Lordship Salvation? Here Are Some Signs

By johninnc

Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

One of the restaurants that my wife and I frequent received a recent score from the health inspector of 87.5%. We figured it was an anomaly, but after suffering from a weekend stomach bug, I’m not so sure.

Anytime an institution deviates from standards that have been set for our health and well-being, the consequences can be serious – even deadly. This is particularly applicable to “churches” purporting to represent the Word of God.

To that end, I did an internet search under “church marquee sayings” and found quite a few that confuse, or misrepresent the gospel. Following is a sample. My comments are in parentheses.

1. Belief in God will not earn you a spot in Heaven. Obedience will. 

(Eternal life is never earned. It is received by grace through faith in Christ. The only context in which this saying is accurate is if they mean by obeying (believing) the gospel.)

2. You cannot have a testimony without going through a test.

(Our Christian testimony should focus on the gospel and how we came to believe it.)

3. If you don’t have enough of God in your heart to bring you to church, I doubt you have enough of God in your heart to get you to Heaven. 

(Implies that eternal life is earned by church attendance.)

4. Turn or Burn

(Implies that turning from some behavior is required to have eternal life.)

5. If you don’t go to God’s house, what makes you think He will take you to His????

(Implies that eternal life is earned by church attendance.)

6. Need a new life? God accepts trade-ins.

(We receive eternal life when we believe in Jesus as Savior. This slogan could be easily misinterpreted to imply that one must give up something to receive the free gift of eternal life.)

7. Famous last words: “I’ll get right with God later.”

(Implies that one must do something (such as “turning from sin,” or “putting Christ on the throne of his life”) in order to receive the free gift of eternal life.)

8. To have your name written in the Book of Life, you must ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins .

(The Bible never conditions receiving eternal life on asking for forgiveness.)

9. FAITH – Forsaking All I Trust Him.

(Could be accurate, if they mean forsaking all other confidences, and trusting in Christ alone for eternal life. But, this could also be misconstrued to mean that one must forsake sins, etc. to receive eternal life.)

10. If you don’t try hard enough then you made the devil happy .

(Could be interpreted to mean that erternal life is earned by self-effort, or that the Christian life is lived that way.)

11. Good works are the fruit, not the root, of salvation.

(Implies that good works are automatic in the lives of believers, which is not scriptural.)

12. By perseverance — the snail reached the ark.

(Teaches that we receive eternal life by our perseverance versus by God’s preservation.)

13. Law says, “Do, and you will live.” Grace says, “Live, and you will do.”

(Implies that good works are automatic in those that have eternal life.)

14. Jesus Christ came to make bad people good.

(Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. When we believe in Jesus as Savior, we receive His imputed perfection.  One has to be perfect to get into Heaven. Otherwise, how good is good enough?)

15. Try Jesus. If you don’t like Him, the devil will always take you back.

(Wrongly implies that one can lose eternal life.)

The one component that each of the above church marquee sayings has in common is a lack of clear focus on the gospel.

If you have been being fed false or confusing messages such as the ones above, is it time to reassess your spiritual diet?

If you would like to know how to have eternal life click here: The Gospel

97 responses to “Lordship Salvation? Here Are Some Signs

  1. Things that sound “good” can be very dangerous. Especially if they follow something true. Like the phrase “we are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone”. The first part is true, but the second is not.

  2. Brian, excellent point and excellent example.

  3. Hi Brian
    Yep , that’s is a double bind mind control tactic That’s how souls get enslaved into false doctrines

  4. I remember being fed in Black Baptist churches “keep on keeping on” and “gotta be 100, 99 won’t do”, implying that eternal life was a reward for persevering and being perfect. I eventually judged them by the content of their doctrine and left them. I was not hearing enough grace. It wasn’t enough assurance that they were singing “At the Cross” and “Nothing but the Blood”. There was no clear distinction between salvation and rewards. I knew one deacon who understood the distinction but never mentioned it. Doctrinal confusion had become a barrier to reconciliation.

    This was at the time I was listening to HH and other voices of doubt. I was caught up in race and politics and other things I should have left well enough alone. Even in all this confusion, I knew that rewards are distinct from salvation.

  5. Thanks for highlighting that comment. I forgot that I had read it. I left them as politely as possible. They worried I had gone to the devil but did not shun me. They are nice people, but no one is nice enough for God. I can only hope and pray that they are or get saved.

    That NBC statement of faith is effectively their creed. They recite it sometimes and study it superficially. There are Calvinistic things in it, including the perseverance of the saints, but they are functionally Arminian. In the SBC, these things would no doubt be discussed and sometimes debated, but there they would just be read without understanding.

  6. Great post but I did get rather nauseous reading some of those. I guess that’s better than thinking, “Gee, I don’t see what the big DEAL is!”

  7. fryingpan, it’s great to hear from you.

    The interesting thing about the church marquee sayings was that there were a lot of good ones, mixed in with the bad ones, on the same sites. It was as if the purveyors of the sites were oblivious to the contradictory messages.

  8. I was reading quote #13 above: Law says, “Do and you will live”, Grace says “Live, and you will do” No, grace says, BELIEVE AND YOU WILL LIVE.

    Here is a passage from of “Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth, by CI Scofield, Chapter 6.

    “Law is God prohibiting and requiring; grace is God beseeching and bestowing. Law is a ministry of condemnation; grace, of forgiveness. Law curses; grace redeems from that curse. Law kills; grace makes alive. Law shuts every mouth before God; grace opens every mouth to praise Him. Law puts a great and guilty distance between man and God; grace makes guilty man nigh to God. Law says, ‘Hate thine enemy’; grace, ‘Love your enemies, bless them that despitefully use you.’ Law says, DO AND LIVE; GRACE, BELIEVE AND LIVE. Law never had a missionary; grace is to be preached to every creature. Law utterly condemns the best man; grace freely justifies to worst. Law is a system of probation; grace, of favor. Law stones an adulteress; grace says, ‘Neither do I condemn three.’ Under law the sheep dies for the shepherd; under grace the Shepherd dies for the sheep.”

  9. Phil, great correction to a terrible marquee saying.

    I wish I could agree with Scofield that “law never had a missionary.” Those fulfilling the Great Commission do not preach law. However, there have been lots of “missionaries” who have taught salvation by grace plus law keeping. Even today, many of the more prominent ministers/evangelists/authors are hucksters selling false gospels of salvation by grace plus law keeping.

  10. a common pattern i am seeing with false gospels above . They can not say Free Gift of Eternal Life . its always missing in the doctrinal statements and presentation’s

  11. John, I think Scofield may have been saying that under the Law of Moses in the OT there was no great commission as compared to the NT.
    Scofield was pretty much pure grace alone. There are exceptions where he slips: he did use the Romans 10 confessing passage as part of saving faith, which is incorrect. But Scofield has been great influence in my life showing the distinction of what is taught in the Bible to those under the Law and to those under Grace, the church. And this is the problem with today’s legalists (Galatianists), LS’ers, Calvinists, Arminians……that is, they co-mingle Scripture teaching with Law and Grace and package it up in
    false “faith/works” gospels.

  12. Today I saw a marquee that said “Jesus is Lord” and if I recall cited Philippians 2:10-11. This is fine, but I would much prefer to see “Jesus saves” and John 3:16. Now, why am I thinking this?

  13. Jason, I don’t know why you think that, but maybe it’s because lots of unsaved people recognize Jesus’ Lordship. See Matthew 7:21.

  14. Indeed. The latter gives me a much better clue where they stand. But then again, many who are lordship think they know grace.

  15. That’s so true Phil. The theological demands of the so called “Covenant of Grace” (Reformed) forces a unity even where scripture demands division. The “Covenant of Grace” itself subsumes all biblical covenants including the Law thereby eradicating the Israel/Church distinction.

    This past month, due to a conversation I was having concerning faith as a gift, I spent quite a lot of time reading and listening to Calvinists apologist (again) to try to follow their logic and interpretation. It was not a great deal of fun and only further convinced me that for Calvinists all text proves what is assumed.

    One rock star apologist I listened to took me to Romans 8:7 where he sees “carnally minded” as synonymous with unbelievers only and “spiritually minded” as all believers who have been given faith (gifted faith to be subject to God’s law to please Him). Since carnally minded unbelievers are at enmity with God and unable to please God, unable to attain righteousness on their own (we agree) they are therefore unable to recognize their need for righteousness before God and unable to place trust in Christ for that righteousness (we disagree). He went full straw man asking “can a leopard change his spots…can we do our own heart surgery?”

    To him faith pleases God, faith is subject to the law of God, which the flesh (meaning unbeliever only) cannot do. He informed me that I was either with him or I was with Pelagius but I am with neither.

    Romans 3:21-24 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

    John I had trouble logging in so if this duplicates please delete one, thanks

  16. Greetings, everyone. At the risk of sounding like a King James Only fanatic, (and it might seem like a trivial point), but I really appreciate the way in which the King James Bible uses the definite article “the” in front of Lord when referring to Jesus. In Matthew 28:6, for example, the angel invites the women,saying “Come, see the place where the Lord lay” (translations based on the Critical Text use the pronoun he). In 1 Corinthians 12:3 the King James Bible states: “. . . no man can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost”. When the NIV, ESV, NASB, etc. read “Jesus is Lord” they are not saying the same thing. Here in this verse the King James Bible stresses the importance of the doctrine of the divinity of Christ, and it reminds me of 1 John 4:15: “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God”.

    I could belabor the point and site many other verses, such as Romans 10:9, 1 Peter 3:15, and 1 Corinthians 15:47, but I want to get to the heart of the matter. Lordship Salvation advocates use corrupted texts to advance a false gospel. They gravitate toward versions of the Bible that treat the word Lord as a descriptive noun rather than a proper noun. When they state that you must “make” Jesus Lord in order to be saved what they are really saying is that you are saved by works. How else could a lost sinner supposedly transform Jesus into Lord except by the superiority of their performance relative to other lost sinners?

  17. Alan, very interesting points. Some of us here are very skeptical of some of the translations that you mentioned.

  18. Thanks for commenting Alan..
    I like to use the term King James preferred
    to side step King James onlyism.
    I don’t mind looking at other versions but I always refer back to King James.

  19. I myself don’t like the way that modern versions are under copyright and subject to planned obsolescence. The 2011 NIV is truly a new age perversion.

  20. I have a question and please don’t think I am going into or advocating lordship “salvation”. I know why it is unscriptural for one to say good works are the fruit of salvation. The question is how do I connect it back to the gospel, and letting people know that it is a works based gospel? When people who preach very similar gospels, (true repentance, OSAS), yet one preaches that a Christian will bear at least some fruit after salvation while another preaches that a Christian might not not bear any fruit after salvation, I am having a hard time being able to prove that works coming after salvation is actually works salvation and damnable. Is it because it can cause unsaved people to look at their “fruit” and think if they are working that they are saved? Any answers or any resources will be helpful.Thanks.

  21. Ryan, teaching that good works are inevitable in the lives of believers inevitably leads to fruit inspection. If we look to ourselves for evidence of eternal life, we have our focus in the wrong place.

    The inevitability of good works in the lives of believers would undermine the Biblical doctrine of assurance. We know that we have eternal life based on what we have believed, not based on when the fruits start to show up.

    For an interpretation of scripture to be correct, one must be able to answer “yes” to ALL of the following questions:

    1. Is it consistent with eternal life by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone?
    2. Is it consistent with eternal security?
    3. Is it consistent with assurance of eternal life, based on God’s promises alone (i.e., it is not internally-focused on changes in attitudes, behavior, etc.)?

    There are many who teach 1 and 2, but stumble on 3.

  22. my self personally I keep it simple and just keep proclaiming The Gospel of Grace.

  23. unless a soul knows they have eternal life as a present possession that can never be lost. Because it does not depend on the recipient of the Free Gift of eternal life.
    Growth does not happen and end up in romans 7 deafted christian faith rest life..

  24. One doctrine I find to be confusing is the trinity in man or tripartite view. While not a damning doctrine per se, it seems to me that it could easily lead to other damning views. It is very common among word of faith, but plain evangelicals buy into it too. I noticed that Tony Evans holds that view. I think it is simpler that man is born with a body and soul and a sinful nature and does not have the new nature until he is born again.

  25. Ryan, here’s how I see it to prove that salvation is ALL of Christ and NOT of us at all, ever. It’s in the words “redeemed” and “ransomed.” When He died on the cross he bought us out of the doom and death of the slavery and captivity of our sins. He paid the price for our sins and bought us out of the slave market of doomed sinners, and took us home to have eternal life with his Father. All we are ever required to do, now and forever, is to receive by faith this eternal redemption God offers us. People who want to add to what Christ has done show their own pride and want to add to what Christ has done as though it’s not enough. This is the argument I use with legalists as well as those who have never trusted in Christ for salvation.
    I have found that dueling Scripture verses with legalists and LS’ers can be futile. But i think the picture of our salvation as redemption from the slave market where all the redeeming work is of Christ and none from us. In the Helenistic world of Christ’s time when a person was made a son it was permanent: one could not loose being a son even through sin. (example, Luke 15 and the prodigal son.)

  26. I don’t know how I missed this altogether… thank you for doing this. It highlights some of the many nauseating and condemning effects of unbiblical statements.

    I was thinking of how people wonder how they are not growing. One is by not taking heed to His Word. If we are not in His Word we are not going to become disciples, thereby having the truth set us free. But, what about the MANY who think they are in the Word?

    They listen to a man week after week. Maybe several times a week. They admire this man, he is likable, they eat with him, they laugh with him, they might even do missions with him. But they don’t realize that the reason they aren’t growing, or are even condemned, is because this man’s gospel is non-existent and his doctrine is flawed. Paul told Timothy to take heed to the doctrine so he could save both himself and his hearers (1 Tim 4:16). He warned all the elders day and night in tears for 3 years and even so, from among them were going to come some wolves (Acts 20:25-32).

    Tainted water, contaminated food, whether a little or a lot is still bad. You may take a little longer to pinpoint it if it is only a little contaminated, you may not know why. If the water has a little arsenic in it, might take awhile to make you really sick and it may be hard to figure it out. And the trouble is, once they are of the ones that are blown about by every wind of doctrine, you find some are looking for the next teacher to heap up to tell them what the Bible really says, (and that without again being Bereans or trying to prove all things first)…

  27. One video was about false believers. It discussed how it was possible to think you are saved and yet drop into hell. Both believing the gospel and doing good works with the right motivations did not seem to be enough. After five minutes of failing to get to the point, he said that inappropriate words from one’s mouth are evidence of a false believer. Clearly a sign of lordship. Emphasis on self examination was present.

  28. Hey guys thanks for the answers and the advice. Johninnc that was what I was thinking that saying good works will happen after can destroy assurance for believers and also give false assurance for unbelievers who are living the Christian life, Phil, you are definitely right about it being futile to debate with lordshippers. I just need to keep preaching the Gospel.That is also a great analogy with the Helenistic world of the time of Christ. I think I have heard that in that time when one was adopted they could never be disowned.

  29. Contending earnestly for the faith once delivered although it might seem futile at times, is never futile, someone is hearing. It is the foolish arguments that some get sidetracked into answering, vs. just trusting the power of God’s Word and answering ‘It is written’. It is so good to find one has come out of error years later because of a conversation with a loadshipper or one who tiptoes through the tulips 🙂

  30. Or one who tiptoes through five doctrines of a god of robots. If I don’t hear that works are never enough and that believing the gospel is sufficient, I think that is a false teacher. That video mentioned above blocked comments, lest the truth be heard.

  31. jasonc65, by “tripartite view” of man, do you mean the doctrine that man’s nature consists of body, soul and spirit?

    That’s the definition I’m familiar with. Hebrews 4:12 tells us that the Word of God is “quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,

    That would indicate that the soul and spirit of man are two different things. Added to the body, ya got three. I don’t see how such a view could lead to “damning views”, but maybe you were referring to something else?

  32. If that is the definition of man, then man has all three parts when he is born. That could lead to a denial of the second birth if the spirit is the new nature.

    If the soul is identified with the old nature, it would not make sense to say that Jesus saves souls. Yet souls are saved as through fire at the bema.

    The idea that man by nature has a godlike part in him can lead to mysticism, new age, word of faith, theosis, and other dangerous areas.

    God is one being in three persons. Man is nothing like this. This is yet another poor attempt at analogy. The persons of the Godhead are in agreement, but redeemed man’s two natures are at war.

    The law mentions heart, mind, soul, and strength. Add body, and we’d have five parts. It seems these terms are referring to attributes rather than parts.

    I noticed a Catholic blogger (shock!) who thinks more clearly about this than most evangelicals.

    I think a bipartite view is simpler, does not deny the soul or the body, does not muddle the second birth, and does not lead to philosophical speculation. That verse in Hebrews could be referring to the two natures. Being in the Word reminds us of the war raging within.

    I notice that the KJV refers to the new nature as the inward man, which makes it clear that the new nature is human and not to be confused with the Holy Spirit. The 1984 NIV had “inner self” in at least one instance, and that is new age lingo.

  33. jasonc65, I’m afraid you’re making several erroneous assumptions that are leading you to disregard key scriptures about the nature of man, such as the clear reference to man’s “spirit” in the passage I mentioned.

    Let me address a few things point by point (which is my way of saying,”I’m about to get long-winded.”)

    If that is the definition of man, then man has all three parts when he is born. That could lead to a denial of the second birth if the spirit is the new nature.

    Man does have all three parts when born, but in no way does that idea lead to a denial of the second birth, which involves the indwelling of the Spirit of God and the “quickening” of the believer’s spirit.

    If the soul is identified with the old nature, it would not make sense to say that Jesus saves souls. Yet souls are saved as through fire at the bema.

    That “if” involves an incorrect assumption. I’ve made no such identification. The old nature and the soul are two different concepts. As for the “fire” mentioned, 1st Cor. 3:15 refers to the fire that burns up a person’s corrupt works. Souls are not saved through fire, but through faith in Christ. The fire doesn’t burn the soul, which is sanctified in Christ.

    The idea that man by nature has a godlike part in him can lead to mysticism, new age, word of faith, theosis, and other dangerous areas.

    Mmm, that brings in a bit of a straw man. The human spirit is not a “godlike part”, it is the spiritual component of the complete human being. God has created beings that are spirits, but are not God by nature. (They’re known as angels.) God has also created spirits that posses souls and indwell physical bodies. Such are humans.

    God is one being in three persons. Man is nothing like this.

    Forgive me if this seems like quibbling, but actually, God is three Persons in one Being, not vice-versa. Scripture indicates that man is one being with three essential elements to his nature; body, soul and spirit. If that suggests an analogy of the Trinity, so be it. But the doctrine of the tripartite nature of man comes from Scripture, not from analogy.

    The law mentions heart, mind, soul, and strength. Add body, and we’d have five parts. It seems these terms are referring to attributes rather than parts.

    Well, the law also mentions hands, feet, heads, etc. With that logic we’d have umpteen dozen parts, wouldn’t we? But just because an “attribute” or aspect or part of man is mentioned in Scripture, doesn’t mean it’s relevant to this discussion. The issue here is: Does man have a spirit, is there such a thing as a human spirit? I maintain that there is. Scripture refers to man’s spirit numerous times in both testaments. Here are just a few:

    OT: “The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord.” Prov. 20:27
    “To him who is humble and of contrite spirit…” Isa. 66:2

    NT: “For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit…” Ro. 1:9
    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?” 1Cor. 2:11

    There are many more.

    I noticed a Catholic blogger (shock!) who thinks more clearly about this than most evangelicals.

    Why would you suppose that an adherent of the false gospel of Roman Catholicism would think clearly about anything biblical? (I suppose he told you he knows what’s what?) As an EX-Catholic myself, I can tell you that relying on a Roman Catholic’s interpretation of just about anything in Scripture is a good way to fall into error. The RC understanding of the soul is wrapped up in self-sanctification through rituals. Their interpretation of 1st Cor. 3:13-15 is skewed toward an effort to support the doctrine of Purgatory. I beg you, avoid RC explanations of Scripture, even if they sound good. Especially if they sound good.

    I think a bipartite view is simpler, does not deny the soul or the body, does not muddle the second birth, and does not lead to philosophical speculation.

    “Simpler” does not equal “true”. Besides, most of the complications you’re having trouble with are caused by false assumptions (not to mention RC input). A proper understanding of the existence of the human spirit does not deny the soul or the body nor does it muddle the second birth. As for “philosophical speculation”, that can happen with any doctrine, true or false.

    That verse in Hebrews could be referring to the two natures.

    Um, no, it couldn’t, not if words and context have any meaning. The text says clearly “soul and spirit”, not “old nature and new nature”.

    I notice that the KJV refers to the new nature as the inward man, which makes it clear that the new nature is human and not to be confused with the Holy Spirit.

    Fine, but that says nothing about the spirit of man, which I’m not confusing with the Holy Spirit. You seem to be reading your own assumptions into my statements and Scripture.

    The 1984 NIV had “inner self” in at least one instance, and that is new age lingo.

    I commend your aversion to New Age nonsense, but you’re handicapping yourself severely in your fight against it when you allow yourself to be influenced by RC sources and make unwarranted assumptions based on the conflating of terms. Let Scripture interpret itself, stay away from RC nonsense, and you’ll have a much easier time rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

  34. I am not making assumptions about anything you believe. I am just saying that the tripartite view adds an unnecessary complication. So often I hear it offered as an analogy to the Trinity. Three persons in one being is fine, I guess the hymn Holy, Holy, Holy influnces my articulation.

    I agree that humans and angels are both spirits. I just don’t see a substance distinction between the spirit of man and the soul of man or why it matters. Spirit and flesh, spiritual and carnal, spiritual and soulish are ways Paul uses to distinguish the two natures of the Christian, and Jesus makes such distinction in his conversation with Nicodemus, so when I read Hebrews, such a distinction is what I expect. Hebrews was written to baby Christians who have trouble grasping elementary things such as what the cross accomplished, so I see no issue with the context.

    I don’t know what version you are using, but I Cor 3:15 KJV does say, as by fire. I probably shouldn’t have said, “through”. I agree with you that the fire is not purgatory.

    No, I am not relying on a Roman Catholics. I am expressing my disappointment that when I do a search, the only source that brings any clarity to the issue at all is an unsaved Catholic, unless I count a CRI article or CS Lewis, and they too have huge issues.

    The tripartite view is a doctrine I never knew. The bipartite view was one I could form as a child, independently of outside sources, before I ever heard of the three Greek morons. No Catholics were needed. The tripartite view is one I would never have known without the influence of the likes of TD Jakes, which influence I do not trust. Then I got on BlackVoices.com (extinct), a forum I had no business being on, where unbelievers were worshiping the sun, while the fake Christians were spouting this trinity in man view, along with other wild nonsense such as throwing oily grapes around, and word of faith blasphemy dominated. And after leaving, I wake up I find that 99% of evangelicals believe this thing that I never knew.

    The spirit or soul of man, or whatever you call it, before it is saved, is dead in sin and needs to be quickened. If only the spirit of man (and of course God) knows what is in the man, and the soul doesn’t, you have just made nonsense of the whole notion. I’m pretty sure my soul knows what is in me. I have never once heard this view articulated and not seen confusion follow it, and this example of yours is a case in point.

    When I said that the simple view denies neither the body nor the soul, I mean that it avoids the twin heresies of materialism and gnosticism, yet you have a fine way of interpreting my words as being at you. The complicated view sounds gnostic to me, and I reject it, because it draws my mind to esoteric knowledge and away from my first love. I have come to abhor it more than Calvinism.

    In my sincere attempt to prove all things, I am convinced that the tripartite idea corrupts from the simplicity of Christ. On the other hand, the dual nature of the Christian has proven absolutely vital to dealing with the confusion of lordship damnation and understanding my position in Christ, and it illuminates many verses.

  35. Jason and Chas, you have both had an opportunity to express your views in this subject.

    I would respectfully request that we move on.

  36. Excellent ! Amen! Great post! God bless you!

  37. Already done that, johninnc!
    I wonder whom Huckleberry2012 is referring to?

  38. Chas, I’m not sure to whom Huckleberry was responding.

  39. “Jesus and movies don’t mix”. Accurate if they mean you can’t serve two masters. But if they mean that things of this world can seperate you from his love, that is lordship. Or if they presume to be your conscience, they are going to far.

    “Anyone who can’t die to video games for a season has no right to call Jesus Lord”. Said by Michael Brown in How Saved are We, which Voice of the Martyrs promoted. Both ministries are very heavy on lordship. They think pleasure indulgence is a bad sign of the state of your soul. On the contrary, this statement tells me they don’t trust Jesus.

  40. jason, if they mean that there are “signs” that someone has eternal life, that is simply heretical.

    We have had several comments about Michael Brown in the past. He should be marked and avoided. Please see links below:

    https://expreacherman.com/2011/04/08/discernment-ministries-gone-wrong/#comment-36352

    https://expreacherman.com/2016/08/16/lordship-salvation-the-baptist-faith-and-message-is-an-affront-to-the-gospel/#comment-65669

  41. The very title of the book How Saved are We is very creepy. Brown and Wurmbrand were two lordship influences on my life during my time of confusion. Shock and awe aimed at one’s assurance was their M.O.

    I was unfortunate enough to find one of Andy Stanley’s books in the midst of the junk in my car accumulated from six months of my sister’s borrowing: “How Good is Good Enough?”. One would not know from the content of the book that Andy associates himself with those who answer that they are.

  42. at anytime we turn away from the Truth of The Gospel we start looking at ourselves, our externals and or atmosphere..
    atmosphere as in candels, crosses, bumper stickers ect…

    I’m better than you because i don’t
    oh yeah well i better than you because im not bound by your dont’s

  43. the bottom line for me with Andy Stanley is there is no bottom line. Its what Andy Stanley does Not say is the problem.
    anyone not filled with the Spirit and serving the Lord is filled with all kinds of nonsense of thoughts.. Mega Churches like Andy Stanley pray on that by focusing on sin management rather than Christ Jesus. They make no distinction between saved and lost and treat all people like an unsaved psychologist and the people love it that way.

    If it is popular 95 % its not the Gospel

  44. I’m better than you because I don’t say I’m better than you, lol.

  45. And for hating megacurches because they are the world, Andy calls us selfish. I call him worldly. I can’t stand megachurches. I was going to a Baptist church 3 years ago, too many programs. They were overhauling the sanctuary, they called it Pillar of Fire, they raised funds. My heart wasn’t in it, I left. It became a megachurch.

    Last year, I read posts on this site about how to mark and avoid a lordship church. I applied it to that church, found their statement, saw repent of sins. Much of the Christian community I had grown up with was there. I called a friend from the church I had not met for a year, tried to point him to this site. His response? He pointed me to Brother Lawrence. I tried to warn him about contemplative prayer. He assured me it wasn’t. I looked up Practicing the Presence, saw the worst. I haven’t called him since. So much to mark and avoid, it drives me nanners.

  46. yeah that’s something to hand over to the Lord. Growing up in my area as well and comming to realize all the people i know and grew up around and looked up to are /were simply being religious (carnal moral) . They dont drink smoke or chew but sure can pound a hammer and nail to make up for it. They will straighten out a nails out too.
    The small country church in my area i was told im lower than low for questioning the pastor on the Gospel and saying thats not the Gospel.
    I guess chasing the church vistors off my property didn’t help either. but sure did feel good when they couldn’t simply tell me my sins are paid for.

  47. Most of my beliefs were formed in that community I grew up with. They used to go to a church called Bethel Baptist. As far as my memory can reconstruct, they had been free grace, but some subtle lingo had crept in, invite Jesus and all that. Strangely, repent of sins wasn’t one of them. I drifted away from them and chased after some hardcore lordship teachings. I looked at church history too much, which was really tradition. Meanwhile, Bethel was taken over by MacArthurites, and the flock started changing churches. Most of them ended up at the megachurch they are at. When I finally made a U-turn, I find that the community has joined the zombie friendly movement. I don’t want zombies on my lawn. “Bethel” is now associated in my mind with the mother of abominable movements. I wake up one day and find I am better off playing video games than going to a church, what a world.

  48. God cannot be in the presence of sin. So before the Holy Spirit can come to dwell in a person, the separation between that person and God must be removed. That separation is inherited sin from Adam. Once sin has been fully dealt with, through faith in Christ’s attoning sacrifice alone, that person has been reconciled to God. God can now see that person as fully righteous in Christ and can therefore dwell in that person in the Person of the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Holy Spirit in that person gives him the capability and desire to subdue the flesh, for he now is made a partaker of God’s Divine nature, but the subduing of the flesh is not automatic – it requires that the person choose to walk in His Spirit and thus not in the flesh. The “new nature” is only new to the person who now posseses it, but in reality it is a nature that has always existed, as it is God’s Divine nature. In the same way, the spiritual life that person now posseses is God’s very life in them. Without the life and strength provided by God, the person can do nothing.

  49. “Obey the bishops” is second century teaching, alive and well today.

  50. “Repent of sins” does not occur in scripture. I don’t see “very life of God” occurring , either. It does occur in Eastern Orthodox teaching and Catholic encyclicals. This is theosis. I’m not doing a Hanegraaff. I reject.

  51. jason, when we are regenerated, we receive some attributes of God (eternal life, and sinlessness in our new man (see 1 John 3:9)), yet we do not receive other attributes of God (such as omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence).

    I don’t think anyone is trying to teach theosis here.

  52. Being made in God”s image also implies sharing some attributes and not others, so I agree.

    I have become hypersensitive to both theosis lingo and lordship lingo, because I have labored under both teachings. Sorry if I have overreacted.

  53. Is it fair to say that it is impossible for the unsaved person to subdue the flesh? Seeing as self-control (temperance) is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

  54. Brad, there are many unsaved people who exhibit self-control, patience, etc. That is why fruit inspection is such a fruitless pursuit. However, only someone who is saved is able to walk in the Spirit and subdue the flesh in a spiritual way.

    Check out the link below:

    https://expreacherman.com/stemming-fruit-inspection/

  55. Brad
    anything an unbeliever can do that a believer does is not spirituality.
    Spirituality is vertical and invisible for spirituality is in our thinking.

  56. Too true. I’ve seen enough good works in the world.

  57. I was just now listening to a podcast from Old Paths about the occult history of Artificial Intelligence. I never saw the wisdom in letting computers drive our cars.

  58. Thanks for the replies. What does it mean then to be a slave to sin? Wouldn’t that imply that an unregenerate sinner has only the capacity to sin? Is it the fact that when an unregenerate person does a good deed outwardly, their motivation for that deed is still sinful inwardly (i.e. self glorification or self righteousness)?

    From the “Secure Forever!” book (Charles Ryrie quote): “Conversion brings with it a new capacity with which we may now serve God and righteousness. Before salvation we were servants of sin, but now we may be servants of righteousness (Romans 6:18-20). The unsaved man has only one capacity, but the Christian has two. This means that the unsaved person has only one course of action-to serve sin and self, or to leave God out of his life-while the believer has an option. He may serve God, and as long as he is in a human body he may also choose to leave God out and live according to the old nature”.

  59. Oh no, I just caught that audio from Jason Cooley saying repent of sin. It was good up to that point.

  60. Brad, the quote from Ryrie is a decent one, although we would prefer that you not quote him here.

    Being a slave to sin means The unregenerate man has not been freed from the penalty of sin, or the resultant consequences. He can do nothing of himself to escape them. He also has no power over sin, because everything he does – no matter how noble it may seem to himself or others – is done in the flesh. Accordingly, all of his works are filthy rags – no matter how kind, virtuous, or well intentioned.

    Some people are worse than others, but all unsaved people are equally bad off.

    The new man is sinless. The believer who is walking in the Spirit will not simultaneously fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

  61. as believers in Christ Jesus.. the old sin (notice called old sin nature) nature has been made inoperative.
    we don’t Have to serve the sin nature. We have been set free to serve God Freely.

    There is no middle ground. We either serve christ or self.
    we either have fellowship or out of fellowship.
    no middle ground.
    Spirituality and Growth seperate

    belivers are either spiritual or carnal.
    carnal moral or carnal immoral

  62. katmazdobelieve

    This was a good discussion. Thanks.

    I have a family member that keeps telling my children that when ever they use language they feel is inappropriate, regardless of what the language is or isn’t, they tell my children that it “makes Jesus cry”. This really bothers me.
    Kate

  63. Sound just like lordship. Keeps telling us that whatever we are doing is sin, regardless of whether the deed is right or wrong. And if we believe the gospel, lordship tells us we are turning grace into a license.

  64. Jason, catching up and reading way above, I had this friend who was reading this “wonderful little book” she wanted to share with me. Of course it was Practicing the Presence”. When I tried to warn her about brother Lawrence’s contemplative and mystic ways, she mocked me and found it “nitpicky and ridiculous” that I would find this sweet little old monk to be anything to be afraid of (as if I were afraid). She then assured me he was just trying to get closer to God.

    This was the same one that was sure all her RC friends were saved because she prayed with them during the 40 days for life marches and she could tell by how sincere their prayers were (I’m sure they were as much as humanly possible, I have met some of them, very nice people)… But how loving is it to now share the truth with them? How loving is it to not point out error?

    This is the same one who got very angry when I spoke on Billy Graham’s errors, and years ago found Jack Weaver to be a heretic (because he preached that repent did not = repent from sin, and turning from sin was a work) and warned me I needed to stay away from him. What a wonderful blessing that I had to be able to talk with Jack, fellowship with him, to know him, this side of heaven…

    She was very unhappy about me speaking about the Duck Dynasty’s errors (church of Christ), or the 18 and counting people not preaching the correct gospel. Time and time again she slid right into error, and she defended this loadship or contemplative error and ironically used her ‘discernment’ of Benny Hinn while carnal as ‘proof’ she was ‘really saved’. But as she seemed to come out of all this error she was in over the years, she evidently started to get a sense of pride of things she ‘never’ did, or things she ‘always’ did when she was ‘steeped in sin’. Trouble is, the common denominator was still there — law. She was in bondage, being bewitched and bewitching others. We can think we’re living by grace, but even if so, we’ll be fortunate if somehow we haven’t subverted the truth of the gospel by our backdoor loadship perseverance of the saints thinking.

    In the end this woman warned others that I (and others of ‘my group’) ‘took grace too far’ (because the Bible clearly shows there are carnal believers who are even not remorseful for heinous sins). Yet she related her experience of being carnal as different because there were things she ‘always’ or ‘never’ did as proof she was saved. This is where anyone can get in trouble, when we relate experience or feelings to somehow be the same as the truth of God’s Word.

    Not relating any of this to you, but your mention of Brother Lawrence brought it to the forefront. Made me think of the many years of this woman being in error and bondage, only to continue as recently as a year ago, to point to her behavior as proof of ‘being saved’. She is no longer a friend, as she was causing others to fall into doubt with her behind the scenes emails and phone calls of POS. She is older and I pray she will be set free from this thinking. But until then, this kind of thinking causes young ones to stumble, and costs countless others their souls.

  65. Curtis, your story of chasing the church people away made me smile. I tend to be too long-suffering and I don’t mean that in a good way. I mean for it to be good, but I lack the ability (getting better) to know when to cut off these people. I want to be patient, gentle, want to recover people from error, but at the same time, (as in the story of the woman above), I can tend to let people linger too long, and I suffer in that I wonder about my culpability in giving them place for too long. I pray for any that I caused to stumble via letting certain people into other’s lives. God bless you for letting them know why they weren’t give place for an hour, because they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel. 🙂

    I write pastors, and I let them know (when I run across them) why I feel that something doesn’t line up with the truth of the gospel. I use the Word to do it. The majority, (high majority) there is no response. I have had a couple respond with condescension. And I have had worse (name called, told to blow it out your nose Jezebel, shut my trap, etc.) by pastors. One is bbfohio. I marvel at how fast these ‘men of God’ can show their fangs by just using His Word. I thank God for the sharpness of His Word, because I don’t need to say or do one thing, just use His Word and you will watch them grow angry. I realize pastors are extremely busy, but think on the few sound ones we know and how they are willing to answer. May God bless them and keep them strong, replenished, refreshed and revived by His Word.

  66. Brad, by saying we possess ‘God’s very life in us’, you are saying what they say in Rhema and WOF teachings (people like Kenneth Hagin, Copeland and others) or television personalities like Marian Williamson or Oprah…who attribute it to us being divine, instead of Christ living in us, instead of His power, His nature, His being, they twist it to mean that it is “God imparting His very nature, substance, and being to our human spirits” (Hagin). We become the divine.

    Like Jason I squirm a little when phraseology is used that we don’t see in Scripture, but we do see in aberrant teachings. I’d like to caution you as a sister in Christ just about reading too much from man. Learn from His Word, do ask the multitude of counsel. Be cautious with those like Ryrie who taught backdoor loadship (although a lot of us didn’t know). Be careful with too many teachers. God bless you in your studies.

  67. Thanks for saying that, Holly. Cringing over unbiblical phrases is exactly what this site is about: repent of sin, ask Jesus into your heart, truly saved, etc. Sounding like the world and not the Word.

  68. Katmazdobelieve… Whoever they are, sometimes we have to take a really firm stand. I too have a family member who has told my children I take this or that too far (with the gospel or church teachings). But we have to answer to God for how our children are raised, and what they learn Biblically speaking. I don’t want my children being taught to compromise. This person often says things like “I don’t feel the need to nitpick everyone”, or “I don’t think I’m called’ to do that” (name bad gospels or warn about bad teachers). I love this person, but I can’t allow them to introduce error into my children’s life without being withstood to their face (with kindness but firmness). I tell this one we are ALL to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered, and if we don’t defend the gospel, what will we answer for? Who might believe a different gospel? We are ALL to mark and avoid, we are ALL to expose the evil to the light, we are not to fellowship with the unfruitful deeds of darkness.

    And we don’t want them to teach our children something to be true that we don’t see specifically in Scripture. As for the Jesus crying thing, I believe I’d just correct them with, “Jesus wept for those who rejected Him. And Jesus sweated tears of blood before He suffered and died on the cross for our sins. But now He has washed us in His blood, and He sees us white as snow. So of course we should want to try to do better with His help because of His great love for us.” Then you could maybe point them to it’s good to be renewed and transformed (Rom 12:2), or to add to our faith (2 Pet 1:5-9) and washed in the water by His Word (Eph 5:26) that this is how we are ‘practically’ sanctified and more able to walk in the Spirit vs. walking in the flesh. Just some thoughts, but I want you to know, ‘oh how I relate’…

  69. Curtis, you say “the old sin nature has been made inoperative.” Definition of inoperative:a.not functioning or b.not capable of being used. If this were true we could not choose to walk in the flesh because it simply wouldn’t function any more. Only our new sinless nature would be operable, therefore all Believers would be completely spiritual all the time. Not sure how this is different from sinless perfection. What does it feel like to be completely spiritual? According to your criteria I must be completely carnal all the time.I have never had any fellowship with God. I have to say it feels hopeless. I must be missing something. I am saved but I do not feel like I have been saved from the power of sin over me. I do not ‘fit in’ here and yet I don’t seem to fit in with unbelievers either. Does everyone that posts here feel they are completely spiritual? All the time, most of the time?

  70. Jon, I sometimes find myself thinking (and doing) things that are not consistent with my new nature. I think any of us who are honest would say the same thing. I won’t try to quantify the extent to which I am spiritual (certainly not all of the time).

    I will reaffirm our statement of faith on our flesh vs. our new nature:

    A child of God has two births; one of the flesh, the other of the Spirit, giving man a flesh nature and a Spirit nature. The flesh nature is neither good nor righteous. The Spiritual Man does not commit any sin. This results in a warfare between the Spirit and the flesh, which continues until physical death, or the return of the Lord. The flesh nature of the man does not change in any way with the new birth, but can be controlled and kept subdued by the new man as the believer is obedient to the Lord through His Word. John 3:3-7; Romans 7:15-25; Romans 8:8; Galatians 5:17; I John 3:9; I Peter 1:23; I John 5:18.

  71. yeah Jon been thinking about that “sin nature being inoperative” maybe better to say inoperative to serve God.
    God declares the old sin nature worthless and must be done away with.. God has in Christ Jesus who came in flesh to pay for sin.
    Now the ole fable White Dog Black Dog wich ever one we feed the most lives is only 1/2 truth. When we Trust Jesus as our Saviour God puts to death the negative sin nature giving us a brand new life to Live in the flesh Galatians 2:20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    Notice Faith OF when we place faith in Christ Jesus
    God magnifies/ glorifies Christ Jesus by His faith The Life Jesus walked before the father.. a perect life.
    Galatians 2:20 is were the KJV is superior in this verse of scripture translation.

  72. along with what Johninc said..

    the key to living the Christian life is admit we have not been admit our failures (sin)
    God wants Truth in the inward parts..
    I can’t live the Christian Life it must all be by Christ.
    God i can’t live the Christian Life.
    God is not asking us to. God does not want our help to live the Christian Life. Thats the problem when we try..

  73. Maybe better to say inoperative grammatically. The operative word is justified.

  74. More on my lost friend who recommeded the Presence. About 5 years ago, he was more grace than I was. He asked me what I thought of the bumper sticker, “America, bless God”. He asked if I thought it had more grace than the usual patriotic blessing. That question tricked me, lol. He told me about how MacArthurism destroyed our former church. I was curious to know more, but couldn’t get more out of him. He told me about a bible study based on 1st John. He said it clearly taught eternal security. But it wasn’t clear to me at all back then. Indeed, much of that epistle needs to be rightly divided. I asked him questions, and he was like, that is talking about someone who is consciously an enemy of God. Ok, I guess that’s enough repenting. Not sure.

    He and I used to call each other once a month. I got a job, and it exhausted me so much I had no time for company. The next year I resigned and have not had a job since. All my computer skills have become unprofitable. Then last year, I call him, and he doesn’t seem interested in grace at all. I want to talk about this site, and he is not interested. Instead, he wants me to read a Catholic. I even told him about my change of mind. and both he and his wife think that unless we turn our backs on God, we remain saved. That is not eternal security. He reminded me of what our pastor 20 years ago preached, and I never remembered that pastor ever saying anything like that.

    I am like, what happened to both of us? Did we both have a change of mind in the opposite direction simultaneously? I knew at that point, he and I would never be on the same page. Not that we ever were. He also was not interested in Hanegraaff when I was. I was in error, but I needed someone to talk to about it. So I never called back. I’ve lost my friend.

    The former pastor of the megachurch had retired. I downloaded the last sermon he preached, and he preached the Real Presence in the Lord’s supper. That church is becoming episcopal, shocker.

  75. Jon, if you have believed on Christ and Him crucified for you, you belong here. We are all at varying levels of growth, some of us struggle more with the flesh than others. Some don’t have much fellowship locally with people or good teaching locally. We come from all walks. All of us need to make a decision to walk in the Spirit, and I think sometimes it’s several times a day and maybe sometimes we don’t, or don’t think to do it. The example we have of the epistles is that people struggled. We sometimes make it too complicated as we do too much work ourselves then figure we just can’t do it. We can’t without His help. Just really take a hard look at Luke 10:38-42, and Prov 22:17-21, 1 John 2:27, 2 Tim 2:15. Spend some time when you can in His Word. We desperately need it to become disciples. Try to pray for more things. Don’t attempt to be spiritual, just try to spend some more time with Him. I pray you will just keep getting up with His help and continue in His Word. Abide in Him and when you don’t, go back again, He’s never going to forsake us or leave us. Love in Christ.

  76. what Holy said..

    also for me personally false and weak teaching really messes me up.. Even with the best intentions to seek fellowship locally all the churches in my area the Clear Simple Gospel of Grace is not around here. i can not sacrifice sound doctrine for fellowship that is weak or false teaching.
    when going through a trial first thing is i back track and ponder if heard or was exposed to bad or weak doctrine. The weak doctrine is worse for me because of what is not said. its not completely false its lacking and ad’s a morsel of human effort.
    for me is to make sure i am listening to biblically sound doctrine over a pulpit that understands justification santification glorification.
    the difficulty for me is enduring sound doctrine after realizing sound doctrine has been missing from my walk with Christ 30 some years even while attending a IFCA Church for about 10 years.
    How could so much of the scriptures be left unsaid and unrealized in my life all theese years? That is hard guess thats why we are told to endure it.
    I have made so many very very simple stupid business decisions simply because my thinking was not correct.

  77. Lordship hard believism
    Keeping on keeping on
    Repetition
    When will it end
    1000 congregants
    Loud music
    Can’t hear the words
    Can’t sing along
    But it’s all part of go to church
    Read your bible and pray
    Eternal security not said
    Did not truly believe
    Jesus not lord at all because he isn’t lord of all
    Wolves everywhere
    They say the damnedest things
    Make him lord
    Surrender your life
    Islam
    Call Francis your brother
    March with them for life
    Vote Pharasee
    It has a purpose to deceive
    Repent of sin
    Turn or burn
    Believing isn’t enough
    Doing good isn’t enough
    Right motives isn’t enough
    One wrong word proves you didn’t have it
    When is it enough
    You will never know
    You could be perfect and still hear
    The deaded words
    I never knew you
    I guess hell is made not only for devils
    But also the unelect
    Give up
    Play games
    Watch movies, read worldly books
    Disregard whatever anyone says
    About Harry Potter
    Just another sin to repent of
    Like any other
    It won’t be enough
    Enjoy life while you can
    Everyone comes to the same end
    It’s all vanity
    But it may as well be enoyable vanity
    Like playing Bloons Monkey City
    Placing towers
    Collecting bananas
    Making sacrifices
    Going for round 100
    Nothing new under the sun
    But wait
    The gospel comes
    Simple and clear
    Look and live
    Just like Moses and the serpent
    Drawn by the cross
    Standing on the promise
    The resurrection and the life
    Repent of sin not necessary
    Even damningly unnecessary
    Life now has purpose
    Not to be lovers of the world
    But to love the world as Christ
    Who died for the world’s sins
    To share the gospel
    To redeem the time
    To give testimony
    To glorify God
    By giving thanks
    Abiding in Him
    Being in the Word
    Resisting the flesh
    Love casting out fear
    Stand fast in the liberty
    Wherein you are free
    Not to be enslaved again
    For freedom we are set free
    Life eternal
    Cannot be lost
    Cannot outsin grace
    Cannot return the gift to sender
    One day we will be done
    With the troubles of the world
    He will wipe away every tear
    No more night
    No more hurricanes
    Tree of life
    No more sin
    Remembered no more
    The distance from east to west
    Like a Riemann surface
    Is the distance of infinity
    No more night or perpetual night
    Which is it
    Only believe

  78. I have a question, why is it so many people that profess “grace” show so little of it? I mean even in the anti-Lordship Salvation camp. I get it fron the GES people because I don’t agree with Bob Wilkin’s definition of repentance. I get it from the IFB people because I don’t hold to KJVO, and received some pretty foul threats and names because I disagreed on an issue. How can people claim grace and yet show so little? Yet so many LS people seem like they’re trying to out-Christian each other and least fake it, if they aren’t actually sincere. It really makes me wonder if perhaps the Calvinists have it right and I’m just not chosen. There is no rest it seerms.

  79. SoCal, good question and good reminder for us to be gracious, gentle, and wise while proclaiming and defending the gospel.

  80. It’s been a long road to KJVP for me. I have researched Jack Hyles, Ben Mott, Jon Crosby, Steve Anderson, Steve van Nattan, David Stewart, the Bob Joneses. Some of these people are wicked. Jack Hyles was caught molesting boys. These people condemn Harry Potter and watch porn. I get the impression that IFB is a cult. These people may be saved and carnal or double-minded like Luther. I can’t tell. I wouldn’t feel saved in their churches. I’d be better off playing video games.

    I don’t get any of that from Tom Cucuzza. He will tell you that being Baptist does not make you saved. I love how he says, don’t worry about the bilderbergers, go have a big mac.

  81. All I know is I have no rest. I’m tired of the fight. all I can do is just live out whatever time is left and accept my fate.

  82. Hey Jason.. Duluth Bible Church is having a grace conference starting today till Sunday at the church facebook link below.
    its a Hispanic church but Randy Zemple will be preaching in English with a translator.
    maybe we could meet up there.
    i pondering going Sunday
    my contact information just click on my profile

    https://m.facebook.com/pg/ibdga/about/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=1

  83. Pastor Tom Northland Baptist Church.
    Baptist is in name only not doctrine.
    one of his sermons he talks about how Northland came to be. but i forgot what he said

  84. IFB and all of Works for salvation crowd are having thoughts that would make getting drunk a step up. That’s what Jesus was hitting the religious with. (Now im using getting drunk as an illustration. dont get drunk.)
    The pharasies were very nice glad handing people the kind of people you would want in a church. BUT call them Carnal Like Jesus did and they will reach for rocks.

    31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you

  85. SoCal, I am praying for you to receive encouragement, comfort, and strength.

  86. yep socal im just looking to finish well at this point in my life. “I now live” i have this memorized 20 some years and just saw this in a message preached wendsay night. last night.. planning on posting sermon when it is uploaded. its like the Pastor has been reading this thread.

    I now live
    I now live
    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

  87. It occurs to me that Huckleberry2012 was probably referring to the original post. It is a common reaction to post one’s thoughts, without direct reference, about the OP, not bothering to notice what was commented before. I’ve done that.

    Back on topic, I feel that all I can do is do what I can with the life and time God has given me, holding on to what little I have. I used to have big dreams, was disappointed. If I can win a soul or build someone up in the faith, it would mean more to me than all the bible reading and praying in the world. Pray without ceasing is impossible to do literally, so I take it to mean abiding in the Word. Christ lives in me through what I can do, not what I can’t do.

  88. Curtis, the idea of meeting up sounds excellent.

  89. Curtis, I did not see where to click on your profile.

    “Whether of them twain did the will of his father?”. Another verse connecting believe with the will of the father. So many twist I never knew you.

  90. well that explains a lot.. i thought people could see my contact information under my frog and crane picture..
    oh well. will email Johninc to forward to you..

  91. Holly(and Curtis and John) thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I appreciate the verses to look up and the good advice. I have put my faith in Christ alone to save me the best way I know how. I have heard and seen the gospel presented clearly numerous times by Yankee Arnold and Tom Cucuzza. I have also read the Gospel booklet by Clear Gospel (Ron Shea-I believe) a few times as well. Recently I have watched some stuff from Jim Scudder Jr. as well. He also seems very clear on Grace and uses the wallet to represent sin method. There are no sound churches that I know of in my area unfortunately.
    I have been discouraged lately as I quit my job a few months back due to stress and have been unable to find work. I had a pretty good habit of reading my Bible at work every night but kind of fell out of my routine now that I’m unemployed. I apologize if I have seemed confrontational or antagonistic here.
    My wife and I recently watched a message by Tom C., I think it was an Easter message. He mentioned that if you are hurting Christ will come along side you and comfort you. It was very encouraging and felt like exactly what I needed to hear right then.

  92. Jon, I have continued to pray for you – particularly for comfort and encouragement.

  93. Praying Jon

  94. here is 5/17 wendsay nite message. its like Pastor Rokser that goes along with the recent discussion here

  95. Jon and Socal Exile, some teach that the churches of Revelation are only literal churches, I see them as literal churches for sure, but I see them as types within the church. I think on the church at Philadelphia. It’s not much longer, and we may have a little strength, but with His help, and with His Word, may we make the best of His time and comfort one another with the words that He is coming again to catch us up to Him in the clouds, and so shall we ever be with the Lord (for those who believe in believers being cast into outer darkness).

    Praying for you guys to find comfort in His Word (Rom 15:4; Ps 119:25, 28) and that He might bring you another believer (or so) whether in the flesh, or online to fellowship with. God bless you both, and the rest of you all here 🙂

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