Lordship Salvation: MEtheism

By johninnc

2 Corinthians 4:3-4: But of our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 

In reading countless comments from Lordship “salvationists” who condemn adherents of other false religions, as well as godless atheists, it has dawned on me that Lordship “salvationists” are actually MEtheists. That is, their god is not the God of the Bible. Rather it is a false god that they have constructed that is a hybrid of the true God and themselves.

For a background definition of Lordship “salvation,” please see link below:

https://expreacherman.com/♦-lordship-salvation-defined/

While Lordship “salvationists” may give lip service to acknowledging that the Bible is God’s word, they imagine all sorts of contradictions, paradoxes, and “tensions” lie therein.

As Ron Shea notes:

Rather than coming to scripture to learn the mind of God, some unregenerate men approach scripture to justify the views they already hold…

Not surprisingly therefore, those who think that they, rather than Jesus Christ, are the Savior of their own souls have, for centuries, sought from scripture proof texts to justify this conclusion.

Like other religions, Lordship “salvation” is man’s attempt to establish his own righteousness.

Romans 10:2-3: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

The Lordship “salvationist” seems indignant that other people do not follow God’s laws – laws that he also does not follow.

Often, he constructs his own moral “code of conduct” that, in his mind, replaces God’s perfect law. If he is successful in following this code, or is at least trying, he thinks this helps justify him to God.

But, this is pure foolishness.  Anyone who tries to keep the law to be justified must keep it all to be justified.

Galatians 3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them.

And, if he thinks that others have no code, or a more relaxed code, that might indicate that they don’t have eternal life.

Romans 2:1: Therefore, thou art inexcusable O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 

Lordship “salvation” is highly focused on “life change,” or comparative conduct, for evidence of eternal life in others, or assurance of eternal life in oneself.

But, the Bible says that we are justified by faith, without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

For anyone “on the fence,” who thinks that good works are an essential evidence of eternal life, the Bible says otherwise:

John 5:24: Verily, verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word,  and believeth in him that sent me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life. 

Please note in the above verse that there is absolutely no reference to life change, sinning less, or comparing oneself to others – or even comparing oneself to oneself before becoming a believer.

If, while reading this article, you have realized that you might be trusting in your own works for eternal life – either in whole are in part – and are tired of being on that treadmill, please consider the following invitation:

Matthew 11:28: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 

If you have believed in the false gospel of MEtheism, and would like to know the truth, please click here:

THE GOSPEL

84 responses to “Lordship Salvation: MEtheism

  1. Jason, agree.

    Let’s move on from this topic.

  2. “it’s always important to only believe things that have supporting evidence”

    Isn’t that how science is supposed to work? No support for evolution but plenty for a globe.

  3. Jason it’s always important to only believe things that have supporting evidence. It can happen to people, as it has to me in the past, that just because they have uncovered some truth about something they hadn’t seen before, there must also be hidden truths in unrelated topics as well. It’s called a conspiratorial worldview where everything has to be different to what we’ve been told. That may be where things like flat earth theorism comes from.

    These people who believe this, their possible logical walk would be: “I don’t trust the government —> NASA is part of the government —> NASA says the world is round —> therefore the world is flat”.

    I am just using that as an example. The main point I am making (not just to you obviously) is don’t just leap into the first rabbit hole you see. I know I am much better off because of it.

    I just follow God’s Word now and my worldview has never been clearer because of it. The simplicity in Christ silences the complications of this world.

  4. When I was new, I asked rhetorically, is the earth flat? I was facetious. My world seemed confusing.

  5. Ah ok Holly. It amazes me that parts of humanity are regressing back to believing the earth is flat. I shall stop talking about it now.

  6. Reading Curtis’ first comment on this post,

    Romans 4:4-5 is so important. I want to try and write it in the clearest way possible.

    “To the person who trusts in their works to get to heaven, they will have to go to hell because of their unpaid-for sin debt. But to the person who does not trust in their works, but trusts in Jesus Christ’s payment for their sins, it is their faith that allows them entrance into heaven.”

    I know I didn’t have to do that, but whatever 🙂

  7. I used to think the flat earth society was a joke. Then Youtube happened.

  8. Brad – sorry, was in comment to the flat earth believer
    , the passage was Is 44 not Is 40, but still, people take select verses in any theories and don’t use the whole counsel of God as they come up with new theories. I known John didn’t want to spend any time on this, so just didn’t want to ignore you. We’ll leave it with the verse 🙂

  9. I reject your comment, “Subjective confirmation of being born again should come in time.” In fact I reject the concept of subjective confirmation for assurance. We cannot ever confirm our salvation or assurance upon our behavior or works (subjective).

    For a believer to wrestle with subjective confirmation (introspection) is to undermine their assurance.

    Jack wrote this comment less than 3 months before he died. He was weak, and could barely see, but he was tireless in his defense of the gospel.

    Amen Jack

    Introspection causes a soul to go look for someone kind of part to play in salvation. I got some kind of value somewere to play apart for salvation or to help God out to live the Christian Life. both thoughts treacherous one leads to Hell the other a defeated unfruitfull tormented Christian life

  10. Chas, I am very thankful for the life of Jack Weaver and for this site that he founded.

  11. Johninnc:

    Many thanx for that quote from the late Jack Weaver. I sure wish I’d found this site before he went home!

  12. What do you mean, Holly?

  13. I just have to add, to use Isaiah 40, but not use context…
    It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Is 40:22

  14. Johninnc – your reposted comment of Jack’s on 9-17 brought tears to my eyes, and I though immediately of the power of Christ resting upon him in his weakness.

    2 Cor 12:7-10
    7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

  15. Isaiah 40:22 – It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

    The Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”

    The bible told us the earth was round thousands of years before mankind discovered it. Christopher Columbus’ historic voyage around the earth to prove this was actually inspired by this verse.

  16. DTaylor Welcome
    Yes the Focus of expreacherman.com is the Clarity of the Gospel of Grace The Truth of The Gospel of Christ.
    Yes we/ most are aware of the flat earth society. I have personally met a young man who is and now hopefully free of the flat earth conspiracy theory.
    There is plenty of information that debunks the fallicy of a flat earth out there on the internet.
    You will not find us debating this topic at expreacherman.com
    The earth is a round globe

  17. Phil, the LSers think that the extent to which one wants to sin, or not, is pertinent in whether or not a person has eternal life.

  18. John, I think you said it well:” a person must know he is a sinner in need of a Savior.” Romans chapters 3 and 5 make this very clear, and the sinner finds his Savior in these and other passages.
    Too often we grace alone believers are portrayed like we just believe the gospel of our salvation and that’s it without what CAUSED US to trust in Christ saving work on the Cross as our only hope as helpless sinners that only Christ can redeem. We get accused of accepting Christ and then living like the devil. These legalists LS’rs hypocrates need to read what grace only believers have to say on this grace fellowship forum. and the day to day struggles with sins and how we seek to walk by the Spirit seeking to overcome sins. We here are not trying to save ourselves: we already have a Savior that has already won our complete eternal salvation.

  19. D Taylor, I would rather not spend a lot of time on this topic. I believe the earth is round.

  20. Just wanted to say that Eternal Life is as The Gospel of John says, anyone who believes that Jesus of the New Testament is the promised Messiah from the Old Testament receives the Gift of God : Eternal Life and no action can be added to faith,belief,trust.

    John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

    I know this sites main focus is exposing the false teachings of lordship salvation
    But I also wanted to pass along, something i came across last March. First i would like say that i take the Bible literally example i believe that God created Adam and Eve etc.. about creation God created everything as stated in the Bible as it is stated.
    With that said if you have not heard of this yet i would look it this topic about creation and that is. The earth God created what does it look like. Is it a spinning ball traveling through space as our God hating evolutionary scientist tell us. Or is it, as described in the Bible a flat stationary earth with the sun moon and stars moving around the flat earth. Not one time when looking into the original text/language of the Bible is there any mention of planets or a universe being created but again and again you see in the Bible God speaking about creating the Heavens (1,2,3) and the Earth.

    Take a look at Genesis 1:6-18 God states He created a raqia (vault, firmament, expanse, some also say dome) and placed the sun, moon and stars in the raqia Genesis 14,15 and 17. Also notice that there is water above the raqia and below the raqia with the sun moon and stars placed in between these waters.

    Genesis 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

    Also take a look at Joshua 10:12-15 the sun and moon stop for a whole day showing that it is the sun moving around the earth and not the earth moving around the sun.

    12 Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:
    “Sun, stand still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
    13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.

    Not trying to start a big debate but just wanted to pass this along to anyone who may want to look into this, in the Bible for themselves.
    other verses Isaiah 44:24
    Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    The question is, has the governments of the world guided by satan created this false God less creation, a globe earth. Simply to hide the very creation that testifies to the God of the Bible and keep many people from believing in the God of the Bible.

  21. Jason, we have had people come on here and insist that someone must verbally confess Christ as Lord, or make some other verbal confession in order to receive the free gift of eternal life. None of that is true.

    Someone must know he is a sinner, in need of a Savior in order to understand and believe the gospel. After all, if Christ is righteous, that distinguishes Him from us. If He was delivered for our offenses, and raised again for our justification, that means we had offenses and needed justification through Him. And, if He died for our sins, that means we had sins.

  22. How often we hear, confess that you are a sinner, along with a gospel presentation. Confession about something or other. It often goes along with other careless sayings that aren’t scriptural. But unlike the mumbo jumbo, there are passages that mention confession in some sense.

    Perhaps they don’t mean it literally. Sometimes the message may be otherwise consistent with eternal security. For instance, Afshin thinks it is ok if verbal confession is a way of expressing faith but should never be used as a barometer. Anderson requires it, and this is where he goes LS. (They both have other issues, this is just an example.) The whole thing makes me cringe, and yet it is one of those things that did not used to bother me, unless it was made into a ritual as with Billy Graham.

  23. Chas, you said: Over the weekend I got into it with somebody on a staunchly Pre-Trib prophecy site who claimed vehemently to believe in “faith alone” for salvation, only to go on to insist that “a saved person WILL have works…” etc. etc.

    My comment: This reminded me of something that the late Jack Weaver wrote a few years ago to correct someone who was errantly asserting that “subjective confirmation of being born again should come in time.” Following is an excerpt:

    I reject your comment, “Subjective confirmation of being born again should come in time.” In fact I reject the concept of subjective confirmation for assurance. We cannot ever confirm our salvation or assurance upon our behavior or works (subjective).

    For a believer to wrestle with subjective confirmation (introspection) is to undermine their assurance.

    Jack wrote this comment less than 3 months before he died. He was weak, and could barely see, but he was tireless in his defense of the gospel.

  24. Regarding the whole “you should change” doctrine (which is true), I have found that in the last year of being saved, even when I was living sinfully God was still working it all for good anyways. I was growing in His grace regardless of how I was living. That has been my personal experience.

  25. Interesting. It seems to be all about him, rather than the Word.

  26. I once drove through Charlotte on a trip home from California, and I saw an exit along the freeway for a street named after Billy Graham.

    Graham wrote a book called Just as I Am, but his message adds “but leave trasformed” to the gospel as a requirement.

  27. Brad, agree. I live in Charlotte and have to pass by billboards for the Billy Graham Library, and a big display at the baggage claim area at our airport showing Billy Graham holding his Bible preaching.

    By the way, the logo for the Billy Graham Library has his name in much larger font than for the word “library.”

  28. They are all so slick and smooth on those TV channels. They dress nicely, speak calmly, stand in beautiful auditoriums and hold the bible while they speak. But they don’t teach God’s word. Looks truly can be deceiving. They package works for salvation in so many different imaginitive ways too.

  29. John, you had me and Brad confused, lol.

    Agree, that TV preacher sounds goofy.

  30. Brad, the teaching that you referenced sounds goofy.

    I saw only one reference to “day star” in the Bible (2 Peter 1:19), and it didn’t seem to pertain to Satan.

  31. I was watching one of those “Christian” TV stations earlier and wow, first thing I hear is a preacher saying that a person posseses only an old nature while they are sinning and posseses only a new nature while they are not. I turn it off for a minute, turn it back on and he is holding a Nintendo 64 and using it as some sort of biblical analogy. Was kinda funny. I think it was “Daystar”. Isn’t that a name given to Lucifer?

  32. the stament below is not entirely mine and added corection and additions of my own.

    The kind of error that we are dealing with cannot be afforded any assumption that it is a legitimate view. It is not a respectable alternative view of theology. It is more like a systemic Virus that poisons every aspect of scripture and Christianity. It creates spiritually dead Christians and lifeless churches. While the deceived Christians may be saved themselves, but the lifetime of evangelistic fruit to lost souls, love towards the saints and the Faith Rest Life they could have had will be thwarted. What this means is that many people unnecessarily wind up never hearing the gospel, or never getting the planting or watering that they need, and they go to hell without Christ.
    If They are saved they torment themselves with looking at themselves for evidence of salvation competing against God to live the Christian Life.
    That is not acceptable. It is not a legitimate alternative.

    If the Calvanist and Arminian’s and all the other ist’s, ism’s and ite’s are right when it comes to ephesians 1:4 then:

    1. Salvation is decided outside of Christ, which is both heresy and blasphemy.

    2. All the Elect should be like John the Baptist and have the Holy Ghost from the mother’s womb with no need for regeneration or conversion. And,

    3. Evangelism is really just pretend talk for a Hindu style enlightenment ministry for those who have always been elect and just don’t know it. If the Biblical position is Correct, then all people are born Sinners. They are in Adam, not Christ. They are without hope, and without God in the world. After hearing the gospel and trusting Christ, the believer is placed into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Once in Christ, all things are become new. The believer gets a new past, present, and future, and location, all due to one thing, and one thing only Their Postion IN CHRIST.

  33. because John 3 :16 has the power of God to save a soul from lake of fire Hell.
    but John 3 :16 does not tell a soul how the Christian Life is lived by our relationship to Holly Spirit through our response to the word of God in our thinking.
    so Churchanity looks at self for evidence of salvation.

  34. Chas, it is very frustrating to see people so focused on works and life change as evidence of eternal life. Our focus should always be on Christ’s righteousness for our hope of eternal life, not our own new and improved righteousness.

  35. Regarding John 3:16, I’m sure if you asked an average Roman Catholic if they believed John 3:16 that they would quickly affirm that they do. I would have when I was RC. The problem is that RC doctrine employs double meanings for many key words. The RC church has been working full-time at countering “protestantism” ever since the Reformation began some 500 years ago. Words like “believe” and “saved” don’t have the unadorned, straightforward meaning they should have to any English-speaking person. By the same token, the “works” supposedly needed for salvation are drastically different between RCism and so-called Protestantism.

    As far as that goes, even some “strict fundamentalists” (as opposed to Evangelicals and traditional Protestants) stumble over the definition of repentance, getting all tangled up in “changed lives” as proof of salvation. Over the weekend I got into it with somebody on a staunchly Pre-Trib prophecy site who claimed vehemently to believe in “faith alone” for salvation, only to go on to insist that “a saved person WILL have works…” etc. etc. Then the person rolled out a bunch of the usual misapplied proof texts, demonstrating their own complete misunderstanding of the very Scriptures they use for support. Besides me there was only one other person (out of 8 or more) attempting to expose the unbiblical lordship-salvation aspects of such beliefs, and counter them Biblically. Very frustrating.

  36. Brad, I always like Hank, and look forward to seeing him and Jack again. I didn’t know that about changing your mind about sin, good point!

  37. Johninnc, I saw that article, and I think we’re going to be seeing more of the ‘protestant’ or ‘reformed’ and Catholic finding common ground with each other. They are just finding this out? I think most of us saw it all along.

  38. FryingPan – sorry, I am not very good with FB, but here are the exact names you can search that way.

    Christians Explaining the Heresies of Calvinism and Lordship Doctrine

    BIBLE BEREANS: Searching the Scriptures Daily

  39. I imagine Jesus was a pretty skilled carpenter too and would not be looking for a welfare check or to create a Sharia no go zone. Oops, I just made it about politics.

  40. 11% think the catholic church teaches free grace and the protestants lordship? What a whopper.

    Keith Urban sings about John 3:16, and he’s catholic.

    The what if’s make me curious, too.

  41. That’s a fantastic quote from Ron Shea. The NLT bible actually added the term “repent of sins”. I really do believe that these new bible translations are going downhill quickly. Hillsong church once gave me a bible that is literally a comic book, a huge emphasis on aesthetic pictures while sidelining the actual Word itself.

    Hank Lindstrom made a good point that the term “repent of your sins” would contextually mean “change your mind of your sins”, which would mean a person changing their mind about sin (i.e. seeing sin as a good thing if they already saw it as bad).

  42. RAS, I saw that, too. It shows that the “reverend” Jesse Jackson either doesn’t know how one receives eternal life, or misrepresents it.

  43. This is not a comment about politics or the anti-christ but I just saw where the “Rev” Jesse Jackson just said this about the POTUS —“Trump says you must be able to speak the language English to be qualified and have a job skill. Jesus would not qualify to come in Trump’s country. He would not qualify to get into Jesus’ kingdom.”
    “Rev” Ha!

  44. One of our readers and commenters, Dan Frawley, sent me a compilation of surveys conducted on the subject of “the route to salvation.” I selected on of the more recent, to give a flavor.

    It is entitled “A new dawn: Catholics and Protestants have a shocking amount in common, new Pew research finds.” The article seems to have originally been published in Christian Today. Following are some of the quotes:

    Protestants and Catholics across the West now agree on so much – including the route to salvation being both faithand works – that Christians of past centuries would be shocked, according to a new Pew survey marking the Reformation’s 500th anniversary.

    My comment: While Christians of past centuries might be shocked, I am not.

    Meanwhile, more than half of US Protestants also now believe that church teaching and traditions are as important as the Bible when it comes to faith, the findings reveal.

    My comment: my only surprise was that 48% think the Bible provides all of the religious guidance that Christians need. I would have thought the number would be lower.

    The US survey found that around half of US Protestants (52 per cent) say that both good deeds and faith in God are needed to get into heaven — historically a Catholic position. The other half (46 per cent) say that faith alone is needed to attain salvation.

    My comment: I am not surprised that as many as 46% say that faith alone is needed for salvation. Many who responded that way probably don’t know that some of what their churches teach contradicts their stated belief in salvation by grace alone.

    Indeed, only 30 per cent of all US Protestants affirm both sola fide and sola scripture.

    My comment: Again, I’m not surprised.

    However, far fewer (23 per cent) know that only Protestants traditionally teach that salvation comes through faith alone; 45 per cent erroneously say that both Protestantism and Catholicism traditionally hold that position, and only 19 per cent say that neither religious tradition espouses sola fide, while one-in-ten US adults (11 per cent) say that only Catholicism traditionally teaches that salvation comes through faith alone.

    My comment: This seems like “fake news.” I don’t know that only Protestants traditionally teach that salvation comes through faith alone. I don’t really think that most protestant religions really teach that.

  45. Good to hear from you Preston..

    Johninc please email a copy of the “what abouts”

    Curtis M

  46. @Holly. It appears one must already be in those Facebook groups to use those links . . . 🙂

  47. Holly, when I click on the second and third links, I get the error message: “The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may be broken or expired, or you may not have permission to view this page”.

  48. in proper context, content compare and the conclude.
    When peter and john the Baptist were saying to repent They were addressing Jewish believers of God in the works of the mosaic law of Sacrifice for sins.
    The Jews needed to repent of works for access to God and believe Jesus the Christ is the Final sacrifice The messianic saviour.
    Repent means to change their minds of how access God.
    God’s Standard for righteousness is Christ Jesus

  49. Brad, Ron Shea has a good summary on this:

    Repentance has no intrinsic subject. Anyone can repent, even God!

    Repentance has no intrinsic object. It is not automatically directed toward sin. One can repent about virtually anything. One can even repent from good to evil!

    Repentance has no intrinsic consequence. It does not automatically result in eternal salvation. It can result in any consequence that naturally follows the exercise God’s free will, or man’s free will.

    The actual phrase “repent of your sins” never occurs in Scripture. NEVER!

    The Bible never teaches that one must repent of their sins to be saved.

    Whenever sin is the object of repentance, the consequence of repentance is never eternal salvation.
    Whenever eternal salvation is the consequence of repentance, the object of repentance is never sin.

    In every passage on repentance relating to eternal salvation, the object of repentance is, in some way or another, the person of Jesus Christ, his eternal divinity, his atoning death, His resurrection, or the freeness of the eternal salvation he provides. The object of saving repentance is no different than the elements of saving faith described in other terms throughout Scripture.

    If you are able to remember these simple truths about biblical repentance, you will know more about repentance, and more about the doctrine of salvation, than 99.9% of the ministers filling the pulpits of Christian churches across the land. In the pages of this work, you will hopefully come to appreciate how deeply confused the church is over the very message of salvation, even at the pastoral level. With this dawning realization hopefully, you will develop a renewed sense of purpose in your Christian life . . . perhaps a purpose in your life that you have never before experienced.

    The church will never fulfill the Great Commission as long as it is confused on the very message of the gospel! Certainly not while it continues to proclaim salvation by faith plus. And the church will never be lifted from its confusion unless each of those who understand the truth of the gospel labor to change it.

  50. Jason, our statement of faith includes our belief in the pre tribulation rapture. We do have some readers who have expressed other views, but the pre-trib view is predominant.

    I personally see a lot of fear in the post-trib view, including amassing of food, weapons and ammo and sales of “end of world” supplies by charlatans such as Jim Bakker.

  51. Not only is The Clear Gospel of Grace The Truth of The Gospel free gift of eternal life to all who believe in/on upon the finished work of Christ Jesus. Given from pulpits in my area.
    The Christian Life is lived by our relationship to Holly Spirit.
    The biblical distinction between saved and lost.
    the biblical distinction of the saved between being spiritual or carnal
    is never made as well.
    belivers are either in fellowship or carnal there is no middle ground.
    if you treat everyone as saved and in fellowship with God a pulpit will never get in trouble.
    a Pulpit should never assume everyone is saved and in fellowship with God
    The Gospel message should adress both lost and saved.
    thats a reason why we see so much confusion.
    We need to keep it seperate in our thinking between Spirituality and Growth.
    Spirituality being born again happens in a fraction of a second by believing.
    Growth takes time and no 2 belivers are the same and no pulpit should try to make them the same.
    Growth happens by allowing the Word of God to saturate our thinking.
    1john 1:7 is prevention Walking in fellowship with God allowing are thinking to be adjusted before sin finds expression..
    1john 1:9 is corection when sin does find expression.
    there is no power in confession of sin. Confession of sin clears the way to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
    its what we do not do to be filled with the Spirit..

    Ad a finger nail clipping or a finger print to Grace it nullifies Grace.
    Spirituality is invisible and vertical

  52. Holly, I could not find your group on Google or Facebook search. All sorts of “Berean Bible” churches (mostly LS), but not “Bible Bereans”.

    The word “Berean” hardly means anything anymore.

  53. If the word repent means a turn from sin then the bible contradicts itself, it simply cannot mean that inside of biblical context. The KJV translators by and large did a great job translating the bible, but using the word repent was a grievous mistake. Satan has made great use of it.

    The word repent has become nothing more than a mantra of legalism. So many people are just theologically stuck on it. If someone comes along and tells them the true gospel, there is a mental block in their head that just screams “BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN JESUS TOLD US TO REPENT??!??!??” and they go back to sleep.

  54. Holly, I too might look for that group. Thanks

  55. Most people in here are pre-tribbers. And probably most are politically conservative.

    I don’t think pre-trib belief is essential for salvation, but it clarifies much confusion. I think post-trib causes fear and is contrary to the doctrine of Christ.

    It seems that dispensationalism and Israel are topics frequently discussed.

    Cheers

  56. I have accounts on Facebook, Skype, and Discord.

  57. Quoting John the Baptist is probably not the best way to present the gospel. I think it actually causes confusion in today’s LS-dominated environment where everyone is programmed to think that “repent” refers to sin. I can identify with the urge to talk about politics. I used to go around asking people what they thought of Obama.

  58. I don’t have any social media accounts, sorry.

  59. Fair enough. The rapturees wouldn’t need to care anyways haha. The last thing I’ll say is that the gospel is the most important thing to get right. So many people talk about fighting the political/social realities society is marching towards as if they are avoidable in any way. This is all biblical prophecy, it simply will happen. The tribulation isn’t going to be a walk in the park, frankly nor will the immediate lead up to it be.

    So we need to always remember the eternal destiny of a soul is the most important thing and you’re right, people of all walks of life need to get this right, they only have one chance. Trusting Jesus alone as savior means a person wont even be around to experience the darkest times in world history.

  60. Brad, I don’t know. I would rather not use this site to speculate on who the antichrist will be.

  61. John, in relation to that quote from Keith, do you believe the Antichrist will be a US president? The shoe seems to fit nicely.

  62. Religions of all sorts – including “Christian” dominionism – stand in opposition to God’s will.

    I would like to interject the following excerpt from a comment that Keith made a few months ago.

    I also concur with John’s questioning of America as ever having been a “Christian” nation in the way many understand it. This nation was founded on the principle of religious freedom, which provides a climate in which the biblical Gospel can go forth unhindered to be freely accepted or rejected by its citizens as well as exported to other nations. Some groups with a dominionist mindset like to call America a Christian nation because of their worldly and misguided ambition to establish the kingdom of God on earth by surreptitiously merging church with state, rather than believing that Christ will establish His kingdom at the Second Coming. However, they are unwittingly helping to establish the kingdom of the antichrist rather than Christ’s kingdom, which is not of this world (John 18:36).

  63. Jason, the problem with life change as a Christian “testimony” is that it gives the impression that receiving eternal life requires allowing God to change one’s life, with the implication being that life change must occur to evidence eternal life.

  64. I also have experienced the bewilderment. Any more, even when I hear of changed hearts and transformed lives, I cringe at the possibility that underlying these words is false teaching and confusion about the heart. There is nothing good in us, and God does not change what is already there but gives us something entirely new, his incorruptible seed.

  65. Isn’t it interesting how the implication behind all the false biblical theologies (such as LS) is that the bible contradicts itself? The seeds of doubt are sown subsonsciously right away.

    Since being saved I have had people suggest to me that the bible is unreliable and needs to be added to/subtracted from. The interesting thing I have found is that when I reject those suggestions they immediately back off and change the topic. It is as if they are unwilling to just say directly to my face that the bible is wrong, they would rather say it in a coded indirect way.

    This seems to be what the false teachers do as well, they repeatedly imply their doctrine in what I would call passing statements but they would rarely sit down and in lamen’s terms just say what they mean. They like to run logical circles around you instead. One moment they say faith alone and the very next moment they say by works, rinse and repeat.

    I have been researching hypnosis (new age origins) and what I have found is that the hypnotist puts a person into a “trance” state commonly through confusing the subject momentarily, then in that moment of confusion the conscious mind is essentially disarmed and the subconscious mind receives the “sleep” command. It is the suggestion the hypnotist gives to the subject in an environment of confusion that causes the creation of the belief that “I am sleeping now”.

    I believe there is something to that in how false teachers affect people. It is sometimes called neuro-linguistic programming. Essentially talking in a certain way, with certain words and certain hand movements.

  66. Brad, you make some very good points. The Bible simply cannot contradict itself.

  67. If we have to do works to be saved, then the bible blatantly contradicts itself in many areas. The verses that clearly state it is not of works would be at total odds with the supposed verses that teach it is by works. People who subscribe to this contradictory doctrine will attempt to reconcile their beliefs by concluding that it is only some works that don’t save, while other works do save.

    From that logic, the most obvious question would be for example; which works would be the ones that save and which works would be the ones that don’t? Of course an answer is not given in the bible because the concept of faith plus works is a contradictive theology. It is then entirely left up to the subjective view of the person to decide for themselves what will save them and what won’t. This is where religion begins. One person’s perception of a sinless lifestyle might be another persons perception of a sinful lifestyle.

    Why is the bible a book of absolutes? For this very reason, to avoid contradictive mentalities. If the onus is put upon the reader to decide what is right or wrong in God’s eyes, the reader will almost certainly get it wrong, as the ways of men are not the ways of God.

    In an environment of confusion, it is incredibly tempting to just “throw up your hands” so to speak and give up trying to make sense of things. This is where Satan thrives. Why is it that so many teachers blatantly teach diametrically opposing doctrines, sometimes in the same sermon or even the same breath? Because now the listener is being told essentially that what they have just heard must make perfect sense, even if it does not, given the success or popularity the teacher has.

    I believe many people base what they believe soloely upon what is the most popular, easily accessible or socially acceptable doctrine. It becomes a matter of pure vanity, which is largely what this world system thrives on. We may know this more simply as judging a book by its cover.

    On this website and some others, there is a very healthy habit of reading the content of the book and ignoring the cover altogether, because the cover more often than not is deceptive. In a society of laziness, people just want quick answers to everything and anything that is a challenge to think about is thrown on the backburners.

    Why are there so many groups in this world who attack the bible and attempt to discredit it? This is a good place to look for assurance in what the bible says. This world is against God, so the Word of God which is contained in the bible this world would also be against. It is not enough for them to just simply yell “the bible is wrong!”, but to also establish incredibly comprehensive belief systems tailored specifically to distracting people’s attention away from what is contained in the bible.

    We see this especially in the new age movement, which is at the highest levels a series of beliefs given to certain people such as Alice Bailey and Helena Blavatsky through direct communications with demons who call themselves “ascended masters” or other names that imply credibility or honesty. These would be the same beings that people communicate with when using drugs like DMT, psychedelics, satanic rituals and ouija boards.

    The interesting thing about the new age movement is that many of it’s beliefs are actually found in world religions, such as Buddhism (meditation), Hinduism (reincarnation), Scientology (aliens or extraterrestrials), Catholicism (men poessesing supernatural powers) etc.

    The new age movement always throws Christianity under the bus, while propping up everything else. We need to ask ourselves – why is that? What are these beings so concerned about? If it is just another book, why all the hysteria surrounding it? Why is there such a social stigma in society by and large when it comes to reading the bible? Where did that stigma come from?

    What will be phased out in the coming one-world religion? Put it is this way, it certainly wont be humanism. The pride of men will be held at the highest level. The pride of men is manifested in works for salvation. It is literally the biggest issue facing professing Christianity today and this website is at the tip of the spear in that fight.

  68. Holly, just wow! Addressing the error in this person’s thinking would take a complete volume.

    I don’t think you need to “ease up” on Greg Locke. He has at least one other person mesmerized with his heretical doctrine.

  69. Holly, that is a good addition to the people who object to grace with the “what abouts? Ask them, “what about the sin in your life?”

  70. A preacher named Greg Locke, who has a website, had this on his SOF.

    “However, those who have trusted Christ are His and will obey Him and His Word. We do not believe a person can live any way they so desire and be saved….we must surrender.

    When a couple of sound believers warned people to avoid this man, this woman, (the MeDoist and MeDonist) came in to say this: (reminds me of others I’ve seen come in to this site).

    I disagree that this man is “adding to the Gospel.” The Scriptures most assuredly DO declare that a person is a new creature in Christ. “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” II Corinthians 5:17. “. . .behold all things are become new.” All means all, right? It is true that we are not automatically perfected, but a new creature in Christ Jesus means a new creature in Christ Jesus. Something is different. Something is new. This is not “adding” but rather acknowledging what we know to be truth in the Word.
    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
    Ephesians 2:10.
    If God has ordained the works, doesn’t sound “optional” to me.
    Further, while we are certain of our salvation, we are not assured that we will be free from consequence if we refuse to walk in the light which is shed on us. John the Baptist chided the Pharisees for not showing sincerity in their actions,
    “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” Matthew 3:10.
    Jesus, also, used a fruit tree to demonstrate what happens when there is “no fruit.”
    “He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.” Luke 13:6-9.
    And in the parable of the sower:
    “But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”
    Luke 8:15.
    There are consequences for a life devoid of fruit, and while we are not told precisely what, I believe it is possible that Ananais and Sapphira were examples. Even Paul expressed the possibility that if he was not obedient, he might be “disqualified.” (I Corinthians 9:27.)
    I think we need to “ease up” on Greg Locke and consider that free grace is not synonymous with “free pass.”

  71. Laughing, thinking on monkey see and monkey do.

    What about MEdontDoism?

    An old ‘friend’ shared my post with the caveat that she didn’t agree with my ‘theology’ or something to that effect. She believes she is saved because she ‘does’ DO this, or she DOESN’T do that.

    I like to tell them, ask people who know you. Your wife, your husband, or in her case, her roommates and people who ran across her. If behavior was PROOF I am pretty sure the vote wouldn’t have been positive in her favor. Thank the Lord it is not by our works, promises, things we do, things we have stopped doing that grant or help us gain eternal life…

  72. Excellent article John. I pray that somehow, someone will ‘hear’ this and understand the truth, and that the truth might set them free.

  73. Phil, I believe the Holy Spirit is drawing everyone. And, while we may be discouraged at times, we know that the gospel is the single thing most worth advancing and defending.

  74. I think what we are doing here, proclaiming and defending the gospel of grace alone, is the right approach. We see the example of how Paul defended the gospel from the LS legalists in Galatians.
    We may be discouraged and frustrated at times and think the message of salvation by grace without works is at a stalemate against the arguments of LS’rs, but remember the power of the Holy Spirit working to help change peoples minds and believe the good news.

  75. Sam, agree. Much of the blinding of people to the truth is done from pulpits.

  76. Sorry to say this but their denominations are teaching them lordship or works salvation and most people believe whatever their denominations tell them.Their minds are blinded by the very same people that claim there going to help them.SAD very SAD

  77. Jason, the MeDooism often accompanies METheism. And, sometimes it’s just accompanied by “MePromisetoDooism.”

  78. Kate, reminding ourselves of the truth of the gospel through reading God’s word is a big part of putting on the full armor of God.

    And, staying away from repetitive false teachers who misuse God’s word to corrupt the gospel is also important.

  79. MeTheism and MeDooism. Self as co-redemptrix and works for salvation.

  80. katmazdobelieve

    Johninnc.
    Without the repetition and reinforcement of the truth of Grace I would be a reed in the wind again. I need to read these things often. It builds my confidence in the promise that by simply believing I am saved.
    So Jack was right about that.
    Thanks
    Kate

  81. fryingpan, thanks for the encouragement.

    The late Jack Weaver once told me that “repitition is the Mucilage of theology.”

    (For those not familiar with that term, “Mucilage”is a type of glue.)

  82. Great new post, johninnc!

    Please be encouraged that no matter how many times the enemy whispers in your ear that you’re just rehashing the same things over and over and preaching to the choir that those are all lies and that your skill at writing and willingness to defend the gospel is very much needed by the lost as well as the saved, not to mention the confused on either side of the divide.

  83. Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Yes been pondering this in light of comments on expreacherman.com and recent challenges I have had with souls who refuse to believe Eternal life is a gift.

    Would like to ask if any would like to comment based on what Johninc posted and in the light of verses in Rom 4:4-5

    1. What is God’s Standard for righteousness?

    2. What Standard would you use to keep the standard that got declares as the standard for righteousness?
    if more than 1 standard please list at least 3 standards you are keeping to keep up with God’s Standard for righteousness.
    then also let us know how you are doing with those standards you have listed?

    Thank You
    Curtis M

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