By johninnc
Romans 3:26: To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
I happened back across a website last night called Got Questions? I had seen it before, and knew it to be unreliable, with a definitive Lordship “salvation” (LS) bent. However, I was startled by the starkness of its false messages, and attempts to reconcile LS (which is a man-centered false gospel of works) with the gospel of grace.
Following are some excerpts, beginning first with their “statement of faith”:
Just as salvation cannot be earned by good works, neither does it need good works to be maintained or sustained. Good works and changed lives are the inevitable results of salvation.
My comment: This is a harbinger of the false messages and internal contradictions that can be found throughout their website.
If good words and changed lives are the inevitable results of salvation, then no one would have assurance of salvation until the good works manifested themselves in sufficient quantity and nature to meet the arbitrary, differential, and fickle standards of the person who is making the determination of either himself or others.
The Bible makes no such claim. In fact, the Bible says that assurance of eternal life comes from God’s promises alone.
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Under What is free grace? What is Free Grace Theology?, the Got Questions? website has some convoluted comparison of “Free Grace,” and “Lordship Salvation.” In the end, they make the startling conclusion that both “Free Grace” and LS are “within the limits of orthodoxy.” Following are excerpts (the bold emphases are mine):
Free Grace theologians consider their position more biblical than Lordship Salvation, which they consider to be a works-based theology. According to Free Grace theologians, Lordship Salvation holds that saving faith includes inherently the “act” of accomplishing radical internal change leading to good works.
This leads to the Free Grace emphasis on assurance of salvation, again based on the basic promises in John’s Gospel, that belief is all that is necessary for salvation. To the Free Grace theologian, this is a simple, cut-and-dried issue—if you believe, you are saved. For the Lordship Salvation camp, assurance of salvation comes through the observation of change in the professing believer, i.e., that he is accomplishing good works. Each camp views the other as possibly leading to heresy.
Although Free Grace Theology and Lordship Salvation are terms that have developed only recently, they represent concerns that have been around since the beginning of the church. At the end of the day, there is no question about the basic salvation of those who hold either view. Both views are within the limits of orthodoxy.
My comment: First, at Expreacherman, we do not teach that radical internal changes are an “act” that leads to good works. We simply teach what the Bible teaches – that good works, not letting sin reign in one’s life, not being conformed to the world, and walking in the Spirit are not automatic in the lives of believers. Following are some scriptures that prove it:
Titus 3:8: This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Romans 6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Romans 12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Galatians 5:16: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Second, the errant Got Questions? website has admitted that LS forces its sad adherents to search their performance for assurance of eternal life. This is no basis for assurance.
Third, teaching people to look to their works for evidence of eternal life is not within the limits of orthodoxy. Anyone who thinks good works are necessary to prove salvation needs to be shown why that isn’t true.
With that in mind, we will turn to the article at Got Questions? entitled What is Lordship Salvation? See excerpts below:
Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior…
Faith itself is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:1-5,8), and real faith endures forever (Philippians 1:6)…
Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master…
My comment: Contrary to the claims of Got Questions?, Lordship “salvation” IS a salvation-by-works doctrine. Their claims are both non-biblical, and internally inconsistent. Faith itself is NOT a gift of God, faith need not involve a commitment to Christ in order to result in eternal life, and faith is NOT more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel. None of the biblical references that they have provided, nor any other passages from the Bible, support their erroneous claims.
The Got Questions? site is managed by a group that is either ignorant of grace or enemies of grace. Either way, the site, and those involved with it, should be marked and avoided.
So, is Lordship “salvation” a false gospel of works? Despite what the false teachers from Got Questions? have to say, the Biblical answer is ABSOLUTELY!
If you would like the truth regarding how to have eternal life, click here: THE GOSPEL.
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Phil, I am glad that you heard a good message today. As the late Jack Weaver used to say about false teachers, “the woods is full of ’em.”
It is good to see people’s smiling faces, and I hope one day soon almost everyone will feel comfortable showing them.
A good sign in a church I attend. Todays sermon was on 1 John 2:18-28 on false teachers and antichrists that we believers can encounter and how we believers should be able to discern and flee from those who to take God’s power and twist his word. This can be like the legalizers in the Galatian church that Paul condemned, or the threat of antichrists that John warns about.
This of course this is central to the purpose of this site. I was very encouraged to hear this pastor doing this series on this subject.
I am also encouraged to see a full house in the service. People do get stronger for the Lord and turn to him more in troubled times.
I was also good to see the congregation where it did not look like an operating room. Pretty much everyone was unmasked and shaking hands. Of course, I respect anyone’s choice whether to wear a mask or not.
johninnc, yes I only found that ‘by accident’, I usually stay away.
Hobbs, be that as it may, Got Questions undermines that with its false “backdoor” LS/Calvinist doctrine.
I would stay away from them.
A while back I discovered that there is an article on Got Questions entitled ‘What is the gospel?’ and, correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I can see it is completely consistent with the gospel as understood here. It appears to be ‘crystal clear’. I guess I was kinda surprised to see that.
I am going to post this comment under two threads.
Today, I did a search of “true Christian” on Google, to see how many results I would get. I got 1.29 billion, despite the phrase never showing up in the Bible.
The first result was “Got Questions,” which described a “true Christian” as follows:
Despite the wide variety of beliefs that fall under the general “Christian” label today, the Bible defines a true Christian as one who has personally received Jesus Christ as Savior, who trusts in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone for forgiveness of sins, who has the Holy Spirit residing within, and whose life evinces change consistent with faith in Jesus.
My comment: Anyone who has believed in Jesus as Savior has eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited, and is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Adding “whose life evinces change consistent with faith in Jesus” is both vague and categorically false. The Bible never defines a “true Christian,” and never conditions eternal life on a person’s life evincing change. A Christian is someone who has believed in Jesus as Savior. Period.
Pete, welcome and thanks for your comment.
We are glad that you agree that Lordship “salvation” is a false gospel.
This site is dedicated to making clear how to have eternal life by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
You are absolutely right on the mark about this hereditary Lordship salvation (so called). They have the wrong Jesus, the wrong definition of Grace, and the wrong gospel. Which is not another. It prevents the record that God gave of His son, and therefore calls God a lier.
But we know that’s impossible. Grace is unmerited, period. Salvation is by Grace alone, through Christ alone, by faith alone. For whom He has justified, them He has also Glorified. Positional truth depends on true grace, unconditionally. He is able to save us to the uttermost. Full and free, forevermore. Praise be to Jesus. My savior forever!
Kakash, doubts often come by listening to the teaching of men. It also comes from difficult passages that people misconstrue regarding losing eternal life, or proof of eternal life.
Please openly ask any questions. There is a difficult passages section on this blog, which will help answer some of those questions. Always when you’re reading a passage, ask WHO it is being spoken to (i.e. eternally secure believers). Ask whether the ‘salvation’ spoken of speaks of being saved from eternal hell or a deliverance from something else.
Eternal life is free, and is God’s promise. He will never take it away. I’m reformatting an old article on Eternal Security on my blog Redeeming moments (linked on the right) and hope to have it done today Lord willing.
Keep studying His Word, choose the good thing, it will not be taken from you (Lk 10:38-42)
Kakashi, some believers have doubts, some more than others. Some have very few, or none. It is not the quality of our faith that saves us, it is the object – Jesus Christ. We do not have to come to the point that we know we will never have any doubts again in order to be saved. If a believer has doubts, the last thing that will help is trying to believe harder.
When someone is experiencing doubts about whether or not he has actually believed, asking himself if he is sure may only cause more doubt.
I would recommend focusing on Christ, and not on your doubts.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross to save me, that he was buried and that he rose again on the third day. It just happens that I constantly doubt whether or not I’m saved. I read the Bible and my doubts go away but they come back. Does this mean I’m not saved? But I believe and trust Jesus and what he did to save me. That the only thing I cling on to. I only cling on his promises. But I am afraid because I think I don’t believe him enough because of this doubts.
Kakashi
I just saw this. Many of us have battled the confusion and some of still battle the confusion. I am praying for as well.
Kate.
Kakashi, praying you will be able to rest in Him, as you get more time in His Word and prayer. Trust in His grace and mercy, and ask Him to show you over time how to rightly divide His Word. Stick with us here, we’ll do our best to answer questions.
helpedbygrace, I agree with Tom that Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to eternal life, rather than faith, as the gift of God.
If faith itself were the gift, and faith is also the means by which we appropriate eternal life given to us by Christ Jesus, then eternal life would not really be a gift received freely – it would be an imposition.
If faith itself were the gift, and not everyone receives the gift, it would mean that God withholds eternal life from some people, even though the Bible says that eternal life is available to everyone (Revelation 22:17).
If faith itself were the gift, that would mean that God has not given us free will. If God hasn’t given us free will, then any choice we make is really Him making it for us. That would necessarily include all sin.
If faith itself were the gift, and I didn’t believe in Jesus, that would mean that God doesn’t want all people to be saved. Yet, the Bible clearly states otherwise (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4).
I saw one of Tom’s sermons where he quoted a Bible scholar saying that salvation is the gift in Ephesians 2:8-9, not faith. If you have any experience with latin languages like french or spanish, you know that some nouns are feminine and some nouns are masculine or neuter. In these languages, you would be able to tell which noun an adverb is referring to based on whether the adverb is feminine or masculine/neuter. According to this Bible scholar, the construction of Ephesians 2:8-9 in greek shows that the gift is salvation, not faith. This would make sense since it also agrees with other Bible passages like Romans 6:23.
Kakashi, welcome. I have prayed for you.
I would recommend you read the articles linked below:
Click to access English-Display-Pkg-2014.pdf
https://expreacherman.com/2013/02/15/3-reasons-why-the-gospel-of-grace-is-the-true-gospel/
These should help.
A blessed day. Can anyone please recommend some articles that I can read and verses on the Bible that supports the faith alone in Christ alone? I have been battling with all of these confusion and I would want nothing more but to get these off me. I would also appreciate it if anyone can pray for me. Thank you very much! God bless.
Holly, “Got Questions” gives lots of non-biblical answers that corrupt the gospel. It is LS through and through.
Johninnc – if gotquestions was right in that regard (they are not), then I wonder what the guy in 1 Cor 5 was like before his sin ‘decreased’?
….such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles…
Below is another sad quote from “Got Questions”:
The hallmark of a true Christian is the decreasing presence of sin in his life.
My comment: If that statement were unequivocally true, than the basis for assurance of eternal life would be the decreasing presence of sin in one’s life.
The Bible says that we can have assurance of eternal life based on God’s promise alone, without reference to the extent, if any, to which our lives begin to manifest change.
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Larry – you are right to be troubled. It does affect their gospel, not only how they give it out (rarely consistently the same) but also how they troublt others who may have believed). One site I saw recently was called ‘reason for hope’. On their statement of faith they had what seemed to be a fairly normal gospel (but no real detail or defense of certain truths). Yet on another page, they start off o.k., then continue with their laundry list of works.
We can’t earn our salvation. We are saved by God’s grace alone, through faith in Jesus. If you don’t know Jesus, 1) repent of your sins today. 2) Confess your sins and 3)ask Jesus for forgiveness. 4) Turn from your sins and turn to Jesus. Trust that He loves you, that He paid the penalty for your sins, that He desires you to come to Him in faith, and that He will forgive you and give you eternal life.
Larry, I think someone who believes in Lordship “salvation”(LS)would believe in LS whether or not those parables were even part of scripture. I think they would simply find other proof texts to support their false doctrine.
Many LSers believe that the prodigal son was saved before he left his father’s house, and that his return proves that a “true Christian” may stray for a while, but that he will always return.
The parable of the sower clearly says that people represented by soil 2 believe for a while. Since we know that anyone who believes has everlasting life, it seems clear to me that those represented by soils 2-4 have everlasting life.
But, people who believe the false doctrine of LS are always looking for evidence that someone has eternal life, while at the same time denying biblical proof. If you haven’t already read it, you may be interested in the article on that subject, which is linked below:
https://expreacherman.com/2014/09/03/lordship-salvation-looking-for-evidence-while-denying-proof/
I believe “Lordship/Reform doctrine has greatly influenced theological viewpoint even though they may say they are not Reform or Lordship.
My son is attending a Baptist church and the pastor takes the position that the prodigal son was lost (on the way to hell) before he returned to the father. And in the parable of the sower the only “genuine” believers were the seeds that fell on good ground. This troubles me as I believe it will greatly impact how they give out the gospel and how they determine whether one is saved or lost.
Larry
William, very good points.
The account of the demon possessed man in Mark 5:18-20 who was healed by Jesus debunks Lordship Salvation’s false teaching that one cannot be saved unless one makes Jesus as “Lord”.
Mark 5:18-20 – 18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil PRAYED HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM.
19 HOWBEIT JESUS SUFFERED HIM NOT, but saith unto him, GO HOME to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.
20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.
The man who was demon possessed and healed by Jesus obviously wanted to follow Jesus as Lord as the context of verse 18 clearly indicates, BUT Jesus told him “NO”, but that he should go home and tell his family and friends how God has been gracious to him.
This same account is recorded in Luke 8:38-39:
38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed BESOUGHT HIM THAT HE MIGHT BE WITH HIM, BUT JESUS SENT HIM AWAY, saying,
39 RETURN TO THINE OWN HOUSE, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
From these 2 accounts, it is obvious that this healed man wanted to follow Jesus and be His disciple and make Him Lord, BUT Jesus said “NO”, thus debunking Lordship Salvation.
Sola scriptura: scripture + Augustine
Sola fide: faith + works to prove it
Sola gratia: favoritism
Solus Christus: making jesus lord of your life
Soli Deo Gloria: glory to me because of my many wonderful works
They don’t have the Five Solas. They have redefined “solus -a -um” as MEtheism.
“Got Questions” is no place to get answers! I often hear Calvinism being praised as “logical”. I could never see it as anything but an illogical system that contradicts scripture when read in context. Calvinism is not logical but it is highly systematized. It can and will always circle back on itself and there are many “boogie men” that threaten the system that they must warn of (like easy believism) with no shortage of catchy nonsensical phrases to use like “salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything” or “we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone”. “Free” redefined. “Faith” redefined. “Alone” redefined.
The system is arranged around the Five Solas one of them being Scripture alone (where they say they get the “doctrines of grace”). What they really mean (in their conversations) is Scripture as (insert name of famous Calvinist) reads it (and adds to it) and they do this even after you have sorted out the “you” “we” “us” “them” of their favorite proof text (Rom 8, Eph 2, Jam 2, 1John etc). It’s a hard circle to break.
Oh, and how about this gem?—“If there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place.” This makes “no works” the opposite of faith when in reality “doubt” is the opposite of faith. “Got Questions” is pushing doubt, boasting in works and not preaching faith alone in Christ alone because “alone” simply does not mean alone. Duh!
Their answers cause my head scratching. Do they teach Calvinism? No question
It is interesting that Calvinists/Lordship “salvationists” falsely claim that FAITH is the gift of God. Then, they suggest one examine his works to determine whether he has received that gift of faith. If the works aren’t present, according to their false doctrine, one probably hasn’t received the “gift of faith.”
Following are excerpts from an article at “Got Questions” entitled “What is Easy Believism?” I bolded some sections for emphasis.
So we see that faith, given as a gift by God, is what saves us. But the next verse tells of the results of that salvation: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Rather than being saved by some easy act of our own wills, we are saved by the hand of God Almighty, by His will and for His use. We are His servants, and from the moment of salvation by faith, we embark on a journey of pre-ordained good works that are the evidence of that salvation. If there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.
My comment: Eternal life, not faith, is the gift of God.
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
No “evidence of growth and good works” is necessary to confirm that one has received the free gift of eternal life.
Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.
My comment: NONSENSE! Something cannot be free to someone, yet cost them ANYTHING or EVERYTHING. Easy believism does not fail in its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. There is simply no guarantee in the Bible that a Christian will lead a progressively changed life.
Further, if faith is the gift of God, as “Got Questions” so falsely asserts, then why would they say that anyone “comes to Christ in faith”? According to their false doctrine, Christ comes to them with faith.
The picture used at “Got Questions” is of a man scratching his head for answers. See below:
Guy scratching head.
“Got Questions” is scratching for answers that simply aren’t there. It is a heretical Lordship “salvation” site that should be avoided at all costs.
Lise,
Yes, I can relate!! I struggle reading Scripture now because of the LSer’s & the lies Satan uses them to teach! Satan has a fine time in my mind. But, I hope you will be encouraged that no matter his tricks & lies you KNOW in whom you have put your faith & you will not be disappointed.
I encourage you to take John’s advice….by the way, I have had difficulties in doing the things John listed still, so don’t get discouraged.
God bless!
Thanks, Holly.
Yeah, I looked over the site, at their SOF. After I’d posted there I saw that confusing bit you quoted. I agree, it does have a “repent of sins” sound to it. My posted questions haven’t drawn any further response so far. Doesn’t look like a site I’d waste anymore time with.
Thanks for the prayerful back-up, everyone.
When I was on Black Voices, where I didn’t belong, I met some Pentecostals who believed in eternal security. One of them was even Word of Faith. Unfortunately, the fine nuances between grace and Zellerism were never brought up. In fact, I probably confused them. They made me feel better because of the extreme LS views that had me down. One of them had a doctrine of reprobation that he applied to me when I said that I would not repent of an issue where he was weak. Needless to say, they were an unstable bunch. Hebrew Israelites, Muslims, goddess worshipers, and Egyptians were participants in the general brawl. I heard of Obama five years before he ran for president, and they were already hopeful. What a mess.
I found a SOF on their ‘grace’ site, and it appears they do believe in a separate baptism of the Spirit. They also say this confusing bit.
“Man can only be saved by justifying God, believing and acknowledging the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repenting, allowing God to justify us freely by grace.”
Since they separate repenting to the end, it suggests they believe repentance means turning from sin. And I still didn’t see any ‘gospel’ (whether true or not) in the SOF.
Chas, just a thought. Whether Pentecostals don’t hold with the hyper WOF Pentecostals, they still are all basically Arminian. Some will tell you that eternal life is eternal, but you can ‘walk away’. I haven’t ever met a Pentecostal pastor who has that one right, which means they don’t have the gospel right. I’d find his gospel, because likely it has a turn from sin requirement, and possibly a (if-you-don’t-speak-in-tongues-you-haven’t-been-baptized-by-the-Spirit caveat). I don’t know much about him, just quickly perused his blog. Whenever I can’t find an easy gospel, I just don’t spend time listening to anything they have.
Could you find one?
Chas, I’m praying for you.
Just to be clear though, there are Christians who are licentious. And, others are licentious sometimes. As you said, sin in the lives of believers has consequences – both natural and eternal. But, even licentiousness does not annul grace.
Oh well, looks like I’ve stepped in it again.
I was looking over Bill Randles Blog, reading an article entitled “What is Anti-Christ?” Mostly, it was about the Word/Faith doctrine (rejecting same) and the damage it was doing in the Church. As to that it seemed okay, but then I ran into this:
“He, the spirit of antichrist is forming a body of false christians, a bride of antichrist, steeped in mysticism, experienced based christianity, false prophecy, and a distorted “grace doctrine” which actually gives license to sin, and denies the reality of a final punishment” (Bold, mine.)
That last part in bold is what made me wonder, so I asked a question in the comments:
“I’m with you where Rodney Howard Brown and his ilk are concerned, but it isn’t clear what you mean by ‘a distorted “grace doctrine” which actually gives license to sin, and denies the reality of a final punishment.’ That doesn’t refer to the Free Grace doctrine, does it? (Most of the Free Grace advocates I’ve read are strict cessationists.)”
Even though the FGM has been compromised to some degree, I used the term “Free Grace” because I couldn’t think of any term that would be more familiar to the other side. Anyway, another commenter replied with this:
“Correct me if this is wrong, but in my experience…. the ‘distorted grace’ doctrine is this:
license to continue to live our own way – because ‘God’s grace covers it all’ and ‘we aren’t under the law, so we can do whatever we want and still be forgiven… basically, nothing is “sin” anymore if you’re a “christian”… you’re covered by ‘fire insurance’.”
That, of course, is a popular distorted caricature of the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, and as such it struck me as just what a LS-er would say. The commenter also quoted Titus 2:11-15 and “Jude 1:4” (sic).
I responded:
“Thank you for taking the time to reply, [name withheld]. You’ve cited what some falsely attribute to the ‘Free Grace’ view of justification, and stated what is essentially John MacArthur’s ‘Lordship Salvation’ view. It’s not clear to me that Pastor Randles holds MacArthur’s view. I certainly hope not.
Re: Titus 2:11-15: The passage is not a definition of grace, but a statement of God’s intent in giving His grace–His “UN-merited favor”–which cannot be earned in any way; not by works, not by “turning from sin” and not by any promises to do so.
Those of the Free Grace view do not turn the grace of God into licentiousness. We acknowledge that a believer’s continuing in sin will incur God’s discipline, and a lack of Spirit-led good works will result in a lack of rewards in heaven. But neither good works, turning from sin, nor any promises to do either play a part in justification. Eternal life is a gift; received by grace alone, through faith alone in the sacrifice of Christ alone. A gift requires no payment, reimbursement or pledge of future compensation.
‘To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the UN-godly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,’ (Ro. 4:5)”
Naturally, my response didn’t cover all points of contention. It’s probable that the commenter will fire away with the complete arsenal of LS “proofs”. So, what I’m saying is, pray for me. I think I’ve opened a can of worms. And I still don’t know what Randles’ views are because he has not responded as of this post.
Luke, I’ve prayed for the people with whom you shared the gospel.
Hi all .Had some wonderful conversations with many unbelievers at work today . The message of free grace Is so much different to the LS message . I knew grace was making sense to some as they effectively were asking “what then shall we say shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? ” “are you saying even when a Christian sins it’s forgiven because of Jesus?” No one who ever preached the false gospel of got questions are would ever be asked questions like that . This surely shows they are out of sync with the gospel message. Please pray for the people I spoke to ,some defiantly seemed effected and could see that this indeed was good news : )
I am also thankful for Holly’s comment. I hated to post my comments but I had to think seriously about recommending an entire series for those recovering from false doctrine. If it wasn’t helping me, could it help my neighbor? Exposure to persecution gospels in the past has made me hypersensitive. I have been helped by both Tom and Ralph, and being negative is far from me.
When Jesus says that the world will hate us, He is not saying anything along the lines of “a Christian will” but simply being realistic, much like we ourselves would be if we said that life is not a bowl of cherries. He cannot contradict Himself and surely would not teach, “Judge not or ye shall be judged” (as in Matthew 7:1), and then encourage us to judge each other over a fruit.
Holly, thank you for a wise and thoughtful comment.
One thing I know is I’m constantly cleaning up my past stuff, as we quote people not knowing their full doctrine. My parents went to J. Vernon McGee’s church and did the Bible studies in our home when I was a little girl. I remember sneaking out to the hallway to listen to his drawl, and remember about one thing, and that is ‘this is where the rubber meets the road’ (something to that effect). The preacher before I ‘think’ was Talbot when my dad was a little boy. The issue is a lot of these men learned from other men’s commentaries without proving all things by the Word. We all need to do that, and one thing I know about Tom is that he is open always to hearing and is not quoting people now if he can help it. I am also trying to be careful and also have to spend some time to clean up my recommended list, although we all have the responsibility to be Bereans, to test the spirits, to prove all things.
We also need to be cautious in bringing accusations against elders, and realize sometimes someone else see’s things from a different way than we view it. For example the first thing I thought with ‘you can’t be a Christian and be popular’ is that we’ll always be hated (by the enemy) whether it seems that way in public or not. Carnal believers of course can be popular. But Luke 6:26 came to mind as well as others, but I see what Jason is saying, so he saw it another way, and really, he is correct there.
A believer can be popular. Who knows how these men mean things when they say them and since we’re human, we’re apt to make mistakes anytime we start using our own statements (or other’s words) vs. teaching His Word. I’ve done it, and about the time I think I’m being careful, I do it again, but that’s what the body is for to hold each other accountable and help each other be careful in all these things.
For what it’s worth Jason, I found this sermon by Yankee very encouraging recently: The Necessary Blood of Christ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFKDvcT8z1I We can all use some encouragement in these trying times I’d say.
Indeed. I listened to that series on John partly to recover from listening last week to the cult that I brought up on this thread. What I am hearing in these parts is not helping.
Note: Please remember to consider all interpretations of scripture in light of consistency with the clear biblical tenets of grace, eternal security, and assurance based solely on God’s promises – no matter who the source is.
See number 4 under my previous comment in this thread.
Part 46 pos 15:55 is shocking, especially coming from a careful preacher. It is a thought I myself had during a careless moment and later regretted.
A more general annoyance is that the later parts of the series are sounding too much like the epistles. How is John 12-14 part of that which was written that we may know we have eternal life? I am unenlightened. Part 45 even sounds like the Sermon on the Mount!
Jason, being a believer who waffles on grace also improves one’s appeal to the religious community.
It is difficult to be popular without being carnal, but being popular and a carnal believer is easy.
Jason, Tom is usually careful with references, but that one isn’t good, nor accurate.
I’m not a big fan of McGee and consider him to have been inconsistent on grace, at best, and more likely LS.
It is difficult to be out as a grace believer and still be poplular, particularly with the churchianity set. But, it is not impossible to be a believer and be popular.
I am listening to Tom’s 58 part series on John. The early parts were helpful. But starting in part 45, I’m feeling condemnation. Too many McGee quotes, some of which are plain awful. Example: “it is impossible to believe and be popular”. Really? If I have learned anything here, I have learned that it is possible to be a believer and do or be pretty much anything, not that one should.
Jason, thanks for your encouraging words for Lise!
A year ago, I was where Lise is now. Spending time with Biblical teaching has helped. It amased me how some Bible passages read differently, later.
lise, I have a few suggestions.
1. Pray for God to guide you where you are confused.
2. Remember that God neither lies, nor contradicts himself. Since the Bible is the word of God, there are no lies or contradictions.
3. Use clear passages to explain major tenets of the faith (grace, eternal security, assurance), rather than using less clear passages.
4. As you read passages in scripture, and consider what they might mean, think about ALL THREE of the following:
– Is it consistent with eternal life by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone?
– Is it consistent with eternal security?
– Is it consistent with assurance of eternal life, based on God’s promises alone (i.e., it is not internally-focused on changes in attitudes, behavior, etc.)?
If an interpretations meets ALL THREE of these criteria, it COULD be correct. If it does not meet ALL THREE, it CANNOT be correct. Realize that any previous LS interpretation that you may have heard is not true.
5. Read “THE GOSPEL” booklet by Ron Shea once a day for a whole month. Then, read the book of Galatians through multiple times.
6. Listen to some sermons on “Sermon Audio” from a reliable pastor, such as Tom Cucuzza. Start with his verse-by-verse series on the book of John.
7. Ask questions here, but remember not to rely on what people tell you, unless it lines up with scripture and clearly meets the criteria of grace, eternal security, and assurance.
8.You may not understand a verse or passage completely, and that’s OK. More understanding will come with time, as you are better grounded.
I’ve got a question.
Is there a Bible teacher anywhere who can lead me through scriptures and help me to find hope when all I see when I look is condemnation?
I don’t find encouragement in the Bible. Where is the good news?
I have over 30 years of LS teaching that’s been drilled into me. I feel like I need every passage to be re-taught.
I can believe that God loves me and all is forgiven– past, present, and future, and that all I have to do is trust him.
But then I open my Bible and I’m instantly deflated.
Can anyone else relate to this?
Jon, no. Neither good works nor spiritual growth are inevitable in the life of a Christian.
Is there a difference between someone suggesting works are inevitable vs spiritual growth is inevitable for a believer?
Ha, ha. Good one, johninnc. Very true. 🙂 The false gospel message is ages older for sure.
Jason, like Got Questions, all of the others you mentioned are bad news.
Got Questions articles were items I used to stumble upon a lot in my searches. Just months before I came here, they were one of the winds of doctrine that were blowing me, along with Anderson, JesusIsSavior, and Zeller.
Jason, Satan is very subtle. He likes to have people dwell on false teachings to either keep people lost or to trip up believers.
Me too. The sublety of these cults is not that they teach LS in its naked deformity, but that they challenge our fundamental assumptions about what God really said. Did God really say, leave your life and follow me? Did he really say that to Peter the fisherman? Is Peter the model for every believer? It is very disarming. They are wise as serpents and not harmless as doves.
Fryingpan, it is always good to hear from you!
Yeah, their parody of “Got Milk” is really old. Not as old as their works-for-salvation doctrine, but really old.
Fantastic article, johninnc! You once again knock it out of the park. Not only is “Got Questions” errant, but THEY’RE LS through and through!
Ugh. Wow. Wowie. Wow. (Sorry, I can’t stop.)
Praise be to God that the nearly 5 years since discovering this blog have given me the ability to not be taken in by these folks!
Disgusted . . .
I’d actually mark and avoid them just for using the Got Milk? parody. But that’s my personal bias. 🙂 It was cute 25 years ago but it’s been done approximate 17 quadrillion times now. Show some initiative and find some original ideas, guys.
Jason, if the guys you referenced believe they need to do these things to have eternal life, then they are not following Jesus.
I try to stay away from cults.
Brady, the huge problem with the view that “faith” is the gift of God is that it is used to support the Calvinist tenet of unconditional election.
The Bible says that eternal life, not faith,is the gift of God (Romans 6:23). One receives the Spirit upon believing in Jesus as Savior (Galatians 3:2).
And yes, Christians are instructed to walk in the Spirit, and to not grieve the Spirit.
Hebrews 12:2 refers to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith, but that does not mean that God chooses who will believe in Jesus as Savior.
Is Lordship Salvation a teaching of Jesus? The cult, Jesus Christians, sincerely thinks so. And they think they are the only followers of Jesus. No other group takes the teachings of Jesus as literally as they do: quit your job, sell all your possessions, give all your money to the poor, hate your family, live like the sparrows, do not keep a spare kidney, and if your right hand causes you to worship mammon during the great tribulation, then cut it off literally. Talk about radical. I was unfortunate to stumble upon one of their youtube channels, A Voice in the Desert. They teach that America will be nuked right before the tribulation, with no rapture.
It is impossible to follow their teachings without living like bums, and when I dig deeper, that is exactly what they do. They teach dogmatically that having a job and getting paid is worshiping mammon. They also engage in illegal activities, kidnapping, and self-flagellation. Such a lifestyle would cause me to worry about food, and they tell me it won’t? They get thrills from offending others. John 5:24 is a teaching of Jesus, and they do not follow it.
Thank you for this excellent response to Got Questions. I also noticed the completely contradictory language when I came across their definitions pertaining to grace and Lordship Theology several months ago. Biblical grace is completely absent from their attempt to answer these questions. However, I don’t think that receiving the gift of faith as a problem for Free Grace proponents anymore than receiving the Holy Spirit. But we should walk in the spirit so that we don’t grieve the Holy Spirit. And doesn’t the Bible say that God is the author and perfector of our faith?
Chas, agree. And, as you can see from the article, their feigned belief in grace soon gives way to good old fashioned front-door bilateral contract “salvation.”
Sometimes, I find it frightening how subtle the LS “gospel” can be. It is so seductive to substitute “works are inevitable” for “works are necessary” and think one is still believing the gospel of grace.
Whether it’s “necessary” works or “inevitable” works, the question is the same: “How much works?” When that unanswerable question is raised, the problem with either view is shown to be the same, and both views are shown to be false.