A very dear friend posted a link to an excerpt from a Paul Washer speech. She appreciated it but when I questioned Washer’s doctrine, she sincerely asked me for my understanding and explanation. This is an adaptation of my note to her.
I went to the link and listened to Washer. I found him to be a very appealing and charismatic speaker. But he confirmed my opinion from previous videos that he preaches a false repentance message and very obviously preaches Lordship Salvation. Here is the link: Paul Washer Video
I transcribed these few excerpts from the video, and since I’m 3/4 blind and deaf there may be some slight difference between this and what you hear. I listened to it twice, stopping and starting it, doing the best I could typing with two-fingers. (But I thank the Lord for one almost good eye and two fingers).
Washer started the video by saying: (In Bold Red)
It is impossible to be embraced [???] by the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not to be changed at the very core of your being and it not be manifest to those around you.
He starts out with an un-Scriptural statement. He apparently either ignores or does not understand the two natures (old and new) of the believer and the free will we have to be obedient to the Lord or not. A believer will not necessarily automatically “manifest” that he has been “changed at the very core of his being.”
However, he nailed Billy Graham (not by name though) with his analysis of a false “come down an aisle method” and with psychological manipulation; I agreed with that. But Washer neglected to condemn the Graham “turn from sin” repentance message, but as I listened further it became abundantly clear that he agreed with Graham’s false repentance message.
Washer:
Those who have professed Christ and are living in continuous state of carnality without the least evidence of Holy Spirit convicting them of sin – it is because they are not saved…
Again Washer sets himself up as the Lord and judge, determining whether or not he can see a person is a believer by their actions, even after the person has professed his faith in Jesus Christ. He completely ignores the clear teaching of the carnality of the Corinthian believers, contentious, etc.
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:1),
“What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness? 1 Corinthians 3:1
“It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.” 1 Corinthians 4:21-5:1
Washer’s message is essentially preaching the Lordship salvation message of John MacArthur (and others), which is, if a believer does not turn from sin before and after he trusts Christ and does not live the “Christian life,” according to their rules then he cannot be a believer.
Washer says:
The Gospel is to repent of your sins and believe the Gospel.
Not true – God’s Word never says we must “repent of our sins” for salvation. Repent means to change one’s mind — and then we believe/trust Jesus Christ as our Savior, that He died for our sins, paid our debt, rose from the grave and will give us the FREE gift of eternal life!. That is God’s Grace.
Washer says, speaking of becoming a believer:
Evangelists say, it takes only 5 minutes. Washer says, NO my friends, it will take your life.
This is simply the exact Lordship/commitment salvation message, and is absolutely contrary to the message of God’s Grace.
Washer is critical of evangelists who would “share the Gospel in 2 minutes and go for the sale.”
Well, if I only have 2 minutes to share the Gospel, that is exactly what I will do. The Bible does not put a time clock on presentation of the Gospel nor on how short or long a period of time it takes a person to understand the Gospel and trust Christ as Savior. Washer’s statement is ludicrous, ridiculous and wrong.
Washer on evidence of true conversion:
Profession will be continuing on.. Is God a reality in your life? It MUST be obvious (to others) that God is finishing a good work in you. If you have indeed repented of your sins [sic] and believed, the evidence is that you will continue repenting and believe.
What a mixed up Lordship Salvation statement! He is again setting himself up as the judge, by his standards, of who is a believer by demanding the “evidence” of having “repented of your sins.”
God is the only one Who can determine whether a person has trusted in Jesus Christ as their Savior. I must admit I could have heard this phrase incorrectly but I listened twice.. Again, “repenting of your sins” is not a Biblical salvation message.
Most discerning believers in Christ know the Christian life and Obedience is not automatic but are works which we as believers SHOULD do “walk,” “put on (clothe yourself )with the new man”., etc, not for salvation but because we ARE saved. (Ephesians 2:10) The Bible is full of instructions about how believers should behave. IF living the “Christian Life” were automatic, there would be no need for the plethora of Bible instructions detailing what we should do now that we are believers in Jesus Christ. We are told in:
Ephesians 5:15-16
“See then that ye WALK circumspectly (carefully), not as fools, but as wise, REDEEMING the time, because the days are evil.” [Not automatic but something we should do as believers]
Colossians 3:10
“And have PUT ON (clothe yourself) the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him (the new man):” [Not automatic but something we should do as believers]
Now, as believers in Jesus Christ, we accomplish this by Bible Study, fellowship with solid Bible believers and being instant in prayer to the Lord and sharing our faith. If we ignore these things we can easily slip into being carnal believers and as such may incur the Lord’s chastening and discipline. (Hebrews 12:6)
Thanks for indulging me in this… but I have seen so many friends falling for the new age, emergent, Lordship message that I have to shout it out.
Washer is preaching a message that can very easily make folks doubt their salvation. He says, in effect, “You do this and that or you are not saved.” Tragic!!!
//Washer’s message is essentially preaching the Lordship salvation message of John MacArthur (and others), which is, if a believer does not turn from sin before and after he trusts Christ and does not live the “Christian life,” according to their rules then he cannot be a believer.//
Heh, no, from what I’ve heard he’s way worse than MacArthur. MacArthur pretends about half the time that he believes in free salvation. In fact, MacArthur never can seem to figure out for sure which message he actually believes. But Paul Washer is just plain wrong 100% of the time. The man is truly severed from Christ.
Drew,
Great analysis.. as if anyone could be worse than MacArthur..
Mac vacillates between the lie and the truth while Washer apologetically preaches the lie consistently.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi Jack & Drew ~
I was wondering when/if someone would finally break the ice (not me…I’m still learning)!
Drew, you said:
Can you elaborate, please? As you may well know, Paul Washer is all over the place, especially held in very high regard by discernment blogs.
Washer’s comment above which says salvation will take your whole life is, at best, a confusing one. Reconciliation to the Father through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ is instantaneous, but sanctification is a life long process, which really boils down to the flesh warring against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. It’s a matter of walking in faith, moment by moment, which I suppose is being interpreted by Washer and LS folks as a continuous choosing “right” over “wrong” (?). But, the problem with this is that so many things appear “right” and yet, may not be the will of God. It takes His Spirit in me to discern “pretty good” from “excellent”. Perhaps many would just say this is a case of semantics.
I wish I had it all figured out, but I don’t.
It is true that salvation takes your whole life. The moment you place your faith in Jesus, Jesus becomes lord of your whole life. And in fact, he is still your lord whether you continue to obey him or not. If I choose to run around robbing people, stealing, fighting, driving drunk, and just generally breaking all the laws of Tennessee, that doesn’t stop Bill Haslam from being my governor. (And he will deal with me as my governor by sending the police to put me in jail.) Likewise, if I mess around morally that doesn’t stop Jesus from being my lord. In the parable of the talents, Jesus is the master of all the servants, not just of the ones who invest the money.
But Paul Washer teaches that you have to make Jesus your master by working yourself into an emotional frenzy and sincerely pledging to stop sinning, and that even then, you aren’t really saved unless you continue your cessation from sin for basically your whole life.
I could be wrong about MacArthur, but just from what I have heard, he isn’t as hardcore of a Lordshipper as Washer. I think he is more of a traditional Calvinist, but that every now and then he just starts preaching commitment-salvation. He did write a book about Lordship Salvation, but that was about 25 years ago and I think he has mellowed out since then.
Hi Pearl,
Great! You have pegged the LS folks and Washer pretty well. You said, “held in very high regard by discernment blogs.” True, but most “discernment” blogs and web sites are one dimensional, focusing on Emergent or Mysticism teachers. While good they seem to ignore and/or promote the LS and Calvinist folks. I will be posting a blog soon on the dilemma of recommending discernment sites or teachers. It is a problem and I am guilty of the error.
Yes, you are exactly right, “Reconciliation to the Father [salvation] through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ is instantaneous, but sanctification is a life long process, which really boils down to the flesh warring against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. It’s a matter of walking in faith, moment by moment,”
Yes, we must understand the two natures of the believer in Christ, the old sin, flesh nature and the new perfect nature given from God. This doctrine is so vital for Christians to grasp, yet ignored by too many teachers!
But herein is the problem with Washer, et al. You said:
which I suppose is being interpreted by Washer and LS folks as a continuous choosing “right” over “wrong” (?). ,
The LS folks imply that if you choose the “wrong” it is based on their opinion and interpretation of “wrong.” Their conclusion, then, is that doing so, you were never saved or you have “fallen from grace,” as they try to condemn others by their version of continuing in “the law” or else!
You accurately said that “It takes His Spirit in me to discern “pretty good” from “excellent”. Perhaps many would just say this is a case of semantics.”
Yes, God’s Holy Spirit guides believers into truth continually, 27/7. (John 16:13a) We read, study, learn and use His Word and grow in Grace to understand how to follow. We are not born into God’s family completely mature… but we should continually:
“… grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. ” 2 Peter 3:18
Pearl, believe me, your writings tell me you have figured out more that 95% of other Christians (that is anecdotal evidence).
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Drew,
MacArthur has not mellowed or changed his stripes. I have written several articles on this Blog about Mac and I and my friend Bruce Bauer have illustrated that fact. In Bruce’s review of Mac’s newest book, “Slave,” Mac digs his LS hole even deeper into declaring that for years Christians and translators of scripture have perpetrated a monstrous coverup. He now declares that every believer in Christ is a slave rather than a child of God. This post received an abundance of comments.. some disagreed but most agreed.
http://www.expreacherman.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/john-macarthurs-new-apostate-book/
Enjoy!
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Well, whether we’re slaves or children doesn’t have all that much to do with soteriology. I personally think we are servants of Christ (and technically also brothers of Christ), whereas we are children of the Father. The Bible seems to use both terms, but in those two different contexts.
“Slave” I think is probably a bad translation. I have noticed that MacArthur tends to support absolutist government (e.g., recently supporting Moumar Ghadaffi), and maybe that is why he likes the word “slave” over “servant.” But I don’t think the Bible condones “slavery,” as most would consider the term. The Old Testament does condone some form of indentured servitude as a punishment (as does our Thirteenth Amendment!), and the New Testament does tolerate slavery somewhat as an existing evil, but certainly does not condone it (see 1 Timothy 1:10).
I don’t like to listen to MacArthur so maybe is just as crazy about soteriology now as he always was. But my mom listens to him sometimes and she has told me that he seems to have backed off the Lordship routine a good bit. By contrast, every clip I ever hear from Washer sounds like a whiny-voiced, emotional plea to stop sinning in order to get to heaven. Paul Washer supports emotionalistic revival in the extreme.
He apparently either ignores or does not understand the two natures (old and new) of the believer and the free will we have to be obedient to the Lord or not.
Jack-
Washer spoke against the existence of carnal Christians and L.S.Chafer, though he didn’t mention Chafer by name, in a video he did a few years ago. It’s on You Tube somewhere under the title “Paul Washer’s Shocking Sermon” or something similar. I am not going to link to it because, well, it’s Washer, so anyone who wants to listen to it can google or search for it on You Tube. But in his talk he said something about 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 not meaning that a Christian can live an ungodly life (I think what he said was that carnal didn’t mean carnal and you have to read the whole book to see what Paul meant by carnal.) and some slights against Dallas Seminary and Chafer, though neither are mentioned by name, and then something about how we’re not supposed to get our theology from the back of Christian T-shirts. And no, I am not making that up.
Anyway, he does not believe the Christian has two natures.
JanH
Actually it’s not a video HE did, it’s a video of him giving a sermon. Technicality.
JanH
Thanks JanH,
Washer has sealed his own false
theologyphilosophy with his on-line messages.It is a shame that so many Christians follow and believe his every word — with no consideration for “thus saith the Lord.”
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
well I like Paul Washer but I have to admit he did make me question my poor husbands salvation because it wasnt radical and dramatic like mine and I was worried .I havn’t watched Mr Washer in a while because of his “YOUR Baby would KiLL you given the opportunity” (or something) message which I found reeeaally out there. Anyway, Im glad I found this site because you are gentle about correcting what you disagree with and put me at ease a bit.But I plan to keep an open mind,read for myself after prayer and check EVERYBODY out! appreciation to you
I am really enjoying your website, it is such a breath of fresh air. I want to share something I heard today. I have been listening to in my opinion, one of the greatest teachers on Grace I have ever heard. He said this today, we are about to see a revolution of the Teaching of the Grace of God in this world. He said he recently spoke at a conference in the far east,where pastors from all over the world where there. He was amazed at the Spirit of Grace these young and older pastors had. In my opinon I believe it is coming in spite of all the Lordship teaching. I have a dear pastor friend who is bound by the lordship teaching. Obey, Obey is his mantra, I pointed out to him the word says Ro 2:4 “it’s the goodness of God that leads men to repentance.”
Also our Lord Jesus used the word “obey” 1 time in all scripture, He used the words “Love, Loving, Loved” 72 times. When a person gets a revelation of the true Grace of God he will live Holier by accident than he ever could on purpose! I urge everyone to check out this 20 min teaching on the true Grace of God, go to the web site click on April 6 2011 teaching or April 5
Link Edited by Admin.
John,
Glad you enjoy our posts.
However the link you gave is to a Charismatic evangelist who believes multiple charismatic doctrines including the false gift of “tongues” and the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” as a second “work of Grace.”
These are false teachings therefore I have deleted the link to the video. We do not advertise Charismatic teaching/teachers on this Blog.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hello Jack:
This morning Bruce posted a comment at my blog under the current article titled What is Lordship Salvation; And Why Does It Matter? He noted the good discussion you are having here on LS.
I am setting up a hyper-link from my blog to this article so that my readers can access it.
Kind regards,
LM
PS: Hi Jan! JanH is a regular at my blog and has contributed several articles as well.
“He apparently either ignores or does not understand the two natures (old and new) of the believer and the free will we have to be obedient to the Lord or not.”
Exactly right! Here is a sample from JMac
“I believe it is a serious misunderstanding to think of the believer as having both an old and new nature. Believers do not have dual personalities…there is no such thing as an old and new nature in the believer…. Salvation brings about a radical change in the nature of the believer…The old man has ceased to exist.” (Freedom from Sin, pp. 31-33.)
LM
Thanks Lou,
I appreciate your dropping by, commenting and linking to my Blog. I really appreciate our mutual friends Bruce and Jan — with their brilliant discernment. (I also appreciate all of my wonderful discerning friends who read and comment).
A couple of friends who formerly worked for me said they enjoyed meeting you at Jim Scudder Sr’s Grace Conference, Tom Cucuzza and Yankee Arnold. (All three are now Doctors but I knew them way back when they were just Jim, Tom and Yankee, all great men of God by and for His Grace).
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Yes, the books of Corinthians are a strong testimony against the claims of Lordship Salvation. Despite their problems such that Paul had to address them as “of the flesh” (1 Cor 3:1), not once did Paul call their salvation into question. We’re studying 2 Corinthians at church and last week finished chapter 12 last week — 2 Cor 12:21 in particular stands out as an especially blatant passage against the LS idea of saving repentance as requiring a turning from sin.
Hi Lou!
Hi Stephen!
Wow, the gang’s all here!
JanH
Stephen,
Thanks for stopping by. You are absolutely right about 1st Corinthians. One wonders if the LS folks have even read the book much less studied Paul’s exhortation to the Brothers in Christ at Corinth. The two books of Corinthians are excellent examples of the eternal standing we have in Jesus Christ and the disobedient wishy-washy state we can have in our daily lives (which is abhorrent and guaranteed to engender discipline and chastening from the Lord — yet not cancelling our wonderful eternity in Christ). God’s Amazing Grace!
Stephen, please subscribe then come back and visit with us again. Peruse other similar articles using our search bar on the upper right. Lots of posts on “lordship” philosophy.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack:
Thanks for the warm welcome and your stand for truth in the face of Lordship’s insidious spread. I think it was three years ago I met Tom and Yankee, good men. I may be at the conference this year for a visit with friends.
Kind regards,
Lou
Thanks Jan, the more the merrier.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
St. Matthew 19:16-30 The law is no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit. It is imprinted in our minds, and God in our heart. Jeremiah 31:31-34 It’s important to know that we’re no longer under the law, but Jesus didn’t come to make the law void, he came to fulfil it so that we can live our lives freely and holy in the law. The law establishes what to do and what not to do. Yes, we’re no longer bound by the law, but by grace…but don’t forget that it’s impossible to live a holy life outside of the law. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are *not* under the *law*, but under *grace*? *God forbid*.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The fact that Jesus paid the price imprinted the law in us so that we won’t have to force ourselves to follow it, we will be guided by the Holy Spirit to correction so that we may live a holy life. St. Matthew 5:17 The fact that Jesus paid the price re-connected our severed connection (from Adam and Eve) to the Father through him (Jesus Christ). Isaiah 53:1-12 1 Corin 15:20-22 & 45-49 Romans 6:5-11
I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to follow the scriptures as they have back in the day. Times change, but God never does. Malachi 3:6
Jesus preached the gospel of grace, yeah, we all know that…but Jesus also warned people about hell. Luke 12:4-5 Matthew 10:28
America is so lost in the loving part of God that it’s forgotten that God abhors things that proclaim everything that he’s about. If you love God, wouldn’t you follow his commandments? 2 John 1:6
America has forgotten who the true God is and that he HATES those who practice lawlessness. God does not love us for who we are, but who we are IN HIM. There are many scriptures which defend this statement and knowing what type of person I am, I’m going to want to dig up many if I even begin to describe the truth about this statement. God didn’t come down to let us keep living the way we were, he came to SAVE us. If God really loved sin, would he have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Would he have killed so many people who practiced lawlessness, witchcraft, idolatry, etc? Has God ever outright killed any of his children unless they outright disobey something he’s spoken to them? God loves his children, and you are not his child if you do not accept Jesus Christ. Plain and simple. You cannot serve two masters. St. Matthew 6:24 If you’re a born again Christian and sin, is it okay to not to repent? God clearly says that there are those who will honor him with words, but their actions speak differently. Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:7-9 The bible says to test the spirit. 1 John 4:1-6
If you truly love someone, will you not warn them where they will end up if they do not repent? We all fall short of the glory of God, and if you sin, you repent. Even after you’ve given your life to Christ, if you continue to sin, you continue to repent…until you’re perfect as Jesus was, you continue to repent and pray for deliverance and that you learn from your mistakes. Nobody is made perfect overnight from giving your life to Christ. Whether it’s pride, envy, jealousy, anger, rage, etc. There’s nothing wrong with preaching about continual repentance until you’re made perfect.
I see nothing wrong with Paul’s message except for the fact that it may be too strong for watered down Christians who live in America this day in age. We must go back to the basics and honor the most high God in everything we do, living the life our heavenly Father wants for us. Again, being radical for Christ in the right way is good because he’s preaching the un-watered down truth to kids who NEED to hear the truth! The world is drawing away from God, ignoring the word and the bible states that we should LIVE in it! It’s gotten to the point that Christians are no different from the world and the bible says to be SEPARATE! I’d rather have someone correct me where I’m wrong rather than tell me what I’m doing is okay because THAT IS LOVE. Correction is love because you know where they’re going if they continue to practice sin. Instead of blogging about how we hate how honest some preachers/pastors/evangelists are, why don’t we all meditate on the word and live the life we’re supposed to in Christ? The life God wants for us, not the life we want for ourselves? Are we not only here for a season, to preach the gospel? This is not our home, we’re here for a short time so proclaim the kingdom of God while it’s at hand. Know the truth, and preach the truth and don’t spend so much time discrediting a man who only wants to further our heavenly Father’s kingdom. I’d understand where the animosity is coming from if he wasn’t quoting scriptures, but he is! He isn’t lying! Again, we all sin and make mistakes unless we’re made perfect in Christ. What matters is what you will do AFTER you’ve sinned and what you will do to stop it.
God bless you all and I went on rambling a little because it’s a bad habit lol. I hope maybe through the gospel I may have opened someone’s eyes, even a little. I’m no scholar and I’m not proclaiming to be roiling in the Holy Spirit yet, but I’m trying and that’s what God is looking for…those who want to further his kingdom and live a life for him, not for ourselves. Admitting you’re a sinner even after you’re saved when you sin is what God is looking for. We all fall short of the glory of God, but it’s by grace we are saved.
*America is so lost in the loving part of God that it’s forgotten that God abhors things that proclaim everything that -isn’t Holy-.* Sorry for that misinterpretation, it’s very late and I am tired. God bless
1 John 1:6-10 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Malik:
Thanks for stopping by.
As you said at the end of your long entry, you were rambling quite a bit and pretty much all over the map theologically and topically. It all had a Calvinist/LS flavor to it. Perhaps you are not a full-blown Lordship Salvation guy, however.
Anyway, let’s just look at a brief quote from everything you said and deal with that. You said,
“We must go back to the basics and honor the most high God in everything we do, living the life our heavenly Father wants for us. Again, being radical for Christ in the right way is good because he’s preaching the un-watered down truth to kids who NEED to hear the truth! The world is drawing away from God, ignoring the word and the bible states that we should LIVE in it! It’s gotten to the point that Christians are no different from the world and the bible says to be SEPARATE!”
First, see any of Jack’s many blogs on Francis Chan and you will see how “radical” Lordship Salvation teaching has ruined many lives (see, in particular: http://expreacherman.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/grace-under-fire-the-fallout-of-lordship-faith-teaching/
Second, please focus on one word in your paragraph and then you may begin to understand what this blog site is all about. The word is, “SHOULD.”
Ephesians 2:10 says, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Yes, we will all agree that true believers should serve the Lord faithfully—it is the right and biblical thing to do. But IF a believer does not live a life characterized by obedience and faithfulness to God, God will not kick him out of the kingdom. Lordship Faith teachers like Washer, MacArthur, Chan, Piper, et. al. would declare such a believer as, “never having been saved to begin with.” These men have no right to make such a judgmentally condemning proclamation. Only God truly knows the heart. Listen to a response that I gave on another discussion site to someone who wrote a similar treatise as yours:
Briefly, and I will operate under the assumption that your motives are honorable, here is a nutshell response:
Yes, of course there is an instaneous transformation of a person’s life when he comes to salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Eph. 2:8-9). 2 Cor. 5:17 says, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” And, he now has the Spirit of Christ living right inside of him!
Now, if you are really asking, “Mustn’t there necessarily be an array of good works and other noticeably visible changes to PROVE one’s salvation?” the answer is NO. Are good works a good thing and pleasing to God? Absolutely! Are good works always an indication of true belief in Christ? Not necessarily. Here are four camps in which a person might be categorized:
1. A true believer in Christ who lives for the Lord and produces fruit (pleasing to God and the proper way for a Christian to live).
2. A true believer in Christ who produces little or no fruit—Rom. 4:5 (Lot; the saved thief on the cross; Samson; the Church at Corinth; the Church at Laodicea, for a few examples). [Don't try to use James 2 as a retort: James was unmistakably writing to believers, emphasizing the quality of true belief, not the reality of belief.]
3. An unbeliver who does “good” works. Do they save him? NO. Examples abound, particularly in the liberal Hollywood community. Typical “good” causes include: protecting the environment; feeding the hungry; rescuing the whales; drilling wells in Africa; animal rights advocacy; Habitat for Humanity. Some of these are fine causes, but none of them saves the soul.
4. An unbeliever who does no good works.
So we see that good works are not a good indicator of true belief in Christ.
Pastor Jack put it so well in his blog on MacArthur and Lordship Salvation (see: http://expreacherman.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/john-macarthur-lordship-salvation/ ): “MacArthur’s Lordship salvation is not Biblical. To be sure of our salvation we need not look at our fruit—we believe in Christ and then look at the verse, I John 5:13. Our proof of our salvation is in Scripture not in our behavior or our fruit.”
Bruce, thanks for a great detail answer to Malik.
Malik, I pray you will consider what Bruce wrote and trust Jesus Christ alone as your Savior, realizing that good works are desired in every believer but certainly are NOT an indicator or determining factor for salvation as the LS preachers proclaim.
Paul Washer, JMac, Chan, Piper, et al are preaching a false message and according to Scripture, not just their message but they are accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
This also answers your several comments on other posts.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
so do the words…(which I take it you subscribe to…”once saved…always saved”) show up in scripture.
Or is it an inference without any regard to the warnings which should serve to alert someone who has mouthed the “prayer”?
Alan,
Thanks for dropping in. I am not sure of your point but I will try to answer.
John 10:28 illustrates just one of many promises, Jesus said:
And I give unto them eternal life;
That is “once saved.”
and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
That is Jesus’ promise of “always saved.” There are many, many more.
Your last paragraph I do not understand.
What “inference, warnings, what alert and what “mouthed prayer”? Please clarify what you mean.
What do you think one must do to be eternally saved?
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Alan,
Regarding your question, search if you like, but you will not find one instance in which Jack or I stated that, in your words, “mouthing a prayer,” equalled salvation. The Bible declares the way of salvation quite clearly in Acts 16:31: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Other similarly perspicuous texts on salvation include, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16-18, John 6:28-29, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 (the gospel) and Titus 3:4-7.
No, Alan, mouthing a formulaic prayer, walking an aisle, raising a hand, being baptized, joining a church, coming forward, making a public statement of commitment or promising to turn from sins have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. The Bible says that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Now, once we are ALREADY SAVED eternally, then by all means, serve God wholeheartedly because it is the right, proper and Biblical response to God for his gracious gift of eternal life (Ephesians 2:10 says that it is what we “should” do). By the way, when God gives us eternal life it is by definition eternal, not temporal!
Bruce
Sorry for the itallics; I’ll have to see what is causing that.
Thank you for your excellent articles! I especially appreciated the article on Paul Washer.
Some time back, a friend emailed me one of his videos praising it highly. I was appalled. I couldn’t understand how anyone could buy into what he was saying.
After some research, I found someone saying he was preaching Lordship Salvation.
I’d never heard of it before so I started studying it. That led me into studying Calvinism. Wow, what a sad and depressing theology.
I was shocked at how many well known men believe in this. What a shame.
As for my friend, she bought into what Paul Washer was saying, hook, line and sinker. And she became extremely angry that I would question anything that he was saying, which really shocked me. I thought we were exploring truth. Guess not.
Sharon
Sharon,
Thanks for allowing me to post your email as a comment. We appreciate your discernment and pray you will visit with us again.
Yes, Washer is a purveyor of evil doctrine. We will pray for your friend to see the Truth.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
The more I have read of these comments, the more it has occurred to me how critical discernment is and how much the enemy delights in error. Errors need errors to sustain themselves.
Jan H said (regarding Washer)
“He apparently either ignores or does not understand the two natures (old and new) of the believer and the free will we have to be obedient to the Lord or not.”
If someone does not understand the two natures of the believer, he will make one or all of the following errors:
1. He will evaluate (judge) other professing believers by their behavior
2. He will evaluate (judge) himself based on his behavior
3. He will test himself to determine if he is in the faith based on his behavior
4. Any assurance he has of salvation will be based on his own quantification standards, rather than on the imputed perferction of Jesus Christ
5. He would have to change his requirements for salvation as his behavior changes, or he would have to drift in and out of assurance
6. He would have to change his opinion (judgements) as to the salvation status of others, based on their changes in behavior
7. He may not be able to effectively witness to someone, because his testimony would point to behavioral changes
8. He would have to disregard the encouragements, exhortations, rebukes and warnings in the Epistles as being unnecessary
9. He may not understand the differences between salvation and rewards
10. If he is disappointed in his behavior, he may become despondent
John,
Your analysis is on target.
Looking at your details and their beliefs, one would wonder if/when/how a Lordship “salvation” proponent could EVER have any assurance of their salvation since any “hope” they have is based on their works/behavior.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Hi John,
Excellent analysis of many of the harmful aspects/results of Lordship Faith teaching. Regarding the issue of assurance of salvation, I once made the comment to a pastor that Lordship Faith a.k.a. Lordship Salvation teaching literally destroys assurance of faith for many individuals. His reply was something along these lines, “Well, when someone comes to me having doubts of salvation, I counsel them to go into another quiet room, think about your life and standing, pray to God and basically iron it all out with him.” I think that this approach is not helpful [it may even cause more harm] because such an individual is already suffering from an unhealthy over-introspection. So the pastor is counseling her to heap more unhealthy inward focus on top of her existing introspection. I would, instead, counsel the person to think back in her life to a time when she trusted Christ Jesus alone by grace through faith for salvation. If she can confidently point to such a time or event, then I would counsel her to stand firm in her faith in Christ based, not upon her own feelings which may change like the wind, but rather upon the finished work of Christ on the cross and upon His promises in Scripture (John 10:27-30, et al.).
To read more about the deleterious fallout of Lordship Salvation teaching and about how it leads to unhealthy introspection, see the following article:
http://www.freegracealliance.com/pdf/DRIVEN_byB_Bauer.pdf
Bruce
Thanks Bruce! I think that doubt is the child of LS/Calvinism and other false doctrine. For those who are not saved, Satan wants them to think that something other than faith in Christ is required for salvation. He gets lots of help from the churches. For those who are saved, Satan wants to confuse them regarding the Gospel and the sole basis for their salvation. Again, he gets lots of help from the churches. Anytime one looks to himself and his lifestyle for assurance of salvation, he is looking in the wrong place.
Bruce, I just re-read your article “Driven”. I think it is right on target and points out how destructive LS is. I know, from personal experience, that LS distracts the unsaved from trusting in Christ.
Paul Washer said “The Gospel is to repent of your sins and believe the Gospel. ”
That doesn’t even make any sense. If we translate this into every day language that he implies, then the good news is to stop sinning and believe the good news.
He never actually says what the good news is… I haven’t heard the sermon for years and don’t really want to trigger flashbacks to my legalistic depression so I’m not going to go watch it again.
Isn’t the good news that Jesus died for sinners, forgave us our sin, that we died with Him, and that He lives in us and through us?
If I believe that good news, then obviously I have repented. Unbelievers don’t believe that. Believers do. Whether or not I prayed a prayer is inconsequential. Do I believe that Jesus died for me? Absolutely.
You got it, Luke. I would only add (and I’m sure you know, but for the sake of others reading who might not, I say this [just a couple of weeks ago, I also neglected to include essential truths]) that for a sinner to be saved, a complete understanding of who Jesus is (God in the flesh); what He did (laid down His life to take all my sins upon Himself, and that by His being sinless, He was able to satisfy the wrath of God by paying the entire world’s debt in full by shedding His blood and dying on that cross); and lastly, but most importantly, that He lives (God the Father raised Him from the dead on the third day) must all be believed for salvation.
I repeat your perfect response: Do I believe? Absolutely.
Luke,
Welcome
Yes you seem to have the Gospel of Free Grace correctly. I am sorry you had to endure the depression of thinking you had to change your behavior rather than simply changing your mind in order for you to make that decision to trust Jesus Christ as your Savior.
That IS freedom in Jesus Christ!!!
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Luke, good choice not to intentionally re-expose yourself to the LS lie by going back and watching it (the Washer sermon). I am exposed to enough of the LS nonsense day-to-day, without having to load up on it intentionally. That is why it is critical to stay away from churches that twist the Gospel or are vague about the meaning of words like repentance.
John:
That is the best advice to give any believer who may be getting interested in a false doctrine. Unfortunately many of these aberrant teachings like LS are couched in orthodox terms, but the twisted definition is not readily apparent.
The Word of God instructs the believer in how to protect himself from errors. Romans 16:17-18.
Lou
Pearl, thanks for your good advice. We are too often neglectful in our statement of the Gospel.
Thanks John and Lou,
Good advice for Luke.. We all need to be strengthened daily by God’s Word.
Lou’s Bible passage is a good one:
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple [unsuspecting]. Romans 16:17-18
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
For some reason, I’m getting 4 or 5 duplicates of new posts. I enjoy getting posts from you but 1 at a time is sufficient. I must have subscribed more than once by accident…?
Please remedy. Thanks, Sharon Nordstrom
Sharon,
Sorry you are having problems — I am not aware that we are able to un-subscribe you.. I will look into it. I believe you must do that yourself from the email comment you receive – for each email address you may have used.. and then re-subscribe just once under one email address.
Thanks for being a friend and subscriber.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Pingback: Accursed or Innocent? Lordship “Salvation” Teachers. | Notes From A Retired Preacher
This is Paul’s story of conversion:
Link removed by administrator
Note that he himself was saved by a “cheap grace” quickie Gospel presentation.
Greetings Intersectionvictoria!
Thank you very much for joining our discussion today. The site administrators have made the decision that there would be no more links allowed to Paul Washer videos, other than the initial link demonstrating Washer’s connection to Lordship Salvation teaching. Readers are certainly free to search out his materials through Google, if they wish.
Please join us again soon.
I am appalled by the person who compiled this page, not only does she not know what she is talking about, but she does not know Scripture; “ Nowhere does the Bible say we have to repent” ??? WHAT THE… There why more than 19 Scriptures on repentance!!! Same on all of you who says Judge not lest you be judge, but the whole page is about judging Paul Washer, be VERY CARFUL of COMMITNG the INPARDENOBOL SIN, by saying something is not of GOD WHEN IT IS!!!!
It took all of ten seconds to see that Washer is a man with serious problems of carnal anger and rage. He talks about fruit but cannot see his own, and because he is a legalist (that is what lordship salvation is) he will lie to himself and call his fleshly fury righteous anger. He speaks repentance but in ungodly rage. This misrepresents the character of God. It is clear that Washer never knew the Lord so is either not a Christian or is carnal – that he denies that a Christian can be carnal is even more dangerous, for he is trapped by this. It is clear he seeks to terrify people as he is terrified. but this drives people from Christ, thus he will pay a terrible price because despite his own rhetoric he refuses to repent, and even cannot.
Repentance is a gift of grace, and the Lord the Spirit, as my counsellor, is leading me thereupon. Knowing this I see that Washer is counterfeit, and this will only lead to a rejection of the proper repentance that is a gift of a loving and patient Father.
My own conversion was a Damascus road encounter, but I fell away from Christ into legalism, and madness and despair was my life for years thereafter. Washer was not around when this happened, but his kind of preaching is what caused it.
Washer is also of the will of the flesh. The only kind of response that can be engendered by his screaming and ranting is fearful frenzy. Repentance is never produced by this, neither obedience, faith nor discipleship. But Washer et al are deadly dangerous as he sets himself up as the antidote to the gross heresies of the emergent church or the charismatic abuses of a Benny Hinn. But in fact both are wrong, yet Washer is more dangerous for he distorts biblical doctrine at more crucial points, namely repentance.
Even if one agreed with his teaching, his methods are only counterfeit. Like the Pharisees, placing colossal burdens on people, making no genuine attempt to enter the Kingdom and stopping others from doing so, though I no longer fear him; I fear for him.
Elanie,
Thanks for commenting — but surely you did not read or understand the article. Note: the phrase “Repent of sins” for salvation is NOT in God’s Word (ref KJV Bible).
Repentance is NOT a turning, change of life but a simple mind change about the object in discussion. We have written several articles about Repentance, the false and true. Search our web site. (Right side-bar)
Please read the Washer article without prejudice and understand exactly what we have discovered about Washer. Praying for you.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Steve,
Welcome.
You have analyzed Washer quite well, whether he is honestly mistaken or deliberately preaching error, only he and the Lord know for sure. But we warn.
Nonetheless, error is error and we intend to expose it and preach salvation by Grace alone through faith alone in the Risen Savior, Jesus Christ alone. No good works needed to prove our faith to the Lord. However, as so many scriptures tell us, every believer SHOULD walk in good works — not to be or stay saved but because we ARE saved.
Ephesians 2:8-10
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, Thanks for the welcome. I only heard of Paul Washer about a year ago, and on the net. But I myself have had an extremely long battle with total legalism; and I owe the fact that I have not died insane (that is how extreme it was) to the counsel of the Holy Spirit. He has been far kinder and more patient than any one else I have ever met and certainly vastly beyond what I could ever expect. I thank God that my freedom was sufficiently realised at that time that I was able to reject Washer on a first hearing, otherwise, had he been around in the public eye when I was converted (about the same time as he was for we are about the same age and were both converted at university) I would have surely despaired and died. I mean this literally. The agony was that total.
AS for Lordship Salvation, my awareness of sin is such that I can only say that I can submit to the Lordship of Christ ONLY by being saved from each instance of my rebellion by free grace, that is to say by the personal intervention of the Holy Spirit of Christ my Saviour, as I admit said rebellion to Him and be led to repent of it. But LS is not saying this. As such it is a doctrine of despair, and believe me, I have had many years of despair.
Hello Steve!
Thank you for sharing your testimony with us today. We rejoice with you that the Lord rescued you from the potential grips of Lordship Salvation teaching by his grace. And we rejoice that he has led you by his Spirit to live a life characterized by confident assurance, rather than living a life of doubt, dread and fear, the latter being so common to those who have fallen prey to Lordship Salvation teaching.
Please check out the many articles we have here. I think that you will find them enlightening.
Blessings,
Bruce
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
This seems pretty clear to me.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS and of faith toward
God,
This one is pretty clear too-
CLEAR AS WELL
GALATIANS 3:23-27 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. (24) Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (25) But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. (26) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (27) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Hulon,
Welcome to our ministry on the web.
You are right — Scripture is clear in context — that is not always true with man.
Saved by Grace through Faith, live and be disciplined by Grace.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
My prayer is that people really get to know GOD, He is not some mongrel who beats newborn babes for messing up, babes in Christ are just like newborn humans, they need food and protection from their Parent to survive and they must be fed as they cannot feed themselves and generally baby Christians do as our babies do they eat and poop and all we do need to do is clean them up and love on them as they grow. They eventually learn to sit up, then crawl, then try to stand and more times than not they fall when they try to stand, do we beat our babies for trying to stand? Heavens no we encourage them to keep trying until one day they take their first steps and we rejoice when they do. Then while taking those first steps the always stumble and fall, do we then beat the snot our of them for trying to walk? No we pick them up, dust them off and say “lets try this again” and then in no time they are walking under sturdy legs and the next thing we know they are running. Our Father is the same way with us, where do we think we got that pattern from, everything is from HIM. 1 Corinthians 14:1 is meant for the church as a whole not just a few, we should be a people of encouragement, exhortation, and comfort as verse three says. Pursue love, which is GOD since HE is love, desire spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy. Just think of going into a church that actually was like this when you walked in all they did was love you and encourage you to pursue Christ and never let the stumbles and struggles in life deter you from doing so, just keep going after HIM.
Deuteronomy 1:30-31 The LORD your God, who goes before you, He will fight for you, according to all He did for you in Egypt before your eyes, (31) and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.’
Hulon,
Thanks. Yes — and my prayer is that the unsaved will understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ and make the decision to trust/believe in Jesus as Savior — so that they may grow in the knowledge of Christ and God the Father.
2 Peter 3:18
2 Peter 1:2
You are right, the Lord treats believers in Jesus Christ as His children — because we are.
Galatians 3:26
It is tragedy that some folks, ignorant believers and searching unbelievers strain to follow such false teachers as Washer, Francis Chan, John MacArthur, Rick Warren and too many more. The Christian life by God’s Grace is a blessing to all believers.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Yes always praying for the lost.
Numbers 6:24-26