By johninnc
Romans 3:26: To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The more I think about what really keeps people from understanding the gospel, the more I am convinced that it is a problem of focus.
Once someone understands that he is lost, and helpless, then the full focus needs to be on Jesus – who He is, why He came, and how He has taken away the sins of the world.
Amytime the focus of our redemption is not squarely on Jesus, the message gets confused or altered.
The questions about how Christians should live are not relevant to an unbeliever. The questions about any expectation of commitment are not relevant to an unbeliever. Whether or not one wants to live the Christian life is not relevant to an unbeliever. Whether or not one wants to give up any sins is not relevant to an unbeliever.
What is relevant is this:
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Did He die for our sins (all of them, for everyone in the world – past, present, and future)? Did that include your sins – past, present, and future? Was He raised from the dead, proving that His payment was accepted?
The “what if I?” questions need to be turned back and met with “what DID Jesus do?”
Romans 4:25: Who was delivered for our offenses and raised for our justification.
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Following is a real-life example of a young man contending with highly-experienced purveyors of a false man-focused gospel. His questions are in italics and my answers in bold.
I have slightly modified some jargon, and edited for length.
Recently there have been several preacher guys on campus. They are no doubt LS. I asked one of them what they thought about free grace and I told him my beliefs and MANY other students seemed very interested in what I had to say. Of course he was prepared with rebuttals but I wanted to hear what his arguments were because the students are annoyed at these guys and want to hear the actual gospel. Here are some of the things he said and I wanted to know what you think about them because I feel like this would be a really good opportunity to tell people about free grace.
1. They claim that they believe you can only be saved by the blood of Christ, but you have to want to turn from your sins (their false definition of “repent”). They say that repenting from your sins means that when you have the desire to sin, you decide to not do it.
The Bible calls eternal life the gift of God (Romans 6:23). A gift means something freely given, without cost or obligation to the recipient.
If we had to agree to go give up anything to receive the gift of eternal life, it would no longer be a gift. It would be a trade. That is the key concept in all of this. Salvation is God’s gift to us through Jesus.
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The phrase “repent of your sins” never shows up in the King James Bible. Never.
“Repent”, when used in a salvation context, means to change your mind about what religious people tell you that you must do to be saved (such as turning from sins) and to trust that Jesus really did pay for all of your sins (past, present and future).
2. Every sin you commit comes from what is in your heart so if you are sinning you are not necessarily saved by believing that Jesus died for your sins.
Every sin does come from your heart. But, the Bible says whoever believes in Jesus as his Savior has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited (see John 5:24).
3. The reaction to 3:23 was that it all men HAVE sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but that a person who is truly saved will no longer sin.
A good question for them: “Do you still sin?”
4. What I gathered from them was we are saved by WANTING to be saved and the only way to WANT to be saved is to try to stop sinning.
You do not have to try to stop sinning to be saved.
Romans 4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
“Justify” means for God to declare someone “not guilty” of his sins, based on his faith in Christ. “Righteousness” means “sinless” – this is based on Christ’s righteousness imputed to you when you believe in Him as your Savior. It is not based on our righteousness in turning from sin or anything else.
The verse I cited above says God justifies (saves) ungodly people. The LSers are saying that you have to try to be godly (to be saved).
5. They talked about Matthew 21:31, Matthew 7:3, and the verse about plucking out your eye.
I’m not sure where they are going with Matthew 21:31 or Matthew 7:3. But, trust me – if none of these verses existed, they would find other verses to use to promote their false doctrine.
Regarding plucking out an eye – this is Matthew 18:9. No one has ever received eternal life by plucking out his eye. And, no one has been refused eternal life because he wouldn’t stop sinning (or even be willing to).
Romans 5:8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
What do you recommend I say to the people who want to listen because some people talked about it with me for a minute but I’m not prepared enough to have a good conversation. Also it would be completely pointless to try and argue with the “crazy preacher guys”. They are EXTREMELY well read.
The errors of these “extremely well read” people are no match for the Word of God.
Try this:
1. Everyone is a sinner
2. The penalty for sin is death (eternal spiritual separation from God)
3. One must be perfect to get into heaven. Not good. Not great. Perfect.
4. One cannot do anything of himself to obtain this perfection – this includes turning from sin, committing your life to Christ and so on. God offers eternal life as a gift – it’s not for sale or barter.
5. God provided a sin-bearer for us (The Lord Jesus Christ, God in the
flesh. He had no sin of his own, but he came to die for us, paying the full penalty for our sin. He was raised from the dead, proving that His payment was acceptable).
6. All we can do to receive everlasting life is to believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior.
7. Eternal life, once received by faith in Christ, can never be lost or forfeited, no matter what happens in our lives down the road.
What is there to do to receive eternal life? Simply BELIEVE that Jesus made that payment for your sin – for you.
Don’t let yourself get drawn into the snares of the LS guys. Proclaim the truth to people who will listen.
Not everyone will believe what you tell them. That’s not on you. Your job is to tell them the truth.
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
PhilR, you said:
“My prayers too Shane that you will stand by the word of truth, faith in the gospel that does not include our works.”
I agree with you in prayer, not just for Shane, but for all who fellowship here, that we may be wise as serpents, yet harmless as doves. May we all number our days, gaining that heart of wisdom hopefully. Time is short, and we see a muddied or false gospel every where we turn. Praying for you all to be strengthened in His might.
Holly, yes, you stated it very right.
John 6:47 and Shane – so true about they don’t want you to judge their doctrine, but they want to judge your fruits to see if you are REALLY saved.
Recently I re-posted an article on fruit inspection and it was funny that what one got out of it was that we were not to hang out with an idolater or railer or drunkard, adulterer, etc. He didn’t really catch what the article was really saying. So to him, 1 Corinthians 5 was what fruit inspection was vs. examining doctrine of false teachers. Of course we obey the Scriptures on judging behavior in another believer but only so far as withdrawing that they might be ashamed (assuming they want to continue in their folly).
Shane – Indeed. The people who throw out the “don’t judge” card already have an idol set up of a false teacher, and they can’t tolerate any opposition. Sadly, most people in Christendom (including saved people) seem to have this attitude of “rebuke is the new hate speech” when called out on false doctrine. Not even necessarily a false gospel, but even some other fundamental doctrine, like the Trinity, Eternal Hellfire, and so on. Such people have the Bible subject to them, instead of subjecting themselves to what the Word of God says.
PhilR, thank you for your prayers. 🙂 And yes that is a good point that the “don’t judge” card is pulled only on the person exposing doctrinal lies. Never on the person doing the lying.
My prayers too Shane that you will stand by the word of truth, faith in the gospel that does not include our works.
John 6:47, very good point.
When the “Judge not” Christians say “Judge not, lest ye be judged” (which is misquoted, btw), they REALLY mean “It’s okay for me to judge and write people off as unsaved because they don’t live the Christian life, but it’s not okay for you to call out my false gospel or the false gospel of my idols.”
Fruit inspection is judging. That, they fail to see. As my friend Paul Weringa says, more hate, more preaching.
Holly, thank you for the confirmation. Yes he is exactly as you described him. Groeschel is a false teacher, without doubt. I got into a few exchanges on facebook today with people that would say something like, “Harboring bitterness leads to hell”, and I would correct them, and then have five people gang up on me with the same old “easy believism” and “the devils believe and tremble”. Then I posted about these guys like Groeschel that have 30 satellite “churches” all around the world, pumping their false gospels to thousands of people, and a few came up to me and gave me the same old “judge not!”. People just love false gospels, and they love preachers of false gospels. But I will keep preaching 🙂
They think that their self-condemnation is so humble.
Shane, keep on speaking the truth in boldness.
Groeschel is a false teacher. He’s not sure simply believing in Christ makes them a Christian? (The simplicity in Christ comes to mind-2 Cor 11:3-4) and then he continues with the typical demon believes and aren’t saved as if it’s some sort of a contrast. He follows up how he can know he’s saved by what he is DOING (my life didn’t reflect it) vs. someone knowing that they’re saved, because they have believed God’s testimony of His Son, God’s Word is truth. Their words, their works are useless (as you know).
One true thing he said: “I don’t point my finger at others, only at myself.”
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:10-11
Thanks, John 6:47! 🙂
Shane – I will pray for him too. Some of the hardest people to get saved are those who have some type of experience that they’re relying on. Whether it’s a supposed vision from God like you mentioned, or speaking in tongues for the Pentecostal and Charismanic, or the “burning in the bosom” for the Mormon, or the various Marian apparitions in Catholicism. It’s hard for people to abandon experiences and stick to the Word of God as the ONLY authority for all matters of faith and practice.
Johninnc, thank you for your prayers! 🙂
Shane, I have prayed for you in ministering to people who have been taught false gospels, that they will listen to you and understand the difference between the gospel and it’s seemingly endless counterfeits.
I hope you all don’t mind me bringing this post back from the past. The reason is because I am about to start ministering in a part of the country that has the presence of a man named Craig Groeschel. I have listened to his messages to see where he’s at, so that I may minister to those that view him favorably. His messages are all extreme lordship salvation. The article that was quoted in this comment thread, included this commentary from Groeschel:
“Is first-line faith real Christianity? Is believing in Jesus enough? Although God is the only true judge, I’m not sure simply believing in Christ makes a person a Christian. Honestly, I’m tempted to say, “No, I sincerely don’t think it is real Christianity.” Even demons believe in Christ. I worry how many people might be deceived. Instead of truly living as followers of Christ, many lull themselves into a sense of false comfort. What if they’re really “cultural Christians,” false believers? I don’t point my finger at others, only at myself. For way too long, I’ve claimed a belief in God, but my life didn’t reflect it.”
This is obviously a false gospel that cannot save anyone. Even worse, it follows a statement from Groeschel where he claims that Jesus gave him a vision of “three lines” that must be crossed in terms of the Gospel. Of course, the Bible doesn’t teach “three lines” to accept the Gospel, and therefore, the supposed vision was not from God.
I bring this up because, I just want to thank everyone here for being vigilant to speak out about these things.
The world sure needs free grace churches planted everywhere.
Jackie – so many deceivers out there among us…
As born again Trusting in Christ jesus Alone eph 2:8-9 We have the privilege to collapse into the finished work of Jesus. We are under a higher law ” the Law of The Spirit” The law of the Spirit fulfills all that we are in Christ Jesus . We reign in Righteousness to reign is to be a king. reign as a king in what? In appropriating THE GIFT of righteousness .
sadly the gentleman pastor soul is plugged in upside down and backwards doctrinally . I see quotes like that and wonder if we our we reading the same bible ? but i know as well I was all a twisted up and wrestled with simple salvation for along time.
the simplicity and difficulty it is for a soul to see they can do nothing to be saved is the same difficulty a soul has to live the christian life.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death
Jackie, if this pastor is planning to get into heaven this way, he is sadly mistaken.
Here is a comment on righteousness from a lordship salvation pastor. This is one really drew my ire. He says that there are three different types of righteousness: by law, by faith in Christ (HIS righteousness), and personal righteousness that comes by living by faith. The third one is complete heresy. Here is the remark:
“Because we live by faith, the Holy Spirit transforms our lives and we become righteous people because we are following in the steps of Jesus by faith. And that’s the kind of righteousness that Paul is describing (ref. Phil 3:9). It’s spiritual transformation…Faith in the bible is intellectual acceptance plus personal commitment. It’s not just intellectual assent. So Paul says I want to know Christ and be found in Him as a righteous person, know Him by faith. That means we intellectually understand who Jesus is and we understand what it means to follow Him, to surrender our whole lives to Him, and to personally commit ourselves to that. We DO (notice the emphasis on “doing?”) it.
I’m sorry, but the only righteousness I know of and is acceptable to God alone is that of Jesus Christ’s. My flesh remains wicked until the day I die or raptured to meet Jesus in the air. I loathe how these wolves attack faith to include works.
Excellent – thank you! I’m using on Tuesday night!
Holly, I made the change to their false definition of “repent”.
Another great resource John for my Tuesday study. I will reference you and expreacherman.com
Under #1 above, you said //They claim that they believe you can only be saved by the blood of Christ, but you have to want to turn from your sins (repent).//
My only suggestion is to change (repent), to (their definition of repent). Just a thought. They think the equation is repent = turn from sin.
Yes I agree, they heard the Word, and believed, the Holy Spirit fell on them. I used that passage somewhere today 🙂 …
Holly, yep. And, there is no mention of Cornelius having made an audible confession or calling on the Lord prior to receiving the Holy Spirit.
No, audible confession couldn’t be, or it’d be curses for those Pharisees who were believers but weren’t confessing Him for fear of the Jews.
Penelope, I agree that audible confession is not a requirement for receiving eternal life.
And, I think “confess” may be similar to “agree” in certain cases.
I also agree with what you said about not forsaking the assembly. Going and warming a pew at some Calvin-fest once a week cannot be what that verse means.
I also appreciate the clear, simple, succinct explanation on Lord vs. Savior. He IS Lord to all of us, regardless of whether we recognize His position or not; but we HAVE to make Him our Savior. This fits well with His return, and how EVERY knee WILL bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord of all. Obviously this forced confession does not mean they all will be saved!
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but speaking of ‘confess’, doesn’t that mean to agree? So it’s closely related to ‘repent’. I won’t say synonymous and interchangeable, because not every time one changes their mind (repent) do they agree (confess). Anyway, I was thinking how confession needs to be distinguished as agree since it wouldn’t make sense that everyone HAS to audibly speak to be saved. The ability to audibly speak is not a requirement for salvation. At the end of the age, EVERYONE will confess (agree) that, yes, He is Lord, and everyone knew it all along. But without Him being them having believed in Him as Savior, they will agree and still be punished forever.
When I confess my sins to the Lord, I am agreeing (repenting, changing my mind) that He is right and my sins are wrong. I agree that I’m always missing the mark.
About Hebrews 10:25 and not forsaking the fellowship – I heartily agree that that doesn’t necessarily mean a corporate church service. Whenever I am with other lke-minded believers, be it shopping, enjoying a meal together, etc., we are fellowshipping. Bible study, prayer time, a conversation with another believer IS what we are not to forsake – we are to be with like-minded individuals. We are to be sharpening each other, to be in company with others that can continue to edify us in Christ and His word. It always seems to me that the conversation turns spiritually on its own, anyway.
TLINN – those verses out of John 6 where the people asked what works they must do to be saved and what God’s will is are some of my favorites. It just puts all these seeming contradictions to rest, and actually gives the definition of ‘problem’ words and phrases – work required, God’s will, eternal security. That passage is just essential for the gospel straight from Jesus’ own mouth. If there was more to it, why wouldn’t He have expounded on it right there?! If you can’t take Jesus at His own word, then you have a problem indeed. There is no way God was going to only give part of the gospel and leave everyone’s salvation in limbo until someone else could come along and finish where He left off. “It is finished” – He paid the price for us, and told us everything we need to know to be saved.
KJB1611,
not in this country. However, excatholics for Christ are “street oriented” working in the UK.
they are on youtube and have their own website.
I have watched few of the youtube vidoes. You can see his growth over the “time span” of the videos. His earlier ones (2009) could leave one scratching their head a little bit, but the clarity of the gospel improve over that time span.
Speaking of street preachers, I was just wondering if anyone on here knew of any good street preachers? Almost all of them I’ve seen are hardcore lordship salvation. The only ones I’ve ever met that weren’t were ones I received a tract from in person. But on youtube LS completely took over. Does anyone happen to know of any non-LS street ministries? Thanks everyone.
tlinn – I think that those verses you shared explain it well. Some have just hardened their hearts to all the things God has shown them. The love of a child. A loyal pet. A beautiful sunrise or sunset. We know that creation tells of Him all over the earth. We know He draws all men, His prophecies and miracles have shown His glory, but those who saw it with their own eyes, refused to believe. In fact they wanted to murder the one who Jesus raised up, Lazarus, just for BEING one of Jesus’ miracles. They cast the blind man out of the temple, but I love his interaction with them in John 9. These people do not want to believe. They are like Pharaoh and have hardened their own heart. God just finished what He knew they would do. Yet Jesus wept over Jerusalem. God’s love is to all, and God’s judgment will be upon all who have rejected His Son….They will not believe. They resist the Spirit. They will not come. They will not hear, they will not learn, they will not listen, they physically stop up their ears to not hear the Holy Spirit….(Acts 7)
Glad to have you here ❤ In Christ's love, God bless your week.
tlinn, those are great passages.
Why is it so hard? It just goes against our fleshly nature. And, the gospel message is corrupted in so many subtle and not so subtle ways.
I want to thank all of you for the warm welcomes 🙂 I remember well the scriptures that woke me up to the errors of works salvation teachings i had been subjected to all my young life:
1) “For they (israel) being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God ”
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth”
Chp 10 V 4 romans
And over and over it seems the Lord was leading me to the gospels where Jesus made it abundantly clear that ” this is the will of God….. that ye believe in him (Jesus ) whom God hath sent”. Jesus said this after they asked him ” Master…what must we DO to work the works of God\ inherit eternal life.
Simple belief, simple faith. Jesus did sll the work. His perfect work- and all we need do is believe. I echo what many here are questioning about ls\works gospel people..what are they thinking? Why is it so hard for them to simply believe\ trust in Jesus and rejoice in his good news, in his gospel?
Adam7777, don’t you and your wife just love the baby and the bathwater comment along with the chew the meat and spit out the bones? I tell them they have forgotten the warning of a little leaven…
I sigh with you, we tell them, and they say things like, “you’re never going to find a perfect church . I’d really like to find a church that started with a clear gospel. We had a Bible study with just a few people and we met in a church that used to have another teacher in the room and so far we’ve gotten away with being there. We have built up from FB four more people in that Bible study who come from all over, and last week a fifth one came. That doesn’t include me.
I do my best to teach a women’s Bible study online, via a free conference call service. It’s a blessing to fellowship daily on FB too. It’s for all the FB friends over the years that cannot find a place to fellowship either. Some of my friends are listening to Tom or Yankee’s sermons online as their ‘church’ with their husband or children. But it is far safer to be out of ‘church’ than it is to be in a compromising and apostate church.
I really need to spell check before I hit post.
Adam777, I have come to the conclusion that “not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together” is simply saying “do not stop meeting with other believers for mutual edification”.
It can be one or two believers, in your own home. No pulpit, row seating or guy with a big flash suit and tie required.
I believe the institution would love you to believe that assembling with saints must be in a building wrongly called a church, with a hierarchy of salaried servants to ‘oversee’.
Next time someone tells you not to forsake assembling with other believers, you can feel free to point out that they didn’t start building Christian temples until well after the Apostles were in the grave.
I’m all for meeting with other believers. But our meetings aren’t validated by being in a 1,000,000 purpose built facility.
Just my thoughts.
Rest easy, our ultimate fellowship is with Him. and thankfully he’s sorted out a temple. 😉
Hey Bryan!
Thanks for the confirmation and for your prayers my brother. I in turn will also pray for you and your family to have success in North Georgia. Seems to me that there are many of us who are desperately, desperately longing for a local church to be part of that teaches the Bible accurately and in all it’s fullness and exposition.
I find it rather curious that most people in mainstream Christianity will utilize Hebrews 10:25 “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together……”, to condemn us for our refusal to go along, to get along, for our Saviour and His truth’s sake. Talk about straining out a gnat, but swallowing a camel…
Adam777,
Couldn’t agree more, my family and I are experience the same situtation with the surrounding churhes here in North Georgia, I’ll be praying for you as you search for a new church home.
Bryan.
Hi Holly!
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. The Scripture makes clear that He IS everyone’s Lord. John 1 bears that out with great clarity. The subtle word change though seems to confuse many, and when it comes to salvation has tremendous implications. “IS vs Make”. It goes from a Gospel that can save, to one that can’t. Cunningly, the devil often uses the guise of “mere semantics” to veil the difference between the truth and the error.
Galatians 5:9 “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”.
It is truthfully amazing to me how many “Christians” nowadays are just going along with the false doctrine flow being spouted off without ever really reasoning it out in their minds, or thinking critically through what they are being taught. Interpretation and exegesis of Scripture in any sense seems to be particularly relative in many people’s minds, and that is, without one being essentially able to absolutely see, reconcile, or understand with any clarity the Bible as a whole, and the salvation God offers us by His Precious Son, without works.
To qualify, just the other day, I ran into an acquaintance of mine who started to attend the church my wife and I left just under a year ago. We left the respective church in that case because of false doctrine leaching in……lordship and calvinistic teachings alike. When this particular acquaintance of mine canvassed me as to where we were attending now, I felt that I would be honestly remiss if I didn’t tell him why we left, and the fact that we aren’t attending any church in the area as none teach the Bible accurately. When I put this to him, and was further unapologetic about calling what they were teaching at the church false doctrine, he responded by advising me that he thought “it was a very Biblical church”, and not to “throw the baby out with the bath water”. To this, I kindly retorted that I might as well attend a catholic church seeing as how the doctrines would be similar, and that what he was concluding was essentially a form of relativism, and the whole reason Paul wrote the Book of Galatians. At this, my acquaintance friend further responded by stating a typical loadship comment of “we must try and be like Christ”, AND that we’re saved by faith (???), BUT “doesn’t James say that faith without works is dead?”. At this, I asked him to what end are we “trying to be like Christ”?; a question it seems in which he would be unable to elaborate on in any greater Biblical sense and how it necessarily applied to the truth, and the eternal salvation of men/women’s souls. I also further offered the acquaintance a Biblical and contextual explanation of the James passage he cited, and at which time he stopped corresponding with me…
Oh how frustrating these times are. But of course we see the parallel between what Paul the apostle experienced with false doctrine, “super apostles”, and generally unteachable spirits in his day, playing out still in modern Christendom. To put it candidly, and in the spirit of the season, it appears in my mind to be Groundhog Day, everyday, when it comes to debating with most people in mainstream Christendom.
Adam7777,
I almost missed your wonderful comment, glad I scrolled up… Funny thing, it really occurred to me in something Johninnc said a couple years ago, He already is their Lord, they NEED Him as their Savior.
When I was helping a Jehovah’s witness friend through the Scripture, showing her so she could understand that it is God who is Savior, and they needed to believe that Jesus is indeed God, it really came through to me that in all these religions that identify as Christians, they make Jesus their Lord, (in their own mind) but they have not believed upon Him as their Savior, somehow they are partially their own Savior by their works before, during or afterwards.
They use the infamous ‘even demons believe and tremble’, yes, they do, Jesus is Lord and they know it. They may believe Jesus is Lord too. But they CANNOT believe upon Him as their Savior because they are not offered salvation. Many of these Lordship people have not believed He is Savior, not totally, and they cannot be a co-redeemer so therefore not saved.
They have added without knowing maybe, but they ‘do’ all these things and use works as a meter to prove whether they are saved. And the sad part? I NEVER hear them confessing I am saved BECAUSE I believed on who He is, and His work on the cross for me period… not without adding BUT, or IF THEN, or qualifying ‘real’ believers, or ‘truly’ saved etc.
What you said, “Whether or not any given person gives Him that place in their mind or life is immaterial. His position and office remains the same and is not vacated or found to waiver because of people’s often changing or fleeting opinions.” I can just say Amen, He IS Lord. I loved your reference to Daniel, thankfully the Lord saved me and didn’t finish me off. I made many promises, I thank the Lord there is forgiveness for even that. (Seems it started in grade school when I was in the principal’s office) 🙂
There is a similar verse to Matt 5 in James 5, that I use with my children, even with promising something, so I think that’s a good thing to bring up.
But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
It is a frightening thing to think on these people who are still seeking to establish their own righteousness, and as you said, will be there justifying themselves by their own works. We can only keep speaking the truth in love and pray the blinders will be removed by the glorious gospel of Christ.
tlinn
Welcome! Always happy to have another come and grow in His grace with us. To be commended to the Word of His grace (Acts 20:32) instead of recommended to some man’s quotes or teachings or new books 🙂
In Jesus Christ eternally (as our dear friend Jack would say).
Hey Tlinn,
glad to meetcha!
comment more.
Preston
I found the following quote on a blog at the Free Grace Alliance. It was called “Lines in the sand?” and dated December 7, 2010. It was a review of an article by Craig Groeschel, with which the reviewer (John Correia) did not fully agree.
However, Correia made the following strange statement (I have put in bold those parts which I found odd):
“Also, from a pastoral perspective we would have to agree with Groeschel on some capacity. Someone who seeks God only for the blessing He brings is an enigma. Indeed, if they honestly and truly place faith alone in Christ alone, we know that the testimony of Scripture is clear that they are a child of God and the recipient of eternal life. (John 1:12). However, we can’t tell the content of someone’s heart any more than our Reformed brothers and sisters can. External appearances can be deceiving; those who showcase a life of holiness and good deeds may not be Christians at all (Matthew 7:21-23), and those who do not show external fruits of regeneration may indeed be regenerate (1 Corinthians 3:15). The opposite is also true, which means that if someone says they have trusted in Christ but shows no sensitivity to Him or desire to grow in Him we cannot be sure of their eternal status.”
My comments: I know many people who came to Christ out of fear of hell. Why is this an enigma? I wonder if he has ever sung “Amazing Grace”?
It’s noble of Correia to concede that such an “enigma” could be saved. Notice, though, that Correia makes this concession, only after adding two qualifiers to faith – “honestly” and “truly.” He seems almost begrudging in his acknowledgement.
Also, should one who has believed in Jesus look to his “sensitivity to Him” or “desire to grow in Him” for assurance of salvation?
tlinn, welcome!
We look forward to your comments.
Hi everyone! Ive been reading from this site
For about a year. All of you have really helped me
overcome the ls teaching i was subjected to as a teen.
I just decided ill start replying from time to time and stop lurking lol
God bless you all!
Your sister in Jesus Christ
Please consider listening to the sermon from Tom Cucuzza entitled “Go and Sin No More.” It is linked below. Following are some pertinent excerpts:
Minutes 23:46 – 25:05:
To use our forgiveness as a license to go back into sin, while that is possible, it is absolutely contrary to the will of God.
Do we get that? While it is possible, it is contrary to the will of God.
“Wait a minute Pastor! Are you saying that once you’re saved, you can sin, and sin, and sin, and you’ll still go to heaven?”
Yes.
“Why?”
Because, how many sins did Jesus pay for? He paid for all of them, right?
When you trust Him as Savior, they payment He made is good on your behalf. And that payment covers not only the sins you’ve done to this point, it covers all the sins ‘till the day you die.
You might say: “Well, I can’t accept that.”
Well, then you’re not saved.
“What do you mean?”
You’re not saved. That means you’re not going to heaven when you die.
“Well, how can you say that?”
Because you’re rejecting the payment Jesus made for your sins. And that is the only way you’ll get to heaven is through the payment He made for your sins. Because you’re performance, or your works, will not save you. Because, you’re a sinner, just like I am. You’re guilty, just like I am. And, if you die in that condition, you are condemned. As a matter of fact, the Bible says you’re condemned already.
“Why?”
Because, you have not believed in the name of the Son of God.
http://northlandchurch.com/content.cfm?id=213&download_id=50
John, excellent piece you wrote. Thank you.
I firmly believe that this drama is part of being transformed by the renewing of our minds, because this LS stuff is so deeply ingrained in the flesh. EVERYONE knows they fall short of the glory of GOD, and Satan does everything he can to obscure the simple, free gift of GOD in CHRIST JESUS.
Even after we truly just BELIEVE, the enemy fires his fiery darts at us and we daren’t be passive but grab that shield of faith and stand securely behind it. WORKS is the default human position, so fixing our eyes on Jesus is the answer, magnifying and glorying in his FINISHED, ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE!!!
Hi Alice!
No problem, anytime! I’m glad the commentary resonated with you sister. Unfortunately, the explanation and insight has regretfully in part come from many, many battles with calvinists, lordshippers, and “religious” folk alike.
To my sister HOLLYSGARCIA:
YOU SAID: The good news is about His Saviorhood (if you will). He is Lord of all, believers, non-believers, demons.
I SAY: Amen. HE and HIS imputed righteousness is our only hope. It is because He IS Lord of all creation that He is able to be the world’s Saviour.
It had previously occurred to me that our religious friends (l.ser’s calvinists, etc) seem to be unwilling to make that above definitive distinction in their minds, and further appropriately apply it to their understanding of the truth of eternal salvation, and what it takes to realize it. The fact is is that Jesus IS THE LORD OF ALL….period. He is the Lord of unbelievers, atheists, agnostics, the religious but unsaved (l.s’s, and calvinists, etc), demons, cultists, angels, believers, and ALL of creation. Whether or not any given person gives Him that place in their mind or life is immaterial. His position and office remains the same and is not vacated or found to waiver because of people’s often changing or fleeting opinions.
The reality of it is is that l.ser’s, calvinists, and the Christian “religious” alike try to essentially “make him Lord” by their actions of religion and self-righteousness – to their eternal detriment. Regretfully, what they do when they try to barter with the King by “promising Him” this and that, “repenting of sin”, “surrendering all” (make Him Lord) for their salvation is inevitably insulting Him and His finished work. That is because the Bible (as we know and will admit) makes abundantly clear that no amount of religion, pathetic good works, or culture could ever equate to the infinite value of Christ’s precious saving Blood, or elevate Him appropriately to the level, position, and glory that He already holds – The Lord of ALL. They in fact try to bring Him down to their sinful humanity by “making Him Lord” with their sad, sad religiosity.
It’s only when one soberly and candidly looks at their admitted sinful state and what he/she has (or doesn’t have) to offer the Lord that they realize that they have been “weighed, measured, and found wanting”, and that their best efforts are “as filthy rags” before His justified standard of perfection. Thus when one does and hears the Gospel, it invariably finds them coming to His mercy seat where they trust ALONE in His righteous and death payment to save them. Not promising Him anything, no attempts to induce Him, no contract negotiations – just trusting Him to do what they have no hope of ever doing by any supposed religious action…..that is, save themselves.
It also previously occurred to me that what these people are doing in essence by “promising” Him something, “turning from sin”, and/or “surrendering all to Christ” for their salvation is making an “oath” before the Living God. Crucially, we see the “oath” explained out and what it represents to Him in Numbers 30. And sadly further, unfortunate examples of what the implications of making hasty “oaths” (Levitical and non alike) looks like in Judges 11 (Jephthah’s daughter), and Mark 6 (Herod’s oath in front of guests —> resultant John’s beheading). Seems to me that when it comes to these folks making their oaths nowadays to the Lord in hopes of an exchange for salvation, it’s hidden driving force reduced to it’s simplest form is always pride. For the calvinists, l.ser’s, it comes from their desperate desire to say they are good enough or have something to offer God, and moreover, to be outwardly perceived as “righteous” before men.
A careful study of Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:34-37 perhaps illustrates why we are not to make “oaths” at any point. Ie. “Swear not at all……” (v.34),
WHY? because “whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil” (v.37).
It’s a curious thing to contemplate that perhaps our Holy Lord will hold these folks who refuse to submit to Christ’s righteous to save them, to the “oaths” they made while trying to barter with Him for their salvation when they are judged (if they do not repent and trust in Christ before they die) at the Great White Throne……a fact that inevitably will find them having to accept that they have been weighed, measured, and found wanting…..a realization and admission that will precede their eternal damnation.
Oh how we need to be lovingly contending with such as these and desperately praying for such lost, lost, lost people.
Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus……..alone.
Johninnc – If apart from Christ as believers we can do nothing, what makes this person think that these non-believers who have never known them can have the right desires, thoughts, etc.? The good news is about His Saviorhood (if you will). He is Lord of all, believers, non-believers, demons.
He is Savior, we are not. We are sinners, He died on the cross for our sin. We did not. He was buried and rose again. Do you believe upon Him as your Savior? Do you believe who He is and what He did for us?
They are the ones who sadly will never have assurance, if they ever truly believed…And their gospel is accursed and will save no one.
Preston – excellent! That was something I shared recently in the John study for women I teach online. Exactly right, well written, and makes it clearer what the issue is. Also the word is opposite ante of foreknowledge (prognosis) in Greek, from progignōskein, to foreknow. Not that we need to know the Greek, but it is a second witness to the truth. Metanoia/metanoeo is used in early Greek (secular) as afterknowledge. I can’t explain it all, but it is as an antonym.
We know the explanation change mind/change thinking, and some of the old Greek usage for these words, were exactly that, sometimes a change of mind for the bad, as Clement of Alexandria brought up Plutarch the Greek Historian (so did Ron Shea of clear gospel) and the two criminals that were going to kill a child, repented, and then repented again and decided to kill the child after all.
If people are just but willing to even look at context, if repent = repent from sin, then in the verse you gave in Luke, the message is: Repent from sin to be saved. We know that is not the message of our salvation.
Holly, this kind of thing was exactly why I wrote the article.
It puts the focus right back on us instead of on Christ. What if I didn’t want power for living? What if I didn’t really want help with living my life? What if I? what if I?, what if I?…
The combination of the objects of such introspection is infinite, and Satan loves for us to dwell on these things. It takes our eyes off of Christ.
For someone who doesn’t know the Lord, this can be blinding.
For someone who is saved, it is nothing but a source of doubt.
Good day,
this is what “appears” to me today.
First, we all know that repent means a “change of thought”. This is evident in Luke 3.
LUKE – 13:3 – Jesus said – I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish
The religious would say, “SEE you must repent (turn from your sins)”.What does the bible say? GO BACK ONE VERSE and GO ONE VERSE FORWARD. You will SEE the problem.
– LUKE 13:2 – And Jesus answering said unto them, SUPPOSE YE that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
– Luke 13:4 – 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, THINK YE that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
We CLEARLY see that they were THINKING (suppose ye) they were righteous because they were NOT sinners like the one whom were killed. They needed to SUPPOSE OR THINK something different. They needed to “change their minds”. (repent).
It appears to me that most professing Christians fall into THIS category. Those that believe they must “turn from their sins” see themselves as not being “sinners above all others”. Jesus said to THEM, unless ye repent (change you thinking) ye shall likewise perish.
my two cents.
Nathan and John – more Loadship. I think of the gospel sometimes as a camel with a hump. But whether in front of the hump, on top or behind the hump — back loaded, the camel still bears a burden that was not put there by the Lord. But always put there by religious Pharisees. Paul found himself doing the very things he did not want to do, so that would sure make you question if you really were desiring to be delivered from sin, if you were still sinning.
Sounds pretty much like Holiness Wesleyan movement, (Lordship) or Pentecostal lordship style speech. We should constantly affirm with each other that we SHOULD be careful to maintain good works, for this is good/beneficial for men (Titus 3:8 pp). But we need to constantly affirm this, for evil still dwells in our flesh. When our flesh is raised and we are given a new body, the corruptible will be raised incorruptible.
BeholdaSon — dealing with Calvinists, or at least a lot of them, is indeed difficult. I remind myself, that I know for a fact He desires all men to be saved even though they reject that truth 🙂 So possibility is they are not yet saved, considering their gospel of pre-regeneration being the power of God unto salvation (in their dogma). I try to get them to share what they would share as a gospel. Few will. Those that do and simply share 1 Cor 15:3-4, I ask why they leave out their double-predestination, isn’t that dishonest? After all if it’s a lottery ticket, shouldn’t they know the odds?
When they pull out the length of time as a believer, the school they attended, the institutes they’ve read, the church fathers they’ve studied, their understanding of church history, how well-read they are (as you mentioned), or any other such commendation of themselves — I always think of this passage.
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. 2 Cor 10:12
Johninnc,
You quoted another saying from their unpublished comment, “The desire to be turned from sin”
I have seen this type of thing in a group I was invited to. Thank God I had a strange sense about it and did not attend.
There is all this emphasis on coming forth with your sins and then there can be a stirring up all this emotion through public confession and gaining help from the people around you to help you finally turn from your sins and be whole again. You would get a sense of feeling better about yourself for overcoming sin. They also tell you that you can become a gift to others. There is much emphasis on drudging up what causes you to sin and the histories related to your specific sin. Can be very psychologically probing. Much focus is on the individual.
Seems like a toned down mourners seat in a more controlled setting. For those unfamiliar with the mourners seat, this technique goes back to the 1700’s where the minister would target sinners by having them sit in the front of the church on a bench or pew where you could confess your sins and receive counsel later on. During the course of the sermon “salvation was looming over these peoples heads.” This has been employed by many ministers throughout American history.
Johniinc – I don’t find that unusual they use their own words and a lack of Scripture, (or Scripture in context) when someone has their own ideas of what you must do to be saved.
When we believe, we are born again, buried with Him in baptism, planted in likeness of His death (That is when we are ‘freed from sin), risen with Him in life so that we SHOULD walk in newness of life. We are dead to sin and SHOULDN’T live in it. We also SHOULD not serve sin. (Obviously all things believers can do — see the following chapter 7)
Yet we are FREED from sin, so what are we freed from? It is the penalty of sin because Romans 6:8-9 says, Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. (That is freedom from the penalty of sin).
Vs. 10-11 reminds us to reckon ourselves dead unto sin, but alive THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. (that is to be reminded we are no longer under the law, the law of sin and death has no more hold over us, we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus–Rom 8).
But vs. 12-13 make it very apparent believers can allow sin to reign, we can obey it’s lusts, we can yield our members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, hence the exhortation to believers:
“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Verse 14 reminds us once again, there is no penalty, no dominion over us regarding sin. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
The summation of chapter 6 tells us what we are delivered from when we believe — the penalty of sin.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Many tell us how we must think, feel, act, etc. in order to be saved.
Jesus tells us the condition over and over. He tells us to believe on Him and we currently possess or own eternal life.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47
Praise God for Romans 3 and 4!
I am reading Romans now and this morning I read 3 and 4 over my delicious Chamomile tea (with honey)
I said to my husband… Romans 4 is the biggest GRACE smack.
muhahaha
I felt quite smug.
I agree Jane.
Some of the most difficult (I’m being nice) people I know are Calvinists.
Sam.
When you start hearing, “I’ve studied heaps and read lots of books”… you just know it’s not going anywhere good.
I am kind of wondering how those who cannot do anything good in God’s sight, those sinners without strength, the ungodly, can have a desire to be delivered from sin? How can an ungodly person do something godly? Sounds like he’s reviving the law, and when that happens, sin revives. Is this person in the Holiness movement?
What are we being saved from, sin’s penalty or sin? We aren’t delivered from sin in our flesh until the corruptible is raised incorruptible. Seems like this person might benefit from Tom Cucuzza’s Understanding the two natures.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&exactverse=&keyword=Dr._Thomas_M._Cucuzza&keyworddesc=Dr.+Thomas+M.+Cucuzza&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=two+nature&x=0&y=0
Holly, no scripture with this particular comment. There were a couple others, which I chose not to publish.
This is the old LS standard: “Jesus didn’t come to save us in our sins, He came to save us from our sins.”
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an unbeliever wanting to have the chain of sin removed from his life. However, it is not a gospel contingency. It is irrelevant.
John – did the person give any Scripture to back up his claims of what we must want to do? I’m working on John 11, and thinking on Martha, she sure didn’t make it apparent she wanted delivered from her sins, but that she believed what Jesus said.
Jesus said to her, “I AM the RESURRECTION and the LIFE. He who BELIEVES IN ME, though he may die, yet shall he live.
26 And whoever lives and BELIEVES IN ME shall never die. Do you BELIEVE this?”
>>>>>(And recognize that you need delivered from your sin)? Not there in Scripture.
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I BELIEVE that You are the Christ, the SON OF GOD, who is to come into the world.”
So Martha believes she will NEVER DIE, because she simply believes upon Jesus based on who He is — God come in the flesh (Lord,kyrios), the Christ, the Son of God. And she believes upon Him, and knows she shall NEVER DIE. This is the gospel revealed at this point, she may not have known yet all that was yet to transpire, but she knew He was her Savior.
Martha doesn’t stop to figure out if her works or behavior add up or not and prove whether or not she can know she is ‘really’ saved.
Hi Adam, you nailed it….!!! Well written and articulated.
You could be to Johninnc as what Johninnc has been to Jack Weaver.
We really appreciated your thoughts on LS.
Thank you so much to both of you, you guys explain things so well and so easy to understand.
HERESY ALERT:
We received the following comment from someone that we generally don’t publish. His thesis seems to be that one must “want to be freed from his sin” in order to be saved. The desire to be turned from sin in order to be saved seems like a new twist on being willing to turn from sin, putting Christ on the throne of your life, etc. A believer does not have to desire, or be willing to be turned from his sin in order to keep salvation, so why would this be a requirement for a non-believer.
Again, this points the focus away from Christ and back to the person. It is a man-focused gospel.
I would suggest that you have missed the point completely. It is not that sinners must trade in their sins for salvation. The more basic issue concerns what salvation is. When the Scriptures speak of eternal life they are not speaking quantatively but qualitatively. Salvation is deliverance from sin itself, not merely salvation from sin’s penalty. It is not that we must rid ourselves of sin before God will acccept us. It is that we, by the grace of God, want to be freed from our sins, but understand that we cannot break sins chains by ourselves. When we come to Jesus we bring our sins with us so that he might save us from them.
I really enjoyed your article as well as reading all the comments posted. I also believe Calvinism and LS are heresies and the thing I dislike most about Calvinism is the Calvinist, at least the few I know, are very arrogant, hard headed and do not have a teachable spirit. They know it all and surprise, surprise!!! They are ALL of the elect!! O.o
You know in Luke 18 when Jesus said, “Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
That’s when He spoke the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican’s prayer. It was regarding those that trusted in themselves that they were righteous…AND despised others.
Religionists are Pharisees who are ignorant of God’s righteousness. They are still trying to establish their own and have not submitted themselves to His righteousness (Rom 10:3-4). We know that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those of us who have believed, yet they continue to try to put us back under the law.
John MacArthur for an example said you had to confess your sins in order to be saved (that was one of the steps) and if you didn’t, you were ‘going to hell’. Well MacArthur, (Mr. Scholar) doesn’t even know that is a work of the law (see Numbers 5:7).
These men are wise in their own eyes. They do not trust in the simplicity of the gospel, nor do they trust in the POWER of the Gospel (Rom 1:16-17, 1 Cor 1:18), but they do trust in their own wisdom of words or excellency of speech. Christ and HIM crucified (1 Cor 2:1-5). HIS cross, not theirs (Col 2:14), His work on the cross for us (1 Cor 15:3-4), not our work for Him (Rom 4:4-6; 11:6, Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9).
Adam, it was a good read!
Hey John!
Knowing all the crazy heretical ideas that are being birthed in the supposed church nowadays, it could mean anything!!! haha
Although I understand that you are not genuinely canvassing for my opinion in the matter, I will nevertheless sound off just to remove any ambiguity from the mind’s of those looking on. haha
Candidly, my suspicion first off would be perhaps that the “closet presbyterian” pastor is in fact the youth pastor at that church…..haha. I may be wrong in this, but it seems that at the very least that that man is having a certain amount of influence on what the youth are being taught as supposed sound doctrine, even if on the peripheral. Second, that as a result of this suspected misleading, now a little lamb in the church is manifesting and/or exhibiting the “fruits of calvinism” —–> looking to a behaviour change as proof of his or other’s eternal life. Perhaps it could also be that this particular youth has been turned onto the likes of a Francis Chan, or some other radical heretic, and that this is an isolated incident, but my guess is that it’s coming from the mentioned party who no doubt would be looking on in approval as he hears his seedy doctrine being spouted off from the position of power.
Crucially its seems that this particular youth is lacking a proper understanding of the two natures, ie. and a mis-exegesis of Romans 7 is being demonstrated. But of course we all know that looking to our behaviour as proof of our standing before God is a slippery slope and a proverbial hamster wheel that is difficult to get off of. All sorts of questions arise out of this flawed thinking: how much change is necessary, how quick, what if it dissipates, what if there is no immediate change, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc????? It also finds those who subscribe to this ideology being harshly judgmental of others in the church as a means to somehow elevate their supposed salvation soundness or security in their minds. What is amazing to me though is that many forget the fact that just as they have the choice to accept or Christ (save and except calvinists, they are forced to believe), so we have the choice to obey or disobey the leading of the Holy Spirit once we’re saved by His grace.
As you indicated, there is no doubt that someone is not saved by “saying they believe”, but calvinists (as we all know) are notorious for trying to qualify how much faith is necessary to be saved. Head faith vs. heart faith, etc, etc, etc. However, we see Christ in the Gospel of Mark comparing the quality of saving faith to that of a child’s. Therefore, if a child can understand the Gospel and believe and thus saved, it follows then that saving faith must be just simple, pure, and unadulterated in it’s form and fashion.
“God said it, I believe it, that settles it”.
Seems that your friend is unfortunately started to see the reality of Galatians 5:9 –> “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”. It’s a difficult thing to stand by and watch as the false doctrine starts to leech in, but as we all know it’s happening more and more everyday.
Anyway, hope you enjoyed my rant….haha.
Come Lord Jesus! Amen.
Adam, I was talking to a friend of mine today who seems clear on grace, but goes to a Lutheran church with at least one “closet Presbyterian” pastor.
He told me that last Sunday, the youth performed the service. He said the young man delivering the message declared that someone isn’t saved just by saying they believe (by the way, I think we would all agree with that), but that there has to be a change.
What does that even mean?
Hey Mary,
I empathize with your frustration on all points. The reality of it is is that most l.s’ers/calvinists alike do not read the entire Bible, and/or they do not read a reliable version, and/or they are notorious for violating one of the first rules of hermeneutics: ” the context drives the meaning behind the respective passage or Scripture being cited “.
I also am stunned as to how much of so called contemporary Christendom is steeped in this demonic theology. It’s honestly like everyone has been brainwashed, or like they have been subjected to a “great delusion”. I have had numerous conversations with people who are proponents of this persuasion and I have found that they literally do not listen to a word you have to say. That is, despite the constant utilization of Scripture that clearly refutes their perverse theology. It’s scary…
Most of these people are too so enamored with reading books about the Bible by the countless wolf in sheep’s clothing authors, that when you challenge many of them on their thinking, interpretation, and conclusions, they’ll give you a regurgitated opinion they have partially or fully absorbed and then desperately defend it as though it were the actual Word of God. I know one thing, someone is making money…
I am also tired of hearing all the “buzz words or terminology” from their religion. Ie. “repent of yours sins, be a follower of Christ, put Christ on the throne of your life, surrender all to Christ, become a Christ follower, be a radical follower and/or disciple, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc”…….frankly, it’s nauseating and I can’t hardly take it anymore.
I recently heard a sermon by Dr. Tom Cucuzza in which he cited the candid fact that those who accuse us of “greasy grace, easy believism, etc”, and who are therefore inherently relying on their faithfulness to save them, have impending judgement coming to them from the Lord. Truly, truly that is a terrifying reality that I believe not even language can accurately encapsulate. Can you just imagine it? Standing before the Great I AM, the Creator of the Heavens and Earth, the only Wise God and King, and telling Him, ” No, believing on what Your Son did on the cross wasn’t enough for me…His blood wasn’t enough to wash me….His death payment wasn’t enough……no, that’s too simple, I finished the job by being religious —-> see! “.
Ultimately, we really need to be praying for these poor people. Either that they will come to truly trust in Christ alone to save them, and that those who are actually saved will no longer be bewitched by the evil one and come out of the devilish pack and redeem the time that is left for them…
Sam, thanks for the encouragement.
As I was thinking about this issue I thought that if you were to ask most Christians if you had to keep the law and recieve Christ as Savior to be saved most would answer correctly that “no, keeping the law cant save in any way”. But what they don’t seem to understand is that when you tell someone they have to be willing to stop sinning ie. repent of their sins in order to be saved what you are telling them is that they have to keep the law to get saved. Some will try and say that there is the ceremonial law and the moral law but the truth is the law is the law and Christ came and perfectly fullfilled the law and by placing our trust in Him we are given credit for keeping the whole law perfectly. We are declared righteous by God. We dont have a righteousness derived from the law but a righteousness through FAITH. That this is so clearly taught in Scripture is plain. It is sad that most and I do mean most of what is passed off as the Gospel is not the Gospel but is a mixture of works and faith. It is no better then saying we have to help God save us.
Johninnc Thanks for keeping this blog going.We will all miss Jack thats for sure.I read this blog almost daily appreciate all you do here thanks
Mary I dont think to many churches have turned from the catholic church as most are still teaching works for salvation.They wouldnt admit that but its only one small step for them to join the roman church.My opinion it will happen after the rapture.
John,
It’s true that eternal life salvation is either a GRACE GIFT or TRANSACTIONAL TRADE. It can’t be both per Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 11:6. Per Romans 6:23, etc., it is, praise God, a grace gift.
Yes everyone is so religious, they do need to repent of their religion. I cannot believe how LS everyone is. Its pandemic, everyone you ask including pastors especially the Pentecostal pastors to define what repentance is, its turn from your sin, they claim we pick the verses we want to hold up our grace position. I grapple with this on a daily basis, still so scarred from coming out from Lordship Salvation.
Because the whole of so called Christendom thinks this way, they make you feel like we are preaching heresy and damnable doctrines, its hard to stand on this. I can understand what John the Baptist went through while he was in prison.
Surely we must be at the end of the apostasy and the lords return is just around the corner, we are all so tired of the conflicts. Its so frightening to think all these churchgoers are possibly not going to make it to heaven.
Yes it is Satan who says “Hath god really”, is the free grace position really the true biblical gospel, no one thinks this way only a few of you do out there. I was witnessing to a strong catholic guy in his early 50’s, he told me the catholic church has all the fullness and we are missing out, he was angry that all the protestants broke away from Catholic church and we all need to come back.
Satan has so deceived the whole world, may the lord grant us strength and courage to keep going and not get too discouraged. Thank god we won’t be in this world forever.
May we all keep the eternal perspective, so we don’t get so bogged down in the trials we are all going through. Even so Come Lord Jesus come.
Hello everyone,
With so many abundantly clear passages in Scripture evidencing that Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ Jesus’ blood alone, it becomes clear very quickly where this heretical doctrine of lordship salvation, calvinism, et al comes from in the beginning…
Genesis 3:1: “Yea, hath God said…….”
A continued disbelief and rejection in what Christ has done for us on our behalf crucially proves I feel where this lordship salvation doctrine comes –> straight out of the depths of hell. Period.
There is no peace in their religion or the bondage they propagate. But true salvation imparted by the precious Lamb gives the sinner surpassing peace. After all, He is the Prince of Peace. Amen.
Levi, good point. Did He take away almost all of the sins of the world? Or all?
Hello Everyone
The LSer have a lack of understanding of the nature of God. The area that they fail to understand the most is the holiest of God. We sin against a holy God as you point out ( we are sinner). Yet they “believe” in their works. As if God had miss something or was unable to finish the work.
Levi
Johninnc I think we occasionally get discouraged when witnessing to a blind guide (lordshipper) I have one that just called me last week and wants to meet with me to show me where Im off the rails,I have talked to this man twice already but he said he has done a lot of study and read some books so he thinks he can now show me where Im wrong.It will be a matter of if he will believe the plain clear verses of scripture otherwise I wont be able to help him.Thanks to what Ive learned here I can defend the Gospel guite well so Im actually looking forward to find out what will come out of this.Nathan thats a good one I agree they should repent of their religion.
Nathan, me too. I wanted to be saved, but was blinded to how.
Religion makes sense to man, so it is an easy sell.
I was thinking this the other day what the LSer’s are actually trying to do. They want Christ to be their model for a better life here on earth and maybe heaven will be there waiting for their efforts. They want to here well done good and faithful servant, but in their mind that equates to living good life on earth. But living a good life on earth doesn’t save.
They are confused into thinking that the spirit within has not really been fully generated at the point of salvation/belief if it hasn’t proved somehow through certain evidences of living a better life. That’s the reason for all the whooping up of evidences of salvation. All the big evidence shows they put on, not only to prove to other people but because they sadly are trying to prove something to themselves as well. I can speak to this as I was in the very throws of this mentality once upon a time. I have since repented of religion.
The truth is that Christ has no interest in fixing this world or our flesh for the better. He wants to replace it all with a new world and a new body. Our new spirit is awaiting it’s new body along with all of creation which is also groaning for His coming too.
Instead of the LS statements of faith saying “repent of your sins” it should actually say “repent of your religion and come to the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission or [payment] for your sins.”
Another sound, biblical, post John. I think the main thing we should always remember is that it is not up to us on how others respond when we proclaim the true gospel. I have been guilty at times finding myself discourage when most of the people seems apathetic or wants to rebutle every thing I say with the all familiar words of “that’s true but…” or “Yes, but….” .
God bless,
Bryan
Lisa, I agree.
We often hear things like “I’m trying” – still doesn’t help save anyone.
I think it’s a matter of the word “sin”, I don’t think sin is viewed for what it is, missing the mark. Since it is sinless in heaven does any Christian really believe they are even coming close to how they will be in heaven. Can someone please correct me on this cause I can’t see it any other way.
Abidingly, Lisa