Christ to new life. We are then free to walk in the Spirit in this new saved life God has given us and in the good works he leads us in.

  112. johninnc, yes these posts can serve as examples of what we need to avoid, or what we can already be unknowingly infected by. Many thanks for your work in defending the faith.

  113. Hobbs, yeah, that is why Satan compels people to write this stuff. God would not try to entangle your mind and heart, nor drag you down.

    Let’s hope that something beneficial comes of our interaction with Steve, in that he, or someone else who teaches or is inclined to believe the false gospel of Calvinism might see how ludicrous and unbiblical these teachings really are.

    Satan uses scripture out of context and twisted in its interpretation to fool people. He is the prince of this world that causes men to revere men and refer to Spurgeon as “The Prince of Preachers.”

  114. Boy, yeah, that post… felt like something trying to entangle my mind and heart, dragging me down. That sort of stuff feels very unhealthy.

  115. Steve Allen, thanks for swinging by. Your false Calvinist doctrine is not welcome here.

    You said: Indeed, it is also written that those things which save us; belief, faith, repentence, and love are first given to us.

    My comment: God does not give us belief/faith. This is our responsibility. Eternal life, not belief, is the gift of God (Romans 6:23).

    One cannot have Christian love for another without being a Christian. Only Christians can choose whether or not to walk in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is how we manifest the fruit of the Spirit, which includes love.

    You said: The full Gospel includes these things which you must have come from our Fathers Spirit which He gives you daily.

    My comment: The gospel is the message of how Christ provided completely for our salvation. It is a message to be believed. Again, belief is not a gift from God, but our response to the gospel message.

    You said: Belief, faith, repentance, love are proof of our salvation. His spirit which He promised. These that save us are not our works.

    My comment: Belief, faith, and repentance (when properly defined in a an eternal salvation context) are not works. They are responses to the gospel message. These do not save us, but rather accept the finished work of Christ on our behalf. They are our responsibility. They are not works. Love, as I mentioned above, is a fruit of the Spirit.

    You said: “The ways of man are pure in his own eyes, but God weighs the spirit.” (in which it was done, motive, intent).

    My comment: For believers, our work will be evaluated at the judgment seat of Christ, including our motives. Those productive things done by us with the proper motive will result in reward.

    You said: To error with good intent – mercy; Do what’s right with ill intent – judgement

    My comment: Good intentions are good, but if they have potentially disastrous consequences they are likely not of God. For example, you may have good intentions in propagating your false gospel, but it is in no way rewardable.

    Steve Allen, you are a false teacher. If what you have written is correct, then anyone’s response to it is pre-ordained by God. Your false gospel is that God chooses who will believe – whether anyone or everyone, or anything in between. Your false gospel is that God will compel you to write this and compel me to accept or reject it. God did not compel you to write this. My belief in the true gospel of Jesus Christ compels me to reject it.

  116. Indeed, it is also written that those things which save us; belief, faith, repentence, and love are first given to us.

    Can we fulfill the law to love one another without a loving spirit?

    The largest false doctrine is preached as a half truth. “You” must believe. “You” must repent. “You” must have faith, “You” must love one another. False when insinuating these come from us.

    The full Gospel includes these things which you must have come from our Fathers Spirit which He gives you daily.

    “Give us today our daily bread”.
    “I believe, help me in my unbelief”
    measure of faith
    The different gifts

    Belief, faith, repentance, love are proof of our salvation. His spirit which He promised. These that save us are not our works.

    It is His Spirit that compels us that there are no laws against. I can illegally jaywalk to save a child so that our intent being compelled by His Spirit justifies our actions and declares us innocent in spite of the no jaywalking law I broke.

    “The ways of man are pure in his own eyes, but God weighs the spirit.” (in which it was done, motive, intent).

    To error with good intent – mercy
    Do what’s right with ill intent – judgement

  117. Holly, yes I did wonder if it was true or not that ‘all God’s promises are conditional’. Thanks.

  118. Hobbs, they obviously don’t understand the nature of many of His unconditional covenants. The Abrahamic covenant was unconditional of course, unilateral, God swore by Himself and there is no greater (Gen 15; Heb 6). I wish people would pray and study for themselves humbly asking God to show them.

  119. Hobbs, understood!

  120. johninnc, yes, no conditions. I wrote that in a bit of an ambiguous way for some reason. I was registering my objection but it sounded like I was having doubts! lol.

  121. Hobbs, once a person has believed in Jesus as Savior, he has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited – there are no conditions.

  122. From an online sermon:

    ‘We tend to forget that all of God’s promises in the Bible are conditional’.

    I thought, but not the promise of eternal life!

    If it’s conditional then it’s not a free gift.

  123. Jason, you’re right.

  124. Adeola was reporting on the rigged elections in Togo, and one of her followers made this satirical comment: “No African leader will see heaven”. Seriously, the way to heaven is open, even to a madman like Hitler, by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  125. Jason, that is a really confusing tweet.

    I hear a lot of people talking about “spirituality” today, and it’s likely that not all of them have the Holy Spirit that comes to indwell a person the moment he believes in Christ as Savior.

    And, one need not know or believe everything in the Bible in order to have eternal life. In fact, many people who claim to believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God have rejected God’s way of eternal life.

  126. I saw this tweet: “There are some who claim to be spiritual. It doesn’t matter if people are ‘spiritual’ if they aren’t Biblical they will go to hell”

    Believing the Bible is not a condition for receiving eternal life. Believing the Gospel is. The Bible is for discipleship. Carnal Christians do all sorts of unbiblical things and are saved. This guy is full of LS.

  127. What I mean is that it is typical for lordship sites to use John 14:6 to scare people. I agree that I should have worded it more carefully.

  128. Holly, very well said.

  129. Completely agree John.

    I’m seeing this trend on FB where people make statements, maybe with good intentions, but unknowingly they are actually causing confusion and undermining His Word in some cases. It’s best to stick as close as possible to His Word when we are stating something as if it is truth.

  130. Holly, I completely agree that Jesus is the only way we can have eternal life.

    If He had not died for our sins and been raised from the dead, our faith would be in vain (1 Corinthians 15:17).

    Yes, eternal life is the gift of God, but it is through Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23). The gift of eternal life and Jesus are inseparable.

  131. Jason, you said a similar thing on FB, that Jesus is not the only way that Grace is the only way.

    This is why I quoted John 14:6, and Titus 2:11. It points people to Christ who is the only way, who is the truth, and who brings eternal life. He is the Savior and the way to be saved through belief on Him.

    As a friend I’d really caution you to be careful how you speak about Scripture and how you word things which may not line up with His Word. We shouldn’t lightly say things like that.

  132. Jason, neither that verse, nor any other, denies eternal security. It’s a shame that anyone would deny eternal security, when the Bible so clearly teaches it.

    One receives eternal life when he believes in Jesus as his Savior. Eternal life is eternal.

  133. I observe a curious phenomenon: so many people love to quote John 14:6. They think it’s the gospel. They repeat ad nauseam, Jesus is the only way. Whenever I dig deeper, I see denial of eternal security. Grace is the only way. They are clueless.

  134. Phil, it is double talk.

    And, regardless of their motive, teaching a false gospel is inexcusable.

  135. I have noticed a trend with LS statements, like with Franklin Graham’s. They will state unequivocally what is clearly lordship salvation, but then if they are challenged they will say like, “that’s not really what we mean” and then try to explain it away as grace alone. Sounds like double talk.
    I wrote to the Billy Graham association years ago about their insisting on faith plus repentance and changed life for eternal life. But they replied in so many words. “all we want is people to accept and commit to Christ.” So are they saying all the repentance, change of life style, counting the cost, and so on is just to get you to commit you faith to Christ?

  136. Following is an excerpt from a Franklin Graham quote that I found in an old article today (from around 2012):

    For me, the definition of a Christian is whether we have given our life to Christ and are following him in faith and we have trusted him as our lord and savior.

    My comment: according to the Bible, a Christian is someone who has believed in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

    One need not “give their life to Christ” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. Further, the concept of “following Him in faith” as a condition for being a Christian can imply that something more than believing in Jesus as Savior, such as agreeing to faithfully follow Him, is required to receive the free gift of eternal life. Last, “trusting in Him as Lord and Savior” can imply that one must do something, such as “making Jesus Lord of his life,” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life.

    Franklin Graham’s definition of a Christian is not the same as the Bible’s definition of a Christian.

  137. Another comment: “‘I have no fear of depths, and a great fear of shallow living”

    I avoid depths like the plague. I don’t believe in deeper life. I am a proud shallow liver. Keep it simple, keep it real.

  138. Jason, I have seen similar approaches to discrediting the apostle Paul.

  139. While I was reading posts of a friend of a friend who commented on a post of a person that I am following, I saw this comment:

    “”This Paul is indeed a strange man. His soul is not the soul of a free man. He speaks not of Jesus nor does he repeat His Words. He would strike with his own hammer upon the anvil in the Name of One whom he does not know”

    Last time I checked, Acts 16:31 and John 3:16 are essentially the same. The soul of a lordshipper or a sacred namer is not the soul of a free man at all. His settings did not let me comment.

  140. Jason, I agree. That was the point. The quote made it seem like God views someone as righteous by virtue of their having performed all of these works, when God sees anyone who has believed in Jesus as Savior as perfectly righteous.

  141. Since these things are not necessary, then why are they offered as the basis for knowing that God only sees the righteousness of Christ? He sounds confused.

  142. We received the below comment today from one of our friends:

    Isn’t it incredible that once you’ve repented of your sinfulness and given your life over to Jesus, loving him and following him, that God only sees the righteousness of Christ when he looks at you?

    Our friend rightly pointed out that it is not true that one has to do any of these things in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. Eternal life is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  143. John, I agree that is a good example of an errant understanding of the gospel.

    In my previous post, I meant to cite John 5:24 rather than 10:24.

  144. Keith, I thought this would be a great example of an errant belief system, and that perhaps someone reading who has been infected by false religions would read it and inquire further.

  145. John, the quote you shared is another form of the pervasive idea that the sinner must make repeated and ongoing offerings for his or her sins in order to enter heaven or have the assurance that he or she will enter heaven at death. This is prevalent in all forms of religious thought including apostate Judaism (observing the Torah), Islam (praying to Allah seven times a day), Roman Catholicism (receiving the Eucharist at mass throughout one’s life) and Lordship “salvation” (maintaining one’s commitment to and persevering in good works).

    By contrast, in the Biblical Gospel, eternal life is received once by faith, and this need never be repeated (John 10:24; Heb. 6:1-3). It is an instantaneous and irreversible act of God by which He forever justifies the sinner and imparts divine righteousness to the believer’s spirit through faith. From that moment on, the believer is guaranteed future entry into heaven whether he or she continues in the faith or falls away, although that is never God’s intention.

  146. I read the following last week:

    I hope that in his goodness he will hear my last prayers, together with those which I have long poured forth, entreating him to receive my soul in his mercy and kindness.

    My comment: this was from the english translation of the last letter written by Queen Marie Antoinette of France.

    It is reminiscent of the prayer that ends with “if I should die before I wake, I pray dear God my soul to take.”

    Anyone who has believed in Jesus as Savior has eternal life, and need not entreat God to receive their soul upon their death.

  147. I agree. I have lived through thirty years of words-induced confusion. It is sad to see it continue perpetually in every corner of the world.

  148. Jason, believing in the Lord Jesus as your Savior includes believing that He is enough for you personally. When someone says “accept the Lord Jesus as your Lord and Savior,” it can confuse the matter and make the reader/listener think that one must do something, such as make Jesus “Lord of his life” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life.

  149. Bishop Oluwadamilola posted: “All Muslim must change to christian.
    Jesus is the way, the truth and the life…
    Accept the lord Jesus as your lord and personal savior, tomorrow maybe too late”

    I don’t know this pastor, but putting “personal” in front of Savior makes that statement ring accurate.

  150. I saw the following statement in an article critical of the false prosperity gospel:

    If you want to know what following the will of God looks like in practice, look at Jesus, who was brutally tortured and murdered on the cross for our sins. Look at all the apostles and martyrs who died on account of proclaiming the Gospel.

    These people didn’t receive back what they lost in earthly prizes or see their bank accounts increase. They sacrificed their lives for the sake of God’s true word in order to receive the gift of heaven.

    My comment: Everything is OK until the last sentence. The writer says that the apostles and martyrs sacrificed their lives IN ORDER to receive the GIFT of heaven.

    This is heretical nonsense. One does not need to sacrifice ANYTHING to receive the GIFT of eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t know better who reads this tripe would think that we receive eternal life based on our works.

  151. jason, it sounds like there’s quite a mixed-bag, including lots of error.

    We have managed (mostly) to keep the expreacherman ministry focused on promoting and defending the gospel. If we were to allow it, we would have way more traffic, but would undermine our purpose.

  152. I am uneasy about some of Renee Roland’s friends. 4themosthighjesus claims that Yahweh is the name of Satan. She reads from Watchman Nee, who was part of the NAR. It is beyond C Peter Wagner. My studies have concluded that the NAR goes back to Azusa Street and even Spurgeon. The NAR today includes IHOP, Beth-aven, and Hellsong. It is connected with the fake pastors and Nazi presidents of Africa. I believe they participated in Museveni’s genocide through the Lord’s Resistance Army, along the Congo-Uganda border. Nee himself discipled Witness Lee, who spawned Eastern Lightning, which is clearly a terrorist organization. Churchianity has its own ISIS and Bokkko Haram in the person of these entities.

    I am truly upset that some of our friends quote these Reptilians. 4themosthighjesus agrees with Nee that there is automatic healing in the atonement. Like the New Apostate Racists themselves, they are naming and claiming things. They are mixing NAR teachings with Free Grace. They are pleading the blood. One of this user’s sources goes by “Good God” and has the wrong repentance. Who has bewitched them? They have not noticed that Watchman Nee died of his last disease. I get sick and tired of these deep teachings. They say we all died in Christ. They mean it literally. What nonsense. So sad. As for Yahweh being Satan, didn’t Gnostics teach these things? It’s like Joseph Prince all over again.

  153. Jason, yeah, some of these guys are all over the place.

  154. I saw someone share a sermon from Abel Damina. His voice boomed out the words: “God walked out of God”. That’s mumbo jumbo. And then he got weirder: “the first birth of Christ was the appearance of God in human form”. I didn’t know there was more than one. When do come up with such nonsense?

  155. Holly, I hope that you and your family have a great Christmas as well. Thanks for the reminder that we are never alone.

  156. John 6:47 – I think of that one too. They are the modern day Pharisees. Definitely blind leading the blind, holier than thou hypocrites that don’t even see the forest of their sins for the tree of their self-righteous ‘wonderful works’.

    PhilR – Fear… exactly. Paul Washer is another fear monger, along with Ray Comfort-less. Excellent reminder (Matt 23). We were talking about that the other day. If people would see who He was talking to in Matt 23. What was about to transpire (their house was being left to them desolate and the physical temple was ready to be destroyed), and the 7 years left of Daniel’s prophecy to be visited upon Israel for their transgression.

    Hope you all have a blessed, restful Christmas with loved ones, filled with comfort and joy. For those who may be alone at this time, remember with Jesus, you are never alone. I appreciate you all.

  157. Jason,

    I don’t know if we saw the same thing, but I also saw some of those masonic and mystical quotes by Spurgeon. I think his reformed friends cleaned up a lot of that stuff. Augustine was very mystical and strange too in a lot of his talks.

    I agree with John, he was the prince of lordship teachers.

  158. Keith, Piper is one to talk. He thinks God ordains rape and doesn’t know if he’d stop a rapist if they were raping his daughter or wife. So what is the point of Piper citing urgency when his god is in control of causing it all, good and bad?

  159. Chas,

    I notice that loadshippers almost always equate the ‘narrow way’ or ‘strait gate’ with a lifetime of works. I happen to equate the gate with Jesus and the way with Jesus. In Psalm 118 there is a prophecy that speaks of the gate and the way the righteous will enter, and then identifies that gate as the stone (Jesus) that the builders refused. John 14:6 of course identifies Jesus as the way. And John 10 says He is the door (also translated and means gate) of the sheep.

    This prophecy is also about a gate that will re-open, but I find it interesting in light of the stone they rejected.

    19 Open to me the gates of righteousness:
    I will go into them, and I will praise the Lord:
    20 this gate of the Lord,
    into which the righteous shall enter.
    21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me,
    and art become my salvation.
    22 The stone which the builders refused
    is become the head stone of the corner.
    Ps 118:19-22

    1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
    7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:1-2, 7-9

  160. Phil, you may be right – they are either deceived, deceivers, or both. Loadship sells, so it makes a more lucrative business model.

  161. John, I’m not so sure they can’t see it; some don’t want to. I think some of these loadship teachers like Piper and MacArthur are control freaks. They, like the Pharisees, want to manipulate their flocks with fear. I think some of them actually do know what the gospel of grace alone actually is, but they think their flocks will just sin up a storm with just believing, so they have to control their minds with a faith plus keeping the commandments as the means of salvation and keep their flocks on an endless treadmill of working their way to heaven. Jesus had to deal with the Pharisees of his day, Paul had to deal with his in Galatians, and today we have our load ship salvation Pharisees with their good works requirements for salvation, and their manual, MacArthur’s “The Gospel According to Jesus.”
    Maybe Piper should read the “woes” of Matt 23 and look in the mirror.
    A person comes to Christ’s sermon on the mount not keep the requirements of the law; but to come to the end of himself and trust in the One who has kept the requirements of the law perfectly for him and has the complete eternal remedy for all who will believe his gospel. (Rom 3:1-28; Rom 7:15–8:4: Rom chaps 4 and 5)

  162. John 6:47, it really is amazing that they can’t see it.

  163. Keith,

    Whenever people like John Piper twist passages to teach works-for-salvation, I can’t help but think of 1 Timothy 1:7

    Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

    If the self-righteous Pharisees of today REALLY understood what they were saying, they are, in fact, condemning themselves. I bet Piper has had a lustful thought at some point in his life. If he says otherwise, he is lying, and lying is a sin.

  164. Keith, I agree with your take on this passage.

  165. Here’s another one from Piper. The article was written in response to a reader who wanted to know how to battle sexual lust. Piper states:

    “Jesus said,

    You have heard that it was said,’You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. (Matthew 5:27–29)

    Well, suggesting that we tear out our eye, because the issue is heaven and hell, is a call to urgency — about as strong a call to urgency as I can imagine. My oh my. Misplaced sexual desires — not just acts, but desires — is, it turns out, not such a small thing after all. So, urgency is essential”.

    Jesus’ point in the above citation of scripture was that the law requires moral perfection on the part of those who would seek to be justified by keeping it. So if you try to be justified by keeping the law, you would need to pluck out your eye and cut off your hand and foot if that’s what it takes to keep you from sinning.

    He presented a bleak picture for those under the law so that his listeners would repent Biblically, or change their minds about trying to be justified by keeping it so that they would instead believe on Him alone for eternal life.

  166. chas, the NKJV is one that uses “difficult” instead of “narrow.”

    Like you said, I don’t think that is a good translation. There is nothing “difficult” about taking Jesus at His word that He is both the gate and the way.

    You are right that the main issue is that narrow leads to life and broad leads to destruction. And, a person having believed in Jesus as Savior is no guarantee that he cannot err and drift into legalism.

  167. Matt. 7:13,14 does speak of two gates and two ways. The gate and way to life are described as “strait” and “narrow” respectively in the KJV, while the gate and way to destruction are described as “wide” and “broad”.

    The NASB uses the words “small” for the gate and “narrow” for the way to life, with “wide” (gate) and “broad” (way) leading to destruction.

    Essentially, the KJV and NASB are identical on this point. The main issue is narrow–>life, broad–>destruction, but I saw one site that showed vs. 14 as reading “difficult” for the way to life instead of “narrow”; a mistranslation. No surprise the site is heavily LS.

    But the “way” to life is indeed narrow, just as the “gate” is. Having found and proceeded through that narrow gate to eternal life (free grace), how easy it still is to fall from the narrow way into LS legalism.

  168. I understand. Thank you John.

  169. Helen, I would be cautious with any commentaries. Some can be helpful, but none are a substitute for, nor on the level of scripture itself.

    And, since no two are exactly the same on all matters of interpretation, none is infallible.

  170. Helen, you are right to be wary of Leonard Ravenhill. According to previous comments here, Ravenhill teaches that a person can lose eternal life.

  171. I went to a convention several years ago through the Sanctuary Convention, and I remember there were lots of free CDs and leaflet for people to take, and I ended up taking a few but rarely listening to them. One of them, which I still have, is by Leonard Ravenhill. I haven’t listened to it, but from what I’ve read about him he adds works.

    The strait gate and the narrow way scriptures used to scare me, because I knew that I couldn’t possibly be this perfect holy human being, and now I am rested in Christ and I experience His peace and joy it’s amazing. I used to regularly read articles on Ligonier, gty and Desiring God, even Got Questions – all of the ‘dangerous’ websites. Thank you all for defending the gospel and helping confused once Christians like me to have assurance of salvation. God bless

  172. I know, Phil. It’s just so difficult to look up a scripture on that StudyLight and know who to trust from its bible study tools. Is anyone aware of any trusted teachers on there?

  173. Keith, you are right that Jesus is the straight gate and the narrow way.

    John 10:9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

  174. When Jesus spoke of the “narrow gate”, it was concerning how one “enters” life, not how he lives once he has entered it:

    “Enter by the narrow gate…” -Matt. 7:13.

    To the religious mindset, the idea that one can know he is going to Heaven by simply believing something, without more, is preposterous. Hence the addition of works, experiences, religious heritage, etc. as the full or partial requirement for eternal life, which is broad path leading to destruction and on which many travel.

  175. Jason, you make a very good point. The way cannot be so narrow that it excludes believers. If it were, it would exclude everyone.

  176. A picture post from Narrow Path Ministries Uganda:

    “if you’re going to be a
    true christian,
    it’ll be a
    lonely life.
    it’s a
    narrow way,
    and it becomes
    narrower and
    narrower…” (all caps removed)

    Ravenhill was labeled at the bottom right.

    My thought: if you want to be a Christian, you can by simply believing the gospel. If you want to live as one, it will be lonely. It has been so lonely standing up for the true gospel, that even that ministry isn’t with me.

    Most people who emphasize the narrowness of the way intimate that the way includes works. Those who are consistent on grace stress simplicity over narrowness. That has been my observation. The way cannot be so “narrow” that it excludes actual believers.

    I am sad to see some friends fall for this. The word “holiness” scares them every time it booms from a pulpit.

  177. Hi Helen, I am disappointed in Ironside too, enough that I avoid his writings. He is taking Matt 7:20 out of context. Jesus Is referring to knowing false prophets not Christian believers. The is much wisdom and truth that Christian believer can gain from the Gospels, but the Gospels including Matthew are directed to Israel as a nation still under the Law and not for doctrine for the body of Christ. Some teachers will try to take a verse or passage out of the OT or Gospels and make it stand on its own ignoring the doctrines of grace alone taught to the church in the Epistles.

  178. It is a shame, but thanks so much for checking out the article and verifying that there are works in there. I wish these teachers were consistent in their beliefs and did not contradict here and there. Thank God for this site.

  179. Helen, I read some of the excerpts from the link you provided and I agree that some of them were a little troubling.

    Sometimes, the broad appeal of well-known theologians can be attributed to their being vague or inconsistent.

    I have previously read at least one example of Ironside using life change as proof of the veracity of Christianity, and he seems to be inconsistent sometimes.

    I am not sure about Ironside’s overall body of work, but I do not use him as a source for favorable quotes.

  180. I was just doing a read on StudyLight on Matthew 7:20, “ye shall know them by their fruits”. It cannot be of works, because many ‘religious’ people do good works, but they do not have Christ, so I was a little disappointed to read of H A Ironside’s comments

    (link removed by administrator)

  181. Thank you, John. False messages are like toast crumbs. They get everywhere, and it’s our job as believers saved by the precious blood of Christ to make clean again.

  182. Helen, you are correct. We are all baptized by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief.

  183. My neighbour has had a second ‘blessing’ of the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I told her it wasn’t necessary, she said it was. We are baptised into the Church through simple belief, that’s what I rest in. I don’t care what she thinks about me. I think she belongs to a charismatic church, as I’ve heard her plead the blood during prayer. She is big into Derek Prince, but I find his teachings confusing. Effective on fasting though.

  184. Jason, you are right that people often don’t realize what they’re defending, particularly through careless quotes or associations.

  185. Some comments are now denying that Bonnke preached tithing and prosperity. Ninyo Omidiji made it pretty that he is free grace in his recent posts. But looking back to Dec 8, I find where he defends Bonnke. Ninyo never himself uses the phrase “ask jesus into your heart”, but Bonnke was known for it. I am bewildered. People don’t know what they are defending.

  186. Phil, it does seem like Bakker always turns his ministry into some sort of business.

    I live in Charlotte and have visited the old Heritage USA ruins.

  187. Yea john, I well aware of Jim Bakker’s past and present TV shows. His show seems to be magnet and stage for the likes for Michelle Bachmann and some others. I think Bakker is either mid-tribulation rapture or post tribulation thus pushing his 3 1/2 year or 7 year tribulation survival supplies. Seems Bakker always somehow turns his TV ministry into some sort of business.
    I looked for some online site where Mike Lindell says he found salvation thought Christ alone. The closest I came was a video of Mike Lindell giving a talk at Liberty University, but he never told how he had trusted Christ as his Savior in this video.

  188. Phil, I hope he has heard and believed the gospel. What you heard him talk about to Jim Bakker doesn’t really address the gospel.

    Bakker is an oddball. He was selling “end of world” supplies last I heard.

  189. Holly, Bonnke sounds like one to mark and avoid.

  190. I came across The “My Pillow Man”, Mike Lindell, who was a guest on the Jim Bakker TV Show. He gave his testimony of how he kicked the crack addiction and surrendered to God, and God is giving his My Pillow business such success and the joy and happiness he has. I’m not disputing his testimony. But I looked online for more info from him and I could not find where he said that he had believed the good news the gospel of Christ’s finished work to save him. All I got was that he had turned his life and business over to Christ, kicked his drug addiction, and he gives all the credit to Jesus. I hear this “prosperity gospel” so much on TV, and I don’t know if Mike is promoting the “prosperity gospel”, but I can’t find where Mike stated where Christ died to pay for all his sins, was buried, and was raised from the dead for him to secure for him everlasting life, which is the true gospel available to all who will by faith accept this good news.

  191. Yes Bonnke was one that taught a separate ‘baptism’ of the Holy Spirit, and if you didn’t speak in them you didn’t have the Spirit. So being born again wasn’t the baptism of the Spirit but a second blessing. Strange kind of lordship in that if you didn’t have signs and wonders then you had a problem because he said there were always ‘physical evidences’.

    Anyways, he went so far beyond Scripture in even saying God’s power needs human hands, Jesus couldn’t have multiplied the loaves without His disciples. Smh, the error is really the same. Trust in self.

  192. jason, I don’t know very much about Reinhard Bonnke, but based on previous comments (primarily from Holly) on expreacherman, he was another supposed “faith healer.”

  193. I have seen people worship Reinhard Bonnke in the internet comments of the last 24 hours. Even people who are discerning about Benny Hinn and Johnson Suleman are celebrating his life. I don’t understand this. Aren’t Bonnke and Hinn birds of a feather?

  194. John, I agree. They have to put works somewhere, at the front end, the back end, the middle, or all three.

    Helen, the unregenerate thinking of the unbeliever or carnal thinking of the believer does not separate what one must do to receive eternal life, which is a one-time placement of one’s faith only in Christ and His finished work, and discipleship, or ongoing obedience to the commandments, which is what the believer is called to do to make his salvation productive. It seems right to them that they must work for eternal life, but we know that what seems right is often tragically wrong (Prov. 14:12), especially in matters of salvation.

  195. Hi Keith. A lot of people really do confuse Christianity, and they mix discipleship into salvation. They are subtly stealing glory away from God, when our eyes are taken off the only treasure that is Christ. I think people do really trust that they have some redeeming good qualities, outside of God, contrary to what the Bible says.

    I had one woman, when I told her that I prayed and read the bible, ask me if I was religious. I said no. Christianity is not religion.

    If a so called Christian website is getting people to focus more on ‘what they do for Christ’ instead of His perfect work to redeem the sinner to the Father, I doubt they have got the gospel right. In the twelve or so websites I’ve viewed this week (trying to look for a grace teaching Church), none of them have said that salvation is a free gift of God, but they focus more on works. They mention Christ paid for our sins, but then comes the ‘evidence to prove salvation’ etc etc. it’s so draining, but we’ve got to keep going and keep letting the Holy Spirit discern truth from error in this dark antichrist world.

  196. Hi Holly. There are some nasty people on FB, real religious folk who just don’t understand that grace and works don’t mix and they can’t. I’ve added a few articles on there myself, one of which was about the movie, Ghost, which teaches that good people like Sam Wheat (Patrick Swayze) go to heaven, and his mate who gets him killed for money, goes to hell. People were really nasty when I shared that article, cos I always loved that movie as a kid, but it’s not based on biblical salvation.

    You keep going, girl. You are doing a great job on FB, and on your personal website, Redeeming Moments, and here too. Don’t let the ‘haters’ grind you down. Your defence of the gospel is not done in vain for the Lord. We love you, and you know what is most evident of websites like these – there is no condemnation . We encourage one another in love, because none of us are strong all the time, but some Christians like to beat us down when we are struggling. They are such hypocrites. Christ doesn’t, and we should not either. To grow in grace is to even more see our need for the freedom in Christ, because our sin nature is filthy and always present, and we are nothing without Him.

  197. Keith, the article that you have quoted is indicative of the false gospel messages that pervade the world of professing Christendom. They just can’t seem to keep from falsely insinuating works into the gospel.

  198. And here’s yet another one from John Piper’s “Desiring God” website. The writer is a guest who is a professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, which must be Reformed or Calvinistic.

    The author of the article states:

    “With voices of hope, the psalmists looked forward to the day when all peoples of the planet would praise the Lord and relish his favor. Paul, as a servant of Messiah Jesus, identifies that the aim of the gospel is “to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of [Christ’s] name among all the nations” — a mission that defines the very makeup of the church (Romans 1:5).1 Three elements are noteworthy with respect to this aim.

    “First, the phrase “the obedience of faith” probably means “the obedience that always flows from faith.”2 Faith is the root and obedience the fruit, yet in a way that the two are never separated; saving faith submits to Christ’s lordship (Romans 6:17–18; 10:13–17).”

    My comment: the “obedience of faith” means faith in Christ alone and in His promise alone on the basis of His finished work, apart from works of any kind past, present or future. The born-again believer who has exercised such faith may or may not obey in the sense of good works or fruit depending on whether he or she chooses to walk by the flesh or by the spirit, but possesses eternal life either way.

    The unbeliever submits to the Lordship of Christ by turning from unbelief (works, faithfulness, obedience, etc.) and believing the promise of eternal life through Christ found in scripture. The result is possession eternal life which can never be lost, forfeited or nullified. The believer is called to submit to the Lordship of Christ by continuing to rest on the promise of eternal life and doing good works, resulting in progressive sanctification and ultimately, eternal reward, but still has eternal life whether he does or not.

  199. Holly, yeah, Billy Graham spent a lot of time talking about counting the cost, when he should have been more concerned about getting the gospel straight.

  200. John, that presumption is unbelievable to me, especially when the ones presuming it are often unkind or snide. Years ago when some FB people had an issue with me speaking against adding the good work of turning from sin to the gospel, one of them came here to do some battle.

    I think about the sad fact that one was a Calvinist, the other a Pentecostal who believed in repenting from sin to be saved, and continuing to stay saved. Both outright stated I was likely unregenerate.

    Billy Graham often used that phrase from the Word incorrectly. I remember he talked about counting the cost. The Bible seems clear it is about following Him which is sometimes a lifetime project, some like Demas go back into the world, but I hate it when they confuse these passages with the gospel, missing the impossibility of doing these works perfectly let alone adding them to a free girt.

  201. Following is an excerpt from an article I read today:

    Of course, Christians are sinners, so hypocrisy and judgment sometimes slip through in our words and actions as we war against our sins. But being misunderstood is part of the cost we’ve counted.

    My comment: “Counting the cost” is not something that all Christians have done. If it were, then there would be a cost to us for receiving the free gift of eternal life, which would mean that eternal life was not really a free gift.

    The article went on to discuss a “presumably unregenerate” person. Please note that to presume someone is unregenerate is to think that one can judge whether or not another person possesses eternal life, which we cannot do and is not our job.

    If we are concerned that someone is not clear on the gospel, we should look for opportunities to preach the gospel to that person. Based on some of the misconceptions in the article I’m quoting, I would be concerned that the author may be fuzzy on the gospel. But, I would not presume she was unregenerate.

  202. jason, that is great news!

  203. And the story has a happy ending. I shared the sermon “My Faith Has Found a Resting Place” by Cucuzza.

    The girl who had shared Furtick said: “I agree. I’m careful now about the ministers I listen to these days. Too many fake prosperity and motivational soeakers out there rather than true men of GOD”

    And it ended on a graceful note.

  204. Jason, thanks for the warning.

    When someone’s testimony is their “changed life,” then it takes the focus away from Christ and puts it on their works.

  205. “Evangelist” Sonny Okosun’s song “A Great Change” appeared in my recommendations. Sure enough, the lyrics start out: “all those bad things I used to do, I do them no more”. It’s loadship. Back to “Ope Mi” by T.W.O. My praise comes from grace alone.

  206. Jason, Furtick wrote an acknowledgement for one of J.D.Greear’s books. They seem to be part of a mutual admiration society.

    Kind of strange bedfellows if Furtick cares about the integrity of the gospel.

  207. A Facebook user who uses a name that spoofs Adeola shared a video of Steven Furtick preaching a message of “sleeping on God’s promises”. “They are all ‘yes’ in Jesus”, even though they be zillions. And he says we are not to expend energy in claiming them. For someone who preaches this, he expends quite a bit of Kundalini in preaching it, firing up the magachurch crowd. Lordship salvation is definitely not sleeping on the promise of eternal life. I don’t know where he gets off on it. He probably claims promises that God never made. It is not sleeping on it when they tell you that you don’t have enough faith and that you don’t “truly” believe.

  208. PhilR, I agree, why do we need ‘good works to clothe us’ when Christ’s righteousness does that already through faith in Him.

  209. Hobbs, this sounds like classic LS fruit inspection. In the first place Israel as nation is being addressed in regards to the Kingdom in the Parables. It shows that these fruit inspectors really don’t understand the completeness of the gospel of salvation. (Eph 1:13,14; Col 2:9-13) They seem to be trying to say we need to complete our salvation that Christ has already completed for us.
    No saved person would be found naked at the wedding. We are already clothed with the righteousness of Christ.. ( 2 Cor 5:21)

  210. Hobbs, it is hard to know exactly what people mean when they make comments such as that, and I agree that people often misuse scripture to manipulate others into helping with their agenda.

  211. A while back I heard the comment: ‘Our Life in [walking with] Christ will lead us to do good deeds and we will be unconscious of doing them [Matt
    25:37 &44] but our deeds will cloth us at His marriage feast – Matt 22:1-14 – the friend without wedding clothes.’

    You can see where this is going… if you don’t ‘walk with Christ’ you won’t produce good works and thus be naked at the marriage feast.

    ‘Walking with Christ’ could be code for ‘get with a church program, be accountable to the leaders, let them fruit inspect you to see how you are doing’.

    Seems too darn easy to use the Bible to control people.

  212. These oppressive ideas would make Adeola cringe. She has had two videos from the past that I find refreshing. She has also said that men should not take abuse from women, and that is fair and balanced. Renee Roland also has a video on the issue. It is sad to see what lengths people will go to, to twist scripture to support abuse.

  213. Here was Piper’s comment on abuse:

    “If (her husband) isn’t requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.”

    Another one in the same video was in a nutshell, Piper being asked if God foreordained rape, what Piper would do if his wife and daughter were being raped. He basically said he probably wouldn’t stop it.

  214. Phil, I was thinking of your comment here:

    When they say, “we are saved by faith alone, but a faith that saves is never alone” they are looking inward on themselves for assurance of their personal character instead of to Christ.

    And sometimes I think they look on their outward works and words before men. But it made me think on the inward. And how if we’re honest, we know things other people don’t about how we’re just not so great. But I wonder if they fool themselves? I used to think I was good. And I do think I had myself kind of fooled.

    That led me to ponder Calvinists or lordshippers who view God a certain way.

    And I saw a post from Piper yesterday, and the disgusting way that they view God, how on earth would they exactly know what behavior was good or bad based on the vile things they view God as doing?

    I’ll go grab that post.

  215. Phil, correct. He has provided completely for our salvation. We need only believe it to receive it.

  216. John, what you say, “once a person believes” is key to this. A person simply accepts by faith the finished saving work of Christ, the gospel of his salvation. In so believing, he receives his salvation.

  217. Phil, you are right that people who use that type of phrase (“we are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone”) are pointing people away from believing that Christ did everything necessary to provide for our salvation.

    Once a person believes the gospel, he has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited, no matter how he lives his life from that point on.

  218. When they say, “we are saved by faith alone, but a faith that saves is never alone” they are looking inward on themselves for assurance of their personal character instead of to Christ. We are saved by Christ alone; our faith in Him is what connects us to that salvation. (Eph 1:13-14) Further, we and all our life’s sins died with him, were buried with him, and we are raised with him to a new eternal life with him. It’s a finished work in us, a done deal. Christ did it all, not our faith whether alone or not. So when they add “a faith that saves is never alone” they are denying the all sufficiency of the gospel of Christ’s finished work, saying we have to add something else to finish it. All I know is I have been raised with Christ. (Col 3:1; Eph 2:1-6; Gal 2:20; Rom 6:3-10).
    So if the faith plus works bunch want to worry whether their faith is alone or not. All I know is I will always be with the Lord.

  219. Johninnc, I agree those alms are never required. Yet somehow they think they’ll ‘see’ them in ‘real’ believers…

  220. Helen, I think I accidentally deleted one of your comments yesterday.

    Sorry about that.

  221. Holly, the adage “the faith that saves is never alone” (and it’s many variations) is prolific. I’m sure we’ve addressed it somewhere here in the past.

    Yes, alms are to be done in private, and they’re still not required to prove that one has received eternal life.

  222. Keith, these preachers have no idea of what they are saying, or perhaps they do but they are also blinded by pride. They deviate people from Christ back onto themselves so they are looking at what they are doing for Christ, instead of just resting in the salvation that God has provided for us. They believe in human goodness, when the Bible clearly says that only God is good. Serving God should be joyous, but humans just destroy that with constant demands for ‘proof’.

  223. Johninnc

    Besides ‘We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone,</i? Didn't you do an article with just these pet phrases? They all seem to have a book that has these reformed catch phrases or buzz words. I know you've done many like this, but there are certainly some we all here over and over.

    What I've always wondered is how they truly think they can judge someone to be a 'true convert' or a 'genuine convert' based on their outward works. Has it never dawned on them that these alms are to be done in private? So how will they know?

  224. Keith, I finally got some bookshelves and putting up some of my books and in the cabinet beneath some of the ‘false’ reference material. I just shook my head when it came to putting stuff together. The John Piper ones, all gifts by well meaning friends. One was a combo coffee table type magazine that had art and Piper’s words. Makes me sad thinking on the woman who gave it to me. The last time I read something he wrote was about 10 years ago and it was very condemning. Anyways, he went on to make himself more popular by joining in contemplative prayer with Beth Moore and Lou Giglio. These wolves really look likeable and to some, respectable. People really just do not get the outward ‘wonderful works’ and gray hair and suits or seemingly humble personalities.

    That excerpt you shared from Desiring God speaks volumes to what I think is their job as false prophets. One of their jobs (like Living Waters, or GTY) is to make people question whether they are ‘true converts’ based on their performance. In other words, making twice the sons of hell that they are, or making the little ones to believe in Him to stumble.

    I think they should have a TV show. “Would the True Convert please stand up?”

  225. Jason, yeah, all of those aphorisms lead to confusion. The focus on life change and transformation has even found its way into the names of many of the mega churches.

  226. I could remember in my childhood never hearing that “faith that is never alone” nonsense. But I did hear “ask jeebus into your heart” and “give your life to christ”, most often in Junior Church. Even warnings that some people will deny him implied something else. Changed lives stories were inspiring back then, but they have morphed into something else. Miracles were inspiring in the first century and are deceptive in the 21st century. I briefly met with my childhood pastor at a Bible study, but when he misinterpreted John 3:14, I never went back. Even he seems fake, now.

  227. Chas, the tentacles of Rome have thoroughly worked their way into evangelicalism, as you can hardly sit through a sermon in a Southern Baptist church without hearing the phrase, “We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone’.

  228. Yo Keith,

    The statement by that staff writer:

    “We are justified by faith alone, as the Reformers taught, but not by a faith that is alone.”

    Isn’t that a statement worthy of a Roman Catholic, even a Jesuit? It is exactly the kind of self-contradictory word game that the RCC has practiced for centuries. Like all such word games it is nonsense. Faith alone cannot be “faith that is not alone” since by their own definition “faith that is not alone” is faith PLUS something else. It’s amazing that these “reformed Protestants” don’t realize that with their false gospel they are hand-in-glove with the RCC they supposedly broke away from 500 years ago.

    GAAAAAAHHHHHHH! These pious, blind, self-righteous RELIGIONISTS!!

  229. Helen, you are right. When we believe the good news of our salvation in Christ, we are baptized by one Spirit into one body as saved believers in Christ (1 Cor 12:12-13). Water baptism is a symbol of this.
    Signs and wonders are not required to be manifested in the saved person.

  230. Helen, no, it is not scriptural. It is people trying to gain assurance of eternal life from something other than God’s promise of eternal life to anyone upon belief in Jesus as Savior.

  231. What is this baptism of the Holy Spirit, as my neighbour who is a Christian said that she was immersed and she had an experience and she has power. I said to her that upon belief in Christ we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and I said that her experience wasn’t necessary, to which she replied “oh yes it is”. This was a while ago but I thought nothing of it. I know some teach of a second blessing, but is it scriptural? 

  232. Jason, yeah – they’ve created another false religion that co-opts the name of Christ.

  233. The Calvinist-NAR birds of a feather fulfill Matthew 7:21-23 to the letter. It’s not Holy Ghost fire, it’s Antichrist fire (Revelation 13:13).

  234. Keith, they don’t seem to understand that perfection, not just an improvement in behavior, is required to receive eternal life.

    That passage does apply to people who have never believed in Christ alone as Savior.

  235. Here’s another gem from Piper’s “Desiring God” website. The following is a good representation of the Calvinist’s understanding of Matthew 7:21-23, which states:

    Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?” And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

    The staff writer states:

    “We are justified by faith alone, as the Reformers taught, but not by a faith that is alone. To truly receive the words of God is to intentionally, through a joyous faith in our crucified and resurrected Lord and active reliance upon his Spirit, obey them. Consider that if exposure to God’s word in the spoken gospel and the written Scriptures doesn’t soon change your behavior (even if slower than you might hope), if the transformation of your inner person does not extend to your outer life, you may well be wandering in the dream of those who never knew him.”

    He ultimately concludes:

    “Thus, while requiring us to think (true doctrine matters), saving faith is not merely about thinking; while requiring us to feel (we must love the Lord with all of our hearts), it does not terminate in our passions; while affording great displays of power and wonders, it calls for private fruits of a holy life to corroborate public showings. It produces men, women, and children who, in union with Jesus and given new hearts, happily do the will of God with a new, childlike aim: to please him (2 Corinthians 5:9)”.

    My comment: The staff writer ends up embracing the very same mistake which Christ warned about in Matt. 7:21-23. The condemned listeners in that passage based assurance that they possessed eternal life in whole or in part on their good works. So it is with the consistent Calvinist, who must examine his works of perseverance for evidence of “saving faith” in order to have assurance that he possesses eternal life.

  236. Jason, it seems the more one looks into Spurgeon, the worse it gets. Spurgeon was a leading torchbearer for the false gospel during his day.

  237. I recently came across a page called “Charles Spurgeon Uncensored”. It exposed through quotes another aspect of Spurgeon I did not realize was there: Word of Faith, Divine Energy, Masonry, the All Seeing Eye, and pleading the blood. One quote even has Spurgeon thinking he can control God. False Prophet Owuor is more like him than I thought. It’s chilling.

    To think that the theological oppression that my African friends experience can be traced back to this 19th century mightiest false prophet. “Whipping yourself until you bleed to show remorse” is the very essence of turn or burn. And now, Adeola reports that they are selling the blood, in good old medieval relic worshiping fashion. The struggle continues against lordship “salvation”.

  238. Johninnc

    I shudder for the teachers, but more so for those they mislead as I know you too feel the same.


    It is always uncomfortable at the very least for people to hear their favorite teachers are preaching falsely. They often accuse of exactly it is that they are doing or saying. It’s the way the accuser of the brethren accuses both sides I think. As you noted, they call you judgmental, while they are judging you 


  239. Helen, some of us plant, others water.

    I think the most helpful thing to me is remembering the power of the gospel itself (Rom 1:16-17; 1 Cor 1:17-18).

    We are basically the ones who preach the gospel and we can and should pray (1 Tim 2:1-6) and trust Him for the harvest. I have seen people I’ve known come to faith after a long time. Some I’ve had come to believe right on the phone, as simple as reading the Scriptures and very little explaining. I think then was when I understood the true power of the gospel meaning that we just have to preach it. He convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment so we should keep laboring in the harvest, and pray for others to come and water what you have planted.

  240. Thank you. I just worry for them.

  241. Helen, you could go with Romans 3:23.

    Just because people dismiss what you say or don’t seem to understand it does not mean that you are giving the gospel incorrectly.

  242. What can we say to people who say that they have no sin? I’ve asked him have you ever told a lie, had sex before marriage, lusted after a woman, hated someone in thought etc and he was just jokingly answering and not taking it seriously. Sometimes I even wonder if I am giving the gospel correctly because the people I tell just don’t seem to understand it and then I get discouraged sometimes. However when I’m speaking of Jesus I feel so full of joy and just praise him. I hope that others other stand.

  243. Helen, right. I believe this is one of Satan’s favorite lies.

  244. Hi Holly. We can easy get burdened when we take our eyes of Christ and back onto ourselves because others say we need to live a certain way. It is so very damaging and not growth in grace at all.

  245. Even chatting with my friend’s daughter this morning, who mentioned ‘evil people’ wouldn’t go to heaven etc, and I explained that God saves whosoever trusts in Him. It is nothing to do with how we perform before or after, because non of us deserve eternal life. It is so ingrained in us that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. There is an actual documentary on Netflix called something like good people go to hell and saved people go to heaven.

  246. Helen, much of the world of professor christendom thinks that good people have eternal life.

    The Bible says only those with Christ’s imputed perfect righteousness, received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, have eternal life.

  247. Is it common for unbelievers or the ‘religious’ to call us narrow minded and judgemental when we expose false teachings like new age. It made me quite sad because I’m not a hateful person at all, but it is our duty to tell others of the narrow way that is Jesus Christ. Our works will never merit eternal life because we need the righteousness of Jesus, and I think this is a harsh reality that some people react in anger and judge us instead for telling the truth.

  248. I can see why it’s so easy for people to just tag onto what others are saying and they forget how much mercy and grace they have been shown by God, and it is our duty to extend this to others.

    I’ve been guilty of judging and fruit inspecting others myself in the past due to meeting ‘believers’ who have said that I had to live a certain way, or that I was crucifying Christ every time because of my OCD or addiction, and I could lose my salvation. It’s pretty soul destroying and easy for people to just walk away from the faith, instead of resting in Christ’s work which is the only peace we have. Until I discovered that I was already saved and there was nothing I had to do to save myself before, during or after and there is the amazing grace and peace we have. I need to remind myself of this when those condemning voices of past people echo in my head.

  249. Holly, that’s my concern as well – just a foundationally corrupt view of the gospel that is focused on our works instead of Gos’s provision for our salvation through Christ Jesus.

  250. It just makes me shudder to see them say things like this. I am very afraid some of them will be the ones saying, Lord, Lord, but we did WONDERFUL WORKS in your name….

    I am sure many of them think that is their transforma

  251. Helen, agree. We have no way of knowing whether or not someone possesses eternal life.

    The “transformed lives” concept has become mostly a euphemism for fruit inspection in many circles.

  252. I know, it is saddening that people make comments like these without realising that they show no love or grace in condemning or judging others. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace.

  253. Yes, these commenters do forget about their own sin. Looking down upon others is not loving or graceful. I hope that they see that.

  254. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today about a criminal (I believe the nature of the crime is irrelevant) who died in prison:

    Because I believe that God’s grace and salvation can reach us all, I hope that he somehow experienced true repentance and transformation before he went to meet his Maker.

    My comment: I don’t know what this commenter’s definition of “true repentance” is, but there is no requirement that one be “transformed” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life.

  255. Jason, agree completely. LS is nonsense!

  256. “Our Mumu Don Do” by Charly Boy is a popular protest song used during protests against Bokkko Haram. It contains the line: “preachers preaching nonsense”. Lordship is nonsense. There is no making sense of it.

  257. This site is so correct in how it says that the modern terms today like ‘give your life to Christ’, ‘make Christ the Lord of all’ or ‘repent of your sin’ are just man made statements that sound holy, but they do not help people. They are not helping the cause of Christ, and they are certainly not found in scripture. If only the people hearing this garbage (as JackSmack77 would say) would check scripture for themselves, as it’s so lovely to be able to relax knowing that you can trust what the pastor says, although I only get that with watching certain YouTube sermons – certainly not from a church here in the UK.

  258. Helen, the false turn from sins for eternal life message has been repeated so many times that people either believe it or just parrot it.

    You are absolutely correct that it is not scriptural.

  259. Do these ‘men of God’ have any idea of what they are doing to people in saying repent of sin? Do they even understand what that word means?


    Various definitions of repent in Old Testament Hebrew – 5150, 5162, 5164, 7725

    5150 nichum
    nichum: comfort, compassion

    Original Word: נִחוּם
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: niche
    Phonetic Spelling: (nee-khoom’)
    Definition: comfort, compassion

    Found in: Hosea 11:8

    5162 nacham
    nacham: to be sorry, console oneself

    Original Word: נָחַם
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: nacham
    Phonetic Spelling: (naw-kham’)
    Definition: to be sorry, console oneself

    Found in: Genesis 6:6, Genesis 6:7, Exodus 13:17, Exodus 32:12, Exodus 32:14, Numbers 23:19, Deuteronomy 32:36, Judges 2:18, Judges 21:6, Judges 21:15, 1 Samuel 15:11, 1 Samuel 15:29, 1 Samuel 15:35, 2 Samuel 24:16, 1 Chronicles 21:15, Job 42:6, Psalm 90:13, Psalm 106:45, Psalm 110:4, Psalm 135:14, Jeremiah 4:28, Jeremiah 8:6, Jeremiah 15:6, Jeremiah 18:8, Jeremiah 18:10, Jeremiah 20:16, Jeremiah 26:13, Jeremiah 26:19, Jeremiah 31:19, Jeremiah 42:10, Ezekiel 24:14, Joel 2:13, Joel 2:14, Amos 7:3, Amos 7:6, Jonah 3:9, Jonah 3:10, Jonah 4:2, Zechariah 8:14

    5164 nocham
    nocham: sorrow, repentance

    Original Word: נֹחַם
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: nocham
    Phonetic Spelling: (no’-kham)
    Definition: sorrow, repentance

    Found in: Hosea 13:14

    7725 shub
    shub: to turn back, return

    Original Word: שׁוּב
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: shub
    Phonetic Spelling: (shoob)
    Definition: to turn back, return

    Found in:1 Kings 8:47, Ezekiel 14:6, Ezekiel 18:30

    In the case of the word ‘turn’ in the old testament, again the hebrew word is 7725 shub.


    Various definitions of repent in New Testament Greek – 278, 3338, 3340, 3341

    278 ametamelétos
    ametamelétos: not repented of

    Original Word: ἀμεταμέλητος, ον
    Part of Speech: Adjective
    Transliteration: ametamelétos
    Phonetic Spelling: (am-et-am-el’-ay-tos)
    Definition: not repented of
    Usage: not to be repented of, about which no change of mind can take place, not affected by change of mind.

    Found in: Romans 11:29, Corinthians 7:10

    3338 metamelomai
    metamelomai: to regret, repent

    Original Word: μεταμέλομαι
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: metamelomai
    Phonetic Spelling: (met-am-el’-lom-ahee)
    Definition: to regret, repent
    Usage: (lit: I change one care or interest for another), I change my mind (generally for the better), repent, regret.

    Found in: Matthew 21:29, Matthew 21:32, Matthew 27:3, 2 Corinthians 7:8, Hebrews 7:21

    3340 metanoeó
    metanoeó: to change one’s mind or purpose

    Original Word: μετανοέω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: metanoeó
    Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh’-o)
    Definition: to change one’s mind or purpose
    Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

    Found in: Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17,, Matthew 11:20, Matthew 11:21, Matthew 12:41, Mark 1:15, Mark 6:12, Luke 10:13, Luke 11:32, Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, Luke 15:7, Luke 15:10, Luke 16:30, Luke 17:3, Luke 17:4, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Acts 8:22, Acts 17:30, Acts 26:20, 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 2:16, Revelation 2:21, Revelation 2:22, Revelation 3:3, Revelation 3:19, Revelation 9:20, Revelation 9:21, Revelation 16:9, Revelation 16:11

    3341 metanoia
    metanoia: change of mind, repentance

    Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    Transliteration: metanoia
    Phonetic Spelling: (met-an’-oy-ah)
    Definition: change of mind, repentance
    Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.

    Found in: Matthew 3:8, Matthew 3:11, Matthew 9:13, Mark 1:4, Mark 2:17, Luke 3:3, Luke 3:8, Luke 5:32, Luke 15:7, Luke 24:47, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:24, Acts 19:4, Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20, Romans 2:4, 2 Corinthians 7:9, Corinthians 7:10, 2 Timothy 2:25, Hebrews 6:1, Hebrews 6:6, Hebrews 12:17, 2 Peter 3:9

    Have they turned from all their sin? Do they even understand that ONLY Christ is the perfect one, and no human can reach this standard? I don’t think they understand what sin actually is? Hypocrites they are.

  260. Following is an excerpt from a comment by Franklin Graham in an article published today:

    “…hell awaits those who don’t repent of their sin and put their faith and trust in Christ.”

    My comment: No, Franklin. Hell awaits those who don’t believe in Christ alone as Savior. You teach a false gospel of works that requires turning from sin to receive the free gift of eternal life. You are falsely trying to turn a gift into a trade, just like your false evangelist father, the late Billy Graham.

  261. Holly, yeah – everyone wants to set their own curve.

  262. Johninnc,

    Those people who preach this, I always wonder if the people who know them would agree they are living a Holy life (let alone we know living Holy isn’t going to get us to heaven).

  263. Jason, interesting points. Politics uses religion, and vice versa, as part of one another’s strange bedfellows.

  264. Jeremy Stone goes by Deep State Exposed on Twitter and has been following me. Today, he disappointed me with a quote from Kim Clement, predicting the Trump election in 2007. It did not come to pass when he said it. I called Kim a thief, and another follower told me to take it up with God. But God gave me Matthew 24:24 for a reason.

    I am reminded of when TB Joshua predicted Hillary in 2016, and Adeola laughed at him. TBJ did it again this year by predicting Omoyele Sowore in his own country. Then Buhari rigged. Those snatched ballots were not in his dreams. Whatever political train you are on, believe not everything that rides it. These prophecies nauseate me.

  265. Helen, agree – they are frustrating grace.

  266. Sadly, these people in their efforts to bring people to God actually turn people from God with their hard believism. I don’t think they even know what sin is, to be honest.

    Repent from sin isn’t even in the New Testament anywhere. John the Baptist said repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and Jesus said repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent in the correct definition to change our mind about Jesus and trust in His perfect work.

    Thank God for and all of the saints who give clear clarity on the gospel. It truly helps our Christian growth to rest in Christ. Thank you and God bless to you all.

  267. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today. It had 10 “up” votes and 2 “down” votes:

    God is calling for repentance from sin, and for all to live a Holy life in Christ Jesus if you expect to enter heaven.

    My comment: If God required you to repent from sin (turn from sin) to receive the gift of eternal life, it wouldn’t be a gift – it would be a trade. This is the false gospel of Lordship “salvation.”

  268. I agree, great comment Keith!

  269. Keith, very good comment.

  270. I read this one today from John Piper’s “Desiring God: website. Piper is responding to a subscriber’s question about “willful sinning” (Heb. 10:26) threatening the salvation of the sinner:

    “Christians struggle with sin because we, in this life, are still sinners. The presence of sin in us will not be eradicated until that glorious day when we see Jesus face to face. What a day that will be! But until then, we fight sin by faith, and we can experience assurance inside the fight. But we also believe there are forms of “willful sin” that evidence a heart that has not been saved. Which leads to today’s question from Josh”.

    Piper goes on to state:

    “In other words, it’s not a single act; it’s not a few acts; it’s not periodic acts. It’s rather a settled, persistent continuation in sin. What destroys the soul, what puts it beyond forgiveness in verse 26 [chapter 10 of Hebrews] is not sin per se, but an eager, deliberate, willing, persistent, settled pattern of sin”.

    My comment: Calvinists often label those who subscribe to a grace view of the gospel as “antinomian”, or “against the law”.

    However, the true antinomian is the Calvinist who, although he bases at least some of his assurance that he is one of the elect (or possesses eternal life) on conforming his behavior to God’s law, believes that perfect adherence to the law is not required to enter heaven. Rather, one can still sin, albeit on a limited basis, and still expect to enter heaven.

  271. Brannon Howse has a video in which he exposed general overseer John MacArthur as a useful deep state tool, who condemns revolutions against tyrannical governments, even when the train of abuses has reached the breaking point. Calvinist fake pastors are convincing the sheeple to give up their guns. Next time a see a Nigerian with the orange beret as his profile picture quote MacArthur, I am in the mood to drop the knowledge on him. Howse stands against abusive anything: husbands, pastors, or rulers. I don’t endorse Howse, but I can’t help myself to avoid watching the drama.

  272. Keith, yeah, it’s a biz.

  273. Yes, “scam” is a good word for it because salvation by works builds big churches and sells books. The unregenerate masses flock to it because they like being told that Christ’s work alone is not enough, that you must do something to know you are going to heaven. Those who promote iit commit the same sin as Balaam, who greedily coveted the riches that Balak offered to curse Israel:

    Jude 1:11:

    “”Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah”.

  274. Jason, she’s right – salvation by works is a scam.

  275. One of Renee Roland’s friends is Nyanda Bundu. Her videos are encouraging. In her latest video, she called salvation by works a scam.

  276. Following is from a story about a “weeping painting” at a Greek Orthodox church in the Chicago area:

    “This is a calling on all of us to change our lives,” he said. “We need to turn to her in prayer and humility. And cleanse our hearts and souls of inequities so we may find salvation.

    My comment: There is no point in praying to Mary. And, cleansing our hearts and souls of “inequities,” much less “iniquities” is not how one receives eternal life. Eternal life is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  277. gmain – Welcome.

    Wow, what you said about the MacArthur study Bible just hit home. I went to several Bible studies at a church I used to attend. I had stopped going to the services because of the pastor starting to get into some things like Rick Warren and Brennan Manning. But one of the women Bible teachers was really good. Until she started quoting from the MacArthur Bible. In the beginning she didn’t say it was him, but I remember a couple things sounding confusing and asking her and she couldn’t explain it from Scripture.

    She was also going to a teacher called John Politan (in Scottsdale) who was diligent to preach TULIP as the means to spirtual maturity (as I see it). Anyways, she used to be some a good Bible teacher, I love her and care about her. But her doctrine started to change, and it certainly didn’t distill like dew. And that was the end of that Bible study…

  278. gmains1000, thanks for commenting.

    As you’ve observed, focusing on our performance can only lead to doubt.

    There are so many people like MacArthur out there whose teaching tends to attempt to undermine our faith by changing our focus.

  279. I’ve been reading the posts here for a number of years but never responded to anything before. I have picked up some useful ‘gems’ here to defend grace. I’ve been a believer for 57 years. I got saved around age 11. About 1997 I bought a MacArthur Study Bible. I began to listen to him sometimes on the local radio as well as a number of other guys. At that time I knew he preached the Bible, not realizing his Lordship gospel. But listening and reading his notes began to make me doubt. It didn’t last too long because I knew there was something amiss. His Lordship false teaching was making me look at my performance rather than looking to Christ and His finished work by faith. Thanks for standing faithfully for the gospel.

  280. Holly, you make a really good point.

    So many of these false teachers think that doing something in addition to simply believing the gospel is necessary for eternal life. As such, they do not seem to trust in the power of the gospel message.

  281. Back maybe around 2005-06, somewhere in there could have been later, I remember seeing a video by Paul Washer, just watched a little, because he made me ill. I didn’t know an exact reason why except he was condemning. I just didn’t want to hear him. When I listened to more when someone challenged me as to why I wouldn’t listen to him, I bought some transcripts from sermonaudio and I also made some of my own (much easier to buy the written transcripts because it’s painful listening).

    I was just kind of talking to the Lord and asking why he didn’t preach the gospel itself, and it came to me also (should be obvious) that he didn’t believe the power of the gospel, but He trusted in his own words. I guess they are all pretty much the same in their regard. They love to be heard for their many words.

  282. Phil, to my knowledge, none of the “biggies” has ever come on here to set us straight. But, many of their acolytes have.

  283. I have thought about asking this here for some time. Has John MacArthur or any other well known loadshipper ever dropped by here at Exp to “set us straight” with their LS “truths”?

  284. Holly, the likely reason that MacArthur wouldn’t give people the gospel is that he teaches that believing it isn’t enough.

  285. John MacArthur did a repeating series on saved or self-deceived (he re-vomits out the same ‘sermon’ over and over).

    Trouble is, if someone was a tare, he doesn’t give them the truth. If someone tells him they are unsure if they are a Christian, does he preach the gospel to them?

    No! This is what he tells them, ” my immediate response is, “The reason you may feel you’re not a Christian is because you’re not a Christian.”’

    Here is what MacArthur says it takes: (only part of his long list of lies from the enemy).

  286. Hobbs, I know what you mean. And, ministries like Hocus Focus (on the Family) only spawn and perpetuate the lies.

  287. So glad there are a few people around defending grace or I’d still be committing hara-kiri every five minutes reading these kinds of comments.

  288. Here is another in the same thread:

    Easy way to think about it. Is there anything you would not give up to spend eternity with your Creator? If you can think or rationalize one then you are on the wrong road.

    My comment: This is exactly the way that Satan wants you to think about it. If you think you have to give up some sin, or another, in order to receive the free gift of eternal life, you simply don’t understand the gospel. The gospel is not about us giving up anything. Eternal life is a FREE GIFT, without cost or obligation to the recipient.

  289. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today:

    If you think you are a Christian, you’re probably self-deceived. Salvation includes repenting of and repudiating one’s own sin…

    My comment: Translation (sarcasm intended): If you simply believe the record that God gave of His Son, but you haven’t given up all of your sin, that means that you are probably self-deceived as to whether or not you have eternal life. Even though the Bible says that you can know you have eternal life, based solely on having believed in Christ alone as Savior, I say you can’t.

    Your salvation includes repenting of and repudiating your own sin. My salvation includes me repenting of and repudiating certain of my own sin, although since I still sin, I haven’t repented of or repudiated all of my own sin. But, God will still let me into His kingdom, because He knows how hard I have tried to avoid sin. Jesus is my Lord and Helper!

  290. Jason, yeah, your friend is in serious error.

    Believing that Jesus is God in the flesh is not “polytheism.” And, as you said, Jesus is our kinsman redeemer.

  291. A friend of mine from last year fled from the Evangelical Free Church in Germany over lordship. Later, I find out that he dogmatically denies the Trinity.

    About the Incarnation, he makes this comment: “I have never confirmed a polytheistic ‘3 person God’ and if you want me to, I can prove it to you. Also, I am confirming the incarnation because I actually believe that the Word became flesh. Denying it logocally means saying the Word stayed Word as Spirit and never came in flesh, but only ‘inside’ flesh…”

    These comments make me as sad as lordship itself. I am not sure what gospel they believed. Earlier, he denied that Mary contributed any “flesh” to Jesus. That leaves Jesus totally unrelated to us and unable to represent us. Later in the comment, he he says that “God actually killed his Word by nailing it to the cross”. That sounds really bizarre.

  292. Jason, you bring up an interesting point. That kind of statement can have all sorts of implications. I recently read an opinion piece at an SBC site that said that trying to appeal to a lost person’s desire to avoid hell is inappropriate. The writer didn’t even seem to know what the gospel is.

    The message that lost people need to hear is the gospel message, faithfully presented. Any other message, or “means,” is simply off-target.

    That is the primary reason why I painstakingly attempt to keep this site focused on gospel issues, and to discourage ancillary discussions about things that distract from advancing the gospel.

  293. From OneWayApologetics (YouTube):

    “If you use carnal means to attract men, you are going to attract carnal men”

    There is something woefully wrong about that statement. All men are carnal before salvation. If you don’t attract carnal men, you don’t attract any men at all. Jesus died for carnal people.

    I notice that they virtue signal about dress. Allowing casual dress is condemned as carnal.

  294. Jason, very good point.

    People just cannot seem to keep from perverting the gospel.

  295. From Hope Restoration Ministries:

    “Walking with God is a lifestyle. God becomes the most important thing in your life, There is a purpose and destination – eternal life. The journey is without its own trials and tribulations, yet there is comfort in JOHN 16 : 33 and with this comfort there is great Joy and peace when you Know God id on your side with all which you face. Minister Nyiko Gudlhuza shared the word at our Midrand campus”

    The purpose of “walking with God”, discipleship, or whatever they call it, is not eternal life. Believers already have it, otherwise the comfort of the verse they cited does not exist. This doctrinal mush is very Warrenesque.

    When it comes to the clear preaching of the gospel, there are no first world countries. The lights went out worldwide because of gospel corruption. Church is theater.

  296. Jason, that does seem Pentecostal and Keswick all in one.

  297. I found the page of Berea Baptist Church in Nigeria, and they had this to say:

    So one day I was teaching the children’s class on Sunday and I told them they have the power of God in them and they can heal the sick and make the blind see if they want to. One of them then asked me: aunty are you talking about real life?? The truth is this is what so many children think. They have heard so many stories in the Bible and the truth is all it is to them is STORIES. One will say that “oh they are children, they can’t understand yet”. Please let’s stop that. Once a child is able to speak and understand right from wrong, there is nothing else that child can’t understand. There is no baby Version of the Holy Spirit. Children need to break away from fantasy to reality. I see children coming into a deeper understanding of the word. I see children expressing the gifts their father has bestowed upon them. I see children orchestrating great moves of the spirit.

    I know from common sense and experience that this is rubbish. I can’t do miracles. They are affiliated with the Nigerian Baptist Convention, which occupies the same part of the alphabet soup as the National Baptist Convention. They are not Bereans. I live in reality, they live in fantasy. They are indistinguishable from the Pentecostals. The NAR has absorbed all. Tripe about dying to self follows.

    For the teenagers, it’s a stage in their lives where self consciousness and society is the order of the day. I see teenagers dying to self and laying aside every distraction to chase after God and all He is.
    For the youths, it’s all about priorities and control. I see youths just making God their priority and letting go of everything they hold on to. I see youths free falling and trusting God wholly with their lives. Making God their only option. No plan B’s.
    In general I see God’s children coming in to a deeper understanding of God’s Love for them.

    It smells like Keswick. They go deeper than the Bible. Romans 10:7 need not apply. They quote from the New Lordship Translation:

    “Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭NLT‬‬

    I don’t know that verse. The Bible says nothing about “roots growing down”. Always deeper. There is also a Deeper Life Bible Church in that country. It featured on a photograph of a dilapidated high rise building that housed six other churches. It went viral. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.

  298. Jason – I think a lot of Spanish people have been in Roman Catholicism so it’s a natural segue over to load-ship sadly.

    John WI – I’ve been meaning to do an article on some of Spurgeon’s quotes, I cannot believe how much kickback you will get from those who profess grace. Please let him know that not only did Spurgeon say that Calvinism is the gospel, but taught turning from sin as part of receiving the free gift of eternal life. If you need some quotes and sources, let me know.

  299. JohnWI, it might be worth informing your friend that Spurgeon often undermined the gospel with his Calvinist/LS bent. I have found a lot of people who were oblivious to Spurgeon’s error, and others who have made excuses for it based on very superficial research.

  300. My missionary friend, who use to be a teacher at New Tribes Bible Institute, and as said he is free grace, is posting quotes of Spurgeon on Facebook. We help support is ministry, so I have been debating whether or not I should call him and ask him why.

  301. Jason, that is really sad. My Spanish isn’t very good. All I can think of is: “Spurgeon? No way Jose.”

  302. I had the misfortune of finding promotion of Spurgeon and Washer, in Spanish, on the page of a friend who has some of my Kenyan friends in common. I don’t know what to say.

  303. Jason, Rhema is extrabiblical revelation, which is why they don’t have respect for the written Word. As you can see from the long exchange in Bible Bereans on FB, he ignored Scripture and mostly came back with his own opinions. He was removed for lordship teaching.

    Be happy he blocked you, he was a false teacher, just as you said. I saw enough of him over the several exchanges in the group and on your page to see he was puffed up and thought of himself beyond Scripture.

  304. Jason, I have no idea what this guy means. The gospel is universal, and defending it is not looking down on anyone.

  305. This comment was said by a friend who showed his sharp teeth.

    “A good Christian is one who appreciates both logos and rhema. That’s what Iam. Every experience must be in agreement with what is written. So where is my fakeness my brother? Be careful with what you say about others. You have looked down upon Africans foe far too long. And now God is raising us. You will be surprised what God will do through me in your stagnant life. Be careful with your abuses. Iam not fake. I know something”

    Then he blocked me. Rhema refers to NAR teachings. He promoted experiences as a sign of genuineness. He and I were once on the same page, but he now he puts himself on the pedestal and is playing shell games with the gospel in the many comments that transpired. I don’t know what he means by looking down on people. I have been consistent with maintaining the gospel, as best as I could, and I desire that people know that they are sons, not slaves. Several of my other friends commented to me to say that his theology was inverted.

    One of his points: “at calvary Jesus says it is finished(all is paid for) no more need for brokers who can connect you to God,no more need for whipping yourself until you bleed to show remorse,no more need to buy indulgences,no more need for gospel pimps”. He concluded, “yes…he paid for everything”.

  306. Jason, you are right – using any behavior, including church attendance, as a litmus test for whether or not someone has eternal life is completely inappropriate.

  307. This picture comment was made on Trevor Noah’s page and attributed to Occupy Democrats.

    “If you believe that someone is:
    * a billionaire without seeing their taxes
    * a genius if they hid their college grades
    * a great business man if they bankrupted casinos
    * an irresistible ladies man if they have to pay for sex
    * a philanthropist if their charity was shut down
    * a patriot if they dodged the draft
    * a Christian if they don’t go to church
    * an innocent man if they refuse to testify

    You’re not just gullible, you’re a Trump supporter!”

    For the sake of the Gospel, I concede all points but one: if you believe that someone is a Christian that does not go to church, it does not make you gullible but a Berean.

  308. Jason, yes – “should” is consistent with grace.

  309. On a forum where people are talking about a revolution similar to the Yellow Vests, someone made this comment: “And d bible make us to understand that we should mend our ways”. It is interesting that he used the word “should”. That is consistent with grace.

  310. Holly, yeah, there were so many similar bad comments.

  311. Johninnc, they often mix and match the Sheep and Goat judgment with James 2. I’m so tired of hearing partial Bible verses used and abused.

  312. One from today:

    Again, the demons believe in Jesus. Belief isn’t good enough. The proper response is required, which is works of charity, especially charity to the very least of the brethren of Christ.

    My comment: Belief in Jesus as Savior IS enough to receive the free gift of eternal life. If works of charity were required, eternal life would not be a free gift. Believers SHOULD be loving and charitable, but works should never be used as a “litmus test” to prove eternal life.

  313. Africa isn’t the only place with false Messiahs. It is all over including China and Europe and of course America. We have plenty of false Christs and false prophets. We can just expose their evil deeds to the light with His Word.

  314. Jason, that is really twisted.

  315. I have recently stumbled upon some horrifying footage of a man being apparently paid to pose as Jesus at a Pentecostal church in Kenya. The man looks exactly like the Michelangelo painting of Jesus. This is not a passion play. They are actually worshipping the man as Jesus. I thought Owuor was the worst. This is sick.

  316. Jason, interesting quote. You are right that retaining eternal life isn’t dependent on any faithfulness on our part.

  317. This is a comment that a friend made concerning Leah Sharibu, a Bokkko Haram hostage: “How about her blood being on your neck for supporting Buhari and APC? I know human lives don’t matter to you jare, as long as God don sort you out. Anyway, if bokoharram arrest me and tell me to renounce Jesus I will do it, does it mean I’ve actually renounced him? Na my own I talk, my faith no reach that level”

    That level of honesty is rare. He is disgusted by hypocrisy in the churches and seems to understand correctly that eternal life is not dependent on his own faithfulness.

  318. Jason, it could give that implication.

  319. And the line about healing implies that I need to be at a deliverance service next Sunday. No thanks.

  320. Jason, the focus on change would imply people need to look to life change for evidence of eternal life.

    One is free from the penalty of sin and has eternal life the moment he believes in Jesus as Savior, even though he will still sin in this life.

  321. Why do I find tweets like this so annoying?

    “Religion doesn’t save
    Religion doesn’t change you
    Religion doesn’t heal you
    Religion doesn’t set you free

    Jesus does. In Him alone our hope is found”

    Change and healing are the very essence of religion. Count me out. And yet, if I know I am saved and set free, and I rest in that knowledge, my life changes from sadness to joy, and my bitterness is healed.

  322. Hobbs, agree. There is so much darkness out there!

  323. They’re pointing people away from The Saviour with these comments. Christ has already paid the price so we don’t have to go to hell. We trust in Him alone for our salvation, not ourselves.

  324. And another from “Renew Your Mind,” by Billy Davis, Ph.D.:

    The preponderance of evidence in the Scriptures clearly teach and show that a child of God can so sin as to be lost.

    I am convinced that the evil one will do anything within his power to see us in hell. And if making people believe that they can “coast in to heaven” without being a good and faithful servant, then he has succeeded! Let us make a concerted effort to enter in by the strait gate! To God be the glory!

    My comment: No. This is a heretical gospel of salvation by works.

  325. And this “gem” from “Redemption Gateway” in Mesa, Arizona:

    So what should we look to for salvation assurance?

    If we don’t put too much weight on any past decision, or a present understanding or even a future hope, how do we come to assurance of salvation?

    You use all of the above.

    Do you remember your life without Jesus and do you remember coming to him in repentance and faith at some point?

    Do you love Jesus right now and are you growing in love for him in your heart, mind, and soul? And is this love spilling over in your love for others?

    Do you long to be with Jesus? Do you long to be with him and experience an unhindered, face-to-face relationship with your savior?

    Assurance of salvation is a marathon not a sprint. Don’t try to cut the race short with quick answers. Let the reality of salvation play itself out in time. The author of Hebrews has a good word for us. “Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith.” Hebrews 12:1-2

    My comment: If the above is true, then a new believer could not possibly have assurance of eternal life. That would make John 5:24 not true, and therefore mean the Bible was not really the word of God. The above recipe for assurance is no assurance at all. It requires fruit inspection.

  326. John 6:47, I really doubt that he sees the contradiction.

    I found another one today from a guy named Jack Wellman, who is identified with the Brethren ministries:

    If you have never had a time in your life where you have repented of your sins, which means you have turned away from them and forsaken them, and then put your trust in Christ, God sees you as still be defiled and the judgment that awaits you is sure and certain (Rev 20:12-15).

    In another article, Wellman said this:

    People are not willing to deal with their sins and so they simply head down the easy path of destruction. The broad gate is broad because so many are going that way. It’s like an 8-lane expressway, but it’s going in the wrong direction. They, like I, needed to turn and go the other way (repent) and head down the narrow path, difficult as it is. Even though the narrow gate is difficult to take, at least there is “a” way. It’s better than no way at all. We should be thankful that God made a way through Christ. He had no reason for this, other than His love (Rom 5:6-10).

    My comment: People are quite willing to try to “deal with their sins.” Wellman is promoting “dealing with their sins” by trying to make a deal with God, rather than to accept that Christ has dealt with their sins.

  327. johninnc – I wonder if the person who wrote the “Christian Courier” thought about the contradiction of saying that a gift can be conditional. The Bible over and over calls salvation a FREE GIFT. A gift, by definition, is free, and yet God, knowing that man would have a hard time accepting what He says about salvation, put the word FREE with the word gift in the Bible.

  328. Chas, yeah – it’s one of the most miserable sites I’ve ever encountered.

  329. Johninnc, that is some major cognitive dissonance going on with that
    Christian Courier. One more “Christian” publication I don’t hafta read.

  330. From “The Christian Courier”:

    It is, however, a mistake of unfathomable magnitude that so many have adopted the view that this gift does not require a willing recipient who happily acknowledges that the gift may be undergirded by conditions. …

    A gift can be conditional! …

    Two important things must be emphasized at this point.

    Eternal life or “eternal salvation” is conditioned upon one’s obedience to the Lord (Jn. 3:36, ASV, ESV; Heb. 5:8-9).
    Fidelity must be maintained if one ultimately is to enter heaven (Heb. 3:12-19; 6:4-8; 10:26-31).

    My comment: Stay away from this rubbish!

  331. Jason, people often misuse scripture to undermine the gospel. They may throw the “what about”s” at you, or tell you that you need “the whole counsel of God,” or some other euphemism for trying to add works to the gospel. They may even call themselves “Bereans,” but their mindset is to read their preexisting belief in eternal life by works into scripture.

  332. A conversation ended with me saying: “I don’t need the word of Jesus. I need the gospel. You are irrelevant”.

    It is a shocking thing for me to say. He was going on and on with unnecessary works and knowledge and refused to accept me as a believer based on faith alone. He told me I need the word. When people tell me I need anything, I am like, nonsense. Whatever yada yada they have, I don’t need it. John 5:39 comes to mind. Of course they mean works. Reading the whole Bible is a work.

    He was also selling me baptism and telling me that Jesus is the Father. His country and political affiliation are irrelevant.

  333. JohnWI, I can’t fathom why anyone who has a heart for the gospel and who cares about the spiritual well-being of others would either favorably quote or recommend Spurgeon.

    Spurgeon was the standard-bearer of Calvinism/LS for his generation. He is still a darling of that set today, but also seems to get a pass from some who should know better.

    Favorably quoting Spurgeon (and so many similar others) undermines the gospel message.

  334. Jason, I’ve heard the term, although if there is a book I haven’t read it. If they want to be disciples, they might do better to listen to Jesus (John 8:31-32).

    I assume they speak of a couple of the NT passages about being crucified, likely Gal 5:24 (crucified the flesh with it’s passions and desires) but it speaks of walking in the Spirit vs. the lusts of the flesh. They can’t do that by finishing in the flesh that which God began in the Spirit.

    I like this one about being crucified from Gal 2:19-21

    For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

  335. Exactly.

    That “reverend” is far out.

  336. Jason, I’m not familiar with this guy or his book.

    I think I’ll give it a pass.

    Our postion as believers is that we were crucified with Christ and we are risen with Christ. As such, we are dead to sin (Romans 6:7)and alive unto God through Christ (Romans 6:11).

    The non-biblical term “crucified life” seems to confuse the two.

  337. Here is a reply to a Leftist fake pastor: “Anyone following @RevDrBarber able to recommend a contemporary, positive, progressive book on the HOLINESS of GOD, or THE CRUCIFIED LIFE? Thank you”

    And I am like: don’t need that. I live the liberated life. “Crucified life” is just as nonexistent in scripture as “repent of sin”. Paul preaches about our crucified position. “Crucified life” implies slavery. Those who preach it don’t live it.

  338. Jason, that sounds like a real eye roller.

  339. Lordship hip hop: My Temple by Bryann Trejo

    I found this song on someone’s Facebook page immediately after accepting a friend request. I only saw politics before accepting.

    This song is full of virtue signaling about diet. The singer boasts about working hard and claims to be free from sin. Tupac is a step up.

  340. Holly, that’s a really good question.

  341. John, on the heart transplant, why is it that they believe they have had one? They can’t know until they’ve ‘persevered until the end’…

    Yes, that’s what it is, they frequently use the passage from Ezekiel to ‘prove’ pre-regeneration (as I like to call it).

    Jason – too bad on the sign, hopefully people ignore it until they hear the truth.

  342. Jason, I have seen unequivocal statements that anyone who supports this or that political party can not be a Christian. It is just one more false litmus test of eternal life.

    The sign you saw was both wrong and inappropriate.

  343. The “conservative” comment makes me think of Adeola again. She does not appear to be a Trump supporter, but the Left makes her look conservative. Bokkko Haram and the NAR (fake pastors) bother her deeply. There are so many nuances of political opinion, and the left vs right grid does not account for everything. How “conservative” do they require you to be? Like LS itself, it’s void for vagueness.

    Today, I was watching the parade and saw this comment: “Repent of all your sin and ask God into your hearts. Jesus is coming soon. Please choose God”. We know how wrong that is. I also thought it was inappropriate street preaching.

  344. One from today:

    You can deny the evidence but it’s foolish to. The religious elite (Pharisees and Saducees) saw Christ in their midst and they denied Him. It takes a heart change to believe. A supernatural miracle and God is in the transplant business. Happy 4th my friend!

    My comment: This makes it sound like regeneration precedes belief. If one needs a new heart to believe, which God provides before belief, then God is responsible for providing or withholding one’s belief in Christ.

    This is classic Calvinist error. God desires that all men be saved, and eternal life, not faith, is the gift of God (Romans 6:23).

  345. Thanks Holly!

    I hope you and your family have a great 4th.

  346. Good comments Johninnc – I wonder if that person thought the incestuous adulterer of 1 Cor 5, or the drunkards at the Lord supper of 1 Cor 11 were conservative? Or for that matter what about Solomon and his wives and false gods?

    People seem to always be determining how someone is saved either by thought process or deed vs. belief or rejection of the gospel.

    So many people definitely believe water baptism is salvific. So then why didn’t Paul do it each and every time? Why did he thank God he didn’t?

    People just won’t hear the Word nor share the whole counsel of it (presumably they don’t know it). Thanks for some more good answers. Have a nice celebration on the 4th.

  347. Another excerpt from today:

    We also have to obey that gospel of death, burial and resurrection by obeying Acts 2:38. We must be born again of the water and the spirit.

    My comment: This person appears to think that one must be water baptized to be born of the Spirit. One has eternal life, that can never be lost or forfeited, the moment he believes in Christ as Savior. To add the requirement of water baptism to receive eternal life constitutes a false gospel of works.

  348. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    …all true Christians are conservative…

    My comment: This is a direct assault on the gospel. It literally means that there is a political litmus test that can prove that someone doesn’t have eternal life. This would mean that we can judge all non-conservatives as lacking eternal life, and that someone would have to assess their political beliefs for assurance of eternal life.

    This is completely non-biblical.

    Please note that I don’t want to start a political debate and that I will not entertain or post any political comments.

  349. Sometimes they think if they go in the opposite direction they’ll get it right. They look at the prosperity teachers preaching money coming to you, so they preach the opposite. Either way, it’s still error. Loving money we know is not good, nor depending on it. But your friend doesn’t have it right either sadly (as you know).

  350. Jason, this is a good request to ignore.

    It is true that Jesus would not change a Christian away from Him, but like you said, it is not necessarily true that everything around or about a Christian will change.

    This person has implied that one’s attitude toward money is a litmus test for assurance of eternal life.

    My guess is that he feels pretty good about his level of generosity.

  351. A post from a friend request that I have ignored:

    Many have denied and betrayed Jesus Christ because of money.
    You changed religion because of money.
    You are worshiping other gods because of money.
    If truly Jesus Christ is in you He will change everything around you but not money to change you from Him”

    If Jesus is in me, that does not guarantee that everything about me or around me changes. It is possible for a believer to be pierced with many griefs because of money. To some extent, that was me.

  352. Some of them also seem to think that no one will be able to buy or sell unless they take the mark – or, alternatively, have a big stockpile of physical gold.

  353. Jason,

    I know what you mean about misquoted verses, or taken out of context. Or even some of the OT passages that some might be spoken specifically to Israel or even enemies of Israel. Some I give the benefit of the doubt to, as maybe they’re learning the Scriptures. 1 Thess 4:17-16 is always comforting to me, even if they quote it, because it’s still His Word. And it’s meant for us ❤

  354. Johninnc, true, and their books and blogs. Of course you know that even secular people are selling condos in underground missile silos. Pretty interesting the world knows, and many who profess Christ know He’s coming again, but they deny the truth.

  355. Holly, I think that denying the pre-tribulation rapture is a key component of these peoples’ commercial enterprises. They have to sell people supplies to equip them for the tribulation. Otherwise, no sales.

    And, their concern about Christians taking the mark is unfounded.

  356. Johninnc

    I’m noticing a couple interesting trends with the preppers (on both sides).

    The ‘Christian’ ones think they’ll be here for the Tribulation, and of course dependent upon their eschatalogical position can think we’re here the whole time or some of the time. Basically even those who claim to believe in eternal security say those of us who are pre-Trib aren’t ‘prepared’, therefore we’ll somehow the mark.

    Kurschner, Rosebaum, Van Kampen, all have a similar attitude, and that is we are just wanting to ‘escape’ (presumably they’re all gung ho to be eaten by beasts, killed by the sword, famine, martyrdom etc.), and they seem to feel that somehow they are better qualified because they’ve read Rosenbaum or Van Kampen’s book 🙂

    For all these people it’s never enough that we believe He is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins. This is what they both have in common. They are capable of committing fully and giving Him control. They of course have renounced all their sins (except evidently pride and harshness and recognizing sin in their lives).

  357. Jason, I know what you mean. In the “doomsday prepper” site that I quoted from a couple of days ago, the guy used the first half of Romans 6:23, without even pointing out that there was a second half.

    The situation you cited in Africa sounds like abuse.

  358. The Gospel According to Bible Quotes

    Facebook and Twitter are full of Bible verses that take up entire short posts, with no commentary. Their favorite verses give a strong clue to their gospel. Most quotes are pointless. Anyone can go to a Bible site and find the verse without their help, so they are really saying nothing. It is just part of the picture parading. The verse is usually out of context just by being there. The accumulative effect of the verse quotes is to preach the Letter that Kills. If their favorite verses are from the Sermon on the Mount or the Parable of the Vine and the Branches, I can tell that they are LS. If I dig deeper, I inevitably find that they are affiliated with false teachers. At some point, they will explicitly deny grace.

    The only thing from Paul that they quote is to give your body as a living sacrifice. They turn even Paul into Law.

    If they quote Romans 10:10, they are Romans Road and probably love Franklin Graham.

    If they quote Acts 2:38 and the end of Mark, they are probably Church of Christ.

    Even if they quote John 3:16, they may quote discipleship verses elsewhere.

    If they really are about grace, they inevitably have interesting things to say. They do not treat their wall as a place to go scripture bombing. One had something sad to say about African Christians: their enslavement is worse than I imagined. They are overworked by the church misleaders and not allowed to take time off for family. Sexual sin includes not abstaining from one’s spouse when the man of god orders fasting. They have to pay “firstfruits” before tithe. I never knew that doctrine. After tithe, they have to sow seed, more money. They are slaves, not sons.

    If they quote 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18, it is not comforting at all. The unseen words are always, hurry up and believe a false gospel.

  359. I found the following on a “doomsday prepper” site today:

    But it is not enough just for you to intellectually know that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins.

    The Scriptures tell us that we must individually commit our lives to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. When we give our lives to Jesus, He forgives our sins and He gives us eternal life…

    Jesus asks that you give Him control of your life. That means renouncing all of the sin in your life and making Him your Savior and Lord. Just to know intellectually that Jesus died on the cross and that He rose from the dead is not enough to become a Christian…

    Are you ready to make a commitment to Jesus Christ?

    “Lord Jesus, I want to become a Christian. I know that I am a sinner, and I thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I believe that you are the Son of God and that you rose from the dead. I repent of my sins and I open the door of my life and ask You to be my Savior and Lord. I commit my life to You. Thank You for forgiving all of my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of my life and make me the kind of person that You want me to be. I will live my life for You. Amen.”

    My comment: Neither committing one’s life to Jesus, nor renouncing all sin, nor giving one’s life to Jesus are requirements for receiving the free gift of eternal life.

    This is very similar to the Southern Baptist Convention’s (SBC’s) false gospel formula, but packaged with a “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late” kind of appeal.

  360. Jason, there is so much confusion and what we once thought would not ever be believed, people would rather believe (a lie). Shaking my head, but I do that every day I go by posts on FB, and try to leave them with some Scriptures or this site, or my site, and just pray that someone might be saved from out of the fire.

  361. Jason, that is really out there!

  362. A crazy female pastor in Nigeria says that Titus fish and Vitamin C will cause you to miss heaven. The social networks are laughing. The deepest lie from the deep blue sea is Lordship Salvation, and this is one of its many applications.

  363. Good Jason, I’m glad you did!

    As we see daily, people are confused and carried about by every wind of doctrine. And they twist Scriptures to their own destruction (and those who are hearing them).

  364. Because of the confusion that I saw, I have ignored a friend request.

  365. Jason, I don’t even know what to say with all that nonsense they were spouting. I have been told before by mini-accusers of the brethren that I don’t have the Spirit.

    I hope you don’t spend much time in all that confusion, my head would be spinning.

  366. I agree John on the confusing teaching of that person.

    I think people who may (or may not) be sound sometimes tend to go beyond what it says in His Word by their own thoughts. I prefer just to have someone lay Scripture out without any confusing statements of their own. We know of course, He is not the author of confusion.

  367. Jason, you are right that we must be careful to avoid suggesting that believing in Jesus as Savior involves taking on any obligation. If grace is free, it is without cost or obligation.

    Believers are sons of God.

    And, the Copeland reference, in and of itself, is troublesome.

  368. This one is extremely subtle. In what follows, it sounds mostly right, but there are some things that make me extremely uncomfortable.


    Grace and Peace to you.

    Back to our thoughts and meditations on the subject: “Being Led by the Spirit Through Walking in The Spirit”.


    Rom 8:12 “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God”.

    Every person redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ is indebted, only to the Holy Spirit. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that we are redeemed, so we are obligated to live according to His dictates. We are indebted to Him to the tone of living the Spirit filled and the Spirit controlled life.

    My comment: we are debtors? This is another way of saying that Jesus did not pay it all. We are slaves and not sons. It sounds just awful. The scripture that he quoted doesn’t sound that way. The text says we are not debtors to the flesh, but it does not say what we are in debt to. It’s a debt of gratitude.

    He says we are obligated to live right. That is too strong.

    He goes on:

    We are not in any way indebted to the flesh. We are not to live according to the directives of our carnal mind (the flesh). We are free from the sin nature, the carnal mind (the flesh). Rom. 6:6-14.

    The Holy Spirit started the redemption work in us and it is through the Holy Spirit we can sustain it. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit we would kill the deeds of the sinful nature. We’re indeed sons of God when we depend on the Holy Spirit to dictate for us.

    My comment: we are sons only if we obey him? We often point out that disobedience does not cause a child to cease to be his father’s son. George Strait says in one of his songs that fathers do not love their children every now and then. The last verse of the song is about a sinner entering heaven by grace alone. He hears the song from the other side: “it’s a love without end, amen”. Are we better than God?

    Now he justifies his lordship comment by quoting the next verse of the passage:

    Rom. 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
    Exo. 33:14. “And He said, My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest”.

    The Holy Spirit’s leading is the presence of God in the lives of those He redeemed through the blood of Christ. We should therefore yield to the leadings of the Holy Spirit to sustain the work He did inside us.

    How do we yield to the Holy Spirit without stress? How do we live the Spirit filled and the Spirit controlled life?

    My comment: he is totally clueless about how to yield to the Spirit. His subtle suggestions get us focused on self and back under the law. The word Spirit-filled belongs in the Mess-Age with the other hyphenated words: god-energy, light-seeds, etc. It never occurs in the literal Bible translations. The whole article reeks of the false gospel of lordship salvation, Deeper Life, and other NAR doctrines of demons.

    The author has other posts quoting NAR men of god such as Copeland. This is a friend of Sharjeel. Strangely, the journalist that Surriya, Sharjeel and I follow never even satirically talks about the “Spirit-filled life” in her videos exposing goofy Christianity in Africa. She has seen enough of the madness that is called holy spirit. She is much more about being a humanitarian. And yet she confesses that Jesus is enough. She has a simple, childlike faith that inspires.

  369. Jason, I hope that you have helped them too!

  370. Last month, I had an amusing conversation on Discord. Lewis Adame likes to use it as an alternative to mainstream social media. Gamers like Discord. I first discovered it as part of a gaming community. A troll showed up and started virtue signaling and playing the race card. He also started street preaching in classical, fire and brimstone, lordship style. Commenters were saying that he was not there to “spread the faith”. The troll’s arguments included scripture bombing, dazzle-tastic pictures of the Borgia jesus, videos from NAR pastors, and accusations that I am a Bible denying atheist.

    During the grueling exchange, the troll said that I lacked the “holy spirit” and was not born again. I told him that I do not need a spirit to believe the gospel and I refused to address his issues. I did not want to be distracted from believing. The notion that I need the Holy Spirit in me to believe is nothing less than pregeneration. His holy spirit seemed to be a burning in the bosom. When fake pastors manifest its presence, my African friends mockingly call it the spirit of the African forest. It isn’t holy at all.

    A commenter said he used to be Protestant, used to pray in the morning, and used to have “spirit water”. I don’t know what he meant by that. Holy water in an Episcopal church?

    Another comment of his said: “hey [namecalling], also stopping the practice doesn’t mean you stop believing”. He seems to get it. He can clearly separate faith from these goofy practices, which is probably why he left church.

    The troll said: “but you fell away. Understandable, now you’re lost in sin. ok, makes sense”. Typical lordship insults.

    Another commenter said: “faith in christ, that’s the whole idea of being a protestant”. I don’t know about “protestant” anymore, but he has the right idea of being a believer. He also said he never stopped believing.

    The troll said: “Mind as well stop believing, both end up in hell”. This is how lordship manipulates. They never believe the believers.

    The first commenter said: “that’s not how it works” and “main purpose is to believe”. As we keep saying. Believing is not just the main thing but the only thing that results in receiving grace that saves.

    The troll said: “yeah but some people don’t repent and stop sinning”. Always a but.

    The two commenters appeared to have the childlike faith that I had before coming out of confusion. I hope that I have helped them.

  371. And I used to think that embracing and believing are equivalent.

  372. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today. Please note that I have bolded certain phrases for emphasis:

    The One who knew no sin, must now become sin. And He did. For homosexuals. For murderers. For child molesters. For you. For me. But though He did all of that so that we could live with Him, most will reject Him and prefer to hate Him who is good.

    This is who we identify with if we are Christian. We do not identify with our sins. I do not proclaim (if I were any of the following) that I am a homosexual or an alcoholic or an adulterer, a murderer. I would instead tell you that I am a Christian, a man of God who by His grace, saved me though I was at war with Him.

    I said all that to say this: Those who hate, who build their temples of flesh via perversions, hate, and the LIE, will consider not only us who exalt the Christ, but the Christ Himself as hate. The liars will call God, a liar. In other words, Satan and his minions have never and will never stop denying the Messiah and His sheep, like me. They have identified with their father, the Devil

    My comment: this one is really tricky. The writer seems to suggest that anyone who identifies with their sins identifies with their father, who is the Devil.

    Identifying with our new sinless nature and who we are in Christ is a constructive focus for Christians. However, failing to consistently do so is not a litmus test for who does, and who does not have eternal life.

    If it were, then we could readily determine that anyone who proclaims they are any one of these things does not have eternal life. And, an introspective person would feel compelled to ask themselves if they identify with Christ or with their sin.

    Jesus paid the full price for our sins, leaving us nothing to pay. He was raised from the dead, proving that His payment was accepted. Anyone who believes that has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited.

    The Bible does not say “whosoever believeth in Him and identifieth with Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

    Also, many people who identify as Christians have never believed in Jesus as Savior.

  373. One from today:

    The whole world has been deceived. Being deceived in itself is not an excuse or nobody would have to worry.They think that good people go to heaven and bad people to Hell(if they believe in Hell) but truth is we are all bad, and the only people that go to heaven are those of us that humble ourselves before Jesus, thanking Him for dying on cross for our sins, inviting Him in, and yes repenting to best of our ability

    Those that go to Hell are the ones that die rejecting Christs free gift.

    If we support abortion homosexuality, the removal of God/Christ from classroom Public square, then that is only evidence that we are still rejecting Christ

    My comment: This person mixes truth with error.

    We do not have to “thank Jesus for dying on the cross for our sins” in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. And, we don’t have to “invite Him in.” The commenter adds “repenting to the best of our ability,” which he never defines.

    He is right that those who end up in hell are those who have rejected Christ’s free gift.

    But, one’s attitudes and behavior have no bearing in providing “evidence that we are still rejecting Christ.”

    A person receives eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  374. Paula White does not have the gospel right. She doesn’t have the right authority either to pastor a church. And being an adulteress with Benny Hinn kind of shows her obedience may not be quite figured out yet, so if she’s relying on that for eternal life, she needs to be concerned. Too quickly we can be out of obedience, then what?

  375. From Paula White: “God comes into covenant with us because of our faith and obedience”

    That is not the Gospel. She never tweets it.

  376. Jason – you’re right. In the end we always need to keep our focus on the fact that the lost need saved….

  377. Johninnc,

    Thank you (regarding my latest article). I had someone really confused and in fear again for someone using certain terminology with her. I hope it was clear.

    John MacArthur has a sermon on ‘the only road to heaven’ and he sure doesn’t share the gospel but a HUGE and I mean vast list of conditions that NO ONE could be saved with.

    He seriously doesn’t get it.

  378. Holly, John MacArthur is bad news.

    Confessing sins is not a requirement for receiving the free gift of eternal life. Neither are any of the myriad conditions MacArthur tries to add to the gospel (turning from sin – which is included in MacArthur’s definition of repentance, willingness to obey, and so on). Not to mention that MacArthur teaches that faith (and repentance) are granted by God.

    By the way, I really enjoyed your latest article!

  379. John, Sharon most certainly has assumed the role of God in her judgment, and may not be considering where her final destination may be if she doesn’t come to know the truth. But many false teachers of today make similar comments.

    This one from John MacArthur may be a little more ‘polished’ than ‘Sharon’ but this is the type of cistern a lot of these people drink from.

    MacArthur says:

    “Here’s what God says, Confess your sin,
    Repent and embrace His Son as your only hope of salvation.
    That’s the first thing He says.
    And if you don’t agree to do that, you’re going to hell forever.”

    Where is the gospel in his quote? Where do we see confessing our sins as part of receiving the free gift of eternal life?

  380. Jason, very well put.

  381. I don’t want to guess what his affiliation is, lol. His party’s symbol might be Candace’s big tent or Pelosi’s broom. Or he might be shaking hands with the Conservative Mexican. But whatever. The enemy of my enemy is the lost soul who needs the gospel.

  382. Following is a comment I read today by someone going by “Sharon,” regarding a public figure with whom she disagrees politically:


    My comment: “Sharon” has assumed the role of God in judging whether or not this person has eternal life. Such comments undermine the gospel, and lead me to believe the commenters who are “defending the faith” may not really understand it.

    This is all too common, as many people will infer that God is a member of their pet political party (whichever that may be).

  383. Holly, yeah, I see a lot of the same mentality from professed atheists.

  384. John and Jason, agree.
    A lot of the atheists have quite a bit in common with the load-ship false doctrine. They think they’re good and better than others. Similarly to the Pharisee praying in the square.

  385. Jason, that is the place to be!

  386. And there’s always a sinner who thinks he’s better than you. I thought I was better than Museveni, and Wurmbrand thought he was better than me. Finally, I decided I had enough of the You Are Damned game and got on the grace train.

  387. Holly, it is a very common mindset – either be better than worse sinners or do enough good to offset any bad.

  388. Johninnc – that comment is sadly what a lot of people believe and they also don’t like to be compared to other sinners who are ‘way worse’. I have even heard some say if Hitler got to go to heaven, they don’t want to be there.

    They really don’t understand, not even one who makes a lie will enter heaven… (Rev 21:7)

  389. An excerpt from a comment to a political article today:

    My next door neighbor is concerned for my soul. To my knowledge, I have not cheated anyone out of anything, nor murdered, nor violated many of the ten commandments.

    My comment: Whoever wrote the above demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the gospel. He doesn’t seem to see his need for a Savior, as he thinks he’s been pretty good.

  390. Jason, it sounds like you were on the receiving end of a lot of misplaced anger. Politics, by its very nature, is dependent on numbers and consensus. Grace isn’t as popular as LS.

    I am glad that Sharjeel is committed to the truth of God’s grace.

  391. I was in a group called Jesus is the Only Way. It was 100% political, with zero doctrine. It was Trump supporting, from the right. The one post with doctrine denied OSAS and came straight from the admin.

    I was in there by accident. I had been asked three questions upon joining. I answered the questions by stating that Jesus is the only way and that Lordship is the wrong way. I was accepted. And straight off the bat, the first post was lordship from the admin, who goes by Joseph Saladino on Facebook. Abiding in Him twisted and all that.

    One of their posts said, essentially, turn from abortion or burn. I don’t hear this on Kevin’s Corner or at #walkaway rallies, where the message is that true tolerance is more likely to be found on the right and that the Democrats are the real racists. This was virtue signaling from the right. I couldn’t take it. I let them know. I left permanently. Another member left and expressed appallment at the works salvation preached.

    One of the admin’s comments to me was: “[my full name] it has a lot to do with it you Hellbound baby killing coward you don’t stand up for the kids for righteousness you’re an evil buffoon repent bye-bye fool enjoyable baby killer”.

    I never said I was for abortion. I had asked what abortion had to do with Jesus is the only way. I felt like I was in a racist, bigoted, intolerant group, just as the Left accuses us. Probably connected to the NAR, which ought to be judged by the same logic as that applied to Klanned Parenthood. They have destroyed the black church. Adeboye, Suleman, and Bushiri peddle their demonic doctrines. Adeola, Sowore, and Daddy Freeze exposed them. But I digress.

    The admin was so triggered that he commented on my own post, where I had shared a grace based thought of an African who goes by Ninyo. He had a vision of a pastor whose Bible turned into a gun and started shooting the sheeple. It symbolizes the genocidal character of the lordship fake pastor who drags them back to the Old Covenant. I added my own comment: “the Gun is the master, sheeple slave”, making reference to the lyrics of a Bobi Wine song, where “the Gun” originally referred to a dictator. The admin commented: “enjoy hell babykiller”. Lordshippers are pro-life when it comes to babies, pro-death when it comes to refugees from the penalty of sin. That guy was sick.

    Not long after that weird incident, another user showed up and liked many of my comments, including the post about the gun.

    Last week, Sharjeel visited me from Nigeria. We went on a road trip and visited Jim Floyd. He talked about a ministry that he does there and set my mom at peace about me going. I am excited about the opportunity to be involved. Sharjeel knows about Ron Shea and is committed to the truth about God’s grace.

  392. Jason, you have summarized it well.

    LS is the disease and the rest of it is just symptoms. There are lots of people who give up one false religion for another.

  393. Someone comments: “The Message of Repentance and Salvation is NOT a Church Doctrine BUT The WAY To Heaven”

    It doesn’t say much. By repent they always mean of sin.

    Someone replied: “Nowonder its full of false and unbiblical doctrines…I wonder how it leads to heaven”

    He gets it. Lordship is full of unbiblical doctrines in a zillion variations: “jesus only” baptism, reprobation, calvanism, oneness heresy, get your miracle, and Owuorism. How can sheer chaos lead to heaven? Easy-believism is straight. People are coming out of lordship cults still believing lordship. It it the disease. The rest is symptoms.

  394. John – I didn’t see the date on when you are going on hiatus, but I read your other two comments on Roman Catholicism and the atheists. It reminded me of a couple of similar things I’ve seen lately. They think they are ‘apologists’ and what I find happens is they can do a good job of convincing someone to their way of thinking, just like a good attorney. But like all debates, it’s not necessarily truth on either side.

    I rarely see the true gospel posted in this discussions, but every now and then someone will. Apologetics tends to have a lot of proof texts which may be relevant, but people often don’t know the underlying context from His Word so at the very least it’s lacking substance or more often downright accursed.

  395. John, I see so many of those kinds of sites throughout the internet.

    One thing I’m noticing that is disturbing is some of the people that claim to understand grace are compromising and hanging out with those with a false gospel. Some say, ‘we don’t see eye to eye on everything, but they’re my brethren’. I don’t know if they are or aren’t, but not likely with their false gospel.

    One additional interesting thing is that these same people are calling those of us who defend the truth of the gospel ‘divisive’. Of course the Bible says it is those who bring false teachings are the ones who are doing that (Rom 16:17; Titus 3:10-11).

  396. The site you describe sounds pretty hard core Pentecostal. They at some point will probably try to pressure for money. Sounds like they base salvation on works, entire sanctification, and experiential Spirit presence. Since all this has to take place tithing and giving must follow as part of a “true” believers works.

  397. One from today:

    Evangelicals are heretics, pure and simple. That does not mean they are all bad people. They are without communion with the Church.

    My comment: this comment was written from a Roman Catholic perspective. Some people who identify as evangelicals are heretics, but not for the reason the commenter cited. If anyone teaches a false gospel, he is a heretic.

  398. I just read a bevy of comments to an article in a back-and-forth between professed Christians and professed atheists.

    I never saw any comments from any of the professing Christians that talked about how to have eternal life.

    In a thread to another article, I saw “turn or burn.” No gospel, just a religious regurgitation of 19th century Spurgeonism posing as the truth.

  399. We have recently received a semi-barrage of spam comments pushing a certain website that purports to promote salvation through Jesus, but is instead a virulent attack on the gospel. I won’t mention the site here, but this is the general approach:

    1. Reference current events to biblical prophecy
    2. Give arguments as to why there is a God
    3. Try to convince people that the Bible is the word of God
    4. Provide a false gospel that conditions eternal life on forsaking sin, obeying Jesus, and asking God (repeatedly, if necessary) to give you the Holy Spirit. Also, remaining saved is conditioned on refraining from sin, and walking in the Spirit.

    It is basically a “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late” message. The comments started with more vague language, but have become increasingly prescriptive as to how to gain and keep eternal life.

    Satan is willing for people to believe as much as possible about the Bible, without their actually believing in Jesus as their Savior.

  400. That particular one did not have LS on his wall. He was addressing fake pastors that talk about heaven while ignoring the needy, typically Pentecostal, WOF, and NAR. It was on a political group. He probably understood where I was coming from.

  401. Jason, although I didn’t mean it the way it sounded, you are right, your gospel is never wasted even if that particular one didn’t see it, I always believe there is a reason and that it comes with power.

  402. Jason, I think it’s always good to share the gospel, and I don’t think it’s in vain.

  403. Leaving a like is the online equivalent of raising your hand. But I am not saying I am sure of anything. I hope that my sharing of the gospel is not in vain.

  404. Jason, I’m unsure if you were saying Azeez ‘liked’ your post or not, but trust me when I say, accursed teachers who are teaching false gospels only ‘like’ a post because the higher the number of ‘likes’ on most social media drives more people to see the post. Not just FB, but comments on websites too.

  405. Here is something interesting. Azeez Ademola has some interesting posts in a certain group. One piece of his satire said, “Nigeria fire service is in heaven, and that’s why when fire occurs, we dial ALLAH or JESUS, while d US dial 911” (originally in all caps, and the name of the country was abbreviated).

    Azeez is usually reminding his audience of James 2:19 and is speaking of practical matters. All talk and no action is uninspiring.

    I shared Ralph Yankee Arnold’s video, “Why the cross is about fire insurance”, and received a like. We are on the same page about both matters. Once again, grace resonates.

  406. Chas, yes, the Roman Catholics have all sorts of sacraments added to the free gift of eternal life. It’s really sad because they’ve had it drummed into their heads that the Catholic church is the only way to be saved, and they are afraid to look into the truth in His Word. They still are taught they can’t know it without guidance from the Catholic Apologists or Priests.

  407. Jason, yeah. They were becoming a distraction.

  408. I think I noticed some comments were deleted, lol.

  409. johninnc said:

    “they believe part of the gospel. They may believe that Jesus is God, that He died on the cross, and that He was raised from the dead. They might even say they believe that He died for our sins. But, they don’t really understand that His payment for our sins was complete. In other words, they think they must, or may have some ‘contingent righteousness,’that if they would really try, could help atone for their sins.”

    That describes Roman Catholics exactly.

  410. Brad, you brought up a number of good points.

    I would like to add some of my thoughts to a couple of them.

    You said: The thing about soul winning I’ve realized is that the person has to be aware they need saving in the first place.

    My comment: Yes. That is why talking to religious people can be so difficult. They may have a variety of beliefs about their inherent goodness, or lack thereof. But, they think that their religion will, can, or might save them. So, they are fearful of letting it go. Such people know they need a savior, and think they may have found it in their religion.

    Jesus addressed this need in Nicodemus by telling him that unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

    You said: Is this why God’s drawing is such a necessity?

    My comment: Yes. I think that God works in all sorts of ways in peoples’ lives to convince them of their need and his solution. It is through God’s word that people come to faith, and His word often must be delivered by someone who understands it (like with Philip and the eunuch).

    You said: That’s the problem with works for salvation beliefs of all kinds, they naturally cause a person to see themselves as “good” in their own efforts.

    My comment: Some people see themselves as good in their own efforts. Others don’t really think their efforts will be effective, but they don’t really trust in Christ as the solution. This includes people who think that Christ is necessary for salvation, but that He is not enough. In other words, they believe part of the gospel. They may believe that Jesus is God, that He died on the cross, and that He was raised from the dead. They might even say they believe that He died for our sins. But, they don’t really understand that His payment for our sins was complete. In other words, they think they must, or may have some “contingent righteousness,” that if they would really try, could help atone for their sins.

    Whatever the case, these are some of the false beliefs to which all the different variations of the false gospels of “Christ plus works for eternal life” appeal.

    You said: No wonder it said at the end of Ephesians 2:9 “lest any man should boast”.

    My comment: Yeah. That makes it plain that no man could ever contribute to his eternal salvation.

  411. I have to say johninnc. After this long discussion with my uncle I had been having; I completely understand why you moderate the comments the way you do here. Especially for people who are in error and only interested in pushing their errors on others. I remember way back last year when my uncle first emailed me. I started off by asking simple questions: “Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?” he replied yes. Then I asked “Do you believe anything else besides the Bible is also the Word of God?” he answered yes. Correct me if I’m wrong – but I think I should have stopped replying right there and then.

    The thing about soul winning I’ve realized is that the person has to be aware they need saving in the first place. So then sometimes the bad news has to be given before the good news. What’s the best way to do that in person? It seems a little strong to open with “hey buddy, you’re going to Hell”. Because it is such a common perception that Christians just use fear to get people to believe them. But at the same time they actually should be afraid or at least concerned. Is this why God’s drawing is such a necessity?

    The discussion with my uncle became so complicated that it was actually beginning to affect me mentally. I was spending all of my emails just cleaning up after his mess, only for him to ignore it all and palm it off as nonsense and keep going. So I blocked him and deleted all of our emails. Nobody should ever have to read what I read from him. No one.

    I simplified the situation for those who know the Truth and those who don’t. Metaphorically; we are standing on a solid immovable rock that is surrounded by a raging river of water. Those in error are in that water, but they believe that they will be able to keep their heads above the water level forever by their own efforts. When they inevitably start to sink from exhaustion, those who are willing to admit to their error eagerly get on the rock, but those who are too consumed by their pride would rather sink and drown, before ever having to admit to their error.

    That’s the problem with works for salvation beliefs of all kinds, they naturally cause a person to see themselves as “good” in their own efforts. The longer they believe such errors the more prideful in their apparent “good” state they become. Their pride, if left unchecked, makes them feel good and their “good” works become to them as a drug fix is to a heroin addict. Then they don’t want to let go of their addiction to their pride and would rather go to their graves, than ever quitting it.

    No wonder it said at the end of Ephesians 2:9 “lest any man should boast”.

  412. Yeh Holly. It is funny that the very verses that warn of them are the same verses they use to make us more aware of them. They don’t know that we know and they expose themselves to us by not knowing that they are doing so. Because we know that they don’t know that we know. I know that this is a challenge to read, but they don’t know why this is a challenge to read. Because they don’t know what we know. Their irony is a challenge to not know, because we already know what they don’t know, and knowing is half the battle. The other half is their battle against knowing that two halves make a whole. A whole is not known by them. But we know a whole is what they don’t know. Because they are halves, seeing nothing but words on a page. But we know they are not just words on a page. They are words requiring a whole in order to be understood. But they see a half as a whole. Because they have never seen the other half. They see nothing because they don’t see everything. Knowing this, we can know the whole, by rejecting the halves that don’t know that they don’t know. They are the ones who expose themselves by not knowing. But we know they don’t know. And knowing them is the other half of the battle. If you know, then they know nothing in your view. Because your view is of the whole. The whole they have never known to be knowable. Because they do not know what they think they know. And what they think they know is that we don’t know. But we know their knowing is not knowledge. It is no knowledge that they know best. They know what I mean. Because they believe not knowing knows no bounds. So they don’t know that they know what I mean. They don’t know. Do you know that they don’t know? Because they do know one thing, and that is nothing. If nothing was something, they would know everything.

  413. Lewis Adame, the Conservative Mexican, has a video called, What’s Your Darkest Secret. In the comments, I shared my story, how I was redpilled about lordship, relating especially the NAR and fake pastors. It wouldn’t be appropriate to paste the whole comment here. Suffice it to say that he intimated agreement by saying: “the corruption of the church. A sign of what is to come if we don’t wise up”.

  414. Brad, so ironic, the passages you used on the false teachers looking like the sheep. Yet the very thing the fruit inspectors use to see if someone is ‘truly saved’ is outward appearance and good works.

  415. Their group has the Five Solas as their statement of faith. I reminded them that the Five Solas is clear on the gospel, and they aren’t, to no avail. No repentance in the Five Solas, even though it is classic “Reformation” stuff. Figure that.

  416. Jason, and it’s likely her definition of repent was “turn from sin.”

  417. And then I got banned for arguing against lordship. One of them told me that John 3:16 says to repent and believe in the Greek. I called her out on it. After more grueling argument, she eventually admitted that she made a mistake. I said it was ok. A few hours later, they removed me. Their posts are filled with MacArthur and Washer.

  418. Jason, that is really ironic.

  419. I was in the group Exposing NAR Heresy on Facebook. Someone advertised MacArthur’s book on Paul. She said, “give it a read”. I said I give it a pass. And she liked my comment. What happened, lol?

  420. Jason, yes, that is quite the contradiction! I once heard someone at a crowded event announce over a public address the opportunity to come “earn free stuff.”

  421. Someone tweeted a picture of a sign that said, “Free medical check-up for eight thousand naira only”. Reminds me so much of the contradictions of LS, not to mention corruption (2 Corinthians 11:3).

  422. Brad, yeah, much of professing Christendom approaches scripture with trying to read into it their pre-existing belief in receiving eternal life by works. It’s just not in there.

  423. Yep. God gave us a single book containing everything we NEED to know. To never stray from that book is to remain protected from error.

    But if you’re going to read it out of context and only with the interest of twisting it to suit your false beliefs, you might as well be reading Harry Potter. The result will be much the same. Error.

  424. Brad, you are right that the Bible says that false teachers will look like the real deal. That is why the “gospel” being espoused by anyone must be compared to God’s word.

  425. Considering that the Biblically accurate definition for “Christian” is someone who has trusted in Christ alone for salvation… then no, only a very small percentage of those who wear the “Christian” label are actually Christians.

    “Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.”
    ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    The term “Christian(s)” is a label accepted by God in His Word as seen in these 3 times it is mentioned there. So many other labels and group names are not in God’s Word – like “Catholic”, “Calvinist” and “Mormon” for a few examples. These false groups just call themselves something they really aren’t at all. They have changed the definiton of what a Christian is and have deceived many men and women in doing so, but God’s definition of a Christian will always remain the same.

    Satan has his puppets teaching lies while wearing the “Christian” label outwardly. They are against God while claiming to be for God.

    “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
    ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬

    “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Note the repeated emphasis on false teachers looking like the real deal. Even mentioning Satan himself. In the first passage it tells us to not be surprised about this either; “And no marvel”, “Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness”.

    The only effective lie is the lie that succesfully appears as truth, otherwise the lie fails. No person in history (I hope) has ever been deceived by a lie that made zero effort to conceal what it is to them:

    “Hey buddy unicorns are real, but what I just told you is a lie” fails immediately to convince anyone because it is a lie with no disguise.

    But what about:

    “Hey buddy unicorns are real”… now the lie has the disguise it >needs< in order to (at least) be considered by people, because no declaration of it being a lie is made – the implication being that the existence of unicorns is the truth.

    “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Note the words "many" and "few". Many wear the label "Christian", but few actually ARE Christians.

  426. Jason, I tend to agree with you. It is unlikely that large percentages of populations of any nation are Christians.

  427. From Freedom Force Battalion. “Traitors Have Mark of the Beast”. YouTube, Mar 20, 2019.

    This lady reveals a dirty secret: the three largest Christian nations are USA, Brazil, and Russia. Bolsonaro gets a mention. She cites a statistic: Russia is 80% Christian, with “faith in Christ”. I call baloney. Most professing Christians do not know the gospel, and Russia is mostly the farthest removed denomination from grace: Eastern Orthodox.

    Every once in awhile, I keep tabs on Q. It’s a mixed bag. John 3:16 is sometimes quoted, and other times one gets Romans railroaded. Eschatology aside, the most important thing of all is being downplayed and muddled.

  428. katmazdobelieve

    I just checked in today and the conversation was edifying. Thanks to all of you.
    I am praying for everyone.

  429. Holly, yes I was being a bit rash citing that verse without checking context, I heard it recently and it stuck in my mind. Thanks for your thoughtful replies despite what you are having to deal with, have prayed for your situation.

  430. Hobbs, that is spoken to a nation under the law, and Christ is the end of the law for those of us who believe. If we look at that verse in context, the likelihood is that this is a non-believing Israelite, similar to the Pharisees who pray to be seen of men, but their hearts aren’t seeking God, nor do they believe upon Him. But whatever way it is spoken of, they did not have the same mediator that we do, Christ, who is both King and Priest (along with prophet) and as John said we have an intercessor who always prays for us.

    I do know the condemnation we can bring, but remember again, we are not under the law, so just asking Him to help us along as we try to walk in the Spirit vs. the lusts of the flesh always helps. And I believe as we just trust Him in that, spend some time with Him in His Word and in prayer, it is the good thing we’ve chosen and it won’t be taken from us.

    I know some of the Word seems scary, but we have to ask, is this speaking of our position or our walk? Or we might ask, is this speaking of being justified to eternal life, or one who already is who needs to walk in the Spirit so that we can be justified in the sight of others, thereby being an example for others to follow? Or does this speak to eternal salvation or a physical or temporal deliverance from something?

    Anyways, that has helped me a lot as I look at who is being spoken to. Obviously we want to do right in our new man, but we do war with the flesh. One day we’ll be delivered of that too.

  431. John, thanks for encouraging reminder re. Romans 8:26.

  432. Jason, agree that “asking Jesus into your heart” as the way of receiving eternal life is not biblical.

  433. Right, I meant Revelation 3:20. I usually see it as a prooftext for the tired old “ask jesus into your heart” nonsense.

  434. Jason, I’m assuming you meant Revelation 3:20.

    I don’t think that Romans 10:10 should be included in a gospel presentation, because it gives the impression that verbally or publically confessing Christ is necessary to receive eternal life, which is not true.

    Revelation 3:20 is viewed by most free grace proponents as a call to believers for a more intimate fellowship with Christ. That view makes a lot of sense.

    It also would be consistent with grace to view “open the door” in Revelation 3:20 as a metaphor for believing in Jesus as Savior. That would only make sense if Revelation 3:20 was not part of the letter to the church at Laodicea (in other words, if it followed the letter to the church at Laodicea and was an appeal to non-believers).

    In any event, the problem with using Revelation 3:20 as part of a gospel presentation is that it is so easily misused and misunderstood to imply that one needs to desire a relationship with Jesus in order to receive eternal life. Desiring a relationship with Jesus is not a condition to receiving the free gift of eternal life. And, people imbed all sorts of works into the meaning of desiring to have a relationship with Jesus.

  435. I really hate it when people share salvation verses with me and they include the Disciples’ Prayer, Romans 10:10 and Revelation 10:20. And they are people with whom I have shard the gospel. They have been Romans Railroaded.

  436. Hobbs, I know our minds can wander sometimes. We can be comforted by remembering that the Spirit intercedes for us in prayer (Romans 8:26) when we don’t even know what we should pray.

  437. Yeah, it’s easy enough for your own mind to condemn you at times, thinking God has cursed you or something, without other people actually saying such terrible things. Sometimes I find the Bible itself quite scary, for instance the bit about ‘even his prayers are an abomination’, if one is in a very low state things like that can get a hold and you start wondering if God isn’t answering your pleas because you’re really reprobate and such. The mind is a very tricky thing.

  438. Holly, that is abominable. I am sorry that you experienced the abuse from these mean-spirited people.

  439. Johninnc, Most of those types when you ask them what the gospel is won’t even share it with you. I have literally asked, would you mind sharing the gospel with me? They refuse. I will ask three times, and even of pastors, one said I was trying to trick him. I told him I truly wanted to know what he thought the gospel was. He refused.

    I share the gospel each time when they refused, telling them, how we cannot refuse to share the good news with others if they ask, and even if they don’t.

    Another thing that many of those who see things this way do, is suggest that because you have problems, sicknesses, or trials in your life, that it is because you are 1) unsaved or 2) being punished by God.

    I understand chastening, but some seriously believe that it’s all from God (sickness, problems, trials, etc.). One cult (believe they were hyper-Calvinists) told me that God killed my husband because he didn’t have the Spirit, and that God struck my dad with a stroke (in his 80s) and my mom with cancer (in her 80s) because they didn’t have the Spirit. Literally these were three leaders in the ‘ministry’ who stalked me on Facebook and saw one of my parents journals from their last mission and found out the info on the stroke and cancer.

    Enemies of the gospel…

  440. Holly, yeah – I’ve seen/heard more than one person imply that anyone who isn’t happy, or even who is bored doesn’t have eternal life. This kind of mindset would require one to assess his level of happiness to corroborate whether or not he had eternal life. That is really a dead end.

    And, as you said, he didn’t make much sense. For example, “trying” to be a “real Christian” doesn’t really make sense, given that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  441. Jason

    The best thing for us all obviously, is to stay far away from videos that are not sound, teachers, cults, etc., marking and avoiding and then staying away.

    When I do research on them, I try to do it in small sections, staying in the Word more than ever, because twisting God’s Word is the job of the accuser of the brethren, and he’s quite good. Some is ever so slight, so it’s best to stay in the light and not get near the darkness. We expose it, but I sure try not to spend much time in it, it is exasperating, maddening, and depressing actually reading their lies. We will know them by their fruit, but I don’t want to be around the stench for long.

  442. Johninnc, sadly, the guy doesn’t make much sense. Grammatically in places it’s kind of hard to see what he’s trying to say. But I can catch the assumptions that you commented on, I also noticed he pats himself on the back for being constantly busy serving others. And it also seemed like he was bragging about being treated like a weird misfit (his words).

    While we know we are a peculiar people, and that we are set apart, and that in this world we will always have tribulation, the Bible doesn’t say all will see us as a weird misfit. Some will see the Light in us and be drawn to it as Jesus encouraged us to let our light so shine before men that they might see it and glorify our Father in heaven.

    Unfortunately, I think a lot of times people do their ‘religion’ in public, praying long prayers in restaurants and then mistreating waiters and waitresses. Or they think praising God is saying ‘praise God’ or ‘Hallelujah’ every time someone speaks. I’m not trying to make someone uncomfortable for using those words, just seeing people use them in situations where people are so sick of the ‘religious’ and it just drives them away further by their behavior. We can speak about God by following the example of the disciples in Scripture (or so I believe) and it was knowledge of the Word that they gave to these people. The Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I guess I rambled a bit, was just thinking of some of the situations I’ve been in with these types and the harm I’ve seen done.

  443. Following is a comment that was in response to an article about early retirement. I selected it for discussion, because there is subtle undermining of the gospel throughout the comment. I have made the quotes from the article in bold, to distinguish them from the commenter’s points:

    I’ve always enjoyed your Financial Samurai advice and applied it to my finances…but i’ll break down your problem with the all mighty dollar. 1) You will suffer an identity crisis for an unknown period— NO find yourself you forgot to do spiritual planning 2) You will be stuck in your head…not if you apply what you’ve been blessed with – i constantly busy with not enough hours in the day -serving others and sharing is the key…where did your wealth come from, it was a blessing. 3) People will treat you like a weird misfit. Yes that is great…being a real christian makes you different but until you do it you wont understand. 4) You’ll be disappointed that you aren’t much happier. Until you find something bigger and better than yourself JESUS CHRIST! what your missing the true meaning of life. 5) wonder no more whether this is all there is to life

    My comment: While inordinate focus on financial concerns is shortsighted, believing in Jesus as Savior does not guarantee that a person will never feel bored and will always feel happy and content.

    Serving others is a very good thing to do, and it can be joyful and rewarding. However, chiding someone who you think has neglected these matters when you have no idea, and contrasting that by publicly patting yourself on the back for your own good works is not a good thing to do.

    Being a “real Christian” has nothing to do with doing anything. It has to do with whether one has believed in Jesus as Savior. If so, that person is a “real Christian,” no matter what they do or don’t do. If not, that person is not a “real Christian,” no matter what they do or don’t do. People won’t be able to tell whether or not one is a “real Christian.” If they could, fruit inspection would be a good idea, rather than religion’s attempts to insinuate works into the gospel.

    And, to ASSUME that someone who has said they thought they would be happier when they retired has not “found Jesus” presumes that the commenter can tell whether or not another person has eternal life. This is self-righteousness, plain and simple.

  444. In the last eight months, I somehow got so distracted by the fake pastors that I got my mind off of NAR. Yet the NAR installed the fake pastors. The result makes it obvious,. Every church calls itself apostolic. The seed faith nonsense is everywhere. When they toke the spirits in Africa, discerning Christians call it voodoo. Contemplating the connection is horrifying.

  445. All these people: Hunt, Michaelson, Ankerberg, Lindsey, and others like Jan Markell, or any of those who have fairly well known blogs or shows do not call each other out. It has to get fairly bad for them to have an interest in doing so because they feel like they’re not as bad as some of the others. But evidently they seem to miss their own doctrinal issues.

  446. Regarding Dave Hunt and the other fella sitting silent
    They don’t challenge for fear of the confrontation or they believe similarly to the one spouting the heresy.

    The broad way is full of people believing they are saved but aren’t. As of late, it has really been bothering me that even though some believed at one point in nothing but Grace have been deceived and now have barred the way to heaven because of errant belief. I didn’t believe the Gospel until I came here.
    Thank GOD that all of the attempts, which were few, at sharing the LS heresy, while laboring under its delusional, were unsuccessful.

    Two more things
    A memory was jogged again. Funny how that works.
    While I attended a “cowboy” church a couple of years back the youth pastor recounted his salvation experience and his attempts as seeing people saved at a local biker rally. This biker rally was really a deal as it draws in people from all over the country. They, the church, set up their tent at the rally to spread the gospel. Not many were saved. I realize now because the news they preach is just another form of legalism.
    Those men and women that attend those rallies aren’t looking for reformation of their lives to save them. I think if the actual gospel would have been presented more people would have been saved. Maybe not but it saddens me to think that so many probably walked away more disillusioned with “Christianity”. This youth pastor’s salvation experience sounds like something from a fiction novel right down to hearing the literal bonds in his life breaking, like chains breaking. It is more in depth than that but I don’t want to get into it.
    Second thing
    In my Youtube recommendations was a video about the supposed errant belief of OSAS. The metrics for like and dislikes were turned off as well as the comments being disabled. I guess they probably couldn’t handle the criticism of actual believers debating the truth with them. I am grateful that Yankee’s and Cuccuzza’s videos allow comments to be on so that way when people come with their false beliefs try schooling the OSAS believers then they, those that believe the actual gospel, can share the truth with them.
    Anyway that is enough from me
    Hope the break does you some good, Johninnc
    As always you are all in my prayers.

  447. Fryingpan, very good point. Comments like that should be challenged by anyone interested in defending the gospel.

    It reminds me of the 700 Club. No LS comment is ever challenged.

  448. Re John Ankerberg . . . Let their words and deeds shed some light.

    From time to time I watch an old video of his program where he had Joanna Michaelson and Dave Hunt on as panel guests. I watch it because of research I do from time to time on occult influences in the church. I’ve talked about Dave Hunt extensively on other threads. He was NOT clear on the gospel in spite of him being one who could be quoted as believing in “Salvation by grace in faith alone by Christ alone.”

    I was re-watching this last week (it had been at least a year, probably more like 2 or 3 years) since the last time I watched it. At one point Joanna Michaelson starts spewing the typical LS tripe of, “After I became TRUE Christian and a TRUE believer” (or whatever the heck she actually said) it was obvious she believes in some form of front or back-loaded “gospel”. Not a peep out of Dave Hunt or John Ankerberg whereas about 98% of anyone who reads and posts here would have been like, “Now, wait a minute here. Are you suggesting we can only know we have eternal life by the quality of our faith or by the quality of our Christian walk?”

    The things they don’t say can sometimes be just as revealing as the things they DO say . . .

  449. I didn’t realize that my friend’s quote originated from a first century fake pastor called Tertullian. I thought it was just stuff that goes around.

  450. William, I am not personally familiar with John Ankerberg. I am generally highly-supsicious of prominent TV preachers, because grace doesn’t seem to draw a broad audience. I found two comments in our history that mention him, and not in a positive way. Please see below:

  451. A friend posted: “you cannot parcel out freedom in pieces because freedom is all or nothing”

    I could say the exact same about grace. LS loves to chop in bits and pieces, and makes pieces of you in the process.

  452. John, What is your opinion on John Ankerberg? Is he Free Grace and is he sound in his doctrine?

  453. Jason, the church that was the subject of the comment that you referenced had a lot of bad influences.

    Given that, it seems highly likely that many of the regular attendees would be unclear as to how to have eternal life.

  454. Joel Comiskey was mentioned in this comment:

    I had the misfortune of finding him on Twitter. He even briefly followed me if I recall. One of my followers likes my anti-lordship tweets but also follows Comiskey. He raises the following red flags. He has 32 books. He leads cell churches.

    I once was in a Bible study that felt like a cell group. It didn’t feel comfortable. They ask too many personal questions. They disciple you. They mislead you. They rule you. I’m introverted, and introverts don’t belong. I like being in a small group where I can talk about my life because I can, not because I have to. Comiskey wants to be one of these rulers. I don’t know how to describe it. MacArthur follows the same model. The WCG exit support site condemns it as dialectical materialism. Well, good for them. It’s fake friendliness. I get a whiff of it and run. Others get sucked in and abused. I hear all sorts of horror stories. My job coach turned dietary tormentor felt similar.

    On Twitter, most of Comiskey’s stuff was consistent with grace. But he retweeted commenter1. Commenter1 talked about following jesus and added that it is the narrow way that leads to life. Commenter1 and the above mentioned friend follow each other. I straightened commenter1 out and she thanked me for it. She came from a background that denied OSAS. She said she preferred the truth.

    Commenter2 followed me shortly after. I can’t recall what tweets of mine she had liked. She has a foreign surname. When I check, her timeline is filled with AAC, punctuated with Comiskey. She had also retweeted commenter1’s awful comment. The poor soul does not discern that Comiskey is an American fake pastor. She too probably appreciated my correction.

    Meanwhile, one of the Truth Channel’s prophecies failed, on Feb 23, 2019. He changed the prophecy to fit the news. Don’t you hate that. He calls out fake pastors and is fake himself.

    I have observed people saying, “network receive sense in jesus name”, on livestreams. It has zero effect. The network remains useless. Even when they find grace, they can’t break the habit of looking for that daily miracle.

  455. John, they misunderstand who God convicts (the whole world) and they don’t correctly understand what the meaning of repentance is.

    The funny yet sad part is they actually believe they have turned from their sin, and that their turning from sin proves they’re saved. If there was such a thing as good luck, they would need it. They only need to ask their spouse, or sibling, or parent if they’ve succeeded at turning from sin. Although you know that they have a sliding scale, even though they cannot identify what it is because of course none of what they say is Biblical truth.

  456. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today:

    Perhaps GOD will convict their hearts and cause them to turn from their sin just as he has done for all those that are saved by grace.

    My comment: This makes it sound like God causes all Christians to automatically turn from all of their sins in this lifetime. The Bible does not teach this, and the implication is that if someone is still doing anything sinful, or even having any sinful thoughts, that it means they haven’t received eternal life. This false message leads to fruit inspection and causes people to focus on themselves, compare themselves to others, and to not focus on Christ and His righteousness.

  457. Lordship Salvation: More Owuorism

    My Kenyan friend reports regularly on the insane ramblings of the…(edited by administrator). This time, the baal prophet makes a list of sins that will keep the church from being raptured. It’s the usual virtue signaling stuff, but this item takes the ugali:

    “rejecting repentance which is the blood of Jesus”

    The blood of Jesus is physical blood that was literally poured for us when His side was pierced. It cannot be redefined as repenting of sin. Simple faith makes it effective. This is the same thief that is making himself lord. It’s an utter mockery.

  458. Jason, I imagine that one really “burns up” the LS crowd.

  459. Ralph Yankee Arnold has a recent sermon called “Why the Cross Is About Fire Insurance”. And I am like, that is the only motive consistent with grace. It teaches us, without threatening us, to appreciate everything that God has done for us. I shared with a Kenyan friend, and his response: “grace is everything. We are nothing without it”. Heaven forever.

  460. Jason, I am happy that you were able to share “The Gospel” booklet, and I am hopeful that it will be a blessing to those who read it.

  461. The black hebrew israelites have been in the news lately, because of a weird incident involving Catholic boys in MAGA hats and an obnoxious Native American. Kevin’s Corner covered it.

    At a restaurant, I recently shared a Ron Shea booklet with an African-American woman who comes from a black hebrew israelite background. She did not seem racist. She had stopped going to church. Another worker was blessed by the booklet and asked for three more to share with friends.

    Dr Mumbi is a black hebrew israelite from Kenya. These people are lordship, Galatianistic, and influenced by hebrew roots and sacred name. Their racist side is rearing its ugly head. I don’t follow these movements to get entangled but to get informed and sound the alarm.

    Some of Mumbi’s followers are interested in her politics and not the hebrew roots aspect. But even her politics is extremely toxic. She supports the black supremacist EFF in South Africa and trashes reasonable leaders such as Bobi Wine. She gives misleading information about several countries. On the social networks, I met a Ugandan friend who agrees with me.

    There is not much material on the web that exposes Mumbi. I was drafting a much longer post, but I’m afraid I would say too much.

  462. Jason, very good comment.

    Just some pablum about wanting to be a Christian without an explanation of who Jesus is and how one receives eternal life really comes up short.

  463. When they don’t get to the point

    We are used to the case where the evangelist does not keep it real. They imply works in some way. Sometimes, they don’t get to the point. They say that there is a way but don’t show it.

    The video “A Devout Palestinian Christian Becomes a Muslim” talks about a man’s search of the real God. He tells the seeker to ask God for the truth, without simply giving it. He promises that God will give the truth to the unbeliever who seeks it, but he never tells the unbeliever to believe.

    In his testimony, he took 40 minutes to pray, “I want to be a Christian”, and then felt release. It was an emotion oriented testimony.

    This person does not use lordship. He does not say to repent of sin. He does not use guilt or imply works. He does not show that grace is the way, either. He essentially directs the seeking unbeliever to pray for the gospel instead of simply giving it. And I wonder, what use is that?

    He never went over the death, burial and resurrection or explained who Jesus is.

    Exhortations are seek God are as common as calls to repent of sin, and they are just as far from the truth. It is sad to see.

  464. Indeed. One of Satan’s main ways he keeps the lost man lost (other than convincing us believers to keep our mouths shut) is by giving them a false hope of Heaven. By doing that, he can effectively make them so blind that they cannot believe the words of Scripture when it refers to salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  465. John 6:47, it is very sad and part of our mission is to help people understand the difference between the gospel and its seemingly endless false substitutes.

  466. Great article! It’s really sad to see all the professing “Christians” have a false hope of going to Heaven. They will be in for the worst and biggest surprise of their lives when they stand before the Great White Throne Judgment (that is, if they never trusted Christ ALONE as their Savior). 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 rings true every single day within what I call “Selfianity” today (Selfianity because they’re putting all the focus on themselves and not Jesus Christ).

  467. Jason, I am hopeful that people who read your comments and Facebook content who know Jesus as Savior will grow in grace and that those who do not will understand the difference between false performance-based religion and the truth of eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  468. A Youtuber named The Other Side puts up a video called “The Fraudulent Pastor and his Members”. Three members visit pastor. He prays over them like a pentecostal, laying hands and pushing them over like TB Joshua. The first two come to pay their tithes. He tells the second one to take his money and leave, calling it ritualistic money. A funny thing to say, since it is all ritual with these pastors. Woke believers believe fake pastors are mixing folk religion with Christianity.

    Debt stricken, the third member comes to beg for help. Pastor is disappointed that his big bag is not full of naira. Pastor says something in Igbo, making clear the country of the comedy’s setting.

    Enough manipulation already, they must be thinking. Next day, the church riots, and pastor wakes up in the hospital. He might have to go to England to get good care.

    Other thoughts occur to me, and I make this comment: “Fake pastors love guilt. Salvation comes by grace through faith. The congregation learns that and leaves in a fit. They don’t go to church, like I don’t, unless they find Daddy Freeze. Ralph Yankee Arnold is too far for me on this side. Then Omoyele has a rally, and they greet him in the name of Jesus. Fake pastors for prison”

    Lordship could be lurking behind the most harmless words, but not this time. I check again, and he gets my references and agrees. I am not sure I recommend Daddy Freeze, but I am slightly satirical. There is some political humor, too.

    As more believers on the other side friend me on Facebook and like my free grace comments, I am encouraged. Grace resonates with them. I wonder how much is due to seeds I have been planting, but God gives the increase. The youth are rising to free grace.

  469. William, my prayers for your son also.

  470. JohnWI, Jack’s personal website is no longer active, which is why I haven’t been able to use the outbound email function.

    Below is a truncated version of Jack’s testimony:

  471. Johninnc, I tried using the link to Jack Weaver’s website and it is no longer working. Is there another place to go to to get the testimony that Jack had on his website?

  472. Jason, those who believe that good works are necessary to receive eternal life see that message in virtually any and everything.

  473. This use of hyperbole to unmask the rich ruler’s trusting in his works is an example of satire.

  474. Following is an excerpt from a comment I found yesterday:

    Other than the one rich young ruler, He never demanded that the rich give up all their money to the poor; (He only said that because He knew that is where the young man’s heart was.).

    My comment: Jesus never demanded that the rich young ruler give all his money to the poor in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. Jesus did know the young man’s heart, and knew the young man was trying to earn eternal life by keeping the law perfectly.

    Of course, Jesus knew that the young man had not – and could not – keep the commandments. Therefore, the young man needed another approach to receiving eternal life. He was trusting in his self-righteousness, which Jesus unmasked. The young man needed to trust in the righteousness of Christ for eternal life.

  475. William, thanks for letting us know. I am sure that many of our readers and commenters are praying for all of you as well.

  476. John, Thank you. It’s been very tough, especially for our son. He broke down and cried for a long time today.

  477. William, still praying for you and your family.

  478. John, and all brothers and sisters in the faith,

    Please continue to pray for us. Things have been getting very overwhelming for us and our son in regards to the lawsuit that was filed against us.

    Please pray for us. Thank you,

  479. Stephen Mwangi posted on his wall: “The gospel of Jesus Christ is too simple to be true, unless you add to it!” (all caps)

    More free grace comments followed. One of them said that pastors assigned themselves the job of adding. We know them too well.

    More friends are wishing I could visit, but I would need passport, visa and airfare. And my family at home would worry about me.

  480. PhilR, Praying for your home repair situation. Construction, especially labor is very expensive nowadays. My house had major construction done 8 years ago, and it cost a fortune. Contractors can be real pirates.

  481. Jason, I am glad that at least one person at that site understood your reference and agreed with your point.

  482. From Dr Njakiri Damages: “Nnamdi Kanu falls in love with Bishop Oyedepo(from episode 360). For doubling down and supporting his conspiracy theory that Buhari in Aso Rock is a body double, Biafran leader, Nnamdi Kanu forgot all that he had said about Yoruba pastors to embrace Bishop Oyedepo”

    I retweeted with comment: “Where I have fellowship, fake pastors are marked and avoided, not quoted whenever convenient. Spurgeon, anyone? Count me out”

    A conservative Latina who follows me liked the comment. Thank God, some people get it. The references are unfamiliar to most of us, but we know fake pastors by their fruit: lordship salvation.

  483. Phil, I have prayed for you and your wife in both of these things.

  484. Thanks William, just need prayer for some home repair problems that could get expensive. My wife and I also may have to consider moving into a retirement housing in the future.

  485. Holly, that’s right – no one would actually “find it” under their false gospel. God would reveal it to a select few.

  486. William, praying for the Lord’s help with your family. You know God’s mercy didn’t depart from Solomon either, yet some still don’t feel he persevered until the end. (Their false idea of attaining salvation).

    Strange that they think they would somehow do a better job…

  487. Johninnc, the comment you referenced on Matthew 7 made me shake my head.
    One we’ve heard so often.

    So let’s see, they believe that their FAITH is the GIFT from God.

    He adds that anyone who believes differently is FOLLOWING a false idea and gospel.

    He said, ‘Few will find it’…

    How can one ‘follow’ or how can one ‘find’ if faith is the gift? Why do they bother even preaching about this junk if one is pre-chosen to follow the right way and most are pre-chosen to follow the wrong way.

    It wouldn’t be few who would ‘find it’ but few who were pre-selected to find it.

  488. PhilR, Thank you, brother. If there is anything that I can pray for, please don’t hesitate to post your prayer request here. We as believers must not let Satan and his many hordes hinder us in our prayer life praying for each other. God is on the throne and prayer changes things.

  489. William, my prayers also for your situation.

  490. John, Yes, we are not kept eternally secure because of so called “unfailing faith” on our part which will no doubt be always susceptible to faltering and failure because we are still human, but we are kept eternally secure because we have BELIEVED on an UNFAILING SAVIOR who does not go back on His Word and promise – John 5:24, John 10:28-29, Ephesians 1:13, Romans 8:38-39, 2 Timothy 2:13.

  491. William, you are correct that no one has ever had to remain faithful to receive or keep eternal life, nor to prove that they have received eternal life.

  492. John, Regarding your earlier post:

    “My comment: The original commenter has put himself in the position of judging the eternal destiny of another person. The original commenter’s false gospel, then, is tainted by one of the following errors:

    1. It is impossible for a “true believer” to commit suicide; or
    2. Suicide is not covered by Christ’s atonement; or
    3. A believer has to avoid suicide to keep from losing eternal life.

    None of these are true.”
    My comment – Amen to your comment.

    For the benefit of those reading our comments who are unsure of their salvation and the very nature of eternal life, Scripture is clear that salvation CANNOT BE LOST no matter what happens to a saved Christian down the line. This is verified by John 3:16, John 5:24, John 10:28-29, Ephesians 1:13, Romans 8:38-39, 2 Timothy 2:13.

    The clear examples of Saul and Samson who both committed SUICIDE verify that they are still God’s children. God stripped away Saul’s KINGSHIP and withheld MERCY from Saul because of his disobedience, but God did not take away Saul’s salvation. Samson is listed as a Godly man of faith in Hebrews 11:32 despite his SUICIDE. Samson would not be listed there if he “lost his salvation.”

    False teachers will no doubt pervert and eisegete 1 Samuel 16:14 and 2 Samuel 7:15 in an attempt to prove that Saul lost his salvation.

    We now have false teachers like Kevin Thompson, Gene Kim, and Robert Breaker who will no doubt use the below verses in support of their false teaching that eternal security/once saved always saved is only in effect in the Church Age by teaching Free Grace, but not in the Old Testament, Tribulation, or Millennial dispensations. They are in essence teaching Lordship Salvation in the Old Testament, Tribulation, and Millennial time periods as Thompson, Kim, and Breaker insist that one must “persevere to the end” to maintain their salvation from slipping away.

    1 Samuel 16:14 – But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    2 Samuel 7:15 – But my MERCY shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

    Old Testament saints were not sealed with the Holy Spirit, which leads many false teachers to believe salvation can be lost whether it be by willful sin or by SUICIDE, but a careful reading of 2 Samuel 7:15 in the KJV indicates that the issue was MERCY, but not salvation. God asserted to David through Nathan the prophet that Solomon would be CHASTISED if he did wrong once he took over David’s throne, but that His MERCY would never depart from him as it departed from Saul.

    Scripture is clear that Old Testament saints who sinned grievously would be chastised with premature PHYSICAL DEATH, but they are still God’s children – Ezekiel 18:24-32, Ezekiel 33:12-13. Ezekiel 18:24-32 and Ezekiel 33:12-13 is in agreement with what is taught in the New Testament regarding PHYSICAL DEATH for willfully sinning believers in the New Testament/Church Age dispensation – 1 John 5:16-17.

    Clear examples are Ananias and Sapphira – Acts 5:1-11, the man who was sleeping with his stepmother – 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, and some of the Corinthian believers who were eating selfishly and getting drunk at the Lord’s Supper – 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, 1 Corinthians 11:29-30. In each case, the consequence was LOSS OF PHYSICAL LIFE or the recommendation of it, but their salvation remains intact and untouched. This is further confirmed by 1 Corinthians 3:15.

    Going back to Saul, we read in 1 Samuel 28:18-19 that the spirit of Samuel clearly indicated to Saul that because of his blatant disobedience to God and his doing an incomplete job of wiping out the Amalekites, that Saul along with his son’s PHYSICAL LIVES will be terminated the very next day AND THAT SAUL AND HIS SONS WILL BE WITH SAMUEL. Being in the same place with Samuel is obviously ABRAHAM’S BOSOM – Luke 16:22.

    1 Samuel 28:18-19 KJV – 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.

    19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: AND TOMORROW SHALT THOU AND THY SONS BE WITH ME: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

    Saul took his own life and his 3 sons were killed by the Philistines – 1 Samuel 31 and again the issue was the TERMINATION OF PHYSICAL LIFE, NOT the loss of salvation.

    In conclusion, these clear Scriptural passages debunk Kevin Thompson’s, Gene Kim’s and Robert Breaker’s false teaching that salvation can be lost if a saved believer commits suicide or commits grievous sin in the Old Testament, Tribulation, and Millennial dispensations. Eternal security/OSAS is in effect in all dispensations.

    Hebrews 13:8 – Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

  493. John, Thank you.

  494. William, I have prayed for strength and wisdom for each of you, and that you would receive a just outcome.

  495. John and all brothers and sisters in the faith,

    Me, my wife, and son really need your prayer support. Our ex-daughter in law is bringing false accusations against us and has brought a lawsuit against us. Our ex-daughter in law is basically a blatant liar and con artist who conned our naive son into marrying her so that she could use him to pay for her huge debts. They are legally divorced now.

    We are definitely up against an evil, spiteful, and vindictive person who is after our assets and has deliberately chosen this Christmas season to sue us. I am also certain that she is being used by Satan to attack us as we recently led our grandmother to faith in Christ and we also made a financial donation to a Christian organization.

    We are hiring an attorney tomorrow morning to represent us and please pray that the Lord give us wisdom in handling this situation. We have already been treated unfairly the last time we were in court where a biased judge sided with her despite her lies and putting up a convincing facade.

    The Bible says that God is a just and fair judge and a God of retribution. Please pray that God will do what He knows best. Our ex-daughter in law has been bringing one false accusation after another against our son and now she is throwing me and my wife into the picture.

    Please pray for us. We greatly appreciate your prayers. Thank you.

  496. Following is a comment related to a story about a Detroit meteorologist who committed suicide:


    My comment: The original commenter has put himself in the position of judging the eternal destiny of another person. The original commenter’s false gospel, then, is tainted by one of the following errors:

    1. It is impossible for a “true believer” to commit suicide; or
    2. Suicide is not covered by Christ’s atonement; or
    3. A believer has to avoid suicide to keep from losing eternal life.

    None of these are true.

  497. Jason, the preachy, virtue signaling stuff reflects a person’s anger and insecurity.

  498. Lordship Salvation: not keeping it real. They are failing all over the place with coming forward, concerted effort to stop sinning, sorrow (emotionalism), promises, unavailable faith, evanescent grace, and seeing sin everywhere.

    I once saw a preachy comment that said: “you dress formally for the governor but dress casual for God”, intimidating that God is furious and dishing out guilt. But the cross is the end of it. The gospel is free in both senses of the word: without cost and liberating. They just don’t get it.

  499. Following is one I came across today:

    Well, not everyone who calls Christ Lord are entering heaven, but ONLY the ones who DO the will of the Father who is in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23). Jesus hammered this point home repeatedly, that saying He’s God means nothing if we don’t submit to His will and authority (true belief and saving faith).

    He is the ONLY one who grants grace and it is ONLY by His grace that we are saved (even our faith is a gift from the Father (Ephesians 2). Anyone who believes otherwise is following a false idea and gospel. The way to Heaven is narrow and the road is hard (Matthew 7:13). Few will find it … (and Jesus was referring to those who claimed to be right with God when He said ‘many’ are on the wide road that leads to destruction.

    Don’t take this lightly.

    My comments: Doing the will of the Father in terms of receiving the free gift of eternal life, means believing in Jesus as Savior.

    John 6:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Submitting to Christ’s will and authority (obedience) is not a requirement for receiving, nor retaining eternal life. If it were, what standards would one use for determining how much obedience was required? And, how could anyone have assurance that they had been obedient enough to gain or keep eternal life? The Bible teaches that we receive eternal life when we believe in Jesus as Savior. And, that once received, eternal life can never be lost or forfeited.

    John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    The gate is straight and the way is narrow that leads to eternal life. It is not hard.

    Matthew 7:14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Jesus is the straight gate and the narrow way.

    John 10:9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Eternal life is received by those who have believed in Jesus alone for eternal life, apart from their works or obedience.

    The wide road that leads to destruction includes the false gospel of faith in Christ plus works for eternal life that the original commenter is teaching.

    Finally, faith is not part of the gift of God. Whether or not one has believed in Jesus as Savior is the sole determinant in whether a person spends eternity in heaven or in hell. If faith were the gift of God, and not everyone has it, then God would be purposely relegating those from whom he withheld faith to an eternity in hell. And, it would follow that every decision a person made was orchestrated by God, making God, not man, responsible for all of man’s actions. This is not what the Bible teaches.

    The Bible teaches that eternal life, not faith, is the gift of God.

    Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  500. I just picked up this “gem” from an article by Matt Moore in the Christian Post:

    Striving to turn away from sin is not an optional aspect of faith; it is inseperable from saving faith.

    My comment: Striving is a work. We do not receive eternal life by works, but by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

  501. “It is well with my soul”. My appreciation for the grace in that hymn is renewed. When I search for covers, half the results are Hillsong and Bethel, yikes. I have better luck with foreign language versions. And I find the East African tune catchier. Salama rohoni is my guilt free philosophy.

  502. Thanks for your encouragement, Holly.

    3 months ago, I left this comment on Youtube: “I liked your answer. Said appropriately. My feelings exactly, and I don’t like TB Joshua at all. I agree, Jesus is sufficient. There are very few preachers that I like, and I have some of them on my playlist”. Adeola had said that Jesus is sufficient and has never disappointed anyone, and that she was not recommending any prophet or preacher. And two weeks ago, I received the notification that she loved the comment.

    In the last two months, two other comments of mine received similar responses from their videos’ authors.

  503. May your efforts will Ron’s tract and your words be multiplied Jason.

  504. Jason, very interesting!

  505. Here is something interesting. Brett Kavanaugh tweets a funny reflection on what LGBT and normal people think are God’s greatest gifts. My reply is one word: Grace. Recently, I pinned a tweet linking Ron Shea’s tract in two languages and a resource page of my own. And just today, Brett liked the reply.

  506. Kate – I am in awe sometimes of the people who claim they believe salvation is not of works, and turn right around and declare someone needs to turn from sin, or stop this, or promise that, etc. It’s so baffling that they don’t hear the conflict in their own words.

    But people are so used to parroting the words of ‘scholars’ and ‘princes of preachers’ and ‘famed authors’ that they don’t really even grasp the fact that they aren’t even loving, knowing, studying, storing up His Word in their heart. It sickens me for them, for those they deceive and for all who will be lost because of that deceit.

  507. Kate, I think you’re right. Religions (which are false and man-made) are all works-based.

  508. Katmazdobelieve

    As I rest more and more in His grace I see the belief systems in two categories; Grace or Works. It seems to me that all other systems, besides Christianity (and I mean true Christianity as being saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone), are works-based in some way or another.
    Maybe that is the cynical side of me.
    Thanks for reading,

  509. Christina Grimmie sings “In Christ Alone” beautifully. The song is clear on the gospel. Unfortunately, her church’s website lords it up as usual with the repent of sins monkey business. Fellowship Alliance Chapel is in the same town as the Baptist church that I attended for 8 weeks and left because of romans road heresy. Christina was also tragically murdered two years ago. Her song was shared by a friend who is very busy but recently loved a Youtube comment in which I had shared the gospel.

    I wonder if most of these disappointing statements of faith were tampered with in the past ten years. It was much more common in the 80’s to hear a clear gospel preached.

  510. Jason, we see people of all political stripes trying to co-opt the Bible for political gain.

    Unfortunately, LS is very common among professing Christendom across by the political spectrum.

  511. Last weekend I was at the #walkaway rally in DC. At the end of the demonstration, I interviewed with one of the leaders, never got the name. He recorded with a device. His T shirt displayed his love for the gospel. My T shirt showed off some of my weird side. So I shared that I was saved by grace through faith. He agreed. But he had to add repentance. He obviously has sin as an object. His shirt did not tell me he is LS but words betray him.

    I used the movement as a reference point. Brandon Straka says it is about unconditional acceptance. If we who are evil know how to accept one another from various walks of life, how much more does God accept us through faith? But he was no ears. LS is fake tolerance far worse than the left.

    I have yet to stumble across the recording on Youtube.

  512. Jason, I saw that story. I think it was a non-RCC Church, but the narrative to the story was similar to the RCC miracle-oriented stories that punctuate the news sites.

  513. The Drudge Report tweeted a fake news story about a picture of Jesus that miraculously survived a church fire. I thought Drudge only did politics. I don’t need miracle oriented, RCC pandering fake news. What I need is grace.

  514. Jason, I am very pleased to hear that.

  515. It looks like my friend and I are back on the same page. Your prayers worked. Thank God.

  516. Jason, I agree with you that a clear Gospel presentation is essential.

  517. I suppose a leprosy victim has no chance, either.

    When I talked to my friend, he was unclear. He said that works are necessary “in salvation”, with stress on the preposition. It seemed that he was trying in his own way to say that we should do good works, but he was not able to achieve clarity. I told him that his friends would be confused and not blessed. He had told me he avoids church like the plague. I told him that his friends will inevitably interpret his words through the LS grid, and their confused minds will process the same message they heard in the pastoral swampland. The conversation trailed off here.

    An evangelist wins on the clear gospel. It has been my recent experience. But most preachers prefer mush. Sometimes a bad lawyer is clearer than a good pastor. It is a sad day when it happens. Galatians 3:1 beats LS any time. Who has bewitched them? As usual, it is the puppets in the pulpit. The jungle is full of them.

  518. Jason, sorry about your friend, I can certainly relate. One woman did the same. We even talked, she agreed repentance did not mean turning from sin. But on another post on her wall she contradicted what she previously said. Some just will agree with what people say to shut them up and/or they are like those who ‘sneak in’ (Gal 2:4-5). What is a ‘genuine turn from sin’ anyways?

    As for the one that said artificial hair could make someone miss heaven? How ludicrous… I suppose a cancer patient doesn’t have a chance in this person’s world.

    Praise the Lord that we know these things, these judgments, are rules and regulations of men and not what we must do to be saved 🙂

  519. Chas, you are right, the protestants are moving closer and closer to Roman Catholicism. A police show my husband had on, had a policeman appealing to a criminal that maybe God was giving him one last chance to repent. I had to kind of smh, knowing at that moment, this is not a colloquialism in the world today, yet, because of street preachers and signs, the world understands the world to mean ‘turn from sin’. And we know until we die we have a chance to repent. But I found it interesting a Roman Catholic on T.V. was using the word and Hollywood was o.k. with it.

  520. Jason, it is terribly sad when someone with whom we have shared the gospel and who appears to understand and believe it then undermines the gospel with LS teaching.

    I have prayed for your friend.

  521. When friends let you down.

    I had shared the gospel with a friend. My sharing included Shea, Bowen, Holly, and this site. He agreed and gave me likes. He said I was a blessing to others. He even said I was a preacher. I politely disagreed.

    And he posts this on his wall:

    “You claim to be born again????
    how many needy people have you helped?
    If none then you are a liar go back to the cross?”

    I replied: “I have shared the gospel and blessed you. Then I read this? I am disappointed. Helping the needy and a genuine turn from sin are works”, and gave the sad face.

    Another post of his defined repentance as a “genuine turn from sin”.

    Another from awhile back said that makeup and artificial hairs could cause you to “miss heaven”.

    I am saddened to hear about things like artificial hairs and the bleaching of the skin, but to throw LS into the mess is the worst insult ever. Repenting of real and imagined sin continues to cause corruption to the truth all around the world, which a Trump in every country cannot fix.

  522. Jason, mormonism is false doctrine that incorporates works for eternal life, among other errors. That was a very interesting quote you provided from the commenter, who left out the word “believe.” That’s a very significant omission.

  523. I saw this on the comment section of the song “We All Bleed the Same” (healing America version) by Alex Boyé:

    “We all bleed the same and sin the same so we all. Need repentance”

    The comment was ok until the last word. It is so LS. All who read it interpret it through a LS grid because it is so pervasive.

    Another commenter replied:

    “Finally someone who said the Truth! Thank you for speaking it. Yes God loved us so much that He sent his only Son that we might not perish but have an everlasting life. Amen”

    She missed the contradiction and misquoted John 3:16. Worst of all, she left out “believe”.

    I replied to the first commenter:

    “Wrong. We need grace alone. Lordship is more hate”

    I have experienced it.

    The artist is a Mormon by affiliation and immigrated into Utah. That is unfortunate. Mormonism is more LS.

  524. Jason, it is pathetic. People virtue signal on any number of dimensions.

  525. A certain video features some sort of minister questioning a caller because she voted for a certain candidate six years ago. That candidate supported abortion. The host told the caller that (1) she is not a Christian, and (2) he brought up race (theirs) and said that most of “them” hate God. The caller stated clearly that she does not support abortion. The gospel was never discussed.

    The fruit inspection is pathetic.

  526. Chas, it can be very draining to try to reason with religious people about the truth of the gospel and the sufficiency of Christ.

    All we can do is show them the truth from scripture. I have prayed for your recovery from surgery.

  527. It’s evident that so-called “protestant evangelicalism” is sounding more and more like Roman Catholicism in these end times.

    I know I’ve brought up RCC-ism a couple of times in this thread already, but the subject has weighed heavily on me over the last few months. I got a fresh look at the RCC side a few weeks ago as I was drawn into a lengthy exchange with a die-hard Catholic about RCC “authority” and a few of their other dubious claims. I attempted to steer the discussion to a biblically-oriented direction after quoting from the Council of Trent where the RCC dis-fellowships anyone who believes the true gospel of salvation by faith alone, apart from works. (The Council didn’t call what they were condemning “the true gospel” of course, but that is in essence what they referred to as a ground for anathematizing anyone who believes it.) My point in the discussion was that centuries ago the RCC officially separated themselves from the only gospel that saves, thereby pitting themselves against the Truth. Therefore their “gospel” of faith-plus-works is false by their own unwitting admission. That point was missed entirely by the Catholic responding to me. He insisted that the anathema decree “only applies to Catholics” (LOL!), and therefore doesn’t constitute a claim by RCC-sm to be “the only true church”. Vatican II came up, with the person quoting various high-sounding statements from that document in which the RCC tries to sound like it has abandoned any claim to be “the TRUE church” while at the same time using more subtle wording to restate that very claim in effect. Naturally, Matthew 16:18 came up, where any appeal to Scripture and Greek grammar was met with “That’s just your interpretation.” I’m afraid I didn’t do as well as I might have, especially since–in the diversion about RCC decrees and claims–I neglected to call his bluff about Romans 3., which he insisted is only about Paul telling the Roman church they didn’t need to keep the Jewish “ceremonial” law. (Yeah! I know!) I pointed out how he seemed to have Romans confused with Galatians, but he just doubled-down on his nonsense with “that’s just your interpretation” whenever Scripture contradicted his interpretation (which was a lot). There was the usual array of straw men arguments from his side. There were insinuations that I think I’m infallible, “have a lot of nerve”, was being “sanctimonious to the end”, etc. There was a lot of that, which I pretty much ignored in an effort to keep to the biblical points I was trying to make. It was the typical treatment of a believer by a legalist, iow, nothing unusual. But for some reason the whole thing left me very drained, more than it usually does when I’m coming off one of these RCC “encounters”. (Swidt?) I wasn’t at my best (as if my “best” was good enough, which it isn’t). What with the run-up to the shoulder surgery I underwent a couple weeks ago, and with the consequent “medications” involved I still haven’t recovered entirely from that discussion. My consolation is to pray for that individual (and those who “liked” his posts) whenever the exchange comes to mind. (Am I venting again? I guess so, this is the only place I feel comfortable “baring my soul” etc. etc.)

    Anyway, all that to say; the legalistic unbelief at the heart of LS, held by the RCC and so many other “Christian” systems of thought (we used to call them “denominations”) is rearing its ugly head with greater and greater clarity and unity between RCC-ism and the supposedly non-RCC camp. The false End Times Church is coalescing right before our eyes. It can’t be very long now.

    “Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”

  528. John WI, it does sound like Paul Washer to me also. Sadly, a lot of them parrot each other and so they begin to sing the same old song.

  529. Jason, that is very encouraging.

  530. Last Sunday, I made an interesting friend on Facebook. He was from a foreign country. He agreed with my misgivings about a certain false prophet. At some point, I brought up Expreacherman. I said that I rarely witnessed as much consistency with John 3:16 as I have seen here. He gave me a big thumbs up.

    It encourages me when I see grace resonating around the world.

  531. It sounds just like something Paul Washer would spew out.

  532. Pointless, hopeless and false.

    They are like dogs chasing their tails until they’re exhausted and then get up and try harder the next time. And teaching all their blind followers to do the same. It’s really very sad.

    This guy is a Pastor of yet again another ‘Grace’ IFB church. (That’s why he mentioned those other IFB churches that get it wrong according to him).

    He also claims to have gone to Florida Bible, have no idea if it’s true, but if so, obviously he was resistant to the truth.

  533. Hobbs, yes, it is pointless.

    The false gospels are often focused on a person’s motive for believing, which is not biblical.

    In this case, the false gospel is circular – believe in Jesus to change your life. If your life doesn’t change, you didn’t “sincerely believe.” So, if one wants to maintain the ruse, he has to engage in all sorts of religiousity.

  534. And so they neatly rule out any possiblity of anyone having any assurance.

    All a bit pointless really isn’t it?

    The institutional church steps in and says ‘follow our rules, we’ll save you’.

    Yeah, just the cults.

  535. Holly, this person is basically redefining faith as a desire to be freed from the practice of sin.

    The problem with this as the means of receiving eternal life is that it is based on man doing something to commend himself to God. In other words, it is dependent on someone who lacks eternal life deciding that he can make himself acceptable to God by desiring to give up his sins. If the desire to give up one’s sins is required to receive eternal life, than that is merely the desire to offer God filthy rags in exchange for eternal life. That would reduce eternal life to a trade, rather than it being a gift.

    The sole basis for assurance under this false gospel would be constant soul searching to make sure one was sincere when he decided that he wanted to stop sinning. This puts it all back on the subjectivity of a person’s feelings versus the objectivity of believing the gospel.

  536. I know the preference here is for shorter posts. But this is what I got in my email today from one wanting my thoughts on this false statement. Maybe could have taken a little more time, but I answered right then.


    The preaching of * #REPENTANCE * is the historical position of the church. The denial of repentance and changing it into a new doctrine is the trend of the current church and is rampant among IFB churches. We claim to stand on the old truths, but I defy any IFB preacher to point out a gospel preacher of old who preached these things:
    1. You don’t need to turn from sin.
    2. Repentance is just a change of mind about how to go to heaven.
    3. If you confuse salvation and service people will think they must serve God.
    4. Salvation is all about going to heaven, serving God comes later.
    5. Preaching that men must turn from sin is a lie of the devil.
    6. The gospel of John doesn’t use the word #Repent so repentance is not to be preached to the lost.
    7. We teach “faith alone” because preaching repentance as turning from sin is adding to the gospel.
    The truth is that not only is repentance from sin the only gospel ever preached, but we can say these things about it:
    1. You must turn or burn.
    2. Repentance is a change of mind and heart about your sin, and the authority of Christ. You cannot just recognize you are a sinner, you must come to Jesus to be freed from the slavery of sin.
    3. People who know themselves to be sinners by the light of the Holy Spirit come to Jesus for a new life of service. They DO NOT serve to be saved, but they do not come to continue in sin either.
    4. Salvation is about you and God being reconciled after being His enemy. Therefore, it is the desire to serve Him now by His power AND the desire to go to heaven, having been delivered from sin’s power and penalty.
    5. Preaching that men must turn from sin is the only message of the Bible. They need NOT clean their life up to come to God. They must come to Jesus for healing from a rebellious heart, whereby He gives them a new heart and writes His laws upon it.
    6. The gospel of John is written to prove the deity of Christ. If you do not submit to the deity and Lordship of Jesus, you DO NOT BELIEVE He is God in your heart, only in your head, just like the devils of James chapter 2. To believe He is truly God is to submit your life to Him. Nothing could be more clear than that you live by the authority of your chosen God. Either you live after the devil, or Jesus. You cannot serve two masters. So if John proves Jesus is the true God, you must submit or die.
    7. A faith in Jesus that does not include a hearty repentance from sin does not originate from the Holy Spirit, but from the flesh which will do anything to stay in power. It will even profess Jesus and go soul winning, so long as it does not have to die. This is the place where real salvation meets the real needs of men. They need Jesus to rule them and empower them. Therefore, true salvation delivers men from the power of self, and places Jesus on the throne in the heart where He belongs. Nothing short of this answers the need of the human condition. Men need saving from themselves and their rebellious hearts. Hell is only the just consequence of that wickedness. Therefore, God’s object is not to get you out of hell and into heaven, but to get the devil out and Himself in, so the image of Jesus can be seen in men.

    My response:

    Here is my answer, but if this were on my wall I’d delete it after I answered.

    1. Believers should turn from sin. I defy that person to show where the apostles preached a turn from sin gospel (read all the Acts account, they usually use one, but the point is forgiveness of sins).

    2. Repentance is a change of mind about something. The philosophers at Mar’s Hill (Acts 17) ‘ought not think’ that God was made by man of gold, silver, stone. The Jewish Rulers needed not THINK that because they were children of Abraham, they were in. It’s a change of mind of what you previously thought was true, TO a belief of the truth.

    3. If you confuse salvation and service – people will think they must WORK for salvation and hence have not been saved. Eph 2:8-9, Rom 4:2-5; 11:6; Gal 2:16

    4. Salvation is all about being saved from the wages of sin (eternal death). The free gift is eternal life. Becoming a disciple is a process and happens as we continue in His Word (John 8:31-32),

    5. Obviously a strawman argument, we teach that turning from sin is a work. A good work, a righteous thing for believers to do. If we add turning from our evil deeds as a necessity to be saved, we’ve added a work (Titus 3:4-7 – NOT by works of righteousness).

    6. This person obviously has no clue about the whole counsel of God. Turning from sin is part and parcel of the whole law. Certain laws are absolutely about turning from sin, Numbers 5:6-7 is just one example of turning from sin in the law although really most of them are.

    Conclusion: Adding a work of the law to the gospel is an accursed gospel since no one has ever been justified by the law. (Gal 2:16; 1:6-9)

    Followup numbers.

    1. He’s quoting Charles Spurgeon not the Bible

    2. Chapter and verse?

    3. We don’t receive the Spirit until after we believe (Eph 1:13).

    4. If it were automatic, the epistles wouldn’t have been very necessary as most are about teaching believers how to do that.

    5. While we were YET sinners Christ died for us (Rom 5:6-8) and we know that He quickened us (made us alive) while we were still dead in our sins (Eph 2:1)

    6. I taught through John and Jn 20:30-31 tells us the purpose of John. Part of believing the gospel is believing WHO Jesus is, but we believe that He is God. They go further and bring up James 2 and the demons who were never offered salvation (obviously insinuating works for salvation).

    7. A ‘hearty repentance from sin’? By their humble opinion? If it were in our ability it would have to be perfect. ‘Jesus on the throne of the heart’ (again, chapter and verse?) I agree we need to submit to God, resist the enemy. Humble ourselves under His mighty hand. We, meaning believers (1 Pet 5).

    Anyways, lots of men’s words and opinions with no sound exegesis of Scripture.

  537. Edit:

    [Various punches and insults]
    My comment: LS is very oppressive. Sad.

  538. The story of Jimmy Taylor, the missionary who was arrested in Uganda, has gone viral. Since he is a missionary, he has a gospel to sell, and I thought it was worth commenting on. When an independent journalist shared this, I was shocked. I am so used to fake news. I can’t help myself.

    Some of his comments

    “Look at me. Look at Christ who died for you”
    My comment: Jimmy Taylor is not Jesus. Jimmy did not die for the sins of Ugandans or anyone else. Jesus warned us to flee these false christs. This is the evil fruit of theosis. Unfortunately, Francis was in no position to take flight, much less to fight back.

    “No, you calm up”.
    My comment: I don’t know what he means by that. He is drunk. He was rightly told to calm down.

    My comment: the tone implies repenting of sins. It is not a condition for eternal life.

    “You obey me”
    My comment: obedience is not a condition for eternal life, and Jimmy is not Lord.

    “I have come to help Uganda”
    My comment: no country needs a false gospel or a false christ.

    “You disgrace Jesus”
    My comment: Jimmy disgraced Jesus with blasphemy, a false gospel, insults, and violent behavior. He showed no grace. Identity politics exists, and so does the real thing.

    “You hate yourself. You hate Uganda. You hate Jesus”
    My comment: this is pure fruit inspection. No attempt was made to gather facts before hurling accusations. Jimmy did not ask Francis what he believed. This is typical of accusers of the brethren.

    “In three days, three quarters of you will die”
    My comment: so he thinks he is a prophet. His doctrine already proves him false.

    [Various punches and insults]
    My comment: the “missionary position” is LS, and it is alive and well. Sad.

    Jimmy’s arrest is also circulating. He tried to disarm cops, in reverse Michael Brown style. He should have been shot. Despising government is a characteristic of false prophets (2 Peter 2:10).

    The gospel is the good news that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and that eternal life is freely offered, without respect of persons, to anyone who believes. It is none of the above madness. Stories like this confuse people about the character and work of Jesus, and make me sad.

  539. “His mercy speaks only when we are still alive”

    That is a clear denial of eternal life. I gave it a sad face.

  540. Phil, I think there’s a lot of that going on.

  541. Unfortunately, I think people are lead to say the magic words like…. confess with your mouth… on the name of the Lord….and you wonder if they really know and believe what Christ’s death and resurrection means for them personally.

  542. Where is the gospel believed? One reason I go places on the internet is to find out. I can’t resist. I also like road trips. I was in DC last Saturday.

  543. Phil, good point. People need to hear the gospel message and the only response needed is belief.

  544. I recently saw a film where there was a scene where a woman came forward in this church and wanted to be saved. She was told to confess her sins to God, believe Jesus is the Son of God, and confess him as Lord, and she would be saved. She was not given the gospel message.
    I think people are sometimes told what their response should be instead the facts and reasons behind why they can be saved and to believe Christ died for their sins and rose to save them. Instead they focus on Romans 10:9-10 as the go-to, two step salvation passage instead of the rest of what Romans and other Bible passages say about salvation.

  545. Kate, we are glad that you are here, and that you find the site to be a blessing.

    The various groups within “churchianity” can usually identify what makes them each unique. What they can’t identify is what makes them all the same.

  546. Katmazdobelieve

    Yes and Amen!!!

    I would always ask church elders, as well as peers, what exactly made Christianity different from all other religions, including RCC. The answers were always in the vein of “They worship false gods; They worship themselves”. Even in my fog while laboring under the delusion of the false gospel I could see that something was wrong in Churchanity.

    I am beyond grateful that I landed here. Since coming here and understanding the real Saving gospel the intrusive thoughts that fed my religious OCD (also called scrupulosity) have decreased to almost none. All the anxiety and depression which caused so much ” fear of the unknown”, to quote Hobbs, is no longer running my life. And when I do have moments of weakness and uncertainty, moments of doubt, then I rest in the assurance of eternal life given freely by my Maker because of Grace alone by Faith alone through Christ alone.
    The meaning of freedom in Christ always seemed to be obscured in my mind. That is no longer an issue. His yoke is light.
    Anyway. Thanks for reading my ramble. I know I don’t comment often, many times I want too but my biblical understanding is not near on level with the regular commenters here.
    Thanks again.
    This site and all of regulars were a God send.

  547. kate, I agree with you. The man-made religions are all the same at the core.

    And, many of the same people who won’t even tell you the correct way to have eternal life hold themselves out as “life coaches” through their books and articles.

  548. Jason, she may not be in that book, but she is well-documented as a false teacher.

  549. Hobbs, yes, what a relief!

  550. The fear of the unknown. Will I have a nasty surprise when I die? Have I done enough good in my life to ‘appease the gods’.
    How could anyone ever know on that basis?
    Faith is the only connection we have with the next realm.
    ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith…’
    Phew, what a relief.

  551. Katmazdobelieve

    I think they are all the same. They can package the product differently but it all boils down to works for or evidence of salvation.
    It is grace plus works no matter how you slice it. And by reading casually on other religions it is still the same message of “Save Yourself by Your Own Good Deeds”.
    The religions of man are always self-centered.

  552. Oops, Bowen does not mention Meyer. There is nothing like a good old Mandela effect to throw me for a loop, lol. All these false teachers seem the same.

  553. Holly, yes, it is a ludicrous statement, and it would be considered comedy if it was said by someone that was mocking the church. But unfortunately, they are serious.

    Johninnc, yes, Billy Graham certainly was a false teacher, and his son, Franklin, is just as bad.

  554. Shane, I’m sure your laughter was like mine. Yes contradiction for sure. When it said ‘interior contradiction’ I thought of inward wolves. They just won’t believe the Word of God and corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    Still shaking my head at how ludicrous that statement below is….
    “Salvation includes being accepted just as you are, when you turn from your sin”.

  555. Shane, you are giving your friend sound advice.

    It reminds me of the Billy Graham events using “Just As I Am” as their signature song.

  556. Johninnc, I’m tired of the chew the meat, spit out the bones (or don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater). They are advocating that you literally take doctrinal teaching from one in error contrary to what the Scripture says.

  557. I looked up the doctrine of a church for a friend in a city where I used to pastor. When reading it, I just had to share with you all here, one of the most funny statements on salvation I’ve ever seen. It includes an interior contradiction. What is an interior contradiction? It is a statement that contradicts itself, like this one: “Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone”.

    So here’s the one they put in their statement of faith: “Salvation includes being accepted just as you are, when you turn from your sin”.

    That’s a new one for me. I can be accepted by Jesus just as I am, so long as I sufficiently clean up first. Too funny!

    Needless to say, I will be telling her to avoid that place.

  558. Jason, I’m not a big fan of “chew the meat, spit out the bones.” The Bible says “mark and avoid.”

  559. I saw someone share a video of Joyce Meyer that she thought was uplifting. When people post these things, I do not know if they are spitting out the bones or swallowing whole or are ignorant of the full range of their teachings. I would rather put warning labels, or better yet, not share at all. In response, I shared the Bowen book, referenced the section on Meyer, and expressed my concerns. Most seriously, Meyer is LS.

  560. Jason I am sorry you lost your friend. I’m not sure he was clear from the beginning, but if so, I pray he comes out of bondage.

  561. Holly, I took a look at some of those comments and responses today. That poor guy is really carrying a heavy burden.

  562. John, I have a commenter over on my article on Paul Washer who doesn’t undertstand the same (eternal life is just that).

    I’m not going to entertain more of his comments (I re-read your guest guidelines – good rules which I will use as my own guideline at my site). But I did enjoy answering some of the typical junk they use to try to prove you can lose everlasting life.

    How sad of an existence that is. And how awful of an eternity if they do not come to a knowledge of the saving truth.

  563. A couple of comments today from an article on a pastor who committed suicide:

    He’s not with Jesus though, suicide is a sin so he’s with Satan.

    My comment: This commenter does not appear to understand the gospel. A believer in Christ has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited. If the pastor ever believed in Jesus as Savior, he is with Him now. If Christ died for our sins, that includes suicide. If a person believes that he will end up in hell if he commits suicide, then he doesn’t believe that he has eternal life.
    Instead, he believes that he has contingent eternal life, conditioned on his work of not committing suicide.

    Depends. For example, a soldier in battle jumps on a live grenade thrown by the enemy is a hero going to heaven for sure…even if he saved no one and wanted to die.

    My comment: This commenter also seems to believe that eternal life is conditioned on works. If the soldier in that example had ever believed in Jesus as his Savior he would be going to heaven for sure. If not, even if he saved an entire division by his heroic act, he would not be going to heaven.

  564. I am sorry. I couldn’t help myself. Losing a friend that I grew close to over six months was painful. I don’t intend to start a discussion. I respect your decision.

  565. Jason, as you know, we do not teach the spiritual death of Christ at ExPreacherman.

    However, comments on this issue were officially closed by the late Jack Weaver, and by Bruce and Jack collectively (please see links below if you are interested in those previous discussions).

    I would ask that we not rehash this topic again.

  566. I just lost my friend to that teaching. Sad.

  567. Jesus Died Spiritually heresy has missionaries. Burnt offering teaching is popping up in divers places. Sad.

  568. Jason65, in love and no condescension, just concern, don’t spend very much time on the counterfeit. Not enough time in the day to learn all the wisdom found in His Word.

  569. That’s true, because every ideology out there has its pet sins, and their base is like, repent of them or burn in hell. Sad. LS goes against the feel-good therapy of many of these groups, but they dish it anyway.

    I think I got Tucker and Jeffress confused, lol.

  570. Jason, the news sources and political channels promote LS, because it is so popular with their bases.

  571. Following news and political channels can get you mixed up with false gospels. Tucker Carlson teaches LS.

    I have listened to number of African sources, out of curiosity, and I had the misfortune of stumbling upon Dr Mumbi. Her news is interesting to me, but she promoted a prophecy of Myles Monroe, who I know raises many red flags. She is not clear on the gospel herself, since she always teaches discipleship and never salvation. I have yet to stumble upon her gospel. When explaining the meaning of Christmas, she mentioned the sacrifice of Christ but did not say what it means. She omitted to mention that it gives eternal life to the believer. She is not explicitly LS, but the problems with what is left unsaid are huge. Even if the Monroe prophecy of Africa’s rise comes to pass, God did not send it.

  572. It is ironic, but just the cares of this world. One need only to watch any television show, news channel, series, etc., and you would generally easily find one of a few things:

    1. Propaganda of some kind
    2. An Agenda against believers
    3. A worldly foretelling of future end times events
    4. Common ground with loadshippers in that man is somehow the savior in the story.

  573. Jason, very ironic.

  574. That same commenter who was justifying Trump on the basis of a false gospel now brings up the Rich Young Ruler.

    He said: “show me your fairh without works, and ill show you the President’s Faith by his works. What did Jesus tell the Rich Younger ruler to do? Nothing? Or did He tell him what to do to get to Heaven?”

    I am like, Trump did not sell all his possesseions. If he really believes that, he should espouse liberation theology. It follows. Nothing is sillier than right wingers with leftist false gospels.

  575. As if flat earth madness weren’t enough, Q gets thrown into the mix. The #walkaway movement is enticed into the trap. The latest prophecy is the arrest of Hillary. The obsession with codes is indistinguishable from astrology. Are they reading too much Snicket? The video, QAnon Is Dead, puts the jig up. Distraction is part of divide and conquer. Back to the gospel. Jesus died for all my sins so that I may live. If I know nothing else, even so, it is well.

  576. Johninnc – I can relate to the ‘too easy’ or ‘too hard’ but their ‘too easy’ is to just be a disciple, do all the things he commanded. (One told me all the acts and works of disciples was the ‘gospel 101’). He did make it easy, but they corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.

  577. Holly, these videos are not about the gospel but about politics. I do not expect the gospel to be mentioned. But in the comments, these false gospels rear their ugly head.

  578. Holly, I know. I’ve been told that I make it too easy and that I make it too hard. I didn’t make it anything. It’s the gospel of Jesus Christ.

  579. Johninnc, that last comment you posted, that I missed, it is just heartbreaking at times to see people get the gospel wrong, over and over, and think they can ‘achieve salvation’ and if you dare point out that isn’t what the Word teaches, it is you who are being ‘nitpicky’.

  580. Jason, what I always find very telling on those videos is they don’t mention the gospel at all.

    And the conditions they are mentioning about righting a wrong can be seen in multiple aspects of the law. And we know the law never made anyone righteous. They are so ME-centric, it doesn’t dawn on them the obvious. They are talking about what they must do to be saved, as as you noted, they rarely mention the only condition and if they do, we know they always add works to it.

  581. Jason, you are correct that neither asking for forgiveness, nor correcting wrongs are conditions for receiving eternal life.

  582. This comment was on the youtube channel Kevin’s Corner: “Kevin, Make a video about the President’s salvation. President Trump said that he did not believe that he needed to ask for God’s forgiveness, and the evangelical community went nuts, but he said that he needed to make right the things he has done wrong. THIS IS REAL SALVATION! I know a lot of people that have asked for forgiveness, but they refuse to make right those things they have done wrong. Just a thought Brother. God Bless Brother Kevin”

    And no one mentioned faith. Neither asking forgiveness nor correcting wrongs is a condition for receiving eternal life. The gospel dies the death of a thousand distractions.

  583. Jason, in many cases when the LS crowd talks about celebrities (as well as anyone else)they make sweeping conclusions about whether that person has eternal life.

    Like you said, we can’t know, and neither can they.

  584. From a youtube video on Kanye West’s rant: “please pray for this man. Pray for him, that he would have a revelation of who Jesus is. Pray that he would repent and turn from his sin”.

    My comment: Kanye was used by the left and is now being used by the changed lives crowd. They do not think he is saved. They think that repenting of sin is a condition for receiving eternal life. That is so wrong. He might be saved. He once confessed in one of his songs: “my momma used to say only Jesus can save us”. The appropriate prayer is: if he is not saved, that he would believe in Jesus for eternal life, and, if he is saved, that he would have peace and boldness to speak the truth. Now they inspect his fruit and say that he is still lost. The lordship plantation is a dangerous state of mind.

  585. Brother James Key. Breaking: Q identified, QAnon exposed.

    In this video, James Key is full of intimations of salvation by works. He is constantly boasting about what great love he has for the Lord, and saying that we must stay on the narrow way. He is creepy.

  586. Following is a comment I gleaned from the internet today:

    However, our God is a merciful one. Should they decide to repent, follow in the footsteps of the LIGHT OF THE WORLD, they can achieve salvation. Jesus refuses to give up. We have but only open the door to our hearts and let Him in and take control.

    My comment: Our God is merciful. He provided completely for our salvation by sending Jesus to be our Savior. On needs only believe in Jesus as his Savior to receive eternal life. We do not “achieve” eternal life. We receive it by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. One does not have to “let Him take control” to receive the free gift of eternal life.

  587. Jason, that is a very apt depiction.

  588. I seems that faith, in Catholicism, is a gift received through sacraments. Sad.

  589. Chas – it’s true, they don’t consider the ‘how much’ or ‘how long’ or ‘how sincere’ that can go on for that lifetime of perseverance. But similarly to the Catholics, they can’t really say they’re ‘saved’ yet. For them it’s presumptuous to do so.

    I ran across a Roman Catholic article recently and surprised to see it’s identical nature to the doctrine the Calvinists teach of the gift of faith and the gift of repentance. There was nothing on the article that a hard core Calvinist couldn’t have written, yet just like the Calvinists, no good Biblical proof, just proof texting (as in repentance given to the Gentiles or repentance and forgiveness given to Israel) as their proof.

  590. #3, the “confessed Jesus before men” requirement always made me wonder, “How many times? Just once? Once a day, a week, a month…? How many people a day do I hafta witness to for me to be really saved, HUH?

    At least the RCC has demands that are specific: Confess sins to a priest and receive the Eucharist once a year, minimum, attend Mass every Sunday (and “holy day of obligation”). Of course, the “good deeds” part is kinda open-ended…

  591. Hobbs – you asked, why not just rest in the knowledge that God is faithful to save us?

    I’ve asked that many times over the year, or why they preach Calvinism vs. Christ and Him crucified, and I’m afraid they haven’t come to that knowledge (that it’s God who is faithful) because they just don’t believe it. Or have become bewitched, either way we know they espouse a false and powerless gospel.

  592. Johninnc, I still marvel that people want to make a doctrine over a couple unclear verses used without context and witness from the rest of His Word. Whether it be repentance and faith being a gift bestowed upon a few, or confessing publicly in order to be given the free gift, or turning from sin, or becoming baptized, etc. They are unwilling to consider the other passages and I can’t figure that out. Afraid? Proud? Steeped in religious tradition? Or is it just the religious/carnal feeling of belonging to a certain sect?

    I find it sad for them, but I continue (as you do) to speak the Word in the hope and prayers that they might somehow take heed.

  593. Holly, I had told my wife earlier today that this sounded like Church Of Christ.

  594. Johninnc

    The person/group that explained how to become saved and stay saved sounds like Church of Christ or the like. They cannot ‘know’ as they suggest, there is no way they can know by their carnal standards.

  595. Following is a false gospel message that I found today in an internet comment.:

    The gospel invitation:

    1. Heard the word
    2. Believed the word Romans 10:17
    3. Confessed Jesus before men Matthew 10:32
    4. Been baptized for the remission of sins Acts 2:38

    and if so

    5. Are remaining faithful James 1:12-22

    The events in this word will continue until that final day, the question is, are you prepared? When you pass on, are you ready? You can be!

    My comment: Neither confessing Christ before men, nor water baptism, are required to receive the free gift of eternal life. And, it is God’s will that Christians be faithful. However, it is not an automatic consequence of believing.

    This internet commenter is trying to evangelize, but sounds like he needs to have the gospel explained to him by someone who clearly understands it. If this commenter has never believed in Christ alone, apart from works, he is not prepared.

  596. Yes it seems so convoluted to go into all the ‘God gives me the determination to stay faithful’. Why not just rest in the knowledge that God is faithful to save us. Again, the simplicty that is in Christ. It’s like a fear of simplicity, e.g. ‘you can’t say you just have to believe and you’re saved’. Actually the guy did start to say that elsewhere…. but, but… then he went and added ‘and confess with your mouth’, which he describes as God always requiring an ‘accompanying action’. Yes, we get it, add some work and a whole host of other requirements until our assurance is in shreds….

  597. Hobbs, Romans 7 describes our fate in the flesh well and so by God’s standards, we fail.

  598. Hobbs, that is a very good example of the confusion out there. Essentially, this person is saying that God has empowered him to keep himself saved (that is, work his way to heaven) by his determination to stay faithful, which is appropriated by faith. Very mixed up.

  599. Actually, no, on second thoughts…. I’ve never believed I was saved on the basis that I have ‘determined that I am going to remain faithful’. A silly attempt at humility on my part.

  600. This is from someone’s facebook video, a guy who’s actually been a Pastor much of his life:

    “If you want to know the truth about what I believe about eternal security, I am eternally secure. There is no way that I can lose my salvation. Why? Because I have determined that I am going to remain faithful. Now, it doesn’t depend on me, it’s the grace of God that brings salvation to me, and it’s by faith I appropriate His provision so that I am a born again son of the Living God and I am on my way to heaven. And there’s no way that I am going to throw this thing away. Halleluijah! So when He convicts me of sin, I quit sinning, when I do something that’s not pleasing to Him, I stop. If I do commit a sin, if I do something that I know I shouldn’t have done, I immediately confess that, and put it right.”

    My comment: I feel this epitomises what ExP is trying to correct; confused people thinking they can help save themselves. (Not that I wouldn’t have been just as muddled a couple of years back!)

  601. I agree about both comments. There seems to be no end to the subtleties of error.

  602. Following is an excerpt from a comment I read today, along with one of the responses to it. My comments, to both the original comment and the response, are in bold parentheses.

    Excerpt from original comment: Habitual sin, however, is you choosing to be separated from him for eternity.

    (My comment: habitual sin is not choosing to be separated from Christ for eternity. People who believe in Jesus as Savior have eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited, whether or not they sin habitually.)

    Response to original comment: You are wrong about habitual sin. All sin can be habitual. What God requires of believers is to be at war with their sins, which is a wholly different attitude than accepting sinful behavior as one’s chosen lifestyle.

    (My comment: Being at war with one’s sins is not a requirement for receiving, keeping, or proving that one has received eternal life. It is God’s will that believers not let sin reign in their lives, but it is not required for eternal life.)

  603. Jason, martyrdom, like any other work, won’t get anyone into heaven.

  604. I didn’t wish to revisit this topic again, but that heretical article proves that this false gospel is being used by the perveyors of LS generally and not just a few fringe groups. It is used at random. They usually assure you that if you aren’t practicing sin, you are ok. But sometimes they turn up the heat just to scare you, and they stay out of the kitchen themselves. The article was called, “I Hope My Son’s Life is in Danger”. What a murderous thought!

  605. Jason, agree. Being martyred has nothing to do with receiving, keeping, or proving that one has eternal life.

    In fact, believing that one must agree to martyrdom to receive, keep, or prove that one has eternal life is not consistent with believing in Christ alone for eternal life.

    It is a sad possibility that someone who has never believed in Jesus as Savior could become a martyr for a false gospel.

    The “Gospel Coalition,” is a Calvinist/Lordship “salvation”/ecumenical monstrosity that is actually aligned against the gospel.

  606. From the Gospel Coalition:

    “When my son posed his question before dinner, I was tempted for a moment to comfort him by saying that he may not actually die for his faith. But that’s not what the children who saw Christ die on the cross would have understood. And that’s not how Jesus talked when he said things like, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you [on my account]” (Matthew 5:11). There is nothing more eternally healthy for the imagination of a young boy than to hear these words and place himself in the drama of Scripture. The same young imagination that may at first fear death, when captivated by Christ will remember these words and the breath of Jesus that lays low his enemies. In fact, we will know our children believe Jesus’ promises about heaven when they believe Jesus’ promises about now”

    My thoughts: that contradicts the testimony many funerals. Some die for him, some don’t. Nothing is more healthy than simply knowing the gospel and believing in it. The false gospel of dying for Jesus is not what the thief on the cross understood when he saw Jesus die a few hours before him, as I would suppose under the condtions. The thief died for his crime, but Jesus died for the thief. This is not what Nicodemus understood either. He avoided persecution but understood that he was promised eternal life. And no one practices the martyrdom gospel. They use it to give us false guilt. That is what I experienced with Wurmbrand. He himself ceased to practice this when he came to America and founded VOM. This article intimates that salvation is a trade. Withstanding persecution earns a reward, but the martyrdom gospel is just simply LS with the most stringent standard imaginable.

  607. Just wow. Now I am utterly convinced that Calvinism is new age.

  608. Jason, that is interesting. There is a pretty good section on grace at the old Clear Gospel. Please see below:

  609. In the comments on a Facebook group post, I saw all sorts of confusing definitions of grace. The definitions included: a principle, an influence, a thing that teaches, a voice, the Holy Spirit. The OP asked for a definition, and some of the ansers given were true statements about grace (it teaches us to deny ungodliness) but not its definition (unmerited favor). Others stated that faith is a gift.

  610. Agree. My mom is currently affiliated with Methodists, and my sister has a female pastor. It happened due to a confluence of strange circumstances. But the main cause is that our churches got confused. My reaction was to cease to assemble. Theirs was to put up with the confusion. But I have known them my whole life and I have had this conversation with them. That leaves me with a good idea of what they believe. I recently found a church that was clear enough for me, and that makes my family happy for me. My mom even tried it with me on Mother’s day.

    My comment on the Kenya site is still awaiting approval. Bummer. I was hoping to reach them.

  611. A comment from today:

    With respect to Southern Baptists: None of them are true Christians.

    My comment: The Southern Baptist convention adheres to the Baptist Faith and Message, which does not comport with the gospel. However, merely belonging to a church that is confused about the gospel, or is affiliated with a group that is confused about the gospel, does not mean that a person lacks eternal life.

    People belong to these groups for a variety of reasons, most of which are not good reasons.

  612. Hobbs – I do the same as you, I think I’m being harsh when I’m protecting the truth, and I have to keep in prayer to not let my emotions (not saying you do) guide my time spent with these types. You want them to know the truth, but many are like the Pharisees of old and have stopped up their ears, some of them murderous in so many ways.

  613. Hobbs, that person did get one thing right, even though it’s probably not what he meant. He says, “There are many people following Jesus today in an unsaved condition”, which is true and just what Mat 7:21-23 says, because they are trusting in their works and not HIS work. It is finished, AMEN!

  614. Correcting myself again! It’s not ‘harsh’, understanding that is the difference between heaven and hell.

  615. “…paid for all their bad” being just a casual expression of course. Even a person’s ‘good’ is also sin until they trust Christ, according to the Bible. Seems harsh when we think of our ‘good’ un-saved friends. But that’s the book.

  616. Yeah, I guess until they are fully convinced that Christ has paid for all their bad, they’ll keep writing articles to bash everyone else over the head with.

  617. Hobbs, they get assurance from how obedient they think they are, relative to others, or from their own life trajectories (the “I used to’s”).

    If we point out that perfection is required to get into heaven, they will say something like “I’m not perfect, but God knows I’m trying.”

    “Trying” is a work.

  618. That un-marked grave, err… website I stumbled upon was using the ESV ‘tweak’ of John 3:36 to help qualify this statement:

    “We as Christians are not exempt from judgement or from the repercussions of sin. If we are in Christ, there is no condemnation, but if we are deceived by false theology into thinking we are in Christ, while actually living in disobedience, we are in trouble. We are not in Christ and there is condemnation. No salvation. The wrath of God remains on us. False-grace doctrine is eternally deadly. There are many people following Jesus today in an unsaved condition.”

    I suppose they’re defining false-grace as licentiousness?

    Why they wanna keeping beating-up on grace, for goodness sakes. It’s the only thing that’s ever gonna save them!

  619. Chas, yes, it is amazing, like JMac’s ‘hard to believe’ book. They make it hard, they shut up the kingdom of heaven to men and I completely agree, I once wrote on that very thing (insulting the Spirit of Grace) by their works.

    I see you and I were thinking alike on the ‘obey’, good one to add and I agree, they are rejecting His Lordship, that He is Jehovah, the Savior or Jehovah who saves. They are counting on themselves to add to or finish His work.

    Virtual venting also 🙂

  620. Hobbs, I tried to take all the loadshippers perversions of Scriptures (and no I’m not speaking of a particular translation) but of their ability to cherry pick Scripture and make the word obey as in salvation mean particularly obedience. And so I went looking for what the Word said vs. what they tried to do in twisting it (satanic) or wresting it to their destruction (those who might be carnal but can’t understand).

    Romans 10:14-17 tells us to obey unto salvation is believing His report (God’s testimony of His Son). To obey = believe His report 🙂

  621. Jason, I agree that John 11:25-26 is very clear regarding the promise of eternal life.

    I have prayed for these men as well.

  622. From KrazyInsideKenya:

    commenter2: “commenter1 what is the narrow gate. Jesus said He is the only gate. The only train you should be telling people is the Lord Jesus Christ not repentance and holiness. Jesus Christ is the only Holy and righteous and everyone who is in Him is counted holy and righteous this is the only truth of God’s word. Telling people to enter the train of repentance and holiness is misleading and not based in the true word of God”

    My observation: commenter2 gets it. Repentance (of sin) and holiness (works) are not conditions of eternal life. He correctly states that righteousness (justification) is in Christ alone. commenter1 was defending a gospel that was (counterfeit miracles aside) hardly different from MacArthur’s.

    commenter3: “i normally pity the holiness and repentance worshipers. they worship owuor more than they worship God. why do you kneel before the man? he is just another human being just like any of you. in fact you commit blasphemy by revering him that much. read the bible, understand what God needs of you and stop this nonsense of blindly worshiping owuor”

    My observation: “holiness and repentance worshipers” is an apt name for lordshippers. Churchianity is full of the reverence of men, both past and current. Commenter3 seems to get it. He went on to mention in a later comment that Jesus gave clear answers. John 11:25-26 is one of the clearest statements of the promise of eternal life.

    I hear that Kenya is full of false christs. I pray that these two commenters don’t fall for other traps. I mentioned this site and greeted them with: Mungu abariki ninyi (God bless you).

  623. Chas, good point about obeying the call to believe the gospel.

    And, no, you don’t come across as venting.

  624. Holly…
    Isn’t it amazing how LSers think that by making grace “expensive” (as opposed to “cheap” or “greasy”)– making an infinitely valuable gift of God into something “expensive” on their corrupt human scale–they have avoided insulting the Spirit of grace? I think many LSers have no sense of irony. I was surprised to find out what a heretic Dietrich Bonhoeffer was. So many “evangelicals” hold him up as such a shining example of Christian dedication.

    Regarding John 3:36, I think the main problem with LSers isn’t due to the ESV translation of John 3:36 per se, but that they don’t see that “obeying Jesus” in the context of the Gospel means obeying the call to believe the Gospel. That’s what “obedience to the faith” (Romans 1:5, KJV) is. LSers imagine that they have “obeyed the Son” in some conveniently-defined sense, “qualifying” them for salvation (and giving them a scale by which they can measure others). They don’t see that by their stubborn insistence on adding a requirement to the Gospel, they are not making Jesus their Lord, but just the opposite; they are rejecting His lordship. More in-their-face irony which they don’t get.

    Great point about “merited favor”. That’s it in a nutshell. And these same “Reformed Protestants” and “Evangelicals” will hoot and holler about the RCC’s false gospel, all the while proffering their own brand of the same thing. No wonder the Vatican is having such an easy time scooping the “lost brethren” into the RCC.

    Do I sound like I’m venting? I guess I am. Sorry.

  625. Hobbs, I try to avoid the poison as well.

    That’s a really bad translation of that verse.

  626. John, it’s probably best I just regard that stuff I read as poison and let it go. Guess it’s a lot about making a decision on where one stands and not wavering (easier said than done at times). Anyway, the guy was quoting the ESV perversion of John 3:36, where it changes ‘he that believeth not the Son shall not see life’ (from the KJV) into ‘whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life’. Says it all really.

  627. Hobbs, I don’t recall having heard that exact term. Since grace is “unmerited favor,” I suppose false grace would be “merited favor.” But the enemies of grace usually don’t have any problem with “merited favor” (salvation by works).

  628. ‘False Grace’ is one I heard the other day, guess it’s nothing new to people here? So there I go, googling ‘false grace’ like a lamb to the slaughter, knowing just what I’m in for…. and yep, sure enough, I get terrorised by all sorts of twisted ways to undermine a persons assurance. Oh well, suppose I’ll recover eventually.

  629. That’s good insight, it does seem sometimes like they think their fruit doesn’t stink 🙂 And they are positive you have none and are licentious. But I know where those accusations come from.

  630. Holly, if I hear someone call grace “greasy grace” or “cheap grace” or any of those types of terms, it makes me think they are uncomfortable with someone who is “undeserving” (relative to them) of receiving grace.

  631. The last article I wrote was yesterday about ‘greasy grace’. That term sickens me. Cheap grace originated from the ‘disciple’ Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn’t even believe in the Deity of Christ or the literal resurrection or the virgin birth. And this is a man to quote? People are oblivious to the fact people can be disciples and not believers and believers can not be disciples. Yet the famous gotquestions site says this is not possible. It is not a ‘two-step’ process they say. If not, then salvation is a process over time, and they cannot possibly know if they have achieved it.

    In addition they define Christianity as a person who has ‘repented of their sins‘ and ‘made Jesus Lord of their life‘.

    We don’t ‘make Jesus Lord of our life’, we believe He IS Lord, who He said He is, the great I AM (God, the Messiah, the Savior). Jesus is Lord of even the demons, He is Lord of all, maybe THEY might remember that.

    I almost never hear them use the word Savior. They use Lord, they use Master, (as did Judas). But is He their Savior?

  632. Here is one from today, by someone who made multiple comments “defending Christianity”:

    You have to be born again that’s what the Lord Jesus said and that mean’s turning from your sins and turning to Jesus for salvation…All other’s is wrong and Jesus is right.

    My comment: Yes, one must be born again. But, that does not mean “turning from your sins and …”

    This commenter, like so many others, is teaching that Jesus is necessary for eternal life, but that He is not enough. One receives eternal life by Grace through faith in Christ.

    Adding the unbiblical requirement to “turn from sins” to receive the free gift of eternal life changes the gospel into a false gospel of works that cannot save anyone.

  633. Also gotcha, Holly!

  634. Chas, definitely I did not mean to imply that the man who had a false understanding of what he needed to do to be saved was ‘almost persuaded’. 🙂 Just again, wrong identification.

  635. John and Chas, my comment was mistakenly meant to address Ras, not Chas, and the Jewish man not Ironside’s comments at all. Ras, not Chas (hence my confusion) said that he had the gospel down pat (almost). Intellectually convinced of false good news he said, which is where my almost persuaded comment came from. Whether Agrippa was sarcastic or not, I was just using the terminology.

    Hope that clears up any confusion.

  636. I admit that I should not have jumped to a conclusion based on one snapshot. That incident with the Jew was too scary.

  637. chas, I think people who become believers are often eager to start associating with other believers, and are not careful to avoid associating with groups who are teaching false gospels, whatever their particular motives may be. In so doing, they themselves begin to tolerate, then accept, and then promote false gospels.

    Galatians 2:4 refers to “false brethren,” who came in to fool the real brethren. And, it worked. So, it is impossible to tell which is which.

    People who teach false gospels are under God’s curse, no matter why they feel the need to do it. It is irrelevant why they do it, only that they do it.

  638. Here it is May 10, and still my posts of 5/6 and 5/8 have not appeared on that site, nor have I gotten any response to my email. Either something is wrong with my email, or they’re ignoring me. Posts from others have appeared in the thread since, so I know somebody’s checking things.

    Regarding Ironside, I did find an excerpt from his personal testimony online. In it he recalls going home from a party as a teenager and deciding to read his Bible;

    I had an undefined feeling that I had better pray. But the thought came, “What shall I pray for?” Clearly and distinctly came back the answer, “For what God has been offering me for years. Why not then receive it, and thank Him?”

    My dear mother had often said, “The place to begin with God is at Romans 3 or John 3.” To both these Scriptures, I turned and read them carefully. Clearly, I saw I was a helpless sinner, but that for me Christ had died and that salvation was offered freely to all who trusted in Him. Reading John 3:16 the second time, I said, “That will do. “O God, I thank Thee that Thou hast loved me, and given Thy Son for me. I trust Him now as my Savior, and I rest on Thy Word, which tells me I have everlasting life.”

    Then I expected to feel a thrill of joy. It did not come. I wondered if I could be mistaken. I expected a sudden rush of love for Christ. It did not come either. I feared I could not be really saved with so little emotion.

    I read the words again. There could be no mistake. God loved the world of which I formed a part. God gave His Son to save all believers. I believed in Him as my Savior. Therefore, I must have everlasting life. Again, I thanked Him and rose from my knees to begin the walk of faith. God could not lie. I knew I must be saved.

    (Bold, mine.)

    No mention of a need for anything else besides faith. Even the “right feelings”. It looks to me as though–after trusting in Christ alone for his own salvation–Ironside at times fell into the trap of adding a certain amount of “commitment” as being necessary for salvation when explaining the Gospel to others. I’ve seen that in so much “evangelical Bible teachering” since I left the RCC back in the ’70s. It’s like people are afraid to tell others about the free gift of salvation in Christ without attaching some kind of qualification to it just to make sure they won’t be teaching “licentiousness”. No wonder so many people are so confused.

  639. MacArthur could quote Ironside.

  640. Jason, based on Ironside’s purported recollection of this incident, he was frustrating grace.

    Whether or not he the man ever heard the gospel and believed in Jesus as his Savior, we can’t know.

    And, with respect to Ironside himself, we can hope that he had trusted in Christ alone, although we can never be sure.

  641. This anecdote about Ironside tells me that he is as scary as MacArthur. He kept a man out of heaven, and I don’t know if he ever entered himself. This is not a simple case of waffling. When we are in heaven, we will know who the Nicodemuses are.

  642. Chas, I understand what you’re saying, and you may be right. The man may never have heard the clear gospel, due to the unbiblical add-on.

    I was having trouble relating it to Agrippa, since the Apostle Paul gave him the real gospel.

    It’s also possible that the man heard the gospel from Ironside and believed, prior to Ironside adding the unbiblical part. It’s impossible to know. In either case, Ironside muddied the water with this false gospel add-on.

  643. John…

    As I see it, the real issue with the Jewish man in Ironside’s anecdote is that Ironside didn’t give him the true gospel of grace. The man thought he had to “give his heart to Jesus” and then “stand for the faith” to be “truly saved”. As a result, the man knew all about Jesus identity and purpose, but felt he couldn’t rest in the facts of what Jesus did for him because he was told that a “true commitment” is necessary for salvation. It looks to me like a classic case of “Yeah, eternal life is free, but you have to pay for it later.”

    It appears my 2nd try at posting in that thread has been unsuccessful. This afternoon I sent the site an email asking why. The owners of the site have responded to me in the past when I contacted them on other matters, so I expect to get something in response.

  644. Holly, I don’t agree that someone who says he intellectually agrees, but can’t “give his heart to Jesus” is only “almost persuaded.”

    I also think Agrippa was being flippant when he said he was almost persuaded. I don’t think Agrippa believed either “intellectually” or “with his heart.”

    Following is how I interpret what happened with Agrippa:

    First, in Acts 26:3, Paul compliments Agrippa for being an “expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews.”

    Then, in Acts 26:22, Paul said that he was being tried for “saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come.”

    Then, in verse 27, Paul asked Agrippa if he believed the prophets, and then said “I know that thou believest.”

    Paul was doing what we refer to as “leading the witness.” Paul knew that Agrippa, being an expert in all Jewish matters, would not disavow belief in the prophets. (Prior to his having become a believer in Christ, Paul, a Pharisee, would never have disavowed belief in the prophets. But, until he became a believer, he inherently was disavowing the prophets by disavowing Christ, of Whom the prophets said should come.)

    In verse 28, Agrippa gives his flippant response. My attempt at a paraphrase is a flippant remark by Agrippa in which he was saying “yeah, great argument, you almost had me. Now, let me get on with the business at hand.”

    None of us received eternal life by “giving our hearts to Jesus.”

    There is no difference between “head faith” and “heart faith.” If there were, none of us could ever have any assurance of eternal life. It would be a constant introspection of “I know I believe, but did I really put my heart into it?”

    Regarding the man that Chas referenced, based on the man’s previous comment (that his confessing Christ would break his mother’s heart), he reminds me more of the believers in John 12:42: Nevertheless among the chief rulers many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

  645. Chas, really sad, reminds me of Agrippa, almost persuaded…

    Ras – I agree, we’re really near the end.

  646. Ras, I think a lot of people (perhaps most in professing Christendom) are “intellectually convinced” of a false gospel, even if they say they have “heart faith” (it is often still in a false gospel).

  647. Chas
    Years ago I watched a video on Youtube (still there? I don’t know) with a Jewish New Testament scholar (Pinkus Lapid). He had the gospel down pack (almost) but he believed it was a gentile gospel and Jesus was a gentile Messiah. It wasn’t for him/Jews. In other words he was intellectually convinced of false good news. Lapid is dead and gone and we don’t know if he ever came to believe the true good news. We can hold out hope for the Jewish gent you speak of . I think we are so close to the end that the dam is about to burst (concerning Jewish people coming to Christ).

  648. Chas, I have seen at least one example of Ironside using life change as proof of the veracity of Christianity.

    I am not sure about Ironside’s overall body of work, but I do not use him as a source for favorable quotes.

  649. John…
    No, it sure doesn’t sound like grace, which is why I’m wondering about Ironside. I didn’t expect that from him.
    The Jewish man also said told him, “Intellectually, I am convinced, but give Him [Jesus] my heart I cannot.” Apparently, he had been fed the “give Jesus your heart” method of salvation by Ironside. I’m beginning to think that the LS false gospel is more deeply entrenched in the “evangelical church” than I thought.

  650. Chas, it sounds like there are some diehard works “salvationists” frequenting the site you are referencing.

  651. Holly…
    The message that the Ironside quote was taken from was a lecture series given by Ironside. I don’t know exactly when the lecture series was given, but the incident itself happened shortly before the 1906 SF earthquake. The lecture was given sometime after the quake.

    Btw, my comment uploaded to that blog has not yet appeared. Posts there are subject to moderation, and they don’t show until after they are approved. A couple of comments within the last 24 hours have appeared, so either my comment was rejected, or I mis-clicked and it was never uploaded. On the unlikely event that it was lost, I posted a similar comment about a 1/2 hour ago. We’ll see if it ever appears.

    One of the comments that have shown up contained this:
    “[Christ] must be above all and we must be ready and willing to give it all up for Him, be it family, house, job, security, safety, esteem, friends, even body and life. That is discipleship and how it is when we have truly given Him our heart and soul.… (Bold, mine.) They got “discipleship” right I suppose, but note the implied back-door requirement of “commitment” as proof of salvation.

    And this:
    “I have friends and family too and have shared the gospel with them and for one reason or another, they just won’t come to Jesus the way He requires.” The person seems totally oblivious to the fact that “the way He requires” us to come to Him is with empty hands.

  652. Holly, like I said I am not crusading against beer or wine (neither of which is prohibited in scripture/drunkenness is) nor cigars. I have smoked a few cigars in my time and have drunk more than my share of beers. I dron’t dink anymore (I mean don’t drink) and have not smoked a cigar in about a decade (never a regular smoker but was a regular drinker of beer—lotsa beer). When I did either I never thought I was doing it to the glory of God. I drank to be drunk. When I smoked, I smoked for the extra buzz. But neither vice made me unredeemed or unredeemable neither did they make me “holier”. Am I to think that since I “believe” (use the Calvinist definition) and no longer do such things that I am now (maybe) “saved”? Or do I wait a few more years (and a few after those) to know if I have been given saving faith? Naw, my mind is made up (meaning I believe) that Jesus died to pay for my sin and rose from the grave to give eternal life. I might drink to get drunk again. I might smoke a cigar for the buzz again. I can’t imagine doing so and thinking it was done in the name of the Lord. I’ll know I am running the race backwards (and I might—God forbid—enjoy it).

  653. RAS – what an interesting observation on your part. That totally makes sense to me. As long as what they do they assign to the glory of God, then they are sinless. Really, really interesting thought. I do get doing what we do to His Glory, but I think we’ll find out later some were done more in our flesh. The point is, there is no way we can know for sure which each and every thing, but THEY seem to know that their works are all good. But really how sad and scared they must have been inside, even in their pride.

  654. Spurgeon was the Billy Graham of his day.
    Both Spurgeon and Graham preached false gospels.

    Those that emulate either in their false gospel doctrine are under God’s curse.

    The most popular preachers are just that – the most popular. One does not have to preach the gospel accurately to be a popular preacher.

  655. Apparently Spurgeon has a Twitter account. Can you imagine being so obsessed with a man’s teachings that you create a social media account using his name? Charles Spurgeon (whoever he is) recently tweeted this gem, “The greatest enemy to human souls is the self-righteous spirit which makes men look to themselves for salvation.” Whether the quote is from the real Spurgeon or not the irony is that Spurgeon knew he was elect because he “used to”…but no longer… Talk about looking to oneself!

    Chas pointed out Spurgeon’s love of cigars and I have heard him quoted as saying that he smoked to the glory of God. I seen Calvinist’s “cigar and beer” clubs and the men all seem to have “Spurgeon beards”.

    I don’t bring this up to crusade against cigars and beer but rather to point out the hypocritical self righteous attitudes we can all harbor concerning our own vices and sins and Calvinism is a refuge for assigning some sins as beyond the capability of the elect while celebrating other vices and indulgences.

  656. Chas, I wonder. Not sure which articles were which with Ironside, some of his earlier stuff, he was coming out of the Holiness/Arminian/loadship movement. Later in life he spoke on repentance not being what people taught it to be. I sure hope he got it right. I’ve enjoyed his ‘Full Assurance’ and ‘Eternal Security’ but it’s been a number of years since I read it, so sure will have to be careful, thanks.

    On Spurgeon, he repented later in life about smoking cigars. I read somewhere he quit because he came to believe it was wrong. Here’s what’s funny. If when he realized that he believed it to be wrong, did he harbor that one viper for one or two more cigars? And if he had died in between, would his soul have been sunk?


  657. Hobbs me too… Spurgeon is a stronghold, so many seminaries tout him as the ‘prince of preachers’ and even seemingly free grace don’t take heed to the Word when they quote him. They assume he was saved, but they don’t ‘prove all things’ and look at his gospel.

    He wasn’t JUST a Calvinist. He was a hardcore holiness type preacher. Prove you’re saved or be damned.

    Yes, that part makes me mad. They won’t go in themselves, and try to keep others out too. It’s because they’re working for someone else.

  658. When I first ran across Ron Shea it was because I was doing my own research on all the instances of repent. I was looking for a secular example in history, and found Plutarch and I believe that’s how I found Ron and you guys too.

    But in my research I found how the word came about from the Latin and the meaning the Roman Catholic church falsely gave it way back when. And so this is why the error is so entrenched within so many false churches.

    Spurgeon’s sermons are just like a regurgitation of Pilgrim’s progress. And he’s made twice the sons of hell in so many preachers who also spew out the same false message that will condemn others.

  659. Jason, yes, very apt.

  660. Hobbs, that is why Holly calls it loadship.

  661. chas,that quote from Ironside does not sound like grace. No one has to confess Christ nor be baptized to have eternal life. Who is to say that the man hadn’t already believed unto eternal life?

  662. Holly…
    I sometimes wonder how Spurgeon would have reacted if someone with today’s attitude toward smoking had asked him when he would “repent” of smoking cigars.

    Besides Spurgeon, I’m wonder about H.A. Ironside. I just read an article attributed to him on another blog wherein he recounts a long talk he had with a Jew who had just heard Ironside speak at a San Francisco mission. Ironside talked to the man for hours, and at last the man said, “I am absolutely convinced now that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of Israel, and our people made a terrible mistake when they crucified Him so long ago.” Then Ironside told him, “I am glad to hear that. Now I trust you will come right out for Him, and by baptism confess His name.” The man then told Ironside how he couldn’t do that because it would “break his mother’s heart” and get him kicked out of his family, etc. Ironside used the incident as an illustration of how some people “love father and mother more than Christ” and implied that the man forfeited eternal life by not loving Jesus enough to leave his family.

    I posted a short response, saying that it was too bad that Ironside didn’t tell the man that all he needed to do to be saved was receive the free gift of God–eternal life–by simply believing in Christ’s sacrifice for him; that nothing else was required. The man might have believed right there, and then might even have had the strength to “stand for Christ” eventually (though of course that wouldn’t have been required for him to keep eternal life).

    It will be interesting to see the response to my post, which was the first comment.

  663. Hobbs, it makes me angry, too!

  664. As I read the end of that ‘turn or burn’ segment I too immediately recalled the ‘for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men’ verse. I was just going to search for the reference but carried on reading, only to find Holly had already got it. So I have to agree, Spurgeon is making it impossible for people there. And to think I would have just blindly submitted to this stuff before now; it sounds so ‘spiritual’. That sort of oppressive talk can send people to the funny farm – ‘loading men with intolerable burdens’ I’d say! Makes me angry.

  665. Holly, yes! He is setting a condition that no one can really meet.

    Notice how he says “the true penitent…” Penitence is not a requirement for eternal life. He has simply added another condition, thereby creating a false gospel.

    And, since he was a Calvinist, he preached a false god who would have had to have been the cause of the sin that Spurgeon claims to have so detested.

    Spurgeon has done so much harm to the spread of the gospel, and yet he is revered as “the prince of preachers,” and quoted as if he is scripture itself.

  666. These people get these ideas from listening to people like Spurgeon, who Paul Washer often mimics.

    From the Turn or Burn Sermon

    Besides the fact Spurgeon gets the meaning of Repentance wrong, take a close look at what Spurgeon claims about sin:

    If thou dost harbour one of those accursed vipers in thy heart, thy repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul. Think it not sufficient to give up thy outward vices; fancy it not enough to cut off the more corrupt sins of thy life; it is all or none which God demands. “Repent,” says he; and when he bids you repent, he means repent for all thy sins, otherwise he never can accept thy repentance as being real and genuine. The true penitent hates sin in the race, not in the individual—in the mass, not in the particular. He says, “Gild thee as thou wilt, O sin, I abhor thee! Ay, cover thyself with pleasure, make thyself guady, like the snake with its azure scales—I hate thee still, for I know thy venom, and I flee from thee, even when thou comest to me in the most specious garb.” All sin must be given up, or else you shall never have Christ: all transgression must be renounced, or else the gates of heaven must be barred against you. Let us remember, then, that for repentance to be sincere it must be entire repentance.

    Does this remind you of Matt 23:13 at the very end where he says the gates of heaven will be barred against them?

    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

  667. Jason, the reason why they don’t talk about what people should do, instead of what people will do, is because they are confused on the matter.

  668. Wow. Indeed, the scripture does not say, “saved people live changed lives”. Instead of saying that, why don’t they just quote Ephesians 2:10 and 1 Corinthians 3:15? Then they can clearly see that saved people should live change lives, and that salvation is not at stake should they fail. But they quote nonexistent scriptures instead.

  669. Holly, exactly!

  670. If the teaching of the Bible is ‘clear’, why don’t they use Scripture in context and let the Word speak for itself?

  671. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    The teaching of the Bible is clear. Many “believe” in the sense they think/say God exists, Jesus is His Son, etc. But, they live as if they do not because they go their own way while ignoring God. The Bible defines itself, it is spiritually discerned by people with the help of the Holy Spirit. True believers live changed lives as a result of their encounter with the Creator.

    My comment: the phrase “true believer” never occurs in the Bible. A changed life is not inevitable for a believer.

    A person receives eternal life by believing in Christ (alone) as Savior. This does not require “changed lives.” People should never look to changed lives for assurance that they have truly believed.

    One has to be perfect to enter into heaven – not just changed for the better. The only way one receives perfection is by imputation of Christ’s perfect righteousness. That comes the moment one believes in Jesus as his Savior.

  672. Jason, I’ll suppose we’ll never know in this lifetime what is true and what is not in the world, since we know who is prince of it right now and the whole world lies in his sway. But the suppositions and imaginations of people are hard to even pass by on social media. They have ‘proof’ that people are reptiles and other stuff I’d rather not even give any time to. It’s just that the ‘Christian’ community is doing the same over things that aren’t there in Scripture or are not cut and dried, but then they have ‘Bible code’ and they make their ‘shows’ and their followers gasp in amazement at what the person found in the ‘code’. Itching ears. Silly people. Very sad.

  673. Holly, I still can’t fathom why anyone thinks Calvinism/LS is good news.

  674. Interesting comments John.
    And I always wonder how they know if God chose them (if they really believe what their doctrine teaches – a lifetime of perseverance), or how do they know that they aren’t just deceived by God and his supposed ‘evanescent grace’. What is the point of that? Yet people actually believe that’s true, that God would do that, be deceptive. But then again, they don’t realize they’re making him the god that blinds people from the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Cor 4).

    As for commenter 2, what is his assurance of being saved? That God chose him? Again how does he know? For that matter, how does he know commenter 1 is a ‘brother/sister’? Because by their doctrine they can only know after this person has persevered.

  675. Yeah, it’s amazing what some people will believe. There’s somebody that believes just about anything you could even imagine.

  676. I am astonished at the craziness of Youtube. Until 2016, I never thought I’d live to see the day that a significant fraction of a major social network would take flat earth nonsense seriously.

    But this takes the cake. Some Youtubers are so hysterical that they accuse the US government, FEMA, and Walmart of mass slaughter and chip implantation. And I am wondering, where is the global earthquake? Why is America still here?

  677. A couple from today:

    Commenter number 1:

    Everything happens at it’s appointed time. No human ever converted anyone. God chooses you, not the other way around.

    Commenter number 2, responding to commenter number 1:

    Amen, hallelujah!
    So many deceived by false teachers into thinking that because they “accepted” Him that is their assurance of being saved!
    Salvation is all of the Lord!
    Great comment brother/sister!

    My comment: commenter 1 is seriously confused. Yes, God is omniscient and therefore knows what will happen and when. And, everything that happens, God allows to happen.

    But, that does not mean that God chooses, or ordains, everything that happens. If He did, that would mean that He was responsible for sin, and all other human actions. This is an abominable misrepresentation of the character of God.

    Commenter 2 also has confused Calvinism with Christianity. God desires that all men be saved. He has provided completely for our salvation, but only those who believe in Jesus as Savior have eternal life. God does not choose who will believe. Commenter 2 thinks that his misrepresentation of God is cause for celebration, rather than being a malignment of God’s character.

    The only biblical basis for assurance of eternal life is having believed in Jesus as Savior. Commenter 2 rejects the biblical basis for assurance, with the tacit faux replaceement basis for assurance of having been “chosen” by God for eternal life.

  678. John, the one who was unsure about being full of glee, is probably a response to Paul Washer’s insistence we’ll be applauding, but of course they feel since they were ‘chosen’ everyone is evil.

    The other comment on indirect ways to accept Jesus is so reminiscent of Billy Graham. This type of sidestepping and making up their own opinion on whether one is saved by how wonderful they are, is just sickening to me.

    So many are deceived by these types into thinking they can be good enough to ‘get there’. Even Billy Graham hoped when he got there that ‘St. Peter would let him in’ (never mind there is no such reference).

    The person doesn’t ‘like it when someone takes literal interpretations of the words of the Bible’?

    Ai yi yi, the people get more and more deceived. What interpretation would he like people to take? A guess? Subjective opinion? Majority rules? That’s how they operate.

  679. califgracer – great to hear from you again. Hope all is well with you and yours.

  680. Full text of a comment I read today:

    but there are indirect ways to “accept” Jesus – if you don’t believe, but act in his image, then you are accepting him indirectly – in other words your heart is accepting him even if your brain is not. I do not like when people take such literal interpretations of the words in the Bible – god does not always take things at face value – if you accept jesus as your savior but you are a horrible person, which do you think god would rather have – a horrible person who believes or a saintly person who does not??? I think we all know the answer.

    My comment: According to the Bible, God does not have a preference as to who receives eternal life and who does not. In fact, God wants all men to be saved. But, the Bible is clear that only those who have believed in Jesus as Savior have eternal life. Their behavior has nothing to do with it.

  681. A couple from today:

    While I celebrate the consummation of God’s kingdom with you, I’m not sure we should wait with glee to see the wicked destroyed. After all, unless God had chosen us by his unmerited grace, we’d be right there with firm on the receiving end of His wrath.

    My comment: God wants all men to be saved. He did not choose some to be saved and some not to be saved. Eternal life is available to anyone by grace through faith in Christ.

    “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.” There is a certain amount of confidence one can have. There is evidence to look for.

    My comment: One cannot have assurance, based solely on the word of God, if he is looking for other evidence based in changes within himself. The only evidence to look for is the biblical accounts of the gospel, and whether or not you believe the evidence.

  682. Reminds me of Brennan Manning.

  683. Hi So Cal Exile:
    I, too, am a Conservative Christian in So Cal, a state run by leftists (sigh). Re. Steve McVey, I read a couple of his books years ago (one was called, “Grace Walk,” the other, “Grace Land”). I recall some good things in the books speaking out against legalism, performance-based Christianity, compulsory duty based on fear and guilt in favor of experiencing freedom and joy in Christ, similar to Charles Swindoll’s, “The Grace Awakening.” Unlike Swindoll’s book, however, which in places condemned lordship salvation teaching, although he never labeled it as such, McVey’s writing, contrariwise, exhorts Christians to all get along. He claims not to be an ecumenicist, but he makes the following statements in “Grace Walk,” 1995, Harvest House, p. 164: “I am not suggesting that doctrine is unimportant. The faithful church holds to indispensable tenets of belief. However, a grace perspective on the church doesn’t demand that we all agree on every detail of faith and practice. . . . there must be room somewhere within the structure of God’s church for unity among the various members of the ecclesiastical family. Just because another brother may be different doesn’t automatically make him wrong. A grace perspective allows diversity among the family of God.”
    I once emailed his organization to get a clarifying explanation on its stance on lordship salvation teaching. The spokesperson who responded had no idea what lordship salvation was.

  684. SoCal, the author of “The Shack” wrote the forward to one of Mcvey’s books.

    That doesn’t really commend Mcvey to me.

    Please see previous comments linked below:

  685. Thoughts on Steve McVey? He’s got a few books on Amazon about grace, and gets the same accusations from the Lordship crowd that we do.

  686. One from today:

    Catholics don’t believe we can “work our way into heaven” without faith in Jesus. But to say that “I can accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior” and do nothing to put that faith into action and be saved is not Biblical.

    My comment: I heavily suspect that this commenter means that receiving eternal life requires faith in Christ plus some (unspecified and unquantified) works. That is consistent with Lordship “salvation,” which is a false gospel that acknowledges that Jesus is necessary for eternal life, but does not acknowledge that Jesus is enough for eternal life.

  687. Keith, that’s a very good scriptural reference for what seems to be going on with some of these religious folks.

    The reason we featured this article was to highlight what often passes for Christianity online. People will go back and forth defending their faith against detractors, whether or not their comments are consistent with grace.

  688. The zeal that the Calvinist/LS crowd has to make “disciples” or “Christ Followers” reminds me of what Jesus said about the Pharisees in Matt. 23:15:

    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves”.

  689. Jason, agree.

    The most ardent “defenders of the faith” often don’t have any understanding of the gospel.

  690. That comment also ended with two things that are not conditions for eternal life. As usual

  691. Here is an excerpt from a commment I read today:

    I’d argue it’s more than just having a relationship with Jesus that gets you saved. Judas had a relationship with Christ, and, well, see how that turned. God gave us specific commands to adhere to, and expects us to use his gifts wisely.

    My comment: We receive eternal life by grace through faith in Christ. Nothing more, nothing less. As the commenter aptly pointed out, Judas was a disciple and he did not have eternal life. However, the reason Judas did not have eternal life was because he did not believe in Jesus as his Savior.

  692. Here are excerpts from a couple of comments that I read today:

    Commenter number 1:

    I’m a sinner, but I believe and I believe I’ll barely slide across the plate if I just keep trying to get through those gates with some spark of goodness that causes me to earn my way.

    My comment: This person is confused. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

    Commenter number 2 (in response to commenter number 1):

    It is not a matter of earning entrance into God’s kingdom. But of accepting the grace he has offered through Jesus Christ, receiving the Holy Spirit and doing your part as he will show you.

    My comment: “Doing your part as he will show you” is not a requirement for receiving eternal life. If this commenter believes that we receive eternal life by grace through faith in Christ, he should have clearly delineated how we receive eternal life from what God’s will is for our lives once we become believers.

  693. Phil, yes, a treadmill is a good analogy.

  694. And john, How often have we heard church sermons about what we need to do instead of what we allow the Spirit to do through us? A treadmill is a great example of works salvation.

  695. Hobbs, you are right – we need to focus on Jesus. It is the enemy, not God, who wants us to focus on ourselves.

  696. I particularly like Curtis’s expression that he uses often on this blog: ‘the faith-rest life’.

    Without faith in Christ and our trust in His finished work alone on our behalf there can be no rest for anyone; we will continually be looking over our shoulder wondering if our works/behaviour are satisfying God enough to let us into heaven.

    Peace of heart and mind comes from making our loving Saviour the object of our faith, NEVER our works or behaviour.

    Takes a while for that to really sink in, did for me, still is sinking in.

    But it’s the most wonderful, surest foundation.

    So yup, me too glad that God worked through Jack Weaver to show me the ‘faith-rest life’.

  697. I am glad to be out of the woods.

    Afshin Yaghtin has a six hour video that was very interesting. It shows the processes people go through when they come out of false teaching into the gospel. Near the end, they even questioned what it means to be Baptist. Rarely do I see such openness from an IFB group. They made favorable mention of Ralph Yankee Arnold.

  698. kat, we are glad you are off of the hamster wheel.

    A Christian is simply one who has received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The false teachers are everywhere, keeping lost people lost, and trying to put believers back under the law.

    As the late Jack Weaver used to say, “the woods is full of ’em.”

  699. Jason, the LS crowd makes regular reference to Matthew 7:21-23 without knowing its real meaning.

  700. Katmazdobelieve

    The quote you shared states that True Christians obey the commands of Christ and love the Lord with all of their heart, mind and soul and love their neighbors as themselves.

    My comment: True. True Christians do one Christ’s command to rest in Him and his final work not learn and practice the art of being a Pharisee.
    I was invited to a women’s conference about being a spiritual warrior. I passed because the course is really about how to be a lawkeeper.
    I ran that hamster wheel too long. Now that I am off I will never forget back.
    The wheel kept me chasing something I can never have apart from Christ.

  701. I used to think that “true Christian” was implied by Matthew 7:21-23. I thought I had to be one in order to escape this judgement. Oh how I would brood over myself: was I really doing what Jesus said, or was I paying lip service? Armstrong exploited that weakness, as did Wurmbrand, Michael Brown, and all the false teachers. Did he really say to keep the Sabbath, be a martyr, or to disregard everything Paul said about my liberty in Christ? I eventually realized that LS itself says, Lord, Lord, and does not do what he says in John 3:16.

  702. Following is an excerpt from a comment that I read today:

    True Christians obey the commands of Christ and love the Lord with all of their heart, mind and soul and love their neighbors as themselves.

    My comment: According to the Bible, a Christian is someone who has received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

    The Bible never, ever uses the term “true Christian.”

  703. Brent, your experiences with LS sound similar to mine and other here. The peace and joy of God’s amazing grace to you.

  704. Chas, very good point about the “purpose driven” movement. And, getting people “working together” in the flesh under the guise of “getting busy for God” is very deceptive.

  705. Brent, thanks for sharing!

    I am very thankful that you are no longer sitting under LS teaching.

  706. “You gotta get busier” seems to be a mark of LS churches. Not coincidentally, it’s also a mark of “purpose driven” churches. The flesh trying to be “spiritual”, trying to redeem itself.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if “getting busy for God” turns out to be the leverage used by the false prophet to rally the people of the world to serve the beast.

  707. Just wanted to stop in and give a word of encouragement toward this site. I visit this site (but rarely comment) often and it has helped me understand one of the most misleading and subtle teachings out there which is LS.

    About 5-6 years ago I, by the grace of God, was introduced the errors of LS, which was the teaching I was setting under for the past 10-12 years. When I first started that church, I knew something wasn’t quiet right about the phrase make “Him Lord and Savior.” However, I was clueless to the concept of LS teachings. But I distinctly remember it not setting well within me about that phrase. What most people don’t realize that listen to and encourage LS teachings is that it prevents LOST people from hearing and believing the Gospel. What could happen, is a lost person under LS teaching could possibility jump to “works” to see if they are “truly saved” instead of hearing a clear Gospel message and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Thankfully, I was saved under a non-LS teaching church, however, started attending an LS leaning church a short while after I started college. I was saved but I quickly began questioning my salvation more and more because I wasn’t living up to the “standards” that man placed on me to determine if I was “truly saved.” Ironically, when I was looking to myself for “signs” of “true” salvation, what I was really doing was spending most of my time focusing on myself. But that is one of the subtly of LS teachings. To focus on anything but Christ’s finished work, mostly my works.

    Today, I enjoy not worrying about “making” sure I’m saved by my works. I trust in Jesus Christ’s finished work and have the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. I am so thankful for the Lord showing me through my new church, this site, and His word about how to rightly divide.

    This site IS a grace oasis and I am forever grateful.


  708. Incidentally, David Platt is a graduate of the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (NOBTS).

  709. John, I agree.

    I recently heard a sermon online by Greg Durell, the pastor of Heritage Bible Church in Terrytown, LA, just outside New Orleans. He said that Chuck Kelley, the president of the SBC New Orleans Theological Seminary, allowed the Roman Catholic Archbishop of New Orleans to speak to students at the seminary without offering an opposing viewpoint. The spirit of ecumenism is alive and well in the SBC.

  710. Keith, according to Wikipedia, David Platt is the president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s International Missions Board.

    Just wow. How can anyone who understands and believes the gospel have anything to do with the SBC?

  711. Jason, MacArthur is an unfortunate choice for anyone hoping for illumination.

  712. People in my family’s circle of friends are looking for bible study guides on assorted topics, such as women in ministry. My mom had the misfortune of picking out a MacArthur book, forgetting that MacArthur is one of the men who caused me trouble. MacArthur sometimes says insensitive things. I wish people would spend more time on the gospel. I can’t recommend any good books on that other stuff. There are too many bones to spit out. I tried to recommend Secure Forever, but that wasn’t about women. When I tell people that Jesus is not a probation officer, it brightens their day. I think a hundred solid pages on the gospel would do the same.

  713. Keith, Platt’s new book has the same false gospel as his other books.

    It will likely become the new go to book for “Bible studies” throughout the land.

  714. Who among us here at expreacherman is going to be the first to purchase the new book “Follow Me” by David Platt? (Sarcasm intended)

    The following is a short description of the book’s contents:

    “What did Jesus really mean when he said, “Follow Me”?
    In this new book, David Platt, author of the New York Times bestselling book, Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream, contends that multitudes of people around the world culturally think they are Christians yet biblically are not followers of Christ.

    “Scores of men, women, and children have been told that becoming a follower of Jesus simply involves believing certain truths or saying certain words. As a result, churches today are filled with people who believe they are Christians . . . but aren’t. We want to be disciples as long as doing so does not intrude on our lifestyles, our preferences, our comforts, and even our religion.

    “Revealing a biblical picture of what it means to truly be a Christian, Follow Me explores the gravity of what we must forsake in this world, as well as the indescribable joy and deep satisfaction to be found when we live for Christ.
    The call to follow Jesus is not simply an invitation to pray a prayer; it’s a summons to lose your life—and to find new life in him. This book will show you what such life actually looks like”.

    My comment: becoming a disciple or Christ follower requires first receiving eternal life by believing and resting on the truths of Christ’s finished work and His promise of eternal life for all who believe it. Assurance of eternal life is not conditioned on one’s intentions to be a Christ follower or the ongoing acts which should characterize a Christ follower,

    Platt seems to invite his readers to receive and have assurance of eternal life by becoming a lifelong follower of Christ, which to him requires forsaking worldly comforts and persevering in faithful service to the end of their lives.

    2 Tim. 3:13:

    “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived”.

  715. Jason, the whole thing is a muddled mess.

  716. “It’s not about you”

    I really hate that part. Jesus died for you. Of course it’s about you, or do they just not get it? By these words, they intimate that Jesus did not die for you. They exchange the atonement for martyrdom and the gospel for foolishness. Jesus’ feelings are hurt.

  717. Keith, agree that church attendance is not a requirement for proving one has eternal life.

    Whoever made the comment doesn’t really seem to understand the gospel.

  718. Saw this on Facebook today:

    “It’s not about you!

    Being a Christian is not individual-spirituality, self determined service, or rationalized obedience. One of the tests for true saving faith is the desire to gather with God’s people as the body of Christ and serving one another in a local church. To really do this you have to get over your self and the deception that God overlooks waywardness.
    Many people think of God in a therapeutic moralistic way. That view of God is idolatry since the object of worship is really you”.

    My comment: there is no such thing as “true saving faith”. Faith does not save; the object of faith does. Christ and Him crucified and raised is the only proper object of faith for receiving eternal life.

    Lack of desire to gather with God’s people does not indicate that one has not made Christ the object of his or her faith and received eternal life. It may, however, indicate that he or she is not making his or her faith productive and fruitful as God intends (Jas. 2:14, 17; Eph. 2:10).

  719. “which means you try not to sin again”

    What a load to bear and what a load of malarkey! God grades on a curve? He imputes perfect righteousness for effort? Trying (and we/he/she will never fail to fail) doesn’t resolve the sin issue nor does it render satisfaction to God. Wasn’t that the purpose of the Law—to show that trying is not gonna cut it?

    This is the problem with fruit fads. One person wants to see oranges and another wants bananas. The gospel is what God has received from the work of Christ, that’s the gospel. All the rest of it is fruit of the gospel—oranges, bananas and all! What Christ did on the cross satisfied the very heart of God and we are given the gift of life through faith alone. This is why fruit inspectors redefine faith as they do to always means faith plus…

  720. Excerpt from an internet comment I read today:

    Without breaking His own rules, the only way He could save you was by paying the just penalty that you were supposed to pay. To qualify, you need to repent of your sins (not just feel sorry for them, but also to turn away from them) and accept Him as your Lord (which means you try not to sin again).

    My comment: Jesus did pay for our sin. We receive eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. There is no requirement to be sorry for sin, to turn from sin, nor to try not to sin again in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. If any of those things were required, then eternal life would not be a free gift, but would be a trade for our willingness to do those works.

    The commenter is not teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, but is promoting the false gospel of Lordship “salvation.” This same commenter has made quite a few comments trying to prove the reality of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Unfortunately, his testimony is that he isn’t trusting in Christ alone for eternal life.

  721. Excerpt from a comment I read today:

    If you believe, you are saved…but, here’s the catch…if you believe, you wouldn’t wake up each morning with the desire to sin against others. If you believe, while you may not be perfect, you are going to do your best to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ during your time on earth as a human.

    My comment: There is no “catch.” Nor does the Bible guarantee that a Christian will always do his best to follow Christ in obedience. Doing one’s best is a work.

  722. Jason, I have prayed for those who attended the funeral. I am glad that you were able to share the gospel booklet with this gentleman.

  723. A friend of my family recently passed away. I had given him a booklet, and it was discovered lying open at his bedside. He had been a recovering drug addict. At the funeral, they said he was in heaven. I don’t know how clear they are on the gospel, but there are no fruit inspectors at funerals. Bad things are never said. Would that these people were consistent and applied every day what was preached that funeral.

  724. When reading yesterday, I missed the point that the commenter confessed works alone. I agree, very telling.