By Jack Weaver
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8
A dear friend, Holly Garcia, wanted my opinion and forwarded to me a note and link to Paul Washer’s video talk (with text) sometime during 2009, “10 Indictments of the Church.” I will not include the link since we do not advertise apostate preachers.
I read Washer’s “sermon,” which was addressed to preachers and teachers in his audience. I found only very few points with which I could agree but I disagreed with all of his solutions. Overall he is teaching (in a very delightful yet threatening and powerful manner) his same old false message. He is a doctrinaire Calvinist and a preacher of a false repentance, “turn from sin Lordship ‘salvation'” message. His emphasis was about the problem of carnality of the church. Yes, many Christians are carnal but Washer’s message of putting believers under the law of behavior is not Biblical, but deceitful and will not cure Christian carnality. Such a message of probationary “salvation” denies God’s free Grace Salvation and will also turn off an unbeliever.
I have excerpted just a few of many passages which indicate some idea of his atrocious errors. I will indent excerpts from Washer and my comment below will be in red.
Washer is speaking about preachers of whom he approves:
- “They are reading Spurgeon and Whitefield. They are still listening to Ravenhill and Martin Lloyd-Jones and Tozer and Wesley and it is a great, incredible movement.”
Details about each of these men Washer recommends are:
- Spurgeon, Lordship Salvationist, Calvinist and a “turn-from-sin for salvation” preacher.
- Whitefield, Calvinist.
- Ravenhill an Arminian, (no eternal security),
- Martin Lloyd-Jones, Calvinist and Presbyterian,
- Tozer, Deeper Life teacher – mystic and Lordship “Salvationist” before it was called that.
- Wesley -Arminian — lose your “salvation” or a “no eternal security” preacher — founder of Methodism.
Any Gospel preacher worthy of the title would not praise and recommend these teachers.
Washer speaking of regeneration:
- “We have traded regeneration for decisionism.”
Calvinists like Washer believe that there are some folks “chosen or elected” by God from the beginning to be saved, to believe in Christ and as such are regenerated before believing in Christ, therefore enabling them to believe. The rest of the world is thereby ignored and is consigned to their deserved condemnation in hell. That is False Reformed/Calvinist doctrine. The Truth is that a lost person (unbeliever) must make a personal decision to trust Jesus Christ alone as his/her Savior (salvation does not come by osmosis). God will not force either belief or faith upon anyone. Salvation is God’s Gift to be taken, only by Grace alone through Faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Washer – on his own theology:
- “Although I am leaning more toward, I guess I call myself a five point Spurgeonist, I want you to know this.”
Spurgeon is the darling of those who would put all Christians under the Law of works or behavior rather than God’s Grace. So now in order for you to see why Paul Washer patterns his false message after his idol, here is the actual text of one of Spurgeon’s sermons titled: Turn or Burn – Spurgeon.
Washer on “fruit”:
- “[S]alvation is by faith alone. It is a work of God. It is a grace upon grace upon grace. But the evidence of conversion is not just your examination of your sincerity at the moment of your conversion. It is the on going fruit in your life. It is the ongoing fruit in your life.”
Washer, like all Lordship “salvationists”, sets himself up as the behavioral judge of how much and for how long “fruit” is sufficient or necessary to prove to him (Washer), your pastor or yourself, that you really are a believer in Christ. Fruit may be an evidence that a person is a believer but absolutely does not determine or prove to anyone whether or not one is a believer in Jesus Christ. Catholics, Buddhists, Mormons and many other false religions may demand and produce “good works” (which some call “fruit”) but these folks, by their teachings, are not believers in Jesus Christ alone as their Savior.
So let us conclude that “Fruit Inspectors” cannot determine if one is a believer in Christ or not. Therefore, I thank God that He KNOWS that I have trusted Jesus Christ alone as my Savior — and He keeps me as His Possession and safe eternally!!!
Scripture asserts that God does not need our “fruit” to prove to Him that we are believers, nor do we. God knows and we know whether or not we have trusted Christ as Savior. (1 John 5:13)
Here are other articles we have published at ExPreacherMan.com about Paul Washer:
Paul Washer Redefines the Plan of Salvation, Obliterating Assurance of Salvation << Click
Paul Washer, Lordship Salvation and Repentance<< Click
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Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Holly, I think if 2 Corinthians 11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Paul Washer… over the years I have been blessed to see some come out of his false teaching and I pray more will test his doctrine against Scripture. So many see this sincere, tearful man who seems to be so full of desire to please God and never ‘hear’ what he says. Praying for more ears to hear the truth vs. the wolf’s words.
Note to Daniel:
I chose not to post your last comment.
It was WAY too long, and full of heretical teaching.
Anyone who denies eternal security of the believer is denying the Christian Faith.
If you have read any of our articles or comments, you should know that we would vehemently object to the sermon that you posted.
Curtis, I can’t really tell if he is acting, but I can tell he’s a false teacher.
this is my own personal opinion and will get you kicked out of most places I recently did give a listen to a couple of Paul Washers sermons and had to turn him off after a short time.
is it just me or does he seam fake ? and the crocodile tears ? . he appears to be an actor ?
I understand if you don’t want to post this
Anders, some teach that God does not draw all men. But He does, and He has from the beginning. He told people things before they happened, so that they might believe. Prophecy upon prophecy fulfilled by just Christ being lifted up on the cross, and just as John 12:32 says:
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
I really believe all means all in these verses. And when He says He has made Himself manifest to all men, I see such goodness, but men will reject the truth, even knowing He is God, will not glorify Him as God.
That is so terribly sad, but we need to keep telling people the truth. God SO loved the world ❤
Thank you all for the answers and the welcome. I absolutely agree with you that it is God that draws us to him.
amen to what john and holly said
Hi Anders. God drew all men when He lifted up Christ on the cross. (Jn 12:32; Jn 3:14-16; John 8:28-29). This is why we should be determined to preach Christ and HIM crucified and not with wisdom of men’s words (1 Cor 2:1-5)
We have the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:7-11). He calls men by the gospel (2 Thess 2:14), and He gave that same gospel power, the power of God unto salvation by the way (Rom 1:16, 1 Cor 1:18). The Word itself has power (Heb 4:12) and is able to make one wise unto salvation (2 Tim 3:15).
God tells us to pray for all men for a reason, He has been a ransom for all, and desires all to be saved (1 Tim 2:1-6), because He has been the propitiation for the whole world (1 John 2:2) and has tasted death for every man (Heb 2:9). The Heavens and the earth declare His glory to the whole earth (Ps 19) and we know He has made Himself manifest to all men (Rom 1:18-25).
Anders, welcome and thanks for your question.
God draws all men to Christ. Believing is up to us.
Following Jesus is not the same as believing in Him as Savior.
I hope that helps.
Hey there. What do you mean by “make up a decision and follow Christ” Isn’t it God that calls us to believe?
Hope you will answer my question.
James2,
Another way that some view the forgiveness issue is thus:
Under the old covenant of the law, one was required to forgive to be forgiven. Remember, Jesus, while on Earth and before His death, still taught people to observe Moses law (example: Luke 5:14 leper cleansed told by Jesus to follow Moses law regarding testimony).
But under the new covenant of grace (undeserved favor), BECAUSE we are 100% forgiven, we ought to likewise show grace by forgiving others (Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13) thereby bestowing the wrongdoer undeserved favor.
James2 wrote
“I cannot forgive” “You see that is my problem”
that is your choice James and comes with consequences on many levels but does not affect your standing before God Trusting Jesus as (personal) Savior. but you DO NOT have Gods approval .
also a prayer does not save you , your faith does not save you we are saved (justified) by Grace Through Faith . The object of our faith (Jesus) saves us .
James 2/ John
First, I 100% agree with checking to see if James understood the gospel by his comment.
Second – James, if you have believed the gospel, you are sealed unto the day of redemption (Eph 1:13-14 and eph 4:30)
Once you have believed the gospel (alone) you are forgiven ALL your trespasses (past present and future) See Acts 13:39 and Col 2:13-14.
Third – When you understand this, that you have been forgiven everything, no matter what – it makes it easier to forgive others.
However, you forgiving others in NOT automatic.
don’t let that verse in Matt scare you to the point of losing your salvation (if you have it – the gospel alone). The bible being the word of God CANNOT contradict itself. It CANT read that ALL your sins re forgiven in one place THEN say “God wont forgive you in others”.
to keep it short, there are 2 types of forgiveness IMO. Eternal (ALL sins are forgiven to the believer) and one that I term temporal; for fellowship (also see the Lords prayer given to already saved disciples–forgive us our trespasses)
Don’t read given over to our tormentors as hell. For example, the saved man at Corinth who was sleeping with his step mother, he was disfellowshiped; also that “satan would have access to his flesh”- delivered to the tormentors so to speak (but still saved).
There are consequences for sin to the believer; hell is NEVER one of them. The principle of the parable – forgive others for you have been forgiven a “greater debt”; 100% of your sins (if you have believed the gospel). I believe, with every sin, there will be some kind of consequence.
I first pray that you have believed the gospel alone and are forgiven ALL. Second I pray that you would see you have been forgiven everything (I mean everything you WILL do wrong as well) and that you could eventually forgive this person of their sin against you (for many, this is hard to do).
my two cents.
James2, in your first comment, you directed us to a website so that we could avail ourselves of “the full gospel.”
In light of that, I am a little leery of your follow-up comment, in which you say you have questions, but then only pose one.
My concern is that you will follow up with one after another tenet of Lordship “salvation” in order to corrupt the minds of the readers of this website.
Before I address your most recent comment, I will let you know that this website is an oasis of grace, and not a marketplace of religious ideas.
You said that you “prayed the prayer of salvation and got baptised.” One is not saved by either, or the combination of both of these acts. One is saved by grace, through faith in Christ.
I would ask you this:
Have you ever believed in Jesus as your Savior? Have you ever believed that His death, burial, and resurrection were sufficient to take away all of your sins (past, present, and future) and to thus guarantee you eternal life?
If so, you have eternal life that can never be lost or forfeited.
We should forgive others, in light of the forgiveness that we have been given as believers in Christ. But, we do not have to forgive others in order to gain, keep, or prove that we have, eternal life. If we did, that would be works for salvation.
The Bible is explicitly clear that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
For a believer, refusing to forgive others may result in loss of eternal rewards and loss of intimate fellowship and blessing in this lifetime.
I appreciate you guys responding to my questions and in a very nice way. But I do have more questions if you don’t mind. I have someone in my life that I cannot forgive no matter how hard I try I have hatred for that person. When I was younger I know I was saved I prayed the prayer of salvation and got Baptised. But then I see things like Matthew 6:14 and 15 that says if I do not forgive my Heavenly Father will not forgive me and Matthew 18:21-35 that says if I don’t forgive, my Heavenly Father will put all my sin debt back on my accout and make me pay all that I had been forgiven. Jesus then says “My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” You see that is my problem this person does not know that I hate them in my heart I can act ok around them but my heart cries out that I hate them. What can i do? When Jesus told the Pharisees that they looked good on the outside but on the inside was dead mens bones is exactly how I feel. I don’t think the Pharisees went to heaven because they were hypocrites and I am one too. What can I do please help!
I think if people could start with the A – Abide in the Vine, Abide in the Word and build on that, they have already chosen the good part that won’t be taken from them.
38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus’ feet, and heard his word. 40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42 but one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. Luke 10:38-42
James2,
The Gospel is Jesus.
Jesus is the Saviour of the world.
Faith is beholding of the truth about Jesus as the Saviour of the world.
Believers are such because they accept the testimony of God concerning His Son. (1 Jn 5).
Some men behold this truth and some do not. When we behold this truth, God declares us “not guilty”!
Like Abraham, this trust in what God HAS done at the cross is imputed to us as righteousness.
Repenting is simply changing your mind from unbelief to belief.
This is faith.
It is not faith which saves. It is God by His grace who saves.
Faith is a noun. We possess it. We don’t DO it.
Us accepting this reality (faith) sees righteousness imputed to us.
When you speak of being saved by repenting I interpret this as:
God isn’t our Saviour. Sure, Jesus died for my sins but accepting this truth ain’t enough. I’ve gotta DO something. I’ve gotta stop sinning (the wrong meaning of Repentance) and try hard to be religious and do lots of good works.
The above won’t save you James. Jesus IS the Saviour.
By beholding this reality, God’s Holy Spirit does an incredible work in our lives if we keep looking at that Cross, stop focusing on how good we are being to help God.
He is able to change us as we keep beholding His salvation, His goodness and His mercy.
Stop focusing on you. Stop focusing on your efforts.
We cannot DO anything more than what HAS been done.
Jesus paid it ALL.
“As far as the East is from the West, so far has he removed our transgressions from us” – Psalm 103:3.
Burn your Lordship Probation books.
and no, I don’t think God’s grace means I should get naughty and sin as much as I please.
I sin without having to think about it.
Rest in God’s grace. He’s done it all.
🙂
James2 welcome
why is the word repent not used in the gospel of John ? yet the principal is there we go from unbelieving to believing ( changed mind ) to be saved that Jesus death burial and resurrection . his shed blood paid my sin debt passed present and future and His FINISHED work is why i am going to heaven when i die .
I am pleased you bring up the tenses of salvation James they are so very important. there is also spiritual salvation and physical salvation .
James before we go further would like to know if you really are interested what the bible says ? or are you looking to tell the bible what the bible says?
Be not wise in your own conceits.
Rom 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
James 2, I meant to answer when you were addressing ‘repent’ and said, “why did He just not say ‘believe and be saved'”?
We know very well He did say that very thing hundreds of times, sans the word repent entirely in the book of John. If one has believed upon Him as their Savior, then they have repented from something, whether it is thinking being a Son of Abraham will save them, or being good will get them entrance into heaven, or in believing in other gods, or in just being in unbelief. Whatever it is they change their mind about when they believe, they have heard the gospel of their salvation and have been given eternal life. The word ‘repent’ can be used or not, it is a matter of whether we explain that people must place their trust in Christ and Him crucified vs. any other thing.
Hi James2.
We are saved eternally, sanctified positionally and perfected forever. There are all sorts of things believers are saved from after they have believed unto eternal life. I ‘think’ I may know where you are coming from, correct me if I’m wrong. In this lifetime, we’re being saved from the power of sin in our lives (if we’re cooperating to be sanctified) and eventually we’ll be saved from the presence of sin in our bodies.
But to understand the gospel is to know what God’s testimony is of His Son. He is God the Messiah (Lord-kyrios) come in the flesh, to offer His life in our place for our sin. Sin causes death, He was our substitute when He died on the cross for our sin. Buried and risen again in 3 days, as He said He would, He proved that He was God and the Messiah that the prophets had prophesied of. We believe as He said, He is the only way. We also believe He did it all.
Now that He as done this, we should live for Him, that is what working our your salvation with fear and trembling means. We try to live in obedience to what He’s asked (His commands), to love one another so that others will know we are His, to love Him, to abide in Him and abide in His Word, because whatever is good that is worked through us, will be by Him, otherwise, we’ll just be finishing in the flesh.
He tells the Philippians (chapter 2) why to continue in obedience:
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15 that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16 holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
James2 (I added the “2”, because we already have a James), welcome and thanks for your comment.
Do we have to repent to be saved? Yes. In an eternal salvation context, “repent” means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have to God’s way of salvation in Jesus Christ alone. See our Statement of Faith for more on repentance.
We are justified and positionally sanctified once and for all at the moment of belief in Christ.
One does not have to “work out” his eternal life. If he did, it would no longer be by grace, through faith. This has to do with the Christian walk, and has no bearing on gaining, keeping, or proving that we have, eternal life.
We know the full gospel. It is that Christ (God in the flesh – God our Savior) died for our sins (in complete payment, leaving us nothing left to pay), was buried, and was raised from the dead (proving that His Payment for our sins was completely acceptable to God).
Can we be saved without repentance? Why when John the Baptist died did Jesus say Matthew 4:17 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Why did He not say just beleive and be saved? Do you know that after Justification is our working out our salvation or Sanctification and then Glorification? These are the 3 tenses of our salvation. When Paul said to go work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling he was talking to brothers in Christ. go listen at (link removed by administrator)if you want the whole Gospel.
I really liked what BeholdaSon said there too Curtis M. There was a time where if I had to depend on any feelings of any kind, I would have been without hope. I was beyond feeling, numb.
I depend on His promises, His Word, is true. What He said, He will perform it, He will do it, and I believe Him, and am thankful for His Word.
Amen beholdason
“I do not trust in my breast beating nor trembling before God to confirm that I truly really am a saved person. ”
I like that thought , have not thunk about it that way
Phil… sometimes I just read here and thank God for the wisdom and Biblical answers I see. Since Sue and Braam posted, I saw kind, well-reasoned Biblical wisdom and truth. I pray they will really come to know and understand His Amazing Grace and His great love for all of us.
Amen beholdason!
So far I’ve read Preston’s thorough explanation of James, I hope Sue will read it and pray about it. Curtis, amen, justified, justified, justified…. may people understand, and put their faith UPON Jesus Christ, who He is, and what He is done. May they believe upon Him as their Savior and stop trying to finish the work.
I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 1:12-13
Preston – If I have your permission, I’d like to use your post that starts with the crux of the problem. Just expanding a little with His Word and the gospel for a blog post. If it is o.k. with you, please contact me at redeemingmoments.com. You can comment on any post with your email, I won’t publish the post with an email. Thanks ❤
Suez – I know you personally. And you know very well, or you should anyways, that we are not ‘greasy grace’ and I am going to publicly rebuke you for saying that. God’s grace should never be demeaned by those kinds of terms. You know where to find me if you need to talk, but this is completely inappropriate. You need to learn to rightly divide Scriptures by studying with God’s approval in mind. You need to have some trembling for His Word.
For all those things hath mine hand made,
and all those things have been, saith the Lord:
but to this man will I look,
even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit,
and trembleth at my word. Isaiah 66:2
Judgment without mercy is spoken to sinning believers that are showing no mercy, they will be judged in this lifetime, and they will be chastened if they do not clean up their act. We know too that rewards can be lost, and works we have not done by Him will be burnt up.
However, you misunderstand James 2, and it’s high time you learned what it means. I won’t elaborate further because I haven’t read all the other posts to see if they’ve once again explained it to you as they have here on prior occasions, (and likely today also). You should know by know that this speaks to justification before men (or our testimony before others). The Word tells us clearly Abraham was justified before he was circumcised, some 24 years I believe it was. And Abraham was circumcised before he offered up Isaac, so this justification does not speak to God but men. Abraham was already justified (found righteous) before God.
Somehow you are leaning on men’s wisdom and proof texts which are nothing more than pretext and vain janglings and philosophy of men. Stop it Sue. Does that sound harsh? You’re hurting yourself and you are going about to deceive others. You like Peter and Barnabas are playing the hypocrite, and are not being straightforward about the truth of the gospel. I imagine some reading this may be thinking I’m not as soft as I can be. Sue, you know very well, you’ve gone round and round and round and blown about by every wind of doctrine, and it will either keep you in bondage, or if you don’t know Him, it will keep you LOST. I don’t want that.
What we do after we have been given that free gift of eternal life is very important. We want to walk worthy. But what you are somehow suggesting is that any of us here think that we want to be licentious or teaching such? Shame on you!
You tremble? Good! As you say, so do the demons. How long will you beat your chest in fear not knowing if you are saved? You need to spend time in His Word, so that you don’t mislead people by your own misunderstandings, nor malign a sister or brother in Christ, or worse, become an enemy of the gospel of Christ because you have back-loaded the gospel. I pray for you Sue, don’t be deceived. Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.
In the love of Jesus Christ, and for the love of His truth, and so that the truth of the gospel might remain. Holly
Braam, I know everyone has told you this, but no, heaven forbid we should sin so that grace should abound. We love the Lord, and want to honor and glorify Him. We also know that only by His gospel, unhindered and unfettered by law (works) can save. Let’s distinguish between the good news, and the walk of a believer who wants to please their Saviour.
Suez,
How do you cope when you realize that you sin each day?
Do you sin every day?
Is your sin different that those whom you refer to here:
“Many profess Christ, but in their heart of hearts they are not saved, and are believing many lies…”
In Matthew 7 we see professing believers whom the Lord rejects.
Were they “greasy grace” people?
On the contrary. They didn’t understand His grace at all!
They were, perhaps like you, trusting in their works to save them and not solely the Lord Jesus alone.
-You don’t know me-
I love the Lord and I sin every.single.day. I am no better or worse than people who trust in Jesus but sin in ways that you deem to be unacceptable for a Child of God.
I do not trust in my breast beating nor trembling before God to confirm that I truly really am a saved person. Do you feel proud that you tremble before God in such a holy manner?
I am trusting in the simple grace of God (which you abhorrently refer to as “greasy”).
Just to clarify for you.
Grace isn’t cheap and greasy.
It cost God his only begotten Son.
For us, it’s a free gift. Grace costs us absolutely nothing.
NOTHING.
We simply must believe/trust/accept/receive it.
The Gospel according to the Scriptures offends you, doesn’t it?
Suez, do we need to DO anything to validate our faith before God?
Or do we simply need to trust Him?
I truly hope you see that all we must do is trust in Christ to save us.
Any works we do AFTER we have done this simply impacts on our rewards in heaven.
I thought I might say to those here who are against Free Grace who say we are “easy or greasy believism” and point to James chap 2 to prove that faith must prove itself with good works in order to eternally save us, and if our good works and changed lives don’t measure up that it is no saving faith at all.
Let me just say to you that our faith does NOT save us: we are saved by God’s grace THROUGH our faith or trust in him. Faith simply connects us to what Christ has done to save us, taking away all our our sins, past, present, and future, and in turn we receive all of Christ’s righteousness imputed to us. 2 Cor 5:21. God offers us the gift of complete forgiveness and the promise of eternal life as a gift. Our salvation is an accomplished work of Christ alone finished at the cross and certified by his resurrection. Faith is simply the act of accepting this gift of complete forgiveness and eternal life that can never be take away. The moment we accept that gift we are God’s Sons and Daughters and God sees us in the perfection of his Son and from that moment we are eternally His and never to be lost.
If you say to me, “where are your good works that must accompany your faith in order to be saved?” and you point to James chap. 2. And my answer to you would be, look to the righteousness and perfection of my Savior who has credited or imputed all his goodness and righteousness to me. For without that, my own efforts to live the Christian life would never be enough for God to accept me. Sure, God does want us to live changed lives, but the good works we should do are a matter of rewards in Heaven; they do not determine whether we are saved or not. And we should live in love and gratitude to God for saving us, and sadly there are saved people whose lives are not changed that should be. But this does not change God’s terms for salvation, and that is eternal salvation is only by the grace of Christ finished saving work on our behalf plus nothing else, and not by our good works or changed lives afterwards.
So to our critics whether they are believe in this Lordship Salvation by faith plus works, I say our salvation, our eternal destiny has already been determined based completely on our one time faith acceptance of Christ’s finished saving work at Calvary.
Suez
I would like to know were you got the term “greasy grace” from ? what scripture reference did you get that from or did you learn it from another (hear say )?
Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Joh 18:34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Joh 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
suez wrote :
“I am like the man in the bible, who beats my hands upon my heart and says, Oh, God have mercy upon me a sinner!!!!!!!”
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified justified justified justified justified justified justified
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They knew Jesus as Lord but not as savior
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
what is the will of the Father ? Suez ???
a paper on James 2 for you.
James chapter 2 – faith without works is dead
Always remember – the bible CANNOT contradict itself.
First, we need some verses that say we are saved without works.
Eph 2:8-9 – For by grace are ye SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast
Rom 3:27 – Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of WORKS? NAY: but by the law of faith
– We see the answer to justification by works—-NAY.
Rom 4:5 – But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
Rom 4:6 – Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness WITHOUT WORKS
Titus 3:5 – NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Rom 11:6 – And if by grace, then is it NO MORE OF WORKS: otherwise grace is NO MORE grace. But if it be of works, then it is NO MORE grace: otherwise work is no more work.
James chapter2.
Faith without works is dead. This is a “TRUE” statement. Dead does NOT mean “unsaved” it means “inactive/useless”.
Notice verse 14 – what doth it profit….
1. It profits the believer nothing (Judgment seat of Christ)
2. It obviously profits the hungry person nothing as well.
Faith without works PROFITS nothing. Again, salvation is without works (see above)
VERSE 14 Can faith save him? The question is “save him from what?
– Its not from hell as James is written to believers. (James 1:2 – brethren)
So what are they being saved from? JUDGMENT (see verse 13). Faith will NOT save a believer from judgment. There are 2 other forms of judgment mentioned in the bible.
1. The chastening hand of God. God will discipline His own. (Heb 12:5-6)
2. The Judgment seat of Christ where our WORKS are tested. (1 Cor 3:10-15)
VERSE 18 – before I start – we have to realize who is speaking…..IT IS NOT JAMES. Seriously!!!! James has created a fictional character that begins to speak…sort of like me telling you a joke….one guy said to the other….I HAVE JUST CREATED 2 FICTIONAL MEN.
How do we know this? verse 18 starts with, “ye a MAN may say”.
– James didn’t say – verily I tell you
– James didn’t say – I say unto thee
James creates a fictional man (ye a MAN may say). It is THIS MAN that is now talking. James actually calls the man VAIN in verse 20. I will substitute BOB for MAN to show clarity.
Yea, BOB (a man) may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain BOB (man), that faith without works is dead
YES – IT IS HUMAN VAINITY THAT THINKS WE HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER GOD FOR SALVATION —–the bible is clear-salvation is a FREE GIFT to anyone who believes the simple gospel message.
VERSE 21 – Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
– one question – justified before who? It is NOT God.
– Rom 4:1-2 – What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but NOT before God
– WORKS justifies us before MAN – 1 Samuel – Man looketh on the outward but God knoweth the heart.
VERSE 22 – Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made PERFECT
– Remember – Jesus ministry – He said to his disciples many times “ye of LITTLE faith”….while telling the gentile centurion “I have seen no GREATER faith than this”
– From this we know that there are different levels of faith. WORKS bring faith to perfection – notice the word,” PERFECT”.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the MAN OF GOD may be PERFECT, thoroughly furnished unto all good works (2 Tim 3:16-17)
– NOTICE “the man of God” (ALREADY SAVED) may be PERFECT unto all good works
– THIS is the crux of the passage in James; exhorting believers to do good works.
– This is NOT saying that any flesh can be perfect. It is saying we are prepared UNTO all good works. This is confirmed in Titus 3:8. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God MIGHT be careful to maintain GOOD WORKS. These things are good and PROFITABLE unto men.
Hope this helped explain “faith without works is dead”. It IS a true statement. Faith that does not work is “useless/inactive”. It doesn’t PROFIT anything. It is NOT saying that works are necessary FOR SALVATION as that would contradict soooooo many passages of scripture. FAITH ALONE in the gospel of Jesus saves from hell, but, without works, that “saving faith” is UNPROFITABLE it is “USELESS”. It will NOT produce anything.
Suez, grace is not “greasy”. Grace is amazing.
We have tried to answer your comments lots of times before.
God’s grace is not a theory. We have thoroughly explained the passage in James that you have quoted under our “Difficult Verses” section.
I will pray for you Suez, but I won’t be publishing any more of your comments at ExPreacherMan for now.
Welcome Braam
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
I believe by faith, through grace we are saved….but…what do you do with scriptures like this? Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
{{Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
{{{Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. }} I’m sorry, I just don’t see your greasy grace theory, there are to many scriptures that say otherwise. YES, we are saved through grace, but what you do with that free gift after it was given, can be dangerous. Many profess Christ, but in their heart of hearts they are not saved, and are believing many lies…”even the devils believe and tremble”, I don’t see your greasy grace people trembling! 😦 I for one tremble before the Lord, because I know he is the judge. He knows my heart even if I don’t, I am like the man in the bible, who beats my hands upon my heart and says, Oh, God have mercy upon me a sinner!!!!!!!
Which is the crux of the problem from the “religious”.
believe means “to put confidence in; to trust”.
Religion gets people to trust—
1. the law
2. sacraments
3. good works
4. church affiliation
5. THEMSELVES.
How many “professing Christians” are actually trusting (believing) in Jesus for their salvation? unfortunately it is very few. Most seem to be trusting in how good they are. Why? because that is what is being preached in the pulpits today and it “feeds” the sinful ego.
What a Christian SHOULD do is documented in every Pauline epistle. What many fail to realize is that ALL of those writings are to ALREADY SAVED people; telling them what they SHOULD be doing.
Paul never once changed the gospel to get them to behave/perform better.
Braam, welcome and thanks for your comment.
It is God’s will that Christians be transformed by a renewing of their minds, as opposed to being conformed to this world (Romans 12:2). But, our salvation is not conditional on this.
It is not God’s will that we continue to sin so that grace may abound. But, again, our salvation does not depend on our faithfulness.
Is everyone going to heaven? No. Only those who have trusted in Christ ALONE as savior.
So what are YOU saying? Are we to live like we used to live before we accepted Christ as savior ? Should I continue in my sin under the “cloak” of grace? Then we can argue that no one is ever going to hell and everyone lives like they want, hell I might as well start killing people, sodomising, etc.! How am I changed then? Is everyone going to heaven then? Why do we need grace and salvation if our lives are not changed by it, bearing the fruit of which we are rooted in(Jesus Christ)?
Matt, it’s good to hear from you.
We SHOULD serve God out of love and gratitude – like you said, those are much better motives than fear.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Darla,
Those who understand and embrace free grace are motivated to praise and serve God out of love (Ephesians 1:6-7; Luke 7:47; 1 John 4:19) and not out of dread fear of going to hell.
If good works don’t save you, then lack of good works don’t damn you. Otherwise, salvation is by works and Jesus death on the cross was insufficient (John 19:30; Hebrews 9:26).
Biblical free grace theology truth protects against legalism (working to earn salvation), Galatianism (working to keep your salvation), and antinomianism (grace is a license or encouragement to sin).
He or she who is forgiven much, typically loves much (Luke 7:47).
God bless and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Preston, I agree with you on both points.
Good day,
I think there are saved people in many denominations. I know several methodists that believe in eternal security; as well as salvation by grace, through faith alone.
When Jesus promised to lose nothing and that nothing will be plucked out of Jesus’ or the Fathers hand, they believed Jesus meant it.
I also think sanctification happens at the moment one believes the gospel.
KJV1611
Acts 26:18 – To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which ARE SANCTIFIED by faith that is in me
“are sanctified” is past tense; already done.
just my two cents.
Darla, I won’t give you a stern rebuke – just a gentle presentation of the good news (gospel).
Jesus Christ (God in the flesh, God our Savior) died for our sins (in complete payment – leaving us nothing to do or pay), He was buried, and He was raised from the dead, proving that his payment for our sins was acceptable to God.
He offers us eternal life as a gift, with no cost or obligation to us.
All we can do as lost sinners is to receive Jesus by faith.
Now, a couple of thoughts:
Wesleyan theology is not Biblical. Weslyanism, or Methodism, or whatever names we give religions have no power to save.
The emphasis on eternal security is a part of the gospel. Eternal life is eternal.
I’m sorry you find our emphasis on grace and eternal security troubling.
We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Christ did not die for us so that we could try to keep ourselves saved.
Anticipating stern rebukes, I will say that I come from a family where Methodism goes back several generations. I did not realize that as a follower of the biblically based Wesleyan theology, I was a heretic, and this knowledge did not come from reading this blog and comments. I discovered hostility to “holiness teachings” when I moved to an area in TN that is steeped in Old Landmarkism; these teachings and emphasis on eternal security has impaired the ethics of the people. Many Christians live ensnared in (enslaved to?) sin. It alarms and grieves me. What I cannot understand is that one is held morally responsible before salvation, but not morally responsible after salvation. A sinner has a greater measure of moral responsibility than a Christ follower? Moral responsibility does not end with faith. Faith begins the lifelong process of real, spiritual, obedient maturation. Hmm…sounds like what you identify as Lordship Salvation. Paul would call it sanctification. (Rom. 6, Col. 3:1-10)
Abe,
Thanks for your astute analysis of the essence and subtle dangers of of LS.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
LS is a bridge to Rome. That is the only way to see it. The “reformers” didn’t reform much. They just moved to “catholic-lite”. They softened a few catholic positions, but they carried LS out with them. The “reformers” were all catholics, so that should not come as a shock. If the root is bad, the branches are also bad.
The LS crowd always ends up with the pope, sooner or later. Rick Warren and Russel Moore, who are both LS, just went to the vatican to discuss marriage. Warren praised the new pope on twitter, as did John Piper. So, the LS crowd always ends up at the pope’s robe.
Paul Washer, the reformed/calivinstic LS preacher of doom, is also just one step away from the pope’s robe. Paul Washer is “heartcry ministries”, which works in Brazil with FIEL and Martin Bucer Seminary:
{{ Thanks Abe.. Preferring not to expose those false preacher’s teaching and according to our policy, Administrators have removed those Links }}
Both FIEL and Martin Bucer Seminary are vatican-lovers, and just see the love of one of their leaders, Thomas Schirrmacher, as he adores the pope:
The pope always dresses in white at these photoshoots, and they put the others in dark suits, to make the pope look extra white and holy and above the rest of mankind.
LS is a road to Rome. Someone might say, “well Paul Washer exposes Rome”. So did the “reformers” to a degree. But they held to LS, which is just catholicism with different wording. Paul Washer, the catholic-lite man.
Phil Sprague, one has to know he is a sinner in need of a Savior in order to be saved. There are many people who know they are sinners and need Jesus to be their Savior, but will only trust in Him as their helper. Thus, I think a better definition of repentance in salvation would be:
From Northland Bible Baptist Church:
Repentance in salvation means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have and to accept God’s way of salvation.
And, I know you didn’t say this, but I wanted to make clear that while confession of sins is mentioned in Matthew 3, that confession of sins is not a requirement for salvation.
I don’t agree with your point about the “fruit” in Matthew 3 and Luke 3 being the “fruit of the Spirit.” The “fruit of the Spirit” is a byproduct of walking in the Spirit for believers. While it is true that unbelievers cannot walk in the Spirit, it is true that some believers don’t walk in the Spirit.
It think this long explanation from Clear Gospel may help clarify:
In view of this, what is the “fruit” meet for repentance in Matthew 3:6? Unfortunately, too many Christians hammer a figure of speech into some preconceived notion, such as Paul’s reference to the “fruit of the Spirit” in Galatians 5:22-23 or Ephesians 5:9, both of which depict good works and godly character (“love, joy, peace, patience, kindness” . . . etc.). But to impose this interpretation of the word “fruit” in Matthew 3:5-9 would be to contravene the very point of the passage. It is not our good works or our religion that saves us. It is our Redeemer. Fruit, quite simply, is whatever the context suggests. And what would be the fruit of repentance in this case?
In Genesis, each plant, and each animal species, was to produce offspring “after its own kind.” Seed begets seed of the same kind! Apple trees don’t produce fig trees, they produce apple trees.
If you want to know the doctrine that a church teaches, don’t ask to read the doctrinal statement. It may be gathering dust! Meet several members of the congregation who have been there for at least three years. Ask them what they believe about certain topics of theology. These men and women are the real fruit of the pastor’s labors! And by them, you will know what he really believes. Their emphasis will be that which he has emphasized. Their ignorance on certain topics is simply a reflection of their pastor’s failure to address those topics with clarity and accuracy. Trees beget fruit after their own kind!
And what was the fruit of the Pharisees whom Jesus addressed above? What does Scripture teach us? “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.” (Matthew 23:15) Their fruit was to proclaim salvation by the works of the law to their disciples, to root their disciples in that doctrine that they became more a child of hell then their teachers! This was the “fruit” of the Pharisees. The term “fruit” is a figure of speech, and does not have a fixed meaning. As with any metaphor or figure of speech, its meaning is determined by its context. And to look to Paul’s words in Galatians 5:22-23 or Ephesians 5:9 for the meaning of the figure of speech “fruit” in this dialoge in the Gospel of Matthew is just plain nonsense.
The fruit of the Pharisees and Sadducees was the seed(s) of false doctrine that they planted, and the converts that sprung up from those seeds.
When I meet believers who are unclear on the gospel, and they tell me they have a very good Bible preaching pastor, and a solid doctrinal statement, but they are confused on the message of the gospel, and the doctrines thereof, I need not see the doctrinal statement, or meet their pastor. I have seen the fruit of his preaching in his disciples. This tells me more about their church than I could ever learn from aprinted doctrinal statement, or a face-to-face meeting with their pastor!
The fruit can only be produced by a believer! It is the fruit of the Spirit. When John the Baptist asked the Pharisees to show fruits meet for repentance in Matthew 3, they could not show anything because they would not confess that they were sinners. If you look closely in Matthew 3, you will see that those who were being baptized were confessing their sins. They needed the Savior! The Pharisee relied on their self righteousness. No need for a Savior with them. Thus no fruit meet for repentance. Repentance is this: “I am a sinner and I need Jesus to be my Savior”.
It’s the first article on http://www.redeemingmoments.com, Jim Floyd’s post on Paul Washer. Sorry I wasn’t more specific. People can go to Jim’s link above.
Holly,
Could not find it. Please give us your reblogged link so we may follow and comment. Thanks.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Reblogged…
Jim Floyd has begun a series on Paul Washer’s false teaching. Please find link to Part 1 below:
http://standforthefaith.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/the-gospel-according-to-paul-washer-pt1-the-gospels-power-and-message/
Thank you for reading it Jack. Honestly? It is very difficult for me to write on Washer of all people. He is always so condemning, even reading or listening gets me seeing more and more of his errors, and sometimes I do not know when to stop or if I have said too much. It’s why I’m trying to do it in parts. So many are bewitched by that man.
Holly,
Yours is a great article on Washer. Very revealing. Thanks.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
I love that verse too… They haven’t figured that out. Jack, I used your quote above for my blog regarding Washer’s ‘favorite teachers’, and was listening to another Calvinist interview him, besides the Bible he said, Pilgrim’s Progress was his ‘favorite’ book. Seems to be a favorite among most works based Lordship teachers.
Pingback: Paul Washer the Fruit Inspector | Redeemingmoments
Thanks John,
I love that verse — and Tom illustrated the meaning perfectly.
Yes, “none other” includes us, our church, our parents, etc. NONE OTHER!!! Very accurate.
That “none other” includes any of our works, visible or invisible, intentional or unintentional.
Eternally Secure in Jesus alone, Jack
Jack, thanks for pointing back to the source of our salvation – Jesus Christ – our Savior!
I was listening to a Tom Cucuzza sermon this morning and he discussed Acts 4:12:
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Tom’s point was that the “none other” includes us, our church, our parents, etc. None other.
Sean,
Thanks for visiting and for that wonderful Scripture. The KJV is much more clear, however:
We are not sure of your intent with this verse but — aren’t you thrilled to know — that IF you have trusted Christ alone as your Savior (without the addition or promise of your works), you are secure for all eternity? Please understand that James is speaking to secure believers who have trusted Jesus Christ and he is encouraging them to show their good works — not to be saved but because they are saved!!!
And aren’t you also excited to know that this verse is absolutely NOT the Lord saying to you, “I must see good works to certify and secure your faith”? A believer’s eternity is secured by his one time decision to trust in Jesus Christ as Saviot, which is by grace through faith alone — NO works required!!! (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Think about THAT!!
ONLY by our faith in in Jesus Christ and NOT by our works are we saved:
Take God’s Word (not man’s words), Believe on Jesus Christ alone for eternal life.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS.
To all our readers:
We have written a concise and handy explanation of LS, called “Lordship ‘salvation’ Defined.”
It appears at the top Header of every page for easy reference and linking to your friends who need to understand clearly the problems with LS.
The link is:
https://expreacherman.com/%E2%99%A6-lordship-salvation-defined/
By ExPreacherMan.com Administrators.
Good point J.
I think I may have missed this part of Washer’s statements:
“[S]alvation is by faith alone. It is a work of God. It is a grace upon grace upon grace. But the evidence of conversion is not just your examination of your sincerity at the moment of your conversion. It is the on going fruit in your life. It is the ongoing fruit in your life.”
I spent lots of years trying to “examine my sincerity at the time of my conversion.” I really thought I had been sincere in my commitment to Christ and my willingness to turn from sin at the moment of my “conversion.” I knew I couldn’t “dig a little deeper” and EVER make a more sincere commitment.
About three years ago, I realized that by examining my sincerity at the time of my “conversion”, I was still focusing on me. I hadn’t trusted Christ. I was trying to trust in my commitment.
“Examining one’s sincerity” at the time of conversion is almost certainly a concept associated with Lordship “salvation” – also known as “commitment salvation” or “bi-lateral contract salvation.”
“Examining one’s sincerity” at the time of conversion is almost certainly a concept associated with examining the quality of one’s works to determine if those works are sufficient to buy that person eternal life.
Sue, you are so right, “One always needs to be reminded of his mercy and grace.
I think believers will always be under attack, it’s a spiritual battle for sure… Those preachers must not have read the Old Testament, besides many of the prophets, David got depressed and discouraged as we know, but out of it came some beautiful Psalms. Job was certainly depressed, but with friends like Elihu, Bildad and Zophar who needs enemies? 🙂 Sounds like whoever those preachers are, I’d listen to another 🙂
Jesus is acquainted with all our sorrows. We need our full armor on each day, and the Word pretty much covers it all. It’s good to put it on, thinking on each piece and what it means to us as believers.
In some areas we certainly see foolish arguments, and yet, I am so blessed that those before us contended for the faith once delivered. If I had to trust in the arm of my flesh I’d be done. God bless you ❤
Sue, it is discouraging when there are disputes and dissensions among believers.
However, many of the disputes and dissensions we see within the so-called “body of Christ” have been due to attacks on the gospel, and defense of the gospel. We are warned throughout scripture that these attacks will come. Following is an early example:
Acts 15:1-2:
[1] And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
[2] When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
This is the first recorded incidence of Lordship “salvation.” These “certain men” taught that Christ alone could not save. They taught that Christ PLUS circumcision saved.
Note that the term “certain men” is different than the term “brethren.” These “certain men” do not appear to have been considered brothers in Christ.
Holly, I agree with you.
We can never know whether or not someone is saved. If someone’s words reflect that they hold Lordship “salvation” beliefs, we should assume they are not saved and preach the gospel to them. It is possible that they believed at one time, but it is evident that they don’t believe the gospel now.
For carnal believers, the Word of God will sanctify them IF they cooperate with the Holy Spirit and apply the Word to their lives. As sad as it is, there are some believers who choose not to walk in the Spirit for extended periods of time, preferring carnality. With such people, we need to exhort them to walk in a manner befitting their position in Christ, as well as emphasize the judgment seat of Christ, at which our work will be revealed.
Amen, Holly. I agree with you!! Thanks for your words of encouragement. I needed them, even though I already knew them. One always needs to be reminded of his mercy and grace. I have been under attack lately, and have been discouraged and depressed. Of course I have heard preachers say, if you’re a christian, you should never get depressed! I have been very discouraged at how I see the body of Christ at war with each other lately. It is very sad. Everyone seems to believe their own way, and then, are right fighters, to prove their points…I am so glad Jesus loves me and I can trust in him to get me through this life. I don’t have to trust in the arm of my flesh!! All praise to him!! 🙂 sue
Suez,
The reason it gets confusing I believe is that so many teachers, preachers, authors, etc. have corrupted minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.
They confuse and blend teachings for how we ought to walk once we are saved, and add those good works to the act of believing alone. A lost sinner, without strength, ungodly, is incapable of any good works. Like the blind man in John 9, he was asked if he believed, and He responded that he did, and then he worshipped Jesus.
They put the cart before the horse, and try to stack the deck and tell others what they MUST do in order to be saved. Or they load the cart on the back end and tell people they must not be saved if their behavior doesn’t reflect the things a believer SHOULD do in their walk with Him. And in the meantime, they keep people from walking in His grace, and coerce them to ‘finish in the flesh’. We need to walk in His Spirit. Once we are His, we SHOULD be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8)
But, we all sin, and no sin is acceptable in His sight. Praise God if we believed, He has delivered us from this body of death. Like Paul said in Romans 7, our flesh still serves the law of sin, but our mind, the law of God.
So the remedy to people is this I believe:
1. If a believer thinks someone has not believed the gospel, then they should have their speech seasoned with grace and salt, and preach the gospel, the power of God unto salvation.
2. If a believer thinks someone is not maturing, and walking carnally, then they should preach the Word, for God’s Word is truth and will sanctify them.
The enemy though is the accuser of the brethren, and I believe too many these days, are either witting or unwitting accomplices, accusing others daily of not being saved. It is nothing we have done, it is by grace we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ’s work on the cross, not in any works we can do. Just some of my thoughts on the subject here.
(Suez62 said = But sometimes the comments I read here, gets confusing. Salvation is a wonderful most precious gift, and very simple. But sometimes, people make it so very hard!!! Thanks)
be sure you are reading free grace comments, lordship salvation people post here sometimes (on a limited platform) also, so you may be reading where someone from lordship has posted.
Suez62,
You said, “But, I try to live a Holy Life, because I love him.”
That sentiment is mine as well. It is my belief that free grace theology leads to this. We do right because we love Him. It is not hard to love Him because we know that we are secure in Him and that our salvation is not based on our performance before or after conversion.
Many who subscribe to Lordship views live under fear and frustration because they think that they have to prove they are saved by their works otherwise salvation including faith might not have been given to them. These types may tolerate a sin once or twice but God forbid if you shown a pattern. Patterns of sin mean to them that one might still be unsaved.
Jim F
OK
Suez, I don’t know why you are confused by our comments. They are very clear.
Hi again. You said, “My comment: If you mean that you thought one must be willing to turn from sin in order to receive eternal life, the Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that eternal life is a gift, received by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.” *No that is not what I meant at all. I said, “But, I try to live a Holy Life, because I love him.” I fully know nothing I can do can buy my salvation, it is a free gift. But,because I love him, and want to please him, and don’t want to hurt him, I try to live as he would want me to live, period. Of coarse, I fall short many, many times. But, I pray for forgiveness, and he is faithful and just to forgive my sins, and cleanse me from all unrighteousness! That is how I believe, and I trust him, which I believe is of the up-most importance in our relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. So, if this is how you believe, then I guess we are of the same mind, and in unity on that…:-) But sometimes the comments I read here, gets confusing. Salvation is a wonderful most precious gift, and very simple. But sometimes, people make it so very hard!!! Thanks
suez62 when you sin you confess your sins 1John 1:9 that is what a believer should do in the area of their daily life, not for salvation.
Suez, thanks for your comments.
You said: “So you are saying if we are Born Again, we just continue to sin, and it’s OK, because we are saved???”
My comment: No one here said that. More importantly, the Bible says it’s not OK to continue to sin.
Romans 6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
But, sin in the life of a believer will never jeopardize his eternal life.
You said: “I always thought, if we came to Jesus, we repent and turn away from our sins, to the best of our ability.”
My comment: If you mean that you thought one must be willing to turn from sin in order to receive eternal life, the Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that eternal life is a gift, received by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Repentance in salvation does not mean turning away from sin. Repentance in salvation means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have and to accept God’s way of salvation.
Let me give you an example. If someone thinks he must turn from sin in order to receive God’s free gift of eternal life, he must repent. He must accept it as a gift, or not at all.
Conversely, Lordship “salvation” is the unsupportable belief that the performance of works, the promise of works, or the evidence of works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to make that faith result in eternal life.
OK, I am very confused in all of this from both sides. So you are saying if we are Born Again, we just continue to sin, and it’s OK, because we are saved??? It makes no difference? I always thought, if we came to Jesus, we repent and turn away from our sins, to the best of our ability. Then if we sin, we repent. I am not getting all of this, sorry. And I never listened to this Paul guy. But you’re still confusing me…sorry. I am not into Lordship salvation, but you are confusing me with your view also. 😦 Please explain. I know Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my trust in him, knowing I am but a filthy sinner, but without his shed blood for me. I cannot save myself, by any method, only by coming to him at the cross, and believing what he did upon that cross. His blood has washed my sins away. But, I try to live a Holy Life, because I love him. I am weak as a flesh woman, but if I know I have sinned, I repent and tell him I am sorry, and please forgive me. What am I missing????
Reblogged this on Redeemingmoments and commented:
There are many good comments underneath this message from some respected teachers, when you have time, please read.
F Lankus,
Thanks!! You are correct — what a terrible, repeated oversight error.
Armenians are a group of people principally from Armenia.
Whereas, Arminians are folks following the teaching of Jacobus Arminius, who taught that one could never be sure of their salvation and was always in danger of losing Eternal Life in Jesus (an oxymoron at best).
We appreciate your keen observation.
We will edit it immediately.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
dear ,
the term is Arminian, not Armenian. thanks
Adrian,
Welcome— FYI we do not include links to folks who supposedly explain Lordship Salvation who, themselves, are preachers of Lordship Salvation.
We have many articles on LS which we have been publishing for years. We understand completely.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
To understand truly the argument about Lordship Salvation you should go here: {link removed by Administrator}
Whoops! I guess I forgot to click on the button asking to be notified of follow-up comments. Bruce, Pearl, I had no idea you’d responded till just now. Thanks!
This was in the summer of 2012. I really didn’t watch Paul Washer all that much, but I seem to recall his Youtube channel is called “I’ll Be Honest If You’ll Be Honest” or something like that.
But I watched enough of Paul Washer to basically get the feeling, “Oh, I get it. Most of us are all phoneys–we’re not really saved. None of us live up to the standard. Guilt and fear. Guilt and fear.”
Apparently being a glutton for punishment and not even realizing it, I watched a video of a pastor of a “like minded” (like Washer’s mind, that is) church where Washer’s a frequent guest.
So this guy’s talking to a group of fellow believers and reading “viewer mail” or whatever. (I’m not going to give the title of the video for obvious reasons.) I will say it was about Hebrews 6 and 10 . . . The two letters were from self-professed “back sliders.”
In short, this guy basically went totally BANANAS, practically SCREAMING at the camera, asking (rhetorically) how he was supposed to offer these folks any sort of hope or encouragement because they chose sin over what Jesus did for them. Then, at the very end of his rant he sort of calmed down, and tagged on something along the lines of, “But Jesus did say, ‘Anyone who comes to me I will in no wise cast out.'”
That’s what I meant about it almost being comical. And that’s what I meant by (in some ways at least), that Paul Washer (indirectly) did a much bigger number on me than Ray Comfort could ever hope to.
Fortunately I’d had enough teaching in the past (a memorable episode of The Hal Lindsey Report, that I’d watched about a year earlier comes to mind, where Hal taught about eternal security and how some folks misinterpret Hebrews chapter 6) that I wasn’t totally taken in by this stuff.
But the churning feeling I got in my gut when this guy went totally bonkers, and because I was spiritually confused enough to let it affect me? I imagine that’s the same feeling one gets when they lose control of their motor vehicle and drive off a cliff.
Alana wrote on 10/23/12:
“Even though on the inside I knew I was saved my mind began playing games on me and when I started examining my life all I could see was where I wasn’t perfect and thought maybe they are right.”
That’s pretty much EXACTLY what coming across the propaganda of Lordship Salvation did to me several years ago before I was delivered from it. This blog, with The Lord’s help, was the most significant agency in delivering me from that bondage.
Another captive set free . . . and free indeed.
Let me guess: incessant screaming/pleading while shedding crocodile tears? Ugh! I’m so glad I didn’t get caught up by his high-pitched, whiney assaults against my tender soul. The countless opportunities certainly presented themselves since so many of my blogging acquaintances were posting him right and left.
Just walk on and don’t look back.
Fryingpan9:
Thanks for the warning about Paul Washer, and yes, we know all about him at Expreacherman.com. The following article is one example. It details the assurance-crushing teaching of Paul Washer:
https://expreacherman.com/2012/08/08/paul-washer-redefines-the-plan-of-salvation-obliterating-assurance-of-salvation/
I didn’t mention Paul Washer in another thread on this blog that dealt with Lordship Salvation because it mainly deals with The Berean Call and Ray Comfort. But last summer, when I was going through what I now realize was some serious confusion brought on by LS and my (then) inability to really understand (let alone repudiate and reject) it, I came across some Youtube videos by Paul Washer and even some of the staff of his church and boy oh boy let me tell you is that guy a heavy hitter when it comes to the false doctrine and teaching of LS.
In some ways those guys messed me up FAR more than Ray Comfort could ever hope to. But the good news is that one of the videos I watched was so extreme that it was almost comical and I was able to bring myself back to reason and made a decision to stop watching them.
I’ll elaborate if anyone’s interested.
Abe, for some reason, it seems I run into a lot of pastors 🙂 I never know who they are, they generally tell me after we don’t meet eye to eye on some Scriptures and we end up contending, then they pull out their credentials, usually time saved, theological degrees, church fathers studied, and so forth… My friends tease me about the amount of blocks I get from pastors.
The Lord truly has been good to give me a love for His Word, I have a lot to learn, but I can recognize sound speech, and I definitely know when someone isn’t following 2 Tim 2:23-26… Generally those who don’t, I’ll find later, their doctrine is worth noting and avoiding 🙂
Holly, wow, that pastor is indeed into every wind of doctrine to blow down the road. The Lord did you a favor by having them not trying to convince you of anything anymore.
John and Abe, I know I should not be amazed, but I confess, it still am. Seems like an awful lot of pastors, one came down on me very condescendingly regarding “the Message” (supposed bible-not capitalizing) and another regarding Rick Warren (think I shared here.)
The new pastor my last church hired years ago has been blown about by every wind of doctrine, from quoting Brennan Manning, Henri Nouwen, Tim Keller, Eugene Peterson, even Paul Yonggi Cho. Recently I heard he has identified himself as a neo-Calvinist. And it doesn’t dawn on the elders that they might need a new pastor…. I guess not, as one of them is Wayne Grudem, (who probably got him to settle on Calvinism) the other has given his nationwide recommendation of “the Message”. I can only thank the Lord He is my Savior, as this breaks my heart.
I wouldn’t want to be them on that day. That pastor from FB blocked me when he wouldn’t stop, but any pastor who loves the Word, when asked by someone, Preach the whole gospel right now on my page, would say “Thank You Lord” and they would share the good news… Yes, definitely there are plenty of false teachers out there unfortunately…but we knew it would be… Just thankful for His Word and for those who love it and love His appearing.
Holly, that is sad to see that a so-called “pastor” is warning people to avoid the true Gospel. Such is the reality of what is called “Christendom” in all generations. There are some true teachers out there, and there are plenty of false teachers out there.
Holly, it is amazing how offensive the Gospel can be to people who teach false gospels. There has been at least one shadow website developed for the sole purpose of refuting a Grace-oriented article on this site. Most often, the most virulent attacks against Grace come from professing Christians.
Thank you John, I will share, and you too Jack, thank you and God bless you all always.
I have already shared from the cleargospel.org on Facebook, I went from 0 to 90 posts it seemed in minutes… It wasn’t very pleasant with one “pastor” who told me to “run away” from this clear gospel.org, basically calling the teaching antinomian heresy , I was unable to get him to answer the question on what the gospel was, but when I asked him to preach the “whole gospel”, he said, “The whole gospel means that we are to “judge righteous judgment” and that we are to show our faith by our works.”
Anyways, it never quite ceases to fail to amaze me somewhat, preach the gospel and you will meet with resistance. Preach a works gospel, and people will put up your quotes all over FB, with your name larger than your words. And your words more lauded than Gods. Funny the irony.
I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth, for Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name. Psalm 138:2
Oh David, so happy you shared that, and God bless your real birthday today. At the end of Ez 36:27, especially poignant this portion is to me…
“Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.”
How true that has been, but how great to have Him search me, He truly is meek and lowly in heart, so lovingkind…. I am thankful He commands His lovingkindness in the daytime, sure need it…
Holly, forgive me for adding one thing, but I appreciate your simply beautiful conversion account. By the way, today is my 34th spiritual birthday! Thank You Jesus! I also knew very little about Him at the time I trusted Him. Something Robert Murray McCheyne pointed out many years ago backs up what you said about coming to know ourselves better after we know Him. He pointed out part of what Israel’s own conversion to Christ would look like when they finally will come to Christ, and it is described in Ezekiel 36:26-27, THEN v.31 that says, “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them….Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.”
Holly, please feel free to use any of what I posted.
You believed in Christ as a child, which is completely Biblical (Matthew 19:14). How wonderful! I had to unlearn the garbage that religion taught me about repentance in order to have childlike faith. Also wonderful.
Holly,
No worry, I had no thought that you were referring to turning from sin as the meaning of repentance.
John gave a wonderful comprehensive analysis of the word. The only thing I could add would be, to reemphasize that in the NT, repentance simply means “a change of mind.”
Since there is so much confusion and deliberate obfuscation of the word repent, (of course egged on by the Paul Washers of the world), we should mentally replace the word “repent” with the true meaning, “change of mind.” That is not changing God’s Word but simply interpreting the Scripture with “words easy to be understood.”
In Jesus eternally, Jack
Thanks John, if it is o.k. with you, I’d like to copy and paste what you shared to a Women’s Bible study group I started online. (private group).
I have been ridiculed for my conversion (as well as having my assurance undermined) as I couldn’t possibly understand what repentance meant, so I could not have been saved. I believed. I believed in who He was, and I knew that I needed Him in my life. Even back then. It wasn’t until later in life that I began to understand what “their” kind of repentance meant, as they describe it as godly sorrow, or as really being sorry for your sins…
How do we know until we begin to know HIM? The more we get to know Him, I believe the more we see who we were, and what He has done.
All I know is that He is Who He says He is. And as I learn more about Him, I realize the depth of His great love. Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it.
Thanks Holly. I have read the Cocoris work on repentance, as well as the others that you mentioned.
I believe that Ron Shea’s explanations are the best I have read. There is a summary version of pp. 16-17 of “The Gospel” booklet:
http://www.cleargospel.org/booklet.php?b_id=3&i_id=38&s=2
As well as a full discussion of each use in the NT:
http://www.cleargospel.org/topics.php?t_id=27
Some of the best explanations of repentance are also some of the shortest.
From ExPreacherman: “..repent means a change of mind — from any idea of religion that man may have, to an acceptance of God’s way of salvation in Jesus Christ alone. ”
From Northland Bible Baptist Church: “Repentance in salvation means a change of mind from any idea of religion that man may have and to accept God’s way of salvation.”
From J. O. Hosler: “Salvation repentance is not turning from sin to Christ, but rather a turning to Christ with one’s sins.”
From Clear Gospel Campaign: “If faith is the hand that accepts salvation through Jesus Christ, repentance is the hand that rejects salvation by any other means.”
John, I have read G. Michael Cocoris on Repentance, don’t know if you have or not, I think it can be had on pdf now too for free. I have several of Ron Shea’s booklets on my shelf:) from Charlie Bing’s site I believe, I ordered several with some other things including “Legalism is lethal”, by the other Chay, Fred, awhile ago, and Charlie’s “Clear gospel”.
Thank you for sharing that link, I agree, and think it explains well, what so many miss in trying to doctor up the gospel.
Only faith in Jesus work alone will do…
Jack, I did not come back for awhile, what a great turnout this was, lots of great. I am not talking about turning from sin when I speak on turning to God, so maybe a little confused still, you would not offend.
So the last thing you mentioned is that, “Turning to God is not repentance, but the result of repentance…”
I guess I always kind of saw it as one fluid act, repentance and turning to God being the same. Since “believe” is all we see in the book of John, then in a couple of verses; like as in the one you mentioned, Acts 20:21 (repentance toward God), or in Acts 26:20 repent and “turn to God”. Belief is not always mentioned with repentance we know, but that is basically all I meant in turning to God when I mentioned Proverbs 1:23 as being repentance (change of mind, turning). Elsewise, how we would we turn to God without a change of mind?
I really don’t know if that is two separate acts or not in those usages, or if I’m making sense again 🙂
I also think on Heb 6:1 that someone else mentioned, that belief on Him is turning away from dead works and toward God alone, faith in Christ alone.
The only reason I’m responding is that I want to make sure, you didn’t think I thought that repentance was turning from sin, but a turning to God? Or possibly that is not correct?
Thank you, David and JimF, for jumping in when you did otherwise Anna’s question would’ve been left dangling for too long. I was blessed.
Anna,
Wow. I thought for sure Washer’s saying that salvation takes a lifetime would be enough to convince you that something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
But, since you ask, regeneration happened the moment I believed that Jesus Christ took my sins upon Himself and died in my place.
Anna,
One thing we know for sure is that regeneration does not precede faith. For many Lordship proponents and Calvinists it would have to in order for their position to make sense.
Regeneration is simply the new birth that takes place the moment we believe. It is not something that happens first thus enabling us to believe or repent.
Our idea regarding regeneration matters not, since it is not our ideas that is the standard, but God’s Word. Jesus said, “He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (Jn.12:48) He has already told us God’s will that must be done to be saved: “And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” How could our commitment add anything to His perfect work? I know myself far too well to place any hope whatsoever in my own commitment to save me. Also, we can simply believe and rest in Christ’s perfect work for us and His promise based on it, rather than our commitment to follow Him, which is a whole other matter only to be considered after salvation. (Eph.2:8-10)I apologize, Pearl, for jumping in, since all these things have already been said much better than I can say them by others, I just wanted to add my 1.998 cents worth! God Bless you all.
Pearl: “even before the new-birth, a person still dead in his sins must desire to be a sold-out slave to Christ (combining belief with discipleship), and simultaneously cease from sinning (turn from sins).”
So what is your idea about regeneration?
What a relief! Turns out I don’t have to listen to his feigned tears after all, since I found the quote here on the blog! I knew Jack had nailed him on this long ago:
https://expreacherman.com/2011/03/24/paul-washer-lordship-salvation-and-repentance/
Anna,
Bing’s article which Bruce posted is quite sufficient in explaining why fruit inspection, whether of ourselves or another, should not be relied upon to determine whether one is saved or not.
As simply as I can define Lordship Salvation (aka Lordship Probation), its foundation rests entirely on the false premise that one gains salvation by repenting of his/her sins and pledging a full-blown commitment to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Think about that: even before the new-birth, a person still dead in his sins must desire to be a sold-out slave to Christ (combining belief with discipleship), and simultaneously cease from sinning (turn from sins). There can be only one conclusion drawn from this version of a works-based gospel, that obtaining salvation is a life-long process (I’m almost certain I’ve heard Washer affirm this very thing, though I’d have to endure sifting through his dramatically shrill sermons to confirm it).
Hello Anna, thanks for stopping by today.
Each of your questions has been answered extensively on many articles and discussions at the Expreacherman.com site. I invite you to utilize the search bar to check them out.
I’m going to refer you to a couple of excellent articles by Dr. Charlie Bing, author of a comprehensive book entitled, “Lordship Salvation.” He has a fine grace ministry called “GraceLife Ministries” (see the link to the right). See especially his “GraceNotes.”
On John 15, see, http://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes.asp?id=54
I also recommend Dr. Bing’s GraceNotes # 28:
Can Good Works Prove Salvation? no. 28 – Dr. Charlie Bing
Dr. Charlie Bing:
There is every reason to think that those who have believed in Jesus Christ as Savior and are consequently born into God’s family will experience a changed life to some degree. Some would say that this changed life is evidenced by good works which proves they are saved. If that is true, then the converse is true: if there are no good works, then there is no salvation. In this view, good works (sometimes called “fruit” or evidence of a changed life) prove or disprove one’s eternal salvation.
Some passages are used to contend that works can prove or disprove one’s eternal salvation. Probably the most common are James 2:14-26, John 15:6, and Matthew 7:15-20. But James is writing to Christians about the usefulness of their faith, not its genuineness. Likewise, in John 15:6 Jesus is talking about fruitless believers and compares them to branches that are burned, in other words, not of much use. Matthew 7:15-20 warns against false prophets (not believers in general) who can be evaluated on the basis of their evil deeds or heretical teaching (not an absence of works in general).
There is no passage of Scripture that claims works can prove salvation. In fact, there are many problems with trying to use works to prove salvation, or the lack of works to disprove salvation.
Good works can characterize non-Christians. Works in and of themselves can not prove that anyone is eternally saved because those who have not believed in Christ will often do good things. In fact, good deeds are essential to many non-Christian religions. Sometimes the outward morality of non-Christians exceeds that of established Christians. In Matthew 7:21-23 we see the possibility of those who do not know Christ doing great works, but their works are useless in demonstrating their salvation; they are not saved.
Good works can be hard to define. Though we might define a good work as something done by a Christian through the Spirit for the Lord, how can we always know when that is true? It is hard to imagine even a single day when a Christian (or non-Christian, for that matter) would not do something good like go to work to provide for a family, hold a door for someone, or brake for a squirrel. How can we know when these things are done through the Spirit and for the Lord, especially if they can be done by non-Christians?
Good works are relative. While a person’s behavior may seem excessive, it may actually demonstrate great progress in that person’s Christian growth. A man slips with a curse word that startles other believers, but those believers do not know that before his conversion, curse words flowed freely. The amount of fruit must be considered in the context of one’s total past life, a difficult thing to do. It may also be relative to the amount of sin in one’s present life. For example, if a Christian were to commit adultery, we might focus our thinking on that sin so that we ignore the other good things he is doing.
Good works can be passive in nature. The fruit of salvation is not always what we do, but often what we do not do. As a Christian, one may no longer get drunk or may refrain from yelling at an inconsiderate motorist. This fruit of the Spirit, self-control, may not be detected by others because of its passive nature.
Good works can be unseen. In Matthew 6:1-6 Jesus told his followers to give and pray in secret rather than publicly. A person who never prays in a group may breathe a prayer while driving and no one will ever know. Another may not attend church, but give regularly to a Christian charity. These are works that go unobserved by others.
Good works can be deceptive. Since we can not know one’s motives, a seeming good work could be done for the wrong reason. A person might give money to a church to impress others. Another might volunteer to work with church children only to wait for an opportunity to sexually abuse them. These are not actually good works at all! Motives are difficult to discern, even for the doer, but God knows each person’s heart (1 Cor. 4:3-5)
Good works can be inconsistent. The Bible allows the possibility of believers who begin well, but fall away from their walk with the Lord or fall into sin (1 Cor. 11:30; 2 Tim. 4:10; James 5:19-20). If a Christian shows the evidence of a changed life, but later falls away, at what point in their life do we examine them to prove or disprove their salvation? If there can be lapses in good works, how long does the lapse continue before one is judged as never saved?
Conclusion
Nowhere does the Bible teach that fruit or good works can prove one’s eternal salvation. Since the fruit of good works is not easily discerned or quantified, it can not be reliable proof of salvation. The subjective nature of measuring one’s fruit creates the impossibility of knowing objectively whether someone is saved. The amount of fruit necessary to please one Christian “fruit inspector” may not please the next “fruit inspector.” As Christians, we are created in Jesus Christ to do good works (Eph. 2:10) and expected to do good works (1 Tim. 6:18; Titus 2:7, 14; Heb. 10:24), but good works are never attached to the condition for salvation, which is faith alone in Christ alone (Rom. 4:4-5). While good works can be corroborating evidence for one’s faith in Christ, they are not sufficient to prove or disprove it. Only faith in God’s promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ guarantees and proves our salvation.
Dr. Charlie Bing, GraceLife Ministries
I am right now trying to figure out what Lordship salvation is/is not and whether some preachers are being misunderstood or not. (I’ve been reading articles from many points of view on both Spurgeon & MacArthur) I’m NOT trying to stir up dissension. 🙂
From your article: “Scripture asserts that God does not need our “fruit” to prove to Him that we are believers, nor do we. God knows and we know whether or not we have trusted Christ as Savior. (1 John 5:13)”
Having recently listened to some of Paul Washer’s sermons on the Impossibility of the Christian Life, in which his thesis is that we are called to some very impossible things which we canNOT do without depending on Christ, I am curious about your take on a few things:
1) John 15:2 “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.” –Jesus Christ (He goes on in v. 6 to say, “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” Paul Washer didn’t come up with that; Jesus did.)
2) The scripture you cited above, I John 5:13, is also used by Washer to point out that we need to use the things the Apostle John wrote to find biblical assurance of salvation. (“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”)
Some of the things John wrote ‘unto’ us 🙂 are that:
* “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” I Jn. 1:6
* “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” I Jn 1:8 (So does Lordship salvation as you all have defined it in your minds equal sinless perfection? Because Mr. Washer uses this verse and verse 10 to directly contradict the existence of sinless perfection…Would that mean he’s not truly an advocate of this doctrine?)
*”He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” I Jn. 2:4
* ” Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” I Jn 2:15
I could use verse after verse of I John, but I think I’ve gone through enough to show what the apostle is talking about when he says, “these things have I written . . .”
I agree that it can get muddy when you try to decide how much sin is too much sin, etc., since we CAN’T be sinlessly perfect. However, the apostle seems to be pretty clear that if we say we’re saved but we’re not bearing fruit of loving God and having an overall lifestyle of desiring to walk with Him, etc. (not works, but fruit of GOD’S work) and never have, even though we’ve lived a lot longer since our profession of faith than the dying thief on the cross, then perhaps we “lie, and do not the truth.”
Sorry this got so long!
To summarize: how do you view John 15 and the book of I John (and many similar scriptures) if we can be saved without evidences? What exactly is Lordship Salvation and does your definition fit with Mr. Washer’s statements about sinless perfection not existing in earthly humans?
In the end, it doesn’t really matter whether Paul Washer is right or wrong since he’s just a man. What matters is whether Christ is glorified! 🙂
To clarify, when I said “if we can be saved without evidences,” I meant to say “if we can be saved and yet God does not change our lives enough for us to stand the evidence test,” or something similar. Clearly, God saves us without evidences of faith in our lives ahead of time! We are not able to save ourselves by anything we do!
Sorry for the miswording there!
Another question: how do you interpret II Corinthians 13:5? (“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”) Yes, my primary focus should be on God. But if I’m trying to be obedient to Scripture and that means examining myself to see whether I’m in the faith or not, how do I do so if looking for God’s fruits in my life is not an option?
Alana,
Thanks for your encouraging note of testimony. We are happy the Lord led you here and that the Lord also put the right words in our articles and comments to help you in your journey to God’s Free Grace.
We thank you for your comments and please come back often.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Alana,
Your salvation testimony is encouraging. You said,
“Obviously the holy spirit was showing me but i couldnt explain away other scriptures but am starting to see them differently now. It is hard to reprogram your mind to think right after being in the dark of lordship salvation.”
I am so thankful that it is indeed the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth and helps us to find our way through error. It sure is hard for us at times but keep leaning on Him.
thank you . I will stick to ron sheas explanation as it is so clear. And it agrees with what I have been reading on this site. Its not easy to switch gears in changing what we believe after been taught for so long that repent from your sins and believe on jesus for salvation. or be willing to quit your sins and trust jesus alone for your salvation. As in the past i had some lordship teaching that had me doubting my salvation. Even though on the inside I knew I was saved my mind began playing games on me and when i started examining my life all I could see where I wasnt
perfect and thought maybe they are right . As I was a child of 9 when I received jesus as my saviour. I simply believed on him to make me righteous, and knew I was going to heaven. As my parents were not christians I never became discipled and soon forgot about my salvation until 3 years later my parents got saved and finally got a bible and started to get to know jesus and grow. And it was exciting to know that he had kept me from the age of 9 even though I didnt carry through to discipleship. So these lordship teachers said you weren’t saved as you didnt grow and produce fruit and used all sorts of scriptures to prove their point. Which of course only confused me. I kept thinking why god do you say its a free gift
then and we cannot boast in ourselves as having anything to do with
getting saved than to receive the free gift of jesus but then we have to repent from sin or promise to turn from sin to move you to give us a new born again nature. I would argue in my mind we have to be 100 percent perfect to go to heaven and if we could,nt live 100 percent perfect before being saved and only jesus could grant to our account his 100 percent righteouness. How can our repenting from sin or promising to turn from sin for salvation plus receiving jesus 100 percent perfection save us. It just didnt fit. Your site and now i am beginning to see there are heaps of other people who have clicked on to salvation as a gift. Obviously the holy spirit
was showing me but i couldnt explain away other scriptures but am starting to see them differently now. It is hard to reprogram your mind to think right after being in the dark of lordship salvation.
thank you for your help
Alana,
I appreciate all of your good comments. I also have some thoughts a few of them.
You said,
“Even at the great throne judgement for
unbeleivers will be not their sins but their rejection of jesus that sends
them to hell.”
I think that is is correct to say that a person’s sin – even one- sends him to hell. The reason though that some are not is because, as you alluded to, they repented of their unbelief and trusted in Christ alone for salvation.
One could look at it this way: A person either appears before God with his sin or with Christ’s blood covering his sin. Those without Christ’s blood must pay for their sin in eternal separation from God. Those who have Christ’s blood covering their sins are the same as those written in the Lamb’s book of life. They will appear at the Bema Seat of Christ. Unbelievers left to their own “righteousness” will appear at the Great white throne judgement.
” He didnnt say the holy spirit convicts of sins he convicts us of
our need for jesus. our own conscience convicts us that we are sinners.”
I would say here that the Holy Spirit does convict us of sin but to the point that we see our need for a Savior. Yes the conscience also is involved along with God’s Word.
“If the father is not imputing peoples sins to them why would he tell them
repent of your sins and beleive.”
God does not impute sins to people. People sin on their own accord.
“He only convicts them of the one sin
which is have you received my son righteousness”.
I would say here that the conviction is of sin which demonstrates the need for a Savior which leads a person to trust Christ alone. Why should a person trust Christ for salvation if there is no need to be saved? It should also be noted that a person can reject the truth. God does not force anyone to faith.
The idea of repentance from sin is false because it implies that there is something that we can do to earn or deserve eternal life not to mention that the Bible never says that it is a condition for salvation. It is also not possible until after we trust Christ as Savior and even then it is not “for” salvation.
“anyway I am enjoying
reading this website. Its certainly different from a lot of teaching in the
pulpits today in churches.”
You are so right that these truths are scarce in today’s church pulpits. I thank God for sites like this one.
I did not intend to put quotes around my entire post above.
“Alana, you have found some very clear teaching on Biblical saving repentance from Ron Shea.
Conversely, Charlie Bing’s article on repentance confuses Bing’s otherwise generally consistent teaching that salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
From “Repentance: What’s In a Word”, Bing writes:
“So the best translation of metanoia would be a change of heart. It refers to a person’s inner change of attitude and moral direction. The Bible does not psychologically dissect the inner person, but leaves it at that.
Linguistically, a change of heart does not demand a change in conduct, though that is what is normally expected from an inner change. The Bible distinguishes between the inner change of repentance and the outer conduct it motivates.”
This is a problematic defintition of saving repentance for a number of reasons, the foremost of which is it does not address sins of the heart. If repentance is “a change of heart that does not demand a change in conduct”, then that means that sins of the heart have been addressed by an unsaved person, at least in part, before he becomes saved. Secondly, “a change in moral direction” sounds a lot like a change in disposition toward obedience to Christ, which is not a condition of salvation.
Jim F., in his comment from yesterday at 7:56, provided a very clear explanation of how defining repentance as “a change of heart” versus “a change of mind” can metastasize into further error.”
Hi Alana,
From what I gather from your last comment, I sense that you’re beginning to see the difference between Jesus Christ’s gospel and the loaded Lordship Probation version. You’re so right in recognizing that what you read here won’t be heard from the pulpits.
You said,
Jesus said,
Mark 2:17
If recognizing that I am terminally ill and require a certain doctor’s intervention in order to live qualifies as a work, then I guess I’m guilty. But I don’t boast in myself, but in the doctor’s ability.
However, as far as claiming that a person coming to the place where they’re “willing to not sin to receive the gift”, I would have to say is still off the mark. Rather, my understanding is that knowing you are born in Adam (which means you are eternally separated from God) and believing that Jesus, the Son of God, reconciled you to God the Father by His blood and rose from the dead on the third day* is the only requirement for receiving the gift of eternal life.
If I’ve missed something or am off the mark myself, hopefully someone will come alongside and tidy up my statement 🙂 .
* For a thoroughly correct gospel layout, see https://expreacherman.com/eternal-life-for-you/
Hi thank you jim. I saw ron sheas website and went through his teaching
on repentance which was amazing I thought salvation is so simple. I then
continued on and read a teacher charlie bing on repentance in salvation.
He mentioned repentance didnt mean turning from sin but just an internal
change of heart and mind, and moral disposition which is,nt a work as its an
inner change of heart which you need so you can beleive . Anyway
it still seemed like works as you would have to still be willing to not sin
to receive the free gift. So then you could,nt rest on jesus perfection
for heaven it would still be your ability to change your moral attitude.
reading through acts I realised a lot of the time when repentance was
mentioned it was to the jewish people who had to change their mind
about jesus not their sin and not realizing that they had to be 100 perfect
to enter heaven. And jesus is the only one who made the grade and
imputes it to us when we receive him. In the epistles paul mentioned
he does,nt impute sins to the world the only sin is unbeleif people have
to repent from for heaven. Even at the great throne judgement for
unbeleivers will be not their sins but their rejection of jesus that sends
them to hell. In john where it talks about the holy spirit convicts of sin righteousness and judgement. He convicts of sin because they beleive not
on me. He didnnt say the holy spirit convicts of sins he convicts us of
our need for jesus. our own conscience convicts us that we are sinners.
If the father is not imputing peoples sins to them why would he tell them
repent of your sins and beleive. He only convicts them of the one sin
which is have you received my son righteousness. anyway I am enjoying
reading this website. Its certainly different from a lot of teaching in the
pulpits today in churches.
Alana,
You do not have to have a “change of heart” resulting in a change of lifestyle to be saved. People using this argument usually have a repentance from sin/s view of conversion. They may even be teaching Lordship salvation.
I’ve found that those talking about a change of heart rather than change of mind usually premise salvation on things like: a deep conviction of sin, abhorring sin, a new desire to serve God, a desire to ‘make Jesus the Lord of their life”, a willingness to take up their cross and follow Christ etc. Now these people may add in repentance (changing of mind) and belief to mix, they book mark it with error (before and after). The biggest error before is that anything other than faith in Christ alone could possibly help to save you and the error after is that good works must be maintained to either show you were saved (Calvinism) or to maintain your salvation(Arminianism).
hi i have been reading the free grace teaching. I have noticed some people
say that repentance means an change of our heart or inner moral attitude.
rather than just a change of mind about salvation through jesus. And
so you do have to repent and beleive. not repent of sins but have to have
a change of heart which will result in a change of lifestyle when you beleive
on jesus. could you explain
Dime,
I have no idea how an honest Calvinist (if there is such) can justify any of their erroneous theology.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi Jack,
I noticed in your other blog posts that the bible must be interpreted in a dispensational manner. And in doing so, the premillenial view is established too. Most Calvinists and LSers are covenant theologians and reject the dispensational view, and are amillenial/postmillenial. Do you know why that is and how their views are linked?
Thanks,
Dime
Holly and Jack, I have seen some very long treatises on repentance and some of them are very good. The quote from ExP’s Statement of Faith (above) is short, sweet and accurate.
A couple of others that say the same thing, in slightly different words, are as follows:
From J.O. Hosler:
“Salvation repentance is not turning from sin to Christ, but rather a turning to Christ with one’s sins.”
From “The Gospel” by Ron Shea:
“If faith is the hand that accepts salvation through Jesus Christ, repentance is the hand that rejects salvation by any other means.”
See link, below:http://www.cleargospel.org/booklet.php?b_id=3&i_id=39&s=2
Holly,
Thanks for your very interesting “novel.” You have brought up a couple of issues that I will do my best to respond to — and perhaps others will comment upon what I write. I pray I understand you correctly.
1) “Turning to God” is not repentance but could be the result of of repentance (a change of mind about Jesus Christ). This below is from Item #17 of our ExP Statement of Faith:
2) A believer should strive to live an exemplary Biblical Christian life. However, one’s life does not convince a person to trust Jesus Christ as Savior, only the Gospel of God’s Grace will do so.
A person’s behavior may make their beliefs appealing to another, but behavior is not the Gospel. 1 Corinthians 2:2 “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” That exemplifies our witness of the Gospel.
Behavioral example: Before I trusted Christ as my Savior, I admired some wonderful Catholic and Lutheran friends. They were wise, kind, “religious,” sweet, loving and gentle. BUT I am thankful I did not follow their behavioral example and tumble into their religion. A Christian’s behavior should not focus the unbeliever’s attention on the Christian but upon the Christ, God in the Flesh, the Savior Jesus. 1 Peter 2:12 “Having your conversation {conduct or behavior} honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.” We should never teach our emotions or experience as the way of salvation. That borders on a Lordship “salvation” message. Our message should be that our salvation is only by belief/faith in Jesus the Christ alone as our Savior — which is the Gospel. Romans 1:16 (excerpted) says that The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.
If our behavior changes after our believing in Jesus Christ, that is desired, wonderful and Biblical but is not required by God to keep or maintain our salvation.
Holly, I pray that this is clear. We never mean to offend or upset anyone but we are so concerned that we make God’s Gracious salvation perfectly clear — all of His Grace and none of our efforts, works or behavior.
Quite some time, (not immediately), after I trusted Christ as my Savior, this verse became one of my favorites: Philippians 1:27 “Only let your conversation {conduct/behavior} be as it becometh {enhances or is appropriate to} the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the GOSPEL;” (My emphasis).
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jim F,
Calvinists like John Piper love that verse (and others like it) because they twist them to to fit their preconceived “elect and chosen” mantra.
And they lie with such a sweet smile on their collective faces. (Or are they just ignorant of Scripture.)
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack and Tom, I am always appreciative of men who will correct error in their own comments. That speaks volumes always to me, and touches me at your humbling of yourself. But I did know what you meant, and very much appreciated being informed of the misuse of that passage by Piper.
Here’s a question about what you said regarding repentance being the responsibility of the individual and God giving everyone that opportunity. I do agree in man’s responsibility, but here is how I understand it (hoping I will verbalize it well). That even when I see the way believers are exhorted in 2 Tim 2 (and also Col 4:5-6 comes to mind) to not indulge in foolish arguments, to study His Word and rightly divide it, to not strive, to be gentle, apt to teach, patient, meekly instructing, wisdom, grace always in our speech, salt etc.; how it appears to me is to be a responsibility upon us all in our behavior towards those who are not His, that our behavior is part of what God uses in turning those to Him.
It’s a very hard thing to put into words, I don’t want to mischaracterize God ever and I am always open to correction. He rebuked me, I turned at His rebuke. And after spending time, or as I spend time, His goodness, and forbearance and longsuffering has been what gave me the understanding of even feeling repentant over sins. I hope that makes sense. I know the purpose of Isaiah 28, but reading how they would not hear His Word, and would not receive the rest by which the weary could rest, or the refreshing they would not hear. But that precept upon precept, line upon line etc… the Word of the Lord was upon them, (as was me) and I was broken and snared and taken, but by Him. But unlike them, I said, “I will hear Lord” and I fell upon that stone, it did not fall on me. I was broken, but in the right way.
I find it such a work of the enemy that the wisdom of men’s words in twisting God’s Word could convince man that he somehow has no choice, no free will, and how awful to wonder until the day you die, whether or not you are truly His. I know they doctor up the plain fact in a lot of their theological-ease, however, in their attempts to define Sovereignty, in some ways they have debased His nature in my humble opinion. Well, enough of my novel for today. God bless you all here.
Thanks for that clarification Jack. Sadly there are too many out there who use Acts 11:18 as a proof text to try to say that man can’t have repentance unless God gives it to him. Rather this verse is saying that even the gentiles may repent (change their mind) and believe. I believe that this verse was not meant to be applied in an individual sense to the “elect.”
Holly,
I owe you an apology and want to make a correction to my statement in our discussion on the Paul Washer article.
My dear friend Dr. Tom Cucuzza corrected me about a sentence I wrote: “That phrase ‘God grants repentance’ is not in the Authorized KJV Bible..”
Tom wrote:
I appreciate Tom’s sharp eye and correction. Of course we agree that word “granted” in Acts 11:18 is the same word as “gives” in 2 Timothy 2:25, from the same Greek word “Didomi” and has the same meaning in context which is “suffer” — or as we would say “allow.”
My point, which I know you understand, is that Repentance is the responsibility of the individual.. and God allows (gives, suffers) everyone that opportunity.
I do apologize if my misstatement has caused any consternation or confusion.
Thanks again for your fellowship and friendship in Jesus Christ.
In Christ eternally, Jack
Holly,
You are right, that those who would pervert God’s Word will make “proof texts” of just about any verse to justify their position.
Yes, as you say, the Truth IS essential.. It is an eternal “life and death situation” and souls are at stake.
It is amazing that folks can love and approve of Spurgeon, even after reading his Turn or Burn sermon. Blindness is not just a physical disease.
Thanks again for your friendship and excellent comments.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, thank you for explaining that, I believe I took it from the NKJV, I would not use the ESV, and KJV is my favorite. I see it the way you explained it, but I imagine some will always take verses and make them their proof texts.
One thing I seem to notice in common is they are very familiar with all of their proof texts as well as the opposition’s answers from God’s Word which they do not seem very honest in answering. What is troubling to me, is people see this as a non-essential, something that we should not argue over. How much more essential can you get than life and death? Than presenting a different gospel?
Someone said to me, it was “semantics”… I want to encourage everyone here, if they have not read the “Turn or Burn” sermon by Spurgeon that Jack linked to here, it’s a must read, and highlight his explanations on how much repentance, the type of repentance, did you really actually repent enough, and did you repent until the moment you drew your last breath… Spurgeon couldn’t have lived up to that, so he must have been awfully miserable, or he must have thought very highly of himself. I know one thing, how frightening to be a teacher and be teaching these things, and then have to answer for their teachings…
How sad to constantly wonder if you are one of the elect. It’s almost like they must have skipped over Romans 6 and 7.
Thank you again for having started this blog. In Him…
LukeNC,
Welcome back.
Indeed we are in “some troubling times.” The pastor you quoted is a Lordship “salvationist, or at the very least ignorantly preaching a “commitment salvation” message which is the same lie and is NO salvation at all. Great observation.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
I recently heard a pastor give a “lordship salvation” message while pointing to Catholicism and calling them a false religion. Then, he said we are in the “last days” and the “falling away” are those who refuse to “make the commitment to Christ”, with believing=commitment.
We are in some troubling times.
Abe,
Many times para-church organizations and even local churches deliberately give vague statements of faith so that more people will agree with them.The truth is this: The more specific you get, the fewer people will agree with you. But the Lord has called us to be clear and “up front” with what we believe. This shows integrity in ministry.
2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Tom Cucuzza
I was reading the doctrinal statement of a well-known parachurch organization, and this is what they said concerning salvation:
“We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful man, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.”
That’s it. That’s all they said about salvation specifically. The rest of their doctrinal statement concerned things like that the Bible is the Word of God, Jesus was born of a virgin, His vicarious atoning death, resurrection, and the spiritual unity of all believers. But nothing more about how a person goes to heaven. Just that one statement about regeneration by the Holy Spirit being absolutely essential.
I remember reading that same sentence in another church, and another parachurch organization besides this particular one. Why are so many using this statement as if it was the Gospel? It doesn’t tell me how to be regenerated.
And that was the nature of my question before for Tom, and so thank you Tom for answering my question. Tom’s answer was perfect.
But this parachurch organization’s doctrinal statement is anything but perfect. With these kinds of doctrinal statements like I found from this parachurch organization, they don’t really give you the Gospel at all. Just that, you must be regenerated. But say that to a person on the street. They have no idea what I would mean by telling them that.
Hi Tom,
Great to hear from you! I trust that you, your wife and family are all well.
I commend you for your ongoing steadfast presentation of the biblical gospel in simplicity and clarity. You and Dr. James Scudder (Sr. and Jr.) and a few other likeminded pastors are keeping the gospel focus where it needs to be.
.
Dear Holly,
Thanks so much — we appreciate friends who appreciate what we do here — Preach the Gospel of God’s Grace and expose the errors in teachings, teachers and theologies.
I am so sorry that you have been attacked, but when one stands for the Truth of God’s Word, we will be attacked… guaranteed. But be bold and strong in the Faith. We are here for you.
I noted one thing in your note that I want to explore. You said that “God grants repentance.” Repentance is a change of mind for which the individual is responsible, not God. That phrase “God grants repentance” is not in the Authorized KJV Bible but it is in the ESV Bible (a Calvinist favorite) and the NIV (error prone), both of which we have proven to be, in many cases, interpolated, inaccurate and misleading. Calvinist John Piper uses that phrase from his ESV to justify his false “salvation” message of election, “God grants repentance for some.” In the KJV (2 Timothy 2:25) the correct wording is “God gives repentance,” which in this particular context (in the Greek didomi) means “to suffer or allow.” God, by His Grace, allows us to change our mind (repent) about a myriad of things. Repentance to believe in salvation by Grace in Jesus Christ alone being one of the greatest and that is our responsibility. But God also allows us to change our minds daily about many things Biblical as we grow in Grace and learn His word – as you so beautifully illustrate in your personal life.
Holly, thanks again and I appreciate your discernment and passion for the Truth. That is rare. We thank the Lord we have many folks here at ExPreacherMan who care deeply and comment regularly about Biblical discernment.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Abe,
You are absolutely correct! Isn’t it wonderfully simple? Only God Himself would do it that way! Man would complicate the whole issue and make it a “mystery”.
Tom Cucuzza
Tom,
Thank you, that explains it clearly and easily. Then the one that has believed in Jesus Christ for eternal life, is automatically regenerated in that moment. If my understanding is incorrect, I will trust that someone will correct me.
Hi Abe,
Good question. The word “regeneration” is actually made up of two words. “Re” which is the word “palin”, meaning “again”, and “generate” which is actually the word “genesis”, meaning “beginning”. It is then beginning again. It refers to the new birth.
Hope this helps.
Tom Cucuzza
Can someone please give a true Biblical definition of regeneration? I appreciate the words that were posted which Tom Cucuzza spoke. I know that faith comes first. I just want to know what is regeneration as defined by the Bible.
This Comment is from:
Dr. Tom Cucuzza. (He asked me to post it for him – Jack).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Jack, Bruce, and friends,
I have been appreciating the good insights on the false doctrine of Calvinism/lordship salvation that have been written here on the blog. While I may be repeating some things already mentioned, I would like to mention these points from my perspective:
1. To say that I must be regenerated before I can believe is simply a false gospel, for it makes the condition for salvation regeneration instead of faith.
The Bible is so clear that faith in Christ brings the new birth. John 3 is very clear on this. Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again (regenerated). Jesus then told Nicodemus HOW to be born again- faith in Christ, v.15-18. How much simpler can it be?
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
When the Philippian jailer asked, what must I do to be saved, Paul and Silas did NOT say, “Be regenerated, then you can believe.” They said:
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
See also:
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that regeneration comes before faith.
2. If regeneration is salvation, then why do I have to believe to be saved if I am already saved?
3. If a person believes the false doctrine, then he or she may be waiting for “regeneration”. This introduces us to the quagmire of “Am I one of the elect or not?” How will they know? Is it a feeling? And with the teaching of the fifth point, the perseverance of the saints, then how CAN you know if you have to “WAIT” until the end of your life to find out, all based on your works?
In reality, would this not be a demonic doctrine to get a person to WAIT to trust Christ, when we have no guarantee of even another heartbeat? Any idea that leads a person to WAIT to trust Christ is a demonic trick. Purgatory would be another false teaching that does this.
Thanks for the good work.
Tom Cucuzza
http://www.northlandchurch.com/
Dearest Jack. I am blessed and overjoyed to have you as an elder brother in Christ. I have long prayed to find brethren who are discerning and bold to speak, yet with sound speech. Only God grants repentance to acknowledging His truth, (2 Tim 2:25) and I believe we are shown what that repentance is (Turn-Prov. 1:23). Or at least that is how it was for me. As I listened to God’s Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit as I was taught, He showed me, that He would teach even me… what a wonderful Saviour… (Pr 22:17-21)
Jesus said ONE THING was needful and I have “chosen” it.. (yes I have free will to choose 🙂 – Luke 10:38-42. And in doing so, over time, His goodness, His forbearance, His longsuffering…well all of that became known as I was washed in the water by the Word, sanctified by His truth, the repentance continues. (Eph 5:26; John 17:17) I known one thing, I cannot do it without Him, but He says, yoke myself to Him, and I have. His burden is light.
These men, these Pharisees, want to put a yoke upon our necks that the fathers could not bear. Our hearts are purified by FAITH, and if these men would spend as much time preaching God’s Word vs. their interpretation of God’s Word, just simply pointing people to Christ, encouraging them to get into the meat of His Word, trusting the simplicity in Christ, the foolish message… but instead, they want to add to His Word… or take away from His Word, or twist His Word. His Word will accomplish what HE sent it to do, not their many words. (Is 55:10-11)
JACK…. I have been attacked many times in my life as I KNOW you have. This last few days since the posting of the article has probably been my most memorable and exhausting, yet the Lord is very faithful. It shows me a lot about this movement. I have been emailed by well meaning people who “get along in the non-essentials” and don’t understand why I cannot, to those who are more “spiritually mature” and “discerning”, as well as stronger in the faith than I, (by their own self-admission), Those who want to chastise me for my rants and attacks on “incredible men of God”.
I am not usually surprised, we should be prepared, but truthfully, it was quite a lot more than I expected. I thank God that He knew, He prepared in advance another to come alongside in prayer before the attacks started, and prompted others as well. I thank the Lord that He is my armor. I am so thankful for the saints who pray for one another, and encourage you with His Word.
I can only imagine what you might yourself see in attacks in your life. I am praying for you, and for all of your loved ones. Thank you so much for posting this article, for standing on the truth, for building your walls with treasure that will last. More than anything, these last few days showed me what a HUGE stronghold this Calvinism and Lordship salvation has. I know how weak I am, but I so thankful the Lord is strong and is willing to use us. So thankful for the truth of His Word and for other like-minded believers as yourself. Praise God.
As I told one of the ones who attacked me for “attacking” … I believe no one can come save the Father draw them, and I am thankful He drew all peoples to Himself when He lifted up Christ on the cross. Let God be true and every man a Liar. Thank you, thank you. God bless you. In His great love to you all.
So true bro. Bruce, the Bible does shed great light on the commentaries. Nothing wrong with a good commentary, but if one leads us contrary to Biblical truth, rather than helping us understand the truth better, it can actually cause an obstruction to seeing the very truth it purports to teach. I appreciate you all. God Bless.
Hello Mikey,
Thank you for joining the discussion today. Please come back again soon.
You have excellent discernment and you are so right in saying that we should stick to the simplicity and clarity of the gospel that is presented clearly in the Bible. Someone once said, “The Bible sheds great light on the commentaries.” This expression especially rings true when dealing with questionable commentators, as you indicated, such as the likes of Spurgeon, MacArthur and Washer. Blessings on you as you continue to study the Word.
Greetings to you sir. I want to say how pleased I am to have chanced upon your blogsite especially this one that deals on LS and Mr. Paul Washer himself. I am pleased with your informative way of disseminating the essence of what LS is and how it’s tied to Calvinism. Although I once attended and was a member of one fundamentalist Baptist church, that’s where I first learned the 5 point Calvinist TULIP, and Spurgeon was likewise esteemed as an exemplary preacher there. I have since moved on to another Baptist church.
I am but a simple man who doesn’t make claims of outstanding intellect or understanding except for what I simply believe as Bible truth taken from the Bible exclusively. I can recall a secular saying that says “too many cooks can spoil the dish” which is why at most times I veer away from the interpolations of many so called Bible truth experts. The next page they’ll be talking you into a different way of looking at Bible doctrines. Where I come from they’ve narrowed down the partition to two beliefs or understanding of how salvation is acquired – the calvinistic election and arminianism. Unlike what you said here in your blog, calvinists here teach that arminianism being their opposite, includes those who maintain the “whosoever will” stance (which opposes the calvinistic doctrine of election) and are therefore one and the same. But I can assure you that these “whosoever will” believers have a solid hold on eternal security and will always say “once saved, always saved”.
Am I wrong to say then that since I anchor my faith only in Jesus therefore I shall anchor my faith only on His word, the Bible? No MacArthurs, no Spurgeons, no Washers – just Jesus and His word and the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe such were the practice of the 1st century believers living in the sufficiency and efficacy of God’s word, aided only by the apostles’ epistles in ‘testing the spirits’.
I’m sorry that I have taken so much space here and of your time. I am indeed blessed to have found your site and would wish to read more of your opinions in the future. Thank you very much.
John and Jim F,
Right on target and well done.
Bruce —
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TEXTBOOK Lordship “salvation” is absolutely true. That is why Spurgeon is so beloved by Calvinists, LSers and other non-thinking “theologians.”
In Christ eternally, Jack
John,
For all of those who claim that Spurgeon was not a teacher of Lordship Salvation, this quotation of Spurgeon’s that you cite is TEXTBOOK Lordship Salvation doctrine.
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Amother Spurgeon “classic”:
From “What is It to Win a Soul?”:
“True conversion is in all men attended by a sense of sin, which we have spoken of under the head of conviction; by a sorrow for sin, or holy grief at having committed it; by a hatred of sin, which proves that its dominion is ended; and by a practical turning from sin, which shows that the life within the soul is operating upon the life without. True belief and true repentance are twins: it would be idle to attempt to say which is born first. All the spokes of a wheel move at once when the wheel moves, and so all the graces commence action when regeneration is wrought by the Holy Ghost.
Repentance, however, there must be. No sinner looks to the Saviour with a dry eye or a hard heart. Aim, therefore, at heart-breaking, at bringing home condemnation to the conscience, and weaning the mind from sin, and be not content till the whole mind is deeply and vitally changed in reference to sin.
Another proof of the conquest of a soul for Christ will be found in a real change of life. If the man does not live differently from what he did before, both at home and abroad, his repentance needs to be repented of; and his conversion is a fiction. Not only action and language, but spirit and temper must be changed. “
Jim F., in addition to the error of believing that regeneration precedes faith, to believe that repentance unto salvation involves turning from sin is to turn the Gospel into a false gospel of works.
Jim F., great analysis. I still get back to “the chicken or the egg” question. That is, do people falsely believe that regeneration precedes faith because they don’t believe the Gospel, or do people not believe the Gospel because they believe that regeneration precedes faith?
Hi Jack, Thanks for getting me to think about these things. Here are my thoughts that hopefully can be of a warning and help to others.
Paul Washer revealed himself as a five point Spurgeonist and proceeded to expound on what truly is a crux of the whole matter. The error however is Washer’s. To believe that regeneration precedes faith is one of the most grievous errors that persons can make, especially if they want to have an accurate gospel message. A person can talk about dry bones all day but it does not make it true. Washer’s next error is to tell people to test themselves to see if they are in the faith meaning that they need to test themselves to see if they are one of the regenerated elect.
The dilema then arises for people trapped in this error of what to do if they find that they fail the supposed test of regeneration. Spurgeon’s erroneous answer was to pray and ask God for the gift of repentance. In Sinner! Turn or Burn, Spurgeon says the following: “Sinner! thou art so desperately set on sin, that I have no hope thou wilt ever turn from it of thyself. But listen! He who died on Calvary is exalted on high “to give repentance and remission of sin.” Dost thou this morning feel that thou art a sinner? If so, ask of Christ to give thee repentance, for he can work repentance in thine heart by his Spirit, though thou canst not work it there thyself. Is thy heart like iron? He can put it into the furnace of his love and make it melt. Is thy soul like the nether millstone? His grace is able to dissolve it like the ice is melted before the sun. He can make thee repent, though thou canst not make thyself repent. If thou feelest thy need of repentance, I will not now say to thee “repent,” for I believe there are certain acts that must precede a sense of repentance.”
(You will never turn from sin yourself. That is why you turn to God believing in the finished work of Christ for salvation. It must be in Christ alone, not in him plus anything that you do or don’t do. Please also note that Spurgeon and others like Washer often use repentance as turning from sin. Also, do not get concerned with “certain acts” that need to precede Spurgeon’s definition of repentance.)
Spurgeon further said: “Then if it should be laid to your heart to endeavour to seek after repentance, I will tell you the best way to find it. Spend an hour first in endeavouring to remember thy sins; and when conviction has gotten a firm hold on thee, then spend another hour—where? At Calvary, my hearer. Sit down and read that chapter which contains the history and mystery of the God that loved and died; sit down and think thou seest that glorious Man, with blood dropping from his hands, and his feet gushing rivers of gore; and if that does not make thee repent, with the help of God’s Spirit, then I know of nothing that can.”
(This is pure ridiculousness. No one can remember all their sins. Not even close. It is irrelevant anyway. We must come to Christ for the solution. Only trusting Him alone can save. The Bible says that “now is the accepted time.” Believe on Christ today for salvation.)
My prayer is that many would recognize this error that has been passed down from men like Spurgeon right into our own churches. May we not change the gospel.
Jim F
Hi Jack,
Your term “hypnotized masses” especially rings true in regard to Paul Washer’s style of preaching—the sadness and sincerity of his eyes, the tearful pleading lilt to his voice—combine to make a convincing presentation of bad doctrine.
John,
Thanks. You are so right in your analysis… Washer is really bad news but he is just one of too many “preachers” teaching false doctrine (ignorantly or on purpose) and being adored by the hypnotized masses. Ecumenical, eternal suicide. Pitiful.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Amen Pearl
So…”let us not be weary in well doing…” Well said.
In Christ eternally, Jack
Oh, I forgot one: So-called Free Grace sites extoll the virtues of Charles Hadley Spurgeon, calling him the “Prince of Preachers” in a seemingly adoring way and falsely claiming that he did not teach LS.
Abe has it right. He said:
“He doesn’t care what they believed, so long as they taught works for salvation.”
Look around. Heretical books (and accompanying films) like “Not a Fan” are being taught in “small groups” in protestant religions ranging from Southern Baptist to Lutheran.
People are earning religious “merit badges” by the thousand in churches across America by going on extended mission trips to third world nations to dig latrines and teach “green” farming.
Works are considered more important than sound doctrine. Going along to get along is highly valued. Taking a stand for the Gospel is considered unnecessarily divisive.
Meanwhile, many communities in America – including large ones – don’t even have one church with remotely sound doctrine.
And thank you, Bruce & Jack, for your encouraging friendship.
One shovel at a time…sounds terribly daunting, but God has a way of directing our paths in spite of ourselves, doesn’t He? After all, He brought me here, and I wasn’t even looking for help. I’m always amazed by stuff like that…
Back then, as I first became aware of LS through your site, I had thought it lay primarily at the feet of John Mac and Paul Washer (who weren’t even among those whom I paid much attention – but their quotes and sermons are regularly featured at the sites I used to frequent). Then, like peeling layers of an onion, it became evident to me how so many teachers overlap with others, right across the religious spectrum; LS began to hit home. What a journey!
So…”let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Pearl,
Thanks for your thoughts – I figure we all can look back and say, “Wish I had been clearer in my message.” I know I do.
But now we move on and look forward with a renewed mind to love our Savior and share that “So Great Salvation” provided to us by God’s Amazing free Grace.
All I can say about Eric Ludy’s blender cocktail theology is this… It is no more than an unappealing bloody mess with no power to save!!!
We love you — hang in there!!!
In Jesus eternally, Jack
Thank you, Pearl, for those most encouraging verses and words of testimony. Sometimes, as I said once before, standing for the grace gospel of Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16, Romans 4:5, Acts 16:30-31, et. al., against the widely pervasive onslaught of Lordship Salvation teaching, is akin to trying to hold back an avalanche with a snow shovel. But wonderful grace friends like you and beautiful grace testimonies like yours keep me going.
“Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.” James 3:13-15
“Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.” I Corin. 1:12-15
Washer calling himself a “five-point Spurgeonist” is a major fleshly indicator. Reminds me of another commenter’s pointing out months ago how another LSer boasts of himself:
No doubt in my mind that he speaks for thousands upon thousands of professing Christians.
Makes my stomach churn when I think how many years of my life I have given toward teachers like Tozer and Martyn-Lloyd Jones (and a handful of others). Ever since I’ve scrapped them and their ilk to the dung heap, I have a peace in my soul which was previously easily troubled and unsettled. Looking back on the self-righteous crumbs I dropped along the way to “entice” lost family members makes me cringe. No wonder they’re unpersuaded; surely this is the most grievous consequence of following after these men.
Abe,
Thanks for visiting with us and commenting this morning. You are welcome here.
Yes, one wonders if folks like Washer understand the Bible at all. But as you say, he looks “to voices from the past” for his doctrine, especially as long as those voices teach works for “salvation.”
Please join us any time.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
These people, Washer and those he chose to follow from the past, have never read Romans chapter 4.
I find it hilarious that Washer looks up to voices from the past that were calvinist and arminian. He doesn’t care what they believed, so long as they taught works for salvation.
Jack, great expose’ of this fraud, Washer, and his fraudulent idols. “Five point Spurgeonist” – ughh!