Lordship Salvation: Southern Baptist Conventional Wisdom

By johninnc

Isaiah 55:8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

With the US major party conventions in the immediate forefront of our political calendar, I thought it would be a good time to focus on another convention: one of so-called “evangelicals – the Southern Baptist Convention.

I think it is fair to say that each of the major political parties tries to co opt religion, and vice versa, often for cynical purposes.

Following are recent headlines regarding internal and external politics within the SBC. The first relates to the prospective alignment of political and religious leaders.

Trump taps outgoing Southern Baptist head for religious board (from “The Tennessean”)

Excerpt from the article:

Ronnie Floyd, the immediate past president of the Southern Baptist Convention, will join dozens of other conservative Christian leaders offering counsel to Donald Trump as part of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee’s new religious advisory board.

My comment: Floyd’s church adheres to the “Baptist Faith and Message,” which has a doctrinally aberrant view of the gospel. Guys like Floyd may help Trump tap into the religiously affiliated conservative voters in America, but what Floyd and the SBC are selling is not Biblical Christianity.  This is simply an attempt to forge a Faustian bargain between political and religious leaders.

Next, we will move to a headline regarding political wrangling within the SBC.

Calvinism Not to Blame for Southern Baptist Decline, JD Greear Says (from “The Christian Post”)

J.D. Greear is a false teacher that we have discussed at length at ExPreacherman. The fact that Greear would be in contention for the leadership of the SBC is sad, but telling. Equally sad is that his rivals also represent false theology.

The SBC is a mosh pit of competing false theology, as set forth in the following ExPreacherman article: SBC False Theology

Following are some of the more interesting, and outlandish quotes from the Christian Post article:

In an interview with the Christian Post last Thursday, Greear, pastor of Summit Church in Durham, North Carolina, said it doesn’t matter how many “points” of Calvinism one holds because “Jesus gave every one of us the Great Commission, and if we’re not carrying it out, that’s just plain unfaithful.”

My comment: Greear is correct that if we are not carrying out the Great Commission we are not being faithful. But, none of the five points of Calvinism is true. And, changing the simplicity of Christ into false Calvinist/Lordship “salvation” tenets is NOT carrying out the Great Commission.

And, here is a quote from Dr. Chuck Kelley, president of New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary:

Lostness in North America is having a bigger impact on Southern Baptists than Southern Baptists are having on lostness. Put another way: The world is having a bigger impact on the behavior of Southern Baptists than we are having on the behavior of the world. In addition to the decline in baptisms, we are down in membership, down in worship attendance, and down in Bible Study attendance

My comment: This is absolutely astounding. Does Kelley really believe that “lostness” is based on behavior?

And, finally, one more quote from Greear:

“We only have so much ‘bandwidth’ as a Convention, so we should seek to be known for the Gospel and the Great Commission, not for a particular stance regarding Calvinism. What unites us is so much greater than what threatens to divide us. We are united by a Gospel too great and a mission too urgent to let any lesser thing stand in our way,” Greear said.

My comment: Choosing unity versus truth? How very sad! Just what is the “mission” of the SBC? Is it to reach the world for Christ, or is it to remain large, and politically relevant?

The next article might give us a good indication.

Southern Baptists are going to need a bigger tent (from “Religious News Service”)

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (RNS) The Southern Baptist Convention was so famously insular for so long that it earned its own joke about members believing they’re the only ones in heaven…

 But over the past decade that began to change:

 They began reaching out to other evangelical churches and to Roman Catholics on issues of common interest, a collaborative spirit that landed three Southern Baptists in top leadership roles at nondenominational evangelical universities…

My comment: What the Southern Baptists have in common with Roman Catholics is works for salvation theology. This is nothing new. It is just that the world’s religions are coalescing, as is prophesied in scripture.

And, here is a quote from Mike Glenn, pastor of the 10,000-member Brentwood Baptist Church in Tennessee:

“Several years ago, when we were so actively politically engaged, there were times when statements would be made by Southern Baptist leaders, and we would have to say, ‘They don’t represent us,’” Glenn said. “I think there was a sobering up about the realities of the political process. The Southern Baptist Convention had put a lot of eggs in the conservative Republican political system and got very little in return.”

My comment: What kind of “return” were they seeking? In my view, this statement betrays the latent – or blatant – dominionist view that is held by so many Calvinist/Lordship “salvationists.”

My purpose in writing this article was not to delve into partisan politics. Rather, it is a continuation of my call to Christians within churches affiliated with the SBC to understand the damage that this group is doing to the advance and defense of the gospel. It is also to introduce and explain the gospel to those Southern Baptists, and others, who may have never heard, or never understood, the truth of how to have eternal life.

If you are a Christian and belong to an SBC church, I have two words of advice: GET OUT!

And, if you would like to get past the “conventional wisdom” and learn what God has to say about how to have eternal life, please click here: The Gospel







96 responses to “Lordship Salvation: Southern Baptist Conventional Wisdom

  1. Daniel – regarding the trumpet sound, this may encourage you.

    I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: Rev 1:10-11a

    After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Rev 4:1

  2. He is replacing Steve Gaines.

    Here is a an interesting quote, from Ed Stetzer, executive director of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College:

    Think about how Pope Francis, depending who you ask, hasn’t really changed Catholic doctrine – but he has put a different face on that. Greear is sort of a new generational face.

    My comment: Stetzer is correct – nothing new for the SBC, just a new face on an old false gospel.

  3. Greear is replacing Mohler?

  4. Yesterday, J.D.Greear was elected President of the SBC.

    The hardening of the SBC to the gospel continues.

    Greear is the pastor of Summit Church in Raleigh, NC.

    It is ironic that Summit does not include the word “Baptist,” and that it does include the word “Church.”

  5. Chas, we have featured him in some articles over the past few years.

    He’s LS, so he has huge appeal.

  6. I never heard of J.D. Greear, so I checked his website. He seems to have… problems. Doctrinally, that is.

  7. I just read that J.D. Greear is the favorite to be voted president of the SBC at the convention going on this week.

    What a sham.

  8. I went there and was stunned. I have also wondered about Stanley. His gospel seemed so clear in his book on eternal security. But then I read what Michael Patrick Bowen had to say about him.

  9. Jason, Ryrie took fire from MacArthur, but was lauded by MacArthur for his analysis of James 2:24. Please see link below to a previous comment.


  10. Reflecting on the comment by Curtis, I remember that when I was confused, I became familiar with scores of popular teachers, some sounder than others. As I learned that Word of Faith, denial of the Trinity, and other outlandishness were not the only problems, every one of the populars were exposed as promoting error. The biggest error of them all is LS. It is surprising that some names who were associated in my mind with a clear gospel are also exposed as LS. Ryrie’s name is especially puzzling, as he is one who took fire from MacArthur.

  11. Daniel, I think there is a trumpet that sounds that coincides with the rapture (1 Corinthiams 15:52).

  12. Hey John. When The Rapture Occurs, Will There Be A Trumpet Sound Just Before We’re Caught Up?

  13. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Heb 4:9-10

  14. God Bankrupted heaven and or put it all in/on the Person of His Son Christ Jesus who paid for all sin for all time and is victoursly seated at the right hand of God making intersession for us.

    Now if a soul would desire to know Truth God will see it done Via Holy Spirit.
    We only need be available
    by enjoying Christ Jesus through the Word of God.

    Tony Evans and any popular radio and TV pastor’s should be avoided. in 99.99 cases if they are popular there is error in the message.
    FALSE Teaching will affect and infect a soul no matter if you could pin the ears back of a Jahova Wittness with The Truth of The Gospel or witnees to 100 souls a month. False doctrine can knock you out.
    because our hearts are treacherous and loves the idea of Helping God out to live the Christian Life. That we can have a part in our Salvation.
    God didn’t ask us to do anything but Yeild to Holy Spirit.
    driving Truck the passed 2 years the number one problem on highways is Yielding.
    next time you see accident on highway. look for a yeild sighn. most time a yeild sighn is within 2 miles.

  15. Jason, agree that false teachers make it complicated in more ways than one.

    It’s all about frustrating grace.

  16. My point being that the false teachers make it complicated in more ways than one. Of course I don’t believe that being in a church is required. I was reflecting on Keith’s Nov 29 post. It’s hard enough that many do not hear. But for those who hear and believe, it need not be made any harder. This is one of the ways Hank Hanegraaf confused me, but I’m over that now.

  17. Jason, being in a local church is not a requirement for having eternal life.

    I don’t think that every Christian necessarily believed the gospel the first time he heard it. Some may have needed to have someone explain what the gospel isn’t (turning from sins, etc.), before they could understand and believe the gospel. After all, Satan’s activity in removing seed that is sown can be by preemptively teaching false gospels – most often through so called “churches.”

    However, all of those who have eternal life have heard, and eventually believe, the gospel.

    2 Corinthians 4:3-4:

    [3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

  18. Blind leading the blind into the ditch…

  19. So what about a person who has never heard the gospel? You’ve heard this before, is he automatically condemned? You probably have an anwer to that question, in the form of the understanding that accepting the general revelation leads to receiving the opportunity to believe the gospel. Tony Evans has a different view. But add this twist: the lost soul actually hears the gospel exactly once. It includes the cross, the whole content. He believes. The missionary moves on to another community, and the reached soul never finds a church. So he is still lost because he is not in THE local church, the only ordained means of reaching him? This is getting ridiculous.

    Or take Wilkin’s island analogy. But this time the message that washes up comes with the content of the gospel. It even includes the burial and appearances, so that even Martuneac cannot find a defect. It has enough of the context that frames the gospel that the man stranded can understand it, and he believes the promise. But the church is not mentioned, and even if it were, he cannot find a church. So this man is still lost because he is not discipled in a local church? He probably doesn’t even know to pray.

  20. that gospel presentation that is not the Gospel
    is an example of a soul spiritualy drunk on legalism.
    incoherent batch of words strung together that keeps a soul lost and stumbling around over what they do not know.
    that is sad

  21. fryingpan, these religions are like NASCAR – they make up rules as they go.

  22. Spitting nails . . .

  23. Keith, wow!

    Very sad. And, Keller isn’t even a Southern Baptist. But, he is a Calvinist.

  24. I recently came across the following on a website which belongs to an SBC affiliated church in my area:

    The local church is THE method that the Scripture describes for reaching and discipling “all the world”. [Tim] Keller summarizes it this way, “Only a person who is being ‘evangelized’ in the context of an on-going worshipping and shepherding community can be sure of finally coming home into vital, saving faith.

    My comment: According to Keller, it seems that salvation is a process which is imparted to the sinner by the church rather than being instantaneously received by faith in Christ.

    The road from the SBC to the RCC is short indeed.

  25. “The fact that he was a Roman citizen would exempt him, under Roman laws, from death by lingering torture, in the forms in which it was inflicted on many of his Christian brethren.”

    it is Tradition /History that i drew from of how Paul died. scriptures do not say.
    also Nero being the monster he was would of excuted Paul as he choose.

  26. Curtis, paul got decapitated?

  27. gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    no argument about it Calvanism /Arminism and all the other ist’s, ism’s, and ites’s are all part of “this present evil world” there is nothing more worth while than to contend for “the Truth of The Gospel” offereing souls the free gift of eternal life by grace through faith by beliving that christ Jesus died for the ungodly and that qualifies me to receive that payment.
    anything that distracts a beliver soul from their perfect postion in Christ is from the pit and does not please God. For in Christ Jesus God is well pleased.

    you know if Paul would of just backed off a little and not argue for the simplicity that is in Christ. He may have kept his head..

  28. remember2pray, I hope you might consider praying and searching the Scriptures to see what it declares regarding the defense of the gospel and contending for the faith once delivered. That is what is done here. Jesus thought it was important enough to declare the only way to be saved. So did Paul, Peter, John, Phillip and other writers and those written about in the Scripture. They also spent time in warning. Remember Paul warning day and night for three years in tears? And that was to elders. Why? Because he knew that ravening wolves would come in and even some from among them would speak perverse things. We also were warned in the end there would be a great falling away from the faith. We must be ever so sure that the gospel is contended for and His grace (the Bible tells us) has appeared to all men, not some. In Christ.

  29. remember2pray, Calvinism is an affront to the gospel and to the nature of God Himself.

    We will not allow it to be promoted here.

    Thanks again for stopping by!

  30. In the end, salvation requires that you “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”. I don’t care if you believe that you made that choice on your own or if you believe that the Holy Spirit “irresistibly” pulled you there. I care about whether or not an individual recognizes their need for a savior and places that trust in the Jesus Christ.

  31. remember2pray, thanks for commenting.

    Do I really think it’s worth arguing about how salvation works?

    I definitely think proclaiming and defending the gospel are worthwhile pursuits.

    How could one witness to the loat if he is confused about the gospel? We are neither Arminian nor Calvinistic in our views, as both teach salvation by works.

  32. Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)

    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    I find it very discouraging that two groups of Christians, both attempting to serve the Lord in the best way they know how with potentially different views about exceptionally irrelevant ideas that effect our lives very little, continue to find themselves locked in this pointless battle while millions of lost souls are continuously dying and going to hell…

    Do we really think it is a good use of our limited time on earth to argue with one another about how salvation works, when it is costing the lost their souls?

    We need to hold tightly to the doctrinal truths that affect our Christianity. The virgin birth. Salvation by faith through grace alone. Jesus was God. These are important truths that affect our religion at it’s core…

    The debate between Calvinists and Arminians has benefited noone and will continue to cause only strife and division. Love the Lord. Serve Him with gladness. Witness to the lost. Spread the message of His sacrifice.

  33. Madeline – the making of many books, there is no end… Ecc 12. I had a ridiculous number of them, and I think of all the wasted money. Not too many have had a real impact on me, but some have been sound. I thank the Lord for His Word. Who can get enough of it? Evidently those who want to brag that they’ve read it through X amount of times, so by their reckoning, they are an expert. But one thing I know for myself personally. My upbringing was in a good solid Bible church and reading and memorizing and study was a huge part of everyday life. But without the right attitude, you can read through the Bible a hundred times, but yet not ‘see’. Thankful that the Holy Spirit does bring His Word to our remembrance, and that His Word now is different to me than it once was.

  34. You’re right,Holly.In my early years, I wanted to read every Christian book
    I could get my hands on..so I was relying on other people’s Christian
    experiences.I had an extensive Christian library yet wasn’t satisfied.
    Anyway, I started reading God’s word and began to see how wonderful
    It was that He would speak to me personally and I look forward now
    each morning to see what He will teach me.Truely,”Thy Word is a lamp
    unto my feet, and a light unto my path” Psm.119:105

  35. Phil – I remember Swindoll was the darling of so many conservative churches back then, along with people like Tim LaHaye, James Dobson, etc., then later people like Chuck Missler, Beth Moore, Kay Arthur and other teacher/authors. Growing up I never remember my pastor naming names, but the Sunday School teachers did. I hate to think back on who I may have recommended to someone in my life, but I do pray and ask the Lord if He will help them remove any of those people from their lives and replace it with love of His truth.

  36. Madeleine I believe if people haven’t listened to a lot of pastors (as I hadn’t when I was young) they may not even be familiar with some. It wasn’t until maybe my 30’s I started hearing of people and ‘trying’ to listen and/or read some of their books. All it served to do is make me more unsure of my place (less steadfast) and lead me to seek more of the same to find someone more ‘spiritual’.

    Irony of it? When at the end of my rope I decided to give up, ask for His help and start obeying to get into His Word even if a little each day. Thank God for His Word.

  37. sadly few places on internet that exercise biblical discernment concerning the Truth of The Gospel outside of the blog roll here on expreacherman.com
    For me personally a soul yielded to Holly Spirit asking for wisdom and dicerment concerning the Gospel. is a soul that is a handel on a hammer of the Gospel and everyone and everything else sounds like a nail.

  38. I was teaching a Bible study in an AWANA group of boys in the 1990’s using a study book written by Chuch Swindoll titled “Joseph” from Genesis. I thought the book covered the subject pretty well and was understandable for 11 and 12 year old boys. But one thing troubled me later and was that Swindoll’s refers to Joseph in one instance using “divination” and as it sort of being acceptable at the time. What I regret is mentioning this in the Bible study. It may have fell on deft ears of a couple of other adult leaders and probably the boys whose attention spans were not that great. Otherwise I may have been reprimanded for even discussing divination without condemning it.
    Such is the need to scrutinize all these teachers and preachers.

  39. Holly, I was able to glean from Dave Hunt’s books and his ministry”The
    Berean Call” over the years regarding false teachers and knew this
    About Swindoll .Dave’s book” What Love Is This” was instrumental in
    Leading me out of Cavinism and then I discovered Ex-preacherman
    and your website. I know Berean Call has compromised since Dave’s
    Passing, and want to know if there’s a decernment ministry out
    there that not only exposes these false teachers but adheres to
    the true Gospel? I guess it surprises me that some people that
    comment on ExP don’t know this about some of these people,
    Such as Swindoll,Kay Arthur, Beth Moore, Rick Warren, Ray
    Comfort,etc,etc. Madeline

  40. Holly, following is an excerpt from a comment that the late Jack Weaver made in 2014 regarding Swindoll:

    Chuck Swindoll is known for compromising and cooperating with the likes of Greg Laurie (false repentance and Contemplative Spirituality advocate) in an “evangelism” booklet and served on a discussion panel with John MacArthur at a web site of Laurie’s called Preach the Word. (Not recommended).

    Also 8-10 years ago, when I was able to read printed type on a page, I read one of Swindoll’s self help books on a recommendation from a friend (don’t recall the book name). It was all psychology and no Gospel and no mention of Jesus Christ. That may have been an anomaly but be careful.

    Just be wary and compare man’s words with Scripture.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  41. Phil, please be careful of Chuck Swindoll too, I know I listened to him years ago, but hadn’t really followed him in recent times. But I noticed things from others regarding him, one was his usage on his devotionals of the Mess-Age, new age (supposed contemporary Bible) an occult-like paraphrase that uses terms like ‘light-seed’ and ‘God of GREEN HOPE’ (Rom 15:13) along with removing Israel over 600 times. He also quotes and recommends ‘The Living Bible’.

    He too is very ecumenical, quotes people like Bonhoeffer (didn’t believe in the literal, physical resurrection and questioned Christ’s Deity along with other things), like Billy Graham speaks favorably of Mother Teresa and promotes some things he ought not in the RC church, also quoting even Robert Schuller along with being involved with Promise Keepers. Some of the demonology stuff he was teaching was off too. Also he is the president of DTS. Just thought I’d throw that out there for your consideration.

    In Christ, Holly

  42. As for Kay Arthur, I thought I had posted on this earlier, but must have forgotten to post the comment. She is also ecumenical, and quotes mystical Roman Catholics in her books, one is Madame Guyon.

  43. I read one of Kay Arthur’s books in the ’90’s, can’t remember the title and don’t know what happened to it. I really never knew all this about her LS teachings. I don’t remember reading anything that sounded LS in her book.

    Another one that really threw up an LS red flag was listening to June Hunt on her radio show. Her answer to this one caller sounded pretty LS, faith/works.

    In fact, I am wary of most any of the radio hosts that broadcast on Bott Radio Network, with the exception of Chuck Swindoll.

  44. johninnc, As nice as she seems, I never did trust Kay Arthur’s teaching. That was 25 years ago or so, and I can read that quote and go “Uh huh”.

  45. JohnWI, you are right about Kay Arthur.

    Following is a comment that Holly posted about Kay Arthur in June:

    Kay Arthur is Precept Ministries – this is loadship at it’s finest, just shaking my head.

    “If you do not plan to live the Christian life totally committed to knowing your God and to walking in obedience to Him, then don’t begin, for this is what Christianity is all about. It is a change of citizenship, a change of governments, a change of allegiance. If you have no intention of letting Christ rule your life, then forget Christianity; it is not for you.”

    ~Kay Arthur~

  46. Kay Arthur is another one that so many follow, but she preaches the LS message too.

  47. Amen and Amen and Amen John John

  48. Rest. Sweet rest. The simplest thing that the world, the flesh, and the devil frantically, FRANTICALLY—”There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked”—labor to prevent.

    “For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.”—Hebrews 4:3

    To just bask in that reality of God’s works having been FINISHED from the foundation of the world (I can’t comprehend this in toto but I love it!).

    a few verses on…

    “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

    Unbelief won’t “cease from his own works, as God did from His”
    So we “labour” to enter the rest of God…in which we can labour away doing the works “which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2) and “labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily (Colossians 1)”.

    According to HIS working.

    Talk about short-circuiting the legalistic mind! Scripture, revealing the mind of our God, is awesome.

  49. Joni has a message of perseverance (along with all of works because of salvation) in that a soul needs to “drop dead ”
    but in Christ Jesus we are already dead is the part that is totally missed right in front of them Failure to see that a soul competes against God to live the Christian Life and Frustrates Grace

    The just shall live by faith. Sure sounds like a biblical command to me
    God’s desires commands us to Live by Faith NOT Works .
    By Faith Christ Jesus is Glorified , God is Pleased

    Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

    Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

  50. Agree,Holly. I was reading in Genesis 4:3,4 this morning.How can they
    (Reformed) think man has no free will?? ” in the process of time,it
    Came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground,an offering to
    the Lord.And Abel, he also brought the firstlings of his flock……”
    Did these brothers have a free will when each made a different
    decision or was God regenerating only Abel and holding back on

  51. Madeline Lyberger, I always am perplexed by the reformed like Joni who believe God regenerates you in order to believe, how is it they think they can do these things with no free-will?

  52. Francis Chan is a mess, from Calvinist, to loadship and then leaving his church, he seems as if he sincerely wants to please God, but the trouble is he’s doing it by works not faith. He has delved into the IHOP crowd, who are dominionists with Kingdom now theology, a majority Pentecostal Arminians who believe you can lose or walk away from eternal life. He is majorly ecumenical and why is that so? Because ALL of the religions in the world preach WORKS. This is why all these apostates can so easily join hands.

    We’ll WORK together to make the world a better place.

    They are enemies of the cross of Christ.

  53. Madeline, yeah – Joni has a great story, but wrong gospel.

  54. Another one is Joni Ericson Tada..on her website
    Site “Joni and Friends” she says “turn from your
    sins and embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as your

  55. Another one to add to our untrustworthy list is Edwin Lutzer and Moody Bible, have all gone contemplative and theyacknowledge Roman Catholics in the mix, he seems to think they are our brethren, everyday it is more disturbing to hear these things,he is always praising Billy Graham and Augustine. Unfortunately Edwin after attending Dallas Theological College also attended Loyola University (which screams Jesuit Catholicism).

    Billy Graham has been the most instrumental preachers to bring the Ecumencial ring together. He thinks the mormons and the catholics and the pope are all gods children, gods mercy is soooo wide. A lady said to me a couple of weeks ago, she couldn’t reconcile with a god that punishes, she wants a non-judgmental god, like Buddah. She said she has read the bible and it did not sit right with her.

    I hope i don’t see her sitting at the Great White Throne Judgment, but jesus told us ahead of time Many.

  56. LS is just Roman works-salvation repackaged for the Protestant church. What’s more, it’s the same as any other man-made religion in the world. And yes it does factor into eschatology, as (IMO at least) it is what Babylon was all about since the Tower of Babel: that man tries to reach heaven by his own labor.

  57. “The Manhattan Declaration” is another one to try and unite under a ecumenical conclave.

    a 1970 80’s preacher i listen to preached about theese things comming together . When these kind decide to turn on The Gospel of Grace belivers they will do it with a smile a kiss and hand shake.

    Dr Ronnie Floyd is one of the most doctrianly toxic of them all

  58. Luke- I also get so tired by the Francis Chan worship that comes from the members in my local church. It’s so sad that they can’t sniff him out as a wolf. The fact that he participated in the ecumenical Together 2016 event which featured a video message from Pope Francis should be enough to wake people up, but sadly most are blind.

    John probably won’t allow this link to the event but it’s not for an endorsement of the event but to prove he was there and to expose (Eph 5:11) the yoking together with the Catholic Church . I truly believe LS is the instrument being used to unite with the Vatican and will be instrumental in creating the end time “harlot” church.

    (Note from administrator: we are unfamiliar with the linked site and, therefore, do not endorse it).

  59. John, unfortunately that does not surprise me considering BG’s turn-from-sins-to-be-saved message. If he had preached the grace message all these years, his library probably never would have opened.

  60. Keith, the top attraction in my city, according to Tripadvisor, is the Billy Graham Library.

  61. I would also add that the Lordship salvation message is itself more compelling to the natural mind, so this in turn often reflects positively on the messenger.

  62. 1 Cor. 2:1-5:

    “And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

    And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words with man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

    That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God”.

    The power is in the message rather than the messenger.

  63. If it is popular or pastor is popular its usually not the Gospel
    error is already travelling while Truth is putting on its shoes . Error sells books
    My favorite Preacher /Teacher/ Speaker is anyone who expounds on the Truth of The Gospel magnifying the finished work of Christ Jesus , extolling Eternal Life as the Free gift that it is

    I often wonder this to Luke and also why preachers like to drop names of apostate’s and quote them. recently i listened to a message who just finished getting a masters degree and was given rare opportunity to preach step into pulpit and quote Francis Chan . All that time and labor getting a masters degree and given opportunity to be an original voice.

    Was listening to a preacher on Facebook that i have known of since 1996 and done street evangelism with under the Gospel of Grace yet who now quotes John MacArthur . saddened I simply can no longer listen too and Turn away from

  64. luke, I’m sure that there are dynamic speakers who are grace oriented (besides the ones you mentioned). The gospel message, preached in a consistently faithful manner, is the key. Like you said, there are lots of people out there with excellency of speech who do not preach the right gospel.

    1 Corinthians 2:1: And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

  65. a bit off topic but I’ve often wondered this…

    A week never passes where someone I know is beaming over some new Francis Chan message or something from some LS evangelist. Admittedly, these guys are excellent speakers, but of course are preaching the wrong message. It seems like the LS crowd has all kinds of dynamic, *hip* speakers. Now, that sort of thing should not matter but I really wish there were some really hip, dynamic free grace pastors/evangelists getting major attention out there. Or are there? I know of Yankee, Cucuzza, etc.

  66. There are concerns with doctrinal statement of TCBC . of What is left Unsaid

    6. total Depravity does not mean Inability To Trust Christ Jesus as Saviour that part is left unsaid that would cause a lean towards calvinism.

    12. “It is our responsibility to do our part, as a church,”
    Our Part , As Born Again Believer souls we don’t have a part other than to simply enjoy the Lord Jesus Christ Through His Word . You spill with what you are filled with we are to be filled with the Spirit , How ? by enjoying the Lord Jesus Through His Word allowing the Word of God to continually readjust our Thinking

    final concern is there is no Gospel Presentation on Website for me this is a flag .
    all this being said if an assembly like this was in my area upon addressing these concerns with Pastor and having a look over the library and Gospel Tract Rack I probably would attend

  67. Hi, Yes Texas Corners Church highlighted
    By Joel on recent comments after article
    about Southern Baptist. I think he’s great
    Teacher but just happened to come across
    This when I started his series on Genesis.

  68. Madeline, I see now where there were links to Texas Corners. We left an administrator’s note that we are not familiar with that site.

    We have now removed the links.

  69. So wondering if you maybe take off your site
    As recommendation??Madeline

  70. Madeline, I would be highly concerned by favorable references to Calvin, Augustine, or any of their acolytes (think Spurgeon).

    Also, “inviting Jesus into your life” is not how one receives eternal life.

  71. Joel..I’ve been studying along with Pastor Thompson (Texas Corners)in Genesis
    and he seems like a great teacher but should we at all be concerned
    When he refers to Augustine or Calvin? Also when getting to Gen.2:8-17;
    At the end he says..you can invite Jesus into your life. I also listen to
    Tom Cucuzza as having formerly been at one time in Calvinistic
    Church , guess I am gun shy with any hint of Calvinism or
    Lordship salvation. Any comments? Madeline

  72. Daniel, it has to be updated annually. I plan to do that. Thanks for reminding me.

  73. Hey guys. Is this website going to go away? I went on web.horde and it said that this will expire on October 20th.

  74. Joel, checking your pastor out, looked over his SOF, seems sound from what I reviewed so far, saved some of his PDF articles, hope to take a further look sometime this week if the Lord is willing. If he has good, sound, doctrine, it looks like you could go to Bible school on his archives if he does a good job handling the Scriptures.

  75. Joel, checking your pastor out, looked over his SOF, seems sound from what I reviewed, saved some of his PDF articles, hope to take a listen sometime this week if the Lord is willing. If he has good, sound, doctrine, looks like you could go to Bible school on his archives.

  76. Joel, thanks for your comment.

    We will continue to post new articles as we are able, and we also look forward to more feedback from our readers.

  77. I forgot to mention in my last post that the Pastor of Texas Corners Bible Church in Kalamazoo MI also had a 41 message series on Soteriology available on-line.

    (Link removed by administrator)

  78. I check your website every day wishing that there were more frequent writings, articles, and comments by you. For anyone interested. Close to where I live, the Pastor of Texas Corners Bible Church in Kalamazoo Michigan did a 13 message series on The Heresay of Lordship Salvation that is available on-line both in audio, and written forms.

    (Link removed by administrator)

    There are a few good eggs out there yet, but just getter tougher to find.

  79. Dino, it’s good to hear from you. We can expect resistance and persecution from non-religious and religious alike.

    Galatians 4:29: But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

  80. Russia has triggered some mighty end time signs by passing law, not allowing evangelism nor church homes. There are several countries already like north korea who would kill you if you shared the gospel and their not even muslim. China has been destroying crosses everywhere. Seems to me they recognize the power of Christ more than other people do thats why they tear down the churches.

    Ive heard of SBC 2 years ago and I knew they had the “turn away from sin” kind of repentance. There are alot of modern churches in the US now that emphasizes on works. Pastor Yankee and pastor Tom Cucuzza are a rare breed.

    It’s coming.. i really do feel that folks who know the truth are shrinking in numbers. Here in our country, “false missionaries” (i say false because they teach LS) constantly enter classrooms and schools preaching their false messages and alot of youth are falling victims to there missionaries. Whenever I see one.. you know that feeling where you like you just wanna butt in and shout from the rooftops and proclaim what the real gospel is… but I know that there is a better way to do it and not look like a wild man. I know fear can get a grip of me sometimes but it happens.

    Anyway, ill keep in touch. Im pretty sure brother Jack is happy knowing that there are people who still contends for the truth like he did

  81. The irony is that he was doing this in a very nicely decorated church with nice pews and a state-of-the-art Bose sound system. Yet the hymns were about ‘sacrifice for the kingdom’. And there was a short message (printed in the handout too) before the sermon about giving.

    I stayed through the sermon out of morbid curiosity.

  82. Socalexile, hit the nail on the head, shows where their treasure lies I believe. And this also shows the problem with Calvinism taking the SBC over, no matter what they ‘say’, there really is no pressing need to preach the gospel to a world that has already been pre-selected for heaven or hell with no choice of their own.

  83. Preston, it always cheers me up, blesses me to hear of churches like yours breaking away from their traditions and standing upon the truth of God’s Word. Praying for it to continue. In Christ forever.

  84. My only response to socalexile’s last post:

    Click, click.


  85. The SBC has gone so far as to defund 700-800 or so of their missionaries because of “lack of funds” (as one pastor put it at a Baptist church I visited), yet they have millionaire pastors and the ability to fund political campaigns. That tells me all I need to know.

  86. Holly,

    like every denomination, Methodists have the “sects”. I attend one that believes in eternal security and is not holier then thou. In fact, the pastor has mentioned the “holier then thou” sect of Methodist-ism to me individually.

    i have a few problems with some of the sermons at this church (usually from the asst pastors who have praised both Billy G and the Pope; dont think they do it on purpose…they just dont decern that well).

    But on a good note, i am hearing more of the gospel in sermons (i heard the gospel ONCE in my first year….that was on easter)….so…progress. 🙂

  87. Hey John – Great article, I think of the Pharisees and the Roman authorities, and their power and their position with them and over the people. But we know what’s coming and the day we are living in. We’re seeing so much ecumenism, and fellowship with the world and the unfruitful deeds of darkness. I think people in general in churches are tired of the way that the law makes them feel as these religious hypocrites are not straightforward about the truth of the gospel (and that’s assuming they are as Peter and Barnabas and know Him and just need rebuked publicly). This may be why they are losing people besides those who have seen the truth and fled from Calvinism realizing it maligns God’s character as well as the gospel.

    Anyways, thank you for all you do. In Christ, Holly

  88. Matthew, good to see you again. I think most of us tired over politics of many kinds a long time ago. I always looked at the denominations and continue to stay confused with the carnality of it all, and no one seeming to step out of it. How did you find a Wesleyan church to align with your views? Aren’t they holiness and also Arminian (lose your salvation kind)?

    Anyways, I have visited this blog long enough to say I believe that there are thinkers here. Humble ones, gracious and those who sincerely care about great plainness of speech since we have such a great hope. We’re tired of people muddying up the living waters keeping the lost lost, or putting the brethren back in bondage. Many of us have lived in bondage for years because of it, and we’re thankful once we started truly becoming disciples of His Word, the truth began to set us free. Many of us here have suffered, yet trust the Lord will use it in our lives to show our love for Him by feeding His sheep.

    God bless you and your wife Matthew.

  89. Matthew Winters Ministries

    Mdw4Christ is still the domain. I fell out with the SBC for a few reasons: I am tired of the political system. I am tired of fighting over petty issues such as worship styles. I also no longer have a place among many SBC brethren because of my divorced and remarried. The Wesleyan church (at least the one which we joined) aligns with our beliefs and places a great emphasis on making disciples: evangelism, baptism, and teaching. Unfortunately, denominations are man made and flawed. Our goal should be to operate as biblically as possible. I think you have a glimpse of who I am by now. I will ask tough questions because I am a thinker and want others who read your blog to be also. Blessings, my brother. So sorry you’re in NC (haha). Still trying to heal from my battle wounds there.

  90. Sam, it’s good to hear from you.

    Yes, I think all religions are the same, and as we draw closer to the end, their differences are becoming less important to them.

  91. Matthew, welcome back! I believe you posted previously under the name “mdw4christ.”

    No, I am not a “fighting fundy.” We believe in advancing and defending the gospel, and part of that is drawing attention to individuals and groups that corrupt the gospel.

    We agree that not all members of SBC churches agree with the SBC’s false doctrine, which is why we would encourage anyone who understands and believes the gospel, but is affiliated with SBC churches, to leave them at once.

    Yes, sinners are dying and going to hell. But, the false LS “gospel” being taught by the SBC will not save anyone.

    Following is from the SBC website on how to become a Christian. Notice the works put onto the prospective believer in order to earn his salvation – commitment, surrender, turn away from sin.

    “Are you ready to accept the gift of eternal life that Jesus is offering you right now? Let’s review what this commitment involves:

    I acknowledge I am a sinner in need of a Savior – this is to repent or turn away from sin

    I believe in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead – this is to trust that Jesus paid the full penalty for my sins

    I confess Jesus as my Lord and my God – this is to surrender control of my life to Jesus

    I receive Jesus as my Savior forever – this is to accept that God has done for me and in me what He promised

    If it is your sincere desire to receive Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior, then talk to God from your heart.

  92. John it looks to me like the sbc ,roman cathlics and any denomination that i can think of all slip in works for salvation.So i can certainly see why they would be able to come together and be one world RELIGION.I know we are getting up in years now but you never know this could all happen in our lifetime.Keep up the good work always like reading these articles and replies.By the way I left the baptist almost three years ago now as it was impossible for me to have any peace there.

  93. Matthew Winters Ministries

    Shall I safely assume that you are a “fighting fundy”? I once belonged to that camp. I would say it is unfair to put everyone in the SBC in the same camp. I removed myself from them recently. I got tired of the fighting amongst preachers while sinners are dying and going to hell. I think there are bigger fish to fry.

  94. For a nanosecond I was like, “Mosh pit? That’s kind of a young . . .” And then it was more like, “Oh yeah. Those have been around for about 35 years now, haven’t they?”

  95. fryingpan, it’s great to hear from you!

    I know what you mean about feeling old. I just became eligible for the free coffee at McDonalds.

  96. Great post.

    I’ve met Mike Glenn. Attended his church for exactly one month a little over 10 years ago. This story doesn’t surprise me at all.

    By the way, great use of “mosh pit” as a metaphor. Wow, do I feel old.