by Johninnc
Galatians 1:8: But though we, or angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
It is extremely common in the world of professing Christendom (also known as “churchianity”) to qualify the words “Christian” and “believer” with words like “true” and “real.”
When the Apostle Paul wrote “we, or an angel from heaven,” he meant anyone, including himself. He affirms this in the very next sentence:
Galatians 1:9: As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
The “any man” could include: your mother, your father, your best friend, your pastor, the televangelist, the 19th century “prince of preachers,” the Pope, Billy Graham, the author of “Christian” books, your church, your denomination, your elder – anyone! It could even be someone who has previously presented the gospel to you faithfully.
Now, back to “true believers.” Following are some things that “true believers” may believe:
- I believe that you have to turn from your sins to receive eternal life
- I believe that you have to be water baptized to receive eternal life
- I believe there are mortal sins that, if unconfessed, would result in a Christian losing eternal life
- I believe you have to manifest speaking in tongues to prove you have eternal life
- I believe I must surrender my life to Jesus to receive eternal life
- I believe I must publicly confess Christ to receive eternal life
- I believe that faith is the gift of God
- I believe Christians must persevere in good works and obedience to the Ten Commandments to prove they have eternal life
- I believe God chooses who will believe in Jesus
- I believe you have to have “heart faith,” not just “intellectual assent” to receive eternal life
- I believe that you have to want to grow in Christ in order to have eternal life
- I believe you have to be sorry for your sins to receive eternal life
While we can’t know whether someone holding these beliefs has eternal life, we do know that these beliefs are not compatible with the truth of the gospel.
When we encounter someone who has an honest question about the seemingly endless assaults on the gospel, we will try to teach them from God’s word why these assaults are not true.
But, we will not allow the “true believers” – those who desperately cling to these types of false beliefs despite having been shown the truth from God’s word – to use this site as a forum to promote their false doctrine
Pator Tom Cucuzza put it this way:
We cannot give false teachers a place – and you’ll notice what he said – not even for an hour. Now, that’s not being mean-spirited, that’s just standing our ground.
The question, then, is not whether or not someone is a “true believer.” The question is, does the person believe the truth.
If you would like to know the truth about how to receive eternal life, click here: The Gospel
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Brian, thanks for commenting.
I am pleased that you do not believe all of the examples of some of the more common beliefs that undermine the gospel. Having said that, John MacArthur teaches Lordship “salvation” and is not someone I would recommend listening to for spiritual enlightenment.
You said something interesting: I answered only a few so called true believer beliefs but in saying this I accept a few of them that are good, ie you have to turn from your sins to be saved. Of coarse only with God living in a person are these things possible but true believers do not want to go on sinning once we have received Christ. We love him and are his handiwork and belong to him.
My comment: The sole example you gave is that you have to turn from your sins to be saved. Then, you said that only with God living in a person are these things possible.
If you include turning from sins to be saved as part of “these things,” you have reached an impossible impasse. God only comes to live in a person at the time a person receives eternal life (becomes eternally saved). If one had to turn from sin to become saved, then God living inside a person wouldn’t enable that, since God wouldn’t yet be living inside a person who hadn’t become saved. Your confusion is being fostered by MacArthur’s false teaching that regeneration occurs before belief in Christ. The truth is that regeneration and the attendant indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs upon belief in Christ.
If the roster of true believers only includes those who do not want to go on sinning, then one would have to assess his desire to go on sinning in order to know whether or not he had eternal life. And, the scriptural admonition to believers to not let sin reign in their mortal bodies would be unnecessary.
Growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is possible only for those who have received eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The problem with MacArthur and others who teach Lordship “salvation” is that they insist that life change and good works are inevitable, and thereby invite inspecting one’s works for evidence of eternal life. In so doing, they are implicitly teaching a false gospel of works.
Your last sentence was very telling: The Gospel will cost you everything.
My comment: No, the gospel will not cost me anything. The Bible directly, and repeatedly, refers to eternal life as a gift and even accentuates it by calling it a free gift at least three times (see Romans 5). Something can not both be a gift, yet cost the recipient something. This is another error that is being reinforced by your listening to John MacArthur.
Brian, you seem sincere in your beliefs and in your desire to know Christ. We do not judge you, as you said. We have no way of knowing whether you have ever believed in Christ alone as your Savior. Based on your comments, I do think that you have some degree of confusion regarding the gospel message, and I am concerned that your insistence on listening to John MacArthur and other Lordship “salvation” teachers will only further confuse you.
I would invite you to read the following clear gospel explanation:
Click to access English-Display-Pkg-2014.pdf
I listen to John MacArthur’s teachings and your true believer list here is not all what we believe. We are not just to be sorry for our sin but repent of and turn away from. I know the blood of Jesus cleanse me. Next we don’t teach you have to want to grow in Christ to be saved. Ephesians 2:8,9. Growing we do in response to Holy Spirits conviction and teachings. Staying in the word, personal prayer time, fellowship of the saints, and Bible studies. Next the ten commandments are a list of commands we have all broke but growing in Christ we learn to detest sin and seek holiness. Ten commandments were our school master to show us we could never keep in our own strength. I answered only a few so called true believer beliefs but in saying this I accept a few of them that are good, ie you have to turn from your sins to be saved. Of coarse only with God living in a person are these things possible but true believers do not want to go on sinning once we have received Christ. We love him and are his handiwork and belong to him.
You judge yourself but you are not my judge. John MacArthur is a wonderful teacher and so is Steve Lawson who teaches at Grace too.
The Gospel will cost you everything.
Well then there’s hope for them yet. I suppose if Calvinists truly applied the false belief of predisination (not to be confused with Biblical predisination, which human free will plays a solid part in) to their lives completely it’d be a miracle for them to make it through a single day with getting hurt in some way or another.
God predestined that person to get hit by a car, Brad said in jest…
Brad, Calvinists have to go through a lot of mental gymnastics and suspend common sense to deny free will. I saw a quote the other day that even people who believe that God predestines everything look both ways before crossing the street.
Hey Mary. If I could correct you on one thing; we aren’t experiencing apostasy >beyond< Biblical prophecy and never will. It is exactly what it should be, in the sense of what God prophesied to us it would be. I say "should" not to condone apostasy in any way.
But besides my nitpicking, I get the jist of what you said. The woods are full of 'em.
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
1 John 2:22.
John MacArthur and so many other false teachers, by God's own standard, are antichrists. We should call them what God calls them, at the very least to see their reaction and likely rejection of a Biblical label made just for them :p
We need to take the Truth right to these false churches and teachers. I am 100% certain that God has given us every type of sword, metaphorically, we will ever need in order to combat false teachings of any sort. Sure, feelings will be hurt at times, emotions will run high with some while they hear the Truth for perhaps the very first time, but to quote someone (name isn't necessary): "Facts don't care about your feelings".
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
Matthew 10:16.
Satan's cunning tactics to spread his lies we should understand and know, so we can catch it more easily whenever it shows up, thus being able to handle it appropriately and productively with scripture. One of Satan's preferred tactics (it seems) besides lying outright, is to employ doublethink/speak – to mix Truth and lies together in a single basket, causing confusion in the minds of so many and corrupting the Truth in the minds of many. Then the lazyness or pride of the sinful flesh could step in and convince the confused person to not worry about it, to just sit down and be quiet, to assume that the person(s) teaching them are, themselves, correct. Then over time, the person's heart becomes darkened so much to the Truth that they begin defending and advocating for blatant contradictions, that they have lost the capacity to see themselves. Like when an antichrist says: "Salvation is free, but it will cost you" with a straight face.
"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."
James 1:8.
ALL his ways. The Bible, being a book of absolutes, is declaring that someone who embraces contradictive beliefs/views internally, whether knowingly or not, don't have stability in their lives. A good example is a person who lives a double life, or people with "split personalities". Neither of those examples demonstrate a stable person. It's a good verse, one of my favorites, it says so much while consisting of so little. Like Romans 4:5.
It's funny, in a way, that one single scripture can tear down an entire false doctrine swiftly, soundly and decisively. It is the stubborn inclines (that pesky sin nature) of humans that is the dynamic factor here, do they choose to hear or to remain blind? God gave us free will for a reason and regarding the false doctrine of faith being the gift (Calvinism mainly) for example, I ask: why would God suspend our free will for the task of trusting Christ alone for salvation, but let us keep it in every other matter of our life?
If it was according to God's will (and it isn't) to suspend a person's free will regarding faith in Christ, then why not permanently suspend our will to commit any and all sin? That certainly would result in a humanity that ALWAYS does His will, all the time, which would be pleasing to Him of course. Instead of course, He gives us a choice, we always remain the captains of our ships for all choices we make in our lives. So therefore we can still choose to sin. That isn't God's fault, it is ours. Friendly reminder that the "bad guys" in the Bible, besides Satan and his army of retired archangels, is humanity and by our own choosing. The "good guy" is God. This Biblical truth is important for anyone stuck in a false sense of self-righteousness.
One of the inevitable end results of the Calvinism doctrine is causing people to think they don't have free will, even at ALL in some cases. That certainly would be an odd mindset to have, especially given all the choices they make through their days. I guess they just don't take credit for any of them, God becomes the puppeteer and they the puppets, sort of like those people who believe all the good works they do aren't done by them, but done by the Holy Spirit. It is like a mentality of avoiding responsibility for their own choices/actions, which reaks of the sin nature. Of course, conveniently, when they do a bad work suddenly it is all them and all their fault. ALL of our works are imperfect in God's sight anyways, even with our strongest efforts, it all falls short of His standard of perfection:
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Isaiah 64:6.
"Filthy rags" is just a colorful way to describe imperfection, you know, as opposed to a clean rag. Switch out "filthy rags" with something like "unwashed car" and the meaning remains the same (not that you have to do such a thing :p). Interesting sidenote is that this verse comes from the Old Testament, which Jews believe is God's Word (while they reject the New Testament as being not). Yet in Judaism they believe very openly in works for salvation. I wonder how they interpret Isaiah 64:6, not to mention Genesis 15:6. I suppose just one more example of a single Bible verse taking down an entire false group (Judaism the religion, not the ethnicity).
Mary, I have prayed for Yankee Arnold.
Mary, thanks for the warning. Ecumenical meets LS.
Please keep Pastor Ralph Arnold Yankee in prayer.
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John Macarthur has a conference coming in 2019 called proclaim, he has hooked up with Rick Warren, why are we not surprised, the false teachers are all coming together, birds of a feather flock together. We are getting deeper into the Apostasy that was predicted in the scriptures.
Kate, you can’t read because you get confused by those things? Or it’s difficult to read for another reason?
We do grow by learning about things of Him. Pray and maybe if you can’t read well on your own, spend time listening to Pastor Cucuzza’s series.
Have you heard the Secure Forever Series?
I remember when I was new to Expreacherman, and Kate was one of the people who welcomed me here. Recovering from lordship was like taking the red pill. Everything was affected.
Kate, I am praying for you.
Thanks for all the prayer. And thanks for all the kind words and patience.
I really do appreciate it. More than any of you can know.
And I understand why the rules are in place and would never ask anyone to break them.
I watched Dr. Yankee video that was linked. It helped. I also started another one called, “Growing in Grace”.
I want to grow in grace and walk in the spirit but I don’t know how I can do those things if I can’t read the word. This is vexing.
I am sorry I keep bringing it up. I won’t again.
I know we aren’t supposed to hammer over and over on the same topics.
Thanks for reading. And i will keep reading here, and learning what i can.
You guys are the closest thing I have to a church family.
Kate.
Thanks Jim for your comment and Kate as well, yes we just have to accept that we the remnant are on a very lonely road,I have to confess at times I do get envious of their large groups at times and all the fun and activities and friendships they have in church, but most of them are probably on the broad road to destruction, I’m sure there are the confused christians in the mix.
Keep you in prayer Kate, we could hook up, but i do have to accept Ex preachermans policy.
God Bless.
I know a few people from this community in my area, but they can’t seem to find a suitable time for me.
Mary,
My advice is for those of you who understand grace to separate from those who don’t. Evangelize from your small group of believers or from the outside. One person at a time if needed. But make sure you all grow and encourage one another.
Sad to hear about Graham going there. He, like his father before him, messes up and confuses the gospel. People will flock to that kind of thing but learn nothing worthwhile in the end.
Jim F
Kate, my prayers also that you will find someone near you to fellowship with.
1 Cor 6:11 reminds us that we believers have been washed and justified from the sins that condemn the unbeliever listed in 1 Cor 6:9 and 10. There is no condemnation or loss of the kingdom for the saved.
Kate, this passage in Gal., is contrasting the two natures, that every believer has. We still have the first birth, which is capable of everything listed there, but positionally has been crucified. (Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me).
A verse that explains this is in (1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption)
Our first birth is going to die and be buried (unless the rapture happens first) but will be raised again incorruptible. Our second birth is perfect, cannot sin, cannot die. When our flesh dies, its the the new birth that will inherit eternal life. Hope this helps. Here is a link to a Yankee Arnold video which explains the two natures so clearly:
Kate, I’m praying for you as well.
Remember to keep in mind the following three absolute truths when reading scripture:
1. Eternal life is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
2. The moment someone believes in Jesus as Savior, that person possesss NOW eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited. No exceptions.
3. Assurance of eternal life should be based solely on God’s promise, and never on how a person is performing, exhibiting change, or anything else.
Any interpretation of scripture that meets all three conditions may be correct.
If an interpretation violates any of these conditions, it cannot be correct.
Also, avoid people who teach anything that violates any of these conditions. They will only confuse you. If you can’t tell whether an interpretation is consistent with grace, it probably isn’t.
I understand the sentiment.
I long for someone that I could learn with since reading causes confusion but there isn’t anyone near me. I feel alone.
I did read the pet passages again ( Thanks, Johninnc). It did help to calm my anxiousness.
It’s disheartening to not have like-minded believers close enough to fellowship.
I guess it is what it is.
I keep you all in my prayers.
Kate
Jason, I saw a tract a few weeks ago that said you had to “mourn yourself” to receive eternal life. People add all kinds of twists.
I don’t think there is a sound church in any country besides the USA, and there are less than a dozen even here. Ron Shea lists four churches in foreign countries. Nigeria is the ground zero of fake pastors, but it’s everywhere. The Truth Channel had a video called, “why you must not go to church, especially in Nigeria”. But he seems just as confused about the gospel, since he thinks it is about surrendering. And he is still somewhat prophecy oriented, as he is prophesying about the next president. Daddy Freeze seems to understand grace, but I don’t know him well enough to endorse. I wish I could talk to Shea more, but he is busy.
Mary, I have prayed that you will not be disheartened.
There is a lot of deception out there. All we can do is look for opportunities and preach the truth of God’s word.
How this false gospel of Lordship Salvation breaks my heart, as Jack Weaver used to say the woods are full of them, the devil has used man in succeeding to infiltrate the churches with this false gospel, that in Australia there are no churches to go to. We have Franklin Graham coming in the next couple of weeks. They are advertising his crusade all over the radio stations secular and false christian stations(very ecumenical). Turn from yr sin but its not by works he said in his interview. There goes that double speak, one pastor said, Oh what an amazing paradox, excuse my sarcasm but oh what an amazing contradiction, the devil has it wired up so well and people fall for it. Its all a Mystery?
Our little group we have is at a loss as to know, do we stay in some of the lordship salvation churches or bible studies to evangelise or do you evangelise from the outside, I personally can’t, I went to a bible study the other night and mentioned John Macarthur and I was shut down that was Calvanistic and Lordship, they didn;t want to listen. I suppose we can plant seeds then get out.
Feeling very grieved, sick of all the deception, I don’t have the power to deliver these people from their deception. I can see why satan gets people under doctrines of demons as its very hard to come out of error, not impossible but it takes a miracle.
They don’t understand the simplicity of the gospel and they are ashamed of it. Sad and disheartening.
Kate, if one could lose eternal life, it wouldn’t be eternal. God promises eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited to anyone who has believed in Jesus as Savior.
Galatians is a letter, written by the Apostle Paul, to a group of believers who had become bewitched by legalists.
Legalism is of the flesh, and not of the Spirit. There is no fleshly focus that will result in fruit of the Spirit.
The works of the flesh that Paul is describing in Galatians are similar to those in the list that we see in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. But, Galatians is even more encompassing – it includes “and such like.” I can’t think of any Christian who never does anything wrong. So, this can not mean that these things cause one to lose eternal life or that they prove that someone is not a Christian. Remember, God’s standard is perfection, and one only receives perfect righteousness by believing in Jesus, who is perfectly righteous.
All Christians have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them at the moment of belief (see Romans 4:24), and all of the sins in “the lists” (past, present, and future) have been forgiven.
In contrast to Christians who can walk in the Spirit, are non-Christians who do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, and are therefore not able to walk in the Spirit.
You might like to read the discussions of these verses in the attached link:
https://expreacherman.com/2014/06/01/some-lordship-salvationists-pet-passages-explained/#_edn24
Now, consider John 5:24: Verily, Verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
This verse makes it clear that one doesn’t have to sit and grade his performance for assurance of eternal life. Nor can one lose something eternal.
As we read God’s word, it is essential that we remember that God is incapable of lying or contradicting Himself.
Therefore, any interpretation of God’s word that conditions our assurance of eternal life on our performance cannot be true.
Hey everyone,
I’m trying to understand what this means.
Galatians 5:16-26 “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Surface reading is causing me confusion.
I don’t know how to reconcile this in mind.
I’ve avoided reading the word because these types of things cause serious confusion and bring those nagging doubts that my Salvation isn’t secure. I just need some clarification.
Thanks,
Kate
William, I am praying for Michael that somehow he might spend some time on the gospel verses, and the ones that speak to who He is in Christ. Maybe you could print him out a list of passages that might assure Him of His place in Christ? Re-introduce the simplicity that is in Christ? Praying.
Sometimes men like Hyles are so rigid in their rules they become lawgivers of their own. They have all these rules and regulations and dress codes, and while everyone should be modest, the detail these men go into is unseemly and shows where their mind is focused. Besides being an adulterer, Hyles was extreme and abusive too as sadly many of these types are. Even with his deacons, he’d prove how they would do anything he said, he would make them come down front and he’d have them sit down and stand up to his command. The man on Jesus is Savior was indicted for child molestation. Evidently their ‘rules’ and ‘regulations’ and touch not, taste not, hand not, didn’t work for them.
Gail Riplinger is also to be marked and avoided for many reasons. Not just for the way she lies about Scripture, what she says is or is not in there, and manipulates her audience. People just are unwilling to prove all things by His Word when they find some say something that they like and agree with, they make them the go-to source for the truth.
Just a quick note to William for Micheal.
William I believe Micheal my be suffering from a form of OCD known as Scrupliocity. I have suffered with this from about Micheal’s age (I’m now in my upper 50’s).
At 14 years old he desperately needs a trained
counsellor to help him deal with these thoughts. OCD is a cycle of fear then guilt (obcession then compulsion). Miceal needs help understanding this cycle and how to deal with his fears.
God bless (been there),
John
Hickman, NE
Holly, Thanks for the info on Steven Anderson. He sounds like a person with a lot of hate in his heart. I always thought he was legit in his doctrine, but now I know he’s not and is to be marked and avoided.
Anderson also teaches that Jesus burned in hell for our sins.
Refundamental Joe has been exposing Jack Hyles heresies that I never knew about.
*Paul suffered vicariously for our sanctification.
*jesus did not pay it all
*God is helpless without man
Hyles was truly WOF. There, I said it.
William, Steven Anderson is a railer and is not of the right nature to be an elder in the church. He is local, and is the pastor who called his ‘flock’ to pray for the assassination of Obama. He is supposedly free grace, but preaches double inspiration of the KJV and gets really ridiculous on the striving about words to no profit (such as his famous ‘pisseth against a wall’ sermon on real men don’t sit down EVER).
As Johninnc mentioned, Anderson calls the pre-trib rapture heresy. He is similar to the Westborough Baptists in his hatred towards homosexuals etc. He is not worthy to be pastor material, but then again most today are not.
I was once discussing the unpardonable sin with my friend Pastor Paul Weringa in the Youtube comments. He had this to say:
“…the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost….but they directed their blasphemy to Jesus who the Holy Spirit was working in Him.
Mar 3:28-30
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Anyone with a rational understanding will clearly see that, WHENEVER THE WORK OF GOD is blasphemed, the blasphemy is directed to the Holy spirit. Because this 3 work in union. None works as an isolated entity”
I did not agree with some things he said but the part I quoted was helpful to me. I struggle with the same thoughts. It helps me to see that though they are directed at the Holy Spirit, because the devil puts them there to torment me, they are not against the Holy Spirit for the purpose of this judgement. I also agree with the remark that the three work in union. I hope that helps William’s friend. The less I worry, the less the thoughts occur.
The reprobate doctrine, along with romans road and LS, is one of Satan’s favorite weapons. That helmet of salvation is so essential.
I could see nothing wrong with Rob’s Ironside quote, because the cross was mentioned by other terms.
Hi guys, would stay away from Robert Breaker, he is a hyperdispensationalist He does say a lot of good things, but I would still stay away from his teachings, I came across this little sermonette from JackSmack77, i think its timely see what you think.
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Jack does preach the correct gospel. Does satan disguise some of his ministers in the Free Grace camp?????????
John, Great point! If Old Testament salvation and Tribulation salvation were by “faith + works”, then that would give those people reason to boast because their efforts were involved in it. Also, the apostle Paul would not have quoted Genesis 15:6 in Romans 4:2-6 and Galatians 3:6 if Old Testament salvation was different from church age salvation. Robert Breaker also had the audacity to post a sermon falsely claiming that Millennium salvation is by works also.
William, if someone teaches that homosexuals cannot be saved, or that homosexuals definitively do not have eternal life, they are denying the gospel. If Anderson takes either of those positions, then he is denying the gospel.
Anderson is also extremely vitriolic in a number of things, including being vehemently opposed to the pre-trib rapture.
As to people who teach grace plus works in different dispensations, I disagree completely. And, I will not allow the teaching of eternal life by grace plus works in any dispensation to be promoted at ExPreacherman.
Jesus is the Savior of the world. Not helper – Savior. Teaching eternal life by grace plus works undermines that fact.
There is only one heaven, in which there will be no boasting. Teaching eternal life by grace plus works undermines that fact.
Thanks John for your prayers for this young man. Don’t tell me that Steven Anderson is a Lordship Salvationist masquerading as a Free Grace pastor. These weird quirks in these teachers really trouble me. He certainly opposes Calvinism/Lordship Salvation in his sermons or is that just a facade?
On YouTube, there are 3 speakers who appear to be Free Grace and on the same page with us in our beliefs, namely Gene Kim, Robert Breaker, and Kevin Thompson. They all strongly oppose Calvinism/Lordship Salvation, BUT the thing that bothers me about them is that they all teach that eternal security/once saved always saved ONLY applies in the church age, but not in the Old Testament and Tribulation time periods.
Gene Kim maintains that Saul lost his salvation since God rejected him as king and that Samson lost his salvation and had to ask for it back – Judges 16:28.and that King David almost lost his salvation and had to ask for it back – Psalm 51:11 and its all based on the fact that Old Testament saints were not sealed by the Holy Spirit. They also maintain that Tribulation saints are not sealed by the Holy Spirit.
When I listen to their sermons, what I hear from them is that Old Testament salvation and Tribulation salvation is by “faith + works” which is Lordship Salvation and that it is only “faith alone” apart from works in the church age.
I’d like your two cents on this.
William, still praying for Michael.
Anderson’s views are a denial of the gospel. They more than offset anything correct that he might have to say.
John, Please continue to pray for Michael. He just texted me and told me he’s hospitalized. He’s being really overwhelmed by those intrusive thoughts telling him that he’s not saved and that he’s a “reprobate”. He said he is very traumatized by Steven Anderson’s teaching that homosexuals cannot be saved.
I told him to forget about Steven Anderson. Anderson may be correct on certain things, but he’s definitely incorrect in his false teaching regarding gay and lesbian people.
It appears that his anxiety and intrusive thoughts have intensified after I shared with him assuring him that he’s not reprobate and can be saved and the fact that we’re praying for him. Satan is going full blast tormenting this 14 year old boy.
William, I have prayed again for Michael – that he would focus on Christ.
Please continue to pray for Michael. He just texted me and said that he is having intense intrusive thoughts being pushed into his mind that are telling him to “reject the Holy Spirit” and to “refuse salvation”. This is definitely a spiritual battle that is tormenting him. He said it all started once he became a believer in eternal security/once saved always saved.
Initially, I thought that maybe he or his family members might have been involved in occultic activities like ouija boards, seances, tarot cards, or witchcraft which will no doubt open up doors rendering a person susceptible to Satanic oppression or possession, but he said no.
Rob, if a person believes in Jesus, that means that he believes that Jesus paid the full price for our sins. Jesus’ resurrection proves that He conquered sin and death, and that His payment was perfectly acceptable to God. The gospel includes His death for our sins, which is included in the quote.
I have a question here. Can a person be saved who simply looks at the Resurrection of Christ? As I understand, the Resurrection shows that sin has been put away, atoned for. I have a book by H.A. Ironside that suggests just that. He says to a person who is unsure that he has “accepted Christ. Ironside responds,
“The great thing to see is that God has accepted Christ. He took our sins upon Himself, died to make propitiation for them. But God raised Him from the dead and has taken Him up to glory. God has accepted Christ in token of His perfect satisfaction in His work. Believing this, the soul enters into peace. I simply rest in Gods thoughts about His son.”
Can a person rest there and be saved? I ask because in the above quote it’s not a resting in the Cross, but the Resurrection. Of course though, the Cross is included in that, maybe in a roundabout way.
Jason, it is God’s will that all people will become believers. It also God’s will that believers not let sin reign in their mortal bodies(Romans 6:12)and that all believers will be transformed by a renewing of their minds(Romans 12:2).
But, as you pointed out, neither giving up sins, nor being transformed in this lifetime are required to receive eternal life, and neither giving up sins nor being transformed are necessary to establish that one has eternal life.
What a tragic example of the damage of this false teaching. I am forced to conclude that Jesus saves us in our sin. He accepts us as we are and does not require us to leave transformed as a condition for eternal life. I pray that this individual is or gets saved. If he is transformed, that is even better.
William, I have prayed for the young man – that if he knows Jesus as his Savior he will grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus, and if not, that he would hear and understand the gospel that he might believe and be saved.
Dear Brothers and Sisters in the faith,
Please pray for a 14 year old boy named “Michael” who is struggling with homosexual temptations. He is genuinely seeking God despite his problem and lately has been suicidal. I’ve been doing the best I can praying for him and giving him Scriptural support. He fears that he may not be saved because of hearing false teachings that homosexuals are “reprobate” and “cannot be saved” based upon a perversion of Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and Galatians 5:19-21.
He also suffers from OCD. I referred him to a ministry called “New Hope Ministries” led by a Christian couple, Frank and Anita Worthen, whose focus is to help people struggling with homosexuality and point them to Christ. Frank is a former homosexual who started up this ministry.
Please pray for Michael.
Lea Mac, whom I mentioned, is a white, female, nonsabbatarian, black hebrew israelite. What a strange concoction.
Yes Jason my experience with the majority of pastors is that they won’t give you the time, most of them even get angry for even asking them what gospel they preach, most aren’t even aware that there are false gospels.
As expected, my pastor has not responded to my email. He has promised to to respond to a friend from Africa that I tried to connect to him, and he disappointed us. When service is over, he is always in a hurry to lock up. A pastor from far away has tons of time for me, and my local pastor has zero. Figure that. Maybe I am impatient, but on top of LS, it is too much.
Chas, I have prayed for you in your discussions with these ministries.
johninnc;
Speaking of “discernment” ministries” I hear you. I’m currently having email exchanges with a couple of the more prominent ones that I have contacted regarding certain of their views about “repentance” and “easy-believism”. The exchange with the first site has been straightforward and has caused them to think. The exchange with the second site has not been so straightforward. I’ve gotten bogged down in a discussion of “true faith”, etc. Need prayer.
In this case, it’s like, hurry up and believe the true gospel before it’s too late. And when you do, you are discipled with a contradiction.
Jason, I have noticed quite a few of the end times “discernment” ministries don’t have the gospel right.
It’s like they teach “hurry up and believe a false gospel before it’s too late.”
I want to make a point about Lea Mac on Youtube. Hers is typical of end times discernment ministries. Her interest in sensational reportings led her into acceptance of Owuor. She later realized that Owuor is false. She makes this astute remark about Owuor’s ministry: “we do not need any man to give us ten steps for getting into heaven. Faith in Jesus is the only way”. But then she turns right around and gives the romans road. It is her ten steps. I told her in a comment: shame on your contradictions. I hope she is not a true believer. She also holds flat earth and FEMA rumors. I do not need any man or woman to give me prayers to say, calling on the lord, or repenting of sin. Adeola Fayehun (a satircal journalist) is much clearer on the gospel in her few words on the subject than Lea: Jesus has never disappointed anyone. No contradiction follows, and back to the news. Much speaking gets in the way of truth.
Thanks Rina. That was according to the Word and comforting. I did not go to church this Sunday. I wrote my pastor an email telling him why my mom and I are uncomfortable. I shared Jim Floyd’s article on romans road heresy. I also shared Edwardpf123’s video denouncing it. My mom is more comfortable in her methodist church than in my fundamental baptist church under that heresy.
Jason, if the pastor insists that someone must call on the Lord to receive the free gift of eternal life, he is adding to the gospel.
Hi Jason,
Yes agree with Holly its works, they are adding to Grace and its law they are trying to put you under law. Lordship Salvationist are modern day pharisees.
If u add one work you nullify grace and you have a gospel that doesn’t save.
Satan has so masterfully crafted this false gospel to blind and damm the masses which he has so successfully done. Most people think we are being too picky with the gospel, one is Grace and the other is works we can’t have both.
Just remember the gospel is so simple, its easy-believism and mental assent which the Calvanists attack. If the gospel is hard (hard-believism) then its from the devil he adds lots of conditions onto justification and sanctification.
God wants people to be saved theres nothing wrong with easy believism its mocked all day long, run from them as they are under works salvation and don’t really believe what the bible says, they want are hard believism, like Macarthur endorses. Those false gospels will send them to hell, Jesus said in Matthew 7.21 Not everyone who says lord lord will be saved, they all want to add their bit to the gospel, jesus did all the work, all we have to do is believe its that simple..The true gospel of Grace eliminates all human boasting……
Jason, that helps clarify, thanks. In that case, yes, I would get out of there if the ‘gospel’ is lordship, it is another.
My mom was bothered by their invitations. To her, it had the tone of, “you need to get saved”. She was like, “am I not saved already?”. It has the same effect on her as hearing John Piper say you need to beg God. John 3:30 is their favorite verse. Repentance must decrease, rest must increase. They are clueless.
Jason, I would be cautious. Sometimes, people will say you don’t have to turn from sin to receive eternal life, but you have to be sorry for your sin, or be willing to turn from your sin, or be willing to be turned from your sin, and so on.
One suggestion is to talk to some of the people that have been going there for ra while. If they are clear on the gospel, that may mean that they have heard the gospel presented clearly on a consistent basis. If not, then perhaps not.
Holly, I am double-minded about this church. The pastor explained to me that repent of sin does not mean to stop sinning. He uses that phraseology sometimes. I thought I had an imperfect but acceptable church. But after eight weeks of attending, I realized that I rarely hear the gospel. I do not recall that I hear it. The service always ends with an alter call. He uses the Romans Road. Hearing a call on the lord gospel every day wears me out.
Jason65
I am confused by a few things you said, can you clarify?
You said, ‘made my mom uncomfortable to hear a steady barrage of exortations to get saved.’
Was this a good gospel she was hearing? Paul said he was determined to know nothing among the Corinthians except Christ and Him crucified. The gospel is repeated in many ways and many times throughout the epistles.
The second thing you said that confused me, was if your friends weren’t going, you don’t have a reason to go. Why is that? If it has sound teaching, and we can gather with sound believers, whether friends we know or not, go for it!
Did I misunderstand?
Johninnc, I agree, and tell my friends and family as often as I can, because we figure once we know the gospel we’re good. NO! We need to shod our feet with it daily. I finally really figured it out practically speaking.
At my own church, it made my mom uncomfortable to hear a steady barrage of exortations to get saved. She has attended with me twice. I have two friends that were considering the church, and they agree with me. If they aren’t going, I don’t have a reason to go. I am hearing the call on him gospel every Sunday. I need to hear the believe in him gospel.
Jason, good point. We receive eternal life by grace through faith in Christ, not by saying a prayer, no matter what words we may use.
To truly believe means to call on the Lord, according to some. What words to use? They don’t say. Easy-prayerism is hard-believism. Reject.
Jason, I probably won’t link to ExPreacherman, but may be able to send it to you via email.
I would be interested in the tract, too.
Mary, please feel free to send me the draft tract using the ExPreacherman email, linked below:
https://expreacherman.com/email-us/
I may take a look, provided it’s not too long.
Hi John have misplaced your email and Alice is away, can you re-send it to me, have a tract on lordship salvation and the false gospels of the day, this guy Phillip who is very gifted would like to share it before he prints it.
Holly, it is vital for a believer to be grounded in God’s Word, particularly the gospel message, to be able to fend off attacks. It is part of putting on the whole armor of God.
One thing a believer can be sure of is if they are not in the Word, Satan will gain ground in their lives, and deception somehow can become the truth as they believe men, and refuse to be Bereans. His Word is our necessary food. They can be accused by these mini-accusers of the brethren. They can be put under fear and doubt, but worst of all, their gospel is worthless and without power. I hate it.
Best we can do is keep contending earnestly for the faith once delivered, and keep feeding/tending His sheep. We can mark and avoid the false, and try to recover those whose faith has been made shipwreck and pull some from the fire. Praying always… Rejoicing always 🙂 God bless you guys.
Mary, you are right that desire to read the Bible is not evidence of eternal life, nor is lack of desire to read the Bible evidence that someone lacks eternal life.
It is frustrating when anyone, particularly someone who identifies as a Christian, is disinterested in the clarity of the gospel message.
Hi,
Yes I like Alice, struggle with god saying I never knew you, I have been trying to reach the Arminians who believe they can lose their salvation, that god is going to reject the.. They tell us that we have it wrong, but I believe in unconditional salvation and that everyone else has got it wrong.
There is a guy who has a discernment ministry called Joshua, on You Tube called Servus Christi, who used to attend a Baptist church where I think he has picked up his Calvanism and then attended Calvary Chapel where he probably picked up his Arminianism. He thinks neither are false.?????
He does a wonderful job at exposing MacArthur, as MacArthur has had a shepherds conference with Piper and Matt Chandler, he is hanging out with all the Calvanists as you would expect. But this guy Joshua is exposing MacArthur for all his ecumenical associations but he himself does not see how the Paul Washers and all these guys preach a false gospel, so he is only addressing the fact that they r all mingling in together, even with Loui Giglio and Rick Warren who are all kissing the pope.
Sad that the discernment ministries of the day haven’t even got the gospel right, he is directing Jacob Prasch from Moriel Ministries who has a false gospel, honestly if you didn’t have some discernment, its all so crazy and confusing.
I have met a lady not so long ago and there are others out there they tell me that say they have Jesus and the bible and there is no need to study the bible, I tried to send her some simple booklets on the grace gospel and she said please don’t send them to me, i have a lot of stress in my life and i don’t want to go into all that heavy stuff. I have been so gobsmacked, how can u b a christian and not study the bible, not that its faith plus the bible, I just don’t get it.
She has no idea that the JW’s and the Seventh Day Adventist are cults, she is aware of Roman Catholicism being incorrect, but she just wants to go into any church and doesn’t want to get too heavy. ????????
Alice, you are right that many people think He is necessary, but not sufficient. When someone futilly attempts to mix grace with works, they are not really believing who Jesus is. The Bible calls Him our Savior, not our helper.
Thank you Johninnc for the latest edifying post. Most people in today’s (at least some evangelical) churches believe the fundamental essential doctrines that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, second Person of the Triune God, the Creator and Sustainer of the universe, born of a virgin, fully God/fully man, lived a sinless, perfect life, went to the cross bearing our sin, and paid the sin debt we owed in full through His shed blood, death, burial and resurrection. They even believe salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. While they believe all that they miss the most important doctrine: They affirm the necessity of the Cross of Christ, but deny the SUFFICIENCY of the Cross. Simply believing in Jesus is not enough.
So in the end, it is not just about Who Jesus is and What He did, but also what we must do other than simple faith in the finished work of Christ, adding all those other conditions for salvation that Johninnc listed above.
Salvation= Christ + nothing!
It is so hard for me to believe that they will be denied entrance into His presence at the gates of heaven for not getting the Gospel of grace right, but God can’t lie and He must stick to His promises He made in the Bible.
Luke NC – They have the wrong object of faith if they’re talking about saying a prayer, rasing your hand, walking down an isle, altar call, or anything else other than believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. But it’s very typical of the works salvationists. They’ll build a strawman that’s so easily destroyed it makes them feel better and superior than everybody else. We don’t tell people to say a prayer to be saved. We don’t tell people to raise their hand at the end of a sermon to be saved. We don’t tell people to come forward at the end of a sermon to be saved. We tell people to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. Jesus Christ is the object of our faith. Not anything we do or don’t do.
One I’ve heard frequently is when a pastor/speaker starts with “The church is FILLED with people –maybe sitting here on these pews!! who THINK they are saved but they really are not. They said a little prayer when they were a kid and think that saved them” So they then may start with a somewhat pure grace message (you must believe in Jesus), then dive right into a works salvation message (you need to also show evidence of that belief, you have to turn from sin, blah blah blah)…by the end people must be soo confused. It’s so sad and infuriating for those of us who know the truth to hear something like that.
This article hits home, particularly with items 5 and 6. I just read an article on a well-meaning discernment site about a Muslim who converted to Christianity. Naturally, the emphasis of his story was on the backlash and loss he has had to endure as the “cost” of becoming a Christian. Then there was the usual indictment of American Christians, how we have it so much easier, and that leads to so much fake Christianity. The interviewer brought in “easy believism” in a negative context, and how “some people think they’re Christians but they’re really not”. Much of the dialog was dripping with irony. Eventually they got around to salvation by faith alone, how many think that’s too easy, etc. But by then they’d already undermined grace with their opening remarks. Really sad.
Another good article! This “Are you REALLY saved” nonsense is another way of adding works to salvation. There is no “really saved” in the Bible, only saved and unsaved. For them, a saved person is someone who just believes, but a “REALLY saved” person is one who trusts in himself, that he is righteous (in his own eyes of course). It’s about as dumb as saying that someone in their grave isn’t really dead because maggots aren’t decomposing their body. When both of them are in the same condition, they’re just dead.
JustinNC, we are thankful that you are here and that you find our articles to be a blessing.
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These articles always seem to roll out when I need hearing them the most. Thank you
Galatians 2:4-5. They sneak in, and we can’t put up with it for even an hour. In 2 Cor 11:3-4, he was afraid they would ‘bear with them’ (those who brought another Jesus or another gospel). We see it all the time, people put up with them and other people are misled because of it.
Thanks for the article, I think I heard almost every one of those ‘qualifiers’ (aka works) just this last month alone. We need to keep earnestly contending for the faith once delivered.
Fryingpan, it’s always good to hear from you!
Another great and important article. Thank you for keeping this blog going and actively defending the gospel.