Dr. Thomas Cucuzza, pastor of Northland Bible Baptist Church in St. Cloud, Minnesota, has written an exciting new booklet. It is entitled “The Alls of Savation: Who and What Did Jesus Die For?”
The booklet very concisely and completely proclaims the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ for all people. It also explains why the false religion of Calvinism has absolutely no support from scripture.
Please find the booklet linked below:
We believe that you will find this booklet inspirational and helpful. In addition to the online link above, the booklet will soon be available in hardcopy.
Everyone’s knee jerk reaction to that question is: no, you cannot. If you sin, you are toast. That was my way of thinking for quite awhile. The cults, MacArthur, and the mainstream Christian are all included in this mindset. That we cannot outsin God’s grace is good news. So is the invitation to enter his rest.
I found a really good tract at Victory in Grace’s website (Pastor Jim Scudder Jr.) resource store. It asks the question on the front cover; ” Can I live however I want and still go to heaven?” It’s really good because it fleshes out what a person is really trusting in to get them to heaven and then goes on to explain that, yes we can live any way we want after we’ve trusted Jesus as our Savior, BUT there will be earthly consequences. Here is the link: https://www.victoryingrace.org/product/can-i-live-however-i-want-and-still-go-to-heaven
i have a simple paper trac that carry in my wallet that Yankee Arnold uses http://www.calvaryoftampa.org/store/index.php?rt=product/product&product_id=129
I carry the Clear Gospel booklet in my Truck or vehicle and on cell phone to give out. The clear gospel booklet is my preferred option because it contains doctrine to live the Christian Life upon first receiving Christ Jesus as Saviour
Brad, it’s not really a tract, per se, I’m really partial to “The Gospel” by Ron Shea.
Can someone recommend a solid gospel track?
Brad, they are in hell, which is kind of a “holding area” until the Great White Throne Judgement, after which they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. I believe they are fully conscious and are in agony even before the Great White Throne Judgement.
Do unsaved people enter hell immediately after death? Or do they remain “asleep” until the Great White Throne judgement at the end of the millenial kingdom?
I have heard some beliefs in the past that no one is in heaven or hell right now, could I have some clarity on such statements please?
Luke, I think this passage means that certain of these people had refused to believe, even having seen the miracles firsthand. They were hardened in their disbelief.
Brad, I too have been pondering it as I watch those who justify themselves by the law, reminded me of how the letter kills. Paul talked about what the law wrought in him in Romans 7, and in Galatians we see what going back under the law created in the Galatians, they were bewitched, under bondage, biting, devouring one another, envying and worse, those in leadership were hypocrites who were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel. Living under the law, or trying to live by it doesn’t work. It’s His grace that teaches us how to live.
i’ve been seeing people ‘reformed/calvinists’ using John 12:37-40. Is there a good exposition of this passage?
also would like to add.
We have been blessed with all. Trying to keep the law for what we already have. The natural result is more knowledge of sin from the law
hath given unto us all things
2 peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
“Legalism is the mental attitude that seeks to earn or merit the blessings of God by religious rituals or good works for either salvation or santification.”
I was thinking about that today Holly. The flesh is disobedient in nature so if it is told not to do something, it only wants to do it even more. Thus, the law only gives power to the flesh.
Kate, I completely understand the fog of the lies of these ‘nice’ deceivers who are also deceived. It’s like a downhill slide when you try to be justified by the law, it is insanity and we know that trying to be justified by law actually makes us want to sin more (Rom 7).
Joanna – for sure I believe many if not all of us here feel alone at times yet grateful for the others here. I don’t know what to say except He told us it would be this way. I feel sometimes like how can it be that I might understand and all these do not ‘get’ His grace, and yet I don’t always ‘get’ it, but I believe His Word over my own feelings. The only thing we can trust. Where we fall is when we listen to men’s traditions over what His Word says in context. I am grateful for those who have respected (trembled-Is 66:2) God’s Word and carefully and honestly handled it.
Holly, I’m not sure which post you were commenting on, but as you say, much to glean.
Excellent answer from the Word Curtis (2 Peter 2; Col 2), it is serious, these are damnable heresies, but there are many who would consider us wrong for speaking against them, and haven’t considered the alternative, because of these false teachers/teachings, the way of truth is spoken evil of. We see it consistently in these last days.
Jason, I agree also with you both, they do not get the definition of repent correct.
Jim/John/Brad/Curtis – interesting conversation regarding their take on works. We are responsible for our works as believers, we are exhorted to good works throughout the epistles. There is a difference for sure between our works of the flesh and our works done walking in His Spirit. Believers are capable of both, all of us. I guess they are trying once again to say that works are automatic.
So many good comments here, it’s a blessing to just read, but I don’t want to overpower with my own comments as I can do as I just want to answer you all.
Great answer John on losing rewards vs. losing out on a reward that could have been ours.
Jason, for sure we know that works done as unto Him, He also empowers us in them even in our weaknesses. We see that through Paul’s infirmity he was able to preach the gospel to those at Galatia. I know none of us here think we can do these things on our own, but we need (as Curtis and also Jesus said) 🙂 to abide in the Vine and to continue in His Word to be disciples.
I’ll keep reading, but lots of good things to glean from these last few days.
Johninnc– I find it odd that this is lost on Wilkins (that he sounds like GTY) in statements like these. RAS asked why Wilkin didn’t retain his thinking from his previous article. To be fair, I believe that can happen to any of us. But if we were honest, we should remove any prior articles that do not line up with our current beliefs, that is, if we believe our current beliefs to be true, the old would then be wrong.
These people are confusing and seem to just want followers, and evidently aren’t concerned (enough anyways) with God’s truth being consistent and the importance of us rightly sharing/using/expounding on it. Like both of you, I find it odd and also disturbing that they both have somehow missed this (I cannot believe that they do not know), so then worse, they know about it, but may like the sheer number of their published opinions?
With James White, he seems to make himself clear. His opinion is that God ordains even the rapes that happens. I would assume he protects Muslims with the firm belief there are some Calvinists (I mean their elect) that will come out of them in the future. You are so right RAS, James White has a very high opinion of himself, but so do a lot of Calvinist apologists. I would take it further and simply say they bring the leaven of the Pharisees.
Yes Brad, the Scofield Bibles are good. I have used them for years. His notes are grace alone and it does rightly divide the word. It helps distinguish and clarify what is under the law and what is under grace alone. I would get it in the KJV or NKJV and not one of the other versions offered. In the KJV (“old Scofield” study BIble) you will be getting the original notes and not some notes that have been added on years later.
Thanks for the prayers Phil. I am thankful to have a fellowship here on this website.
Are Scofield Study Bibles good or not?
Brad, I have been reading some of your comments about searching for a true grace believing church. I too pray that you will also find the right local church fellowship. But remember as a believer you are part of us here in this Grace Oasis here at EXP. Sometimes even when you find the right church you feel like you have to navigate their structure with elder boards and pastoral staff, and even if their leadership is grace alone,that doesn’t mean that’s what the congregation believes: they may actually be LS.. In my case I have been attending this church and may have a church that I want to be a part of, but at the same time I am hesitant to commit to join this church. I see nothing wrong with attending and fellowshiping in a church, yet not actually officially “joining.” i have had a few bad experiences in the past with churches i ended up quitting. The last one I thought from the statement of faith was a grace alone. But it turned out that this IFCA church had been corrupted enough by LS MacAthurism. Even one of their elders was LS faith plus works.
The church I am presently attending I have some concerns. The pastor has quoted Francis Chan once or twice and the pastor will use the ESV for in his sermons. As you know, this is the new Calvinists favorite version.
Muslims already reason that, sad. They literally codify with their creed that they do not need a sin bearer.
Thanks for responding and giving such great support. Some of them made me laugh and it’s good to laugh over this, it’s better than weeping.
Do any of you ever feel like Elijah? Wondering how alone you are and wondering why so many bend the knee to a false god?
It has baffled me so much why these nut jobs ignore so much Scripture, they are a walking contradiction. It’s almost as if they don’t want to be saved by someone other than themselves. They think, I’m such a good savior, why would I need Jesus to do it for me?
Keep up the faith people, for it seems there are so few that do.
Lol, now that I know that the poor benefit so much from their current state I won’t ruin it by giving aid, lol, jk. 😜
One of them actually said this to me (word for word, in the same breath):
“We are saved by our works, and we are not saved by our works”
Apparently that made perfect sense to them.
I then responded to that by saying “that’s like saying the sky is blue and also red” to which they replied, “it is”.
Twilight zone levels were reaching into the extremes.
Brad, a lot of churches preach grace sometimes and POS (works) at other times.
The people go back and forth, because they’ve been confused from the pulpit and really don’t know what to believe.
What part of Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4:4-5 do these people not understand?
Is it me, or does there seem to be an idea from these people that there are two seperate salvations? One upon trusting Christ and then another on the last day if our works have been good enough?
I spoke to someone from a Hillsong church the other day who interpreted the Judgement Seat of Christ as the deciding factor between whether a person goes to hell or heaven. I told him it was actually for rewards in heaven and he paused for a second, looked at me blankly, then just kept talking.
The thing that strikes me is that they seem to never answer straight questions. If I ask them if we are saved by faith alone they say yes, but then they go into telling me how we have to be obedient in our lifestyles to Christ as well. This one particular person kept changing his position back and forth from works to faith, works to faith, etc.
At least with Catholics and other overt legalists they make it clear where they stand, lordshippers seem to want to hide their views under a mask of grace through faith alone.
Satan has devised many colourful ways to package legalism, that’s for sure.
Some awful quotes of Richard Wurmbrand come to mind. He called poverty the entranceway to heaven. He said that giving money to the poor takes away the only thing they have, their poverty itself, and robs them of heaven. Yet Voice of the Martyrs accepts your donations anyway and uses them to fund prayer labyrinths. What utter deception.
I suppose the poor get to heaven automatically according to John MacArthur because they have forsaken everything 😉
Joanna, it is scary because it is deceptive.
sounds like gentelman has been listening to Francis Chan.
Thanking the Lord for the dicernment God is giving you through His Word Joanna and you seperating unto Truth of The Gospel.
Joanna, you make some very good points that reveal the bankruptcy of this guy’s comments.
Just heard another eye rolling falsehood. It was a quote, but I’ll just say the jist.
“You will only get into heaven if you have a recommendation from the poor.”
The guy who posted it said it was a scary quote. This man is a pastor and a former professor at my college. I can’t believe I used to listen to his nonsense. How is that quote Biblical? Where does it say that? If being good is all we need then we might as well all be universalists. I don’t understand these people!! Who is he worshipping? The poor? How do the poor get into heaven? By just being themselves? I guess nothing because they got the short end of the life stick.
I was baptised in 2009 in a AoG congregation. The pastor, though very nice and believing he is in the truth, is a LS domionist. When I was baptised it wasn’t an outward showing of knowing Christ is my savior, but a visible commitment to know him as Lord over my life. That I was going to commit to living to the law. I felt like a slave, maybe because I was. My mind was muddled and foggy. I am beginning to see through it slowly though.
This site, hands down, has been the difference between religious insanity and resting in him for me.
Brad there are Gospel of Grace assemblies around the country that would baptize you. Im sure a pastor would be encouraged to hear from someone willing to travel for The Truth of The Gospel.
Brad, I’ll pray for you to find a church as I know it is hard to find one even here in the US that teaches the truth concerning the gospel
I like what John said about Hebrews 10. Drawing back to law keeping is not the same as drawing back to perdition. Yes it does affirm eternal security. The passage also mentioned before that they were sanctified despite their behavior
Brad, I don’t really think “drawing back” refers to falling into sin. I think it may have to do with giving up confidence in Jesus for eternal life (verse 35) and returning to Jewish sacrificial practices.
Please note that “my soul” likely refers to the writer of Hebrews, and not God. The writer reminds the Hebrew believers that they have believed, and have eternal life.
This passage is part of an appeal to the Hebrew believers, who were suffering persecution, to remain faithful.
Thanks for the input. So thankful God led me to this site. After seeing all the different ways legalism is packaged, it just sticks out like a sore thumb. I know that water baptism doesn’t save, I just feel kinda off about not having it done yet (after God has blessed my life so abundantly). I have my doubts about finding a biblically sound church where I live (outside US) but I shall start looking soon.
I was thinking of testing the pastors with the question: “If a person trusts in Jesus as their Saviour and is saved, but then lives a sinful life and does no good works, will they still go to heaven”? Seems like their answer to that question would paint a fine picture of their beliefs.
I found some interesting verses right at the end of Hebrews 10 that I haven’t seen before. This seems to directly teach eternal security. I didn’t see these verses in Dennis Roker’s book though so I wonder if I have interpreted it right?
Hebrews 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Is “draw back” the equivalent to “backslide”? i.e. fall into sin?
Common sense would suggest that baptism should never be by a heretic. These extreme ideas are symptomatic of the legalistic and magical approach taken to these matters. Baptism in merely three centuries was reduced to a magical incantation that conferred remission of sins and infusion of mystical substance that had nothing to do with undeserved favor. One could just was well have a wizard point his wand and pronounce, “baptizo”. It is that ridiculous. Donatists knew that something was wrong with the picture.
And yet the fear of hell also drives people to oversolemnity on the matter. One finds out that his priest denied Christ and fears that he wasn’t truly baptized, another fears sacrilege. It’s another rigged game. But where there is assurance, there is no fear. God did not give us a snake, and he is certainly not making a list and counting it twice to see whose baptism is not picture perfect.
If one knows he is saved and is not fearful of hell, he is not irrationally driven to procure an emergency baptism by a heretic. And if he surives the physical danger, he should arrange to be baptized by a minister who believes the same gospel. And if he later finds out that his minister was a scumbag, he is not fearful. Paul did not tell the Galatians that if false brethren from James had baptized them, they would need to be rebaptized.
Statement of Faith
7. The Church began with the descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and is composed of all believers in Christ. By the Holy Spirit we are all baptized into the one body of Christ. Water baptism has no part in salvation but is a testimony to the world of one’s faith and identification with his Savior Jesus Christ. Acts 1:8; I Corinthians 6:19,20; Acts 2:1-4; I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:5; Acts 10:47.
Baptism is an physical illustration identification principle of what has taken place Spiritualy.
it is important to understand Spiritual baptism.
Romans chapter 6 is completely dry.
Neither does baptism empower a soul to live or serve Jesus Christ.
We have been blessed with all spiritual blessings upon receiving Christ Jesus as Saviour He is Lord we dont make Him Lord. All of The Spiritual Blessings belong to us wether we appropriate them or not. they remain still.
its a Should by an able bodied believer
reference Theif on cross
The bearing of the character of the baptizer on the validity of baptism was a question brought up by the Donatists of early churchianity history. I am inclined to agree with Catholics on that issue. Their position is that the character of the baptizer has absolutely no bearing on the validity. There is no instance anywhere in scripture where such a question is brought up. Nevertheless, if rebaptism settles a person’s conscience, the principle of liberty would indicate that the rebaptism should be allowed. Catholics take the extreme position that even a pagan can baptize in an emergency, and this has lead to many spurious forced conversions. Since I reject sacramentalism, emergency baptism seems absurd. The thief on the cross did not need it. Infants don’t need it. They also take the extreme position that any rebaptism, even for issues of conscience, constitutes sacrilege and is a “mortal” sin.
Donatists went to one extreme, Catholics to another, and neither had charity.
I could point out that Luther agreed with Catholics about Donatists more than a thousand years later and called the latter heretics. Catholic teaching on this matter lead to persecution of Anabaptists by Catholics and Protestants.
A much more important question is whether the person being baptized was a believer. I rarely hear of believers who decided to get rebaptized because they were baptized in the SBC under their Lordship teaching. It seems that many get baptized believing a false gospel and become believers years later.
Brad, I think that’s a good idea.
I would ask them how a person goes to heaven. I want to get baptized but, aside from just going to the first place I find, I would like it to be at a church I would actually agree with doctrinally.
Brad, it would be preferable, but how would you be able to tell?
Does water baptism have to be done by someone who is truly saved for it to be valid?
Yeh Jason I have heard some make the argument that “Baptism isn’t really a work”. The mental gymnastics are astonishing. Anything we do (that our body performs) is a work.
And those who say that having faith is a work? The bible tells us that faith is different from works altogether.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
So here is a person who is working not, but still has faith? Case closed.
Those who defend works as from God remind me of Martin Luther’s pathetic excuse for baptismal regeneration, that baptism is the work of God.
As for rewards, I don’t see it as actually losing a reward but as losing out on rewards that could have been ours. When our works are tried by fire, that which is burned away is loss in the sense of lost opportunity to have received a reward for it. If a person wants more rewards then serve God more. IF you want diminished rewards spend time in sin and or on things that are worthless for eternity but that are not sin in and of themselves.
God will test our works to see what type they were. Even within the rewards we receive we may have lost out on a better one due to motives or sin or the like mixed in when we did the good works. Bottom line is to press on with the right heart attitude in Christian service. Stay in close fellowship with the Lord laying aside that which gets in the way. It is a constant moment by moment choice.
Also, the rewards are basically for us to use to honor the the Lord laying them at His feet. I don’t want to offer him garbage when He did so much for me.
along with what Jim said.
Hyper-Dispensationalism and others plays the “Christ living through them” to the extreme
failing to recognize thats its our Abiding in Christ Jesus as believers the Holy Spirit produces all things that count for rewards.
They also attempt to use Justification Truth to empower a soul to live the Christian Life and try to bypass the Holy Spirit in the energy of the flesh.
We can easily do things in the energy of the flesh.. example Tithing. Tithing requires no direction from Holy Spirit.
By Grace we our to seek the Lord about giving. but a rule is easier We prefer rules over relationship.
Brad, I don’t really think of it in terms of how much failure would cause someone to lose eternal rewards, but rather what would result in the receipt of rewards.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15:
 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Puppet theology, a fitting term! Yeh now that I think about it, it is a very calvinistic type of view, falls right in with those who believe that faith is a gift from God.
On another topic, I was wondering if there is any specification in Scripture as to what causes a person to lose eternal rewards? How much failure in one’s life would result in a loss of rewards? Is it just something we have to wait to find out?
I have seen people claim their works are from the Holy Spirit doing them therefore in their reasoning they are not working for salvation but letting God work for salvation through them. I call it puppet theology. It goes hand in hand with God making them believe, repent, etc. The problem is for them that Christ already paid it all and they can’t receive eternal life unless they repent (change their mind about works and trust Christ alone based on the gospel of His finished work, burial, and resurrection).
Brad, I agree.
It is similar to people who change the definitions of “grace,” “faith,” “belief,” and “gift.”
They read what the Bible says, but they don’t want to let go of the works.
I am thinking they do this to try and reconcile their contradictive beliefs. “If it’s not my own works then it’s okay to trust in them”. Almost like a part of them knows what they believe is unbiblical.
Brad, yeah I’ve seen this. The people pushing this view are still looking to their works for assurance of eternal life, which is not biblical.
I’ve seen a few instances of those who believe faith plus works, essentially claiming that their works are not their own works, but the works of the Holy Spirit. Have any of you seen this?
Belief in absolute predestination is another thing they have in common.
I don’t think James White is a dominionist but he is definitely not a futurist premillennialist either. It’s my opinion that the common thread between White and the so called moderate Muslim scholars he engages with is “scholarship”. White is a respecter of brain power and defends the moderate Muslims against critics of Islam that take the Koran to mean what it says. He does not take scripture at face value and imposes a theological grid over the text therefore he respects the Muslims who are able to deny the plain meaning of their own “scripture”. One huge problem is that the Muslims may be doing so by employing taqiyya while White is impressed by what he sees as mental energy used in reinterpretation (system building). That is truly how I see it.
They share the definition of the word repent, along with a difference in application. One does not believe that the word repent has anything to do with being saved, the other thinks it makes all the difference between genuine and false faith.
The both stumble over the biblical definition definition of “repent”
Wilkin quotes along with John Piper and all the other ist’s ism’s and ite’s are meant to be head scratchers. They are using “loaded language” attempting to get souls stuck in a loop in their thinking. That keeps them comming back for more and to buy their books. “making merchandise of souls” “through philosophy and vain deciet.”
Lordshipers have one thing in common with Islam, dominionists another. I wonder if James White is a dominionist.
BTW, White did not merely meet with this Iman but called him his mentor concerning understanding Arabic and Islam. He defends him as “moderate”. I wonder if White feels “moderate” Christians are really Christians.
Holly mentioned James White in an earlier comment. I just stumbled onto a new episode of a not so new controversy involving White’s interaction with Muslim scholars and clerics. White has always (seemingly) been protective of the Muslims he interacts with often to the point of rivalry against other Christian’s (and non Christian groups like Jihad Watch) that are polemic in their denouncements of Islam. Well apparently he is being called out for meeting with an Iman that has (per the Koran) called Christians “excrement”. White defends him(self?) by saying “he never called me that”. He (White) also has some harsh words against American southerners (moral equivalence).
When ever asked what I think of J. White I always say “There’s never been a mere man born as smart as James White…thinks he is”.
RAS, thanks for the update.
It is interesting that Wilkin attributes this to what he was taught at seminary (DTS). I’m glad he is at least open to the truth, despite the indoctrination that he received.
The article from which the unconditional election quotes came is still out there on both the GES website and Charlie Bing’s Gracelife site.
I saw a subsequent article by Wilkin tonight (also available on both GES and Gracelife) entitled “The Doctrine of Divine Election Reconsidered: Election to Service, Not to Everlasting Life.”
In the newer article, Wilkin concludes with: “Just as the L in TULIP, Limited Atonement, is not true, neither is the U in
TULIP, unconditional election, true. Calvinists say the five points hang together. And if they do, then the fact that the L is
not true should give us a clue that the U is not true either.”
Like you, I find it odd that both Wilkin and Bing keep competing articles on their sites by the same author, on the same topic, that are both gospel-centric and diametrically opposed.
I agree with Holly, those Wilkin quotes are head scratchers. I found the article that the quotes come from (July 1989). It appears that Wilkin’s view has changed. Here are some quotes from a 2012 article he wrote.
“My thesis is that election is not about eternal destiny, but about service and eternal reward. God has chosen a nation, a city, a Person, and many individuals to serve and glorify Him both now and in the life to come.”
“The doctrine of election, even minus limited atonement, didn’t make too much sense to me when I was taught it in seminary. But most of my professors taught that this was a mystery which we could not fully understand. All are able to believe in Jesus, I was taught (contrary to the strict Calvinist understanding of election), since Christ died for all (DTS taught unlimited atonement). However, only the elect will believe.”
“I remember thinking something like, Well, this makes the most sense of anything I’ve heard till now. However, I keep studying and will remain open. Possibly there is a better explanation of what this doctrine of election is. Over the past 10 to 15 years I’ve been studying the Biblical references to God’s choosing and electing people. What I have found is far different from what I was taught.”
Looks like Wilkin has repented of his former position on election. Why does he keep the article on line without linking to the newer article? I don’t know.
Holly, MacArthur basically thinks the same thing as Robert Wilkin.
Wow. They need to change it to “Grace o Who”?
A friend of mine wrote John MacArthur’s ‘church’ and I think you’d all find their response interesting. What is typical of proof-texters and men/women who twist the Scriptures is that they do NOT rightly use God’s Word. Notice how they misuse Titus 2 and actually change what the truth of it says.
MY FRIEND SENT THIS:
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:41 PM
Subject: The Gospel according to Paul
““God’s grace is the originating cause of regeneration; the sinner’s faith is the immediate effect. Unfortunately, many Christians think and speak as if it worked the other way around – as if a free-will act of faith from the sinner were the determining factor that enables God to bestow His saving grace. In other words they think faith is the cause and regeneration is the effect.””
Is that grace of God that is the originating cause of regeneration upon everyone? Then, if not, upon whom is God’s grace originating the cause of regeneration available or upon whom does it encompass?
Thank you for writing Grace to You. The grace of God that leads to the salvation of a sinner is only bestowed on those whom God chose before the foundation of the world to be the special recipients of redemption (cf. Ephesians 1:3–6). The rest of the sinners—the ones God did not choose for redemption—remain in their sins and will face the wrath of God eternally.
Thanks again for writing.
Sincerely in Christ,
Grace to You|1-800-55-GRACE|gty.org
But the Bible says He offers/brings salvation to all men, while these wolves lie and shut up the Kingdom of Heaven to others.
John & Jason, Dillow is known and respected by these guys for his teaching on ‘Outer Darkness’, defining it as a place of punitive damage for believers who have not lived faithfully. What people fail to see is that they have been unable to reconcile the verses (that people often use for their loadship proof texts), so instead they define Kingdom Age preaching (which I believe speaks to Israel as a nation), …to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came..(Rom 9:4-5)
They were elected to be God’s servant, He chose a people for Himself to do certain things. As the elect, not all Israel was believing (Not all Israel is Israel), but there is the remnant who will believe. They will be the believing servants, the others will be the wicked (non-righteous) servants. Since the Tribulation is God turning His attention back to the last seven years of Daniel’s 70 x 7 prophecy, this is how I understand it. Of course I have so much more than this, but it would take pages upon pages 🙂
Many kinds of God’s elect. Jesus was elect, so are angels mentioned as being elect, so was Israel, in fact in Isaiah 45, Israel is mentioned again as God’s servant (as is seen so many times in the OT), as well as Jesus as the elect, also Cyrus here is listed as God’s anointed. Anointed to what?
We have to ask, chosen to/elect to _____________. Nowhere does it suggest TO receive the gift of eternal life, but those who believe, they are called the elect, they are also said to be elected TO _______________? In the New Testament, there is not a suggestion (possibly one) that the ‘elect’ mentioned (through Romans 9) is anyone but Israel.
Romans 11 is a little more confusing as it speaks on the election of Israel, those who have not bowed the knee to Ba’al. It is not speaking to being chosen to salvation, but foreknowledge of those who will believe, (again as I see it). But to the church, it never suggests you are chosen to be preregenerated in order to be able to believe the gospel.
And, most of the Dallas Theological Seminary crowd are either tolerant of, ir sympathetic to, the unconditional election error.
And this is what “anything but MacArthur” gets us: more of the same.
Curtis, Wilkin says he believes that Jesus paid for everyone’s sins – elect and non-elect alike. Wilkin says he believes that God draws everyone – elect and non-elect. Wilkin says he believes that anyone – elect and non-elect alike – can believe in Jesus.
But, Wilkin says only the elect will believe, and that all of the elect will believe. That is the “U” (unconditional election) in the poison TULIP of Calvinism.
Keith had it right: a person is one of the elect because he has believed. A person does not believe because he is one of the elect.
this is why I am am careful not to use the phrase “Free Grace”
im a 0 point calvanist thats not an arminian..
A key point calvanism misses is Jesus died for All the World’s sins. All in Heaven and All in lake of fire.
The Elect is always referenced to a believer.
Predestination is to a eternally secure believer bound to future Glorification.
There is only 1 sin Jesus can not pay for
all souls to lake of fire are going there because of 1 sin not because they are sinners.
A rejected Saviour’s Love Christ Jesus payment of sin debt rejected boils, fuels, empowers the eternal lake of fire.
a fire that burns but does not consume.
Jason, I think it is more likely they moved from grace to unconditional election, to inevitability of good works, to crossless gospel, and to redefinition of repentance (turn from sin).
Dillow appears to be an outlier in outright LS.
A nonbeliever must admit his sin to God, aacknowledge he is wrong, and be willing to seek a new way of life.
My commment: willingness to seek a new way of life changes the terms of the gospel from a gift to a trade. Under this false doctrine, one’s assurance of eternal life would necessarily be based on the genuineness of his willingness to seek a new way of life (with no attendant definition).
Has the GES gone full circle? Lordship -> free grace -> crossless -> kingdom exclusion -> lordship. Just wow. The GES has really left us.
Jason, Dillow is also LS.
Liars are included. Thanks for reminding me. And this dovetails right into the kingdom exclusion hogwash that Dillow teaches.
Jason, if homosexuality were a “kingdom disqualified,” then so would every other sin be a “kingdom disqualifier.”
See Revelation 21:27.
Jason, the Southern Baptists have had an ongoing battle between full-fledged Calvinists and Lordship “salvationists” for a long time. They are both on the same side.
See article linked below:
It just occurred to me that if homosexuality is a kingdom “disqualifier”, getting one’s father drunk and committing incest (really a form of rape) would disqualify as well. Where would that leave Lot and his two daughters? They don’t think logically on that.
How many anti-Calvinists are really one point Calvinists because they have not rejected Perseverance (POS). Lordship “salvation” is Calvinism’s fifth point. I was until a few months ago a one pointer who believed the first point, but then I found out about the “rapist” statements, and I realized that Calvinism is “totally depraved” as a system.
Jason, that not only seems to imply Lordship “salvation,” it is Lordship “salvation.” I would stay away from that site.
A person is one of the elect because he believes, he does not believe because he is one of the elect. The Calvinist lives the Christian life to assure himself that he is one of the elect. Consequently, he doesn’t believe that the promise of eternal life is available for all and eternal life freely given to all who believe (John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40. 6:47). Thus, he cannot claim it for himself by faith (assuming he did not believe and then fall into error). So yes, one’s view of election certainly does affect one’s view of salvation.
Gone are the days when I thought Spurgeon was quotable, thanks largely for this site. He is exposed as the prince of lordshippers.
Now, that site I mentioned (truthonfire) has a questionable section “The Four Entrances” in their presentation of the gospel, which I take to be their statement of faith. One of the “entrances” is Jesus entering a believer’s heart. They refute Calvinism, but they are not as clear againt lordship. In dealing with homosexuality, they teach that some sins are kingdom disqualiers. That seems to imply lordship.
jason, Spurgeon was BAD news! He taught turn from sin for eternal life. He taught perseverance of the saints (POS). He was a dyed in the wool Calvinist and Lordship “salvationist.”
Huh? That’s a head scratcher (Wilkin’s comment). Sometimes these guys are so darn ‘intelligent’ they talk themselves into figuring out God’s ways and thoughts by assigning it to a ‘mystery’ and they ignore perfectly literal Scripture so that they can sound scholarly. I’m so very tired of it.
Sorry Bob, but even though I would be nothing in your estimation I’d have to heartily disagree, ‘one’s view of election’ DOES determine his or her view of the Gospel.
Wouldn’t one’s view of election deny the power of godliness?
Let me explain. A Calvinist believes you are elected to salvation, to heaven or hell, before you have ever believed. So, they cannot believe the gospel is the ‘power of God unto salvation’ because in their theological construct, being pre-regenerated (they don’t like that word), would have to replace the gospel as the power. You would HAVE to be regenerated FIRST (pre) before you could believe, therefore the gospel would then be powerless without pre-regeneration.
What a bunch of hogwash… tired of these ‘grace’ (not) talking heads, compromising or outright lying about the truth. To be straightforward about their ‘truth’, they’d have to say ‘wait for it’.
Calvinism leads a person to be uncertain about at least two things: that he is truly saved, and that Jesus really died on a cross for him personally. Calvinism leads to both lordship and a crossless gospel.
An article on Truthonfire, “Calvinism: A Mental Disorder”, says that Spurgeon had taught a POS gospel of promise sans provision.
Who made this statement?
There is a mystery here. Somehow it works out perfectly that everyone God sovereignly elects freely chooses to trust in Christ.
The statement was made by Robert Wilkin of the “Grace Evangelical Society.”
My comment: If this isn’t Calvinism, I don’t know what is.
Elsewhere, in the same article, Wilkin says: This is because we do not feel that one’s view of election determines his or her view of the Gospel.
My comment: I vehemently disagree. Wikin’s view is the “U” (unconditional election) in the false Calvinist “TULIP.” If someone is unconditionally elected to receive eternal life, then eternal life cannot be a gift. A gift is something that can be accepted or refused.
No wonder GES has descended into further error. Why would Wilkin argue against Lordship “salvation,” but in favor of unconditional election? If unconditional election is true, it doesn’t matter what anyone’s position on the gospel is!
Grace Institute Pastor Rosker teaches on that question
class number 34
they didn’t want to know the God they knew.
they want to know a god that is safe of their own imagination.
rom 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
(they didn’t want to know the God they knew)
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
And that resistance is the soul choosing to go the way of the flesh, rather than the way of the Spirit’s conviction.
In the days leading up to trusting in Christ I was constantly weighing up two options: one was going off to the Catholic church (that I was raised in) to do works to get saved or to simply trust Christ’s works on the cross to get saved. The verses I had read from the bible (especially the book of John) allowed me to make the right decision, thank God.
I have been reading a book on eternal security, it is amazing how many clear and emphatic passages there are in the bible that a person is eternally secure. Legalists really have to throw out a large portion of the bible’s teachings in order to hold onto their erroneous beliefs.
Brad,yes. The drawing ministry of the Holy Spirit is resisted by most of mankind. It is not irresistible.
Okay. Yeh I was referring to the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin, would be the same for all people saved and unsaved. Even when a person hears gospel, the Holy Spirit has worked through God’s Word to bring that person to put their faith in Christ.
Brad, the Bible says that the Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement (John 16:8-11). So, I don’t know how to differentiate that conviction between believers and non-believers.
The Bible also says that faith comes by hearing the word of God. So, reading/hearing the gospel seems indispensable. I think many people need someone to help explain the gospel to them.
That is true johninnc, but can the natural man come to believe/understand the gospel on his own? My view has been the Holy Spirit has to perform a work of conviction in a person first. I am interested what your view is on this.
Brad, the only thing is, prior to believing in Jesus as Savior, the natural man is all there is. So, the natural man can hear and believe the gospel itself.
John WI, yes he saw a lot in his lifetime from reformed teaching, and departed from it into atheism. I don’t know how much his testimony went into that, but Jack was firm about the error in reformed theology, on that I am very thankful as I watch people compromise who came from the same college he did. Very sad. I’ve had conversations with a couple of them, I can only hope that they might consider this thing Jesus called leaven, and they somehow call unity.
One accused Jack of working for Satan (because he spoke against Luther and I think it was Spurgeon and another popular one who escapes me (from the other side of the fence of Calvinism) although they have the bond of POS. (oh, Wesley). Anyhow, Jack stood against it even on Facebook until the end. Many people erased and/or deleted his comments (I know because I was in a few of these conversations with him). Jack cared deeply for the truth, not many around these days who don’t compromise, but if you don’t, you get called names and Jack experienced it like all of us have.
I remember one conversation with a young man who was hanging out with the likes of the Billy Graham crusade and so forth, in order to promote his evangelism tool. Didn’t go anywhere, because I guess they feel their way is better than what is written, and they love to cry ‘legalism’ if you should use the Word to warn about the leaven…
To this day I am thankful for his firm stand, and for John’s and for others here who understand the difference and are wary as Jesus told us to beware.
The reason that the majority of people trust in their works to get to heaven, really can be summed up in a single verse:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The flesh can never and will never see the true meaning of God’s Word, so many false interpretations abound, all of which appeal to the pride of the flesh (works). The true gospel of God is specifically tailored to not interest the flesh whatsoever.
I was having a bit of trouble for a time understanding why so many people get such an important matter (eternal destiny of their souls) so wrong. Surely the truth isn’t that far in the minority, right?
Then I remembered when Jesus told us that many pass through the wide gate to destruction and few pass through the narrow gate to heaven. What is popular in this world is popular for a reason, because it is a lie and Satan purposefully made it popular. Most people trust their works, few trust God’s works.
When I was struggling with sin, I was feeding and giving strength to my flesh, which caused the carnal mind (of my flesh) to have a sway in the way I was thinking and seeing things. I was being pushed towards looking at my works, because that is all the flesh can understand! The flesh will never understand (the things of the Spirit of God) that I have been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone!
Brad, very well said.
It’s just as impossible for a saved person to work their way into hell, as it is for an unsaved person to work their way into heaven.
JohnWI, Jack’s summary testimony does not go into a lot of detail about his Calvinist upbringing, but he made mention of it in many of his comments over the years.
I didn’t know Jack Weaver came out of a Calvinist background. Does he have his testimony about that experience available to read somewhere? That would be a good read. I know, I have a friend that was a teacher at New Tribes, who stands for, (as Curtis would say) freely by grace and He said he came out of LS, which surprised me too. So, some are being delivered!
Very thorough article Jim Floyd, I know I read it before, but saving it to read tomorrow. I reflect on how Jack came out of a Calvinist background. May some be delivered, that is my prayer, I know it is yours and others here. And also may those who preach it to others have their mouths stopped. It’s a doctrine when people honestly take it to their logical conclusion make God the one who is blinding people from the gospel. Thanks for sharing it again. Hope you share some of your Bible studies from church on your blog.
Holly’s article really does explain a lot of it. The bottom line is that though God draws all men through Christ, He does expect us to point others to Christ through the proclamation of the gospel. In that sense, yes, the drawing would be more effective than just general revelation (the creation around us etc). This is why we need to go into all the world and not only that but making sure that when we do that our gospel is the correct one.
I have looked at the verses that people use to try to support Calvinism and they don’t add up especially when examined in their contexts and compared with other scriptures.
I wrote this post a while back. It was my review of all of the verses that a Calvinist site used to support their view on election.
Henry – If I may, Calvinism draws support from Scripture by lifting proof texts out of their context. Most Calvinists are unwilling to talk to you beyond their list of proof texts which do not make their case, instead it makes God out to be a monster. The proof is in the pudding of those that take it to it’s obvious conclusion, i.e., James White. He had to admit in his theological construct, God propels the rapist to rape an innocent child/woman. Now you may be a Calvinist that doesn’t admit that their theology makes a monster our of God. Some just say God can do what he wants and prove it by proof texting again regarding Him creating evil (in KJV rendering). The problem with take these Scriptures and using them as they do, when you bring multitudes of Scriptures/passages, etc. to the discussion to just disprove their understanding of one verse, they frequently cast God’s Word behind their backs (Ps 50:16-17). They do not tremble at God’s Word (Is 66:2) but seem to with men like Calvin, Luther, Augustine or Spurgeon.
One conversation with a pastor I had, I answered him regarding God’s character. I used probably upwards of 30 Scriptures yet I did not reference them. When I was done he mocked me and told me I ‘sounded like Brian McLaren)’ and he lol’ed with his audience. I then referenced all the passages and told him it was the Word of God. My only point is that I pray you will consider His Word over men’s theological systems (1 Cor 4:6).
Henry, thanks for swinging by.
I don’t understand how you could think Calvinism was true, but then not think that the “opposite view” was false.
I have explained in my email to you why we believe that Calvinism is false. If you would like to promote Calvinism, there are plenty of forums for you to do that. This is not one of them. This is an oasis of grace.
“It also explains why the false religion of Calvinism has absolutely no support from scripture.”
That’s rather unfortunate sentiment. It first viciously labels, and then validates the attack by proclaiming that Calvinism has “absolutely no support from scripture”. Well, Calvinism certainly has some support from scripture. And even though I would say that it is the truth of the scripture, I wouldn’t even think to proclaim opposite view as “false religion that has absolutely no support from scripture.” Let alone to proclaim it publicly.
What we can be certain about is that the Word is the means by which God has chosen to draw the unreached:
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14
Cucuzza’s pamphlet is particularly good because it emphasizes that the atonement is for all human beings BUT justification (being made righteous before God) takes place one person at a time when that person believes that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ – the atonement – happened for him.
17) was relevant, and the list was encyclopedic. Gives me much to think and pray about. Corrects me of the bad example I have made in the past.
Jason, Holly wrote a good article a while back on how God draws everyone. Please see below:
I guess that will have to satisfy me. Once again, my thoughts will regress if I am not careful. I wish to keep my mind clear.
Jason, I’m not sure how God draws all men to Christ, but the Bible says that He does.
I try not to worry about the how, and to keep the message as clear as I possibly can.
I have a question: if God draws all men, and there are no exceptions, then how does he draw the unreached? And if God draws the unreached, and the unreached can respond, wouldn’t inclusivism be true in some sense? If God only draws through the hearing of the Word, then the unreached are not drawn. If God draws through nature and conscience, then it follows that God does not draw the unreached as strongly as he draws those who hear the Word, since the Word is clearer and produces positive response in some. The thought that God is drawing all men causes me to hesitate to judge the unreached, since a few might be groping for God. Some teach that God responds to seekers by giving them the light of Christ. This brings me back to a quandary that I have pondered before and ponder yet again. Maybe I won’t understand this until I’m in heaven and see the justice of God.
I have been to several classes taught by Dr. Cucuzza at the Quentin Road Chicago Grace Conference. I think he gave a session on the “Alls” of salvation there.
Tom the word all…sounds like good news thanks for the booklet.