This is an alert for our readers:
A much-publicized Christian “impact” conference is coming to Miami, FL this weekend, February 10-12. It is youth-oriented, having rock-style music and fiery preaching. Some of the keynote speakers are quite well known in the Christian community. Some come from churches and Christian organizations which have solid grace-oriented statements of faith and salvation. But please be forewarned that some of the speakers are from churches or ministries supporting Calvinist/Lordship Faith teachings.
Here are some of the speakers speaking at the ONE Conference:
Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham, President of Samaritan’s Purse, a worldwide help organization
Frank Harrison, a Coca Cola executive and well-known Christian conference speaker
Francis Chan, Conference Speaker, Author, radical Lordship Faith promoter (see any of the many articles on the Expreacherman site for more detail on his teaching).
Bob Coy, Calvary Chapel, Ft. Lauderdale
Brian Houston, Hillsong Church, Sydney; Carl Lentz, Hillsong, NYC. Hillsong Church has a troublesome LS type statement of faith regarding salvation: “We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the ‘new birth’ we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.”
James MacDonald, Harvest Bible Chapel, Chicago. The Harvest Bible Chapel statement on salvation is equally troublesome to the Hillsong statement, again, promoting a Calvinist/ Lordship Faith salvation plan. It reads,
“We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, as the substitutionary atonement in our place, and that salvation is found in none other than Jesus Christ. Before Creation, God chose those who would be saved and granted this unearned grace solely based on His sovereign good pleasure. Jesus Christ’s death on the cross was the sole and complete payment for sins, fully satisfying God’s righteous wrath, for each person that turns from sin in repentance and places their faith in Christ alone by grace alone. At salvation each person is made a new creation by the Holy Spirit, declared righteous before God, and secured as an adopted child of God forever. Genuine faith continues in obedience and love for Jesus Christ with a life eager to glorify God and persevere to the end.”
Rich Wilkerson, The Rendezvous, Miami. The ministry’s statement on salvation is more toward the Biblical Ephesians 2:8-9: “This justification is imputed by the grace of God because of the atoning work of Christ, is received by faith alone . . .” However, “repentance” as a term is used but not defined and fruits of the spirit and a holy life are expected evidences of true salvation.
Britt Merrick, Reality Church, Santa Barbara. The church is self-described as “missional” in focus, but does not appear to be connected with the neo-Calvinist movement. Decent statement of belief: “We Believe in the absolute necessity of regeneration by the Holy Spirit for salvation because of the exceeding sinfulness of the human nature, and that all are justified on the single ground of faith in the shed blood of Christ, and that only by God’s grace through faith alone are we saved.”
Greg Laurie, Harvest Church, Riverside, CA. Well-known radio Bible teacher and conference speaker (Harvest Crusades).
Scott Harrison, founder of clean water well-building worldwide help organization called, “WATER.”
Ed Young, Fellowship Church, Dallas. Pretty solid statements of belief on salvation and eternal security: “Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God’s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin’s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. . . . Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in that salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God [John 10:27-30], not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security.”
Pedro Garcia, Calvary Church Kendall, Miami. Statement of faith looks alright, but, sadly, the web site recommends books by Calvinist or LS writers like John Stott, Francis Chan and Timothy Keller.
Miles McPherson, Rock Church, San Diego. Web site’s heading on its statement of belief regarding salvation bore the questionable wording, “Repent and Believe.” But upon downloading the complete statement it presented a grace gospel message.
Christine Caine, Equip and Empower Ministries, Sydney. Statement on salvation looked fine.
That’s about it for now. Feel free to check out these individuals on your own as well. Please let us know if you have any additional information or warnings about the ONE conference or about any of its speakers.
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Holly, thanks for the additional info.
It sounds like both should be avoided.
People like Rick Warren,Tim Keller, etc., they are the types of neo or new Calvinists. They look to Abraham Kuyper, Cornelius Plantiga Jr., Richard Mouw. The more ‘classic’ Calvinists look to people like Calvin, Knox, Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, (in the past) and in the present teachers like D.A. Carson, Albert Mohler, Wayne Grudem.
I only know this because the question came up recently, but the regular Calvinists are the TULIP adherents, and the neo Calvinists embrace some of the same but teach other things like Common grace but other than that, couldn’t fill you in much more.
Peg, thanks for your question.
This article was written years ago by one of our former administrators.
I think he was using the term “neo-Calvinist” to refer to a new generation of particularly strident Calvinist/Lordship “salvationists.”
I don’t really know what, if any, differences there are between “traditional calvinism” and “neo-calvinism.”
We do not support Calvinism in any form.
This article mentioned Neo-calvinism. How is it different from traditional calvinism? Thanks.
Don’t get me wrong.. I’ve been the same way before. and I found if funny at some of the things I said and did before. I know this is serious but I can’t help it sometimes… I wish I could help Pedro like to have a chat with him cause I know this is heaven or hell…
Hi Eddy, you posted this about Pedro Garcia
“Jesus come in to my life, forgive me of my sin. I want to walk with you. I want to turn away from my life and I want to get on you path and your purpose and your plan.”
I’m sorry but I found the line “Turn away from my life” quite funny… Sound’s like suicide or something.. too deep for me..
Those times make me feel so sad for the people they attack and condemn, it is exactly what they did, but what the enemy meant for your harm, the Lord used for your good. You will be able to comfort others too with the comfort you have been given. Can you imagine how these people will be held accountable for making a young one stumble?
I don’t know how all of them have quit sinning, but I sure haven’t been able to. I know one thing, spending time with the Lord hearing His Word is the best thing I can do. I need Him, evidently they do not.
Their ‘program’ is not His plan… Praise God you saw through them.
Hello Holly. Sadly they did feel I was unsaved but did not present the gospel to me. I was told my repentance was fake like Saul’s. They defined repentance as turn from sin rather than a change of mind though. At the time I was ignorant of the true meaning of repentance. I was instead presented a laundry list of discipleship requirements that if not present in my life, meant I was unsaved. I had doubts of my salvation because of my sin habit and they seemed to try to play off of that. I felt attacked and condemned,certainly not loved. I do remember quoting Eph. 2:8-9 to them but it fell on deaf ears. I was searching for the truth of salvation and didn’t believe what they were telling me so I quit their program after only a few days. It wasn’t until I stumbled on this site that I believe I found the truth, that is that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. There seem to be very few that actually uphold salvation as a truly free gift, with no works attached.
Very good Curtis… so true, if we’re honest, even our thoughts accuse us… thankfully, He is the faithful and the just one, and able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Jon, I am sorry I missed your post from a year ago, but glad I read it now. Like Saul… wow… I marvel. If they felt you were not saved, where was their wisdom? Their grace or salt in their speech? (Col 4:5-6) Where was the gospel (Rom 1:16-17, 1 Cor 1:17-18). Why did they not lovingly point you to it so you could be saved?
Sad for others, sad for them, for they don’t see their own hardness… blind leading the blind…
This saddens me to see a leader fall. It also angers me personally because this is what a twisted gospel does it causes a soul to focus on sin management and when a soul does that guess what you get ? more sin management.as in “turning from sin proves salvation”.
I was tormented by my thoughts as a believer person from being under the influence of a performance gospel. It wasn’t until Eph 2:8-9 and studying Gods word for myself of who I am in Christ that i am set free from my self condemning and impure thoughts..
The only thing that separates me from falling in same trap as Mr Coy is about (__) that much Grace .if it could even be measured but God does say
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Sin is to be confessed and condemned to Hell not toyed around with “Trying” to manage it . ( this is for fellowship NOT eternal Life)
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Come To God with Sin and agree with Him it is Sin and He is a rewarder of the that diligently seek Him.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Curtis
johninnc, that is a great quote. It fits this, and really every LS teacher. Never have I gotten a good answer to the question, “Have you turned from all of your sins?”
Abe, I agree. I don’t know how LSers think they have done what they say others must do in order to be saved. Following is a great quote from Tom Cucuzza on this topic:
Well don’t you think Christians ought to live right and turn from sin? Yes. But, you said the key word: “Christians”. Not lost people. To say to a lost person “you have to turn from all your sin to go to heaven”, let me ask you a question: Have you turned from all your sin?
If you go to a church where the pastor says that, go up and ask him sometime – in kindness and humility – say, “pastor, have you turned from all your sin?” See what he says. “Well, I’m trying.” Trying’s not the same as doing it. And, by the way, did you just notice what you said? You are doing what? Trying!
So, wait a minute! You’re telling me to go to heaven I have to try to turn from all my sins. What is that? That’s works. You’re trying to make it. That’s works. Friend, no! It’s not of works, lest any man should boast. The good news is Jesus did all the work when He died on the cross, and all He asks you to do is to trust in Him that He did that for you. And He gives you everlasting life.
Now, shouldn’t Christians live right? Yes! Yes, Christians should live right. That’s what James is all about. But, not to get to heaven. It’s because we have the gift of salvation, and we’re going to heaven. That’s grace.
Don’t put the cart before the horse! You’ll end up in hell!
Not to throw salt on a wound or pick on the fallen… but I have to talk about this. Bob Coy, pastor of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, has stepped down as pastor, having been involved in several affairs and long-term pornography. This isn’t gossip, as it is out in the public forum at this point, and Coy has admitted it all.
Coy has long been a lordship salvationist in his definition of the Gospel. That a person must repent of (as in, turn from) all known sins, to be saved. He has said that again and again, and his website reaffirms this belief.
So what do they do with these beliefs, when it is Coy that has not turned from these sins for years. Again I am not saying this to judge him, or to attack him. But to expose the doctrine. Coy has bludgeoned thousands of people with this false gospel. Now, does that same belief apply to him?
This was always the question I had about those that teach LS. If they fall, do they apply the same LS “rules” to themselves?
Excellent post Holly, I really appreciated reading that. A couple years ago I received an email from a man who was supposed to be a kind of ‘mentor’ to me. I had joined this ‘support’ group for people with different kinds of addictions. Well the things he said to me in that email just tore me up inside. I was told that i was “just like Saul” among other things. And being told you probably weren’t saved was part of the curriculum also. I feel sorry for all the people who go to that site looking for help and instead get blasted by Calvinism or whatever brand of LS they are pushing. They even kept a quote from one guy who said he was always taught once saved, always saved. They said he was an example of someone who was deceived or something along those lines. Love and the Gospel of Grace were nowhere to be found there.
How often I am sure many of these type of people talked about me and said I wasn’t saved. I sure enough had quite dirty feet from this world, but I was already clean. I thank the Lord I just NEEDED Him through trials and griefs (chastisement that I sure appreciate) and so I started to try to do what I knew I needed, time in His Word and trying to acknowledge Him in all my ways. But even then I knew I needed help, I was so without strength or the desire to do right, but that came with time and with His help.
But it was HARD, because these preachers were still there accusing day and night, “you were never saved if _________________”. And I think every blank that they filled in fit me almost every one. I never heard them ask though if people believed the gospel, their answer for that seems to be the one from James regarding even demons believing….
And the most ironic part to me, for people who believe they can finish in the flesh, and actually NEED to in order to PROVE they are saved, wow can they get vicious, and sarcastic, and rude, and accusatory, and judgmental. Funny, they also seem to miss that they are not to judge the unsaved. But that’s their whole platform it seems; accuse people of never having been saved…. It must make them feel better, thinking that they must be saved, because they cry crocodile tears over the “false converts”, and have “shocking messages” and live “radical Christian lives” and sell books telling either the lost or the deceived or young in the Lord, how they too can have the same experiences…and just as “rad” as they are…
How thankful I am that none of it ever made sense to me. How it couldn’t hold my attention. So thankful to Him…
Thomas,
Welcome, we are happy to have you here and appreciate your comment.
You are alert and discerning.. Ed Young, Jr. is a preacher of false messages as you have found. Good work.
Come back frequently,
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Ed Young just stated on his radio broadcast on XM radio that true belief will produce fruit. Date is 4/24/13. His message was about Love. Etc. It should bear fruit, but many after trusting Christ are led astray through the world’s temptations or they are never taken aside and discipled. Grace is so easy and Satan has been adding works since the fall. Satan is very good at counterfeiting the truth.
If you posted that Rogues Gallery I’d probably have it memorized. The names at least . . .
For now I’m rejoicing in the fact that my wife is behind me in this. So far, other than people who post on this blog and Dr. Ralph Arnold I feel like a voice in the wilderness.
And of course I rejoice in knowing that, while I can’t seem to vouch for many people in my “inner circle” (if any, besides my wife) I know what I’m trusting in for my salvation. “My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.”
Fryingpan,
Abe is right…
You may be surprised how many “evangelical” preachers/teachers coalesce around Lordship “Salvation”, Calvinism, Eastern Mysticism, Contemplative, Spiritual Formation, Ecumenicism and other odd-ball false teachings.
It amazes me how the simple truths of Scripture can be twisted completely away from the intended Salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone in Jesus Christ alone message.
We may be wise, here at ExP, to post a verifiable compiled Rogues Gallery (with quotes) from those folks who skirt the Truth and “preach another gospel.” (Galatians 1:6-9)
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Rick Warren has spoken at so many Greg Laurie events, that it is impossible to list all the times it has happened. And the two of them routinely speak at each others’ churches. And Coy identified the PDL as recommended reading in his church. And all three are LS’ers.
Wow, I had no idea they both supported Rick Warren. That’s an eye opener.
Thanks, Abe. I really appreciate it.
Coy and Laurie both have heavy LS leanings, they both support Rick Warren, they both will team up in ministry with calvinists too.
Wow, this is a LONG thread. I think perhaps I need to spend more time on my knees in prayer and reading God’s Word, but I’ve been helped SO much by this blog in recent weeks that it’s becoming a discipline in itself to beat my body into submission (so to speak) and to not rely solely on the articles and comments shared here.
That said, I’ve mentioned in another thread that I’m investigating and reviewing what the Calvary Chapel* where I currently fellowship believes and I noticed this article singles out Bob Coy and Greg Laurie.
Those two stand out the most for me because my pastor and our assistant pastor, unless I am having a false memory, both attended Coy’s CC in Florida before founding a CC here in my state.
And our church sponsored Greg’s Harvest America event last summer.
Other than just reading what’s in this thread (and the attached resources), does anyone have anything to share to shed more light on why it should be a no-brainer for me to mark Coy and Laurie as false teachers or whatever?
I appreciate everyone’s help and patience. I feel like I’m taking up a lot of bandwidth on this blog lately, but I also feel like I’m under serious attack and want to be sure I’m diligently seeking the truth while the truth can still be found. I sometimes wake up very depressed and confused so I’m convinced the enemy is trying to sow seeds of doubt and second guessing.
Thanks again!
*Yesterday Jack advised me to review their Statement of Faith. I did, and it clearly spews the same “turn from sin” clap trap so prevalent in the church today. They obviously understand “repent” to ONLY mean “to turn from” so it’s quite disappointing. I’m meeting w/ my pastor today so hopefully I can help be a part of the solution w/ God’s help and your prayers.
Andy, the common theme with LS is that its adherents think one has to be good to go to Heaven. The reality is that one must be perfect to enter into Heaven.
Andy, we know from scripture that the popular path may not be the right path.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.”
Thank you for the welcome, everyone! This feels like a refuge.
I was on a message board the other day discussing these issues about salvation, and I was really surprised to see a Russian orthodox, a Calvary Chapel pastor, a Lutheran, and a Calvinist all agree with one another about LS. I was quite ganged up on, and I want to learn to answer with love and grace and then just let it go, instead of feeling defensive about it. But the amazing thing was how they all agreed with each other, and found perfect unity with each other in LS. Even as they all disagree on so many other issues, that didn’t matter to them.
Welcome Andy,
You are very perceptive..
The combination of Bruce and John’s summaries of Lordship “faith” errors are excellent — yet they shine the light into a sad commentary on Bible teachers and churches today.
We must be aware of and avoid such false teaching while encouraging those we know who hold to the Truth. That is what we attempt to do here at ExPreacherMan.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Welcome Andy!
Most of the stuff passing for Christianity, going way back, has been works-oriented, works-assisted, or works-proving salvation. The revered icons of evangelism from recent history have been at the epicenter of this phenomenon (including the Grahams, Charles Spurgeon, etc.). The major denominations are in lock-step with these false teachings. See link below:
https://expreacherman.com/2007/03/14/who-makes-these-errors/
People who are believers often aid and abet LS by blithely going to LS churches, looking past errant teachings that touch on the Gospel, giving confusing teaching the benefit of the doubt, apologizing for the Gospel with caveats, willful blindness, wanting to fit it, and by not taking a stand. This website is a rare exception.
LS is pervasive. It may start with inadvertent corruption of the Gospel message through adherence to non-biblical traditions and end with outright denial of the atonement.
Some “yellow flags”:
1. Acceptance of gospel substitutes, such as “ask Jesus into your heart”
2. Language that makes it sound like one gives something to Jesus to become saved, such as “I gave my life to Jesus”
3. Introduction of a prayer into the invitation. I know many Grace-oriented ministries that do this, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why. This only serves to confuse
4. Invitations that suggest asking Jesus to save you
5. Altar calls
6. Affiliation with LS groups, through denominational affiliation, use of materials written by known LS advocates, joint outreach programs with LS advocates, etc.
Some “red flags” (statements of faith or teachings that include things like)::
1. “Repent of sins” for salvation or “surrender control of your life to Jesus” for salvation (denial of Grace)
2. “Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior” (Lordship salvation – implies pledge of obedience in addition to belief required for salvation)
3. The Holy Spirit indwells anyone who has accepted Jesus as both Lord and Savior (this is a ploy by groups that have read Ephesians 2:8, but don’t really believe it)
4. Fruit inspection – of self or others (backdoor LS or perseverance of the saints)
5. Links to LS books, ministries, etc.- refusal to mark and avoid false teachers
Welcome Andy!
Thanks for your comments. Yes, LS teaching is so pervasive! I, too, have found it popping up all over the place. I am saddened to hear your report about Greg Laurie’s recent preaching. There was a time many years ago when I considered him to be a young up-and-coming preacher/evangelist. Back then, I didn’t pick up on any LS emphasis. Perhaps it was there in its early stages, but I may not have been in tune to it.
Interesting to me how all these guys can differ on tons of doctrines, yet they are all LS advocates, so that makes it alright. Not one of them will preach the Gospel sans LS. I once heard a Greg Laurie sermon about losing salvation that was more hard core LS than anyone you could imagine. And the Grahams have always been LS.
Correction:
“I counsel thee” instead of just “counsel thee” in Rev 3:18.
Dear John,
Based on my observation, many preachers from time to time preach the free grace Gospel, but in their hearts they still believe in the free grace + works Gospel.
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.” Luke 6:45
When they preach the free grace Gospel, they are only preaching part of what they believe, the free grace part. From time to time, they will spill out the remaining part of their beliefs, which is the works-based gospel. I would classify my ex-pastor Rod Hembree in such category. He proclaim the free grace gospel, yet he is still holding onto the works-based gospel at the same time. He is very sure of his salvation, even joked about more than once in his sermons by making appointment with another professing christian to meet up with together in a coffee shop in Jerusalem at certain date and time in the millennium. He is deceiving himself and deceiving others. I ask God to open his eyes in my prayers.
The false prophets are attracting toward each other. Ron Humbree is sitting on the board of directors of Chuck Missler’s ministries. Ron was on Billy Graham’s team before. Franklin Graham is his good friend.
Many of the false prophets are very successful in their ventures and they are very confident that they will go to heaven. It is very difficult to change their minds.We have to pray for them, peradventure God will soften their hearts. However, we should not sympathize with them. If we truly love them, we should mark them and rebuke them. Besides, they are people with great influence. Not only they are not entering the gate of heaven, they are preventing many others to enter. Let us not forget that they are working for Satan, not for Christ. They are spiritually our enemies, not our friends. Love them and pray for them, but do not tolerate them. They belonged to the corrupt tree.
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:17-18
Tolerance is not the same as love. We should not give any impression to them and to other unbelievers that they are saved. According to their confessions of the grace plus works gospel, they are not saved. If we think they are saved, are we not becoming fruit inspectors? Are we not inspecting their other attributes, such as they claim they are Christians and being recognized by many as “great men of God”, their sincerity and their “good works”, rather than base on their confessions of the Gospel to determine whether they are saved of not? I completely agree with you and Jack that we should treat them as unsaved. They are not much different than any other who believed in any other religions. The only difference is they use God’s name in vain, as compare to people in other religions worshiping in the names of their pagan gods. These false prophets are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They put on their sheep’s clothing when they are preaching the free grace portion of their gospel. However, deep down they are still wolves. They are showing their true natures when they preach the works-based portion of their gospel. When they look themselves in a mirror at a distance, they see themselves as sheep. They don’t want to look too closely to the mirror, unless they stare at their own eyes and discovered they are wolfs. That is why they are so hostile if someone confronting them with the free grace Gospel. As for the foolish Galatians, they would be very pleased if someone confront them with the Gospel of Christ, the Gospel they believed in at the moment they got saved. True believers love liberty in Christ, while false believers love the aprons they made for themselves, which is the self-righteous works-based gospel.
I also agree with you Billy and Franklin Graham are both LS and ecumenical. If one watch some of the video footages from the Lausanne Conference 2010, one will have better understanding on the spiritual atmosphere we are in. Except few of those walking on the narrow way, the vast majority in the Christendom are on the broad way. It is my opinion that Rev. 3:17-18 is an accurate description of the current worldwide works-based counterfeit christianity.
Google: “CAPE TOWN 2010: THE THIRD LAUSANNE CONGRESS ON WORLD EVANGELIZATION”
“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.” Rev 3:17-18
Eddy, I was attending a small SBC church for a while last year. The pastor seemed to have a good Grace focus, but also told me that he believed the troublesome SBC statement of faith sections on repentance and commitment.
In addition, the church had a small group of deacons, two of whom were full-time employees of the Graham ministry.
Billy and Franklin Graham always seem to be in the mix with the LS/ecumenical movement.
Dear Eddy,
Thanks — I agree with Bruce — your comment is right at home here..
Come on over to the new article if you have a great idea — you always do.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi Eddy,
Thanks for all of your research. Your comments fit well in this spot. Keep up the good work.
I just found out that both Frank Harrison and Greg Laurie are board members of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I also came across this article written by Greg Laurie.
Google: “BGEA Greg Laurie How to know you’re a Christian”
The saddest moment is when I read the comments given by various people’s responses to his article. Please pray for all the false prophets and all of their followers. Unless they change their minds and put their trust in Christ alone, they are believing in vain.
Dear Jack,
Please move this post to the “Accursed or Innocent? Lordship “Salvation” Teachers.” thread if you think that is more appropriate.
Dear friends,
Carrying this thread a step further my new post shows the problems and poses the question, “Why?”
Accursed or Innocent? Lordship “Salvation” Teachers.
https://expreacherman.com/2012/02/11/accursed-or-innocent-lordship-salvation-teachers/
Let’s discuss it.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Eddy, thanks for all of your work exposing these false teachers. Like you said, we are involved in spiritual warfare against all of this and more every day.
Once I understood the Gospel, I could not for the life of me determine why people prefer the false gospels. I think they are scared to let go of personal involvement in their own salvation. People’s hard hearts are being further hardened by these false teachers. Let’s pray for these peoples’ hearts to be softened. Let’s pray that whatever it is that is keeping them from believing will lose its grip on them.
Dear Jimmy, John, Jack, Pearl, and Bruce,
Thank you all for your encouragement and comments. I praise our Lord for allowing us to use this blog to glorify His name. I hope there are more innocent souls, including those false prophets, coming here to read your comments and have understanding. I believe many of the false prophets are sincerely preaching the gospel that they believe in. In other words, they preach the works-based gospel because of their unbelief. They are deceiving themselves and deceiving others. So many people are willing to pay $39 per day in order to be able to listen to these false prophets who are reflective of their own unbelief. Many of them would rather believe in the Lordship Salvation gospel than the free grace Gospel. This is indeed a very strange phenomenon that I can only attribute to the hardening of people’s hearts in the last days that we live in just before Christ’s return.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].” Ephesians 6:12
Hi Eddy,
Thanks for all of the hard work!
Regarding your quotation of Matthew 7:15-23, great verses and you used them in the proper context as a warning against false prophets, which IS the intended meaning of the passage. Keep in mind that the Lordship Faith camp loves to use this same passage to support its works-based gospel message. They glom onto these verses as if they apply to all churchgoers as a litmus test of who is really saved and who isn’t. To LS teachers like Francis Chan only the superchristians (those who are not lukewarm, whatever that means) are considered good enough to be saved. If they ever try to use this text against you, simply remind them that the section is directed at FALSE PROPHETS, not at all professing Christians in general.
Eddy, wow! It just never stops.
I came accross the following quote from Christine Caine’s Equip and Empower Ministries website.
“Dear Jesus,
Right now, I want to make the decision to stop living my life my own way, and begin living it Your way. I ask that You would forgive me for all my sins, give me a brand-new start today and a hope for the future. I want to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, for the rest of my life. Amen.”
No kidding, Eddy. That had to be a weary exercise. Do you feel like you need to follow it up with a long, hot shower? Maybe scream in a pillow? One way I often refresh my mind (or to keep from fretting) is to go to bed, wearing my headphones listening to Alexander Scourby’s reading of the King James bible. Hard to beat that!
Thanks Eddy,
For all that great research on the speakers at the One conference. The group seems to be a conglomeration of works-based false teachers.
Why would any respectable, responsible Grace church or Pastor associate with them in any way?
Very sad.. but even more reason to expose their lies.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Miles McPherson said the following in his “THE CAST OF CHRISTMAS – PART 1, THE INN KEEPER” video start at 30:30
Google: “THE CAST OF CHRISTMAS – PART 1, THE INN KEEPER”
“Someone asked me do I believe people can lose their salvation. I said let me ask you this question when someone got married and the day after they got married they ask their wife… how many times I might cheat on you before you leave me. Do you think that person was really married? (Signalling no by shaking his head.) … they really were not married here (Pounding his chest)…. marriage is two becoming one as a metaphor for salvation according to the Bible. So what I am talking about is, say Lord I really want to surrender, I really want to marry, I really want to be united as one…”
It is clear to me that he preached the Lordship Salvation gospel.
Eddy, each of these underscores the problem that Ron Shea articulates so well in his section on repentance at Clear Gospel Campaign:
“The phrase “repent of your sins,” is so embedded in Christian culture that it is hard to hear the word “repent” without mentally adding on the three words “from your sins.” And since the word “repent” is often associated with eternal salvation, this leads to further adding on, either mentally, or verbally from the pulpit, the words “to be saved” to the end of the sentence. Together, they form the greatest myth in the history of Christianity . . . “You must repent of your sins to be saved.”
This belief is not only wrong, it is an error that threatens the eternal destiny of every man, woman and child on the planet. For it reduces the gospel of grace to a gospel of works. Scripture teaches with unmistakable clarity that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law, (Romans 3:28) and that to entrust one’s eternal salvation to one’s own obedience to God’s laws is to frustrate God’s offer of the gift of forgiveness of sins and eternal life, and make void the promise (Romans 4:4-5, 24; 11:6-7, Galatians 5:1-4).”
Pedro Garcia asked people who want to know Jesus to pray in the following way.
“Jesus come in to my life, forgive me of my sin. I want to walk with you. I want to turn away from my life and I want to get on you path and your purpose and your plan.”
Except from Pdero Garcia’s video “God’s Heart for the City” hosted on viemo.com starting at 1:08:45
Ed Young also preach turning from sins in order to be saved. Here is what he said in his one of his video on his site.
“You become a believer by basically saying … I believe God that you love me, and I admit to you that I am a sinner. I turn from my sins and turn to you. I acknowledge that fact that to the best of my ability I believe that you God sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for all of my sins, I turn from my sins and turn to you. I ask you Jesus Christ to come into my life. I give you everything I am and everything I will ever be.”
The quote is from the following video starting at 10:56
Google: “Ed Young Have questions about what it means to be a follower of Christ?”
King James:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;” Acts 3:19
New Living Translation:
“Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away. ” Acts 3:19
Yeah…translations matter.
As Shea has repeatedly noted, “repent of your sins” is no where in the bible. That’s why they have to keep coming up with newer revisions, so that they can make the bible say what they want it to say.
The following verses are profound to me, and quite clear in stating which sin we must turn from in order to be saved, which is unbelief:
John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”
Trying to clean up your life in order to be saved defeats the very purpose of His imparting to us His Spirit, Who is the only One Who is able to live the Christian life. You can DO NOTHING without HIM. Stop trying and simply rest and delight in Him.
Dr. Charlie Bing has written an excellent analysis of Matthew 7:21-23 where we meet those who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, yet will hear those terrifying words “Depart from Me, I never knew you”.
http://gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes.asp?id=52
This is from Greg Laurie’s Harvest Ministries website.
“About how to know God.
….
3. Repent of your sin.
The Bible tells us, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away” (Acts 3:19 NLT). The word repent means to change our direction in life. Instead of running from God, we can run toward Him.”
Britt Merrick is definitely a charismatic. There are even more troubling passages from the same article I quoted in my last post.
Google: “Britt Merrick A Powerful Move of the Holy Spirit”
This is the except from Britt Merrick’s blog with the title A Powerful Move of the Holy Spirit.
” I went to bed somewhat discouraged and got up around 3:30am and started to pray. The Lord spoke to me and said, “Pray from now until the service (10am) and I will tell you what to say.” So, I spent the morning in prayer and worship and sensed a new and profound filling with the Holy Spirit… I was buzzing!”
God literally spoke to him???
Dear John,
Here are the verses to backup the quote from Clear Gospel Campaign in your posting.
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:15-23
On the subject of church statements of faith, from Clear Gospel Campaign:
“If you want to know the doctrine that a church teaches, don’t ask to read the doctrinal statement. It may be gathering dust! Meet several members of the congregation who have been there for at least three years. Ask them what they believe about certain topics of theology. These men and women are the real fruit of the pastor’s labors! And by them, you will know what he really believes. Their emphasis will be that which he has emphasized. Their ignorance on certain topics is simply a reflection of their pastor’s failure to address those topics with clarity and accuracy. Trees beget fruit after their own kind!”
Jim F, I have also met people who talk about “repenting from sin” to be saved, but when pushed on it don’t really believe it.
I had one friend say “don’t you have to repent of your sins”? I asked him “did you”? And he kind of hemmed and hawed.
Regarding churches, congregants are the fruits by which you know what churches are teaching – and what they aren’t teaching.
Dear John,
Thanks for your accurate summary of the different manifestations caused by the underlining works-based religious beliefs.
Dear Jim F,
I found the following statement from God’s Gift of Salvation page on the website of Bob Jones University.
“How Do I Receive This Free Gift?
In light of this amazing sacrifice, we might imagine that the cost of such a salvation on our part would be higher than we could afford. And God has already told us that our good works don’t save us. Our only hope of salvation and eternal life is to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus Christ. That’s all! Romans 10:9 states, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.””
Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for the video of Young and Osteen. You reminded me of an interview that I heard of Joel Osteen a few years back in which he declared that he doesn’t use terminology like “hell,” “damnation,” “sin,” “sinner,” “hades,” “lake of fire,” “lost,” “penalty for sin,” . . . you get the idea. His approach guts the gospel and throws out much of the book of Romans, along with Luke 16, as well as many other Scriptures, leaving the individual with no real reason to get saved and with no perceived need for a savior. I’ve watched a few of his sermons on T.V. They struck me as simply being story-telling feel-good, power of positive thinking sessions along the lines of Norman Vincent Peale or Robt. Schuller.
Thanks again for sharing this eye-opening video with us.
Hi Eddy,
Valid warnings about Bob Coy’s church’s statements and about the other statements from Hillsong. Very troubling indeed! Thanks for your research.
John,
I think the problem for me is that not every one who says “turn from sins for salvation” really means that when you press them on it. They may just say it that way because they heard it in a book or sermon somewhere. The other thing is that many at my church would deny a Lordship salvation position but might be tolerant of some Calvinistic or Arminian ideas. Some people there are clear on the gospel while others seem confused to me. I’m most keenly interested in what the Pastors and deacons believe for the most part. This reminds me of my Bible college days where some there were clearly biblicists while others were reformed to some extent. You see that a lot in fundamental baptist colleges like Northland, Maranatha, Bob Jones etc. The sad part of the story for me is that I may have to eventually move on from here and find a new place. There don’t seem to be any free grace churches here in Michigan but there may be some fundamental Baptist churches left that have not been infiltrated or diluted by the reformed Lordship position. Sad to say though that many grow up in good churches only to be exposed to Calvinism and LS at college. I am fortunate to have been able to avoid getting drawn in to that deception.
Eddy, excellent research on false teachers. If someone believes babbling in “tongues” is a sign of being saved, you can bet he will babble in “tongues”. If someone believes other good works are a sign of being saved, you can bet he will be busy as a beaver. If someone believes “turning from sin” is necessary for salvation, you can bet he either lies to himself or has no assurance of salvation – and in many cases, rightly so!
I agree with your earlier statement – the common denominator in the universal religion is works.
Jim F, excellent response to my questions. I am perplexed by one of your comments though. You said:
“I agree with you that the “turning from sin to be saved belief” is a problem. It becomes almost like a way of proving oneself to God, thereby earning or proving that you deserve God’s gift of salvation. It can negate the whole concept that salvation was earned by Christ and that it is offered to all as a free gift. This hits home to me because I’ve heard this phrase so much in various churches. Many times you’ll hear this statement by people in very good churches. I am troubled because I frequently spot back-doors to the Lordship gospel in the church that I attend.”
If the church does not teach “turn from sins for salvation”, then it might be a good church. If a church does teach “turn from sins for salvation”, it cannot be a good church. The “turn from sins for salvation” belief is a front-door to the LS works gospel.
I think that people who have been attending a church regularly for a while (two or three years) are living statements of faith for that church. If they are unclear on the Gospel, then the church is likely also unclear on the Gospel.
I live in a metropolitan area with more than a million people and I am not aware of any Grace churches in my community. Most of the churches are SBC, and the SBC is LS.
Here is the except from the Belief Statement posted on Rich Wilkerson’s ministry, The Vous, Miami
“THE HOLY SPIRIT: We believe in the deity of the HOLY SPIRIT who proceeds from the FATHER and the SON and the necessity of His work in conviction of sin, repentance, regeneration and sanctification, and that the believer is also promised an enduement of power as the gift of Christ through the BAPTISM in the HOLY SPIRIT with signs following. Through this enduement the believer is empowered for fuller participation in the ministry of the Church, its worship, evangelism and service.”
Jimmy, I don’t know much about Ed Young Jr. What are some things that make him a false teacher?
Eddy:
Good research on your part. How about this one…False teacher Ed Young Jr. (speaker at ONE conference) paying homage to false teacher Joel Osteen:
Dear Bruce,
How about this one from Bob Coy’s Calvary Chapel, Ft. Lauderdale
“In a broad general sense, Calvary Chapel is the middle ground between fundamentalism and Pentecostalism in modern Protestant theology. ….
Pentecostalism restored to the church the importance of gifts of the Spirit and the power of God for the believer today.”
“…special “after glow” services are provided where the gifts of the Holy Spirit can operate freely under the leadership of mature Christians. “
Dear Bruce,
This is another troubling statement from Brian Houston’s Hillsong Church,
“We believe that in order to live the holy and fruitful lives that God intends for us, we need to be baptised in water and be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit enables us to use spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues which is the initial evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.”
John,
I agree with you that the “turning from sin to be saved belief” is a problem. It becomes almost like a way of proving oneself to God, thereby earning or proving that you deserve God’s gift of salvation. It can negate the whole concept that salvation was earned by Christ and that it is offered to all as a free gift. This hits home to me because I’ve heard this phrase so much in various churches. Many times you’ll hear this statement by people in very good churches. I am troubled because I frequently spot back-doors to the Lordship gospel in the church that I attend. I’ve never found a church totally free of any possible back-door to LS or other errors. What I look for is a church that I feel agrees with me as much as possible in regards to scripture and sound doctrine. I have found it increasingly difficult in the area where I live now to find a place that I feel like I could stay for years. I’ve come to realize that many just do not understand the dangers of false teaching. Everyone seems to want to expose things that are extreme, like cults, but they won’t take a good look to examine what their own preacher or Sunday school teacher is saying.
With regards to your very good questions:
1. It is true that they are not all right. I like it when churches have good solid doctrinal statements and live them out. I like Bruce’s idea somewhat. I, however, do think that it is fine for churches to declare certain key doctrines along with those verses. That way they can articulate to people exactly what they believe and not leave it up to any one reader’s personal interpretation of a verse. My biggest pet peeve is that many places use verses to support their statements that don’t actually back up the point being made. I believe if you are going to say you believe something in a doctrinal statement, then you should be able to back it up with scripture.
2. There can be many reasons for this. I feel that some get excited about the prospect of unity and cooperation. Some think that the ends justify the means. Others just go along with the trends of the day. There are some who teach error themselves in some way and have trouble with avoiding others that teach error. Error often compounds if left unchecked. Some may be like babes in Christ lacking the skill to discern any problem and get swept up into it. If you consider the music, some just want to have an experience or to indulge the flesh a little all the while presuming to be spiritual.
3. Anyway you look at it, there is much truth that is suppressed or diluted at those type of events. There is far too high a price to pay for so called unity. It is quite sad that it may be a picture of what is happening in “professing Christianity” as a whole. Our gospel that we hold dear is under attack and many times from “well meaning” people on the inside. That is bad enough. These events only further the problem.
Looks like we’re on the same page, Jimmy! 🙂
Pearl:
Thanks for your comments. You state, “Going by their current actions, I stand by my conclusion that they don’t appreciate (agree) that LS is a false gospel; nor do countless other ministries.”
I would hope that you stand by that conclusion for it is a right judgment. I’m merely pointing out that Deborah does not believe saving repentance means to “turn from sin” which is what I thought you implied earlier. Furthermore, I agree with you that Deborah and her husband are indeed going to have to make a decision to either continue endorsing LS teachers, or to actually take a stand for the Gospel. There is no middle ground. I hope they choose the latter.
NOTE: As you know, the meaning of repentance is determined by the context. If, speaking hypothetically, a person does not see himself as a hell-deserving sinner, he needs to change his mind (repent), see himself as God sees him, and place his trust in Christ’s finished cross-work to save him. Another person may see himself as a sinner in need of a Saviour yet still maintain in his mind that he can help Christ save himself. He needs to change his mind (repent), and trust in Christ ALONE. Another person may see himself as a sinner, know he can’t help Christ save himself, yet not believe Christ is God in the flesh. This man needs to change his mind about Christ’s Deity (repent), and trust in the God-man.
It seems to me that Arminians are more likely to endorse spiritual practices then the Calvinists. Here are some of the examples:
Chuck Smith and some Calvary Chapel churches
Methodist
Pentecostal
Salvation Army
Christian and Missionary Alliance
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
Holiness Movement
A. W. Tozer
John Wesley
David Wilkerson
In general, it is easier to identify Calvinists than Arminians. I suspect that there are not a small number of Arminians hiding in the [realm of] Christendom, some of them being mistakenly identified as Free Grace believers.
Another excellent write-up on repentance by Shea, John!
Jimmy, my concluding that Lighthouse Trails was still off on repentance (which going by the above statement you included by them, I’m not terribly convinced they really get it; because, according to my understanding, repentance has absolutely nothing to do with how I view myself, but how I view and understand Who Jesus Christ is and that He came to redeem me).
Truly, I feel sorry for them. They are in a very difficult position, but it’s one they volunteered for and it behooves them to do what’s right. Either they get fully acquainted with the subtleties of LS and take a firm stance against it by no longer compromising by giving audience to authors which advance it (which would surely make them very unpopular and possibly lose their business), or remain “safely” vague and continue to support authors, with whom the only thing they may have in common is that they merely stand against mysticism in Christianity. The former would be a leap of faith, the latter a work of the flesh – vanity. Going by their current actions, I stand by my conclusion that they don’t appreciate (agree) that LS is a false gospel; nor do countless other ministries.
I should have made clear what that pastor was saying with his cannonball and grasshopper statement. In short, “Give em the information..and move on”.
Pearl:
Deborah does not define saving repentance as “turning from sin”. Under “Doctrinal Statment” at their site, we read:
“We believe repentance means to acknowlegde one’s sinfulness and desperate need for a Savior, to turn to the Gospel (i.e., to believe the Gospel and trust fully Christ’s payment on the cross for his/her sins).”
This is a marked improvement from where it once was, and does no injustice to the Gospel message. Any yet, Deborah still uses writers who redefine saving repentance…thus making it a work of man. I pray she one day (hopefully soon) owns the fact that in doing so she is indirectly leading folks to a false gospel by addition.
As for Brenda Nickel, she’s been drinking the middletown back door approach to LS for so long, as well as has much invested (via her writings) in an unbiblical defining of saving repentance, that I have little hope for her coming out of it… I’ve tried over the years to help her see these errors (and it appears from reading previous threads here) that others have as well. She’s got the information, but pride is having its day with her. A pastor I respect once told me, “Don’t waste your cannonballs on grasshoppers.”
This “turning from sin to be saved” belief is really a problem.
Here is a case of “repenting from sin”
Matthew 27:3-5
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Commentary from Clear Gospel Campaign:
“Note: The word used for repent, herein, is “metamelomai,” which means, “to regret” or “to care afterward.” Judas was deeply grieved over his sin! “I have sinned in that I have betrayed innocent blood.” And he had killed a friend. He grief was so profound that he went out and killed himself.” But believing that Jesus is a good man, and an innocent man, is not saving faith. And this repentance did not save Judas. It was not because the result of his betrayal was the crucifixion of Jesus. He clearly never intended or expected that his actions would be to send Jesus to the cross. He was condemned because his act of betrayal showed that he never believed in Jesus. Jesus was a good man to Judas. But He was not the Son of God to Judas. His refusal to believe was particularly dastardly because, as one of the twelve, he had been with Jesus for the three years that Jesus had showed Himself by many mighty works to be the Son of God. Jesus taught that those cities which witnessed his mighty works and refused to believe were subject to the greater condemnation. In view of this, Judas, who lived with Jesus for three years, but still would not believe, has secured for him a terrible condemnation.
This passage in Matthew should highlight the absurdity of teaching that remorse or otherwise “repenting of one’s sins” is somehow connected to eternal salvation. It clearly did nothing for the salvation of Judas. Jesus said, ” The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:24. One need not be a Ph.D. in Greek to realize that, whatever that means
I have to agree with you to some extent, Jimmy.
Going by last week’s article entitled “Come Back to the True Living Water” by Dave Dombrowski of Lighthouse, LS awareness and our subsequent attempts to hold ministries accountable seem to be making a dent, but for the time being, doesn’t appear to be any more than Ms. Brenda Nickel’s LS awareness – merely that reformed theology is the culprit, all the while defending the popular belief that “repentance” means turning from sin to be saved. There really is no marked difference; rather, the enemy has made the deception even more obscure.
Jack:
Good to hear your Granddaughter has made that wise decision…not only for herself, but for her clients.
I read the thread you cited. I’m glad Faith introduced her concerns regarding Spiritual Formation. It’s a topic in the Church that very few are willing to talk about in a transparent and honest way. And it’s not going away. Moreover, it is threatening to make inroads into Free Grace circles as well. I’ve yet to find anyone in FG sounding the alarm however. Nevertheless, I will be doing so in the future after I gather more facts.
As for Lighthouse Trails, I have already in a previous thread shared my concerns about their seeming inability to discern the dangers of Reformed theology/LS. I’ve dialogued with Deborah about this very matter in the past (specifically regarding saving repentance). As a result of that discussion she made a change in their doctrinal statement where saving repentance is concerned. It’s better, but not quite there IMO. Having said all this, I know of no better site than hers to learn about Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Spirituality and the dangers therein.
NOTE: I believe Deborah (at Lighthouse Trails) is currently struggling with the inherent problems in Reformed theology. I see glimmers of hope. We should all keep her in our prayers.
The all too frequent occurrence of mysticism in free grace circles is a very troubling fact to me, and the first reason why we’ve not found a church. And, no doubt, why the predominantly LS discernment ministries thrive as they do.
It pains me to say, and even more to observe, that following several readers’ comments of another excellent Free Grace blogger has often led to sites which, while seeming to “get” the dangers of LS, favorably quote equally disturbing teachers like Sue Monk Kidd, Rick Warren, etc.
We have it going on in our own extended family, where God’s grace is so pervasive that it includes practicing Catholics, Mormons and anybody else who “means well”.
All discernment out the window. I just don’t get it.
Jimmy,
Thanks — My Granddaughter says she is removing herself from those mystical practices but I am 1,000 miles away from her so I don’t get to see her regularly.
Re: Spiritual Formation: we have covered it frequently in comments, especially in this article in May of last year:
http://www.expreacherman.com/2011/05/14/what-a-permanent-salvation-are-you-serious/
Also I note you quote LightHouse Trails. At one time I used them as a link and reference on this web site and referred to them regularly but no more. Editor Deborah Domdrowski has virtually no understanding of the problems with Calvinism and Lordship Probation (salvation). I had a long discussion by email with Deborah regarding her promotion of Caryl Matrisciano and her acceptance of LS (in her Yoga CD). Shortly after that I had a phone conversation with Caryl. They simply don’t understand the evils of LS!!
I urge our readers to use extreme caution when accessing Lighthouse Trails research. They comprehend the evils of mysticism but ignore those of Calvinism and LS.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jimmy, the other thing with Charles Stanley is his involvement with the SBC. They have been officially LS for as far back as I’ve been able to determine, although some of the individual churches are not.
By the way, I wasn’t suggesting that any readers of this blog are followers/admirers of the aformentioned men. I’m speaking of christendom at large.
John:
I haven’t listened to Charles Stanley in years, so I don’t know what he teaches at present. He used to be solid on assurance, eternal security, salvation vs. rewards, and the free gift of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone. I was somewhat surprised (although not totally shocked in light of his contemplative practices) to find he now redefines saving repentance. This is of course a false gospel by addition. Dabbling in Eastern mysticism (cloaked in christian ease) will effect one’s theology for the worse.
Hi Bruce,
I’m glad you brought this conference to the attention of readers at this blog. It’s very hard for some believers to imagine New Age practices being condoned and taught by many leaders in the Christian church. Contemplatives like Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah, Charles Stanley, John Piper, Ed Young, Greg Laurie, Graham, and countless others have gained the respect, admiration, and misplaced trust of thousands. It’s difficult for such admirers to swallow the fact that these leaders are not only engaged in Eastern Mysticism, but are subtly and slowly leading their followers to it.
I suspect the “ONE” in the title of the confernce refers to the “oneness” these contemplatives believe exists in all humanity:
One “christian” mystic (what an oxymoron!) stated, “You are ONE with the Deity, as is all of humanity…Everything is ONE with everything else. All that is on Earth is an expression of the ONE Deity and is permeated with Its energies…”
Another mystical trainer writes, “The classical experience of enlightenment as described by Buddhist monks, Hindu gurus, Christian mystics, Aboriginal shamans, Sufi sheiks and Hebrew Kabalists is characterized by two universal elements: radiant light and an experience of ONENESS with creation.”
Enter by the narrow gate (faith alone in Christ alone); for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate (Christ alone) and difficult is the way (difficult for prideful man to trust in Christ plus nothing for salvation) which leads to life, and there are few who find it (Mt. 7:13-14)
Jimmy,
Thanks for educating us on the “Spiritual Formation” connection with the conference speakers. I was unaware of it.
The vast pervasiveness of Eastern mysticism in churches, as you describe it, is indeed quite alarming!
Jimmy, regarding Charles Stanley – you said:
“…yet his doctrine (minus his redefining of saving repentance) is fairly solid across the board”
The redefining of saving repentance changes the Gospel into a false gospel of works. How can someone who does that have a doctrine that “is fairly solid across the board?”
Howdy John,
Excellent questions!
Regarding your question one, “Since these statements of faith are all different, how can they all be right?,” the simple answer is, “Of course they cannot all be right.” But you touched on an area with which I have had issues for a long time; that is, Why do churches and Christian organizations even need to utilize man-made statements of faith? Why not simply rely upon the Bible, God’s ULTIMATE STATEMENT OF FAITH! Then say, “We believe the Bible to be the complete and inerrant Word of God to and for mankind;” then, simply list various topic headings of theology, such as, “Salvation.” Each topic heading could then be followed by a few salient verses, such as for Salvation, appropriate verses to cite might include: John 3:16-18, Acts 16:30-31, Romans 4:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (many other sound verses could be cited).
As to your question two, “Why do believers in God’s Grace yoke themselves with believers in their own works plus God’s Grace (i.e., unbelievers)?,” this one is a bit more difficult to answer. Just from my own observation, it can result from ignorance of the real and present dangers of LS theology. Other possible motivations might be the speaker’s desire to be a part of some well-publicized event, and also the opportunity to rub shoulders with famous people.
Regarding question three, “What is the point of these conferences?,” My take on it is that some groups or individuals are seeking to kindle some kind of “on-fire” movement for God. Maybe some of them have honorable intentions, others maybe not so honorable?
By the way, I found out that the ONE Conference charges each person attending $39.00 for each night of attendance.
Jack:
Jack:
I hope your granddaughter has ceased utilizing mystical practices (which often include Reiki, Therapeutic Touch, “energy work”, etc.) in her practice of massage therapy. Practioners of such, whether they realize it or not, are being used by familiar spirits. My wife, a massage therapist, often has people come in asking for Reiki, therapeutic touch, or other forms of “energy work”. She informs them why she steers clear of such things.
As for your question, I’ve run into New Age nonsense at every chiropractic seminar I’ve ever attended. I try to warn my peers and fellow chiropractors about such, but often to no avail. There are chiropractors like me, however, who stay away from this garbage..and who do a fine job of simply treating the spine and surrounding musculature.
Lest there by any misunderstanding, these types of mystical practices are not confined to alternative medicine. Reiki, therapeutic touch, meditative techniques, yoga, etc..are now being embraced and utilized by many in the allopathic (i.e. medical) profession as well. In fact, one would have to look hard to find a health care profession today which does not utilize and endorse mystical practices. Tragic.
What’s even more concerning is the fact that eastern mysticism practices have have invaded christianity under the seemingly innocuous banner of “spiritual formation”, “spiritual disciplines”, etc… Eddy brought up Charles Stanley. Here’s a man who promotes the “silence” (translation: contemplative prayer), yet his doctrine (minus his redefining of saving repentance) is fairly solid across the board. And herein lies the evil genius of our Advisary. As Yungen puts it, “The advantage practical mystics have is that they only have to piggyback a seemingly benevolent meditation method onto whatever programs they are promoting–in other words, they do not have to proselytize people to a dogma, only a PRACTICE. New Age publisher Jeremy Tarcher spoke of this challenge in an interview. Speaking of practical mystics he explained: ‘They have to learn to present their perceptions in appropriate language and actions that don’t arouse fear or resistance’.”
Lastly, you might be surprised to know that over 350 (at minimum) seminaries today promote/teach eastern mystical practices under the banner of “spiritual formation”. How could this be? They are being FORCED to in oder to get or maintain accredidation. See following article (An Epidemic of Apostasy–Christian Seminaries Must Incorporate “Spiritual Formation” to become Accredited) at http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=7733
NOTE: The next time you see a person of one theology endorsing someone of a seemingly opposing theology check to see their respective views on spiritual formation/spiritual disciplines. This is often where they share common ground.
Jimmy,
Just curious. I have been warning my granddaughter (a massage therapist) about the inroads and dangers in her profession of Buddhist mysticism, the Namaste greeting and all of the Yoga practices that are designed to entice folks into a “spirit” realm. Such is absolutely dangerous, against and contrary to Biblical Christianity; (Mysticism, New Age philosophy, Reiki, Yoga {beyond exercise}, Contemplative Spirituality, Pantheism, etc).
Have you run into this problem professionally as a Chiropractor?
My granddaughter (erroneously but innocently I pray) invokes some of these mystical things in her practice.. but claims she was unaware of and surprised at the dangerous subtleties of the mystic practices. She was “taught” these were the professional and right things to do.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Dear Jimmy,
In my opinion, the one world religion will be based on the gospel of works, not the Gospel of grace. All the religions of the world today are based on the same gospel, the gospel of works. Only born again Christians believe in the Gospel of grace. I am not surprised that there are more and more of those who used to be free grace preachers starting to embrace the Lordship Salvation gospel. Charles Stanley is a good example. Spiritual disciplines are just some of the means to lead people to the one world religion based on the gospel of works. Actually, “spiritual disciplines” and the works-based gospel are very much related. Here is an example. John Wesley was a proponent of spiritual disciplines and he tried to muddy the water of grace with works.
Google: “Spiritual Disciplines: Works of Piety”
Eddy:
I’m not sure they are wanting to “unite the whole of christendom under the Lordship Salvation gospel” per se, but rather to get the whole of christendom PRACTICING “spiritual disciplines” which necessarily lead to interspirituality (i.e. panentheism). This is the one world religion.
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for your research on the “ONE” conference. The name of the conference is actually very appropriate. They want to unite the whole Christendom under the Lordship Salvation gospel.
One gospel: The works-based gospel.
One church: The church of antichrist (pseudo-christ)
One world: The world headed by anti-christ.
Here is what Franklin Graham wrote:
“Whenever I call for men and women to make a decision to follow Christ as Savior and Lord, I am careful to remind them that genuine faith must be accompanied by genuine repentance from sin.”
Google: “True Repentance, Franklin Graham May 1, 2008”
His father Billy Graham wrote:
“Has there been a moment in your life when you repented of sin and then by faith received the Lord Jesus Christ? If not, you can today. Your life can be changed. Your sins can be forgiven. You can live a new life. You can have the assurance that if you died at this moment, you would go to heaven. Will you repent now? Will you receive Him as your Saviour?”
Google: “True Repentance, Real Change Billy Graham”
Since ONE is the theme, that is why so many “Christian Charity Organizations” such as World Vision, Salvation Army, and Samaritan’s Purse all serving one common goal, to make the way straight for the pseudo-christ. Eventually, all unsaved professing christians will be united together under ONE church with the headquarters in Rome. Dave Hunt’s A Woman Rides the Beast is a very good book to read if one wants to know more.
John:
You asked, a) “Why do believers in God’s Grace yoke themselves with believers in their own works plus God’s Grace (i.e., unbelievers)?”, and b) “What is the point of these conferences? To dilute Calvinism/LS or to dilute Grace?”
If you do some digging you’ll find that every person who will be speaking at the ONE conference is involved in the practice and promotion of SPIRITUAL FORMATION. While the speakers’ respective theological backgrounds differ (which will guarantee a larger audience at the conference), such is merely a distraction in terms of the discerning getting at what these folks are really after. What unites them is their practice of Eastern mysticism cloaked in Christian terminoloy. And what they are after is simply to introduce contemplative prayer, lectio divina, labyrinths, etc. (under the guise of “spritual formation” ) to the masses. NOTE: You may be surprised to know that Spiritual Formation has infiltrated EVERY christian denomination….and is even finding its way into Free Grace circles.
John,
If we read the words of the Lordship Probation folks and those who commune with them — we see self serving rather than God serving. Vanity is an apt term!!
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, it amazes me that these people think that redefining God’s Gospel is providing a service to God. What a horrific lie it is to say you are “committed to Christ” while at the same time being committed to changing the Gospel into false gospels. What vanity!
John,
I would say the mish-mash of speakers is designed to redefine God’s Free Grace. Many of those speakers, (Chan et al) have already done that miserably and they are spreading their poison to all who will hear, saved, unsaved, babes in Christ etc.. Tragic.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Bruce, thanks for bringing this up.
Some toss-up questions for the group:
This is very interesting. Since these statements of faith are all different, how can they all be right?
Why do believers in God’s Grace yoke themselves with believers in their own works plus God’s Grace (i.e., unbelievers)?
What is the point of these conferences? To dilute Calvinism/LS or to dilute Grace?
Bruce,
Thanks for the good work, excellent research and info. Some of our acquaintances attend churches of the local speakers, they will be enticed and exposed to the lies of Calvinism, Lordship Probation. What a shame.
Interesting — We live in the area and had not heard of the conference.. (but I don’t get around much anymore).
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack