By Jack Weaver
Just recently I experienced an example of a pitiful case of non-Calvinist “perseverance” while witnessing to my Audiologist. It is an awful object lesson showing an ignorance of scripture and “following the leader” to hell:
Mariella, my Audiologist, is a sweet, early 30s, young Latino lady. I pray she reads this and “changes her mind.” On my first visit several months ago I shared the Gospel and a tract.. She said, “Oh, you are a Christian, here read mine.” Her tract was titled, “The Grace That Saves.” Great Title!! Since I could not read the fine print, I took it optimistically believing the title may be a hint of Biblical contents.
When we returned home I magnified the tract. It was distributed by Fellowship Tract League. They advertise hundreds of different tracts in hundreds of languages. It sounded good until the “salvation” prayer. Very dangerous false doctrine.
The obvious errors are highlighted in bold.
Please pray this prayer or one similar to it: Dear Heavenly Father, I know I am a sinner and need your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died for my sin. [1] I am willing to turn from sin. I now [2] ask Jesus Christ to come into my heart and life as my personal Saviour. I am willing, by God’s grace, to follow and obey Christ as the Lord of my heart and life. Amen.
[3] Jesus is knocking at the door of your heart. (Revelation 3:20) [3] Will you let Him in?”
[1] The Bible NEVER tells us we must be willing to turn from sin to have eternal life. That is a lie!!
[2] The Bible NEVER says to ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart and life as your personal Saviour to have eternal life. That is a lie!!
[3] The Bible NEVER asks anyone to “let Jesus into our heart and life in order to have eternal life. That is a lie!! The heart does not have a “door.” That whole statement is a gross misrepresentation of the verse Revelation 3:20 — which is plea by Jesus, asking for renewed FELLOWSHIP and to dine with the seven last days churches listed in Revelation Chapter Three.
Two weeks later on my next visit I handed her a great booklet illustrating that Salvation is a free gift, (“The Gift,” by Dr. Richard Seymour). She promised me she would read it and make notes which we could discuss. I asked her why she felt that God’s gift of salvation by Grace required her to turn from sin in order to have eternal life. Her answer, “I must repent continually to be ready.” Sadly, we had to depart to make room for another patient.
On our next visit I questioned Mariella further. Amazingly she said that she repents continuously all day long and before she goes to sleep at night. Then she asked me in somewhat broken English, “My father wanted me to ask you if you believe in ‘once saved, always saved?'”
I answered, “Of course, Jesus is The Savior. He alone saves eternally with no works on our part!! We cannot add anything to His work on the cross.” She answered, “My father says I cannot accept your booklet because it has false doctrine and is against the Bible.”
I was flabbergasted. As we left, she said, “I must repent, repent and repent all the time.” I asked “What does repent mean to you?” She said, “Turn from my sin, be sorry for any sins and bad thoughts, etc, etc.” As we departed, I left her with this thought, “I am so sorry you are not sure of eternal life, that you must torture yourself with continually ‘repenting.’ Just remember, Jesus is The Savior. He alone SAVES!! Biblical repenting is simply changing your mind about Jesus being your Savior — and not your works.” She answered, “Yes but I must always be ‘ready’ by repenting.”
This is a pitiful example of a person believing the false doctrine of repentance and turning it into her own personal “perseverance until the end,” and a father who is teaching his daughter the direct “works” path to hell.
I found her church in the Internet. It is a Latino, Charismatic, holy-roller, “healer,” works preaching mega church in Hialeah, FL. Terrible.
Please pray for Mariella that she may read this and believe the Gospel in order to have the peace that passes all understanding by trusting that her salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Nathan, I see it the same way as Johninnc, when we do not make things right with other believers, we lose fellowship. I do think with good, trusted, believers, we can confess our struggles that they might pray with and for us. But I think that one really needs to know that the person is trustworthy. I have seen this one misused, and people hurt by gossip.
I can think of one time in particular, that this woman confessed something with the group, and one of the interesting things was, the original woman that had judged her for some fault, and not with any sort of gentle restoration (for having a somewhat foul mouth at times), and when she realized that people were speaking about her this way (she had a tendency to use the ‘b’ word in a joking way at times. So, she was ashamed, and ashamed that her son was with her, when the woman said she would likely not be hired for a certain job because of her ‘mouth’. She thought it had to do with being talkative.
As she shared this with the woman’s group in tears, I saw others rolling their eyes and whispering. I won’t say much more as I probably sinned in judging them myself angrily. But, I guess my point, I don’t believe confession to others in the general assembly is what this means.
Nathan, I see it as things you have done against someone.
Wondering what your view is on this. Is the confessing of faults to one another verse talking about revealing your own personal sins you struggle with to another person or is it talking about confessing the sins you have sinned against them?
Phil R. – Poor woman…they use James 5:16 to back up that, there are churches that have them confessing to each other. A new friend, she mentioned that’s what they have said, I think they call it ‘washing their robes’, that they are supposed to confess their sins to each other.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Mariella’s dragging around her heavy burden of sins reminds me of this woman named Rhonda in this LS influenced IFCA Bible church I USED to be in until 2000. I don’t know if it was a make or break salvation issue with her, but every so often she would request time during the Sunday service to get up in front of the congregation to confess her sins and ask for our forgiveness. We believers are only called to recognize and admit to God our sins in the course of our Christian walk, and not have to go through some legalistic exercise of getting forgiveness from the congregation. It sounded like she had been convinced by someone that a Christian MUST not only receive “vertical” forgiveness from God, but MUST also receive “horizontal” forgiveness from her congregation.
This is just one example of what LS can do in a church that may have started out free grace, but was infiltrated by LSers.
Praying for all our friends we come in contact with, that the Lord will strengthen us, teach us, embolden us to share the plain truth clearly. That as we continue to point them to Scripture that we might be patient with them as they prayerfully seek His truth over their traditions or teachings or own understanding…
I have two friends too, and I am concerned for them. We had a discussion the other day, I’ll just give first names, Leslie and Carol, and they both do not quite understand the meaning of repent/repentance. Another young man who has come out of Catholicism, James, I saw recently sadly that he too is preaching that you must ‘be sorry for our sins’ in order to be saved…
Somehow all of these above equate ‘feeling sorry for your sins’ as part of the gospel message. I do pray they have believed and somehow have become confused with the myriad of voices out there. But in talking to them, they do not seem to ‘get’ that I am not saying “Do not be sorry”, or that they “should not be sorry”. Sadly each time, it somehow becomes about their experience or my experience vs. the Word.
I am not saying one would not be sorry of course, but I am saying, PLEASE do not add that to the good news. There will be a variety of responses, but only one response matters, and that is that we believe, that our trust is in Jesus Christ alone. If we are told we must be sorry, we will inevitably ask ourselves, “Was I sorry enough? Did I really mean it?”
Then it is about us. What we did. Christ died for the ungodly. For the sinner. For the one without strength. Have they not remembered that time? We are clearly told what we can do in John 6:28-29 along with a multitude of other passages as John mentioned. Why is it so hard to accept?
Matthew, thanks for your question.
We define Lordship “salvation” as follows:
LS is the unsupportable belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to make that faith result in eternal life.
LS can be overt (one must forsake all of his sins and follow Christ in obedience and discipleship in order to be saved) or VERY SUBTLE (one’s behavior will change once he is saved). But, do not be deceived. Trying to add ANY human merit to Grace makes it no longer Grace. (Romans 11:6)
Your friend’s errant beliefs that one must both feel sorry for sin and ask Jesus to save him are not consistent with how the Bible says one receives eternal life, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Your friend can’t find where it says in the Bible that one must do more than believe in Christ for salvation, because it’s not in there! His errant definition of repentance, as well as his use of James 2:19 to demonstrate that one has to DO more than believe in order to have eternal life are pretty clear signs that he is confused.
You might ask your friend if he knows what the gospel is. It sounds like he does not have a clear understanding of it, particularly that Christ died for our sins.
As far as asking Jesus for salvation, if your friend believes, it isn’t necessary. If he doesn’t believe, than asking for salvation will not result in his receiving eternal life.
Matthew, I have prayed for your friend.
Matthew, I have prayed for you and your friend Frank. I agree with what Abe just said. I want to see your friend Frank in heaven one day too!
“he told me that for a person to be saved, they would have to feel sorry for their sins and ask Jesus to save them. would this be Lordship salvation?”
That is lordship salvation in my opinion. Because it is adding something to the free gift of salvation. It puts the focus back on me. Do I *really* feel sorry for my sins? Define *really*. Because maybe I do feel bad, but maybe I don’t feel bad enough. There would be no end to the introspective search of the wicked heart. Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be all but forgotten in the midst of such psychoanalysis.
“scripture reference that he gave was james chapter 2, saying that even the devils believe and we know that they are not saved”
You correctly pointed out that demons cannot be saved anyway, no matter what they believe. But James was quoting a fictitious debate partner in that verse about the devils believing and trembling, and the fictitious debate partner made a ridiculous point about the demons and then James called the partner a vain man in verse 20.
And James 2:14-26 is not about salvation anyway. It is about how we OUGHT to let our faith be expressed by works. But the lack of works doesn’t mean the faith is nonexistent (see Romans 4:5 for the Gospel of Jesus Christ).
So your friend Frank does not understand the Gospel, but do pray for him, and keep giving him the truth. 🙂
I have a question and a pray request. today I seen my friend (frank) and so I wanted to see if he understood the true gospel. well he told me that for a person to be saved, they would have to feel sorry for their sins and ask Jesus to save them. would this be Lordship salvation?
I did ask him to show me in the bible where it says that a person had to be sorry for their sins in order to be saved. which he replied that he doesn’t know where it is in the bible. he also said that you have to do more than believe to be saved. scripture reference that he gave was james chapter 2, saying that even the devils believe and we know that they are not saved. I tried to explain that no where in scripture does it say that Jesus Died for the sins of the devils and that it is talking about a christians works and not salvation. he did finally agree on that area, but not on just believing. so please pray that frank will believe the gospel. I want to see him in heaven one day!
We have a background commenter, Steve F., an ardent Lordship “salvationist”, who shall remain in the background. Steve F.’s most recent comment incorrectly asserts that one must “turn from sin” in order to receive eternal life. Steve bases his premise on a misinterpretation of scripture, focused on an unbiblical definition of repentance.
Following is my response:
Steve, welcome and thanks for your comments.
You started with a rhetorical question regarding how one receives eternal life. You proceeded to provide several Biblical references, interpreted them for us, and then gave the conclusion that you reached to your own rhetorical question.
So, I would like to ask you a few rhetorical questions:
How do you dismiss the 150+ verses of scripture that teach that eternal life is a free gift, received by Grace through faith in Christ? (John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Romans 6:23, and many others)?
Why would God require that we give Him something (turning from our sins) in EXCHANGE for something that HE repeatedly describes as a GIFT?
Did you know that the Bible calls turning from evil ways works?
Jonah 3:10: And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
What if you are wrong about your view of repentance? Have you ever trusted in Christ alone, and not Christ plus your works (in this case, turning from your sins)?
None of the verses that you provided use the term “repent of sins.” In fact, you will not find this phrase anywhere in the KJV Bible. It is simply not there.
A good definition of Biblical repentance is from Northland Bible Baptist Church, and is as follows:
Repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Repentance in salvation means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have and to accept God’s way of salvation. Repentance does not in any sense include a demand for a change of conduct before or after salvation. Matthew 21:32, Acts 20:21, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:8, John 3:16-18, Gal 3:10-12, Acts 16:25-31, Rom 11:29.
One of the counterfeits Satan is using today is the misuse of the word “repent”. To insist upon repentance that in any sense includes a demand for a change of conduct either toward God or man is to add an element of works or human merit to faith. Penance is payment for sin. Penitence is sorrow for sin. Works add something of self in turning from sin. But repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Nowhere does Scripture use the phrase “repent of sin” to be saved.
Steve, if you would like a good resource on each use of the word “repent” or “repentance” in the New Testament, I would recommend the following from Clear Gospel Campaign:
http://www.cleargospel.org/topics.php?t_id=27&c_id=45
Holly glad that connected with you, i can not take credit for the writing, i want to make a correction. i first posted that that came from open windows i found the devotional book today and it came from Our Daily Bread sept, oct, nov 2000
D Taylor, as an art dealer of many years, I think your story is a perfect analogy…
For so long I wondered why someone who was preaching the gospel would want to change it. I really was thinking of what purpose could they possibly have. But the answer is simple, there cannot be any purpose other than they are deceived, and do not believe in the power of the gospel, nor in the gospel at all. How can they? I have been stupefied when people have said that 1 Cor 15 does not contain the ‘entire’ gospel, or the ‘whole counsel of God’ as one person put it.
Somebody should have told Paul then, and all the apostles, for it is the gospel they believed and that they preached, and that they were saved by. Evidently they believed it was the power of God unto salvation, and they didn’t need to have “shocking messages” (Paul Washer) or take eight years to finally understand the theology of the gospel message (John MacArthur) or need a village to stay saved (John Piper) or need to really concentrate on the cross to work themselves up into the right repentance (Charles Spurgeon)…
Jane, you addressed ‘greasy grace’ and ‘repentance’ and being saved, and the gospel, the true gospel being crucial was part of the original post.
You said, “And Holly, I prefer to stay on topic, I commented with points I felt to address, you can find someone else to challenge in your scripture debate. I am done here.”
What more we speaking of Jane? (I say this in love) How important is it, for ourselves, for others to take heed to the doctrine we speak to others. If one does not know the correct definition for repent, and a pre-conceived red herring argument is stuck in someone’s head like a bad song, going round and round, you will not be able to hear what the Word of God says. Our minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Mine surely was for awhile.
By the way, any time I get to present the gospel, whether in a hostile environment, or on a totally different subject, if one has asked me, I am compelled by His great love, to share what He has done for me. I would never pass on the opportunity. I hope you are able at least to yourself, to re-read 1 Cor 15:1-11, find the gospel declared there. Find the one that all the apostles taught. If John was not written for the reason declared in John 20:31, then his was not a true testimony as it also declares several times in John, but here is one.
And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. John 19:35.
I do pray you may believe the true gospel of Grace, if you knew it, you never dare muddy the word Grace, which embodies everything HE alone has done. There is licentiousness, but we none here preach that we should sin so that grace would abound, so if you are a sister in Christ, you have falsely accused your brethren, and I pray you will see that.
Came across this (from a devotional book open windows) a few years ago thought i would pass this along
Adding To A Masterpiece
Could you improve on a masterpiece? Imagine that you are walking through the Louvre museum in Paris. As you approach the Mona Lisa by Leonardo da Vinci, would you think about taking a palette and brushes and touching up the painting? Maybe put some more color in her cheeks? Perhaps change her nose a little?
“That’s ridiculous!” you say. For nearly 500 years, the Mona Lisa has been considered one of the greatest artistic works of all time. How absurd to think we could add anything to this masterpiece! Yet that is what many people try to do with Christ masterpiece — Salvation.
They think they must improve on it with some work of their own. But that masterpiece was completed when Jesus said, “It is finished,” while hanging on the cross ( John 19:30 ). Then He proved that His work of redemption was done when He rose from the dead.
When you here that Jesus paid the price for your sin and that you do not have to do anything to merit God’s grace, Do you think it’s too good to be true? Do you think there is something you must do to earn it (Salvation)?
You cannot add anything or earn salvation! Receive God’s gift of salvation. Jesus paid it all. The masterpiece is complete.
John 6: 28,29
6:28 So then they said to him, “What must we do to accomplish the works God requires?”
6:29 Jesus replied, “This is the work God requires – to believe in the one whom he sent.”
Well said Kim! Thanks!
.
Jane,
I used to feel as incredulous as you do at the seemingly preposterous idea that good works and an avoidance of sin was possibly not required along with faith for salvation. But now I see that if those good works and the avoidance of sin ARE required, then there is no grace! And not only are good works and avoidance of sin NOT required, they MUST not be present (in our view as accompanying faith for salvation) because they CANNOT accompany faith for salvation. Our only hope for salvation is the shed blood of Christ. The shed blood of the precious Lamb of God, the perfect Lamb offered by God Himself for the sins of all of mankind, is the ONLY thing which satisfies God the Father for the remission of our sins. Though it is indeed counterintuitive to our human prideful thinking, we cannot ‘help’ God save us; we cannot ‘help’ God keep us saved; and therefore we cannot mess up our saved state with God! Since our salvation is not of ourselves, WE cannot do anything to lose it!! It must be this way, or it’s not really salvation. God doesn’t throw us a life preserver and tell us “Okay, now you can save yourself if you will only hang on and swim to safety!” For putting our trust in His Son alone, He grabs us up in his mighty arms out of our hopelessly lost state and never lets us go.
I am praying you will stop fighting God’s saving grace and put your trust solely in Christ so that you can enjoy the peace of assurance of His loving desire and ability to save you completely and forever. Only then will you be able to understand and experience the enormity of God’s love for you.
Jane, I have prayed for you as well. You might also be interested in the following post, which contains an excerpt from one of pastor Cucuzza’s recent sermons.
https://expreacherman.com/2013/09/14/notes-on-calvinism-calvinism-a-rigged-carnival-game/#comment-20368
Anytime someone uses the term “you people” you know you’re not being viewed objectively.
I don’t mean to sound whiny but the term “greasy grace” is incredibly offensive to me.
All sin is an abuse of grace.
I’ll stop here because I’m at a loss as to how I can add what’s not already been pointed out and don’t want to exacerbate the matter.
Jane, we have tried to address your points civilly, graciously, and as completely as possible. We were not “cherry picking”, just addressing those things that warranted a response. We did ignore your pejorative comparisons to other ministries, and your editorials.
You are apparently hostile to grace, so we will answer the questions you have raised from this most recent post and then will not post any further of your diatribes.
Here goes:
You said: “Then I guess according to you people, David was not saved until he repented of Bethseba huh?”
My answer: I believe David was saved prior to this.
You said: “If one does not know their a sinner in need of Savior then how can they believe.”
My answer: One needs to know he is a sinner, in need of a Savior, in order to be saved.
You said: “The Holy Spirit comes to convict. Convict of what? Sin. Jesus came to bring people to repentance of their SIN.”
My comment: The best scriptural reference to address this comes from John 16:8-11:
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
The unsaved person is guilty of his sins, because he has not believed in Christ as his Savior.
The phrase “repent of your sin” is not found ANYWHERE in the King James Bible. Has it ever occurred to that you are repeating the word of man versus quoting the word of God? You have accused us of “cherry picking” verses. But, you simply make them up!
You said: “My point was that you guys claim we no longer have to repent, so therefore I can go out and have an affair and do whatever I want cause hey afterall I am justified and forgiven right? THAT is greasy grace, abusing grace!”
My comment: We do not claim we no longer have to repent. We do claim, with complete Biblical support, that eternal life is eternal. Sin always has consequences, but loss of eternal life is not ever one of them.
Bruce has written a great article about people who, like you, are hostile to grace. It’s called “Grace Baiting.” Please see link below:
Click to access baiting.pdf
John thanks for your post.
Jane what about the parable of the soils, the Bible says in Luke
8:12 Those along the path are the ones who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
8:13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in a time of testing fall away.
8:14 As for the seed that fell among thorns, these are the ones who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the worries and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.
8:15 But as for the seed that landed on good soil, these are the ones who, after hearing the word, cling to it with an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with steadfast endurance.
all but the first group (Luke 8:12) of people are said to have believed and been saved.
The Bible when using belief never uses false with believe indicating a person in the Bible is exhibiting false belief in receiving salvation.
Then I guess according to you people, David was not saved until he repented of Bethseba huh? And yeah GREASY GRACE, if you were familiar with the term, you’d know that you believe the same type GREASY GRACE that Joyce Meyer and Joseph Prince and all those other WoF folks teach.
If one does not know their a sinner in need of Savior then how can they believe. The Holy Spirit comes to convict. Convict of what? Sin. Jesus came to bring people to repentance of their SIN. The definition of remission is a pardon and/or forgiveness. So YES that is what Luke IS explicitly saying. You guys just cherry pick verses. And FYI I NEVER once said one HAD to be in perpetual repentance to remain saved, you cherry picked what I wrote. My point was that you guys claim we no longer have to repent, so therefore I can go out and have an affair and do whatever I want cause hey afterall I am justified and forgiven right? THAT is greasy grace, abusing grace! Sadly you fail to address all my other points in there, hence your cherry picking. And just because you prefer to go by your baptist school definition of repetance, doesnt make it Truth.
And Holly, I prefer to stay on topic, I commented with points I felt to address, you can find someone else to challenge in your scripture debate. I am done here.
Its both sad and scary to think that this greasy grace mentality of doing whatever you want after being saved and no need for repentance has bleed off from the WoF preachers to the ones who claim to be evangelical.
Good bye and God bless.
Jane, we are told to “prove all things” and “hold fast to that which is good”. If people are accursed by preaching a different gospel, I would think any one of us, better be very sure that we are saying is what His Word says. If we vary one bit, we have added or taken away haven’t we?
Could you present with the Word of God alone, the necessary components of the gospel? I would like to hear what you select from the Bible when you share the gospel with others.
John,
Thanks for an excellent, well researched answer for Jane.
We should pray she reads, understands and responds positively to your comment.
Jane,
We pray you will understand the simplicity that is in Christ:
Jesus Christ is NOT a probation officer but The Savior. He saves and needs no help or assistance from us — simply by Grace alone through our faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. The free gift of salvation.
Jane, we are praying for you to believe in Jesus alone as your Savior and be absolutely and continually assured of eternal life.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jane, welcome and thank you for your comments. I will try to address each of them Biblically.
You said: “Bible repentance is not about changing your mind about what you think of Jesus, where in the bible does it say that???? It doesn’t.”
My comment: Following is a good explanation of the Biblical definition of repentance, from Northland Bible Baptist Church:
Repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Repentance in salvation means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have and to accept God’s way of salvation. Repentance does not in any sense include a demand for a change of conduct before or after salvation. Matthew 21:32, Acts 20:21, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:8, John 3:16-18, Gal 3:10-12, Acts 16:25-31, Rom 11:29.
One of the counterfeits Satan is using today is the misuse of the word “repent”. To insist upon repentance that in any sense includes a demand for a change of conduct either toward God or man is to add an element of works or human merit to faith. Penance is payment for sin. Penitence is sorrow for sin. Works add something of self in turning from sin. But repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Nowhere does Scripture use the phrase “repent of sin” to be saved.
You said: “The bible does list sins and says explicity afterwards that those who practice such things will not inherit eternal life.”
My comment: True. But, a person who has trusted Christ as Savior is no longer guilty of any sins – past, present, or future. All of his sins have been forgiven.
You said: “The bible also says to go out among the nations and preach repentance of sins.”
My comment: Not exactly. Luke 24:47: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. It says preach repentance AND the remission of sins. Not repentance of sins. Repentance here means a change of mind about Jesus and His provision for our sins through His death, burial, and resurrection. Remission of sins is the consequence.
You said: “Your teaching is very borderline greasy grace, what the WoF teach “Hey you’re under grace, you’re justified in Christ, so you can live as you please. No more repentance…nothing. Just believe and get saved! No sorrow for your sins! You’re saved!” Thats basically what you and half the folks commenting on here are saying.”
My comment: There is nothing greasy about grace! Grace is amazing. And while we SHOULD live for Christ as believers, we are under no such obligation in order to receive eternal life. Otherwise, eternal life would not be a gift – it would be a contract.
You said: “Once saved always saved, so if someone who once made a decision to follow Christ and decides 20 years down the road that they don’t wanna follow Him anymore, they’re still saved? I don’t think so. Apostacy pertains to believers who have walked away from God. Names getting blotted out of the Book of Life that Jesus refers to in Revelation, hmmm.”
My comment: One does not have to “follow Christ” in order to be saved. One need only trust in Christ as his Savior. Believers are eternally secure. Please see the following links for more on that topic:
Click to access cucuzza-the-permanence-of-salvation.pdf
http://standforthefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/the-foundation-of-eternal-security-a-breath-of-fresh-air/
You said: “The only conclusion I can come to, is you espouse to the false doctrine of obtaining spiritual perfection after you’re saved. Because the Christ I worship in the Bible forgives confessed sins. Hence if AFTER I am saved, I commit a sin, and I repent HENCE CONFESS AND TURN FROM IT I am forgiven, I do not lose my salvation NOR am I doing a “work” by repenting!”
My comment: The new nature (regenerated nature) is sinless. All sin comes from the flesh, which has not been reformed by our new birth.
You said: “You bash Calvinists, well I would consider you guys closet Calvinist, or 1 point Calvinist at best.”
My comment: We reject all five tenets of Calvinism outright.
Now, Jane, I have a question for you. Have you ever trusted in Christ ALONE as your Savior? Please see link, below, to find out how.
Click to access how-to-be-sure-you-are-going-to-heaven-with-cover.pdf
Bible repentance is not about changing your mind about what you think of Jesus, where in the bible does it say that???? It doesnt.
Perhaps her view on perpetual repentance is a bit tilted, but so is yours. The bible does list sins and says explicity afterwards that those who practice such things will not inherit eternal life. The bible also says to go out among the nations and preach repentance of sins. Your minimizing repentance is just AS damaging as her thinking she must repent and repent.
Your teaching is very borderline greasy grace, what the WoF teach “Hey you’re under grace, you’re justified in Christ, so you can live as you please. No more repentance…nothing. Just believe and get saved! No sorrow for your sins! You’re saved!” Thats basically what you and half the folks commenting on here are saying.
Once saved always saved, so if someone who once made a decision to follow Christ and decides 20 years down the road that they don’t wanna follow Him anymore, they’re still saved? I don’t think so. Apostacy pertains to believers who have walked away from
God. Names getting blotted out of the Book of Life that Jesus refers to in Revelation, hmmm.
The only conclusion I can come to, is you espouse to the false doctrine of obtaining spiritual perfection after you’re saved. Because the Christ I worship in the Bible forgives confessed sins. Hence if AFTER I am saved, I commit a sin, and I repent HENCE CONFESS AND TURN FROM IT I am forgiven, I do not lose my salvation NOR am I doing a “work” by repenting!
Repentance is not a work, IF you are repenting of sin AND if you have the right biblical view of repentance. Abiding with God, seeking God is not a work. To want to know our creator and Father more should never be considered a work, however to the extreme OSAS folks it is, or even to the greasy grace people it is.
You bash Calvinists, well I would consider you guys closet Calvinist, or 1 point Calvinist at best. Good luck.
That was a troublesome document, good spot D. Taylor
This is the trouble I see too, so many getting ‘saved’ without hearing the gospel. He shared with him afterwards how to have eternal life?
It is the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation. Some Calvinist recently shared Paul’s Damascus road experience as some sort of proof of regeneration before belief. I guess he forgot how many times Paul probably did hear the gospel proclaimed, but the one we know for sure was at the stoning of Stephen in Acts 6 and 7.
The ‘receiving Him’ and ‘asking Him into your heart’ seems to have been misconstrued and made into the gospel somehow. After somehow hears the gospel and believes, that is the ‘receiving’ (Jn. 1:12) and at the time they believe that is when He comes to ‘dwell in our hearts BY faith’ (Eph 3:17).
I have seen some good gospel presentations, like with Dr. Hank Lindstrom or Dr. Ralph (Yankee) Arnold, I believe both tell the people very explicity, that it has nothing to do with being saved, but part of learning to communicate with the one who saved them.
D. Taylor,
Thanks — John’s answer to your commentary about the web site quotes is excellent.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
d taylor, I see at least two problems with the quotes from the blog that you referenced.
First, this part:
Yesterday, Rich called me to tell me that he saw both Mervin and his wife at church last Sunday. That’s how I knew for sure that Mervin’s prayer was sincere. God was already having a real impact in his life.
My comment: This is classic “looking for changed lives” as proof of salvation – fruit inspection!
Second, regarding salvation prayers, the bottom line is this: if someone believes in Christ as his Savior, a salvation prayer is not necessary. If someone does not believe in Christ as his Savior, a salvation prayer will not help. I simply don’t see any place for a salvation prayer whatsoever.
I have seen much debate about whether or not a salvation prayer is “essential.” A better question would be whether or not a salvation prayer is ever appropriate. My personal opinion is that a salvation prayer is inappropriate.
Some will argue that one can say a prayer to “let God know what they are doing.” I don’t think this gives God enough credit. He already knows what we are doing, and has always known when we will come to the point of believing. (Please note that I do not mean that He predestines us to belief, but only that He has foreknowledge).
Others will argue that a prayer thanking God for saving us is appropriate. I agree. We should thank Him every day. But, a prayer of thanks is not a salvation prayer. It is a prayer of thanks.
Salvation prayers may have arisen from the misinterpretation of Romans 10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
If you read the subsequent verse, you will find that Romans 10:13 applies to people who have already received eternal life through faith in Christ. Romans 10:14: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
I cannot find Biblical precedent for salvation prayers, except for the pre-cross prayer of the publican. Luke 18:13: And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Lewis Sperry Chafer commented on this, as follows:
“The incident of the publican in the temple (Luke 18:13) is too often assumed to be the norm for the sinner who would be saved under grace. The setting is before the death of Christ and reflects the relationships that existed in the Jewish era.
Though the English version makes the publican to say “God be merciful to me a sinner,” he really said. God be propitiated to me the sinner. At no time, either in the Old Testament or the New, may one reach God on the ground of mere mercy as such apart from needful sacrifice. The publican asked for propitiation which was a justifiable request before the cross, but wholly unjustified now.
To ask for mercy as such is to assume that God may deal with sin apart from adequate sacrifice. To ask for propitiation is to discard what Christ has done and to ask that something more effective be provided.
Men are not saved by getting God to do something; they are saved when they dare to believe that God has done something.”
Rev Dr. Joseph Merkel – Where did you find the witness to this “supernatural conversion”. I see it nowhere in Scripture that it takes a life of sincere ‘pursuing’. Where is believing in the gospel? What is the gospel to you?
Do you realize that this message will not save anyone? Including yourself?
You have sinned Joseph, no matter what your sincerity, nor righteous attempts to pursue God, it is filthy rags in His sight. Jesus was crucified, He died for your sins, He was buried, and He rose again, just like those of us who trust in Him will do.
There is only one thing you can do, and you haven’t done it. You are believing in your own works to somehow achieve this experience of a ‘supernatural conversion’. This is typical in many religions, including the yogi’s seeking an avatar status. They will be justifying themselves before God on that day by all the ‘works’ they did in His name.
Sir, you must use the Word of God, for only His gospel has any power to save.
Please consider for your own sake, if you believe what you just stated, you will die in your sins. You must come to Him that you might have life. Believe on Him to save you. Nothing else can be added, and nothing can be taken away.
Jack, praying for Mariella’s heart to be burdened with a lack of assurance until she digs into God’s Word herself, looking for the truth of what you said….
Lord willing, may she desire to dig…
Jack what i post below (in part) is from a website blog about the conversion experience of a Jewish realtor:
But then something happened that I didn’t expect: when I showed him the prayer to receive Christ, I did not even get a chance to ask him if he would like me to lead him through it. He just started praying on his own! As he began to pray out loud, he started to cry. That’s when I knew he was making a deep connection to God.
When he finished, I shared with God’s promise of eternal life and his promise to help Mervin on his journey through this life. He looked at me and said, “I like knowing that God has forgiven all my sins and that I can have a personal relationship with Him.”
I also encouraged him to take his wife and go to Rich’s church because as they start growing in their relationship with God, their love for each other will be rekindled as well.
Yesterday, Rich called me to tell me that he saw both Mervin and his wife at church last Sunday. That’s how I knew for sure that Mervin’s prayer was sincere. God was already having a real impact in his life.
Below is a question i tried to ask under the blog post about the Jewish realtor:
(I) Came across this site and clicked on the blog link and just looking at the different topics and decided to look at the this post about the Jewish realtor. I guess my question is why use a prayer in presenting or sharing to a person about Jesus (as was used with the Jewish realtor)?
A prayer is not used in the Bible when people are told to believe in Christ for eternal life. they are simply told to believe in Christ, that He is the promised Messiah and gives eternal life to all who will believe in him for it.
Do you not take a chance in the person trusting in a prayer they are saying instead of placing the trust in Christ. I would think that if there is a prayer to pray to receive eternal life the Bible would have given a specific prayer to say. The gospel of John just simply uses believe (around 98 times) as what a person must do to receive eternal life and is the only book that make the statement that is in the verses John 20:30,31 as the only book that states it reason for being written.
John 20:30: Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
20:31: But these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
D. Taylor,
Thanks. Never heard of Ken Tucker and the Red Zone. Do you have evidence we can present?
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
jack here is a new one (in my area) that i noticed has surfaced the red zone evangelism by a person named kent tucker
Matt,
Great truth — thanks.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
D. Taylor,
You are right — and it is a shame that there are so many more false tracts than there are great Biblical ones.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Not sure what tract she has but, the chick salvation tract is another very popular misleading salvation tract
Endless life with God does not require endless repenting!
I’ve added Mariella to my prayers.
God bless.
Jack, I’ve been praying for her and told my wife about her. I’ve thought about this matter several times today.
To all who were concerned and prayed for Mariella,
Thanks for praying for her. We returned from my appointment a short while ago. When we were through with our technical hearing aid adjustments — Mariella headed for the door. I stopped her (kindly) and said, “I want to say one more thing to you about your faith.” She looked just a tad shocked. She must have presumed the case was closed.
I simply said, “Please remember, Jesus Christ is the only Savior. He is not a probation officer. If you trust Him as your Savior, you are NOT on probation. You do not need to “repent” or ask for forgiveness continuously. Jesus is THE SAVIOR!”
She interrupted me and said, “Jesus is my Lord and Savior, my Redeemer.” She turned and walked out of her office. No further conversation.
We do pray she will think about that, will be convicted by the Holy Spirit — and not be satisfied in her ignorance of Scripture.
We sure appreciate your thinking about her and for your prayers.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, I sure hope and pray Mariella will understand the Gospel as I doubt if most people would care as much as you do. I must say that the repenting of sins for salvation is in almost every church that I know of and usually they add on a lot more. How do you overcome this as it seems impossible as that what they teach everyone. Thanks to websites like this at least someone seeking the truth can find it.
Dr Merkel you make Christ out like He is fleeing from people who are seeking salvation not really wanting to give them eternal life and only after a lengthy chasing of Christ are they given salvation.
Nowhere is that found in the Bible
Hello Everyone
It just breaks my heart when I hear stories like Mariella and Dr. Merkel. They do not believe that Jesus can save to the utmost. This ‘continuously pursuing Christ” and/or “to be ready” they will never find rest in Christ. The saddest part is we will see more of this “false gospel”.
Trust in Jesus
1 Cor 15 1-4
Levi
Dr. Merkel, I humbly submit that “a life of sincerely and continuously pursuing Christ, [to] receive supernatural conversion” is nothing short of works salvation. Before dismissing my comment, please ask yourself if you’re ABSOLUTELY SURE that you’re right and we’re wrong.
When I pray for my lost loved ones, I don’t pray that they’ll “pursue Christ” (not that this wouldn’t be wonderful) so much as I pray that they will CHANGE THEIR MINDS ABOUT WHO JESUS IS AND PUT THEIR FAITH IN HIM. More simply put, their “pursuit” of Christ is meaningless (from an eternal perspective) if they don’t take Jesus at His word and put their faith in Him.
John, FryingPan and Jim F,
Thanks for your comments..
I have a “final” visit with Mariella tomorrow with no expectations of conversation about her Faith, except by the Grace of God.
I am trying to learn Spanish for:
“Jesus is the Savior, not a probation officer, He offers eternal life freely, not a life of probation.”
I translated that phrase and no way this old mind will remember it. So I will copy it onto my PDA and ask her to read it “en Espanol.”
Thanks for your cogent comments and prayers.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Dr. Merkel
Thanks for visiting.
Your comment surprises me – coming from, I presume, a man of letters.
You make the simplicity in Christ a terrible lifelong impossible pursuit — without ever making a decision to believe in Jesus for eternal life (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-5)
Eternal Life is the free gift (Romans 6:23). The Bible NEVER tells anyone to gain eternal life by spending his life pursuing Christ (“repenting” in Mariella’s case) and waiting for a supernatural conversion (in your case). Absolutely ridiculous.
We are told to take Jesus at His word and make our decision by faith alone to believe/trust Jesus alone for eternal life.
In John 3:15, Jesus Himself, speaking about Himself said very plainly:
Please. for the sake of lost souls, don’t preach your personal “experiences” for salvation — only God’s Word!!! His Word NEVER fails!!
Please read, Eternal Life For You:
https://expreacherman.com/eternal-life-for-you/
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, I have joined you in praying for Mariella and her father.
Yes, we can see examples every day of the devil’s tactic or calling truth falsehood and calling falsehood truth. He did it in the garden of Eden and it continues to this day. The is now that he has many that are now doing his work for him.
It is up to us as believe to stand for the truth no matter the accusation in response.
Jim F
Wow. I’m flabbergasted too Jack. So tragic. Another on long list of those who need our prayers . . . It’s so frustrating to try to communicate to someone who is making Jesus their “helper” and NOT their savior only to then have to get past the barrier they put up by claiming WE’RE the one with false doctrine.
Jack, posts like this one REALLY help shed light on how incredibly insidious some of these false doctrines and lies about the gospel can be. Every time we defend the free grace gospel (read: the gospel) we become targets for lies from the enemy designed to accuse us of being soft on sin, not “truly dedicated” believers, and on and on it goes.
When I first discovered this blog back in February I was so focused on trying to understand doctrine that I didn’t always “get” everyone’s righteous indignation at the lies being propagated by so many ministries out there. Tom Cucuzza is right. This Lordship “Salvation” stuff really IS everywhere! You can’t get away from it. Now I’m a lot more “comfortable” in sharing in said indignation. It really is outrageous.
Thanks Jack, I have also seen people trying to keep the law for salvation. The obvious problem is that no one can. There is only condemnation under the law. It is a trick of the devil to make us think we can do anything to merit eternal salvation. I’m praying that she will consider God’s Word long enough to see the light.
Jim F
The idea is through a life of sincerely and continuously pursuing Christ, you will receive supernatural conversion.
That’s what happened to me, and it happened naturally, not some forced concentrated effort.
Rev;
Dr. Joseph Merkel
In Christ;
Rev, Dr. Joseph Merkel