2 John 1:11: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
We recently featured an article on the upcoming “Harvest America” event, led by false teacher Greg Laurie. See link below:
Lordship Salvation: Greg Laurie’s Bitter Harvest
In that article, we mentioned several pastors who had endorsed Greg Laurie and/or the event.
This article will provide a complete list of endorsements from pastors and musicians, all straight from the “Harvest America” website, along with the quotes provided by the endorsers. Some of these names may be familiar to you. They may be editorial pundits for popular news media, pastors of megachurches, famous evangelists, highly-credentialed officials of large organizations, or popular musicians. They have one thing in common: they are participating in Laurie’s evil deeds.
We have had some of our commenters seemingly scratching their heads over why someone who seems clear on the gospel may provide an endorsement for Laurie. I was able to come up with only four possible reasons, none of them good:
1. They are ignorant of the false gospel that Greg Laurie teaches
2. They are ignorant of the gospel and believe what Greg Laurie teaches
3. They are not discerning enough to tell the difference between the gospel and its counterfeits
4. They know that what Greg Laurie teaches is a false gospel, but growing their own audiences and selling their wares outweighs any concern they might have
Following are the endorsements:
Billy Graham – Evangelist and Author
Rick Warren – Senior Pastor, Saddleback Church
Dr. Jack Graham – Senior Pastor, Prestonwood Baptist Church
Dr. Ronnie W. Floyd – Southern Baptist Convention President
Robert Morris – Founding Senior Pastor, Gateway Church
Dr. George Wood – General Superintendent
Dr. Tony Evans – Senior Pastor, Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship
Matt Chandler – Lead Pastor, The Village Church
Jud Wilhite – Senior Pastor, Central Christian Church
James MacDonald – Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel
Dr. Wayne Cordero – Senior Pastor, New Hope Oahu
Craig Groeschel – Senior Pastor, Life Church
Daniel L. Akin – Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary President
Kevin Ezell – SBC North American Mission Board President
James Merritt –Lead Pastor, Cross Pointe Church
Steve Gaines – Senior Pastor, Bellevue Baptist Church, Current President of the Southern Baptist Convention
Sandy Adams – Pastor, Calvary Chapel Stone Mountain
JD Greear – Senior Pastor, The Summit Church
Frank Cox – Senior Pastor, North Metro Baptist Church
Chuck Swindoll – Senior Pastor, Stonebriar Community Church
Rev. Wilfredo “Choco” De Jesús – Senior Pastor, New Life Covenant Church:
Levi Lusko – Senior Pastor, Fresh Life Church
Bayless Conely – Senior Pastor, Cottonwood Church
Max Lucado – Minister of Preaching, Oak Hills Church
Bart Millard – Lead Singer, MercyMe
Jentezen Franklin – Senior Pastor, Free Chapel
Phil Wickham – Singer, Songwriter
The men who have provided the above endorsements should be avoided for lack of due diligence, misunderstanding of the gospel, lack of discernment, or callous disregard for the most important truth in the world.
Holly, churches and denominations of all stripes have been coopted by governments over the years to help sell their worldly programs. The US government had reportedly paid at least $7.3 billion of government COVID “scrip” to churches and their affiliates as of July, 2020.
Evidently a lot of black pastors have been getting involved to coerce their flock. I wonder how that is affecting their bottom line?
I pray all of this causes much confusion in their camp, causing them to turn on one another. I pray that people will see the difference between those who are plying them with flattering words and those who are speaking the truth in love and concern. I am seriously struggling with not wanting to pull out some of the imprecatory Psalms and place some names on it. It’s infuriating to me, the sheer wickedness involved in many in our government, and wolves misleading others.
Holly, it is sickening to me as well, and it has been played out so many times, by this pastor, J.D. Greear, Robert Jeffress, and Franklin Graham, among others.
Chas, it is frightening. I am not saying this particular man is one, but think on the AC. And the mark. And how in the future some pastors will be saying, ‘we took it. We prayed to make sure it wasn’t the mark of the beast, etc., and it’s not, because this guy is Jesus Christ come to the earth again. Look how he is providing for us and keeping us safe’.
Johninnc, interesting how this pastor is able to supernaturally divine which part was instructional and which part divisive.
The fact that he is took it further to discuss what he and his wife did, makes it clear to his congregation he means this:
Make sure you pray and you will come to the same conclusion I did, because after all, I’m the pastor.
Me and my wife did this joyfully because WE CARE about our bodies and the community and we’d do it all over again.
Now Dr. Axe may actually be informed, but since I find him divisive, and so therefore, whether what he said may have some truth or not, this Doctor’s ‘nuanced ethical point’ should be ignored because it is ‘not helpful’ (but mine is, so please hear how prayerful I was).
Sorry for the sarcasm, but the spiritual manipulation is sickening to me.
Chas, I thought the pastor should have taken a bold stand for bodily autonomy and civil rights. And, I think he should have asked the church members to be respectful of each other’s personal health decisions. Instead, he was fervently advocating for the shots, while undermining their purported efficacy with “I would take three more if offered!” The exclamation point wasn’t a typo. If the pastor thought the shots worked, why would he want three more?
I find that pastor’s letter to be frightening. So his choice to get jabbed was made “prayerfully”. Which means his choice was guaranteed to be right? And it was made “in the interests of personal and communal health.” Which means a decision to not get jabbed is against “the interests of personal and communal health”?
Can you say “virtue signal”? Moral bullying?
Kudos for getting through to Farag to any extent. Thanks for that info. Sounds like, Farag’s “leading” to emphasize the “B” is not so much a “leading” as it is being dragged by his lapels?
Well, as long as he gets there…
Holly,I think it goes both ways. There is a prominent Presbyterian (ARPC) church in Columbia, SC, that featured a guest lecture entitled “Following Jesus in the Scientific Realm.” The lecture was part of a summer lecture series on the theme of “following Jesus in an uncertain world.”
This particular lecture was delivered by David Ax, a molecular biologist from Biola University in La Miranda, California. Among the things that professor Ax discussed were warning against censorship in scientific pursuits and to be careful about what you accept as scientific truth. Among his comments were: “I’m not saying you shouldn’t (get the vaccine), I’m just saying let’s be really careful.”
The lecture apparently caused such a controversy within the church (which includes South Carolina governor Henry McMaster), that the pastor sent a letter out to the church to address it. Following are some of the pastor’s quotes from the letter:
I was not present but have since listened to it. While the first half of the lecture was instructional, the second half employed the issue of Covid-19 as an illustration of the confluence of science and faith. And while he did not specifically say he was opposed to the vaccine, some of you concluded that he was. Research on Twitter seems to confirm his opposition. And he is at liberty to hold such a point of view…
For what it’s worth, my wife and I received both Pfizer vaccines, and I would take three more if offered! This is a personal choice of mine made prayerfully and in the interests of personal and communal health.
While the nuanced ethical point Dr. Axe was trying to make was valid, the example he chose caused deep divisions within our congregation and is not helpful in getting us through this extremely difficult season.
My comment: It is really sad that a scientific viewpoint that challenges the dominant political narrative is met with hostility by a church congregation. It sounds as if the theme of their lecture series should be “following Jesus by following the uncertain world, without question.”
You know one thing I’m becoming really aware of, is there are people in churches that have load-ship pastors or Calvinist pastors who are urging them to take the vaccination. Pray that those things might make those people think and pray and search the Scriptures. They must really feel like they are between a rock and a hard place right now.
A couple of us wrote him because so many we knew had been posting his stuff. I emailed him personally more than once. I also talked about the book of John and the only emphasis being believe, and why would he think it’s wise to use a passage that uses confess when elsewhere it’s seemingly contradicted? (John 12:42-43)
He did not respond, so I made that comment several times on his page then left it there. I pray more and more might be convinced as to what the clear gospel is.
Just found your comment from last week.
It’s interesting how Chuck Smith keeps coming up in discussions from time to time, Hopefully it’s a sign that many people he left confused about the Gospel are beginning to understand the Gospel as they put CS’s teaching in perspective. Optimistic, I know, but there it is.
Re: J.D. Farag and his ABC method of salvation; I heard him say in a message a month or two ago that he felt himself being led to “emphasize the ‘B'” (Believe) element of his “how to be saved” formula. It sounded as though he could be moving toward dropping the “C” (a reference to Romans 10:9). He does appear to have a penchant for simplicity, attempting (at least) to get to the biblical essence of whatever issue he deals with. If he ever arrives at the proper application of Romans 10, he just may drop the “C” altogether and get the way of salvation right.
Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel stuff resurfaced yesterday via the same woman who suggested I didn’t love Jesus because I had opened up a tic toc account. (My daughter suggested I could use it to do little Bible verse shorts – we’ll see).
Anyways, Jack Hibbs came up as well as J.D. Farag and his ABC method of becoming a Christian. She got very angry evidently, said she was fuming because I wouldn’t answer her (I didn’t see whatever her answer was, I only heard this because of someone who did see it), and she called me ‘gossip, gossip, gossip’ and told me I was judging them 🙂 I had originally explained Rom 16:17-18 is different than just judging someone to ‘not be saved’ (as I had seen her do on more than one occasion).
Amir Tsfarti also was involved in the discussion, and I let the people know on the thread that he too had error they needed to be careful of. Not sure if he still has that error, but he also had a works gospel and taught that Jesus was the Archangel Michael.
So, just took a peek here again, and saw your comment — answering you from last year 🙂
Re: Chuck Smith and his view of eternal security…
I was also a longtime “student” of Chuck Smith, beginning in the mid-’70s. I’ve posted about this before, but as it has come up again, at the risk of being redundant I’ll post it again.
While sitting in the main sanctuary at CCCM in the late ’70s I heard CS say this:
Sadly, “Pastor Chuck” was not averse to cute, cleverly-worded platitudes like that, which only served to confuse people and undermine the Gospel. And so there he was, pushing LS whether he realized it or not. Since he did promote direct Bible study itself consistently, some of us were delivered from his errors but others have doubled-down on them.
Chuck had many issues, I guess one could make the comment that no one is perfect, or judge by demeanor vs. doctrine, but I think we have to take heed to the doctrine before anything to save ourselves from so many problems (1 Tim 4:16).
Chuck may have said he didn’t believe works saved, but went on to say works-based Catholics were Christians too. That’s just sad, compromising, and costing those people so much by not telling them the truth.
Eunice, thanks for stopping by.
You said: What he said is that after one is saved, then works follow because the Christians WANT to follow in Christ’s footsteps! Also Chuck DID believe in eternal salvation
My comment: If “works follow” once someone receives eternal life, then that means if works don’t follow that a person does not have eternal life. Also, what kind of works? How many works? Do you see why this could interfere with assurance for a believer and cause him to look to himself and his works for evidence of eternal life, rather than to the finished work of Christ?
What Chuck Smith says may be compelling to some people. I prefer a more trusted source, like Jesus, who said:
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
There is no mention of works here, automatic or otherwise. Do you see how Chuck Smith may have deceived you?
Eunice, we have received numerous comments from well-grounded believers over the years warning us of Chuck Smith’s false theology. But, even if I had never heard of Chuck Smith, your comment alone would be sufficient for me to avoid him. After all, you sat under his teaching for about 16 years and you reference works as automatic for believers. Your comment is one of the fruits of his false teaching.
The late Pastor Chuck Smith at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, NEVER said that one must do works to receive salvation. What he said is that after one is saved, then works follow because the Christians WANT to follow in Christ’s footsteps! Also Chuck DID believe in eternal salvation. He was my pastor for about 16 years before we moved and I had the great privilege of going to Israel with Chuck – six busloads- where I received more of the Word! On Sunday mornings he preached on a few verses in great depth from his verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book teaching on Sunday nights. So much undeserved criticism of Christian pastors here by so many. May I suggest that the criticisers read their Bibles and pray for the correct understanding of what they are reading! Pastor Chuck Smith did not pretend that he had all the answers. He told us to read the Bible for ourselves. A very humble man!
Craig Groeschel seems to be LS, based on comments we have had here in the past. Please see links below:
Somebody asked me about Craig Groeschel from Life church. I knew the name was familiar so I came here. Just for additional information sake on searches, I thought I would share.
There was no gospel anywhere on their site that I could find initially. I realize he praises Greg Laurie, so that wasn’t great.
But if you go to his site, plenty of info about his mega church & media churches in multiple locations, music and staff and making gospels. But no gospel or statement of faith to be found easily. Finally at the bottom of ‘who we are’, there was a button on beliefs.
They say salvation is the free gift, then say, When we turn from our self-ruled life and turn to Jesus in faith we are saved. It reminds me a little of the throne and circle story Billy Graham used to share. It’s ‘close’ but they have to be ‘safe’ almost by making sure you turn from something.
They also stated they were part of the ECC, which is a ‘reformation’ church. Men and women can both be pastors at an equal level as well as infant baptism (their roots are Lutheran). Some of the leaders are promoting LGBTQ inclusion in church membership as well as using terms under ‘freedom’ such as ‘gender identity’.
As far as Groeschel, he is also an author of many books which all appear to be 5 star. Tends to be a red flag for me too.
Thought since I looked up some of these things, I’d share them for future reference.
Holly, Ray Comfort is bad news.
Some of our readers may have missed the article we did on him a while back. Please see link below:
I was going through Ray Comfort(less) tracts and noticed the same techniques. One tract recommends another, or a study Bible etc. Quite a marketing ploy. Busy making merchandise out of someone. Some I noticed only had ‘repent’, then others had ‘turn from all your sin’.
He’s not even consistent in his false gospel.
Their books and motivational speeches get boring. There is no product differentiation. If you seen one, you seen them all.
Holly, it is all “cross-selling” – providing testimonials for one another and their books, irrespective of whether or not they contradict the gospel.
People who teach false gospels are under God’s curse (Galatians 1:8-9) and the people who aid and abet them are participating in their evil deeds (2 John 1:11).
They all endorse each other. Greg Laurie used to endorse John MacArthur too and vice versa until they denied it via Phil Johnson. Laurie also called Rick Warren’s “Purpose Driven” movement a ‘move of God’.
And they all make lots of money…
It’s funny. I was looking up free-grace materials for pre-marital stuff. I know that I have to be careful with all of that, but one of the links was the popular ‘free grace’ site. And it was strange because Laurie was one of the links that came up. The writer called Laurie ‘well-intentioned’.
I always wonder how they know that.
There are so many more. If you tied all these guys together, you’d have a huge pack of wolves.
I don’t pretend to know for sure what their motives are, but the first appears to be fame and fortune. Because if they were discerning and/or began to understand the truth of the gospel, how could they promote all these different false gospels?
Holly, that’s quite a list. It probably represents quite a few different plans of salvation.
You know Chuck Swindoll was so mainstream when I was little, and thought of as a good Bible teacher.
I find it chilling really to read him saying God has raised up and speaks through Greg Laurie. Really? Because he says so from his good discernment?
I remember years back him quoting from the Mess-Age occult like paraphrase and although I really hadn’t ever listened to him much, I knew he was not one to listen to. He also favorably quoted people like the writer and ‘translator’ of the paraphrase, universalist Eugene Peterson. Also favorably quotes the book the ‘Shack’.
Other unscriptural people and events he has endorsed? From Contemplative/emergent types to Calvinists and loadshippers, he’s all over the place.
Sue Monk Kidd
John, I respect yoyr decision.
Phil Wickham, and the others who endorsed the Greg Laurie event, are harming the spread of the gospel by lending their endorsements to the event.
I would expect to find as much false doctrine from popular “Christian” musicians as I would find from popular “Christian” preachers.
I was thinking on Phil Wickham and some of his lyrics. Similar idea to Bethel, Hillsong and others. It’s a shame that so much of Christian music has unsound lyrics, even the ‘old hymns’. Victory in Jesus comes to mind.
Seeing Phil Wickham’s name also reminded me of the fiasco with the group Harvest crusade had back about five years ago which dressed up as women to keep with the ‘Halloween spirit’ and one of course chose Dolly Parton.
Anyways, evidently they turn from convenient sin and close their eyes to the rest.
Jason, his criticism of this site has been fed, in part, by disgruntled former commenters here that were not willing to follow our guest rules.
I would rather not give him a forum here, so I would respectfully ask that we move on.
Davis Stewart posted links to Expreacherman. So his criticism of Jack is somewhat surprising.
I don’t know if most people know that Jentezen Franklin is kind of a word of faith type pastor. He used to pastor two churches, don’t know if he does now, but one was back east, and he’d fly back and forth in his private jet. He had a book on the ‘Daniel Fast’, not sure if he abused that Scripture in Daniel before or after Rick Warren.
He promised all sorts of things along with healing and overcoming the flesh, etc. These people who make merchandise of others and fill their coffers, I always wonder if they believe in anything they’re saying, or just charlatans. We know they don’t have the gospel right, but they just keep endorsing each other so their ‘ministries’ grow in wealth.
Agreed Johninnc and I hope this is o.k. to respond.
Sometimes we’ve done things before and learned by our mistakes Brad. And we should learn when to let things go I believe.
John, I support you and pray for you and this ministry. I am thankful for your firm stance on error that would creep in through feelings or experience. A few might not understand, but over the years I have learned how thankful I am that people stood firm and did not compromise the truth.
I have watched this ministry for years and years, and it was quite awhile before I first responded. I saw one website lambast Jack for his firm policy to not allow certain errant thoughts to be continually pressed. This same man defends Spurgeon, is a KJVOnlyist, and was indited for child molestation, but he speaks of a ‘two-second nod’ towards Christ.
Regardless, I’ve watched you both over the years, neither of you lording it over anyone, but feeding His flock willingly. I know what a big sacrifice that is. How seriously you take this, and how it’s done for Him. Praying for that crown of glory for you too on that day John.
May the younger in Christ submit themselves to those who are elders in Christ, may me submit to each other, and humble ourselves under His mighty hand (being clothed with humility).
Love in Christ, and hope we can get back to the reason for this post ❤
Brad, you may either accept the way I choose to administer this site, or not. I don’t owe you any more explanation.
Suffice it to say, it is not a case of the “what-ifs.”
Some of your recent comments have become a distraction, and this site does not exist to cater to your whims.
If you would like to continue to participate at Expreacherman, please do not continue to challenge the way it is administered.
Then why did you do it before? Twice in my case.
What happened that was so terrible for you to change this policy? Or is it just a case of the “what-ifs”?
Shawn, in my opinion, the exact details of Holly’s story aren’t really the point.
The theme is that providing contact information to members of online forums can result in people being led astray by false doctrine.
I would prefer to leave it there.
I know that many people would like for me to relax the policy at ExPreacherman of not sharing contact information between visitors to the site.
Please let this serve as the final word that I am not going to do that.
This account of a lady from your church is quite confusing. I feel like I’m missing something. What sort of experiences was she referring to? Like she used to drink for example and now she doesn’t? Supposed “Fruit” in her life? Born again experience?
Daniel – that woman happened to him.
I didn’t know it was her, but she was elevating her experiences, while saying she believed it was by grace alone, and said these certain things she did or did not do even at the worst time of carnality was why she knew she had the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit was with her (something to that effect).
And she denied all along that is what she was doing. He asked her to stop but she had to continue. And he brought it up to me although I didn’t know it was her. I was with Adam at dinner at the skilled nursing and I told him to tell her to stop the conversation that he didn’t agree with her and if she continued he’d take it public. He took it public, and I wasn’t around to help, and some others who didn’t know the background and behind the scenes emailing kind of gave him a hard time and defended this poor, sweet woman…. (not).
And although she may have believed the gospel, she continued to want to talk about her experiences as some sort of evidence.
The whole think really shook him up. Please pray for him, it was not fair what happened, and I feel so badly about it too.
Kate – thanks… I blame myself for allowing her to continue too long, it’s why I appreciate John and others who don’t bear too long with it.
“Sadly one was a fellow commenter here, Ben C, and he has since pulled away from Christianity because if that’s what it is, he wants no part of it.”
Holly, Ben C (name edited by administrator)? Him? Our friend is not involved with christianity anymore?
Thanks. Your words are an encouragement as much as a warning for me.
I hope this is o.k. to address all here, as this came to mind.
I found a group to worship with locally and it was through meeting each other online. It was nice in that when you find others with like minds, it’s a blessing. Trouble was one woman said she was free grace but started introducing little things that she didn’t find trouble with. That seemed to be her measuring stick, she wouldn’t back up what she was saying with Scripture and wouldn’t hear when we tried to tell her feelings and experiences prove nothing. Still she could not stop using her experiences as evidence that she was saved. And she would tell others.
She stopped this or she never did that. Or she had certain things happen that proved to her she was saved. She never gave that up as I was to find out. The people that I had introduced to her as friends she started emailing behind the scenes. One called me up when I was at my son’s skilled nursing home in the beginning months. She was so upset that this other woman’s experiences had led her to believe she was not saved because she did not have the same experiences. I felt TERRIBLE that I had introduced these two who would have never met. The young one still is shaken up about it. Yet another couple have fallen away, not being able to live up to this woman’s experience.
Furthermore, I was to find she had done this with several (and since only 5 or 6 people contacted me, I’m guessing there were more).
Sadly one was a fellow commenter here, Ben C, and he has since pulled away from Christianity because if that’s what it is, he wants no part of it.
I will be sure from now people are of the same mind, to make their case with Scripture vs. feelings or experiences. This made many young ones stumble, so it’s not blatant lordship we deal with but those who are stubborn and stick to what they feel or think or experience and will not hear differently from Scripture. We need to submit to each other and His Word and pray for those who teach us and are pastors to us.
People who undermine these people behind the scenes don’t know what they’re doing. The Lord knows. This lady tried hard, in fact the one young believer (who was attending my online Bible study) she told her that she had to choose between her or me. She was too afraid to stay with her because now she had her believing she might not be saved. Woe to those who make a young one who believes in Him to stumble. Some are intent on drawing followers away after themselves.
I hope all are wise in who they listen to and no matter what, that we go to His Word and contrast what they are saying, or actually see if we can find anywhere in Scripture that says what they are saying.
Southern Baptist theology shares the same roots with Calvinism.
I can’t understand the Belieber meme. Is Justin Bieber free grace? Hillsong no.
Spoke to a Pastor earlier of a Baptist Church who told me he believes there will be evidence of salvation in a person’s life after they have trusted Christ.
I asked him before he told me this whether he agrees with Calvinism or not. He answered no he doesn’t.
I told him that he believes in “perseverance of the saints” which is one of the five fundamental points of Calvinism (TULIP) which teaches that there will be evidence of salvation after being saved. He was agreeing with Calvinism and not agreeing with it at the same time.
Not that it’s any comfort to Mary and Kerin, but from where I sit, Southern California USA is no better off than Australia where finding a healthy church is concerned. I live smack dab in the middle of what used to be considered “Gospel Gulch”, aka: Orange County. During the ’70s It was thought to be a hot bed of Evangelical activity, a sort of Christian Disneyland. There have always been tons of churches around, even if you scrape away the Roman Catholic and other apostate denominations before taking a look. But even these churches have become so doctrinally compromised–especially where the basic Gospel is concerned–it’s a virtual wasteland. Laurie’s LS-fest at Angel Stadium last weekend is a case in point, and just yesterday a big Catholic church right next to me–apparently taking a cue from Laurie–was having some kind of noisy “youth gathering” or some such, OUTDOORS, of course. I couldn’t sit in any room of my house without hearing the thump-thumping of high-powered sub-woofers as some band churned out their quasi-spiritual dreck, all of it RCC-approved, I’m sure. I’ve become of the opinion that in one sense at least, having NO church near you is better than having any noisy FALSE church near you. At least you can study your Bible in peace and quiet.
Holly, yes, it was Billy Graham that popularized the terminology, and as he was so well trained and promoted to immense popularity by the catholic church and apostate protestantism, we have the unending attack of satan, false gospels constantly coming through all the Billy Graham wannabees.
Delaware feels like a third world country. No sound church in site. I know one friend in Eldoret, Kenya who is without a church. Kakamega is 90 miles away, but three hours (No freeway). That is really sad. He liked Holly’s article on loadship.
The term, the Great Exchange, now causes me to cringe.
It’s the model of the Billy Graham ‘crusades’. And what a better way to have huge numbers?
Give your life to Him.
Exchanged life, yours for His.
Surrender all to Him.
Commit your life to Him.
What a terrible joke. Do they really think they’ve given something worthwhile as an exchange for eternal life?
The thing that angers me, is that the Word doesn’t ask for this, nor use this is any examples of the apostles preaching the gospel. And if they are such ‘men of God’ shouldn’t they know the basics of God’s Word?
Wonder what they brought into the coffers?
Mary, I support John in the very same thing through my own bad experiences. What may seem one way to us may still be wisdom in the matter. Jack made these policies a long time ago with John, and over time having a blog myself for many years, I’ve learned it’s wise not to share emails for a number of various reasons.
We need to be in prayer support for these ministries who have been so helpful to many.
The latest article said that 10,000 people gave their lives to Christ at the harvest event. That terminology is, from my view, the latest new way to say “salvation” by these groups. Now how exactly do you “give you life to Christ”? Works, of course. Turn from your sins, and follow Jesus.
Mary, it is because we have had some abusive situations arise from having made limited exceptions in the past.
See Guest Rules:
Why would you not, it seems you have become so strict with things.
Mary, it is the general policy of Expreacheeman not to share email addresses, even upon mutual request.
Welcome, this is a wonderful site, glad you found it, I live in Australia, would like to hook up with you, we are screaming out for fellowship in Australia, as we are without churches. We are a lonely minority, at least in the USA they have Grace churches, we feel like a third world country when it comes to biblical churches. If you would like to hook up, please ask Johnnic to give you my email address.
The words “trust”, “believe” and “faith” are used synonymously in the Bible.
Just as they are in the English language.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)
Step 1: We hear the word of truth
Step 2: We trust/believe that word of the truth (the Gospel) and are saved
Step 3: We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise
Step 4: The Holy Spirit’s seal is the guarantee or “earnest” of our salvation
Step 5: This guarantee of our salvation is present until our redemption (or entrance into Heaven)
Step 6: We physically die and go to Heaven
Two very important verses that clearly lay out the linear process of God’s gift to us.
I don’t see any works on our part in this process; to earn, maintain or prove salvation.
Bethel, Hillsong, NAR, Owuor: so many abominations combined. LS is just one.
Brad is correct, that Hillsong is lordship salvation. Their own website states that you must turn from sins and live for Jesus to be saved. I have also heard Brian Houston say that. All of the supposed “feel good” ear ticklers are still lordship salvation in their presentations of salvation. Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, they all teach works for salvation, even as they teach “prosperity” and “dream destiny” in so many other unbiblical teachings.
For anyone reading this who is still unclear on whether faith is a work or not; the Bible is crystal clear on this:
Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Hillsong from my personal experience is certainly legalistic in their teachings.
I spoke to 2 members of that church who both were believing in works for salvation and faith alone for salvation simultaneously.
I also spoke to one of the Pastors there who got upset with me for attempting to correct him civilly on his theological erring from God’s word. He condemned me for preaching as if he saw preaching as a bad thing. An odd thing to hear from someone who calls himself a “Pastor”.
I want to coin new terms here in the interest of simplicity. There are two factions of Christianity:
– Feel-good false Christianity
– Factual true Christianity
The first means those who feel really good about calling themselves Christians, but who (saved or unsaved) believe and/or teach false interpretations of the Bible.
The second means those who have trusted in Jesus Christ’s atoning sacrifice for their sins alone for their salvation, who understand and reject the legalistic activity of backdooring/frontdooring the Gospel message with added un-Biblical requirements.
Jason, from our comment history, Hillsong is charismatic/Pentecostal – speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit.
I thought the Hillsong false gospel was the lordship false gospel. Am I wrong?
Thank you to all who welcomed me and answered my query about Michael Youssef, it is wonderful to share fellowship with true brothers and sisters in Christ.
It seems that even here in Australia it is near impossible to find a church that sticks to the truth of the Gospel. From my experience I have found that they lean either to the Hillsong false gospel or the LS false gospel, both of which I couldn’t get away from fast enough.
Seems to me that the “Great Apostasy” we are warned about is hugely underway here in Australia, which makes sites like Expreacherman precious indeed to those who seek the truth.
God bless you all.
Kerin – welcome!
I start notes for myself so that when others ask I can mention the error. I likely got this from someone here on expreacherman, but don’t know who to attribute it to. So I’ll share it because it cites his own book.
Michael Youssef – “Jesus, Jihad and Peace” – page 221
“But to obtain this free gift, you have to surrender. You have to give up and let Jesus take control of your life. You have to surrender your ‘weapons’, your selfish wants, your ambitions, ..your insistence on living to gratify your appetite for pleasure, material things, money, fame….drinking, drugs, gambling, pornography, adultery…bitterness, vengefulness, anger…Gratefully accept the free gift of salvation and lay down your weapons. You will be accepted and welcomed into God’s family now and forever’.
No distinction between Salvation and Service, Justification and Sanctification, Grace and Works, Free gift and reward in heaven, Believer and Disciple, instead he merges them all together and ends up preaching a false gospel of ‘faith + works’.
No clarity of the Grace gospel is given but a garbled, accursed, confusing gospel which does NOT save.
Hi Kerin and welcome. Your experience with LS teachings sounds like what many of us have been through here. Just believing the good news of our salvation through Christ is just too simple for many, so they add to it. They call what we believer here, grace alone, “mental ascent” to some facts about Christ; but it’s not just mental ascent; it’s faith or trust in the finished work of Christ. Of course, even faith or trust is not enough for the load shipper’s.
Kerin, welcome! I am glad you found us.
I am sorry that you were exposed to the vile teaching of Kyle Idleman, but very happy that you know that it is false doctrine.
Regarding Michael Youssef, he is false teacher of works for eternal life that should be avoided.
Pastor Cucuzza was willing to corespond with you? That’s great! There is at least one grace church that I know of here, maybe two. They are all somehow affiliated with The Duluth Bible Church. I would prefer a truly independent church without outside influence. I do appreciate Pastor Cucuzza’s way of sharing the gospel, it is very similar to Ralph Yankee Arnold’s. I’ve recently discovered Arnold and the wallet illustration.
I use the KJV quite a bit, but I don’t worship it. Paraphrases and dynamic equivalent translations need to be used judiciously with care. Gender neutral translations are suspect.
Firstly, I would like to thank you for all the work you put in to this wonderful ministry at Expreacherman.
I was attending our local baptist church a couple of years ago when the associate pastor encouraged me to attend a 6 week course on Kyle Idleman’s book, ” not a fan”,…being a new christian, I came away feeling loaded with guilt and wondering if I was truly saved. Thankfully the Holy Spirit reminded me of the unbelievable joy I felt when first I believed on Christ as my Savior…I never went back to that church…and the Lordship Salvation that was being peddled there.
I found your site not long after and feel fellowship from fellow believers who have been through similar experiences.
I would appreciate it if you could tell me if Leading the way, Dr Michael Youssef is a Lordship Salvation Pastor?
Many thanks once again. Your site is a real blessing from God for the many Christians like myself.
Kerin Kelly. On 19 Aug 2018 12:46 AM, “Notes From A Retired Preacher” wrote:
> johninnc posted: “By johninnc 2 John 1:11: For he that biddeth him God > speed is partaker of his evil deeds. We recently featured an article on the > upcoming “Harvest America” event, led by false teacher Greg Laurie. See > link below: Lordship Salvation: Greg Laurie’s Bit” >
I never liked soul winning. One verse in proverbs does not justify it. Where I come from, they called it witnessing. They never went door to door. They associated it with cults. I never know what to say. It always feels awkward. But when I am facing an internet LS comment, I know what to say. I don’t know why.
And if they are using the kjv, you are probably going to get romans roaded. I left a kjv church over that. Even if I hear Romans 10:13 quoted only once, in a clear presentation, it bothers me. Calling is a work. They can change the forest, but the lordship monkeys remain the same.
I agree that Tom’s gospel presentation is sound.
And, with any church, getting the gospel right is non-negotiable. The IFB churches seem to be “hit or miss.”
Shawn, Dr. Cucuzza gives the clearest gospel message that I have ever heard. In fact he is the one who got me saved. I can sympathize with you about finding a good church. It is not easy in this these days.
After I got saved on May 7, 2016 after emailing back and forth with Dr. Cucucca, the first thing I had to do was convince my wife that our church was teaching a false gospel. That took about 3 months., but eventually she agreed with me. She was working part time at the church so she had to resign her position which took a couple more months.
Then we started looking for a church that had a doctrinal statement that didn’t openly endorse a false gospel. We moved our family there for a while, but eventually we realized that some of the pastors (not all of them) were mixing works in with the salvation message. They were just a lot more subtle about it than the previous Lordship Salvation church. They were using an ESV – not the KJV….
Then I started searching only “Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches in my area that only use the KJV, does soul winning, and teaches a good salvation message that doesn’t teach a “repent of your sins to be saved gospel” or some other “grace plus works false gospel”. About 2 years later, we have found one that at least meets those 3 primary criteria that is close to our home.
It appears to me that if a church is using any other Bible version other than the KJV they quickly slide into error. And those who are teaching error are not getting their false teaching from the KJV but from commentaries, books, other false teachers, or other bible versions.
Don’t loose heart. Keep up the search.
Thanks so much for your insights.
Shawn, Calvary Chapel was never doctrinally right. They were always wrong. I started out in the mothership, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. Chuck Smith always taught that you had to have works to prove your salvation, and if you don’t live well enough, then you would lose your salvation. He never taught the true Gospel, and the “pastors” he trained (Greg Laurie being one of them) also never teach the true Gospel. Calvary Chapel is a hoax. They might say “we teach line by line” but Chuck Smith never taught line by line on a Sunday morning. It was the same boring topical message that you’ll hear anywhere. Teaching line by line is wonderful, but you wouldn’t find it in his place on any Sunday morning.
The one where I live is truly bizarre and I was hoping it was an anomaly. They have a coffee shop that I was told by the staff has a no theological discussion rule…I never went back it’s borderline cult-like…
So I’m not surprised. Look at the other movements like the Vineyard and Toronto blessing and now IHOP that all came out of that bad stream…
Shawn, we have had a lot of comments over the years regarding lack of doctrinal soundness in Calvary Chapel churches.
I have really become more convinced that a simple presentation of the gospel is becoming so rare, but it is so vital. I tried for so many years what I call the crying repentance gospel. 18 years ago I was exposed to free grace nonlordship dispensational teaching at a local Bible church that ended up closing because they brought in a Reformed pastor.
I never really found a solid church after that. I now have been out of church for years.
I thought Greg Laurie was Calvary Chapel and that they were known for good verse by verse expository Bible teaching…
Indeed, Holly, Trump does have believers praying for him. I’m one of them, as are several others here, I’d bet. We’re supposed to do that, aren’t we? ;^)
But I too am concerned about the “spiritual input” Trump is getting. False teachers began to cluster around Trump before the 2016 campaign began. One of the things I pray for is that–through it all–he hears and believes the Gospel. But at least the POTUS is getting some positive input about Israel for a change.
Of all the culprits listed in that Greg Laurie cheering section, two stood out to me:
1) Rick Warren. Anymore, it seems as though a Rick Warren endorsement guarantees that the recipient holds some seriously compromised core doctrine.
2) Chuck Swindoll. Of all the quotes listed in johninnc’s article, Swindoll’s strikes me as the most glibly vacuous. So all these attendees will have “the empty holes in their hearts” filled, huh? And with what? Some “fresh food for the hungry soul” he says. Doesn’t that sound so spiritual, and in a contemporary, non-traditional way? OooOOOooooo…
Yes, I’m being sarcastic. Sorry, but the “spirituality” of some of these people makes me sick. ;^P
Holly, I am sure he does.
Johninnc, I’m sure he has believers praying for him at least.
Shawn, I wonder if you’ve caught Pastor Cucuzza’s ‘Secure Forever’ series? They are also live streaming on FB for those who want to join there.
And when you go overseas, some of the presidents have fake pastors and false prophets as their spiritual advisors.
Holly, it is a shame that he can’t have better advisors. Some people probably hold these guys out as oracles of God instead of the deceivers that they are.
Shawn, keep using the Word. Stay away from paraphrases or dynamic equivalents (thought-by-thought translations). Where there may seem an area that is confusing, just ask questions and see if you can find other Scriptures to help clear it up. But always ask who is being spoken to, what is being addressed, etc. to help you understand context. Trust the Lord, pray as you spend time studying and do it for Him.
If we just take men’s words and see if we can find what they are saying backed up with Scripture (Acts 17:11), it becomes a little easier to discern if what they are saying is right or wrong (Heb 5:12-14). Trust God’s Word in your life to help you come to know the certainty of His Word of truth (Pr 22:17-21). You can trust Him.
Some of the backgrounds of some of these people are head shakers. But because most people won’t know who/what these people teach and believe, they’ll see some sort of great man and think he has the truth.
I want to just clarify what I thought was sad about the men surrounding Trump. It wasn’t a political reason, I was just thinking back to Nebuchadnezzar and the fact he had Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. And although I’m not going to judge the salvation of any of the advisors, I thought it sad he didn’t have any such faithful types.
It also kind of shows how one washes the other’s hands in these matters and they glorify each other all the way to the top. You brought up wares, the more they have a name for themselves, the more people flock to buy their stuff. May some hear the Word itself and seek God and His truth.
Jason, agree. There are Christians among all sorts of denominations, despite official denominational doctrine that may contradict the gospel.
And denominational background is not a reliable test of anything.
Amen, and thank you John.
Phil, agree. In addition, I want to keep the focus of ExPreacherman on the gospel, not politics.
Let me just say that putting Trump to some religious test, as whether he believes the right gospel or not, we may be going down the wrong road. It does not determine whether he is a good President or not.
Trump said he is a Presbyterian.
Shawn, there are far more false teachers out there than reliable ones.
I would recommend the following test for any interpretation of scripture:
1. Is it consistent with eternal life by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone?
2. Is it consistent with eternal security?
3. Is it consistent with assurance of eternal life, based on God’s promises alone (i.e., it is not internally-focused on changes in attitudes, behavior, etc.)?
If the answer to ALL three questions is “yes,” the interpretation may be correct. If the answer to any of the questions is “no,” then the interpretation cannot be correct.
I know I had previously recommended to you “The Gospel” booklet by Ron Shea. I would recommend that you read that booklet once a day for the next month.
Holly, yeah, politics is a popularity contest.
Not saying anything one way or the other about Trump, but sadly at least five of the ones that endorse Greg Laurie are/were also on Trump’s advisory board.
So much confusion about the gospel…
I’m just very unsure of what to believe and who to trust…
jason65, that is true from my remembrance of things in southern California, shuffling already professing Christians around from event to event. Every year it was the same thing with these harvest deals. Every church had to send people, and most of those that “come forward” are “recommitting their lives to Christ”, some after doing it many times before. Of course, one or more “committing of life to Christ” doesn’t save, since that’s works. My friend that used to work at these things would say that he could never actually find anyone at it that didn’t already make some kind of “Christian commitment” declaration in their lives before showing up.
Yeah, the Swindoll quote kind of drives that home. Everyone’s praising Jesus. No one is hearing the gospel.
I get the feeling that these crusades are preaching to the choir. Most attending are doing salvation over again for the umpteenth time. Pathetic. It is how I feel at invitations at church.
Lou, agree! Thanks for commenting.
The names who endorse essentially make up a Who’ Who of new evangelicalism.
Shane, I agree that none of these guys should be given a pass.
This is just me perhaps, but really only maybe two of those names are people themselves that are (usually?) clear on the Gospel. And even those two sold out long ago for widespread popularity in the cult of “evangelicalism”. The unending sea of false teachers always feels like a set-up to me. That, intentionally and per-meditatively, they’re all in the same club and they each know that they’re in the same club, and they promise to always support each other, endorse each other, invite each other to the same (expensive) conferences, and keep it in the family, so to speak. There are only two sides. Those with the false gospels and those with the true Gospel, and those with the false gospels count us as enemies to be snuffed out. Lest you think that’s not the case, just read the NAR doctrines by people like Rick Joyner who say they will go to war with the “dissenters” against this unity unity unity unity…