Lordship Salvation: How U (1/2) 2 Fans Reject Christ

By johninnc and janeinnc

Ephesians 2:8-9: [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There have been many articles written on the subject of Lordship “salvation” and what it is, and isn’t.

What LS is: LS is salvation by faith in Christ + works. LS is a formula for rejecting Christ.

LS is the unsupportable belief that the PERFORMANCE of works, the PROMISE of works, or the EVIDIENCE of works must accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.

The Bible teaches that faith and works do not mix for salvation:

Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Since faith and works cannot be mixed for salvation, LS is simply salvation by works.

What LS isn’t: LS isn’t faith in Christ. LS isn’t the gospel. LS isn’t Christianity.

Are Lordship “salvationists” (LSers) saved? It depends on whether they have ever had a moment in which they trusted in Christ ALONE as Savior.

Either way, LSers do not believe the gospel now.

The false LS formula is: “Salvation” = Faith in Christ + U (½) 2*

* “You have to”

Common forms of “you have to”:

  • You have to desire a relationship with Christ
  • You have to want your life to change for the better
  • You have to want to stop sinning
  • You have to love God
  • You have to have your heart set on obeying Christ
  • You have to be passionate
  • You have to believe in your heart, not just your head
  • You have to confess your sins
  • You have to be willing to turn from your sins
  • You have to surrender your life to Christ
  • You have to commit your life to Christ
  • You have to show evidence of good works
  • You have to be moving in the right direction
  • You have to love your fellow man
  • You have to follow Jesus in discipleship
  • You have to persevere in your faith
  • You have to, you have to, you have to…!

—————————————————————————————————-

Following are excerpts of a Facebook interchange between Jane and a U (½) 2 proponent (LSer), in which the LSer reads, and summarily rejects, the truth of the gospel:

LSer: Salvation by grace is one of the bedrock teachings of Baptists. For most of us it is in our blood. I speak as a Baptist preacher’s kid, a deacon, and a frequent short term foreign missionary. Nobody does salvation by grace like us.

Jane: Look at the Southern Baptist Convention website “How to be Saved.”You will see 3 works you must do to be saved – none are biblical: 1. It plainly states that receiving salvation is a commitment before it even tells you the plan of salvation. (The receiving of salvation does NOT involve a commitment! If you must make a commitment, you are doing a work.); 2. Repent of your sins. (The Bible tells us to repent (change the mind), but never to repent of our sins – unless you are reading another version where that was added, so that is a work); 3. You are told to “confess Jesus as your Lord and your God – this is to surrender control of your life to Jesus” (If you must surrender control, then that is also a work).

LSer: …so a dispassionate statement of belief, with nothing behind it, and no intention to serve God in any way is all it takes…interesting belief. Never heard that before.

Jane: That does not surprise me. Most people have never heard the Gospel clearly explained. The Gospel is not about what we do for Christ, it’s about what He has done for us. If one thinks he must serve God in order to be saved, he is not trusting in Christ alone, he is trusting in Christ plus his commitment. Salvation is not a trade of our commitment in exchange for eternal life. It is the receipt of the free gift of eternal life through faith in Christ. If we could be saved by our commitment to Christ, He died in vain.

LSer: The difference of opinion is about what constitutes works. Accepting Christ as our Savior certainly sounds like a relationship to me.

Jane: Nope. Not a relationship, a gift. If you were to pull my drowning carcass from a lake, I may just walk off without a 2nd thought, I may spend the rest of my life thanking you, or I may drift in and out of your life to express appreciation from time to time. Regardless, in all circumstances, I have still been saved from death.

LSer: I guess the bottom line is that if you are going to define belief as any of us would, but commitment as works, we’ll never get together on this. Take care of yourself.

Jane: I’m sorry that you can’t let go of the commitment part. If you are even remotely curious, please check out the following: expreacherman.com, a blog where many articles have been written and biblicly supported regarding this topic, and northlandchurch.com, the website for Northland Bible Baptist Church (unaffiliated, of course). Dr. Cucuzza has an excellent video presentation of the grace plan of salvation.

42 responses to “Lordship Salvation: How U (1/2) 2 Fans Reject Christ

  1. Beholdason, I relate to your sentiments here. Like the proverbial “hands on a hot stove” recoil, so I have come to react to “church”. Sad, but true for me as of present.

    And yet, I am going to Prestonwood Baptist’s (Dallas) huge Christmas show in December with an older couple who I have known and loved for years. I’ve heard many criticisms of this church over the years, mainly for its concentration of wealth, but because of my dear friends I see it only in a positive light.

    So, in line with your thoughts, my friends ARE “the church” and that’s why I don’t get hung up on the human structure there. Hmm…maybe it’s also because I have the freedom of an outsider. I’m certain that if I joined my dream world of positivity would crumble! Ha!

    I do hope to overcome this block and somehow learn to STAND in any environment, especially the visible church where authority structures feel the need to mess with you (guilt, condemnation, etc.).

  2. Thanks Jack. No offense meant, my apologies if my comment was angsty.

    I am of the opinion that the church is the people of God, assembled. The way that “the church” today is referred to as an institution or a PLACE is concerning at best. Many people do not analyse why people say “My Pastor’s church is xyz” or “I go to xyz Church”.

    The Church is the people.

    WHY then do people refer to it as a PLACE?

    Does anyone wonder WHY?

    I don’t “go to church”. I meet WITH the church, in my home, sporadically.

    When I consider the modern day “Pastorate”, I do not see something which can be found in the NT. I find a lot of scripture twisting to justify salaried to serve men who usurp the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    That said, I am sure many Pastors are men who love the Lord and love His people.

    But since taking one huge step away from Churchianity, I find little in my bible which looks anything like the Social Club which people go to one one hour per week.

    Worship is in Spirit and in Truth. Not in Jerusalem nor up in the mountains.

    Have no idea how we got the idea that building temples was a good idea.

    How much does it cost to build and maintain church buildings?

    Anyway, just where I’m at I suppose.

    THANKFULLY I am saved by God’s grace and not by my allegiance to a Sunday club where I’m required to do X amount of good works to validate my profession.

  3. One thing further – God only changes His judgment in one direction – He moves people from “condemned” to “not condemned” once they have believed in Jesus. He never moves a believer from “not condemned” to “condemned.”

  4. A lot of people like Frank Viola or others similar that have written books suggesting we meet like the ‘early church’. They seem to miss that although some met in homes, the Jewish people met in Synagogues which were buildings and there is nothing wrong with having a church building. I believe the Church at Corinth had a large fellowship so likely they met in some sort of building unless they knew someone who had a very large home.

    I do think when church buildings have their membership grow so large that there is no church discipline, no accountability, no discipline, no marking and avoiding of false teaching, the ‘church’ isn’t going to be attending there for long (unless bewitched by the teaching that was coming into the early church), called Judaizing, but the same as lordship.

  5. Jack;
    Thank you so much for that explanation. Extremely helpful and well worded, even if you ARE blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other! (Something my Glaucoma stricken Grandmother always used to say). 8}
    God be with you and keep you Dear Jack.

  6. Beholdason

    I note a bit of angst in your words, and perhaps rightly so because of my unfortunate choice of the word “had” as I sought brevity. So, pease pardon me if I break our brevity rule and become necessarily verbose.

    What did I intend by the word, “had”? I am not an English Grammarian so please bear with me.

    The history of our church fellowship:
    After graduation and ordination from Florida Bible College at age 41 (December, 1972), I was asked to serve as pastor of a group of friends/believers. I agreed and sold my business — for which I was thankful because our fellowship of believers was never able to pay anyone a salary, so my business proceeds certainly helped for a few years. Additionally, my dear (now in Heaven) wife, Fern, worked full time doing her part to support financially and provide health insurance for our family of five. The Lord very graciously provided in many ways. Tom Cucuzza, our assistant pastor for a time never received pay from the church, nor did any of our other assistants or youth leaders.

    We met in my home at first and later with others in the fellowship. When we outgrew homes, we met for several years in a public school auditorium until someone filed a complaint, “church and state violation.” We then moved to a funeral home and finally, we rented an old abandoned church building.

    I was selected to be the pastor or teaching Elder. We elected a group of Godly men as Elders and Deacons to serve our group of believers. We never solicited money, “tithes” or donations in any way for any reason. We did have an old wooden bucket in the back of the assembly hall where folks could donate if anyone felt so led.

    That is pretty much the long version of what I meant when I used the unfortunate words “had a church.”

    The definition of the Biblical word church is:
    ekklesia, Greek
    ekklesia, [] ek-klay-see’-ah; from a compound of Greek (ek) and a derivative of Greek 2564 (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :-
    assembly, church.

    Your questions:
    a) what is a church to you?
    Answer:I agree with the Bible that a Biblical church is an assembly of believers, the Body of Christ who have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior (not just followers, but Believers)..

    b) to whom does the church belong to in the Scriptures?
    Answer: To God/Jesus Christ;

    Colossians 1:18
    “And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

    1 Timothy 3:15
    “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

    2 Thessalonians 1:1
    “Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:”

    c) is the church is the NT something which can be “had” by a person?
    My answer is above.

    You said further:
    This issue of “church” and what it truly is goes far deeper than the issue of Lordship Salvation.

    My Comment” I would disagree based on my theology and answers above.
    I know of nothing more destructive to the Gospel, the Church, the lost and believers than the accursed message of Lordship “salvation.”

    If my answers are inadequate. I apologize for the misunderstanding and unfortunate use of of the word “had.”

    Please forgive any typos as my eye has not fully recovered.

    I pray this helps you understand.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  7. Dino, the bottom line is this:

    God has already rendered a verdict on everyone.

    John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    If one believes this verse is true, then he should believe in Christ as his Savior. LSers don’t know if this verse is true and reliable, which is why they have such a fixation on behaviors, attitudes, direction, and so on for evidence of eternal life.

    If someone has never believed that through simple faith in Christ he has been removed from condemnation, then he has not been.

    John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    If someone believes this verse, he will believe that eternal life, once received by believing in Jesus as Savior, can never be lost or forfeited.

    The good news is that God desires that all men be saved. Therefore, those people alive today, who have never believed in Christ as Savior, still have an opportunity to do that.

    But, it is fleeting.

  8. Behold a Son

    I must visit my retinal specialist for an inoculation in my last good eye and I will be virtually blind the rest of the day… Please be patient and I will answer your questions as soon as possible.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  9. Hi ExP,

    You wrote:

    “Many years ago when I had a church in s. Florida”

    Just so I can understand what you are referring to, can you please explain:

    a) what is a church to you?

    b) to whom does the church belong to in the Scriptures?

    c) is the church is the NT something which can be “had” by a person?

    This issue of “church” and what it truly is goes far deeper than the issue of Lordship Salvation.

    The quote of yours I’ve posted above is worthy of discussion.

    I await your response.

  10. Thankyou Curtis.

    I remember one text of my former churchmate, who has LS belief, and he said that I should not let myself get affected by false teachings or else I would be alienated from God (unsaved). I laughed at that message and at the same time… Oh boy was I grieved because They will have a wedding come december and her girlfriend who also clings to LS belief and I was invited to be a witness.. God help me as I face them and all my former churchmates on their wedding day and MOST of them are LS.

  11. Hi John,

    You said

    “However, there are people who have received eternal life who become defectors from the faith. They do not lose their salvation, nor does their defection prove they were never saved.”

    I agree. Lot defected in the latter stages of his life, Including Demas and yes even solomon. But that cannot prove that they were not saved. Thank you for the verses. I know it’s the truth but sometimes some people finds it hard to grasp that God loves us that much and it still gets to me sometimes especially if I don’t have verses to back-up what I say that is why I keep notes of every verses I learn and this is another one worth keeping. I remember what yankee said that a practicing homosexual who trusts in Christ as savior and then dies as a homosexual after 10 years is still saved. I used to believe that he wasn’t until I realized that I was not any different from a homosexual not because I am a homosexual. I know I’m not. But as a sinner saved by grace, I sin and have stumbled in the whole law just as a homosexual has. So I am no different when it comes recognizing my sinful nature.

    James 2:10
    King James Version (KJV)
    For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

  12. Dino, I think it is possible that these particular people to whom Paul refers were never saved. However, there are people who have received eternal life who become defectors from the faith. They do not lose their salvation, nor does their defection prove they were never saved.

    Luke 8:13: They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    1 Timothy 1:9: Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

    2 Timothy 4:10: For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

  13. No Problem Jack.

    I encountered a person using this verse against me. He said that by this verse a person can choose to walk away from the faith and therefore lose his salvation

    1 John 2:19
    King James Version (KJV)
    They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    Please correct me if I am wrong.. I believed the passage is not pertaining to salvation. rather Paul was stressing that there are people who claims Jesus Christ but are not really born again because they have not placed their trust in Christ alone as savior; rather this passage explains the verse before it

    1 John 2:18
    Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    This passage simply refers to people who CLAIMED to know Christ but they did not believe in Jesus being God. I told him that this passage had nothing to do with eternal security. Was I correct?

  14. Dino,

    Thanks for telling me about your friends… I do not recognize them.

    But we are happy you have a church and friends who appreciate the free Grace gospel message of God’s Word.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  15. Dino, thanks for sending the names of your friends. We have noted them, but have chosen not to publish out of respect for their privacy.

  16. Welcome Dino
    there is only one remedy for sin , confess it and have it condemned to Hell .
    it is spiritually impossible and un biblical to ” repent of sin” because WE OUR Sinners.
    what more could a soul do with sin that Jesus has not already done by his shed blood ?

    P.S. and don’t forget to forgive yourself and get over yourself and know you are loved by the shed blood of Jesus . NO MATTER WHAT and love your neighbor as yourself even if you need to put up a fence

    the world of sin … Of sin, because they believe not on me

    Of righteousness……because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    Mic 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
    Mic 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
    Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

  17. Dino,

    We are pleased you listen to Tom Cucuzza. Many years ago when I had a church in s. Florida, Tom served as my Assistant Pastor and a great help he was. We hated to see him leave but the Lord has given him a very special ministry, his church and school, video and audio..

    Ask your friend who knows Tom to drop me a line via private ExP email.. Tom and I have many mutual friends through our church, Florida Bible College and his teaching at the Dr Scudder’s seminary and Grace Conference.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  18. Wow.. this article helps! I’m surprised to see Dr. Tom participated here!

    I’m so happy with my new church. A very good friend of Dr. tom is a member of that church where I am attending.

    False doctrines are spreading here fast… I spoke to some LS folks and said that even if they were wrong, they all believed they would still end up in heaven after reading Rob Bell’s book called “love wins” The book teaches heresy.

  19. Dino, you will get a variety of opinions on this. I don’t pray for forgiveness of sins, because they are already forgiven. I do confess sin. Following are links to comments on this topic from Tom Cucuzza and Jack:

    https://expreacherman.com/2012/04/03/do-lordship-salvation-folks-deny-the-resurrection-and-christs-proclamation-it-is-finished/#comment-12692

    https://expreacherman.com/2012/04/03/do-lordship-salvation-folks-deny-the-resurrection-and-christs-proclamation-it-is-finished/#comment-12694

  20. I have a question.

    Now that I am saved I have eternal life. My question is about repenting and asking for forgiveness.

    I tried to study this passage and here’s what I got. The reason why Jesus said to the church at Ephesus to repent was to rebuke them and have them change their minds, to know that something is wrong with their relationship and that they need to go back to their first love?

    Revelation 2:5
    King James Version (KJV)
    Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    And so after realizing, then they should pray and ask for forgiveness? Because 1 john is also addressed to saved people

    1 John 1:9
    King James Version (KJV)
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Is this the right way to do it?

  21. Hi Mike,

    My shot at this question.. It depends. But if we are talking about the initial stage where they accept Christ as savior and then adds something to it like they made a mental commitment to turn away from sin or to change their lifestyle… I’m afraid it wont work. It should be trusting in Jesus Christ alone to save us without having to make any mental commitment to change one’s life.

  22. Mike, unless a person has ever trusted in Christ alone as Savior, he has not received eternal life.

  23. Thank you Johninnc and Preston for your responses to my post. It is truly frustrating to hear preachers (like the street preacher I was talking to online) seemingly unable to understand the free gift of salvation. I just want them to realize the truth and stop preaching falsehood to so many. Thank you also for directing me to the “Difficult Verses” section.

  24. quick question if I may people who have trusted Christ plus anything else at all are they saved ? thanks mike

  25. Beholdason

    Great idea — we have discussed that before. Implementing the idea may be a problem. But our God is a problem solver.

    Thanks for coming up with ideas to spread the Good News Gospel world-wide.

    In Jesus Christ eternally. Jack

  26. Hey guys,

    I was just watching some videos on Youtube and thought it would be beneficial if some of the posts on here were filmed, and then posted up on Youtube.

    Not sure if any of you want to be filmed, but there are so many dodgy videos up and I know it would be valuable to discuss the difficult verses found in 1 John and James and Hebrews etc.

    There are millions of people who use Youtube who would be exposed to the errors of LS if you posted on there also.

    Just a thought.

  27. Wow… Thanks.. Your explanation does not contradict the grace of God. I just wanted to make sure I cover all my bases so that when the time comes I witness to our church councils I have something to answer and they always use this verse to imply repentance is turning from sin. I’m keeping notes of everything I learn.

  28. Dino, I don’t think you are right. I don’t think these passages are directly connected.

    First of all, the Bible NEVER uses the term “fruit of repentance.” It is “fruit worthy of repentance” or “fruit meet for repentance.” This is a critical distinction, because otherwise one might misinterpret this passage to mean that good works always accompany salvation. I think the “fruit worthy of repentance” in Luke 3:8 has to do with testimony of faith. Notice that later in this passage, the people ask John the Baptist what to do, which confirms that good works do not automatically flow from salvation.

    The “godly sorrow” spoken of in 2 Corinthians has to do with Christians, not unbelievers. This passage has nothing to do with believing unto eternal life. Unbelievers cannot muster up a “godly sorrow”, because the are ungodly. Godly sorrow, in this passage, precedes, rather than follows repentance. Therefore, if you were to force the “fruit of repentance” into this passage, repentance would be the fruit of godly sorrow, rather than godly sorrow being “the fruit of repentance.”

    We address both of these passages in our “Difficult Verses” section.

  29. Jen,

    salvation is not easy??????

    Matt 11:28-30 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    30 For my yoke is EASY, and my burden is LIGHT

    salvation is not simple?????

    2 Cor 11:3-4 – But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.

    4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    salvation is not FREE??????

    Romans 5:15-20King James Version (KJV)

    15 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the GIFT BY GRACE, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification.

    17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.

    19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many BE MADE righteous.

    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    no sinners prayer, no asking the Lord into your heart BUT simple, easy belief in the gospel. its free!

  30. Hi Johnninc,

    A follow-up on Jen’s question about fruits for repentance, I tried interpreting he verse and can you tell me if what I have is correct.

    Luke 3:8
    King James Version (KJV)

    Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    I took this verse from 2 Corinthians. from the same verse you have under difficult section

    2 Corinthians 7:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    What I got was, Godly Sorrow was the fruit of repentance.

    Am I right? to be in Godly Sorrow is to come to a point that we realize that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves and because of this, we are destined to go to an eternal hell and therefore “Repented”(changed the mind) and trusted Jesus Christ to save us? So it was like what you said.. being clear in the matter where we realize that there is nothing we can do?

  31. Jen, I am delighted that you asked. Just be forewarned that as soon as you give the LSers the proper way to interpret these verses, they will come up with some more. The problem is not that these verses trip them up. The problem is that they are trusting in Jesus as “helper” and not “Savior.”

    “Easy believism” – call it what you want, but there shouldn’t be anything “hard” about believing in Jesus. We do not teach that praying a sinner’s prayer results in salvation. Quite the contrary. We do not even recommend so called “salvation prayers.” One is saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

    One does not need to have a “godly sorrow” in order to receive the FREE GIFT of eternal life. We do not have to “soften up God” to get Him to provide for our salvation. He has already provided for our salvation by sending His only begotten Son to save whoever is willing. Nowhere does the Bible say that one must have sorrow, godly or otherwise, in order to receive eternal life.

    Since God justifies the ungodly, how might unsaved people work up a “godly sorrow”? You have probably already seen it, but if not, please look up the proper interpretation of 2 Corinthians 7:9-11 under our “Difficult Verses” section.

    Making someone “twice the child of hell” was something that Jesus ascribed to the Scribes and Pharisees. LSers usually don’t quote this verse, because it is talking about them.

  32. John, interesting you should say that, this all happened after I asked him multiple times to present his gospel. He had no time, he was just leaving, and then he commented on multiple other things in our group. He was reminded to be a man of his word, and present the gospel (He promised, promised, promised he would do that first before anything else). Of course, he kept posting and then finally got angry. Well mostly after I disagreed with his ‘gospel’ that came after he asked God for a ‘sign’ and that sign was someone knocking at the door with John MacArthur’s book…. sad. Then the vitriol when I disagreed. It’s getting more and more commonplace.

    I ask people more often to present what they think the gospel is. He was clear in the video he did later of his testimony that 1 Cor 15 was not the whole gospel.

  33. I am glad Jane had a more pleasant conversation. I had also mentioned John Piper and his ‘it takes a whole village to STAY saved”, and of course that was a false, misrepresentation, a twisting of the truth, and as he said I was a false teacher, bearing false witness, a false prophetess, etc. That he would expose me. Then he told me I was under his teaching authority 🙂

    Perilous times…

  34. I am in the middle of a conversation online in which I began by pointing out the LS teaching of Chick tracts. The response I received by the other person was that “easy believism” is praying a sinner’s prayer without having godly sorrow and making that person twice the child of hell. I have responded, pointing to the context of those phrases in 2 Corinthians 7:10 and Matthew 23:15. Would someone here comment on these phrases? Thank you.

  35. Holly, wow. It is often the most “churched-up” folks who are really threatened by the gospel.

  36. Interesting and common conversation Jane had Johninnc.
    Thanks for sharing here. A recent conversation on lordship and Calvinism) had a not so gentle man threatening to ‘expose me’ and with another person intimidating her in her email box. When she asked him not to email him again, he said this to her: (he lives in our town). After telling me he has

    don’t tell me what to do, ________
    block me if ya want
    but I’lll see you around
    count on it.
    maybe in person
    one never knows

    This man is a great supporter of King of loadship, John MacArthur.

  37. and making up a trade like ” repent of sins” for eternal life

  38. Joy, unfortunately, the mindset that one has something to trade is what is keeping so many “followers of Christ” from becoming believers in Christ.

  39. Jane,

    Thanks for your wonderful contribution to this article. A lady’s touch is always welcome!!

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  40. “Salvation is not a trade of our commitment in exchange for eternal life.” This statement is so insightful! It’s so true that so many feel the need to ‘exchange’ something in order to receive the free gift of salvation.

  41. many believed in Him
    Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him,
    Joh 8:30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
    Joh 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

    Joh 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

    Then they took up stones to throw at Him
    Joh 8:59 Joh 8:59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. ; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    still the same after some 2000 years the works for salvation (eternal life) crowd still looking to throw stones at Jesus simple plan of eternal life by simply believing in Him.
    even those who believed in Him who picked up stones i expect to see them in heaven , That is a picture of Grace

  42. Thanks John,

    Great article.

    For LSers who say to each other and babes in Christ, “You have to” whatever is simply denying the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross..

    But after all – that IS Lordship “salvation” more accurately described as Probation.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

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