Are All “Christian” Religions Teaching Lordship “Salvation”?

By Jack Weaver

It is sadly evident that virtually every “Christian religious” system ever formulated by mankind (men and women) has veered terribly from those four vital Biblical Gospel points. All “Christian religions” now seem to contain the corrupt seeds, if not the full blown growth and fruit of Lordship “salvation” (LS) as the centerpiece of their teaching.

We here at ExP have written and commented on hundreds of articles documenting errors in organizations and churches, Presbyterian, Southern Baptists, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, Churches of Christ, et al; and by teachers, featuring some of the more obvious and egregious perpetrators of LS such as Spurgeon, Francis Chan, Rick Warren, Paul Washer, David Platt, John Piper, John MacArthur, A.W. Pink, R.C. Sproul, Billy Graham, Al Mohler, Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron, ad infinitum. (Find them.. search Box on the top right column >>)

We will take the liberty of quoting from our good friend, ExP Co-Administrator, author and commenter, Bruce Bauer, and our good friend, author and commenter at ExP, John.

John quotes from Clear Gospel Campaign, one of the very best descriptions of the not-so-subtle lie of Lordship “salvation”:the perversions of the Gospel of Grace is the performance of works, the promise of works, or the evidence of works as a necessity for salvation.”

We should use that guideline in our critique of all teachers, thus separating those who would twist or change the Truth of God’s Grace-Gift of Eternal Life in Jesus Christ alone.

John quotes further from Clear Gospel Campaign:

“Ultimately, however, there is no theological distinction between corrupt systems of theology that require works, such as water baptism, to be performed prior to gaining salvation, and corrupt theological systems that require the promise of future works in exchange for salvation. Any gospel presentation that makes, as a requirement for gaining eternal salvation, repentance from one’s sins, committing one’s life to Christ, making Christ the ‘Lord’ (master) of one’s life, becoming a disciple of Christ, and other equivalent statements that require a promise of future behavior is heresy.” (Romans 5:8; Titus 3:5)

We would add that according to God’s Word, the teachers pushing these false doctrines are accursed. (Galatians 1:8,9)

Another pearl of wisdom from John:

“Since the Bible unequivocally teaches salvation by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, I [we] can readily dismiss any teaching that seeks to introduce works (the performance of works, the promise of future works, or the evidence of works) into the salvation equation.”

And then John commends Bruce on his excellent article on David Platt which really gets to the core of Lordship “salvation.”

Particularly striking [is this] quote from Platt:

“To be born-again, one must repent, turn from sin and self, and believe, trust in Jesus as the Savior who died for us and the Lord who rules over us.”

[John's] comment: This is really the crux of LS. Platt says we must not only trust in Christ as Savior in order to be born again — no, he says we must also “turn from sin” (works) and accept Jesus as Lord who rules over us (implicit obedience – the promise of future works) in addition to believing. This is exactly what is being taught by Billy Graham and the SBC.

Purveyors of LS have turned the Good News into Bad News!

Our message:

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

As Scripture says — and is frequently quoted by our good friend, Holly Garcia: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [honest, suitable, worthy]“ 1 Thessalonians 5:21

The Gospel is GOOD News << Click

103 responses to “Are All “Christian” Religions Teaching Lordship “Salvation”?

  1. It seems that people just cannot understand that prophesy and mystery cannot mix, and that law is not grace and that grace is not law. The “world” system will put you to death thinking it is doing service to god, the “world” is the religious system and things are the same as they were 2000 years ago. We have all spiritual blessings right NOW, but the flesh has not been fixed!!!

    Most “religion” I see is geared toward fixing the flesh instead of focusing on things above in Col 3. Most have not cast out the bondwoman and reckoned the slave woman and her son as dead/crucified/finished.

    Everyone’s still preaching at the flesh trying to get it to do something it will never do. Rom 7:18 is TRUE, John 3:19 is true, the flesh is never going to improve and until we die to the law we cannot live for God – Gal 2:19.

    Acts is a transitional book, the old was fading, the new was manifested at the cross, but the understanding those in Acts had was very much 2 Cor 3 in my opinion.

    I’ve yet to find a teacher that I agree with on every topic, it seems one can learn some things from some places, and other things from others, yet the Spirit/Word is the only teacher.

    Casting out the bondwoman seems basic, yet most are living as slaves with no fruit in Gal 5, yet everyone’s a “fruit inspector” in “religion” and they’re looking at fleshly fruit instead of the fruit in Gal 5 which you can’t see with the eyes.

    We walk by Faith not sight, the unseen – not the seen. Rest in Rom 8:39 if nothing else. I’m frustrated with religion, and left it some time ago. I recommend everyone here do the same, and STUDY for yourself, just because some preacher said something doesn’t mean it’s true, or just because some commentary said this or that doesn’t make it right. I thought Timothy was saved? Why then did Paul tell him to study to “save” himself and them that hear him??? It seems people make “saved” mean “justified” or “redeemed” or “sanctified/set apart” or “reconciled” or “born again”. Saved is the same as delivered. Deliver yourselves with DOCTRINE! Thanks for the blog jack, it’s been helpful in casting out LS. Blessings, Rob

  2. Great article. Who isn’t teaching LS, either directly or subtly? I don’t personally know of any churches in the entire area where I live, other than the one church I’m a part of, that doesn’t teach LS. I know that some people are in the situation of not having even one non-LS church in their area.

    Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

    Take your crumb while you can, while there’s still a crumb without leaven to eat.

  3. John Clendenon

    Do you have some key LS quotes from the list of LS preachers you named?

    John Clendenon

  4. Rob,

    Welcome, glad to have you visit ExP any time.

    Thanks for that interesting comment. And your last paragraph, “Yes,” as you intimated, Timothy was “saved” eternally long before Paul wrote that first letter to him, where the scripture referencing your statement is:

    “Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” 1 Tim. 4:16

    You are right. Paul is saying, “Timothy, “save” meaning, deliver, protect and keep yourself whole as well as those who hear you with DOCTRINE.” As always — context when interpreting Scripture is key. “Why?” some may ask. Because as we read the first chapter of 1 Timothy, Paul addresses Timothy as:

    “Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.” 1 Timothy 1:2

    The LS folks thrive on taking verses out of context to shove their philosophy on the unsuspecting and gullible.

    Come back soon, you will find many free Grace friends here.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  5. Jack, in addition to those false religions that teach LS, there are many more pastors and churches that claim to believe in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, yet allow books by LSers to be brought in and taught in their churches, that sell such garbage from their church bookstores, that have daily devotionals and articles on their websites from LSers, and that regard LSers as comrades in arms in helping to fulfill the Great Commission.

    It is unwise and unscriptural for a believer to have any part in promoting or tolerating false gospels. It is particularly bad for any pastor to do these things, or to encourage his flock to “eat the meat and spit out the bones.”

    John 10:12-13: “But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.”

  6. Jack, John, and Bruce.

    After a few days of being scarce (company in town) it is sure good to read this today. Lordship teachers love teaching on the ‘narrow path’ and the ‘broad way’ but they seem to miss that they have broadened their way with works, and they have re-defined the gate to be works + Jesus + works = salvation…

  7. John Clendenon,

    Thanks for visiting and commenting again.

    Yes we have a plethora of quotes — too many to list here.

    That is why we suggested in the article that you go to our Search Box, upper right column and enter the last name of the one whom you wish to investigate. The search will list articles with that name either in the title or the body of the article. Once there, you may also then find quotes in some comments by doing a search “CTRL F”Find” in your Windows browser. Most of the names are there, listed with quotes, etc. In a previous comment, you asked about Blackaby — his philosophy and questionable site are listed.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  8. Holly,

    Glad to have you back.. You are right.. works + Jesus + works = Lordship “salvation!!

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  9. Jack, thank you for the hireling passage, it is so close to home for me in so many reasons. I continue to thank the Lord for you all preaching the Word, in proper context and sound reasoning.

  10. John,

    Thanks for the important reminder. Well said with great points.

    Those supposed “free grace” churches/preachers who compromise their congregation and listeners behind the back — so to speak — with books and CDs from false teachers are probably worse than the ones who blatantly and proudly proclaim LS, since the “free grace” congregation must assume the whole church is “free grace.” We have heard from several who experienced just that. Satan is tricky and the master of deceit.

    Thanks for your contribution to the article!!

    In Jesus Christ, Jack

  11. Holly,

    The Hireling quote is from John…. and it is so appropriate!!

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  12. I wonder why it is so easy for the enemy to get men to add works to the gospel? There are so many ways in which this deadly addition is added to the gospel message. I do believe most churches have some form of LS or works Gospel. That or many get Christ and the Bible all wrong and are useless anyway (Crossless gospel, cults etc). Broad is the way that leads to destruction is likely a result of trying to earn salvation. The atheist is on his own and same for the agnostic. People that add works to the gospel are not trusting in Christ alone and are on their own. The fact is that our salvation is already paid for. There are precious few however that believe salvation is truly received as a gift by grace through faith.

    Jim F

  13. Jim, you said: “People that add works to the gospel are not trusting in Christ alone and are on their own.”

    My comment: What stark truth that is.

  14. @ Jack,

    Thank you for the encouraging words Jack. I think as long as it’s called Today, that today is the day of salvation. I love that we have Eph 1:4 and that everyday I am delivered as long as it’s called today, until this mortal (that died in Adam) puts on immortality today is another beautiful day to rest in the provision of my Lord who is now Christ Jesus. Amen, all glory to the Lamb. Yes, Timothy and all the rest of can rest by understanding doctrine. I don’t know much, am learning as I’m taught. This blog was truly helpful to me a few years ago when I was condemned by LS friends but being condemned was the BIGGEST blessing I EVER received as it drove me to study. Now I more peace, joy, rest and security because of the condemnation that was a blessing.

    Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the kind words. Grace & Peace to you,
    Rob

  15. Jim F,

    Thanks — you are right: “People that add works to the gospel are not trusting in Christ alone and are on their own.”

    The worst part is that they are on their own but are not aware of it or the consequences. They have been deceived and lie to.

    Hence our (and your) efforts to bring them in so they can read, consider and believe the Truth of God’s amazing free Grace.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  16. Rob,

    Thanks for your wonderful testimony about being rescued from LS. We are so blessed that the Lord used ExP to help you in some way see Truth. That is our desire, our goal and purpose.

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

    Rob, we pray the Lord will continue to bless you richly in all things Grace!!

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  17. One of the largest areas to evangelize is in churches

  18. d taylor, you said: “One of the largest areas to evangelize is in churches”

    My comment: No doubt. Many of the most ardent church-goers have never had the gospel clearly presented to them. Many others hear it through the works add-ons that they have always been taught.

    These folks need to hear the good news!

    Isaiah 52:7: ” How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!”

    Romans 10:15: “And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!”

  19. I have a question not sure if this is the correct post to ask: I have been just rethinking this name that many people use when speaking about Jesus. They often use Jesus as His first name and Christ as His last name. But upon closer study of this Christ = Messiah and that is I believe used as The Christ or The Messiah. The point I guess I am trying to say is, at least to my understanding The Christ/Messiah is never use as a last name for Jesus (in the Bible) but as the title of the promised person God said he would send and it is that name The Messiah that Jesus would say he was. I just bring this up here going along with misapplied application of verses and meanings in the Bible that can be found in churches.

  20. d taylor, I know what you mean. However, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to use the two names together. There are quite a few verses in the NT that use the names together, including the very first verse, Matthew 1:1.

  21. John thanks for your thought. I guess what i was thinking toward, is not advocating to stop using the names together, but a better understanding of what the names together mean. Take the verse you posted Matthew 1:1 when looked up in the Greek, Christ equals anointed or anointed one or also Messiah. I was wondering, lordship salvation people use Lord a lot making Christ lord of their life etc… I do not speak with many lordship salvation people but it seems like i hear less their use of Messiah when speaking of Jesus. Actually i have not heard a lordship salvationist personally use Messiah when speaking about Jesus and that is interesting since when Jesus came the first time that was what he came to prove that he is the promised Messiah (along with offering the Kingdom to Israel). It seems like they (lordship salvationists) jump right to the Lord area of Jesus life which i believe is for the believers life not for the unbeliever who is being offered a chance to be given eternal life by Jesus. I just see the Bible placing an order in this way first for the unbeliever they understand that Jesus was the Christ and by faith, gives eternal life to all who will believe in Him for it. Then and only then can the once unbeliever, now believer begin to study and learn about the lordship of The Messiah.

  22. d taylor, interesting points. There is an article by Charlie Bing called “Lordship and False Followers”, linked below. It makes the point, in examining Matthew 7:21-23, that many people recognize Jesus as Lord, but not as Savior.

    http://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes.asp?id=52

  23. d taylor, I know what the Lordship people use frequently is Romans 10:9 (confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus…) and most say Jesus AS Lord. And then they go into the big teaching about Slave (a promo for John MacArthur’s book), but the Lord Jesus means, title: LORD = God, The Messiah, and JESUS =Jehovah is salvation.

    It shows clearly that Jesus IS God. That’s the part that has affected me in that passage, especially with John MacArthur’s wisdom of words in kyrios, then his explanation of kuros and he subtly gets you thinking along his lines. Just another thing to think on.

  24. John, I think it was either Yankee Arnold or Dr. Hank Lindstrom I watched recently that also mentioned they ‘call’ Him Lord, Lord (twice) and they do all these works…

  25. John the article makes good points
    Holly Romans 10:9 is very much abused i have read a few good write ups that explain the salvation in Romans 10:9 is a physical salvation. the first part of 10:10 and 10:14 answers what saves a person spiritually. But they (lordship people) refuse the faith alone salvation offered in these verses.
    Have not heard of MacArthur’s book slave before. he must be trying to say a christian must be a slave to Christ to truly be a christian. I believe God calls believers children, sons i am not sure in the Bile are believers ever referred to as slaves.

  26. Hi D. Taylor,

    There’s an article on MacArthur’s book at Expreacherman.com:

    http://expreacherman.com/2011/01/09/john-macarthurs-new-apostate-book/

  27. Hi D. Taylor, yes, basically in a nutshell, according to MacArthur, if we are not the right kind of slave, we are not His…

    I think depending on the version, there is slaves of God, slaves to righteousness, or Christ, but I remember Bruce’s review, which he shared in the link, is good and I believe goes into that.

    Have a great day in Him!

  28. Califgracer thanks for the post; MacArthur sounds like those churches that say they have the one true way with his making the claim of the discovery of the long lost meaning of doulos.

  29. Jack, regarding the subject of this article, I found an interesting quote from “Must Faith Endure for Salvation to be Sure” by Tom Stegall. In particular, Stegall’s comment that people “were reared on ‘doctrines of demons’ applies to so much of professing Christendom today.

    “Within the early church, genuine believers were falling away in apostasy through demonically inspired false doctrines, until there was a departure from “the faith” on such a grand scale that the “Mother Church” could no longer be identified as the true body of Christ, consisting of His own regenerated members. With succeeding generations of professing Christians, the percentage of those who at one time actually possessed “the faith” grew smaller and smaller. Eventually Christendom became engulfed with unsaved professing Christians who never had “the faith” to begin with in order to depart from it. As the ranks of succeeding generations swelled with people who never once believed the truth of the gospel but were reared on “doctrines of demons,” the institutionalized church gradually became the receptacle of so much that is “antichrist.” It eventually became the habitation for every foul and unclean spirit (Mt. 13:24-32; Rev. 17:1-18:4). Such is the heritage of Romanism.”

  30. John,

    Interesting quote from Stegall.

    The decay he describes appears to me to be the heritage of all so-called “Christian religions” in general. It is my understanding that Romanism was never Biblically correct. However, I suppose there were some folks therein who trusted Christ alone as Savior in spite of the RC hierarchy and false message from the beginning.

    There has always been a remnant of true believers (apart from Romanism) who preached the Truth and passed it along to us today.

    And there are always the Calvinists, LSers and other assorted religions whose goal is to tempt us away from the Biblical Truth of free Grace. It happened in the Apostle Paul’s day. Several dissension and splits in the church are recorded. For instance, when the legalists came into the church teaching one could not be saved unless he was circumcised in the manner of Moses (Acts 15). And in Galatians 2:11-12, when Paul withstood Peter to his face for his legalistic tendencies about not wanting to be seen eating with the Jews. Paul squared Peter on that so we presume there was no immediate split there but similar legalism is still represented today in those who call themselves “Christians.”

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  31. Jack, I agree that Romanism was never Biblically correct. And, like you, I think that Stegall’s quote applies to be the heritage of all so-called “Christian religions.” That would seem to me to include most of the mainstream protestant denominations.

  32. John,

    Like you, I cannot think of a single mainstream “denomination” who would qualify as having a clear Gospel presentation with no works added. We only find very few non-mainstreamers who are not tainted with the poison of Lordship “salvation” by “good works” or deceptively preaching one (or more) of Calvinism’s TULIP.

    It amazes me to see the “Staid Old” SBC, with their myriad of inherent LS errors, beginning to compound those errors by adopting some flavor of Calvinism and/or other faulty doctrines contrary to God’s Word. But I suppose it fits — Error begets Error.

    We thank the Lord for you (and so many others here at ExP) who stand firm and earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the Saints. (Jude 1:3)

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  33. randomuserrcb77

    @ D Taylor

    I found out some time ago that “Jesus Christ” and “Christ Jesus” reflect different things. It seems you stumbled onto that. What the difference is is worth looking into. It’s Col 3 vs Rom 7 IMHO….

    Christ = something (the King, the Prophet, the Priest, requires more than “Jesus” which is the same as Joshua which is “will deliver His people from their missing the mark” to some degree…)
    Jesus = Man
    Lord = God

    I post on what these three things mean would be good for me as I’m no expert, and have nothing more than an understanding that Christ Jesus speaks of a God who became man, and Jesus Christ as a man who is God.

    I don’t know….????…????

    Heb 4:12 speaks of soul vs spirit, and maybe you can see the difference between the order of words there? I don’t know…. Just thoughts………

  34. Southern Baptist false presentations of salvation 1. invite Jesus into your heart. 2. pray to receive Christ.
    in their news and views that is published once a week (in Mississippi) they have started running this in the paper every week
    Need a light: (used with the verse) John 8:12
    Simply share the following prayer with God in your own words:
    1. Lord, I admit that i need you. (i have sinned)
    2. i want forgiveness for my sins and freedom from eternal death. (i repent)
    3. i believe Jesus died and rose from the grave to forgive my sins and to restore my relationship with you. (i believe in Jesus)
    4. By faith, i invite Jesus Christ into my life. From this time on. i want to live in a loving relationship with Him. (i receive Christ as my savior and Lord.)
    then the ad ends with (John 1:12) and this statement
    If you make a decision for Christ today, contact a southern baptist church for spiritual guidance.
    This is just a big false presentation of what a person must do to have salvation.

    I had a good friend that we were each growing in our study of the Bible and then He began also asking a cousin of his about areas of the Bible. Well his cousin is a John MacArthur person. I began noticing different changes in his thinking of verses and i found out about his using a MacArthur Bible. I confronted him with this erroneous teaching and i was looked at like i had lost my mind saying that Macarthur was teaching a false gospel. So i just parted ways, as i have had to do with most everybody in the church. when confronted with trying to explain that well known people like MacArthur, Graham, etc are not teaching a correct gospel, i am looked at, as i have lost my mind. people are following so many false teaching our pastor invited (the died and went to heaven person) don piper to the church and people lined up to here the false teaching of this man it was unbelievable that when confronted with the information that this person is speaking falsely, people just refused to accept that.

  35. d taylor, yes. The SBC preaches the ubiquitous false gospel of works for salvation. Following is from the SBC website on how to become a Christian. Notice the works put onto the prospective believer in order to earn his salvation – commitment, surrender, turn away from sin.

    “Are you ready to accept the gift of eternal life that Jesus is offering you right now? Let’s review what this commitment involves:

    I acknowledge I am a sinner in need of a Savior – this is to repent or turn away from sin

    I believe in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead – this is to trust that Jesus paid the full penalty for my sins

    I confess Jesus as my Lord and my God – this is to surrender control of my life to Jesus

    I receive Jesus as my Savior forever – this is to accept that God has done for me and in me what He promised

    If it is your sincere desire to receive Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior, then talk to God from your heart.”

  36. Jack and Bruce,

    Thank you for the kind words. (And sorry for the extraneous stuff at the top of my comment. Oops!)

    Kim

  37. Here is a gem from Dr. Stanford’s “Handbook of Personal Evangelism” that answers the question Jack posed in this article: “Are All “Christian” Religions Teaching Lordship “Salvation”? Please pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

    “Religions are man made. Two Latin words make up our English word “religion;” “re” and “ligio.” “Re” means to “go back,” and “ligio” means “to bind.” “Religion” then means “to bind back.” Religions are man’s efforts to bind himself back to God. They are Satan inspired. Satan delights to blind man into thinking he could somehow earn eternal life through his good works. “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness…” (II Cor. 11:14,15). People have Satan pictured as having horns, tail, pitchfork, and wearing a red union suit. Satan doesn’t want people to know what he is really like.

    The plan of salvation is not a religion but is the message of what God has already done to bring us back to Him. Satan gives the lost a religion that, when he hears it, will blind him to salvation. When you witness, always point out that the GOSPEL is NOT a “religion.” We are not discussing man’s philosophy but God’s Word…

    That a person cannot save himself by his works…or help Christ to save him by his works…or help keep himself saved by his works, will be one of the most difficult things for a person to believe. It is also one of the most IMPORTANT things for a person to believe…because if a person does not believe this, he is not saved. God says you are not saved by your works but by grace through faith.’

    “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work” (Rom. 11:6).

    GOOD WORKS FOR SALVATION IS SATAN’S COUNTERFEIT OF GOD’S GRACE FOR SALVATION. THIS ISSUE OF “GRACE versus WORKS” WILL ALMOST ALWAYS BE THE MAIN THING YOU WILL NEED TO DEAL WITH. HOW TO OVERCOME THIS SATANIC BARRIER WILL BE DISCUSSED THROUGHOUT THIS BOOK.

    Satan does not want the lost to sin. He wants them to be fine, well-educated, well-liked, moral, religious people. It is a better advertisement for him. He offers them a “heavenly” way to go to hell.”

  38. John,

    Thanks for those powerful quotes from Dr. Ray Stanford.

    Reminder, the entire “Handbook of Personal Evangelism” is available for download at our header link above, “Share Your Faith.” Link:
    http://expreacherman.com/share-your-faith/

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  39. I noticed you mentioned Spurgeon as a LS’s. If you look at his core beliefs you’ll see he is only a 1 point calvinist, not a hyper-calvinist. Look up Spurgeon at the Jesus is Savior website and you’ll see that he believed in free grace. Macarthur, Comfort and Platt have used quotes from this man to justify their views, but just like they do with the bible, they twist Spurgeon’s quotes.

  40. Miguel, anyone who says Spurgeon did not teach Lordship salvation is either not aware that perseverance of the saints is Lordship “salvation”, is ignorant of what Spurgeon really taught, or is lying.

    I have studied the matter at sufficient length to satisfy myself that Spurgeon’s teachings are to be avoided altogether.

    I have read the articles on Spurgeon at the website you mentioned. This website has “cherry picked” a few Spurgeon quotes and “explained them away”. By taking Spurgeon’s comments out of their broader context, they have made them sound innocuous.

    The reality is that Spurgeon often taught blatantly Calvinist/Lordship “salvation” dogma of the most strident variety. Whether he is a hyper-Calvinist, or simply a Calvinist, makes no difference. Spurgeon was a false doctrinaire. Spurgeon believed in perseverance of the saints, which is THE POINT at which LS and Calvinism intersect.

    I absolutely DO NOT RECOMMEND any website that says that Spurgeon did not teach Lordship “salvation.” HE DID!.

    Here are some quotes from Spurgeon’s “In Defense of Calvinism”:

    “I suppose there are some persons whose minds naturally incline towards the doctrine of free-will. I can only say that mine inclines as naturally towards the doctrines of sovereign grace”

    “I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.”

    And from Spurgeon’s “The Soul Winner”:

    “True conversion is in all men attended by a sense of sin, which we have spoken of under the head of conviction; by a sorrow for sin, or holy grief at having committed it; by a hatred of sin, which proves that its dominion is ended; and by a practical turning from sin, which shows that the life within the soul is operating upon the life without.”

    “Another proof of the conquest of a soul for Christ will be found in a real change of life. If the man does not live differently from what he did before, both at home and abroad, his repentance needs to be repented of; and his conversion is a fiction.”

  41. Johninnc

    I agree with you wholeheartedly, Spurgeon taught Calvinism and staunchly defended it.

    Jack mentioned this Turn or Burn sermon of Spurgeons, and I hadn’t read it until then, although I had seen his comments regarding Calvinism BEING the gospel.

    When I read this, I thought, “This man had to have been one powerfully depressed and discouraged man one moment, and a pompous and prideful one the next.” There is just no way to achieve what he preaches in this sermon…

    Jack: “Just in case you are not aware, here is the actual text of one of Spurgeon’s worst sermons, ‘Turn or Burn’.”
    http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0106.htm

  42. Miguel, I too am aware of those sites, at least two I can specifically think on, that defend him because it’s too hard to extricate themselves from all the people this ‘prince of preachers’ deceived for so long.

    Here are a couple quotes.

    SPURGEON QUOTE: “O sirs, In God’s name let me tell you, it is not the giving up of one sin, nor fifty sins, which is true repentance; it is the solemn renunciation of every sin. If thou dost harbour one of those accursed vipers in thy heart, thy repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul.” (from Turn and Burn).

    SPURGEON QUOTE: “There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every-day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will your now bow your heads, and say, “Lord, I repent,” and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If ye do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against the God that made him. Repentance to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.” (not only Lordship but impossible standards…)

    SPURGEON QUOTE (I find this one very ironic) “Repentance,” my dear friends, is the gift of God. It is one of those spiritual favors which ensure eternal life. (if it is a gift of God then what can we do about it?)

    SPURGEON QUOTEon Calvinism: “Calvinism did not spring from Calvin. We believe that it sprang from the great Founder of all truth.” (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 7, p. 298).

    SPURGEON QUOTE“I question whether we have preached the whole counsel of God, unless predestination with all its solemnity and sureness be continually declared.” (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 6, p. 26).

    SPURGEON QUOTE“You must first deny the authenticity and full inspiration of the Holy Scripture before you can legitimately and truly deny election.” (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 3, p.130).

  43. The “Jesus is Savior” website has many doctrinal errors. It does teach that Spurgeon wasn’t a calvinist, but of course as has been demonstrated, Spurgeon was a calvinist through and through. That “Jesus is Savior” website is also anti-Israel, and they teach the “gap theory” of Genesis. There’s a lot of problems there.

  44. All – if it isn’t otherwise obvious, “johninnc” is just me, “john” with a new username.

  45. Thanks for clarifying it for me guys. I always thought it was a little iffy to hear a calvinistic quote from him then here him say something about free grace. He’s probably similar to JMac who says one thing and to protect himself twists it when questioned. Just like it says in the bible these false prophets are going privily bring in damnable heresies. BTW these articles are really great, the more I read them, the more free I feel. The church I go to teaches something similar to LS, but they have the original gospel intact, but after I got saved they scared me into obedience in a very “kind” way.

  46. Abe – you’re right about that website having doctrinal errors, but similar to you guys, he believes in free grace and exposes the wolves. Keep exposing error guys for babes in Christ like me. I’ve only been a Christian for 4 months now, or maybe it’s been 14 months. Anyways my mom who’s been a christian for years was enslaved to the whole obedience and losing salvation thing. Somedays she would just be in agony thinking where her children and rest of her family were going to spend eternity, but now that I’ve showed her the truth she says she feels much more at ease. May the grace of God and his blessings be with you brothers and sisters.

  47. Very great to hear, Miguel. Stand in the truth of the Gospel. The Lord bless you by His grace.

  48. Miguel, God bless you as you grow in His grace, through His Word! Watch out for the wolves, take heed to His doctrine. Praying for some great Christian men who are discerning to be in your circle of friends. God bless you!

  49. To all,

    To add to JohnInNC‘s note — not only is he our long-time friend and commenter, but John has been added to our staff as a web site co-Administrator. We are very pleased.

    We are thankful for John, his Bible wisdom and scholarship.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  50. Welcome John! Great to have you onboard the administrative staff! Blessings as you continue to serve the Lord.

    .

  51. Thanks Bruce. I’m looking forward to it.

  52. :) This is nice to hear… God bless and continue to bless each and every one of you, and your family’s. In His love.

  53. Glad to hear it John. I wish you the best in it!

    Jim F

  54. The more grace I hear, the more alive I feel. I have a question though, this isn’t me trying to attack you guys but can someone clarify me what this verse means:
    Romans 8:1a “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,”
    You see, I understand that part and I love it, but I need this part clarified to me
    Romans 8:1b “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
    When I first read that, the first thing that came to my mind were the lusts of the flesh and if I continue to walk in them then I might be condemned, but recently I read all of Romans 8 and my conclusion was that people who don’t have the spirit in them can’t please god even if they tried (i.e. false religions). So spiritless people no matter how hard they try are always walking after the flesh whether it be to do good works or bad works. While we who have the spirit can walk after the spirit, I don’t always walk in the spirit, I even choose to walk in the flesh at times which doesn’t always have a pretty outcome. Those were just my thoughts on that verse and if one of you guys can verify it for me I will be very grateful. May we all rejoice knowing that all (past, present, and future) our sins are forgiven.

  55. Hello Miguel,

    I may get some disagreement on my explanation of this verse from some of my Grace colleagues. This is one rare occasion (Romans 8:1) in which I part company with the King James only crowd in favor of the NASB rendering of Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” (End of verse) It is generally indicated that Part B, that you cite, was an addition coming from later manuscripts.

    Setting that issue aside, keep in mind that designated chapter divisions are fairly modern additions to the Biblical text. If you look at the wording of Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation . . .,” the therefore clearly links the passage with the ending portion of Romans 7. This is the section in which the Apostle Paul expressed how he, too, struggled with sin and the flesh even though he was clearly a believer (saved eternally). In Romans 8:1, Paul rejoices that, in spite of his battles with sin, he can rejoice that being in Christ Jesus (eternally) he can never be condemned.

  56. Miguel,

    I think also that verse 8:9 help clarify that we are not in the flesh but the Spirit. 8:10 helps us understand that we still have sin and 8:34 shows it is Christ that justifies. We are justified in Christ but not by the law. I think that the main point is that the law condemns but Christ justifies. Those of us that are saved have the position and ablility to live and grow by grace with the fear of eternal condemnation.

    Hope that helps.

    Jim F

  57. I found the following quote today, from the late Ohio State football coach Woody Hayes:

    “Any time you give a man something he doesn’t earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.”

    While this statement applies on a certain level, maybe this mentality is what keeps people from believing that Christ paid the full price for their sins.

  58. Hi John,

    Very insightful comment on the Hayes quotation. Perhaps that “have to work for it and earn it,” a good thing in the work world and in sports, is indeed the underpenning motivation for the LS movement.

  59. One of the biggest mistakes (at least I believe) was when people (churches) started giving platforms to athletic people (really any successful position business, music art etc..) that are successful in their fields that carry the label Christian without really questioning what do they actually know and believe about salvation, the Bible. Here in MS, FCA has a large impact on a lot of youth through the state bringing together all sorts of Christians(by name) and beliefs catholic, presbyterian, methodist, baptist etc.. and gives platforms to the coach, quarterback, basketball player, baseball player, without ever questioning what the speaker is saying, just because it is at FCA they must be teaching truth and so forth. Erroneous teachings are being passed around from person to person without them really finding the actual truth of scripture. The “Not a Fan” book was a popular book I believe in FCA because the title related to sports.

  60. d taylor, great point.

    I remember hearing one of the former Braves pitchers talk about his conversion to Christianity on the 700 Club. He said he had prayed the sinner’s prayer a bunch of times, but it wan’t until he was prepared to be obedient to Christ that he became a Christian.

  61. I wonder if the “synagogue of Satan” referenced in Revelation 2:9 might pertain to the shadow religions masquerading as Christianity today:

    Revelation 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

  62. johninnc
    to me this verse is saying people who claim to be Jews are persecuting the Church of Smyrna, i take this as an actual event that happened to the church of Smyrna. i say that because this is one of the two churches that Christ has no condemnation for , the Church of Philadelphia is the other one.
    i believe all parts of each church can be found in each church age with one Church dominating that time period so that could be true of some area of this church age.
    for me the laodicea speaks to this church age the hot are people who have by faith alone in Christ alone become believers, the lukewarm are the lordship salvation type of person who is placing their faith in their performance and that encompasses many false beliefs: turning from sins to baptism,etc.. and the lukewarm may also include the various liberal biblical beliefs out there. this again is just a few thoughts.

  63. Thank d taylor.

    You may be right. I was just looking at the language – “synagogue”, which means assembly – and thinking about all of the regional flavors of false religions out there. In Utah and surrounding areas, it’s Mormons. In the Northeast it’s Roman Catholicism, in the Southeast it’s SBC, etc. Each of these groups would officially shun those who believe in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

    If I were to give my testimony in most of these “churches”, I don’t think I would be welcome any longer.

  64. D talor wrote :
    ” the lukewarm are the lordship salvation type of person who is placing their faith in their performance and that encompasses many false beliefs: turning from sins to baptism,etc.. and the lukewarm may also include the various liberal biblical beliefs out there.”

    I had this thought tonight hit me
    The “Not of yourselves crowd ”

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  65. Curtis you posted The “Not of yourselves crowd” i am thinking you are saying the crowd that is depending upon their efforts and actions to gain eternal life.

    also note the Gift (Eph 2:8) here is directed towards salvation/eternal life and not faith (like many lordship salvation and calvanist say faith is a gift )
    Eternal Life is the gift

  66. hi I studied the different churches one time. Its very simple. Jesus is talking
    to the laoedians about returning to fellowship. They were on fire for him but along the way started to regress to become luke warm. He is,nt talking about
    spewing them out salvation wise. He is going to bring discipline to their church if they do not repent (fellowship ). The different things he brings to their attention is they had became like their city. Historically its very interesting. I can,nt remember all the details of their town but it was a rich town and also had lukewarm waters. They had become self relient and without depending on the lord. They were leaving him out of the picture. He was wanting them to realize that true riches are what they can receive at the reward seat of Christ. Everything they
    were doing was self effort. The church would cease to exist if they kept on the way they were going. Personally speaking they were,nt pleasing him down here in the natural. And not earning real rewards in heaven. If you look
    historically at all these churches in rev and the towns they lived in the lord is relating to things they understand that we won,nt unless we study back to their town and why he mentions certain things. The church in sardis was extremely interesting. In that town if you walked with dirty clothing in their town centre your name was blotted out of the town register. Jesus was reassuring the beleivers he will never blot out their name from the book of life
    like the town council used to do, if they messed up. Plus an overcomer is anyone who is born again. In 1 john he mentions Who is he that has overcome anyoneborn again is automatically an overcomer by the fact that ishow god sees us in the spiritual (positionally). Anyway hope that helps shed some light. Maree Mays

  67. d taylor, you make an excellent point. Romans 6:23 makes in crystal clear that the gift is eternal life, not faith:

    Romans 6:23: ” For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

    Also, Ephesians 3:8 speaks of the gift of grace (again, the gift is not faith):

    “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”

    As does Romans 5:15:

    “But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.”

  68. Maree,

    You are right — the seven churches were actual churches in Apostle John’s day.

    Each represent churches in various stages of apostasy down through history.

    I believe all seven churches exist today in a lesser degree but the seventh church at Laodicea represents the “last days” apostasy of the present day “church.”

    Yes, those who “overcome” are believers.

    “Spue thee out of My mouth,” contrary to Lordship “salvation” teaching, does not mean losing salvation (which is always eternally secure in Jesus Christ) but shows Christ’s displeasure with all that they are doing and preaching contrary to Scripture.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  69. Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

    I love how the KJV protects the act of Faith, it is the Faith OF Christ and not my efforts in Faith. when we Trust ( Rely, Depend,)Christ paid for our sin debt we receive the Faith OF Christ to keep us for all eternity it is His finished work that keeps us.
    The LS Crowd attempts to take the ability to Trust Christ away and replace with natural human effort , to decide when we can receive the love of Christ.
    In some way shape or form the natural man wants that Fig leaf religion for justification

    2 verses of scripture below the LS crowd have such a hard time with among all the others

    Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

  70. Maree thanks for the post and information.
    i am seeing this clearer now, i believe now i see the hot, lukewarm and cold are all types of believers.
    i was thinking this letter was addressed to the physical (or as some people say the universal ) church in this church age which contains believers and nonbelievers.
    but the letters are addressed to believers only and the message is about believers only.
    correct me if i am seeing this incorrectly

  71. ok so re-looking the Laodicea church. Hot is good believers and cold is good believers. the lukewarm believers are the one Christ does not approve of and are in for divine discipline.
    and on another note Revelation 3:20 is not a salvation verse this verse is speaking to believers.

  72. D Taylor,

    My personal analysis would be:

    A Lukewarm church (Laodicea) is prosperity seeking, weak on doctrine, wishy-washy and indecisive; poor, blind and naked because of it.

    Hot is good – no doubt where they stand.

    Cold is not good, but at least it is obvious where the cold church stands (probably sitting on the sidelines having committee meetings).

    In other words, be hot (preferable) or cold (not preferable) but don’t be indecisive and weak-kneed (lukewarm).

    My opinion.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  73. Jack
    here is why i am thinking hot is good and cold is good
    all three types are believers hot , lukewarm and cold
    only lukewarm is distasteful to Christ and He say he wishes the lukewarm were either cold or hot ( Rev 3:15 ) . If cold was bad why would Christ wish lukewarm who is already bad, to be cold if cold was also bad.

  74. D Taylor, yes some do say that both cold and hot are good and the lukewarm is bad. The reasoning is that hot water has a purpose and so does cold. It is like having a hot coffee turn lukewarm or a cold soft drink turn lukewarm. You we tend to reject both once they became lukewarm- useless. Kind of like salt that has lost its savor. Or even like those in James that had no works to show for their faith. They were still saved but we useless for the purposes God wanted to use them for.

    There are also many preachers that describe it the way Jack does above. It for sure is an interesting passage.

  75. Good day,
    I see it slightly different. Its just my opinion (not completely sure).

    First, it drives me nuts when I hear someone say you will not go to heaven if you are lukewarm. They define “lukewarm” as not being a “super-duper” christian. I wonder how hot the church at Corinth was????? I believe he was talking to the church and not its individuals.

    Anyway, Jesus defines “luke warm” as thinking they are in need of nothing (verse 17).

    I am thinking (because all church goers have NOT believed the gospel) that MAYBE they were not saved. Why did Jesus say, it is harder for a rich man to enter heaven? I think because they think they have it all figured out and are in need of nothing. Jesus said I am found in weakness.

    Although I can certainly see the other points about potential rewards in the passage as well as disciplining those he loves (verse 19)

    Good discussion.

    Happy T-day.

    God Bless,

    Preston

  76. I think the lord was rebuking them like Jim said and also to the world they
    were being carnal and bad witness to the unsaved he would rather they be
    cold in the sense that saying they are children of god but in attitude and action not behaving like it he would rather they deny belonging to him than
    putting unbeleivers off becoming Christians. That’s why being lukewarm is
    so yuk nonchristians won,nt listen to a Christian who tries to witness to them
    why they aren,nt acting like the lord. Remember lot when he tried to tell his
    son in laws to leave Sodom after the angels had told him Sodom was going
    to be destroyed they did,nt believe lot because his witness was so bad.
    Maree

  77. To the interesting Lukewarm discussion,

    There are many varied opinions of this verse. We study here, as always, in the context that eternal life is eternal and no one will ever lose their guaranteed salvation. We therefore know the verse is speaking of a church comprised of believers in a deplorable “lukewarm” condition.

    Christ said to the Laodiceans and each of the Seven Churches, “I know thy works…” (what they should be doing to serve their Savior). Thus we must never determine a person’s salvation or lack thereof from their works or behavior. To do so is the very essence, method and means of the Lordship “salvationists.”

    Christ is addressing Believers since He speaks of their “works.” (Ephesians 2:10)

    Good discussion on serving our Savior.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  78. Good day,

    yes I see the points that were brought up and can not disagree as I have read it several times in the past. What throws me is verse -18 – that thou mayest be clothed.

    During the dispensation of grace “faith alone” which we care currently in, our garments are on; we are currently clothed (in Gods eyes). Though your garments be of scarlet, they will be white as wool.

    Why would Jesus say I counsel thee to be clothed???

    Not being argumentative; just discussing.

    there is a STRONG possibility I am overly dividing the word of truth. :)

    God Bless,

  79. Back to the main thrust of the article: Are All “Christian” Religions Teaching Lordship “Salvation”?

    I sometimes find myself reading comments to popular news articles from people who are professing to be Christians. Very seldom do I read one from someone who appears to understand and believe the gospel. Following are three of the bad ones I picked up just today:

    “When Jesus returns in power and glory, you will see. I suggest you repent of your sins. Believe on Jesus as savior.”

    “Read the Bible, you are right on point. That is what Gods word says, and those who go on living that kind of life style, or those who give approval of it will all burn in hell some day unless they repent and change their ways.”

    “No all sins are not equal. Some like Homosexuality take you to hell: They are called Mortal and venial by the Catholic Church or Deadly and Non Deadly by the Epistle of John.”

    None of the above reflect even a basic understanding of the gospel. But, they do sound like what people are being taught in “churches” of one variety or another.

  80. My goal is not to be argumentative. I truly want to understand ExP’s assessment of the dangers of Lordship salvation. That seems to be a very important topic on ExP as it is covered on numerous pages. I am much more interested in knowing truth than winning a debate so if you can help me with some questions I have about your logic on this topic, I’m wide open to being convinced.

    When Jesus was proclaiming the gospel to unsaved people in Galilee, he said “repent and believe” in Mark 1:15. I found repent and believe in this verse in 4 different translations I checked: NIV, NLV, KJV, ESV.

    In light of Jesus telling the unsaved to “repent and believe” in Mark 1:15, I really would like to understand ExP’s response to a couple of questions.

    1) Was Jesus adding the work of repentance as a requirement of salvation when sharing the gospel by telling them to “repent and believe”?

    2) How is it different when MacArthur, Piper, Chan, Comfort, or Platt uses the same “repent and believe” words Jesus used in addressing an unsaved audience?

    Incidentally, I found “repent and believe” elsewhere in the Bible too. In Matthew 21:32, Jesus said “…you did not repent and believe him”.

  81. Hopefully my first 2 questions from a separate post are approved to be viewable. I have a 3rd question related to the logic used about repentance being required by the Lordship Salvation view.

    If “repenting” is a work, then by the same logic “believing” is also a work. So my question is:

    3) How does the act of “believing” escape being viewed as a work in your view of salvation while “repenting” does not escape being viewed as a work?

    Both are works. I don’t follow the logic. I’m wide open to being convinced otherwise.

    In my current understanding, “believing” and “repenting” are not added works. I believe they just naturally occur when a person is ready to place their faith in Christ, but I think we trip over the semantics sometimes related to faith and works.

    I cannot imagine a completely unrepentant person wanting to place their faith in Christ. Why would such a person desire Christ? Repenting and believing seem to go hand-in-hand as evidenced in Jesus’s own words in Mark 1:15 and Matthew 21:32.

  82. imbanacheck, welcome and thanks for your questions.

    We do not believe that repentance, when properly defined, is a work. When repentance is defined as “turn from sins” or anything like that, the proper Biblical definition has been perverted and repentance has been turned into a work.

    We believe that repentance is required for salvation. You will see this in our “Statement of Faith” at the top of ExP. Please find excerpt below:

    17. Repent (metanoeo) means a change of mind. Repentance is absolutely essential in salvation and the Greek the word repent means a change of mind — from any idea of religion that man may have, to an acceptance of God’s way of salvation in Jesus Christ alone. Repentance does not in any sense include a demand for a change of conduct or “turning from sin” to gain or keep, before or after salvation as that would entail a works salvation message. Acts 20:21; II Corinthians 7:8-10; Matthew. 21:32

    For a further discussion of this point, please see the following sermon excerpt from Dr. Thomas Cucuzza’s sermon series on the book of James (part I:):

    “Well, I thought I had to repent of all my sin.” You can’t repent of all your sin. Number one, what do you mean by repent? Really, it doesn’t even matter. But, the word “repent”, used with salvation means “a change of mind – a change in your thinking.” From trusting in yourself – understanding you can’t save yourself – and understanding Jesus is the only way. That’s repentance in salvation.

    Repentance does not mean to turn from your sin. It says that in the modern dictionaries, but that’s not the Greek word. Metanoeo – meta means “another”; noeo means “the mind.” To “have another mind.” That is literally what it means.

    About what? About believing you could save yourself. And, instead, you understand you can’t save yourself and you put your faith in Christ. That’s Biblical repentance.

    For people to say you have to turn from your sin, that’s you trying to do something to reform your life. That’s works. Well, then people say: “well” – as soon as you get them on that, then they say – “well, you have to be willing to turn from your sins.” What is that? That’s the mindset that I am going to try. What is that? You’re still thinking works for salvation. You’re still thinking works for salvation.

    Friend, salvation does not come until you understand you are helplessly, hopelessly lost. There’s nothing you can do to save yourself. And if God doesn’t do the saving, you’re gonna spend forever in hell. That is when you become a candidate of the grace of God. OK?

    Well don’t you think Christians ought to live right and turn from sin? Yes. But, you said the key word: “Christians”. Not lost people. To say to a lost person “you have to turn from all your sin to go to heaven”, let me ask you a question: Have you turned from all your sin?

    If you go to a church where the pastor says that, go up and ask him sometime – in kindness and humility – say, “pastor, have you turned from all your sin?” See what he says. “Well, I’m trying.” Trying’s not the same as doing it. And, by the way, did you just notice what you said? You are doing what? Trying!

    So, wait a minute! You’re telling me to go to heaven I have to try to turn from all my sins. What is that? That’s works. You’re trying to make it. That’s works. Friend, no! It’s not of works, lest any man should boast. The good news is Jesus did all the work when He died on the cross, and all He asks you to do is to trust in Him that He did that for you. And He gives you everlasting life.

    Now, shouldn’t Christians live right? Yes! Yes, Christians should live right. That’s what James is all about. But, not to get to heaven. It’s because we have the gift of salvation, and we’re going to heaven. That’s grace.

    Don’t put the cart before the horse! You’ll end up in hell!

    Grace. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Not “must” – that would be works. Not “will” – that would be Calvinism. No, it’s should. We should.

  83. imbanachek, repentance is not a work. See previous response.

    You said: “I cannot imagine a completely unrepentant person wanting to place their faith in Christ. Why would such a person desire Christ? Repenting and believing seem to go hand-in-hand as evidenced in Jesus’s own words in Mark 1:15 and Matthew 21:32.”

    My response: People accept Christ because they need a Savior. Someone who accepts Christ is completely repentant, meaning he gives up all other hope of salvation. Again, it is in the definition.

    I would welcome you to read more of the discussion here. You will likely find detailed explanations to your questions.

  84. Welcome to the blog imbanachek you will find no arguments here , what you have found is a Oasis of Grace with believer people who have discovered the “Truth of The Gospel ” it all hinges on how you view repentance either you are Free to be loved by our Heavenly Father or you are working for His Love that has all ready been paid for.

    Curtis

  85. Imbanachek,

    Here is what I have to say to some of your statements:

    “2) How is it different when MacArthur, Piper, Chan, Comfort, or Platt uses the same “repent and believe” words Jesus used in addressing an unsaved audience?
    Incidentally, I found “repent and believe” elsewhere in the Bible too. In Matthew 21:32, Jesus said “…you did not repent and believe him”.”

    (The difference is in how these define repent.)

    “If “repenting” is a work, then by the same logic “believing” is also a work.”

    (Ok, repentance (change of mind) is synonymous with faith in the context of conversion. Neither is a work. We know this because faith is contrasted in the Bible with works of righteousness and it is the only acceptable condition for receive God’s gift of salvation. Turning from sins would be a work of righteousness and this is something that could take place after salvation as we seek to walk in the Spirit. Remember though that the flesh is still with us meaning there will be many times that a believer can and will still sin because we have not yet received our glorified bodies in place of these fleshly bodies.)

    “3) How does the act of “believing” escape being viewed as a work in your view of salvation while “repenting” does not escape being viewed as a work?”

    (Depends on if you define repentance as turn from sins or not)

    Both are works. I don’t follow the logic.

    (No, both are not works as properly defined in context of receiving eternal salvation)

    “3. I’m wide open to being convinced otherwise.”

    (I’m trusting for now that you mean that.)

    “In my current understanding, “believing” and “repenting” are not added works. I believe they just naturally occur when a person is ready to place their faith in Christ, but I think we trip over the semantics sometimes related to faith and works.”

    (Why do they naturally occur? Please elaborate.)

    “I cannot imagine a completely unrepentant person wanting to place their faith in Christ.”

    (I’m taking it that by unrepentant that you mean – unwilling to change and or not sorry. A person has to see the need to trust Christ. That is what the law is for as a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ and the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin debt, but the solution is to then change our mind and trust Christ alone for salvation.)

    “Why would such a person desire Christ? Repenting and believing seem to go hand-in-hand as evidenced in Jesus’s own words in Mark 1:15 and Matthew 21:32.”

    (A person that sees his need and realizes that there is no remedy within himself can receive Christ’s salvation simply by faith. This is repentance. They change from trusting themselves or another source for salvation and instead place their faith in Christ alone to save based on His accomplished atoning work. Repentance and faith are indeed compatible if you define them correctly.)

    Jim F

    Please also see cleargospel.org and their section on repentance. That site goes into great depths on the meaning and context of the word in many passages that it is used in.

    Please also listen if you have time to the sermon by Dr Stringer on my Grace audio page on standforthefaith.wordpress.com and the two by Dr Arnold. They will help answer your questions further.

  86. johninnc wrote: “Very seldom do I read one from someone who appears to understand and believe the gospel.”

    I almost never see it either. What I see is, “Believe in Jesus” followed by a ton of asterisks, those asterisks being “turn from your sins”, “commit to Jesus Christ”, “surrender to follow Jesus”, and so on.

  87. here is scripture to study
    Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

  88. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  89. Curtis, you have brought up a very good point.

    The Bible clearly calls turning from evil ways WORKS. Yet, some continue to call turning from evil ways repentance and say it is a condition of salvation.

    Some Bible translations help the LS community overcome their obvious error (failing to recognize that turning from sins is a work) by changing the Bible. Following are some examples of Jonah 3:10:

    NIV: When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.

    NLT: When God saw that they had put a stop to their evil ways, he had mercy on them and didn’t carry out the destruction he had threatened.

    Notice how the word “works” doesn’t show up in these translations?

  90. curtis, johninnc, Wow that’s INCREDIBLE!
    …another reason we use word for word translations,
    not dynamic equivalents & paraphrases
    “every word” of God is pure Pr30.5, we live by “every word” Mt4.4

  91. “Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”

    Yep, turning from sins is a WORK. As was pointed out, this truth is conveniently missing from the “modern versions”, which are all rooted in Rome’s false gospel, in terms of the identities of those who wrote them.

    And notice even when they did turn from their sins, that wasn’t for salvation. That was to prevent the temporal destruction that God had them slated for. If a person turns from drug use, then they can avoid a possible stroke, for example. But turning from drug use doesn’t get them into heaven.

  92. “That was to prevent the temporal destruction” and with that Abe you are more wise than 95% of the seminaries and Teachers out there , These things are hidden in plain sight to the smart minded people who hold onto their opinions of scripture

    Here Another one of my favorite passages of Scripture

    Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

  93. Lisa jones

    Hi Jack,
    Thank you so much for your grace oasis. I was wondering
    If you would consider going an article about God being
    In control, I am really struggling with this. Since finding a
    Church that isn’t LS or Calvinistic in doctrine I would love
    To hear what you have to say about the topic. I am new to studying
    Scripture and being new means I do struggle keeping context
    And the whole bible view both old and new conventant. I would be so
    Grateful if you would give biblical insight to this subject.
    In Him, Lisa

  94. Lisa,

    Thanks for visiting and your comment. You will find many friends here who empathize with you.

    I will write a comment on the mostly Calvinist phrase, “God is in control.”

    I composed an extensive comment/answer to you but inadvertently hit the wrong keyboard combination and it all disappeared.

    Thanks for your question,

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  95. Lisa,

    This answer may help you understand the tricky Calvinist phrase; “God Is In Control.”

    God IS in control of His creation and sustains it. He controls the Universe as we see in His Word:

    Job 26:7
    “He [God] stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”

    Colossians 1:17
    “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist [are held together]”.

    These things God controls, plus many more, the seasons, the environment.

    But we must understand that “God is in Control” is a favorite quotation used by and derived from Calvinists – to go along with their false “sovereignty” theory, as if everything done by man is under total controlled of God.

    Calvinists believe that God is so controlling that He chooses who will spend an eternity in Heaven or in hell. Nothing could be further from the Truth. It is the Lord’s will that all would be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.
    1 Timothy 2:3,4
    “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

    But every person has his own human will and so we make our own decisions – God may influence our decisions by His Holy Spirit as we are obedient to His word, but He does not control our decisions.

    Here is an article exposing the Calvinist “sovereignty” ploy or theory:
    http://expreacherman.com/2012/03/08/sovereignty-calvinist-and-lordship-salvation-crutch-or-catchword/

    It is God’s will that all mankind would be saved.. but we all have our human nature and will to either believe in Jesus Christ or refuse. (John 3:16-18)

    Believers then who are disobedient to His Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit will be disciplined as Paul tells the very disobedient church in Corinth.

    1 Corinthians 10:13
    “There hath no temptation [discipline] taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

    The Greek meaning of the word “temptation” is “a putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication adversity, temptation and testing.”

    So God does not control our decisions or actions but His will is that we will respond positively — first to his invitation to believe in Jesus as Savior by our faith decision and then, as a believer, respond to His discipline which, by His Grace, will make a way of escape to those believers who do respond positively.

    I pray this helps.. Just don’t fall for the Calvinist phrase, “God is in control.”

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  96. Jack, great explanation of how God is in control!

    God does allow us to make decisions – whether to believe in Jesus as Savior, and whether to be faithful as believers.

    One more verse that demonstrates mankind’s volition to act against God’s will:

    Matthew 23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

  97. Isa 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    When I first read isa 45:7 I was surprised, can you shed light on this verse?
    By Grace, Lisa

  98. Lisa, I had a reader ask about the verse you have cited, with the question “Why did God create evil?”

    Following was my response. I think it might be answering the question you are asking.

    God did not create moral evil. I believe that “evil” in this verse refers
    to “disaster” or “calamity.” I think there is a similar context in Jonah
    3:10:

    “And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God
    repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he
    did it not.”

    The word “evil” is used both places in Jonah 3:10 – to refer to the the
    Ninevites evil ways (morally evil) and to refer to the “evil” (disaster,
    or judgment) that God had said that He would do to them .

    I hope this helps.

    Thanks. John

  99. Hi John,
    Thanks for your answer. Part of the reason I asked is because being new to the bible ( about 2 years) someone suggested that I listen to John MacArthur which I did for about 6 months or so. Below is a quote from one of his sermons:

    He controls absolutely everything. The Bible tells us that God exists and that nothing exists that He does not ordain. Nothing occurs that He does not ordain. Everything is designed by, ordained by, and controlled by God. That is the biblical testimony.

    This has been disturbing to me as it seems that the will of man is discounted here as well as the enemy. I was hoping that you might provide versus that refute this “biblical testimony”
    In Christ Jesus, Lisa

  100. Lisa, MacArthur is to be avoided. He is an enemy of the gospel and preaches an accursed, false message.

    Following are verses that affirm that man can respond, and that God does not control man’s actions:

    Luke 8:12 (satan wouldn’t bother if the lost couldn’t believe)
    Matthew 23:37 (Jesus wanted it, it didn’t happen)
    1 Corinthians 14:33 (yet people are confused)
    Matthew 7:13-14 (Jesus tells people to do this, yet says that most won’t)
    Acts 17:30 (why would God command men to do something if He controls whether or not they will?)
    2 Peter 3:9 (God desires it, but it doesn’t happen. Why?)

    Lisa, I hope this is enough to start to see that MacArthur is wrong.

  101. John,
    I do avoid his teachings now, thankfully because of this website and Dr Cucuzza book Secure Forever. I guess I am trying to understand more fully that God isn’t mad at me and that some of the tough situations I’m experiencing aren’t completely due to his wrath at my sin. Most of my life I rejected the bible, some cause I couldn’t understand it and what I did I read of Gods wrath (old testament) and not love, some because I believed man wrote it. Many years ago I came to believe in Jesus but lived carnally and without the bible, and rebellious toward being judged. I had many Christians around me but mostly felt judged and no one ever attempted to show me scripture. After studying the bible for the last couple of years I feel so stupid, I can’t believe my ignorance. I feel like I let God down and my children. I guess I am trying to understand how this happens. In my heart I don’t believe this was Gods plan, I believe it was my will, other people’s will, and the enemy. But many christians say Gods in control. Understanding that God wants none to perish to me says ALOT.
    In Christ Jesus, Lisa

  102. Lisa, hi!

    You know, Jesus prayed for us to be sanctified by the truth (His Word) and yet, we know some are not in the Word, and are either taking errant teachings of men, or none at all, and without the Word to light up their path, they will stumble. They will not be washed. We know God does not go against His Word, He does not lie, so He does not ordain something He forbids; rape, sexual immorality, drunkeness, covetousness, envy, malice, bitterness, etc., any sin. There is no sin in Him. Calvinists cannot explain their definition of what the ‘sovereignty’ of God means to them. It is not a Biblical definition as we can see throughout His Word. We know that God did not make David have illicit sex with Bathsheba and cause Uriah to be murdered.

    But even what the enemy meant for our harm in our rebellious times in life, I believe the Lord will use to good, we just keep doing our part, to spend time with Him, hearing His Word.

  103. No sin in HIM. I apologize for saying ‘them’ above.

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