David Platt is a 33 year-old preacher and author from Alabama who preaches and promotes a judgmental form of Lordship Salvation, a.k.a. Lordship Probation or Lordship Faith teaching. He is very similar in style and approach to Francis Chan (there are several articles on Chan at the Expreacherman.com site). Platt wrote a best-selling Lordship Faith book entitled, “Radical.” It is very much akin to Chan’s popular book, “Crazy Love.” The following is an excerpt from the article, “David Platt Still Addressing Controversy Over ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ Remarks,” SOURCE: thechristianpost.com, November 12, 2012. Platt got himself into hot water with various Christian groups recently over a public comment that he made declaring that the sinner’s prayer is “superstitious.”
We, who hold to Free Grace theology, declare the biblical message of Ephesians 2:8-9, that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone; Free Grace theology also agrees that “walking an aisle,” “raising a hand,” or “saying a prayer” are of themselves in no way salvific. However, David Platt’s “sinner’s prayer” comment seemed to be a caricature of what he calls, “easy believism,” as well as a not-so-veiled slam at Free Grace teaching in general. His later statement of defense of that comment bears this out. Below is his statement. You will notice that in it Platt utilizes the same old worn-out hackneyed Lordship Salvation slams that have been used and reused by other LS preachers and writers like John MacArthur, Francis Chan and John Piper. These guys really need to come up with some fresh arguments!
From the article from the Christian Post, 11/12/12:
“‘But the question,’ he said, is: ‘What kind of faith are we calling people to? In a day of rampant easy-believism that creates cultural Christians who do not know Christ, who have never counted the cost of following Christ, we must be biblically clear about saving faith, lest any of us lead people down a very dangerous and potentially damning road of spiritual deception. True, saving faith, the Alabama pastor explained, requires first understanding man’s condition before God – that they are dead in sin. ‘We cannot dumb it down,’ he stressed. ‘We are morally evil.’ ‘To be born-again, one must repent – turn from sin and self – and believe – trust in Jesus as the Savior who died for us and the Lord who rules over us.’ ‘We tell men and women, boys and girls everywhere: repent and believe in Christ. Whether we say, ‘Pray this prayer after me,’ is not the issue,’ Platt highlighted. ‘The issue is that together we say, ‘By the grace of God in the cross of Christ, turn from yourself and trust in Jesus. Come from darkness to light. Come from death to life.'”
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
John 6:47, agree.
Radical? Platt is just part of the same spiritual ancestry as the Judaizers in Acts 15 and the whole book of Galatians. Some things never change…..
Phil, sometimes pastors are unaware of the trouble behind these ‘radicals’. Their desire may just be to be closer to God and they are not realizing or seeing the big picture because they’ve just dipped their toes into the other cistern. You may be able to give them some quotes and issues with them where they can see what the problem is. If I may offer some suggestions (that has worked only very occasionally).
I grab a list of their books and outline them.
I grab a list of their associates and identify them (i.e. loadship, turn from sin gospel, Calvinist etc.)
I grab a list of their quotes or teachings from transcripts.
As I make these lists I footnote the links below so everything is cited, and they cannot deny these things were said and not ‘out of context’ as they’ll claim.
If you can get them to see that these people aren’t teaching believers how to become disciples but trying to teach unbelievers how to be disciples in order to be saved, or trying to bewitch believers into thinking they can somehow finish in the flesh that which began in the Spirit, you may win over a brother. Praying for you in this.
Also, this Bible Church’s SOF is grace alone, faith in the gospel alone. But I think it may be going the wrong direction, maybe the LS direction.
Thanks bros. This is the same church where the pastor has also quoted Francis Chan twice. There seems to be a growing number of churches using this “Cults and Counterfeit Gospels” series by David Platt… Red Flag.
Phil, that is indeed the same David Platt. On his program, he should showcase his own ministry as one which advances a counterfeit gospel.
Phil, I assume it’s the same guy. If so, he is LS all the way.
I have a question on David Platt. Is he running a series called “Cults and Counterfeit Gospels” ? ( I think that’s the title of this series). The reason I ask is to be sure this is the same David Platt that has also made some LS type statements similar to Francis Chan.
I noticed on a website of a church I sometimes attend that they will be running David Platt’s series called “Cults and Counterfeit Gospels.”
I was pondering this comment by Stephen.
The Misunderstanding comes from not understanding Johh Calvins, John Owens, Goodwin and some of the best of the best preachers ever were actually stating ..one must read what they say with the whole picture in mind to understand what they are saying rather than going by hearsay which is most of what i’ve been seeing.
A few things from His Word come to mind. The carnality of calling one’s self a Calvinist. Popular preachers (as Curtis brought up) is not a commendation.
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. Luke 6:26
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. 1 Cor 4:6
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 1 Cor 3:4-5
(Should this say ‘but ministers by whom you believe’ if it is by God making particular people believe? Wouldn’t that be giving the ministers the glory in Calvinists eyes?)
Just because preachers/Teachers are popular is not an indication their doctrine is above scrutiny by the Word of God
We should all strive to be an Original Voice and not a copy of another
Joh 18:34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Stephen, faith is not the gift, eternal life is. I do pray you might look into that further. If faith comes by hearing the Word, it does not come from being ‘pre-regenerated’ in order to have the ability to have faith in the truth.
Stephen, you said: ”For apart from Me you can do nothing”..that includes ‘believing rightly’..”
But the Lord Jesus commanded us to believe. The Lord also desires that none perish, yet most will perish.
to define total depravity as not able to respond to God is to go aginst the word of God.
not according to our works
but according to his own purpose and grace,
2tim 1: 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, xref-2 [xref-6]
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
when they knew God
rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Stephen, welcome and thanks for your comment.
Many of the commenters on this site have performed extensive research on Calvin, so the comments are based on more than “hearsay.”
Calvin was a Calvinist, and I do not consider him to have been a great preacher.
It’s interesting to read people talk about false teachers every which way…almsot everyone is a false teacher …to write ‘it’s faith plus works’…can be read both ways. To be enabled to Know The LORD as a gift from God is not works..as writers say, We Know Christ is LORD because we already have Eternal Life…but to take credit for believing it is not of ourselves but a work of God..but so many comments imply that we in and of ourselves can believe takes the credit away from God’s work. In essence, I’ll disagree with Platt and this post and the comments. :-0…To disagree concerning ‘Depravity’ is to imply that there is a ‘goodness’ in man apart from Christ which is fallacious. The Misunderstanding comes from not understanding Johh Calvins, John Owens, Goodwin and some of the best of the best preachers ever were actually stating ..one must read what they say with the whole picture in mind to understand what they are saying rather than going by hearsay which is most of what i’ve been seeing. All the Credit gots to The Spirit of Holiness by through and IN Christ toward us and back through Him…”For apart from Me you can do nothing”..that includes ‘believing rightly’..
Happy to hear update William
Not necessarily about the Gospel, but this concept of spiritual dry spells has taken the professing church by storm. Also, there is an inherent element of perseverance of the saints added in the following words by Tozer. Spiritual dry spell teaching is preached by Calvinists such as Tim Keller, ecumenists like Rick Warren, and more ravenous wolves. I was challenged today for asserting that we can prevent spiritual dry spells (lack of motivation, lack of joy in the Lord, lack of desire for the Word, lack of desire for obedience) by remaining in the Vine (John 15), making sure our joy is full through the tests of fellowship (1 John), and continually adding to our faith (2 Peter 1:8-9). Holly suggests that those who endure false teaching will always have up’s and down’s because of their basis on feeling. Those who challenged grossly misunderstood my words and it grieved my heart, incredibly.
From AW Tozer (false teacher): “Probably nothing else bothers the earnest Christian quite so much as the problem of those dry spells that come to him occasionally, no matter how faithfully he tries to obey God and walk in the light. He can never predict them and he cannot always explain them. And there lies the difficulty.”
Here’s more of his lies:
“Religion”, say the theologians, “lies in the will.” What our will is set to do is what really matters at last. Aridity has nothing to do with the will. “If any man will,” said Jesus; He did not say “If any man feel.” Feeling is the play of emotion over the will, a kind of musical accompaniment to the business of living, and while it is indeed most enjoyable to have the band play as we march to Zion it is by no means indispensable. We can work and walk without music, and if we have true faith we can walk with God without feeling.
Normally we may expect some degree of spiritual joy to be present most of the time. Fellowship with God is so delightful that it cannot but provide a large measure of joy; but we are talking now about those times when our joy fades out and the presence of the Lord is felt only feebly or not at all. Such times demand that we exercise faith. Moments of great spiritual delight do not require much faith; if we never came down form the mount of blessing we might easily come to trust in our own delights rather than in the unshakeable character of God. THIS: >>> It is necessary therefore that our watchful Heavenly Father withdraw His inward comforts from us sometimes to teach us that Christ alone is the Rock upon which me must repose our everlasting trust.”
Since when does the Father withdraw His comfort from His children? Is that even consistent with the Word of God? My precious God’s character? Seems this is why Calvinists have such a distorted and satanic view of God’s love. I hate these doctrines of disgrace with every last fiber of my being.
William, glad to hear. Seems like a lot has been going on just in general with almost all I know including myself. But the Lord keeps helping us walk through this dirty world, and holds us up and helps us. Will pray for tomorrow.
John, Thanks! All your prayers do make a big difference. God is good! Praise God!
William, I have prayed for your stent removal tomorrow to go well, and that God would continue to strengthen you.
I just wanted to say THANK YOU to those of you who prayed for me. I just had surgery to remove a very painful kidney stone. The pain was so bad that I totally lost my appetite and even pain medication didn’t work at all. I lost 6 pounds within 3 days. The 1 and a half hour procedure went smoothly on Friday with no complications and the general anesthesia was great. Please continue to pray for me as I will have to go in tomorrow to have a stent removed. Please pray that will go smoothly as well. Thank you, John, Holly, Bryan, Curtis, and all those who prayed for me.
Shane, I agree.
Churchianity seems to be the largest, fastest-growing religion in the world.
David Platt, who has an enormously huge pulpit in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), will, not surprisingly, be speaking at the upcoming SBC Pastors Conference. Who else will be speaking at the SBC Pastors Conference? Greg Laurie. Greg Laurie, who is of course another lordship salvationist, who requires you to commit your life fully and repent of all sin, in order to be saved. Greg Laurie, who will go in the ecumenical mix with anyone. Around that time, Greg Laurie will also be supporting “Azusa Now”, a dominionist gathering that will unite pentecostal, evangelical, and catholic groups to “re-live” the early 1900’s of Azusa.
It’s a mess out there.
There are no more “labels” that work to tell us who is good or bad in terms of the Gospel. None. “Baptist” means nothing. “Evangelical” means nothing. “Christian” means nothing. “Non-denominational” means nothing. “Bible church” means nothing.
Now, there are only two groups. There’s just the blob of so-called “Christianity” that encompasses everything but the Gospel of Grace, and then there is the Gospel of Grace.
So we’re relegated to standing here with our Bibles and the Gospel, and trying to find some “group” or “label” out there to stand with , is a waste of time.
Amen Holly
“Most importantly, what must you do in order to be saved? What is it you are believing?”
and What is God’s Standard for righteousness ?
For the wages of sin is death
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
the wages of sin is not Turning from sin , repent/repenting of sin , the wages or penalty to be paid for sin is dying for sin , Jesus paid my sin debt and the sin debt of the whole world . A soul will not hear or see this under the bewitching of works for salvation the spiritually carnal are blinded
Now , the soul whosoever believes that Jesus paid their sin debt by non meritorious faith through Grace , they receive the FREE Gift of eternal Life and are Justified forever before the only Holy Just God , The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob , and are sealed by the Holy Spirit a seal that can never be broken never eternally.
a believer soul now has 2 choices to yield to Spirit allowing the Spirit to lead guide and direct the turning from sin is a by product of Holy Spirit from a souls actively dependence in their thinking and enjoying the Lord Jesus through His Word , obedience is passive
active dependence passive obedience
Taking what Gods word says to be True and appropriating what God says against thyself by Grace through Faith
so might grace reign through righteousness, they shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ
the other choice is to be spiritually carnal and carnal is as carnal does biblical carnality is never to the unbeliever but always addresses the believer soul . all of Works for salvation tries to do is drag their rotten decrepit Natural man in a body bag corpse around with them trying to make it acceptable before God , when God will have no parts at all with the Old man. God starts all over with the New Man to Glorify Jesus Christ who Paid the price UNTO the Sin nature and FOR Sin Romans 6:10-13
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Jeremiah — Platt says a Biblical response to the gospel is to first turn from sin and self, and then trust Jesus as your Savior. Turning from sin in order to be saved is a work. Turning from sin once someone has believed is a good thing to do in order to walk worthy (Eph 4:1-2), benefit others (Titus 3:8), bear fruit, labor in the harvest, shine a light, stay in fellowship, and be justified in the sight of others (James 2), but it is not by works of righteousness we have done that we are saved (Titus 3:4-7), this one should know…. Platt further says it’s a ‘crying out to God in repentance saying I’m turning from my sin and I’m trusting in Jesus as Savior and Lord of my life’.
Beyond that, Platt is a Calvinist, who believes God has predestined people to heaven or hell. He is simply a false teacher who needs marked and avoided (Rom 16:17-18). I am not sure you know that, but I pray you will search the Scriptures to see if these things are really so (Rom 16:17-18).
Most importantly, what must you do in order to be saved? What is it you are believing?
Jeremiah, wrote
“I am not a Platt apologist”
a·pol·o·gist
noun
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.
Jeremiah , Welcome and pray you hang around and ask questions and study for yourself the comments made to you . studying the word of God for yourself
for someone who claims not to be an apologist you certainly are doing it by your own words according to definition , unless we are going to redefine what an apologist is ?
that is what works for salvation or evidence of salvation does. a soul imposes their own will upon the Word of God and redefine words
so will you yield to the Word of God for the Standard of righteousness ?
or will it continue to be the standard that you claim not to be an apologist ?
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Jeremiah,
you said – Rather, he is saying that IMPLICIT IN the submission to the lordship of Christ
ME – submission is for discipleship not salvation. salvation is a free gift (Rom 5:15-20 KJV).
you said – being saved unto forviveness of sins and eternal life is turning from one’s sins
ME – that is the exact definition of what galatians calls ‘another gospel” and is an accursed message (Gal 1:6-9). 1 John 3:4 defines sin (transgression of the law); thus “turning from sin” = keep the law; for sin IS transgression of the law. The law frustrates grace (Gal 2:21) and makes faith void (Rom 4:13-14).
you said – In Matthew chapter three John the Baptist admonishes the scribes and pharisees to “bear fruit” in keeping with repentance
ME – repent, when it comes to salvation means a “change of mind’. See Matt 3:9 – They were THINKING that because they were of Abrahams seed, they were fine (they needed to change their minds). Bearing fruit is what the believer should do (See expreacherman stemming fruit inspection).
you said – Too many people today are being lovingly and perhaps unintentionally that salvation is simply a decision to be made, while not much is mentioned about things such as the cost of following Christ
ME- there is NO cost to salvation; it is a free gift (Rom 5:15-20, Rom 6:23, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:24), salvation is free; discipleship is costly (if you don’t separate the 2; you will be confused and your gospel will be off).
you said – Without these associated Christian realities being shared, we need to wonder what kind of salvation these new believers have signed up for
ME – what kind???? there is only one kind. It is a free gift given to those that believe (trust) in whom Jesus was (Gods only Son, God in the flesh)and the gospel (that Christ DOED FOR OUR SINS and rose again). Once believed, a person is “sealed” (Eph 1:13-14 KJV) unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30)
you said – We don’t want them to be disheartened later or fall away or be refused entry into Heaven as Jesus spoke about
ME – a believer in the gospel is sealed unto the day of redemption; thus they cant be refused entry into heaven. Even if their faith is overthrown they are still saved (2 Tim 2:17-19).
you said – We are not promoting a negative Gospel–it is GLORIOUS AND GRACIOUS– but we don’t want to water it down, dumb it down or sugar-coat it either
ME – the only people who mess with the gospel are those that ADD to it. Salvation is EASY (Matt 11:28-30 kjv) and very SIMPLE (2 Cor 11:3-4 kjv).
Friend, I am concerned that you have not understood the gospel.
with respect,
Jeremiah,
There is no cost associated with accepting the free gift of eternal life. If there were, it wouldn’t be a gift. It would be a trade.
Turning from sin is not implicit in believing in Jesus.
The fruit that the scribes and Pharisees needed to demonstrate was their need for a Savior and their faith in Jesus – not turning from their sins and doing good works for salvation.
No one who believes in Jesus as Savior will ever be refused entry into heaven. Jesus never said that.
Jeremiah, I think that you have been exposed to some very bad teaching.
I would invite you to read the short booklet, linked below, to become better grounded in the reality of eternal life by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Click to access the-gospel.pdf
Brothers in our Lord Jesus Christ! I am not a Platt apologist, but he is not promoting an attitude of works in order to be saved. Rather, he is saying that IMPLICIT IN the submission to the lordship of Christ and being saved unto forviveness of sins and eternal life is turning from one’s sins. In Matthew chapter three John the Baptist admonishes the scribes and pharisees to “bear fruit” in keeping with repentance. Too many people today are being lovingly and perhaps unintentionally that salvation is simply a decision to be made, while not much is mentioned about things such as the cost of following Christ (persecution, loss of friends or family members, “the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head”), etc. Without these associated Christian realities being shared, we need to wonder what kind of salvation these new believers have signed up for. We don’t want them to be disheartened later or fall away or be refused entry into Heaven as Jesus spoke about. We are not promoting a negative Gospel–it is GLORIOUS AND GRACIOUS– but we don’t want to water it down, dumb it down or sugar-coat it either. God bless you!
Jim, thanks for providing the link to your excellent review of Platt’s book.
More recently, you wrote an article entitled “Bible Basics: Do Good Works Prove Salvation?” This article is really valuable in refuting the heretical teaching that good works and a life of holiness automatically follow someone receiving eternal life by grace through faith in Christ. Please see link, below:
http://standforthefaith.com/2014/06/28/bible-basics-do-good-works-prove-salvation/
Scott, the problem lies not with Platt’s zeal but with his false gospel and false views. I have also written about it here: http://standforthefaith.com/2013/10/27/book-review-david-platt-radical-taking-back-your-faith-from-the-american-dream/
Jim F
Scott – just as we would be held accountable for bearing false witness, so will you. We all need to be sure before we make any accusations against someone. This site carefully keeps screen shots, links, exact comments from the people themselves, in order to be sure what they report is clear. Now from time to time any of us can mistake whether one is from this affiliation or that, or this state or that, but the crux of the matter is he mixes up discipleship with the gospel, and just like the Judaizers at the church of Galatia, they are then teaching a works based accursed gospel. Hoping you are not passing along that same gospel for the sake of you and your loved ones.
Hi Scott , Welcome to expreacherman
I have been on this blog for about a year and have witnessed nothing but integrity from the moderators here holding to the clarity of the gospel.
A personal Attack on someone I have not seen nor would think it would be allowed. I feel that’s not why we are here. I know I have enough going on just getting along with myself.
I did go back over this thread lightly looking for a personal attack against Mr David Platt and I did not see it ?. We are told to test the spirits and search the scriptures. I do not see a problem with pointing out doctrinal errors and marking those who cause divisions. I know this group despises religion and is quick to point out Gospel error’s
I did not watch the youtube vids maybe that is were the cushy lifestyle comments comes from .
Scott S
You are welcome here — but you are not welcome to propagate your own distorted and rather unimportant “facts.”
You apparently don’t know any more about Platt’s whereabouts than you know about his “radical” and erroneous “gospel” message.
A cursory search of the Internet plainly confirms he is Pastor of a Church at Brook Hills, Birmingham, AL, In fact one of my granddaughters attended his “church” for a short while until she realized his message is not the Gospel of salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, but indeed radically wrong.
We urge you to understand the ever increasing radical departure from Biblical Faith and Truth into the Lordship “salvation” as promoted by Platt. His message, if believed, will save no one.
Please read the article:
Lordship Salvation Defined
https://expreacherman.com/%e2%99%a6-lordship-salvation-defined/
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Scott S, welcome and thanks for your comment.
The article about David Platt pointed out his errant “gospel” of Lordship “salvation”, which will not save anyone, and his derision for the real gospel of salvation by grace alone through faith alone on Christ alone.
You have quoted James 2:14. Can you explain to us what you think it means?
Scary comments from a group who criticize Platt from afar. The, “Alabama Pastor” & “sells books and lives a cushy life” comments wer the tipping point of this threads clear misunderstanding of D Platt and his heart for the Gospel. (He is from Tennessee & lives a very normal life)
James 2:14 “14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?”
Dear Friends at ExP,
As I was doing some research on the SBC, its member Seminaries and officials, I find that David Platt (Radical) is not Presbyterian as I had been advised by someone who attended his church for a short while — but he is a Calvinist Southern Baptist. (Not much difference).
So, hopefully, I have corrected all my similar Platt miscues in my comments here. If you spot an error about Platt’s affiliation, please advise me. I apologize for that unintended slip. Our intention is to be very accurate when we report on LSers.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
easy believe ism ? really , It is so easy to fear someone into a relationship with God through LS or anything that frustrates grace and convince them they have a debt to repay because of Jesus finished work on the cross . Its hard for a soul to trust rely depend on Jesus for his finished work completely freely , That God Is Love and also is the lover of souls as you are were you are. It is the goodness of God that leads to a changed mind , He is the friend that sticks closer than a Brother
Pingback: Are All “Christian” Religions Teaching Lordship “Salvation”? | Notes From A Retired Preacher
And the main point which I left out, is they themselves, as they stand accusing daily, are costing people their lives daily as they lie about the truth of the gospel….
Mike and Jack, we sure should submit to God, humble ourselves under His mighty hand. Comes with time in His Word and encouragement from others in the body, hopefully… not for all. And the sad part is, there is so much error, so much false teaching, younger believers who are not in the strong meat of His Word, do not have their senses exercised to know the difference between good and evil. Many have their faith decimated by these false teachers, daily accusations….
People like David Platt or Francis Chan… all of them, openly declare not only to the left hand what their right hand is supposedly doing, but to the whole world. They sell books, suggesting or outwardly declaring people are not saved if they are not as “radical” as they are. And if the person really gets scared, I am assuming they hang on to the edge of their seats hoping their next book comes out quickly, so they can figure out salvation before they die. Then they too might become an accomplice of the accuser of the brethren as they point at others accusing them of being lost, rather than encouraging one another daily with His Word.
These people might be radical do-gooders in their sight and the sight of others, however, they are not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, and if they ever knew it, they are to be publicly blamed for playing the hypocrites.
Mike,
Welcome back. Thanks for your comment, you are right.
Every believer already has Jesus Christ as “Lord” of their lives the moment they believe. Believers are instructed to now be obedient to Him and His Word. (Ephesians 2:10). We belong to Him when we believe in Him as our Savior. Obedience to our Lord and His Word is a believer’s choice, NOT as the Lordshippers claim, a requirement for or evidence of our Salvation, before, during or after.
Long before L.S. Chafer came around, The Bible declared the principle — never mix faith with works for salvation. Many times The Word illustrates the dangers of doing so:
All believers SHOULD walk in good works (Ephesians 2:10) — but we must NEVER make salvation conditional upon our behavior.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
The problem is that the Lordshippers do attach
I firmly believe that we should as believers should make Jesus the Lord of our lives follow him and serve Him wholeheartilly but as lewis sperry chafer said to inject these works into the salvation formula is most perilous. mike t
Dear Friends,
For some of our readers who may not be subscribed to ExPreacherMan, John has written an excellent article about JD Greear, an up and coming Icon of the SBC Lordship Salvation push.
Please visit:
http://tinyurl.com/pwxfeus
Britt,
You are certainly welcome here and you will find many like minded friends among us.
You said, “If I surrender my life to Christ that is works.”
Great observation. You are absolutely right
Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us the way of salvation in Christ:
And then in verse 10, we are told that because we are saved (created in Christ Jesus) what we should do is “walk in good works”:
As believers in Christ, we will find a happier and more blessed Christian life when we surrender to His will and His Word in discipleship.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Welcome Britt,
Great to have you join our grace fellowship today.
Your last statement really nails a central issue of lordship salvation teaching. Yes, they regularly confuse salvation with discipleship. That is why they quote so heavily from the Synoptic Gospels, especially the parables, and cite their teachings wholesale as if they always apply to salvation, which they do not.
I have been reading your articles and appreciate your input. I struggle with. Those who preach LS because they do not even relise that they preach works.
When the gospel is presented we must leave the recipient with an option to believe in Christ, not something to do.
If I surrender my life to Christ that is works.
I feel they confuse salvation with discipleship .
Oh, and I wanted to address what Jack said, yes, methodist/nazarene doctrine teaches that you can lose your salvation, and they cause you to question your salvation. So this group apparently found a way around that, by claiming a certain level of sinless perfection for themselves. Damnable heresy begets more damnable heresy.
“Your experience in the Methodist church is not uncommon. Their basic theology leads one to question their salvation.”
Seriously. I am currently dealing with a group that is nazarene/methodist which believes they have arrived at some kind of sinless perfection. The sins they still do from time to time, they say, are just accidents caused by the imperfections of their mind/body, but they themselves have arrived at sinless perfection. Crazy stuff.
Ken,
Glad to have you aboard. You will find many free Grace friends here.
Your experience in the Methodist church is not uncommon. Their basic theology leads one to question their salvation. Your “friends” seem to agree with that. They are what we call “fruit inspectors” and Lordship “salvationists” or probationists.
Feel free to come back, peruse our other articles. We appreciate your encouraging comment.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
You guys and girls all hit the ol’ nail on the head. These Platts and Chans are elitists who are lording over us much like Washington DC but this is much more serious than DC. It’s our Salvation! I grew up Baptist and now go to a Methodist Church where a group of “younger” adult men are taking it upon themselves to set up rules and regulations on our Missions’ activites, how we need to be better disciples and recruit new disciples (or, the implication is that “you are not following Jesus’ commandments) and they manage to tell me what I am doing wrong in my walk with the Lord. I really don’t blame Ghandi for making that comment “I like your Jesus, it is your Christians I don’t care for” when witnessing this sort of activity. It’s like a power grab by the new Christian elitists. I call it “Phariseeing”! I prefer my personal relationship with God and my studying of his Word over what these clowns have to tell me. God Bless you all! Glad I found this site! – Ken in ATL, GA
Elizabeth D.,
Welcome to our place — Glad to have you here.
We are pleased you have the discernment to see that Platt is definitely un-scriptural in his message. He and too many others like him are preaching their works messages rather than a free “saved by grace” message (Ephesians 2:8-9).
We have documented many others here as warnings to those who would take and believe author’s and speaker’s foul words as “thus saith the Lord” without a second thought.
Please come back often — your words are encouraging to many on our web site.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
David Platt’s book RADICAL had been recommended to me, and I started to read it. I wasn’t too far into it when I began to have red flags raised screaming “works! not grace! legalism!”. I have not finished the book, but just watched a short video by Platt and the same red flags came up again! I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks that there is definitely a works theology and much legalism within Platt and his messages.
Thanks, Matt, but I’ve already watched both of them. My only “complaint” is that they’re not longer and that there aren’t more of them, but I suppose that would mean they weren’t concise now, wouldn’t it? 😉
Thanks Matt!
.
Hello Frying Pan,
Check out Bruce’s clear and concise free grace YouTube cartoons…
First,
and, second
Just a quick “update”:
John, I’ve been reading Ron Shea (per your link above), the stuff including his “Myths and Facts About Repentance In the New Testament.”
Great stuff. It’s really helpful. Thanks again for pointing me to it.
In the meantime I’ve been finding some great sermons on Youtube. I’ll name names if anyone here’s interested. Perhaps you have some “amens” to give me, or even some . . . what’s the opposite of “amen”? (Warnings.)
I’ve also found some folks* on Youtube who, while teaching a Free Grace/Anti-LS message, nonetheless seem to have a mixed message in that they seem very angry and uncharitable towards people who post comments with which they don’t agree. That’s not very Christ like. No one’s perfect so I guess this is to be expected.
So for now I’m pretty much in learning and unlearning mode (learning and reinforcing the truth and sound doctrine while at the same time learning to disabuse myself of the confusion brought on by LS and and other false doctrines (Calvinism, Arminianism, etc.).
But what’s been really great is sitting down with my wife and going over the many Bible verses that explain salvation and eternal security. I’m enjoying devotional time wife my wife more than I can remember for many years. (We’ve been together almost 18 years.)
I say “folks” but it’s really only one Youtube user I’ve found that fits this description.
John, Bruce, thanks again so much.
I will check out ALL that info you’ve provided.
Meanwhile I’m also learning to 1) stop WORRYING so much but rather look for opportunities to contend for the faith once for all delivered unto the saints and 2) things aren’t always what they seem, and there might not be as much a looming “fight” as previously considered. (But I still need to remain vigilant.) And 3) Sometimes the ones you think have it “right” don’t have it as “right” as you previously hoped and likewise the ones you’re “worried” about turn out to be not nearly as far gone as you thought.
And everything beyond and in between, I suppose!
I’ll keep y’all posted if there’s anything significant to report or ask about.
Fryingpan, in addition to the sources that Bruce and others have suggested, I would suggest Clear Gospel Campaign’s section entitled “‘Lordship’ or Bi-lateral Contract Salvation”. Ron Shea describes LS as follows:
“Bilateral Contract Salvation, most commonly known as “Lordship Salvation” is the false doctrine whereby God offers a lost sinner the promise of eternal life in exchange for a lost sinner’s promise of future works. It is thereby an exchange of promises, or a bilateral contract. Because the controversy of Bilateral Contract Salvation developed more slowly than the question of other works of man commonly required witihin religion for man’s eternal salvation, advocates of “Lordship” or Bilateral Contract Salvation are embedded within the framework of evangelicalism, and generally regarded as a different “flavor” of the evangelical faith.
Ultimately, however, there is no theological distinction between corrupt systems of theology that require works, such as water baptism, to be performed prior to gaining salvation, and corrupt theological systems that require the promise of future works in exchange for salvation. Any gospel presentation that makes, as a requirement for gaining eternal salvation, repentance from one’s sins, committing one’s life to Christ, making Christ the “Lord” (master) of one’s life, becoming a disciple of Christ, and other equivalent statements that require a promise of future behavior (Romans 5:8; Titus 3:5), is heresy.”
http://www.cleargospel.org/topics.php?t_id=14&c_id=40
Hi again Fryingpan 9,
You are developing a good sense of discernment about the evils of Lordship “Salvation” teaching. Platt is just another of many modern preachers who promote this unbiblical nonsense. Try to be loving to your friend yet hold a firm stance on the gospel of grace: we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16-18; Romans 4:5; Titus 3:5; Acts 16:30-31). You may want to point him to this web site. Also, you may want to tell him about countless lives which have been damaged through Lordship Salvation’s decimation of assurance of faith.
Here’s an article that you may find helpful as well:
Click to access DRIVEN_byB_Bauer.pdf
I recently found out that a young man who started a home fellowship in my neighborhood, and in which I’ve been participating since last autumn, is apparently a big fan of David Platt. I’ve not spoken to him about this since he mentioned Platt’s name for the first time because this was almost a month ago and at the time I barely recognized Platt’s name, let alone who he was or what his theology was all about, and I haven’t seen or spoken to this young man since then.
A few months ago this weekly home fellowship branched off to include a monthly men’s breakfast as well. The next one is tomorrow morning. I have reason to think that this young man’s involvement w/ Platt involves more than just listening to his podcasts, but there’s no sense adding more to that just yet.
What thoughts, counsel or advice can anyone here give me about what I can, should or should not do in terms of bringing up this topic or not? At worst I may end up having to break fellowship w/ him but I don’t want to do anything hasty especially when I’m so new to the concept of Free Grace thinking.
(For those of you familiar with me and my mention of this neighborhood home fellowship, please note this is NOT the friend I mentioned who also attends this group who recently expressed an interest in learning more about Free Grace and Lordship Salvation/Calvinism.)
Thank you!
John W,
Welcome to our discussion.
I added your initial W, presuming that is correct. If not please correct me. We have a regular who signs his comments as “John,” so your initial will differentiate you from him. Thanks.
Excellent point you make. Obviously the Alabama Baptist must be SBC, which is recently noted for doctrines all over the map. Platt (Southern Baptist) and Chan (??) are both admitted Calvinists and they are LS. Baptists have preached LS for a long tine — and now we see them becoming New Calvinists. What a shame.
Glad to have you with us, Please come back — you will feel right at home here.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
I just read an article in the Alabama Baptist paper for Nov 29 featuring David Platt, Francis Chan, and Todd Proctor. Here is the opening quote from Francis, “We don’t understand the gravity of coming before God one day and telling him we didn’t make a single disciple.” They say their conference was viewed by 100,000 people. What a beating those poor people must have endured. This LS stuff is as old as dirt. When Adam knew he had sinned he made for himself a covering of fig leaves. Religious leaders having been promoting Jesus plus or a cover charge (I love that) since day one, how pitiful to think we can add anything to His Finished work at the cross. Just a side note the only thing our Redeemer ever cursed was guess what? A fig tree.
Bruce, it is great that you alerted the young pastor to his error. I join Pearl in praying that this young man will take your counsel to heart. Funerals can give folks an opportunity to stop and reflect on their eternal destiny. What an awesome opportunity to preach the Gospel. What an awesome responsibility to preach it accurately.
Thanks Bruce (and Levi).
Really too bad that the young man didn’t follow up with a response to the info you sent him, regardless of its tone. Stone-cold silence is rarely a good sign. Of course, there’s always hope and we can pray for him. I like to think that your hearing his eulogy and contacting him afterward was a sort of divine appointment, to which he’ll either cover his ears and shut his eyes or he’ll dare to consider the very real possibility that he’s been duped. Naturally, the latter always hurts.
Hi Pearl,
Thanks, as always, for your insights.
I’ve been chewing on one of your statements:
“In my opinion, this is where their subtle poison does the most damage (devouring the Church from the inside).”
Wow, Pearl, that is a powerful statement: “devouring the Church from the inside.”
I am seeing your statement borne out widely among the young Christian leadership, even at my own church. I recently attended a funeral in which a twenty-something youth pastor gave the eulogy (I have heard that he is a fan of Mark Driscoll). He camped heavily upon Romans 10:9, especially on the part about confessing with your mouth, using it as a call to salvation, which it is not. I emailed him and sent to him a link to one of our recent posts that explains Romans 10:9. He has not responded. This incident is just a microcosm of what must go on in churches throughout the nation.
Hello Everyone
Hi Bruce…
I was just wondering if these men ever listen to themselves. For one to call himself a Calvinist he must buy into all those things of John Calvin…. The good (which I have yet to see)…. the bad (all the doctrines of Calvin and the ones that grow out it)….and the ugly (The RCC).
Have these men gone so far down the road of Calvinism that they can not turn back or refuse to? Either way it is still bad.
Nice post Pearl..I had a good laugh too.
Levi
Lou and Jim F,
Thanks for that info — we have had a problem with NIU, Holland, the CCM/Rock, etc and reported on some of it. Olsen seems to be bound and determined to bring the world and false doctrine into NIU.
And speaking of NIU’s doctrinal change, I have a young relative who attended NIU. He is the son of an IFB preacher. The son was there when Holland and bunch gave their presentations. This young man was already leaning Calvinist after his first year there. He graduated a full fledged radical 5 point Calvinist. He is now Youth Pastor in a church in Southern California. He told me he “had an understanding with the church Board about his beliefs.”
The young man requested ordination from the church he was serving and requested his Pastor Dad be there on the Ordination Board. Dad, knowing his son’s error consented to come and participate. But at the board meeting, Dad asked his son to explain details of his theology. The son did so and the board voted him down. No ordination. I appreciate his Dad standing against his own son’s error and for the Truth.
However, the son has not budged an inch in his Calvinism and he is still at the same church teaching the Youth. Amazing.
In Jesus eternally, Jack
Hi Jim F:
Good to hear from you. You wrote, “David Platt’s talk about cultural Christians reminds me of Dr. Olson’s latest moves at Northland International University.”
I was going to mention that earlier, but did not. Without question Matt Olson has taken a once fine separatist, Baptist institution into the world’s culture. The irony is that the first open and obvious sign that he had changed the trajectory of Northland International University (NIU) was the invitation of Rick Holland to the NIU chapel and classrooms.
(At the time Rick Holland the Executive pastor at MacArthur;s church and Holland is the founder of the CCM/Rock conference “Resolved.”)
That invitation to Holland followed Olson along with Sam Horn, Les Ollila and Doug MacLachlan going to CA to meet with MacArthur, Phil Johnson and Rick Holland.
My point is that in Rick Holland, NIU put its impressionable students under the ministry of a man who a Lordship Salvation teacher and in the fore-front of bringing the world’s anti-God musical forms into the New Testament church. Northland has steadily slid into worsening forms of worldliness since that time. At my blog I document all of this, including videos of how cultural relativism has become the norm at Northland.
Lou
The parallels are striking, aren’t they? Kinda like Obama telling us we all need to make sacrifices and “do our part”. Yeah, very “funny” coming from him. It’s not hard to imagine the up-and-coming “state” church. These guys will be running the show.
John and Pearl,
Great quips….
John
Wonderful illustration: “a cover charge to get into heaven.” Such an accurate depiction of LS teaching.
Pearl
Now that is a picture of the snobs and elites who preach LS… They “don’t really do all that much, do they, except sip from their Starbucks and point?” I laughed when I read that. Such a great visual of the Liberal Left.. in politics and LS “theology.”
In Christ eternally, Jack
Abe,
Good points!!
We see the trend — Lordship “salvation” promoters like Platt always equate “following Christ” (one’s works) with trusting Christ as Savior (accepting God’s free Gift). They transform discipleship into a requirement for salvation. Both are contrary to God’s Biblical Free Grace salvation.
They and their ilk are multiplying like germs in a sewer – and people are hell-bound because of their teaching.
Thanks for joining us in spreading the Antiseptic of the free grace Gospel of our Savior — by Grace alone through Faith alone in Jesus alone!!
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
But slave drivers and cattle prodders don’t really do all that much, do they, except sip from their Starbucks and point?
Hi Levi,
Very interesting points. The phrase that you cite, “Allowing the Lord to rule over us,” reminds me of a kindred expression, “Making Jesus the Lord of your life.” How arrogant are these men! Jesus IS Lord, in spite of any puny declaration that you or I might make.
Hello Everyone
I do not believe these men will not bring any thing new to the table with their arguments. And why should they. Their numbers are growing.
These men are Calvinist right? I hope they do understand that the form of “salvation” they preach requires free will. And the idea of “Allowing the Lord to rule over us” means that the creation is higher then the creator.
Levi
Pearl, you made a great point. Not only do these guys teach that there is a cover charge to get into heaven, they also teach that being saved automatically manifests itself in radically transformed behavior.
I guess to Platt and the rest of his ilk, “radical” means as devoted as they are. If they are giving 110%, they better hope that no one else is giving 120%.
Hi Lou, all
David Platt’s talk about cultural Christians reminds me of Dr. Olson’s latest moves at Northland International University. He seems to be on the bandwagon that says that there is a fundamentalist Christian culture and that it is a bad thing. Therefore, the best thing to do is to attempt to become more “culturally” relevant. Package in with that the LS gospel and you have a combination that will end up doing just the opposite of what they are hoping to accomplish. I find it ironic when they say, “…we must be biblically clear about saving faith, lest any of us lead people down a very dangerous and potentially damning road of spiritual deception.” The sad thing here is that those who view scripture through the lens of reformed theology and cultural relativism are much more likely to lead people down a non-saving and or unfruitful path.
Platt: “who have never counted the cost of following Christ”
What is the cost of a free gift? While discipleship requires a counting, yet salvation is as easy as John 3:16.
But since Platt doesn’t think so, what has Platt given up, done, counted, lost, surrendered? It seems to me that he lives a cushy life selling books ($$$), so where is this great cost that cost him so much? It sounds like everything cost him nothing, so what’s his problem?
I really appreciate how you all break it down to the nitty-gritty reality that these people are so obviously injecting works into the gospel message. That covers the blind leading the blind, but what gets me is how they so successfully undermine and taint the genuine faith of existing believers by their insistence that a saved person will have new desires, that is to say, according to them, a genuine believer will be a radical Christian. In my opinion, this is where their subtle poison does the most damage (devouring the Church from the inside). The main by-products I’ve consistently seen come from this line of thinking are either self-righteous Christians (the same ones who insert quotation marks around the term Christian when referring to the bulk of American Christians) or burned-out, broken people who have since abandoned the faith (and no wonder!).
But, the very sobering truth of the matter is that a vast majority of people claiming to be Christian may very well be lost, but not for the same reason the LSers insist, but because virtually all gospel presentations are wrong, and few there be who even recognize the difference let alone teach it.
Bruce,
Excellent article. I have a very special Granddaughter who attended Platt’s church for a short while — but now sees the error. I sent her the link to help confirm her understanding. Thanks.
Lou, John, David — great comments from all of you. We are blessed that you take the time to express your Biblical and determinative thoughts here.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Bruce’s excellent article today on David Platt really gets to the core of Lordship “salvation.”
Particularly striking were these quotes from Platt:
“In a day of rampant easy-believism that creates cultural Christians who do not know Christ, who have never counted the cost of following Christ, we must be biblically clear about saving faith, lest any of us lead people down a very dangerous and potentially damning road of spiritual deception.”
My comment: Salvation is a free gift. There is not a “cost to count” for eternal salvation. If there were, salvation would no longer be by Grace, but by works.
Platt:
“To be born-again, one must repent, turn from sin and self, and believe, trust in Jesus as the Savior who died for us and the Lord who rules over us.”
My comment: This is really the crux of LS. Platt says we must not only trust in Christ as Savior in order to be born again. No, he says we must also “turn from sin” (works) and accept Jesus as Lord who rules over us (implicit obedience – the promise of future works) in addition to believing. This is exactly what is being taught by Billy Graham and the SBC.
Purveyors of LS have turned the Good News into Bad News!
Thanks Lou!
Great comments as always. I, too, sensed that Platt was, as you say, being groomed as part of the next generation of LS promoters/preachers. It appears to me that each new generation gets more “radical” than the last.
Very informative on the affiliations of Dever, Piper and MacArthur. I was not aware of all of that.
Thanks for this informative article. No surprises here, Platt is one of the young guns that the older men in the so-called “conservative” evangelicalism are grooming and promoting to be the next wave of star personalities at their conference. And Platt would not be featured by them if he was not one of them in the Lordship Salvation camp. He parrots the same Pro-LS mantra qualifiers that he learned from men like MacArthur.
Platt wrote, “In a day of rampant easy-believism that creates cultural Christians who do not know Christ, who have never counted the cost of following Christ….”
Whether it is absurd, willful blindness or ignorance I’m not sure. It is, however, clear that some of the most carnal and/or “cultural Christians” can be found among the group Platt fellowships with. From Dever & Piper and their affinity for CCM/RAP to John MacArthur’s Resolved Rock/CCM meetings these are the “cultural” relativism advocates in the NT church.
LM
The frustrating thing to me is that we’re to try and do what God has already done for us in Christ. When we believe on Him and His finished work on Calvary for us, we HAVE come from darkness to light and death to life. It is not faith to say we have to do these things before we can be saved, it is wicked presumption, as if we have to “help God out” as Sara tried to do. I know I’m preaching to the choir here, and by the way, y’all sing real pretty! God Bless.
The frustrating and sad thing to me is that when someone comes to Christ, aka believes in His finished work for them, they HAVE come from death to life, darkness to light. (Jn.5:24) Why try to do something that God has already done for us in Christ? That’s not faith, that’s wicked presumption, saying that His work is subpar on its own, and we need to “help God out” like Sara tried to with Hagar. Anyway, I know I’m preaching to the choir, and by the way, y’all sing real pretty! God Bless you.
Did you notice Platt’s use of the standard LS bogus “qualifiers” to faith?