By Jack Weaver (FBC Winter ’71)
This article should not have to be written and it pains me greatly to do so — but the truth must be told.
Florida Bible College (FBC) is my theological Alma Mater (December 1971) and was one of the greatest Grace Bible Colleges ever founded. Recently however, some well meaning alumni have decided to re-start the college after it has been off the map for many years in a state of legal closure.
The Board of Florida Bible College Alumni Association (FBCAA) in their desire to re-start FBC seems to be taking a downward spiral. If we check out the web site of the church which will house the new FBC campus home, (the Circle Community Christian Church (CCC)) we will see why. Unless CCC scrubs the site due to pressure, you will see a big splash-page advertisement promoting the new Billy Graham program, “My Hope For America.” Graham’s program promotes the same message he preached for 50 years, a pernicious “repent of sins for salvation”, “turn from sin ‘salvation'” and a “commitment ‘salvation’ (probation)“ messages. NONE of these are the Biblical Gospel of God’s Grace. It is nothing more than the modern iteration of a Biblically condemned “works” message. Such messages (adding works to God’s Grace) and the person or group promoting it are accursed (i.e. banned) according to God’s Word. (Galatians 1:8-9)
In my note on 11/7/13 to Circle Community Church Pastor Ron Hoffmann (an FBCAA Board members), I asked for an explanation as to why he would promote Billy Graham and his false messages on his church web site. I have not heard from him as of today.
Here is the main text of my message to Pastor Hoffmann explaining my background with and interest in the original Florida Bible College in Hollywood, FL:
Pastor Hoffmann,I received the notice that FBC will be re-started in your church soon.
A little of my personal History, FYI:
- Trusted Christ as my Savior at an FBC Christmas Concert, Grove Community church, December 15, 1964.
- Served as a Deacon at Grove for many years and then an Elder at Grove and Florida Bible Church when we moved to Hollywood.
- Served on the Board of Directors of FBC Hollywood, FL for several years in.
- I graduated FBC, Hollywood, December, 1971.
- Founded Palmetto Bible Church from which I am now retired at age 84.
I visited your CCC web site and frankly am appalled that your church, as a sponsor of the “new FBC,” would support and advertise an association with Billy Graham and his organization. Graham is known for his ecumenical evangelism, his false “turn from sin salvation” message, his cooperation and association with false teachers, churches and apostates. Graham Videos With Robert Schuller:
Billy Graham Denies Jesus Is The ONLY WAY To The FatherRobert Schuller And Billy Graham Speaking Wide Acceptance
If your church and FBC are running in this kind of Billy Graham crowd, their teaching and affiliation for expediency or whatever reason, you have departed from every vestige of free Grace teaching by which FBC was founded, existed and taught for years.
~~End of note to Hoffmann~~~~
There is NO assurance of Eternal Life in the Billy Graham message.
In contrast to the message at CCC/FBCAA, our friend Dr. Yankee Arnold and his church (formerly Dr. Hank Lindstrom’s Calvary Community Church in Tampa, FL), have already started classes for the officially incorporated Florida Bible College of Tampa. This is a Biblically sound Grace Bible college.
It is sad to see the old FBC, once a Torch of Grace, shining the Gospel Light into a dark world, surrender to the “works” message of Graham. (through the CCC/FBCAA).
With thousands of compromising seminaries and Bible colleges teaching the Lordship “salvation” lie, why would anyone desire to multiply that number with just one more?
We can only pray that the the FBCAA Board will seek God’s Word and His Will, wake up to the Truth of God’s Grace and reject all vestiges of the terrible, false Lordship “salvation” message of Billy Graham and his ilk. Find out (Lordship Salvation Defined)
A few days ago I communicated by email with another of the FBCAA Board members who assured me he would “bring it up in the next Board meeting.” He did not express any concern one way or the other over the CCC/Graham website connection except to say, “Jack, I personally do not consider Billy Graham accurate or clear on the Gospel. Your question was to the board and I do not have authority to answer for them without consulting them.”
I pray for the general world-wide population of Florida Bible College’s Alumni — that they will be discerning and not be taken in by the FBCAA Board, who seem to exhibit little discernment in this case. I likewise pray that if this is all nothing more that a terrible error in judgment by the FBCAA Board and CCC, they will admit and correct it quickly.
ADDENDUM I: I just visited the CCC web site and the Graham splash screen has been scrubbed. That is why I saved a screen-shot of the CCC web site (above). There was no explanation why it was scrubbed. We will wait for either CCC or FBCAA to offer an explanation. (Jack)
ADDENDUM II: OOOOPS. One of our alert readers, D. Taylor reports that though the splash screen was scrubbed, the web page at CCC/FBCAA is still encouraging their members to attend the Graham presentation — and they invite their friends to attend so they can learn to share their faith. Billy Graham is a terrible example and certainly NOT an example of Biblical soul winning!!! We would encourage someone from both organizations, CCC/FBCAA to drop by and explain. (Jack)
Notes From A Retired Preacher 
Holly, I have seen that too. When people compromise with those who teach false gospels they may be growing their ministries, but OT is. It furthering the gospel.
I notice a lot of people are compromising with people like the BGEA or his son Franklin. Their ‘gospel’ has never been the same, other than one common denominator of confusing and false. People want to grow their ministries so I guess they’re willing to join hands with an organization with a false gospel with no warning, and also not calling out the other false gospel. Biblical admonitions are not welcomed, they will do what they want to do because it ‘furthers the gospel’. They often cite Paul and the philosophers on Mars Hill without noting he let them know what they believed was false and called them out on it, told them they needed to repent, then gave them the truth.
I’m thankful for those who will not compromise in the name of growing their ‘ministry’.
Linda, you are right. LS does seem to be just about everywhere. And even though we are saved, we will still sin until we are taken to be with the Lord and will no longer have a sin nature. This is what the LS’rs don’t understand.
Also even churches that say in their SOF that salvation is by grace alone and by simple faith may actually have an underlying meaning of faith to include a willingness to change ones life to goodness and repent of sins.
Awesome
At Florida Bible College of Tampa (NOTE – NOT the school Jack criticized – one he recommended, under the leadership of Ralph “Yankee” Arnold), NOW (2018) all our classes are available both on campus, and on-line. View the schedule of available ourses online at http://www.floridabiblecollege.us, or contact Bob Gilbert, Registrar (FBC Hollywood, 1975) at registrar@floridabiblecollege.us.
Linda, welcome and thanks for your comment.
I definitely won’t compromise with an SBC church, but know many who do.
And, I have prayed that your brother in law will remain alert to the dangers of compromise.
This breaks my heart. Lordship Salvation is everywhere. The church where I was saved preached the right way. How can anyone who has read the Bible not see that we are born sinners and we will remain sinners until we no longer live in this flesh. When we meet Jesus in the air at the Rapture, whether in our bodies or in Heaven, where we have our earthly bodies become immortal and we live forever with Him in Heaven, then (and only then) will we no longer have the sin nature we were born with.
We are having so much trouble finding a church that preaches the simple gospel. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and that we need a Savior. Jesus shed blood on the cross covers our sin and if we accept His free gift of salvation that He made there, we can be with Him forever. We still have our sin nature until we die. The Holy Spirit lives within us and will until our death. The only works that we can do are allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us
Ah, but you know this. I have friends that have compromised and go to a Southern Baptist Church. We can not sit under the lie.
Anyway. My brother in law is a graduate from FBC. His mentor was Dr. Cameron. He has been asked to work with satellite churches of the new FBC. He is a salvation by grace only kind of guy. I feel positive that he does not know this.
His name is Clayton Hampton. Please look him up. He lives in Locust Grove, GA. He needs to hear this before he gets too involved. I urge you to call him.
Sam, I apologize, after reading your comment it did looked hooked together. And I concuded that you had put Hank And Yankee in with the churches that you both had attended, preaching LS. I see now that this was not the case. Again I apologize to you. I pray you will forgive me for jumping to conclusions.
Trina – yes, you misunderstood sam, I also know sam, and it is a positive for them both, not the other way around 🙂 It maybe was unfortunate it looked hooked together when it was not.
Trina, I don’t want to speak for Sam, but I’m pretty sure he was saying that both Hank and Yankee are sound Biblical teachers. I think he was saying that some of the local churches that he had attended were LS. In other words, he was contrasting the sound messages preached by Hank and Yankee with the unsound messages being preached at his local churches.
Sam,
You commented, that you have listened to Hank and Yankee
for several years before he passed, but I still listen to his archived programs; also listen to Yankee. I’ve been in three churches in the last ten years, and unfortunately they all are lordship salvation churches.
I have known both of these men, Yankee I have known all my life, and I’m appalled that you would every say such a thing, that they teach lordship salvation. Any sermon, if you only listened just once would know that is NOT true. You need to read his book, The Gospel Driven Man.
Next to Ray Stanford, this man is one of the biggest soul winners and Gospel Driven Men I have ever meant.
I’ve heard some things against him, people have said, but never in my life, that he teaches LS.
Thanks for the response Bob
Presently, classes offered online are limited to Layman’s Institute level courses – good information – check out
We expect to put the Personal Evangelism and three other day-school courses online in the course of the next year – our target date is January, 2015. Thereafter, we should be adding to our on-line course offerings until the entire degree program is available online.
Thanks for explaining Jack and Bob.
Is their online schooling or only local? I would love to be sent some info, thanks!
Thanks, Jack! We appreciate your prayers.
Bob,
Thanks for your explanation. As you can see, the confusion over the names remains. I pray that many of the general at large Alumni who may be ignorant of the controversy will understand the problem and opt for FBC Tampa..
The Board of the FBCAA (old FBC Alumni Association) may be Brothers and friends but there are a couple on the board who I would not recommend as advisers or teachers in any Bible College environment.
We will pray for Florida Bible College of Tampa.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
(Bob Gilbert wrote this at the request of Jack Weaver)
Dr. Ralph “Yankee” Arnold became pastor of Calvary Community Church of Tampa some time after the home-going of Dr. Hank Lindstrom (he passed in October of 2008), by the persistent efforts of the people of Calvary (he was quite happy with his ministry before he moved to Tampa).
The Lord moved on the hearts of Yankee and his board of church elders (Dr. Jim Polson and Mr. Steve Yant) to start a Bible college, as Dr. Lindstrom, and indeed, as Dr. Arnold had done before. The church facility in Tampa was debt-free, and Dr. Lindstrom had built, some twenty-five years ago, for the college, a multi-purpose gymnasium-kitchen-classroom building that had long been under-utilized.
When Dr. Lindstrom had his college, it was called Tampa Bay Bible College. Which would have been a fine name for the proposed new college, except that it was in current use by another religious group.
Dr. Arnold and the elders presented to the church the idea of starting a new college, and calling it Florida Bible College of Tampa, and the church thought it was a great idea. The wheels began to grind – Incorporation was accomplished August 17, 2012.
Sometime after this, the board of the FBC Alumni Association solicited Dr. Arnold to make his new college the college they wanted to start. His agreement came only after that board agreed that he would have power to built the controlling board, and veto any proposed board members he was not comfortable with. He also had agreement, initially, that his doctrinal statement would be accepted and agreed to by all board members, staff members and administration members of the new college. ll this was agreed to by the FBCAA board, initially.
When Dr. Arnold returned to the FBCAA board his list of acceptable board members, the agreement was that the FBCAA would solicit that list of men and women to see if they would be will to serve as board members. Time passed, and no solicitations went out. Some communications passed between members of the FBCAA board and Dr. Arnold, with less that complete agreement about some he would not have serve on the college board, and also on some points of the doctrinal statement. By the time of the FBCAA Reunion in Philadelphia, in fall of 2102, the FBCAA had withdrawn their support of Dr. Arnold’s work, still had him speak at the Reunion, but asked him to NOT MENTION the new college in Tampa. Dr. Arnold complied with the request, and spoke, as I recall (I was there) very well.
At the FBCAA general meeting in Philadelphia, a vote was called for asking Dr. Arnold to “return the name” to the control of the Alumni Association. (It was stated in the meeting and later published that the vote was unanimous – I was there – it was NOT unanimous). This was painful to Dr. Arnold.
Dr. Arnold and I talked briefly about the new college at the reunion, and by telephone, after. He was going about building his board, adding to it by November of 2012, Mr. George Tripp, a local businessman (his son has a law firm) who had served with Dr. Lindstrom, Dr. David Peterson, long pastor of First Baptist Church of Land O Lakes, FBC alumni, and Mr. Brian Anderson, another FBC alumni/local businessman.
In early November I was designated the Registrar of the new college, and set to work writing the catalog, and handbook, and getting ready for day class kick-off in the Fall of 2013.
An open house for selected men was held in November, 2012, at which time Rev. Lee Patton, pastor in San Antonio, and FBC alumni, came on to the board. Mr. Merle Arnold, Yankee’s brother, was added to the National Advisory board (informal decision was made that no family should have two members on the controlling board).
We had an open house for potential students in April of 2013, and our first application in hand when that weekend ended.
We started day classes with six registered students; one fell away immediately, but three full-time and two part time finished the first semester. In January of 2014, we added a new full-time student, and so finished the first year.
We register our students tomorrow for the Fall, 2014 semester – and expect at this time ten (10) full-time students. All four from last year are returning; We have a new young man in the boys dorm, and for the first time a girls dorm room with three young ladies in it. And three local students who will live at home.
Reflecting back on the NAME question – the FBCAA board members, in April or May of this year, called to APOLOGIZE for the hurt they had caused Dr. Arnold, and allowed that he could carry their apology publicly to the church, as well.
The church had voted to allow the elders and pastor to go ahead with the formation of Florida Bible College of Tampa BEFORE there was any contact between the FBCAA and Dr. Arnold.
WE HOPE that the Lord will raise up another great work under the leadership that has been put together by FBC, Inc, at Circle Community Church. These are our friends, our brothers, both in ministry and personally.
We will continue with the direction God has given us: the King James Bible, the old doctrinal statement with the plain statement on “repentance”, a godly controlling board in agreement with each other and Dr. Arnold about the gospel, soul winning, and the rest of the doctrinal statement. We believe and teach the Youth Ranch model still works well for reaching and discipling young people and their families. Tampa Youth Ranch is fired up, and the weekly soul-winning they do is wonderful to watch.
Call (or email) me if you have any questions. Bob Gilbert
Registrar@FloridaBibleCollege.US
850-227-5325
Curtis,
The name thing is a long story. I’ll try to get Registrar Bob Gilbert to drop by and answer.
There IS a distinct difference.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
what is confusing to me is both collages using the same name
Holly,
Good question. The FBC reported here in this negative article is still trying to start. Unfortunately they have a couple of folks on their Board who have promoted false teachers and doctrine. A lot of FBC Alumni and some on the Board are being fooled.
However the newer and better iteration of FBC is:
Florida Bible College of Tampa
Yankee Arnold is President and Bob Gilbert, Registrar. It occupies the facilities built by Hank Lindstrom as the old Tampa Bay Bible College. We would highly recommend FBC of Tampa over the other.
Here is the link to the better choice, FBC of Tanpa site:
http://www.floridabiblecollege.us/
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Whatever happened here with Florida Bible? I have been receiving emails, and am wondering if this is a separate group or what exactly is going on?
No, I don’t see much difference either John, it just goes to show how vigilant. It’s good to know the exact errors, for some reason I thought there was also more. But it makes sense now why back then, I hadn’t see much of the “P” discussed”.
Every day, we need to prove all things, but it sure is good when someone else knows and pinpoints the error so that we can not waste time or even wrongly lead another there. When someone’s error is the gospel, whether front, back or top loaded, I really believe they must be marked and avoided. A constant reminder as I have shared ones I should not have before, thank the Lord we have the body and we watch out for each other. Thank you again John!
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Pet 5:8-11
Holly, Zeller has a whole body of material that embraces perseverance of the saints theology.
I don’t see much difference between front-door LS (turn from sins for salvation) or back-door LS (perseverance of the saints). They both teach salvation by works, either directly, or by implication.
I have seen at least 9 installments of Zeller’s articles published in a popular grace-oriented journal, without any caveat.
You know it’s one thing when they get something outside of the gospel wrong, and people disagree and are able to discuss it with the Word, but when the gospel is wrong, they cannot promote the man, period as far as I can see in God’s Word.
George Zeller, would explain to me again, because I have promoted his stuff on reformation dangers, his site is well set up for those types of info, and Jack mentioned to me quite some time ago he had some errors, some of you say he is Lordship? Seems like he avoid the P in Tulip if I recall correctly. Is he on Wiki? I haven’t done further research or my memory has not kept it straight.
Holly and Jack, I agree that it is compromise to advertise Billy Graham without sufficient warning.
Unfortunately, I see the same thing happening with favorable references to Charles Spurgeon, George Zeller, etc. by people who should know better.
If Circle Church or the fledgling FBC wish to promote Graham, they should put in writing how Graham’s false gospel differs from the gospel of Christ and post that to their website in close proximity to the Graham promotion.
If they would like an example of what that would look like, they could draw from the following:
Makes me wonder if we see in the Scriptures, when we are to have nothing to do with those who don’t abide in the doctrine of Christ, how they can justify capitalizing on this, without a big WARNING, WARNING, WARNING slapped in red over the advertisement.
I am sure that would not go well as beloved BG is by secular people and church members alike. How long does this take for them to respond?
Holly,
Yes that is the one…
Their justification was that the Pastor of the host church (Ron Hofmann) advertised BG so he could capitalize on the publicity and the BG draw thus bringing new folks into his church. ????
THAT is compromise to me.
One of the concerned Board members is supposed to contact me soon with further answers to some new issues I brought up involving another Florida Bible College Board member.
In case I do not hear from him soon, I will publish the issues/facts and see if anyone will answer them.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Is this the same Florida Bible College you are speaking of Jack? Have they answered yet why they would have put Billy Graham on their website?
https://www.facebook.com/FloridaBibleCollege
Jackson, I have come to know a few people with aspergers, thank you for sharing some of your challenges that also seem to be a unique gift. May God bless you.
I think many of us here have experienced doubts because of this kind of errant and advisory teaching the Reformed teaching brings. Great to have you here with us. I am praying with John (and others I am sure) for you. In Christ’s love.
Thanks for that information, Jackson. I’m not as Aspie, but I’ve done more than my fair share of over thinking and dwelling on things in my day, even after getting saved over 20 years ago. But I too got to the point where I simply had to search and search and search to find a clear understanding about what the Bible has to say about salvation and this blog was a MAJOR contributing factor in helping me understand a clear gospel message.
I went through the same thing where I still experienced doubts but that too is “coming less and less” as you say.
Jackson, I am familiar with Aspergers syndrome, as my wife’s teenage nephew has it. I also have a somewhat obsessive personality.
You have the right Biblical view of God’s way of salvation, and you have wisely chosen to believe God word instead of believing the legions of people that teach false gospels.
Satan can’t stand it when people accept Christ as Savior, because he has lost the opportunity to keep them blinded to the truth. But, that doesn’t prevent him from attacking us as believers. Satan tries to cause doubt in believers to distract us and rob us of the joy and assurance of eternal life. We need the full armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-17) to protect ourselves from the wiles of the Devil.
I have prayed that you will continue to grow in the knowledge of grace.
Ephesians 6:10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
@jimfloyd12 and @hollysgarcia
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement! Basically I got into this largely because I have Asperger’s syndrone. We are called “Aspies” for short. Asperger’s syndrone is a type of autism, and is on the autism spectrum.
How this is related is that Aspies are extremely obsessive. We get into our “special interests” and want to talk on and on about them and think about them all the time. These can be anything from Aspie to Aspie. One may be obsessed with tin cans, another may be obsessed with snakes (which is one of my special interests).
I used to go to a church that taught MacArthur’s view of the gospel, and the pastor actually graduated from Master’s.
Now I’m in college, and eventually, due to this and another church that was teaching a “lose-your-salvation” gospel (in contrast to the no more comforting “prove-you-never-had-it” gospel of the previous church), I became obsessed with trying to figure out what the Bible said about salvation. I also had some very unpleasant encounters with street preachers who told me I was on my way to hell, and this caused me extreme stress.
I have come to conclusion that God’s grace truly is free, and that I don’t have to be up late and have panic attacks (known as “sensory” overloads) relating to whether I’m saved or not. I believe that God sent His perfect Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for my sins, and that he was buried and rose again the third day. And that he offers eternal life as a free gift to anyone who will simply believe on Him for it. Once saved, always saved!
Once in a while I still experience doubts but that is coming less and less, and other than Satan, I think the only other reason is because I’m so obsessive compulsive, and can be sure of something one moment, and unsure the next, etc. God is helping me with that though.
Holly,
On FaceBook. FBCAA Discussion Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/176638242408871/?ref=br_tf
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
By the way, what is the FBCAA Official Discussion Board? Is that on their own home page?
Mary, thanks for your comments.
I am aware of the process outlined in Matthew 18:15-17, but don’t know how to go about it with respect to people teaching false gospels.
I don’t remember Paul going to meet with the Judaizers. I think if someone publicly preaches a false gospel, he must be publicly repudiated.
Mary, I appreciate your thoughts on Matthew 18, but I do not read that Scripture to be applicable to this situation.
I think most people miss the qualifier in that passage (not lecturing honestly, just clarifying), “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee“….
This is not a sin against Jack alone, where Jack would go to the man in private.
This is an opening of the sheep pen to wolves, by the Shepherd’s entrusted with flocks. Do we love Him? We will feed His sheep. Does a shepherd lay out the feed for his sheep, point to the food laying right next to the pile of poison and not say to the sheep, “DO NOT EAT THAT POISON!! STAY AWAY!!
Where was this disclaimer as Bils? pointed to a clearer gospel? Was there one? And with all love and respect in Him, what is a clearer gospel? Is it clear or just clearer?
How did Billy Graham grow to be so widely loved and respected if respected and trusted shepherds didn’t not open the doors of the sheep pen to the wolves?
This may sound dramatic to you or others, but I want to weep as I see those who have trespassed into error, leading their flock to believe that evil is good, and the one who has done it stays silent as others defend him. He may very well be a wonderful man. Then please encourage him, please, to come out and clarify that he in no way, shape or form is giving Billy Graham’s false message any credibility.
In His love and in love for the lost, to be set free by the truth, and not blinded by the enemy still…
Dear Mary (Murphy),
Thanks again for your comments. prayers for me and the memories of the old Palmetto Youth Ranch. Lots of kids trusted Christ as Savior in that home. I certainly do remember your Mom, Margaret so please give her our love and thanks for her service to the Lord and old FBC.
I must say that you may have some valid points but we disagree on the issue of separation. I will let some of my discerning commenters kindly discuss those points with you.
Board member Ed Williamson (I’ve known of him since he and Helen were FBC freshmen I believe) called yesterday, speaking for the Board. I appreciated his candor, honesty and forthrightness. I am in the process of returning his call with my email recollections. I have suggested Ed share my email with the Board. Of course that is his prerogative.
Phone calls are not valid for me. It becomes “he said/I said” and is questioned and disputed. I can study emails and comment about the content details which I may not recall well from a phone call.
I mentioned to Ed the hyper Charismatic Jeff Domes as an FBCAA Discussion Administrator – He seemed unaware.. This is an excerpt from my note to Ed later today:
Thanks again — you should stick around ExP — you will find us friendly to God’s Grace and thrilled at a sound Biblical Gospel message. We are also unashamed to expose what we see in Scriptures as compromise and error among the brethren and among those claiming to be brethren.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, thank you for remembering us; I actually attended Youth Ranch in your home a few times when I was a teenager. We lived in Perrine for a year and I attended Florida Christian School. We moved to Hollywood when the FBC campus moved from Miami and my mother Margaret Pearce ran the bookstore. She is now 99 years old is still faithfully presently the gospel and brings more visitors to our church than anyone else.
I wanted to clear up a few things for you and your readers. Pastor Ron DID NOT use the BG video/message, he used the INTEREST generated by the production to present a clear gospel message and teach others how to do it themselves. My understanding is that six people trusted Christ as their Savior. If you recall, this is similar to what Ray Stanford did when he encouraged Florida Bible College students/faculty to go to the Miami BG Crusades and volunteer as counselors to give a clear message to those who came forward for salvation.
In regard to Steve Bils – Bill and I have known Steve for many years and we have total confidence in his stand for the gospel and the truths of Scripture. I know for a fact that he is making a difference in the organization to which he belongs. If you look into it, you will find that the majority of the churches do not participate in the WCC. Each church makes its own decisions. A two minute phone call to Steve would have cleared this up.
Should we ever be a part of an organization that doesn’t present the gospel as clearly as we do? There are different opinions on that, and everyone will give a Bible verse to back up their position. I know of at least four national Christian organizations (condemned by FBC when I attended) that are now giving a clearer gospel message as a direct result of the involvement and influence of Florida Bible College alumni. As a consequence of the faithfulness of these men and women to be gracious, loving, and patient, they have been able to make a difference in other organizations and reach thousands with a clearer gospel message and other Scriptural truths. We interact with unbelievers to present the gospel and disciple them; I believe we need to interact with other believers who are not clear or have wandering from truth, so we can teach them sound doctrine and how to present a clearer gospel and disciple them. For the past ten years I have been periodically speaking for one of those groups, and as a result hundreds of women have trusted Christ and/or received assurance of salvation. Countless others, including other speakers, have come up to me after the meetings to thank me for the clear message, and many have asked if they could use my illustrations. PLEASE don’t interpret this as I’m saying the ends justify the means – I’m NOT !! Each of us has to discern the ministries where the Lord wants us to work, and we will answer to Him.
Regarding the FBC Discussion group on Face Book – you will have to contact someone besides me. My understanding is that it is a closed group and they have clearly stated that the views discussed are not necessarily the views of the FBCAA.
Holly, I too, appreciate when someone publicly stands for truth. That is exactly why Scripture gives us a process to follow in Matthew 18:15-17 – “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.” We just can’t skip any of these steps. That’s why I suggested a phone call verses e-mail. E-mail/letters/articles cannot always convey a person’s heart or provide back and forth dialog. Again, five minute (or less) phone call would have cleared up these concerns.
I’m deeply saddened for I fear that numerous people have read only this thread’s initial post and have already made judgments that do not contain all the facts. I believe the re-start of Florida Bible College will be a blessing to thousands over the coming years and will train students and teach the truths of God’s Word that FBC has always stood for.
I’m glad for Yankee Arnold’s college – there can never be enough for good Bible colleges. I know the FBC board regularly prays for his school and wishes him God’s abundant blessing.
Jack, I hope you have heard from the board. I’m so sorry your health has been poor; I pray for you every time I get an email updating us. Thank you again for your love for Jesus and the clear salvation message. I won’t post again as there is nothing else I can constructively contribute to this discussion.
Blessings, Mary Murphy
d taylor, you make an excellent point. Most of the modern Christian testimonies consist of the “I used tos” – “I used to do this, that, and the other, but then Christ changed my life and I don’t do those things any more. I do these instead.”
This type of testimony points to salvation by works. Clear Gospel Campaign puts it this way:
“In contrast to the testimony of Paul, we note that the predominant ‘testimony’ in the church today is that ‘Jesus Christ changed my life.’ We acknowledge that there are many truths of the Christian faith to which a believer can bear witness, including the deliverance from trials, temptations, sin and despair, and the deliverance unto hope, meaning, and purpose. However, we believe that, when these matters become the focus of a “conversion” testimony, such a testimony is misleading, and therefore counter productive in pointing men and women to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. It implies that salvation is allowing Jesus to change one’s life, with the consequence of observing a change. We believe that this teaches, by implication, the doctrines of Lordship salvation and justification by works, wherein justification is a process by which our lives are transformed. This is, by definition, the doctrine of Justification by works. We believe that such ‘testimonies’ have become a cancer on the church.”
Another area that billy graham (and most churches today) relies heavily own is the personal testimony. i notice most if not all these personal testimonies rely on a person who is in a crises in their life and after their so called experience with God come out a changed person and their life is so much better now. this approach affirms the fundamentals of the faith Christ die on the cross for their sins, etc.. but there is a subtle shift in that Faith alone in Christ alone is no longer the way to eternal life and the Bible alone is not the final authority in matters of faith but the persons experience is given equal value. they will value personal testimonies over and above the truth of the Bible: Faith alone in Christ alone.
You do not see in scripture personal testimonies used. Paul in the two times he mentions his road to Damascus (were he became a believer) it is in his defense when he is on trial not in an evangelistic goal. 1 Corinthians 2:1-5
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Holly,
Thanks,
It is THAT simple but so many teachers, Pastors churches, seminaries, etc just don’t get it.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Abe “I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where any preacher was told, “Go join up with these five ministries, even though none of them preach the Gospel, so that you can reach more people”.
Exactly!
And I see plenty in the Bible that says do NOT do this. 2 John 1:7-11 comes to mind, they share in their evil deeds…
It’s that simple.
Mary Murphy
I have to say, that I for one appreciate when something is publicly done such as advertising Billy Graham, that it is publicly dealt with, as it has already been witnessed. Too many churches just quietly allow these things to go away, it’s why so much compromise has crept in to the church.
Jack – as for IHOP, beyond even what you said demonic is a better word to identify what they do there, it is beyond me that they would have someone there from that place…
What a lot of great comments…
<bJtowner Was great to hear your story and the way you worded that… Really appreciated that comment.
Sam Many of us can relate to your story…
Jackson Very encouraging to see a 21 year old who is contending for the faith once delivered. Not corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ. I have a 22 yr. old, a 21 year old, a 20 year old, a 19 year old (and several others) 🙂 but encouraging to see one of your age out there speaking the clear gospel.
john wrote: “Their argument is usually along the lines of ‘nobody has to have a perfect faith or understanding of the gospel to be saved.’…”
Yes, I get that response from some people that I talk about with these things. They insist that, well, adding just a few works isn’t going to stop them from being saved.
Abe and John,
Thanks for those wonderful truths.
It appears that some who have purportedly been taught solid Grace Bible doctrine have veered from that Truth and involve themselves with liberal churches and seminaries, studying men, books, DVDs, commentaries, ecumenism, etc.
Of course every believer has the right to pursue and promote any cause or theology he deems appropriate. But the Board of FBC should, with diligence and Biblical wisdom, employ discernment and discretion investigate and filter out those who disagree with sound Bible doctrine.
I am distressed to report that THIS may be a reason for the FBC Restart’s “spirit of ecumenism.”
FBC Board member, Steve Bils is a major official of the liberal American Baptist Churches which, in turn, is a participating member of the ultra liberal World Council of Churches (WCC) and their extreme world wide Ecumenical movement.
Here is an unabashed quote from the official American Baptist web site:
From the FBC website list, Board of Trustees:
Is there any Biblically justifiable reason why FBC Board has such a person making decisions for the FBC Restart? Does the FBC Board even know about this? And if they do — or don’t — shame on them.
TRUTH:
TRUTH:
TRUTH:
TRUTH:
STANDING FOR TRUTH:
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Abe, I agree. anytime you try to put together some “Alliance” of people with divergent viewpoints, it requires compromise. We are not supposed to compromise the gospel.
Perhaps the biggest compromise out there has to do with how believers interpret Romans 1:16:
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
I interpret this verse to mean that the Gospel is unique – meaning that belief in any alternative message does not result in eternal life. Yet, I know several believers who think that I am being “legalistic” in this view.
I have been told that as long as someone believes in the Deity of Christ, that He was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead, that they are saved – even if they have added conditions such as “turning from sins” or “committing to Christ” as requirements for eternal life. In other words, belief in a false gospel of Christ plus works is “the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.”
Their argument is usually along the lines of “nobody has to have a perfect faith or understanding of the gospel to be saved.” My response is always: “It is the object of one’s faith – Jesus Christ – not the quality of one’s faith – that results in eternal life.
The Bible says in Romans 10:17: “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
It does not say “…faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of a Lordship ‘salvation’ preacher, such as Billy Graham.”
If someone thinks that an alternative to the gospel is the same as the Gospel in its power, I think they are on the slide into apostasy. That is, they are becoming “soil two” believers. Their “time of temptation” is the desire to fit in with large ecumenical groups.
Luke 8:13: “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”
“ecumenical evangelism attitude is destroying the integrity of the Gospel”
Exactly.
They will use the argument that they are somehow reaching more people by joining up with whatever and whoever. But, what are they reaching more people with?
And what is with this assumption that we can’t just go preach, without the connections with (ecumenical) others? Do people only hear English when some ecumenical “partner” is present, or do they still understand English when one of us alone just tells them the Gospel?
I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where any preacher was told, “Go join up with these five ministries, even though none of them preach the Gospel, so that you can reach more people”.
All I see in the Bible is, go and preach the Gospel. We have mouths, tongues, and there are people EVERYWHERE. What’s with this incessant desire to join up with this and that? Like you said, it just destroys the integrity of the Gospel.
Jeff Wells,
We appreciate your continuing desire to share the Gospel of God’s Grace.
We appreciate your comment and emotional appeal for the restart of FBC. However I disagree with your solution to the FBC restart debacle.
You said, “I too pray that the decisions being made now are the right ones.” Do you think the Billy Graham/CCC/FBC decision was the right one?
I do not!!
You said “I do believe … [the discussion here at Exp is] not productive in furthering God’s Work.”
Jeff we disagree — You seem to be suggesting that we who know Jesus Christ as Savior and love to clearly share the Gospel of God’s Grace should just hush and go away. That is no solution but exacerbates the terrible error.
I think we have answered your concerns in earlier comments.
Thanks for your prayers for ExP — The Lord is blessing this ministry.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi Jackson,
You said, “Whenever I tell people the Biblical gospel, they either seem to be surprised like it’s a message they’ve never heard before, or say things that we’re all used to hearing like “Why not just sin up a storm then?!” and all that.”
The people who say “Why not just sin up a storm then” do not understand love for God. We as believers understand it very well. The unsaved love to make salvation about works. For them to understand the love believers have for their Savior they need to be born again first. Glad to here about your witness even in a skeptical environment. You never know what great good can come from your witnessing.
Jim F
Jack, I just wish that some of the FBC Alumnus who still believe in what FBC taught & stood for would be more proactive in the planning of the restart of FBC. It’s just like what is said at election time–don’t complain about who got elected if you didn’t go out & vote. It’s not too late to get involved in making the restart of FBC stand up for the same standards we learned in the Grove & Hollywood(& Kissimmee). I was there also & I appreciate everything that I learned under Doc Stanford & Dr Cambron along with the other teachers. I also appreciate how you & the others on the board back then took an active part in what FBC stood for. I too pray that the decisions being made now are the right ones. I know many on the Board of Trustees personally from my time at FBC & feel that the restart is led by God, otherwise the Devil wouldn’t be working so hard against it. I never was a pastor,missionary or evangelist after leaving FBC but still use the “Am I Going to Heaven” tracts(print my own) & still pass out the Personal Evangelism books I get from Wally to pastors in my area. Although I support the restart of FBC, I also am glad to see Yankee’s efforts with FBC of Tampa as we need all the help we can get in spreading the gospel in a clear voice.
I know a lot of hype went into the airing of Billy Graham’s message as it happened around his birthday. A lot of people,Christians, nonChristians, church goers who think they’re saved & whom else that was just interested in seeing what it was all about watched the program. Living near Billy & working as an ER Nurse for the hospital system that cares for him when he’s sick, there are a lot of people who respect him without knowing his stand or what he preaches. There are some in his ministry organization that are straight on the plan of Salvation but they are not in the majority.
Not sure about this discussion of CCC, the FBCAA officers or the FBC Board of Trustees that you have going on here but I do believe it’s not productive in furthering God’s Work. As I said earlier, I would rather see the ones who have FBC in their background & enjoy using the FBCAA Discusion Group or post on either the FBCAA or FBC Group pages do something positive & get involved. Pleas for support for other Alumni’s ministries seem to fall on deaf ears. It does seem that some have strayed from their earlier beliefs taught to them at FBC as they expound on topics far away from the simple Gospel truth of saved by Grace. I cannot speak for the Board members as I’m not privy to their meetings but I do stand behind them & the decision to restart FBC–the time is right & it is needed. Hoping more Alumni will join me in this effort–we can’t bring back what once was but I pray that others will get the opportunity to experience that we did. Thanks Jack for your faithfulness–praying for you.
Thanks John,
You are right in so many ways and the false messages are subtle and involves so many folks.
But we press on, contending for the Faith once delivered to the saints.
I received a note from a good Grace friend regarding the majority of churches today:
Scripture speaks so often of embracing a clear Gospel message, separation and turn away from the false, encouraging and exhorting those who preach the Grace Gospel message clearly.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, the Lordship “salvationists” are trying to drive a wedge between wavering believers and ardent defenders of the Gospel now, just as the Judaizers tried to drive a wedge between the Apostle Paul and the Galatians:
Galatians 4:16-17: “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.”
Dear Mary (Murphy – since we have other Marys commenting)
Though we disagree on some points, I really appreciate your comments – finally from a lady, a semi-official source at the FBC re-start. We are still disappointed that we have had no definitive response from the FBC Board.
I remember you and your husband Bill at FBC. I was in the “old family guy” group, Doc Swords, Woolens, etc while you and Bill were part of the young stalwarts. Bill is listed in my graduating class (Officially 1972). I still have a PDF copy of the Graduation Program. We appreciated y’all.
I too read Pastor Ron’s CCC Statement of Faith (SoF) on-line and found it not outstanding but maybe adequate. However, we must realize that a Biblical SoF and a verbal declaration of the “clarity of the Gospel” fails the doctrinal test when one does an about-face, recommends and encourages his congregation to listen to, but understand the difference between his and the foul method and message of Billy Graham as a soul winning tool. What’s wrong with the “Handbook of Personal Evangelism” by A. Ray Stanford?
Bob DeCamp posted publicly on my FB article:
“Not clear”??? What an understatement!! This excuse “reach more people,” anything goes, ecumenical evangelism attitude is destroying the integrity of the Gospel and the solid Grace orientation of FBC Alumni. So many have departed from the Truth or have become blind to that simple teaching of God’s Grace.
Imagine the good old days at FBC, 1,000+ students strong. Imagine a big FBC advertising campaign, inviting friends, families and visitors from all over South Florida. “Come listen to Billy Graham exhort FBC students to use his soul winning methods to ‘win folks to Christ.’” Billy then tells students and visitors his lie of “turn from your sin and commit your life to Christ to be or stay saved.” THAT would never happen. But if it did, the student body would have rebelled!! I would have been just as vociferous and adamant as I am today about this CCC/FBC/Graham debacle. Such a scenario is unimaginable and inexcusable!
Yes I sent an email to Pastor Ron and John Boehm. Pastor did not answer but I cannot control his email system. The Board, if they were ever contacted, seems not to understand the gravity and urgency of this problem. There is a dangerous apostasy to deal with here. If Ron chose not to respond, that is his prerogative but is silence the best move?
I did not call Ron for several reasons – my health does not allow extended conversations and phone calls. And unlike emails, calls are not in black and white open to check and review.
Mary, it may be pure coincidence that the Graham splash screen was taken down immediately after my notes to Boehm and Ron. Regardless of the dates of the big CCC Graham promotion and the event itself.. the facts remain – CCC, for whatever reason, was promoting apostasy.
Yes Board member Boehm said he would bring the issue up to the Board but as I recall, there was no “get back to you” inferred. I have no clue on the meeting schedule of the Board – but conference phone calls and multiple emails work quite rapidly and well — if people are concerned enough.
Yes, I am now aware that the FBCAA and FBC boards are not the same. But two FBC Board members are Administrators at the FBCAA Discussion Board.
And Mary, are you aware that one of the three Administrators at the FBCAA Official Discussion Board promotes radical, un-Biblical charismatic practices? He advertises on his web site, “The Science of Speaking in Tongues,” promotes videos on raising the dead and promotes the un-Biblical ultra-charismatic International House of Prayer, Kansas City. Though supposedly not connected, the FBC Board should worry about that kind of representation, the lack of discernment and influence on the Alumni.
Scripture instructs believers to SEPARATE from error, NOT COOPERATE!!
Mary thanks again for bravely voicing your opinion.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hazel,
Thanks for that information. I have no opinion on Hank’s opinion.
We who have trusted Jesus Christ alone as Savior will know the end of prophecy when we are in Heaven with our Savior Jesus. Until then we preach Jesus Christ, the only Savior.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi Jack,
I watched some youtube videos given by Hank Lindstrom since you mentioned him in the post. He states that the U.S. is where the antichrist will emerge from in one of his videos talking about prophecy. Do you agree with this interpretation? If it is true, would there be no use praying for our nation?
Hazel
Dear Jack,
I want to thank you for your love for the clarity of the gospel and your faithfulness in presenting the gospel throughout the years. I, too, trusted Christ as my Savior through the ministry of Florida Bible College and I’m grateful for the foundation that was established in my life more than forty-five years ago.
Since reading your blog last week I’ve had heaviness in my spirit and I felt the need to respond.
Last summer I had the privilege of attending CCC with my husband (also saved through the FBC ministry, a FBC grad, a pastor, and a faithful soul winner) and heard a clear gospel. Later in the week we met with Pastor Ron, and the FBC board of trustees had the opportunity to read the CCC statement of faith and question him at length on the clarity of the gospel among many other issues. We all came away satisfied and excited about a possible alliance with CCC.
My concern is that you wrote this blog without waiting for answers from Pastor Ron or the FBC board. It appears you sent an email to Pastor Ron. Are you sure he received the email? Could it have gone to a spam folder or been deleted by mistake? Did your email have a tone of love and understanding, therefore inviting a response, or did it have an accusatory tenor making one assume that there was no point in answering? Did you try to call Pastor Ron on the phone when you didn’t hear back from him so that you could have a back and forth dialog, thereby having a better feel for each other’s motivations and concerns? I don’t know the answers to these questions, but perhaps a verbal conversation would be most productive when dealing with a subject of this magnitude, thereby allowing both parties to discern each other’s spirit.
I’m not sure why you mentioned that the Billy Graham post was taken down from the CCC website after your efforts to contact Pastor Ron. Since your post was dated several days after the event it would make sense to remove it.
You said that a FBC board member agreed to get back with you after the next board meeting. They have made it clear on the website that they meet every two weeks. That meeting will occur later this week. You accused them in your blog before they had an opportunity to meet and discuss your concerns.
I was not aware of the Billy Graham post on the CCC website until I read your blog. I was surprised and had questions, but decided to make my own inquiries and wait for answers before I made judgments. I now have those answers and am still confident in the ministry of CCC and the re-start of Florida Bible College.
I am not a board member but serve in an advisory capacity, so I am not speaking for the board rather as a concerned reader of your blog. By the way, the FBC board is not the same as the FBCAA board and has a completely different function.
Blessings on you and your ministry,
Mary Murphy
Here is one more excerpt form the Bowen book:
“So, we must ask ourselves this question: “Why does Billy Graham
tell us that we must repent of our sins in order to be saved?”
That is a question I have asked myself repeatedly ever since I
realized he was wrong and that Christ was right. I cannot explain the
reasons for which Billy feels this great need to ignore what Christ
has said so clearly and to instead add works to God’s grace. I believe
Billy is not aware of what metanoia really means, yet, I am in no
way insinuating that he is ignorant of the meaning, I just believe that
Satan will not allow him to understand it because, “But if our gospel
be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world
hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of
the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine
unto them”(2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
Simply put, the only logical conclusion to which I can arrive in
an attempt to answer this question is that Satan has blinded him to
the truth about salvation the way the aforementioned verse suggests”
Jack, I have just read quite a few excerpts of “I Never Knew You: The Horror of the Great White Throne Judgement and How You Can Avoid It” by Michael Patrick Bowen.
Here are some of the things Bowen says (with which I agree) about Billy Graham’s false gospel:
“In sum, will you choose to believe Billy Graham, or will you choose to believe Jesus Christ? Go to his BGEA Website, read what his salvation statement says, listen to him on the radio, watch his television sermons. Inform yourself fully on what he teaches. Then contrast what he says with the things Jesus Christ says. In the end, compare everything you learn about Billy Graham’s teachings to what God tells us in John 3:16, John 6:40, John 6:47, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, and Ephesians 2:8-9. They will not match. They will be very different, but, you must choose whom you will believe. If you choose what Christ says, you will have everlasting life in heaven; however, if you choose a plan that is different from Christ’s plan of salvation, you will be cast into the everlasting lake of fire:”
John,
Thanks, I’ll post it to FaceBook right now.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, the justification that the alumnus of FBC gave you regarding the Graham film is appalling. Graham’s LS message is not just slick. And, it is not just confusing. It is a false gospel of works that cannot save anyone. If Graham is a believer, he has wasted most of his life preaching a false gospel of works.
Graham’s message is not appropriate for ANYONE. A discerning believer will know it is garbage and avoid it. A non-discerning believer may be confused by it. And, an unbeliever will not be led to faith in Christ by Graham’s perverse gospel of works.
Please feel free to send your alumnus friend the link to my comment below:
Hi Jackson,
Welcome to ExPreacherMan — our Oasis of Grace on the Internet.
Sorry you are having problems finding a free Grace church. But you came to the right place here.. We are one of the few free Grace web sites on the Internet.
We have many friends and commenters here at ExP who have experiences similar to yours. Satan has a foothold in most of the churches today and LS is spreading like wildfire.
Your comment about FBC: It was a beacon of Truth at one time. However, it seems that even before it gets off the ground, the new administration of the soon to “re-start FBC” and many Alumni have no discernment of the Truth.
I just a few moments ago received a FaceBook email from an Alumnus justifying the Graham film, saying he thought in effect it was OK (these are my words) to eat the good stuff and avoid the poison. This must assume all their visitors know the difference but so few do. A false message is slick and can confuse.
We pray you will stick around, read our articles and comment. We need a lot of young folks to prepare to carry the wonderful good news of God’s salvation by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hey Jack,
I am currently a student at Colorado State University, obviously a very secular school. What troubles me is that every ministry on my campus seems to teach lordship salvation. I always have thought that Florida Bible College was one of the Free Grace “strongholds” in this country but it seems we have reason to be concerned even there.
Whenever I tell people the Biblical gospel, they either seem to be surprised like it’s a message they’ve never heard before, or say things that we’re all used to hearing like “Why not just sin up a storm then?!” and all that.
-Jackson (21-years-old).
Jim F,
Thanks.. We can always be optimistic but it takes sound Biblical leadership and discernment on the part of many folks to return to the Truth — and such discernment may be lacking.
It doesn’t take much of such nonsense for discerning Alumni to lose confidence in the organization its goals and leadership.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack,
Sorry to hear about this at your former college. I’ve seen these kind of things happen at Northland. It only takes a generation (sometimes just new leadership) to lose what was there before. I’ll be praying for the best possible outcome in all of this.
Jim F
jtowner2013,
Excellent comments. You are right on. Salvation is as good as our object of faith (Christ) is capable and trustworthy to save us as the Bible promises. I believe that is is somehow inherent in man to always want to try to have control. It is a foreign concept to trust without conditions. Such as, I’ll trust that God has saved as long as I see evidence of change in my life etc.
Good question: “Why should we doubt Christ?” Why indeed should we allow our actions to cast doubt on him.? It is the other way around. If Christ is my Savior then my deeds should be about walking in the Spirit and do that which I know will please my Savior. If they don’t Then I should adjust what I am doing to be what he wants. Works are for service to God and others not for keeping salvation.
Jim F
I read this website though I don’t post much.
I have been in Christ now since Christmas Day, 1984. I still remember that moment clearly. I’m an Aussie and it is very hard to find people who believe “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” without an “if” or a “but” included.
We encourage the church to sing “I don’t know what the future holds but I knows Who holds the future,” yet we cannot get them to answer the question: “How do you know you are still saved?” by simply saying: “I know Who saved me.”
Instead of going from the simple to the complex as we should, we start with the complex and people can’t see the simple Gospel. The church has become overly wrapped up in “What are you doing for Jesus?” that believers are no longer certain what Jesus has done for them. They cannot see where they stand now in God’s eyes.
If Jesus said “I give them eternal life and they shall never perish…”John 10:28, why can we not accept the literal meaning of what He said?
Romans 6:23 states “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
When I left Australia, a few years back, I gave my car to my niece. It is her car to do what she wants with it. She can look after it [and it will be ‘fruitful’] or she can neglect it [and it will be ‘unfruitful’]. But, it is still her car and it is still a car. As Christians we can choose to be fruitful or unfruitful, but we still have eternal life. It was given to us in Christ Jesus.
Today, there seems to be a trend to treat the gift of eternal life as a hire-purchase agreement. We make a down payment and then make regular repayments [good works, going to church, prayer, freedom from sin etc] to keep it. And if we don’t keep up the payments, it will be repossessed.
If this is true, then it is not a gift.
My niece never doubted the car was hers. Why should we doubt Christ?
Sam,
Welcome — and Thanks for commenting.
Your sad story is not unusual — except that the wonderful part is that you and your wife are a part of the Body of Christ, The Church. You have your own church together and you know it is right!
ExPreacherMan.com is designed, as our Header states, to be an “Oasis of Grace” for those who have and others who have no available Grace church home. We are here for those who wish to learn and understand more about Scripture, the free Grace of the Bible and how to avoid those who would destroy the Simplicity that is in Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:3
“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
We support each other with prayer, scripture and encouragement. Happy to have you and your wife join us.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Welcome, Sam!
Great to have you with us. I too listen to Yankee and listen to Hank’s archived programs (as well as Tom Cucuzza’s).
You are not alone. My wife and I have been “alone” and doing “church” and Bible study on Sunday mornings at home for months as well.
Mine’s a long story but after spending almost 7 years in a church it took us 5 years to find, only to find out it was way more LS than we’d realized, we’ve decided it’s time to recover and avoid bad doctrine and “fellowship” indefinitely . . .
I see you mentioned yankee Arnold and Hank Lindstrom. I listened to Hank for several years before he passed, but I still listen to his archived programs; also listen to Yankee. I’ve been in three churches in the last ten years, and unfortunately they all are lordship salvation churches. After trying to work with the last church I decided I had to go. Now we’re just doing bible study on Sunday mornings at home. If you believe in Grace alone by Faith alone by Christ alone, there is a good chance you’re going to be alone, at least where I live. Thanks to you all as you give me hope and I haved learned a great deal from this site and some of the others you have listed.
Abe.
You are right — but if a link is published as a comment on the FBCAA Discussion Group, they cannot ignore it.
Here is the link for those interested:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/176638242408871/
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
“Are they afraid or embarrassed to defend their position supporting Billy Graham?”
They don’t want a debate. That is the issue. They want to go their way, without having to get into a debate about it. They want everyone to just leave it alone.
Readers of ExP and or Members of FBCAA:
Just for the record, I received a personal email from a dear friend, FBC Alumnus and a member of the FBCAA who shall remain anonymous for personal reasons. This person was likewise shocked at the FBCAA/CCC promotion of Billy Graham.
Here are excerpts from this person’s note:
We are thankful there are some FBC Alumni who are still Grace discerning.
I took this suggestion 24 hours ago and tried to join the FBCAA Facebook Group — but to no avail (email from board members takes only seconds to circle the globe). They do not want me as a member. I noticed that the Administrators of the FBCAA FB group are also Board members — one of whom was the person I quoted saying in answer to my query, “I’ll bring it up to the Board.” I have heard nothing further officially from him or anyone at FBCAA Board. Strange!! Are they afraid or embarrassed to defend their position supporting Billy Graham?
Suggestion:
One or more FBC Alumni Discussion members (or potential members if you wish to join) who may have or will gain access to the Group; copy and paste the link to this article in the comment section of the FBCAA FB page.. The group has 183 members and I suspect many of them agree with us and this friend who was so shocked. Thanks.
We will be interested in the reaction of non-Board Alumni of FBCAA.
We are still open to hear any board member’s justification for this cooperation with Billy Graham.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
I wonder if these men/women have ever consider that they have died to the law if they ever simply believed on Christ and His work on the cross in our place. I was talking about Rom 7 in Bible study last night, as we were studying Galatians. They are trying to revive their dead husband, in essence, disrespectful to their new one. They are living by the dead husband’s rules and not letting the new husband, nourish them, clean them up, always looking back…These people don’t accuse us, they accuse Christ, for it is Christ who lives in us. We are dead to the law, and live unto God, but somehow they feel we live unto their fruit inspecting…
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Rom 7:1-4
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 2:19-21
Holly,
Yes, in this crazy mixed up world of Lordship “salvation” religious “evangelism” we have seen just about everything, the good called bad, the bad, good — and the message of God’s free Grace condemned because it is “too easy.”
For some reason people cherish and are drawn to the horrible shackles of legalism and the popular, charismatic folks who preach it..
Thanks for staying the course and being faithful to The Word of God.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
You know Jack, it is heartbreaking for me too, and has been for years. I have wondered, as churches might sometimes take care of the physical needs of widows and orphans, but allow men to sneak in privily to spy out our liberty. Mr Graham may be charming and harmless looking, but I not believe he can have understood the gospel, not even knowing whether Christ will call him unrighteous and say he needs to leave heaven. How can a preacher who knows God’s Word, call Pope John Paul the greatest evangelist of all times? The ravening wolf has been let in the flock, by either Shepherds who are not shepherds, foolish and silly sheep, or ones that look the other way for self-promotion, making merchandise of the people. The Lord sees these men, and we know about teachers, the accountability is greater… If indeed Billy Graham ever believed the simple gospel, he has not preached it for years. I know people have a hard time judging with a righteous judgment, instead they see his appearance and they judge him to be good. Shame on them, they will answer for those who have been mislead because they will allow God’s Word to be compromised. Frightening to me…
……but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Is 66:2
But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. Ps 50:16-17
Holly,
Thanks for those powerful and appropriate verses.
We still pray that the CCC Church and the FBCAA Board will understand that such verses and the principles they represent apply to them as well as all of us.
It is heartbreaking that there is so little public concern from CCC/FBCAA. For them to support and promote such false teaching and ignore a warning is not a trivial matter.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Frank – really? You find it irresponsible once something has been witnessed by 2 or 3 to expose it publicly to the light as we are told to do?
Rom 16:17-18, 2 John 1:7-11; 1 Thess 5:21; 1 John 4:1
We should not ever let someone tell us we are not to speak against evil. Not to name names. Not to mark and avoid. From 2 Jn above, we share in their evil deeds (those who don’t abide in His doctrine) if we even bid them God speed, the exact thing that they did by advertising Billy Graham on their site. It is no secret his many errors in the gospel, (accursed) his associations also with false teachers, and his endorsing of the new age and occult ‘bible’ the Mess-AGE.
We can pray for them, but we ARE obey to warn as we are all told. We are to judge with a righteous judgment as Jesus said, which is by His Word (Jn 7:24) and it is to know doctrine as well as keep out those who will not turn from doing serious wrongs. ( having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people >>>turn away! 2 Tim 3:5)
“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh DISORDERLY, and not after the tradition which ye received of us ” (II Thess. 3:6).
“Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith ” (Titus 1: 13).
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them ” (Eph. 5:11)
“If you read the Statement of Faith…”
There was a TV money preacher I heard routinely give off the most horrifying lies in his messages some years ago. But if you would have visited his website at the time, it would have had tons of accurate statements regarding doctrine. A posted statement of faith means nothing.
“I also know some of the men on the board and they are not in any way shape or form a part of Lordship Salvation.”
If that were true, then they’d reject Billy Graham’s false gospel by avoiding endorsing him.
If FBC is going to be a light of the Free Grace (i.e. true) Gospel, something that so many of us want (and I live in Florida too), then why do they pollute the waters right off the bat with the Billy Graham thing? Then FBC is just like every other place out there.
That means FBC, so far at least, will be hooked up with the “blob of Christendom”, which is fake Christianity in reality.
On Facebook, I connected to many free grace pastors and people in general, and I was very disappointed to find how many of them posted stuff about the Billy Graham event. How can supposed free grace people, be so blind?
Bruce,
Thanks for your commendation of Carol.
She wrote to me some time back about searching out folks siting on bus benches, going over to them and sharing Christ with them. Thanks Carol!!
It would be great if we all had that zeal for the lost.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Carol, Welcome!
Thank you for such a clear and concise definition of repentance. I couldn’t improve on your statement.
Blessings sister
Frank,
Thanks for your reply.. I see we clearly disagree.
A Statement of Faith at CCC and FBCAA did not keep them from endorsing Billy Graham and his false message — and a Statement of Faith at CCC did not keep then from inviting their congregation to view the Graham presentation in order to “learn to share their faith.” That is an atrocious affront to the Precious Gospel of our Savior.
Irresponsible is not answering my email to the Pastor. Irresponsible is advertising Billy Graham and his horrific teaching. Irresponsible is defending this re-starting of FBC in a church who promotes an irresponsible Billy Graham.
And I believe it would be further irresponsible to the Alumni for the FBCAA Board and CCC to offer no apology or explanation to those insulted by the affront. They are welcome to comment here and defend their actions at any time.
There is a Biblical principle some seem to have forgotten or choose to ignore; call out those in error and separate from those who perpetuate it:
We will still let members of either CCC and/or the FBCAA Board (some of whom I also know personally) state their case for endorsing the Billy Graham false message. I am interested in why they would do so and go at such variance with God’s Word and the principles upon which FBC was founded.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
If you read the Statement of Faith at http://www.floridabiblecollege.com you will clearly see that they are not Lordship Salvation. I also know some of the men on the board and they are not in any way shape or form a part of Lordship Salvation. Jack I find in irresponsible to post this prior to getting a response from them.
Shirley Brounley, (another FBC Alumnus)
Welcome. Thanks so much for your comment. You will also find a lot pf free Grace friends here. There are a few of us left!
It is so distressing to see the memories of those wonderful FBC years besmirched and associated with the likes of Billy Graham.
I am still praying that the FBCAA Board and CCC Pastor Ron Hoffmann will visit ExPreacherMan and respond. I sent them (two board members) the link and notified them that I have published the article.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
I am so disappointed to hear about the promotion of Billy Graham by the church that will host the new FBC. There is so much about Billy Graham that is hidden by his promoters. His muddied gospel message is only the surface of what is going on in his life and ministry. I agree that if FBC cannot be the beacon of light for the clear, free gospel message, then it is better left a fond and glorious memory.
Carol,
Welcome. And thanks for your comment. You should be right at home here at ExP. 😎
You will find many like-minded free Grace Believers here and we are grateful for you and each one.
For our readers, I have been acquainted with Carol for many years — she is also an Alumnus of Florida Bible College – and still faithfully sharing Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
D Taylor,
Thanks for your observation — that is disappointing.
I missed that note that they were still promoting Billy Graham. I have written a note to CCC Pastor and another Board member whom I contacted previously, encouraging them to visit our web site and explain/comment.
I pray someone in an official capacity will do so — as we have many FBC Alums who read ExPreacherMan.. They need to know just where the CCC and FBCAA stand on the Graham false “gospel” issue.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
The word “repent” in the New Testament is the Greek word “metanoeo”. It means “to change your mind; reconsider; or, to think differently.” To go from unbelief to belief. If repent meant to turn from sin, that would add works to Salvation. If that’s the case, we either need to rethink what repent really means or toss out ALL of the verses that says Salvation is by faith.
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
And many more…..
jack they may have took it off the flash screen but below in the circle of news this is still there
10/27/2013 06:30 AM
My Hope with Billy Graham Starting
The “My Hope with Billy Graham” outreach starts today! Please conduct your meetings this week and be praying for each other as we share our faith. Also, pray for the ESL students to come on Thursday to hear the presentation. … Continue reading →
Jack, thanks for this heartfelt article. It will be interesting to see how “the Board” responds.
You said: “With thousands of compromising seminaries and Bible colleges teaching the Lordship “salvation” lie, why would anyone desire to multiply that number with just one more?”
My comment: It would be far better for Florida Bible College to remain a memory than to become another tool of the works for salvation crowd.
We did not intentionally close comments — SO, they are now open if you wish to comment.
I am pleased to see that the CCC or FBCAA webmaster has scrubbed the flash screen advertising Billy Graham.
We await an affirmation that the Pastor at CCC and the FBCAA Board condemn the Billy Graham false message. Such an affirmation would do CCC and the FBCAA a world of good among all FBC Alumni, many of whom follow this web site, whether or not they are associated with the official FBCAA association.
ExPreacherMan.com is read by hundreds of folks daily and an apology is certainly in order — to assure FBC Alums that there will be no cooperation with Graham and his ilk..
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack