Lordship Salvation: This Easter, Are You a Basket Case?

By johninnc

Definition of basket case from Merriam Webster: 2a person who is mentally incapacitated or worn out (as from nervous tension) also: one that is not functioning well or is in a run-down condition

This Sunday, the world of professing Christendom celebrates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day. His resurrection was prophesied in scripture and was witnessed by more than five hundred people.

1 Corinthians 15:3-6: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

Following is a brief explanation of God’s plan for the salvation of mankind:

  • Everyone is a sinner
  • The penalty for sin is death (eternal separation from God in a place of conscious torment – hell)
  • One must be perfect to get into heaven. Not good. Not great. Perfect.
  • One cannot do anything of himself to obtain this perfection – this includes turning from sin, committing your life to Christ and so on. God offers eternal life as a gift – it’s not for sale or barter.
  • God provided a sin-bearer for us (The Lord Jesus Christ, God in the
flesh. He had no sin of his own, but he came to die for us, paying the full penalty for our sin. He was raised from the dead, proving that His payment was acceptable).
  • Anyone who believes in Jesus as Savior receives, from the moment of belief, everlasting life, that can never be lost of forfeited.

In contrast to God’s plan of salvation is the false gospel of Lordship “salvation,” or LS. There are seemingly endless variations of LS, but at its core LS is the unsupportable and unbiblical belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.

LS is insidious, and is pervasive within professing Christendom. LS both keeps people from coming to faith in Christ and bewitches Christians. LS makes people into basket cases.

Following are three categories of basket cases associated with LS:

The Case of the Counterfeit Convert

Luke 8:12: Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

This is a person who has never trusted in Christ alone as Savior. He may be a true believer – in the false gospel of LS.

He believes that Christ is necessary for eternal life, but he has never believed that Christ is enough.

For whatever reason, he has never been willing to put all of his eggs in one basket.

The Case of the Confused Christian

Galatians 3:1-2: O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

This is someone who has trusted in Christ as Savior, but through exposure to false doctrine has had their Christian growth stunted and has been rendered ineffective in spreading the gospel.

This person may have lost the joy and assurance of eternal life, and looks in the wrong places to regain it. He could become very busy in faux spiritual pursuits, or wander away from matters of faith altogether.

By returning to proper doctrine, and avoiding those who compromise the gospel, he may get back on track.

If not, he is likely to go down one rabbit hole after another,

The Case of the Careless Compromiser

Galatians 2:5: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

The careless compromiser is someone who is clear on the gospel, but willingly compromises the gospel through association with people or organizations that corrupt it.

He may have all kinds of reasons that seem rational to him (familial harmony, political patronage, financial gain, social opportunities, etc.), but his compromise contributes to creating the other basket cases, described above.


LS is like the plastic grass in Easter baskets. It kind of resembles grass, but its not the real thing.

For the real thing click here: THE GOSPEL




63 responses to “Lordship Salvation: This Easter, Are You a Basket Case?

  1. Leigh, I have prayed for Chloe and her family.

  2. I know this doesn’t have anything to do with the topic at hand, but everybody who sees this, please, please pray for my friend’s little girl named Chloe. The doctor thinks she recently had a seizure and she’s going in for a CAT scan sometime this week, I think Tuesday or Wednesday. We’re all very deeply concerned. Please pray for her and ask others to as well. Thank you very much and God bless.

  3. Fair. Haha. It’s amazing what God will show a person who just asks Him.

  4. Brad, I would rather not delve too much into the psychological ramifications of the sin of pride. I think it is sufficient to say that we are all vulnerable to pride.

    Threats to this ministry come in varying forms, some from people with malicious intent, some from people with innocuous intent, and even some from people with good intent.

    Potential things that could harm this ministry include:

    1. Attempts to corrupt the gospel message
    2. Compromising with those who corrupt the gospel message
    3. Those who deliberately cause dissension
    4. Groups that try to overwhelm our resources
    5. Threads that drift into the weeds, or become repetitive
    6. People who are inordinately needy, and distract from the mission of the ministry

    It is always difficult to know what anyone’s motive is for making a comment, or series of comments, but I try to err on the side of caution in administering the site.

  5. What if there was a ravening wolf amongst us here on this website? I feel I should bring that posssibility up so we don’t accidentally conclude that they couldn’t be here at all just because this website clarifies God’s plan for salvation so consistently well. We already know they can be very subtle. I suppose it’s just a good reminder to remain vigilant regardless of what website you’re on or place you’re at. Thankfully johninnc does a great job at moderating the posts here. But lets never stop being Bereans, because Satan seeks all whom he may devour. Don’t let your guard down.

    I have come to realize recently that pride is amongst the most dangerous sins, practically speaking, we can commit. Because pride blinds people, anyone can fall into pride without even realizing. It’s entrance into a person’s conduct and thinking can be just as subtle as so many false teachings are. Works for salvation beliefs empower a person’s pride in themselves, I think that is far from a coincidence:

    False teachers specifically employ subtle language when teaching works for salvation doctrines —> listeners to those false teachings (who are entirely unaware of the false teacher’s tactics) have those false teachings bypass their conscious minds all together, meaning they enter their subconscious minds instead —> the listener now believes that works play a role in salvation without them even realizing they believe it —> the listener thus continues to consciously think they don’t believe in works for salvation, but subconsciously they still do —> doublemindedness begins here, they proclaim that salvation is not of works and also is of works, at the same time —> now the environment is fertile in their minds for pride in their works to grow —> because of their complete unawareness of their works for salvation belief, their pride in their works is left to grow completely unchecked —> what began as blindness caused by subliminal messaging, can turn fairly quickly into delusions of perfection and self-righteousness —> if still left unchecked, the pride will eventually lead to a partial, and then a complete detachment from reality —> they are now trapped in a prison they cannot see, smell, touch, sense or feel —> they believe they are free, while being enslaved —> they believe they know the truth, while only knowing fantasy. You can fill in the blanks from there. It’s not a pretty picture.

    While all of this is occurring to them, they remain completely consciously unaware of anything having happened at all.

    Of course I do lay this out under the hypothetical of God not intervening, which is why I took it to the worst case scenario. Mental illnessness.

    Please ask God to reveal your pride to yourself. We all have it to some degree, but only when it is being fed regularly and left in an unchecked state does it become a serious problem. I say all this because I recently asked God for this very thing and He answered almost immediately.

    It was pride that caused Lucifer to rebel against God to begin with. If it weren’t for Lucifer’s decision to become filled with pride for himself; he never would have became Satan, there would be no devils, no sin, no death.

    Another pretty solid case against works for salvation I believe.

    I am open to any corrections on this by the way, seeing as it is a heavy topic and I’m not a qualified psychologist. Constructive criticism is no criticism at all.

  6. Thanks.

  7. Brad, I did. I accept your apology.

  8. Did you even read what I just posted?

  9. Brad, we all have need to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus, no matter how much scripture we know or understand.

    I sometimes read commentary on scripture, and am satisfied with the view given by the writer. Other times, I have a 180 degree different view. Still other times, I can understand why a person might say something, but I’m not convinced they are right.

    For example, in the recent thread about letting the dead bury the dead, I entertained the view that Jesus was saying to let spiritually dead people bury the dead. Although this is a common view, I am not satisfied that it is right, for the reasons I mentioned. So, I offered what I thought were some plausible other meanings. That doesn’t mean that my view is the correct, nor the only reasonable view that is consistent with grace.

    We also had a discussion about prayer, with some really tough questions. One of the things I pray frequently is to thank God for His word, ask Him to teach me His word, and that I would be teachable.

  10. rorynes191, good point. Discipleship to a lot of people means following non-biblical church dogma.

  11. rorynes191, the Apostle Paul spoke of this conflict in Romans 7:24-25: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    Regarding persecution, almost all of the contrary comments that we get at ExPreacherman are from religious people claiming the name of Christ.

  12. rorynes191

    uhhhh ok i just realized something.

    Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    for the peoplle who believe in keeping the commandments to be saved would it not be a laugh to see how they take this verse? like if a catholic read it they would be like “oh shiz im not a true catholic unless i hate my father , mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters and myself” because they would read “if any man come to me” as being a true member of that church and they would read “disciple” as being a true member of that church. because of the whole Peter is the rock nonsense they do.

    i might have to give that a try sometime…

    which bible versions do catholic people use? NIV? are there others?

  13. rorynes191

    well there we have it then. thanks for that john. i laughed when you said Jesus was buried because i totally forgot about that…

    i see a funeral as just a burial, just with a different word. sort of how i see sex as just reproduction, just with a different word. or a person’s sex as just their gender, and again just with different words. in all these cases people have just taken things a bit too far to say the least.

    thats another thing ive learned is that peopel who teach works salvation will use other words instead of “works” so no one noticea. thanks for that too. i remember being mtold that we arent saved by works but we have to be obedient. i cant believe i didnt see that issue. makes me want to go up to these people and tell them what synonyms are.

    the idea of this sinful body i have rotting in the ground one day makes me happy. its just wants to commit sins and its kinda annoying. i know Jesus said that we will be hated because of Him and no doubt i feel like im behind enemy lines. at least i wont be fed to any lions or anything. its ironic isnt it that even though the rejection of Jesus grows stronger and larger as time has gone on, the barbaric physical torture of Christians has lessened to like nothing. the worst we have to worry about these days is verbal insults for professing our faith… at least in some countries. i know the story is different for other countries but ill stop because im ranting again.

    thanks again.

  14. rorynes191, you have some good questions. Some of them are above my “pay grade,” but I will address them the best I can.

    Are funerals biblical? I don’t really know. But, burial, which goes back to your original question, has some biblical connotations.

    First, God himself buried Moses.

    Deuteronomy 34:5-7: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

    Here, we have the living God burying Moses.

    Jesus was buried.

    1 Corinthians 15:4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    John 19:38-40: And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

    Joseph of Arimathaea is described as a secret disciple of Jesus, who seems to have come out that day, and I think Nicodemus is probably a believer by this point.

    Believers are buried with Christ in baptism (of the Holy Spirit).

    Colossians 2:12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    So, I don’t see the Bible having a negative view of burial, per se.

    Regarding funerals, they are a great opportunity to preach the gospel.

    However, many funerals are conducted and attended by people who mistakenly think that they can intercede for the dead person through prayer, but this is incorrect and a waste of time.

    Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Funerals are for people who either know Christ as Savior or who still have the potential to know Christ as Savior.

    “My view” is that Jesus was not making a sweeping, universal edict that only people who lack eternal life should bury others. Instead, I think He may have been contrasting the choice that a believer could make with the lack of choice that a nonbeliever has. That is, nothing that a non-believer does could carry any reward with it. It could also be a play on words along the lines of “you can’t really preach the gospel to a dead person, so follow me and preach it to live people.”

    I find it untenable to think that burial duty should be relegated to people who lack eternal life. There is no practical way to differentiate between people who have, and do not have eternal life.

    Last, I realize my analogy with the other passage was not perfect. I was trying to make the point that certain passages are difficult to understand, and on the surface may not seem to be in harmony with other scripture.

  15. rorynes191

    thanks john. im gonna take a page from your book now and put what youve said and then put my reply. i see how that is a lot better way to cover everything. ive seen so much of peopple like talking past eachother onsted of talking to eachother in my life…

    you: rorynes191, I don’t think we can take this as a doctrinal teaching that funerals aren’t for those who are saved.

    response: i suppose i am probably lacking enough conntext again, are there verses that teach funerals to be done? or something like that. i guess my question is are funerals biblical? i used to have a friend who said to me once that funerals are just a celebration of death… it was an interesting view.

    you: I think Jesus was telling this person to make a choice between following Him, or staying behind and burying his father, and then following Him. It was clearly Jesus’ will that this individual follow Him at once and preach the kingdom of God.

    response: yeh Jesus was tlking to that person specifically true. but does it mean that God doesnt see funerals as important? or like that its not one of His commandments?

    you: As to whether Jesus is referring literally to letting spiritually dead people bury the physically dead, I don’t really think so. I think it is more likely that he was saying that it wouldn’t make any difference which choice a spiritually dead person might make, because neither one had any rewardable value in heaven.

    reaponse: can a dead person bury a dead person? sorry i dont undertsand your view were they talking about rewards? by the way the whole rewards in Heaven thing … thanks so much for making me aware of that that rewards and gifts arent the same. i believed something different before i came to this site. So when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead its impossible for a physicalty dead person to bury another physically dead person, so wouldnt it have to mean spiritually dead? those are the only types of being dead that i know of haha.

    you: I think about it in a similar way to Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    If our mothers or fathers were to tell us doctrine (such as a false gospel) that conflicts with the word of God, we would be expected to take the word of God over their word.

    After all, we are told to love even our enemies, so this verse cannot literally mean to hate your relatives.

    response: yeh the word “hate” in that verse is why im skeptical spmetimes of how well the king james translartors did… because it literally comes off as Jesus saying: “to be my disciple you must hate everyone including yourself”. i agree it doesnt mean that seeing as Jesus alsso said to love our neighbour which sounds more like Jesus.

    im not sure i follow your comparison thogh with that verse and the ones in about dead burying the dead though.

    seems theres a lot i dont know… maybe i will learn Greek and Hebrew because sometimes i honestly cant trust the words used in the English translations like when it says “faith of Christ” instead of “faith in Christ” in some places. I saw some points made on this site of how faith isnt a gift and i agree the vcalvinists get that wrong so when it says “faith of Christ” its saying faith is of Christ which isnt right…

    sorry if im rambling i really appreciate your respnses.

  16. rorynes191, I don’t think we can take this as a doctrinal teaching that funerals aren’t for those who are saved.

    I think Jesus was telling this person to make a choice between following Him, or staying behind and burying his father, and then following Him. It was clearly Jesus’ will that this individual follow Him at once and preach the kingdom of God.

    I don’t think that means that each of us must abandon familial or vocational responsibilities to follow Jesus in discipleship, rather the meaning is not to place a higher priority on those things than on God.

    As to whether Jesus is referring literally to letting spiritually dead people bury the physically dead, I don’t really think so. I think it is more likely that he was saying that it wouldn’t make any difference which choice a spiritually dead person might make, because neither one had any rewardable value in heaven.

    I think about it in a similar way to Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    If our mothers or fathers were to tell us doctrine (such as a false gospel) that conflicts with the word of God, we would be expected to take the word of God over their word.

    After all, we are told to love even our enemies, so this verse cannot literally mean to hate your relatives.

  17. rorynes191

    i cant thank God enough for this website… i have got clairty i didnt even know i lacked! thank you all so much! i get the discipleship and salvation thing being differetn and cant be mixed.

    “And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:59-60‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    “And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    i have a question about Jesus’ reply to the guy who wanted to go and bury his own father before going with Him. Jesus said “let the dead bury their dead” in both of the accounts of this exchange. ive been thinking about it and it must mean let the spiritually dead bury the physically dead.

    is that right? should something like be taken as a doctrinal teaching? like funerals aren’t for those who are saved?

    just looking for some insight.

  18. rorynes191

    “the point is to keep talking to Him and keeping Him in the forefront of the things we do”

    absolutely holly. if anything repeating prayers or just praying regularly helps keep God as our primary focus in life. thanks for your comments too btw.

  19. Rorynes, you have a lot of good questions, questioning is good. A multitude of counsel (Biblically sound counsel) is always good.

    When you asked the question about prayer, I know sometimes I just leave it with Him and when it comes back to mind, I pray again. I think of the story of the widow and the unjust judge in Luke 18 and Jesus contrasts it to how much more God will avenge His elect who cry out to Him day and night, though He bears long with them.

    There’s a lot of different Scripture to compare regarding prayer, I really think the point is to keep talking to Him and keeping Him in the forefront of the things we do. I kind of look at Pro 3:5-6 as partly me praying for more things as I do them (or hopefully before).

  20. rorynes191

    but did God not hear Paul the first 2 times? i suppose it isnt important though compared to like SALVATION haha. thanks for your responses john. i got some reading to do it looks like.

  21. roryness191, a few thoughts:

    1. Obviously, no one can pray all of the time. I think this verse means that we are to make prayer a regular part of our lives, and not quit doing it.
    2. God not only hears us the first time, He knows what we are going to pray before we ever do, and the Holy Spirit assists us in prayer when we don’t know what to pray.
    3. Everything that happens, God either causes or allows. Unless scripture has specifically declared it, it is really impractical for us to know which is which.
    4. I can’t tell you how God will answer prayers, nor when, nor which prayers line up with His perfect will. I don’t think anyone else can either.

    Following are several church-age scriptural references that I think could add some insight:

    1 Corinthians 12:8-9: For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    The reason I included this passage was to make the point that Paul prayed for something multiple times until God told him what His decision was. I haven’t had that kind of clarity in my prayer life, but if I were to pray repeatedly for someone to be healed, and they died, I know that God has decided to not heal them.

    Romans 8:26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

    The reason I included this verse is to point out that even when we don’t know what to pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.

    Ephesians 6:18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

    The reason I included this verse is because it is part of the passage that describes putting on the full armor of God.

    roryness191, your thirst for knowledge is commendable. People may be able to help you with your understanding, but you are wise to be careful and avoid people who teach false gospels. Some of the things that they tell you may be correct, but Satan will try to use our curiosity and thirst for the truth to lure us back to his false gospels.

    We don’t offer an e-mail teaching ministry, and generally don’t share emails between our participants.

    I would advise you to read scripture, try to understand it in context, and ask God to help you understand His word more clearly and deeply. All true wisdom and discernment comes from God. Please be aware that even sound teachers do not know the meaning of everything in scripture. If they did, then we would have no need to pray for wisdom and discernment – we could just ask them.

    As you consider any interpretation of scripture, as it relates to grace, ask yourself three questions:

    1. Is it consistent with eternal life by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone?
    2. Is it consistent with eternal security?
    3. Is it consistent with assurance of eternal life, based on God’s promises alone (i.e., it is not internally-focused on changes in attitudes, behavior, etc.)?

    If the answer to all three questions is an unequivocal “yes” then an interpretation might be true. If the answer to any of the question is “no” then an interpretation cannot be true.

  22. Adeola Fayehun and Lewis Adame made mention of the cathedral. Various angles were looked at: Notre Dame as a symbol of Western civilization, Africans contributing to repair funds, chrislam’s chickens coming home to roost, connection with political turmoil due to corruption and the yellow vest movement that represents various factions. On Adeola’s page, I compared it to some dilapidated Pentecostal buildings that had recently collapsed in Nigeria. Several commenters got the point. This is one of these events that every country in the world notices.

  23. rorynes191

    I understand vain repetition on the level of like the rosary prayers and things to that level… but my point was if God did hear us the first time which is guaranteed, why pray the exact same prayer even a second time? its like saying “God i don’t trust that you heard me the first time”. does God answer a prayer based on how many times it is repeated? or just according to His will alone? any context on this that i may be missing would be helpful.

    1 Thessalonians 5:17: Pray without ceasing.

    okay, so its impossible to pray without ceasing because we all have to sleep firstly. what was your point in posting that verse? is there context im missing here?

    its like when works for salvation people teach that stuff. one of the things i learned here is the fact that were not perfect in any of our works. that Isaiah verse hit me hard. anyways, when people teach that good works alone get someone to Heaven like pretty much every religion does they are teaching to live perfectly and never sin again ever. its impossible because we will all stumble daily at best.

    or the people who teach you can lose salvation by sinning, but id ask them exactly how many sins until that happens? or how many good works exactly must someone do before they are saved, for the works only people.

    i have a lot of questions im sorry but i dont know who else to ask… the things ive learned here have pretty much torn down all of my belief system that i had but i dont want to reject what makes sense just for my own comfort…

    i dont want to divert away from your goal on this site is there anyone who i could speak to on email or something? i just wanna learn but now i dont trust anyone besdies people here. wow… i was using gotquestions for ages and who knows what i was taught by them or if im even awaree of it.

  24. chas, I agree there is an intentional narrative to hide what is happening. And, those who are managing the narrative are either not able, nor willing to differentiate between the tenets of the various groups claiming the name of Christianity.

  25. From what I’ve seen, the term “Easter Worshippers” is a term used deliberately by many left-wing politicians to avoid using the word “Christian” when referring to the attacks in Sri Lanka and other attacks on Christians over the Easter holidays. The intent is to avoid drawing attention to the fact that Christians–real or institutional–are being targeted by Islam. Iow, it’s part of the overall strategy of avoiding the truth about Islam’s militant goals. The stories about Notre Dame cathedral have been worded for the same purpose. So it’s not about Christians, it’s about Islam. I’ve avoided getting into the political discussions I’ve seen about all these incidents because the people being attacked are often Catholics, and the Catholic vs. Christian dichotomy is not appreciated by most people on those sites.

  26. Jason, many of the press wouldn’t know any difference. And, yeah, “Easter worshippers” isn’t very respectful.

  27. It was pretty condescending to be referred to as “Easter worshipers” by the biased media. They made no distinction between lordship fakeness and grace genuineness.

  28. roryness191, I don’t think we have to pray for something daily, nor do I think that praying for something frequently,even daily is vain repetition.

    1 Thessalonians 5:17: Pray without ceasing.

    One would need to be very prolific to avoid repeating perceived needs.

    For example, my son needs a job. We pray about that frequently. We will continue to.

  29. thanks for the answer. also i wonder if when we pray to God for a request of something, do we have to keep praying it daily? didn’t God hear us the first time? at what point does a prayer become vain repetition?

  30. rorynes191, I have never really thought about the Bible verses having to do with making joyful music to be proof of scripture being the word of God. In the case of any prophetic scripture that mentions music, I would say that fulfilled prophecy and signs pointing to the fulfillment of prophecy are proof of scripture being the word of God.

    I think of these verses having to do with making joyful noise unto the Lord, rather than talking about music in general.

    Having said that, I don’t think scripture depicts drums as universally satanic. Further, I don’t see scripture prohibiting music that is not worship-oriented.

    We had a thread many years ago on the topic of music, and found the opinions of our readers varied as to what music they thought was OK and what they didn’t.

    We were concerned that the topic was becoming divisive and we moved the conversation back to more productive topics having to do with the primary mission of this ministry, which is to advance and defend the gospel.

    I am OK with anyone commenting specifically as to whether scripture that mentions music helps establish the Bible as the word of God, but I would ask that we avoid comments that address rules people have set for themselves as to what kind of music they listen to, or that suggest or prescribe for others what they should listen to.

  31. thanks for the replies eveyone.

    if i could bring up an entirely different topic, ive looked at the many different proofs of the bible being God’s Word. theres a lot of them to say the least. one i havent seen pointed out though is

    “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”
    ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:19‬

    “Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.”
    ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭23:16‬

    “For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.”
    ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:3

    these verses here talk about musical melody in a positive light. look at all the songs that are considerd successful out there. they in my opinion all have great catchy memorable melodies carrying them. its minor i guess but it could be another proof to see.

    i have been writing music for about 9 years and have come to see that a melody can make or break a song.

    thoughts? if any?

    i also have heard from some places that drums are Satanic… is that mentioned anywhere in the bible?

    the thing is is that i like certain genres of music that arent i guess “Christian”… but based on what? they’re just sounds, no?

  32. Rory – In Romans 5 it uses both gift and free gift, and I agree with John, an emphasis that a gift is given freely. I think on the passage in James 1:17-19, God gives only good and perfect gifts. And eternal life is His promise, and part of an unconditional covenant, in which God only swore by Himself. And God is perfect, and not a man that He should lie, so there is nothing and no one that can break that covenant.

    Eternal life is freely given, and must be freely received (without conditions).

    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev 22:17

    10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. John 4:10-14

  33. Exactly

  34. Jason, that is an interesting point. A gift may be free to the recipient, but ultimately someone has paid.

  35. Political conservatism can actually be a disadvantage in some ways, lol. You mean to tell me that some lunches are free?

  36. rorynes191, I don’t really know. And, I definitely don’t know Hebrew or Greek.

    I think it may be that He was trying to make it crystal clear by using “free gift.”

    Either way, I don’t think most people who have Greek as their mother tongue believe the gospel.

  37. Why would God use “free gift” and only use “gift” in other places? I wish i could read Hebrew and Greek so i could just read the original languages

  38. rorynes191, sometimes “free” and “gift” are used together in scripture (see Romans 5:15-18).

    However, we have featured an article on “Gotquestions.com” that discusses its false doctrine. That site is bad news. Please see below:


  39. so their very question is kinda deceiving? its like asking “what is an earned reward?” in that they answer their own question before even starting the article itself

  40. rorynes191, agree – grace is by definition free.

  41. good article. thats what i mean! its like that and everything in the world is gotten by doing works that its hard to understand the greatest thing a person can ever receive requires no works at all.

    i looked up “free grace” on gotquestions.com and the article is titled “what is free grace?”. grace is by definition free i think.

  42. rorynes191, attacking the definition of “gift” is part of the attack on the gospel.

    You might like an article on that topic linked below:


  43. On the Catholicism thing. After reading through a lot of this website I believe I have found clarity on some important issues. thanks for that.

    ever notice that the whole Santa thing is aimed at young children and teaches: “do good works and be rewarded with gifts”. maybe that idea carries with a lot of people into adulthood?

  44. Regarding Phil’s comment, he’s described Roman Catholicism exactly. And Catholics agree, reluctantly. When I pointed out in an online forum that RC-ism teaches salvation by faith-plus-works, a Catholic insisted I was wrong, then laid out the whole RC rationale for sacraments, papal authority, good works and all of it. I replied, “So what you’re saying is, we can’t work our way to heaven by ourselves, but Jesus died to enable us to work our way to heaven.” He replied, “Well, that’s an interesting way of putting it…” and then went on to state the essence of what I’d said as his belief, in different words, of course.

    LS-ers love to play with words.

  45. Phil, excellent comment!

  46. I might add that the disciple in the film RISEN did not put conditions (like LS’ers do) on salvation. He simply said, unequivocally, that Christ’s rising from the dead literally meant he has eternal life.
    Through the centuries supposed Christian teachers, preachers, priests, bishops, popes,scholars, and other leaders who should know better have heaped conditions on eternal salvation such as; Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection PLUS “repentance” from all sins and a changed life…..In other words, their doctrine of Christ is, he died and rose to enable you to change your life so you would become savable and “fit” for heaven.

  47. Phil, that would be a good idea.

    Romans 4:25: Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

  48. One recent film got it right. In the movie “RISEN” a high ranking Roman officer questions one of Christ’s disciples as to the whereabouts of Jesus’ body after his crucifixion. The disciple tells the Roman officer joyfully that Jesus has risen from the dead.. The Roman asks him, “and what does that mean to you?” The disciple replies, “it means that I have eternal life!”

    I wish they would universally change this pagan name “Easter” to Resurrection Day.

  49. rorynes191, if you haven’t already checked it out, you might like to read “The Gospel” booklet by Ron Shea.

    It is linked below:

    Click to access English-Display-Pkg-2014.pdf

  50. rorynes191

    Glad you are joining us. I remember when I found this website. Because of some of the authors people had recommended to me, Piper, MacArthur, Spurgeon, A.W. Pink, etc. and the sinkhole I had started to go into, I stopped reading much of men. I didn’t yet know what Calvinism and lordship were, although I knew things weren’t making sense either at some places.

    From time to time I was researching certain passages and this site came up a few times in the searches. I realized that there were others that were teaching the truth of His Word without just teaching live how you want (as others sometimes accuse us of).

    One thing I did learn as I just immersed in the Scriptures before other things is that I was seeing liberty and Grace. Not a liberty to sin that grace should abound, but an understanding of walking in the Spirit. His Word will light up our path, keep us from sinning, give us wisdom, cleanse us, increase our faith. So I really ‘saw’ the John 13 footwashing as a practical help in the body to help wash each other with His Word. Growing in grace and truth together. Warning the sheep about the ravening wolves. Then John 21:15-17, if we love Him, we’ll feed/tend His sheep.

    Hope you’ll continue looking into what is said here, I think you’ll find, there is no advocating for continuing in sin, but an understanding that God’s way is perfection, not even one lie. So we can’t turn from sin as a requirement of receiving eternal life, because we’d have to perfectly turn from each one and we just aren’t capable. Along with that, it is a work (Jonah 3:10 and Numbers 5:6-7). Maybe a good one, but not one we can use to acquire or keep eternal life. His requirement and the will of the Father is that we believe on the One He sent (John 6:28-29, 39-40).

    In Christ, Holly

  51. Preston, it’s great to hear from you.

    You’re right – I do get writer’s block from time to time.

  52. Preston Greene

    Hey John.

    Jut saying “hi”. Never miss your stuff. Thought you had some writers block for a while there. I get it all the time. 🙂

  53. rorynes191, it is incompatible to believe that Jesus paid for one’s sins, and yet think that isn’t enough. That is the central issue with Lordship “salvation.” It is faith in Christ plus one’s own works for eternal life. And, if Jesus is enough for eternal life, then one’s works aren’t necessary for eternal life.

  54. i understand thanks for the reply. it doesnt make much sense to me to believe Jesus paid for all our sins but also believe that isnt enough. ill keep reading throgg the site.

  55. rorynes191, thanks for your comment.

    The reason that we have such a different view of the Bible than what you may have seen elsewhere, is that many religions claiming the name of Christ believe that He is necessary for eternal life, but that He is not enough. So, they are focused on looking inward for evidence of life change to establish, or corroborate that someone has received eternal life.

    There is not a “license to sin view here.” The Bible is clear that it is not God’s will that Christians live sinful lifestyles, and we do not advocate that they do.

    However, the Bible is also clear that turning from sin is not necessary for a person to receive eternal life, nor is turning from sin, or even sinning less, a necessary consequence of someone having received eternal life. If it were a necessary consequence, it would be a requirement.

    I hope that helps.

  56. found this website recently… you make a lot of sense i’ve enjoyed reading the articles and comments here. though why is it such a different view of the bible than pretty much everywhere else ive been to? it seems like a license to sin type view here but i see you don’t want people to live sinfully. ill take a look at the difficult verses page

  57. Holly, thanks. I’m continuing to pray for you, Jason, and your families.

  58. Kerin, Chas, John, I hope you had a good time of remembrance of His resurrection, however you may celebrate it. I decided to also do communion with the family. I had all there except my daughter and her husband from Colorado. It was very moving. But then His Word is always moving to me.

    God bless you all this week.

  59. I loved this article John, you nailed the personalities. The Careless Compromiser speaks to me, as so many in my life through their compromise, caused me to stumble and also rendered me ineffective, my gospel was another. Angers me when people see it as ‘unity’, but I know we can mark and avoid them. I do pray for them, but they need gone out of the vocabulary of pastors. They need not be quoted or recommended. They need marked and avoided.

    You did a really good job, what an analogy, what truth… they will not put all their eggs in one basket.

  60. Kerin, its good to hear from you.

    We are glad that you find this site to be a blessing.

  61. Thank you for this wonderful and timely article. We over here in the land down under can’t even quote from the bible it seems, without being persecuted by those wanting to squash the right of free speech of Christian’s. So blessed by this site, I pray that your endeavours to spread the Gospel through your expreacherman site really helps those looking for the truth here in Australia, (the ravening wolves are everywhere I look, and seems to be growing, I think Mary finds the same thing, from what I have read in her posts. God bless you. Kerin

  62. Chas, I know what you mean about political sites. They can feature lots of false doctrine by a “who’s who” of well-known “preacherticians.”

    Like you, I don’t really believe that this was founded as a Christian nation. Whatever the prevailing popular religion of the time was likely just as errant as the popular religion of our time.

    I am thankful for this site and the people who come here who have a heart for the gospel.

  63. Great message, johninnc, and one that is blessedly “out of step” with so many of the “gospel” messages being posted this morning.

    I was just looking over the comments in an Easter thread on a conservative news blog I frequent (for news, not for wisdom) that has several (supposed) Christians as regular article writers. One of them wrote about the Resurrection, and “what it must have been like” for the people in Jerusalem that day. Speaking of Jesus, he wrote:

    “According to this carpenter’s son from Nazareth, you have to confess your sins, and ask the Great I am, for forgiveness.”

    Iow, lordship “salvation” on full display. And naturally, his article was applauded by over a dozen respondents, including one Catholic who proudly announced that he had “just got back from Easter Mass.” Whoopie-doo.

    It being a political news blog, there were also the obligatory references to George Washington’s supposed Christian faith, with a couple of out-of-context quotes from him about God such as “the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors” etc. I’ve been around the barn with that particular writer more than once about the “faith” of the founding fathers; how–for several key individuals–it was largely rooted in Freemasonry, Deism (GW’s own pastor believed GW to be a deist), and 18th Century Churchianity, but he’s still aboard the “USA was founded as a Christian Nation” train. I didn’t know what his specific views on the requirement for salvation are, but I do now, and somehow it doesn’t surprise me; classic “evangelical” LS.

    The article made me angry with it’s misrepresentation of the Gospel, but I’m still not good at knowing righteous indignation from my own argumentative impulses, so I haven’t posted in the thread. Still praying about it.

    Nevertheless, the false “gospel” soup is deep and thick on the webtoobs today. It’s so good to have this place, where the real Gospel is held high.

We appreciate you. Please leave a reply & subscribe to our Web site and comments using check boxes below,

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s