(Source: desiringGod website, 9/15/2012: John Piper, article, “Eternal Security is a Community Project.”)
In his recent sermon, “Eternal Security Is a Community Project,” John Piper declares that our eternal security is not based solely upon the finished work of Christ at Calvary (we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone—Ephesians 2:8-9); rather, Piper indicates that a person must keep his or her faith in Christ secure through perseverance: an unbiblical program of doing good works in order to prove and/or maintain salvation—the “P” of the Calvinist acronym “TULIP.” The proper Biblical designation of the letter “P” is PRESERVATION—that is, God does the saving and God does the keeping (John 10:27-30; Romans 8:38-39; 1 John 5:13). But, Piper takes things even a step farther than the standard erroneous Calvinist approach. He adds another qualification to maintaining one’s eternal security. I call it, “The ‘It Takes a Village’ Pathway to Eternal Security.” Listen to the following brief excerpts from John Piper’s sermon (source cited above):
“The doctrine we are talking about today goes by different names and has an urgent and practical application to our life together. Some call it the doctrine of eternal security. And Some call it the doctrine of perseverance. And the practical application is that, whichever you call it, the process is a community project. That is, you and I are essential in helping each other persevere to the end in faith, and not make shipwreck of our souls. Or, as the title of the message says, ‘Eternal Security Is a Community Project’.”
“So point #2 is that one of the essential means of not becoming hardened — the protection against an evil heart of unbelief — is the other believers around you speaking faith-sustaining words into your life. Your family, your friends, your shepherd group. ‘Exhort one another every day.’ That is, speak words of faith-sustaining truth into each other’s lives.”
“So the second point of this theology of perseverance is that God has designed his church so that its members endure to the end in faith by means of giving and receiving faith-sustaining words from each other. You and I are the instruments by which God preserves the faith of his children. Perseverance is a community project. Just like God is not going to evangelize the world without human, faith-awakening voices, neither is he going to preserve his church without human faith-sustaining voices. And clearly from the words, ‘exhort one another’ (verse 13), it means all of us, not just preachers. We depend on each other to endure in faith to the end.”
“Perseverance is the evidence of being born again in Christ, not the means to it. Or to put the same point negatively: If you don’t hold your confidence in Christ to the end, what would it show? It would show that you ‘had not come to share in Christ.’ So the negative of verse 14 would read, We have not come to share in Christ, if indeed we do not hold our original confidence firm to the end’. So you see what this implies about eternal security? It says: if you have come to share in Christ — that is, if you are born again, if you are truly converted, if you are justified and forgiven through saving faith — you cannot fail to persevere. You will hold your confidence in Christ to the end.”
[Comment: Piper declares the standard flawed unbiblical line of—works to preserve and prove salvation—lordship faith teaching]
Piper wrote: “Perseverance is the evidence of being born again in Christ, not the means to it.”
This is such a tiring line of reasoning Piper is using. And it’s everywhere. They don’t want to appear catholic, so, they backload things that way. I’m in a discussion on another board about this same concept where they are arguing the “number of works that prove true faith”. Unbelievable. And not coincidentally, the “number of works that prove true faith” is a doctrine supported by catholics, protestants, and orthodox. They all agree on it. It’s a gem for the ecumenical movement.
Piper also wrote: “other believers around you speaking faith-sustaining words into your life”
That almost sounds like the word-faith movement, where you get what you speak, as they believe. Even if Piper didn’t mean to go there, he went there.
Thanks Abe,
Excellent insightful comments!
It is interesting that I had the exact same reaction as you about Piper’s quote referring to “speaking faith-sustaining words” sounding like the word-faith movement.
Blessings,
Bruce
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Thanks Bruce,
Excellent article, well done. It proves that the Lordship “salvationist”/Calvinist cabal slithers ever forward. And the sad part is that folks are falling for Piper’s syrupy words without questioning.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Abe,
Wonderful observations about Piper and the lies of LS/Calvinism.. Thanks.
In Christ eternally, Jack
Morning Bruce. Thanks for being on the alert to yet another example of spin coming from the religious front.
“It takes a village…” Great observation; this claim ties in very well with liberal politics.
Abe, I paused on the exact same phrase and thought the same thing! You beat me to it…
I hope you are able to persuade folks on the board at which you’re defending the faith. I know debates can be downright vicious.
Unbelievable. It just keeps getting more ridiculous.
Amen! I so agree with this article and all the above comments! My first thought is these men are trying to put people back under Roman Catholicism. Or maybe they just never left it.
Like minds! I had the same Word of Faith take, too!
Hi my name is Richard from California, and was able to get out of Calvinism and lordship salvation through this blog. Thank you. However, with regards to this post, Is it possible that Piper is using the word ‘perseverance’ to refer not to how many works prove salvation, but instead to continual belief in Christ as Savior? If so, then eternal security does not depend on continual belief but on a genuine belief at one point in time in one’s life. Is this correct?
However, since salvation only requires belief, and if one ceases to believe in Christ as one’s Savior, then he has not fulfilled that only requirement for salvation which is belief. What would be the case for one who initially and genuinely believed in Christ as his Savior, then later in life completely rejected Christianity to be true and believes in another god to save him? Is he saved? What if one hates Christ and doesn’t believe in Him and doesn’t want to go to heaven? Will he be dragged to heaven on the day of rapture?One can argue that salvation is by definition eternal, and is applied the moment one believes. However, that eternal salvation STILL requires belief in Christ as Savior just as the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John teach. I cringe for anyone who has believed but then ceased to believe completely and went to a different religion, because despite all the arguments, it’s still safest to believe.
Hi again,
I understand many use John 6:37-45, to defend that the Father will not lose any that was given, and no man can pluck them out of His hand, etc. However, those that will not be lost are those who believe. I suppose the hard question to answer would be, what about someone who believes then doesn’t believes and continues to shift his stance? Does this mean he is saved then unsaved then saved then unsaved, etc? God’s promise is that anyone who believes is secure. Someone who used to believe isn’t one that believes presently. Salvation is a free gift for those that accept it through faith in Christ, but how about for those who accepted it then rejected it, and ceased to believe? Eternal life is a gift of God, but one can still reject it even though he had accepted it in the past.
-Richard
Richard,
Thanks for visiting and your comment.
Please understand that not only does God give every believer ETERNAL Life but these verses also apply:
Be assured, God does not break his promise of ETERNAL life nor his Seal upon believers.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Richard,
You said, “One can argue that salvation is by definition eternal, and is applied the moment one believes. However, that eternal salvation STILL requires belief in Christ as Savior just as the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John teach. ” To answer this I guess you’d have to elaborate on what you are saying that the gospels teach.
Part of the error that guys like Piper spread is the idea of this supposed “continual faith” that must be maintained. He speaks of it in the sense of perseverance. Calvinists will say that God enables and ensures that a believer keeps believing. Piper even goes to the extreme of this talk about the church helping one persevere. The problem is that this Calvinistic idea of perseverance is not found in the Bible. Neither is Arminianism, which seems to be what you are describing when you refer to people going back and forth from belief to unbelief.
Jack is correct in his post above that “…God does not break his promise of ETERNAL life nor his Seal upon believers.” That seal is Christ’s blood and it covers even our future sins.
Hi Pearl,
Great to hear from you and thanks for the great comments. Interesting thought that you brought up. Are there any parallels between liberal politics and politicians and liberal “Christianity?” I’m sure that we could come up with many.
Hope you are well!
Your friend in the battle,
Bruce
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Richard, once a person believes, he is re-generated and sealed with the Holy Spirit for redemption. If he could lose his eternal life, then it really wouldn’t be eternal. And, God would never send the Holy Spirit to hell.
I recommend two things for you to read. The first is an article called “Must Faith Endure for Salvation to Be Sure” by Tom Stegall. I am providing a link to part 9, below.
The second is “The Permanence of Salvation” by Tom Cucuzza, also linked below.
http://duluthbible.org/files/Publications/Grace%20Family%20Journal/GFJ%202003%20PDF/GFJ%202003%2004%20Fall/GFJ%202003%2004%20MusF%20aith%20Endure%2009%20Stegall.pdf
http://expreacherman.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/cucuzza-the-permanence-of-salvation.pdf
“Perseverance is the evidence of being born again in Christ, not the means to it.” I’m sorry but Dr. Piper is wrong. All evidence needed to secure me eternally was given by the Son of God himself. The required evidence has already been presented. The question is “Do you believe this”? Obviously John Piper does not. Calvinists are deeply confused about what is at stake in perseverance. I believe perseverance is extremely important, because it determines my reward, function, and level of honor in the kingdom. My residence in the kingdom, however, is unrelated to my achieving some level of perseverance. The fact that I will be in His kingdom is a settled issue, a finished work.
Good points Bill. I’m glad that you joined us here today. Please come back soon.
Amen Bill, you are totally right.
“All evidence needed to secure me eternally was given by the Son of God himself. The required evidence has already been presented. The question is “Do you believe this”?”
I would love for more people to understand this.
In my day-to-day conversations with people regarding faith, I face more skepticism toward the concept of salvation by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone from other “believers” than I do from non-believers.
So-called “Christian leaders” are everywhere denying the Gospel message with their add-ons. Even ministries that claim to teach that salvation is an unmerited Gift often betray their real belief in salvation by works with back-door perseverance teachings.
If Noah walked among us today, he would be competing against other ark builders, who would consider him a nut for building an ark with only one door.
Thanks Jim and John. Very helpful appropriate comments.
I’ve never heard the line about Noah, John, but it’s a good one. I’ll salt it away in my speaker’s file.
Blessings brothers!
Bruce
John,
I laughed out loud at your “Ark with only one door” comment.. and then realized once more how true, sad and tragic that religions complicate and add to the simple Grace Gospel of Jesus Christ.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Interesting blog here. I need some clarification, though. In your blog posts, you mention that salvation is by grace alone and not by works of our own yet you say that people must make a decision to trust in Christ so then isn’t it also a work to make the decision to trust in Christ? They are doing something (a work) in order to gain salvation/forgiveness. Is that how I’m understanding it?
Kimita,
Welcome to our discussion.
To make a decision to believe in Jesus Christ alone as Savior is not a work. The theory of Calvinism falsely teaches such but Jesus Himself asked everyone to believe, illustrated in this one verse of many:
You have a choice, believe and live or not believe and be condemned. Your decision.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Kimita,
One more quick thought and question.
What is your theory abut how one becomes a believer in Jesus Christ without making a decision to Believe in Jesus Christ?
In Jesus eternally, Jack
Thanks for replying! I think the semantics of the phrase, “make a decision,” is what is confusing since Biblically we are not told to “make a decision” but to believe. My theory on salvation (and it’s not exactly a theory since it’s based on Scripture which is the truth), is based upon Romans 10:9-13–>
“…if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
However, I also know that the Lord draws us to Himself (John 6:44) so there is spiritual work being done that is not of ourselves prior to our salvation since salvation belongs to the Lord. Before conversion, we were dead in our sins and the Lord made us alive together with Him (Colossians 2:13-14). A spiritually dead person can do nothing for himself (as is true in a physical state) BUT as the Lord is working through His word (whether spoken through evangelism, congregations, missionaries, or the word is read by the person), we believe in the Lord and His gospel. I do realize as well that there are people who do not believe in the Lord Jesus and His gospel (this includes many of my relatives as I come from a family of unbelievers), yet as they are presented with the Word, the Holy Spirit can move in their lives so that they too can believe in the Lord at the right time.
Thanks for the discussion!
Kimita,
Jesus Himself says in:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Jesus was lifted up and now draws ALL people to Himself. There is no excuse for one to say, “I was not drawn — or my relatives were not drawn.”
Jesus, speaking of the future coming of The Holy Spirit said:
John 16:8
And when he [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove [convict, convince] the world [everyone] of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:”
Titus 2:11
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,”
Kimita, as a matter of semantics, you are right — the word “decision” is not in the KJV but logically you must realize that one who is persuaded to believe in Christ must decide to believe. As Paul, witnessing to King Agrippa, demonstrates, no one has an excuse before God — except, My decision — I refused to believe in Christ, condemning himself.
In Acts 26:27-28 (Paul witnessing the Gospel to King Agrippa says):
“King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. [28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”
Verse 28 is one of the saddest verses in the Bible — where Agrippa admittedly decided NOT to believe in Christ.
Kinita, if you believe Romans 10:9-13 are salvation verses, which they are NOT, then when you say you must “confess with your mouth” to be saved, that should be even more of a “works message” in your mind than a simple decision to trust/believe Christ.
I would like to direct you to an article written by a dear friend, Dr. Tom Cucuzza, that may help your discernment:
http://expreacherman.com/2012/10/09/can-calvinism-be-proven-by-a-few-partial-out-of-context-verses/
I also direct you to two wonderful FREE PDF booklets by Dr. Cucuzza that may also help. These are: (1) Faith Without Works is Dead - What does it Mean? A detailed study of one of the most controversial passages in the Bible, and (2) The Permanence of Salvation. Twelve Reasons why Once Saved, Always Saved is True.
Thanks again for your questions.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Kimita,
I regret that I neglected the link to the two great, Free PDF booklets mentioned above.
It is here:
http://www.expreacherman.com/2-free-booklets-dr-cucuzza/
In Jesus eternally, Jack
Thanks for your reply and the links. I see you offered a link re: Calvinism however I do not consider myself to follow Calvinism (honestly I don’t know all of the principles of Calvinism – I simply read the Word and study it). I agree with what Paul said as recorded in 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 that we are not to say we are of such preacher/teacher and/or theology for Christ is not divided. I consider myself a follower of Christ.
Thank you for reminding me of those verses in Acts. I did a summer-long study of the book of Acts and one of the verses that I returned to frequently as a prayer for the unbelievers I know is Acts 26:29. I realize that people can refuse to believe in Jesus Christ.
In the Romans verses I cited, the word ‘confess’ in Greek means to say the same thing as another, agree with, declare, profess one’s self the worshipper of one. By confessing with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, I am agreeing to Him being my Lord, similar to Peter’s confession in John 6:68-69. I see how that could be similar to “making a decision” yet the word ‘confess’ is used in Scripture to indicate following the Lord and declaring Him as Lord because we believe in Him (Matt. 10:32, Luke 12:8, 1 John 2:23, 4:15).
The word ‘saved’ in Romans 10:9 is the same word used in Matthew 1:21: “She will bear a Son and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” Is this referring to our initial salvation or the salvation to come (when the Lord returns)? Also, in Romans 10:10, the word ‘salvation’ is the same word used in Acts 4:12: “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name (Jesus) under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
If these Romans verses are not about salvation, what are they about?
Kimita,
I’ll take your word for it that you ” simply read the Word and study it” and are not a Calvinist.
However, on your web site, you recommend CARM, a radical Calvinist apologetic and teaching site. You also recommend Desiring God, John Piper’s web site/ Piper is one of the prime pushers and teachers of Calvinism and Lordship “salvation” (probation) today.
I would suggest you stick to the Bible and remove yourself from at least those two teachers. They are poison.
Here are some suggestions from our friend and author, John:
Following is the conclusion from an interesting article that addresses some of the points that Kimita has raised:
Lewis Sperry Chafer is also quoted by our friend John in the following:
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Kimita, Jack correctly reaffirmed that Romans 10:9-10 does NOT teach that one must make a public confession of Christ in order to be saved. Those that teach that a public confession of Christ is a requirement for eternal salvation are teaching a false gospel. Think about it: If one did make a public confession of Christ to secure his salvation, what would his confession be? it would have to be “I have accepted Christ plus my work of publicly confessing him as my personal Savior.”
Consider this excerpt from “Four Reasons Not to Give an Altar Call” by Larry Moyer:
“One might ask, “But what about Romans 10:9, 10?” There we read, “That if you confess with your month the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Space will not permit me to develop Paul’s argument throughout Romans but the context clarifies the issue. The “saved” Paul is speaking of is not salvation from damnation, but salvation from the dangers of sin in present day living. How does one escape these damaging consequences? Paul’s answer is, “For with the heart one believes unto righteousness.” The words “believes unto righteousness” is a translation of the Greek word for “justified” – the same word used in Romans 5:1. There we read, “Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.” Paul continues in Romans 10:9, “And with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” The point is powerful. One becomes a Christian by simply trusting Christ. But to experience victory over sin, one must be willing to confess Him publicly. Confession is important, but not for justification but instead for living a victorious Christian life. Need help making such a confession? Paul exhorts them to “Call upon the name of the Lord” (Romans 10:13), a phrase that has the idea of worshipping God and invoking His assistance (cf Acts 9:13-14, 1Timothy 2:22).
It is therefore not surprising that Paul continues in Romans 10:14-15 by saying, “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!’”. Note the clear distinction made between a public profession of Christ and believing in His name.
A public confession of Christ is never in scripture made a requirement of salvation. It is indeed a requirement for victorious Christian living, as made clear in Romans 10:9, 10. ”
Next, Romans 4:16 (NKJV) makes it clear that faith is not a work:
“Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.”
One might quibble as to whether Abraham “decided” to believe God or simply “believed” God. Either way, Abraham had a choice in the matter. If he had disbelieved God, it would have been charged (debited) to him as unrighteousness.
Kimita, you said: “yet the word ‘confess’ is used in Scripture to indicate following the Lord and declaring Him as Lord because we believe in Him”
I’m not sure whether you are saying that you believe that following the Lord is required for eternal salvation. It clearly is not. Eternal salvation and following Christ are not the same thing. There are believers who do not follow Christ and non-believers who follow Christ. John 8:31-32 (NKJV) tells us that belief (unto salvation) and following Jesus (discipleship) are different:
“Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, ‘If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. ‘And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.’”
Thanks again for the reply. However, you have cited a friend and author named ‘John’ without any credible description of who this person is and/or to what he is referring. No last name, group affiliation, church membership, etc. and that does not prove to be very reputable.
I appreciate the writings of John Piper along with other bloggers who are part of his organization, and CARM has provided me with much information about false religions (i.e. Mormonism, Islam, etc.) yet as I’ve stated I do not consider myself a Calvinist.
I fully believe Ephesians 2 that salvation is a gift based upon the finished work of Christ on the cross, that it is nothing we can earn and nothing we can lose. For if we did nothing to earn, it how then shall we do anything to lose it? However, confessing Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with believing in Him. You can’t say you believe in Him and not say/declare/type/write/etc. that He is Lord. The same goes the other way – you cannot say you declare Him as Lord and not believe in Him. The same way that grace and faith go hand-in-hand in the Ephesians 2:8 verses you have mentioned above (grace working through faith.)
We can respectfully agree to disagree because from the same quote you ended your last comment with I can easily say for you and your friends/authors as well – out-of-context Scripture can be used to justify any belief, doctrine or theology including your own. The Bible must be taken as a whole. Christ has said He will build His church upon the truth of Peter’s confession of who He is, the bedrock and the ultimate truth that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God (Matthew 16:13-20), from whom flow all the principles and beliefs of life. If He is Christ, Lord of all, how then shall we live? For Him and for Him only.
Kimita, you probably already know this, but there is a difference between being a follower of Christ and being eternally saved.
Eternal salvation comes by Grace through faith in Christ alone – plus or minus nothing. That includes public confession of Christ, allowing Christ to be Lord of ones life, turning from sins, etc. There are saved people who do not follow Christ and unsaved people who follow Christ.
Jack correctly affirmed that Romans 10:9-10 do NOT teach that public confession of Christ (or any other work) are a condition of salvation. If works contributed to salvation in any way, than it would no longer be by Grace.
Romans 10:9-10 reaffirms that one believes unto righteousness (eternal salvation) and achieves victorious Christian living and deliverance from life’s trials through confessing Christ and calling upon Him. See the following excerpt from “Four Reasons Not to Make an Altar Call” by Larry Moyer:
“One might ask, “But what about Romans 10:9, 10?” There we read, “That if you confess with your month the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Space will not permit me to develop Paul’s argument throughout Romans but the context clarifies the issue. The “saved” Paul is speaking of is not salvation from damnation, but salvation from the dangers of sin in present day living. How does one escape these damaging consequences? Paul’s answer is, “For with the heart one believes unto righteousness.” The words “believes unto righteousness” is a translation of the Greek word for “justified” – the same word used in Romans 5:1. There we read, “Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.” Paul continues in Romans 9:10, “And with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” The point is powerful. One becomes a Christian by simply trusting Christ. But to experience victory over sin, one must be willing to confess Him publicly. Confession is important, but not for justification but instead for living a victorious Christian life. Need help making such a confession? Paul exhorts them to “Call upon the name of the Lord” (Romans 10:13), a phrase that has the idea of worshipping God and invoking His assistance (cf Acts 9:13-14, 1Timothy 2:22).
It is therefore not surprising that Paul continues in Romans 10:14-15 by saying, “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!’”. Note the clear distinction made between a public profession of Christ and believing in His name.
A public confession of Christ is never in scripture made a requirement of salvation. It is indeed a requirement for victorious Christian living, as made clear in Romans 10:9, 10.”
[Editor's note: John is a well-respected Free Grace blogger. He is a frequent and regular commenter as well as article writer at this web site]
Kamita,
Regarding the issue of lordship, I refer you to GraceLife Ministries, Dr. Charlie Bing, GraceNotes #41:
“The Lordship of Jesus Christ,” no. 41 – Dr. Charlie Bing
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Dr. Charlie Bing: “Jesus is Lord. No one who believes the Bible denies that. But what does that mean and how does Christ’s lordship apply to our salvation and our Christian life?
The Meaning of Lord
The word usually translated Lord in the New Testament is the Greek word Kyrios. It is sometimes used as a title of respect, much as we would call someone sir. We see this in Acts 16:30 when the Philippian jailor addresses Paul and Silas as “Sirs” (the plural, kyrioi). Lord is also commonly used as a title with the name Jesus Christ. As a title, it not only shows respect, but also reflects who Jesus is. He is the Lord. When the Hebrew Bible was translated into the Greek Septuagint, the Hebrew name for God, YHWH, was usually translated Kyrios, or Lord. YHWH conveyed first of all deity, but implied all the other aspects unique to deity such as Creator, Owner, Ruler, Judge, Redeemer, and Savior.
The Lordship of Christ in Salvation
The Lordship, or deity of Jesus Christ, is essential to our salvation. Consider some of the things that Jesus did for our salvation only because He is the Lord God:
He became the perfect sacrifice for our sins, without spot or blemish.
He gave His life as a sacrifice for all mankind—past, present, and future.
He rose from the dead to live and offer us eternal life.
He promises, provides, and secures the eternal life of all who believe in Him.
It is only because Jesus is in the position of Lord God that He can save us and gives us eternal life. While Lord speaks of His position of deity, the name Jesus speaks of His humanity and role of Savior, because Jesus means Savior. In the name Jesus Christ, Christ means Messiah, the One anointed or chosen by God to be the Savior and King. So Lord is a title that primarily conveys Jesus’ deity. What this means for salvation is that Jesus has the power and authority to save sinners because He is God. What this does not mean is that sinners can only be saved if they submit to Him as the Ruler of their lives. Ruler is only one subset of deity, and it is arbitrary to make that one divine function and position into a subjective demand. As the word implies, salvation requires a Savior. Jesus came to save sinners (1 Tim. 1:15; 4:10) and He can because He is God. Sinners need a divine Savior. It is one thing to say that to be saved a sinner must acknowledge the divine authority that Jesus has as God or as the Son of God. It is quite another thing to say that to be saved a sinner must submit to Jesus as the Ruler of his life. The first acknowledges Jesus’ objective position and power as God, the second demands a person’s subjective response to Him as Ruler. The Bible has examples of unsaved sinners who addressed Jesus as Lord without submitting to Him (e. g., John 4:11, 15, 19; 9:36). To further illustrate, we could say that during World War II General Douglas MacArthur saved the Philippines. He was able to save them because he had the position and power of a four star general of the United States Army. To the people of the Philippines, however, MacArthur was not their general, nor were they required to submit to him as their general. They only needed to accept the “salvation” that he offered them.
The view called Lordship Salvation
There is a view that teaches a sinner must submit to Jesus as Ruler of his life in order to be saved. Proponents of this view call it Lordship Salvation, though it should be called Commitment Salvation or Submission Salvation since it emphasizes the unbeliever’s subjective response to Jesus Christ as Ruler. Lordship Salvation confuses the objective position of Jesus as Lord with the subjective response to one aspect of His lordship—rulership. Not only does this view reflect poor theological method—soteriology should not be built merely on titles, but it contradicts the Bible’s teaching of salvation by grace through faith. The grace that saves us is the free, unmerited, unconditional gift of God. Making a sinner’s submission to Jesus as the Ruler of his life a condition for salvation destroys the grace of God which makes salvation a free gift that can only be received through faith (Rom. 4:4-5; 11:6; Eph. 2:8-9). Lordship Salvation is also arbitrary because it only emphasizes rulership in the divine title Lord Jesus Christ. To be consistent, they should require sinners to accept Jesus as the Creator, Sustainer, Judge, Prophet, Priest, and King, because all these and more are aspects of His deity. Furthermore, they should demand acceptance of all that the name Jesus means, and all that the title Christ means. Teachers of Lordship Salvation often derogatorily refer to those who believe in the freeness of grace in salvation as no-lordship, or non-lordship. Of course, this is incorrect and deliberately misleading. Their error comes from confusing the objective position of Jesus as the Lord with one’s subjective response to Jesus as their Lord and making it a requirement for salvation. Those who believe in the freeness of grace believe that Jesus must be the Lord (God) to be Savior. The response required of an unbeliever is simply to believe the gospel— who Jesus is, what He has done for our salvation, and what He promises us. There is no lexical or biblical basis for defining believe as submit. Believe simply means to be convinced of something or persuaded that it is true. There are even biblical examples of those who had submitted to Jesus as their Ruler but were not saved (Matt. 7:21-23), and those who were saved when not submitted to Jesus as their Ruler (Acts 5:1-10; 19:18-19). We are not saying a person who comes to Jesus as Savior deliberately rejects the rulership of Jesus Christ. We are saying that to demand a sinner to submit to Him as Master is simply not the issue in salvation, much less is it reasonable to demand this of one who is spiritually dead.
The Lordship of Christ and Sanctification
While we reject Lordship Salvation and its requirement that sinners must submit to Jesus as the Ruler of their lives, we enthusiastically embrace the term Lordship Sanctification or Lordship Discipleship because submitting to Jesus as our Ruler is what the Christian life is all about. Once we know Jesus as Savior, we must learn to relate to Him as our new Master. Many passages admonish us who have believed in Jesus as Savior to now relate and submit to Him as Lord. The point of Romans 6 is that now that we have a new Master in Jesus Christ, we should submit ourselves to Him. Romans 12:1 urges us to present ourselves as “living sacrifices.” We live and die to the Lord (Rom. 14:8-9). As believers we are told to “sanctify the Lord God” in our hearts (1 Peter 3:15) and to “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). Such admonitions would not be needed if we had already done all that in order to be saved.
Conclusion
We can not make Jesus Lord; He is the Lord! We can only submit to Him as servants. As our divine Savior He saves us; as our divine Master He sanctifies us. To keep the grace of the gospel free we must not confuse the faith required of an unbeliever for justification with the many aspects of submission required of believers for sanctification.”
years ago I heard a tape from duluth bible church on lordship salvation and it stated why john mcarthur may have become a lordship salvationist; he had a friend who went to seminary with him who one day came up to john and said he was dropping out of seminary because he did not believe in all of this religious business. JM said he was there when his friend walked the aisle (as if that had anything to do with his salvation) so JM got on this lordship kick. I think that happens to a lot of people today; we feel that if we do not tell the person to do this do that (repent of sins follow Christ, make Him Lord, etc.) that that person will not live the christian life, so we change God’s biblical plan of salvation (faith alone in Christ alone, in His finished work alone) to our own unbiblical plan mike
When I first heard the gospel message in an large indoor arena setting, I felt a strong compulsion moving me to go forward and make a decision for Christ, but I resisted the strong and convincing pull, and angrily yelled at my friend who kindly brought me. Months later, when another believer was reading the Bible to me when, without anticipation, faith arose in my heart, and I believed in my heart, and then I uttered, “I believe.” Then I was immediately filled strongly with the Spirit (but did NOT speak in tongues which I point out as an a side note) and experienced the conscious awareness of God’s supernatural peace and presence. I was ripe for the picking, and open-minded. But it did not seem like I made a willful decision to believe in Christ. But maybe in effect I did. Yet, it seemed like faith spontaneously arose in response to hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17), and I believed. I have talked with many Christians who have had a similar salvation experience to mine. In any event, one planted, another watered, but God gave the increase (1 Corinthians 3:5-8).
Mike,
Interesting statement about JM and his friend. If that was the way it went down, JM should know that walking an aisle doesn’t mean anything, and never did, he should have known that a person could walk five thousand aisles and still not be saved if they didn’t believe the true Gospel.. JM should have known that going into the LS error is not the solution to the walking the aisle thing. The right solution is preaching a true free gift of salvation from Jesus.
Matt,
Good to “see” you again. Thanks for your testimony.
Of course every believer’s testimony experience can be varied and different, some emotional, or in a matter-of-fact way or a simple logical decision to believe in Christ Jesus.
That is why we preach God’s Word and not our experience. The important thing is, as you said, that you believed in Jesus Christ.
As you know, believing in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is the key to eternal life.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Jack, you write “…we preach God’s Word and not our experience.” That’s important. Even Peter in his second epistle said that He eye-witnessed Jesus’ majesty (perceptive experience). But, he added, “we have a MORE SURE WORD of prophecy” (2 Peter 1:16-21).
Matt,
Thanks for that verse.. Perfect application.
In Christ, Jack
When I hear Mr Piper and others like him preach “perseverance” I feel like all I hear is perseverance = stop sinning; of course obedience also equals perseverance, thus O = P = stop sinning. If you come to the end of your life and you can’t show that you have persevered, you were a victim of easy believism. So basically it seems (I say seems because I acknowledge my over-sensitivity) that unless I have a good report card to turn in, then I’m out. Now of course I suppose one might say if I was truly saved that will be the case (which means I must truly question my salvation when I find that once again I have sinned). But if I do have a “report card” to turn in it will not be mine, but Christ’s- and seeing how He scored straight A’s I suspect that I’m going to be fine.
Thanks Tim,
Yes, we rest NOT on our own works, which could never save us; we rest on the shed blood of Christ at Calvary.
As the hymn goes, “Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe;
Sin hath left a crimson stain; he washed it white as snow.
Just another thought- question actually and hopefully it’s relevant. Is Lordship Salvation a security blanket of sorts to some Calvinists? I wondered if it is a necessary development for them because they need a way to prove they are not deluded about their own predestining; for really how could they really know for sure if they really were one of the elect? It’s like you almost do need a punch-list because otherwise you really can’t know if you are elect? So then if one can come up with a system, such as Lordship salvation, I suppose it gives you something to cling too; because otherwise you might just be fooling yourself.
I really hope I do finish well. I hope I can go out like John Chrysostom, saying “Glory to God in all things”, but if this thing depends on how I finish then I never had a shot. I feel like at the end I’ll still realize that I was still really good at sinning and had many un-surrendered areas in my life that I had not made Jesus “Lord of”; and God meanwhile, already had me already sitting with Christ in heavenly places.
Timothy, you have a good point that lordship salvation is a security blanket to calvinists. Because calvinism is based upon belief in yourself as part of the elect. Thus calvinism cannot be based on faith in Jesus Christ’s promise for life. The object of faith in calvinism is not Jesus’ promise. The object of faith in calvinism is the person’s either being part of the elect, or not. And the calvinist must have much lifetime consistent works and much lifetime consistent separation from sin, to convince themselves that they are part of the elect.
A terrifying doctrine indeed. No security available for such a doctrine.
I should add to my previous comment just posted, that there is no security available, because the object of faith is amiss.
Abe, good comments about the “security blanket” that Tim mentioned. I think that your comments should be directed to “Tim” not to “Timothy,” as it appears that they are two different people. They or he can correct me if I am wrong.
Again, good observations from both Abe and Tim.
Oops, sorry about the mix up between Tim and Timothy. Thanks califgracer for setting it straight.
Absolutely correct about Pipers view of (NON) Eternal Security. When I fell into Calvinism 3 years ago, I listened to Piper’s sermons for about 6 months all the while questioning how I could know I was truly saved. I concluded in his belief system you never ever could. You just hope the day you die you were faithful enough and you will wake up in the right place. I knew that had to be wrong because the bible is full of assurance for those who trust God’s promises. The disciples weren’t busy doubting their salvation, they were proclaiming their faith in the Gospel! Thank God I got out of that hellish doctrine, it was nothing but misery. Pure misery…
Hello Timothy, welcome to Expreacherman.com! Please come back often.
Thank you for your heart-felt testimony about how God freed you from the influence of false teaching and brought you to a place of confidence and joy in the promises of God in the Bible.
Your words have blessed me today; thanks!
Saved and kept by grace,
Bruce
Bless you, Timothy. There’s plenty of doubt and misery coming from the Arminian side as well. In fact, it’s everywhere! Just stay close to your bible and toss the rest. (I’m terribly pessimistic, aren’t I? Sorry ’bout that). There is this place after all.
Timothy Trident,
We appreciate your visit and commenting. We pray you will subscribe, visit and comment often.
Out of Calvinism!!! That is great. It seems those addicted to that Reformed teaching have a problem seeing their error. It would be great if every Calvinist in the world could read and understand your testimony of throwing off the Reformed shackles.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Forgive me if this doesn’t belong here, but Timothy’s words inspired me. There is hope, that’s for sure. As with the other Timothy I too was a Calvinist at one point. My Bible school taught it, and by golly so did I, as angrily as I could, because darn it, people were just so plain wrong and arrogant to think they could have something to do with their salvation. There was but one way to understand words as “election” and “predestination”- little did I realize that I was subscribing to the way a 16th Century Lawyer defined it with the help of an isolated early church father who did not have the benefit of being surrounded by corrective peers- Augustine.
Calvinism was, of course, no less that biblical christianity, it was inarguable and if you didn’t like it you didn’t like God (not that He cared), or you were just too emotional and weak. Even today i am amazed at how one word retranslated whole passages of Holy Scripture, instead of Scripture translating the passage. To my Calvinist friends it [predestination as they translate it] is the given, and everything else flows from it. Entire passages must be read in light of it: Thus “He is not willing any should perish” is to be read with the certainty that clearly by “any” God meant “any of the elect”; -I know, because that is exactly what I would have done. My wife who possesses impeccable logic was the first tool of the Holy Spirit to chip away at my certainty- yet her arguments were all emotional to begin with… yet disturbingly it was working as she was looking into the heart of God while I clung to a system which seemed to be getting oddly cold. The next death knell to my Calvinism was my contacts with the (forgive me) Eastern Orthodox Church, because there existed an organism that easily predated not merely Calvin, but even Augustine.
I was opened up to the works of older fathers, like Athanasius, Justin Martyr, and more disturbingly to my Calvinism, Clement of Rome and Ignatius of Antioch. Here were two men who co-incided with the Apostles themselves, recipients of the traditions and teachings handed down- and not a single writing of these most prolific bishops of their day so much as hinted of Calvinism. This was particularly devastating to my Calvinism because I was basically confronted with either 1. The Apostles were among the worst teachers of all time and failed to pass down this critical understanding to their most capable students; or 2. That the apostles themselves did not understand those passages in the way of Augustine and Calvin. I felt compelled to go with number two. Thus Church History completed sweeping away the last vestiges of my Calvinism, and I realized I didn’t even have to classify myself as either Arminian or Calvinist, those were relatively new arrivals. Instead of God being more like Plato’s Ultimate Good, and a Self-concerned Being concerned first and foremost with perfect Moral Order; these early believers informed me that God, while indeed morally perfect, was a God of amazing Self-emptying and Self-denying Love. This God didn’t have to express His sovereignty through determinism, He did it by creating us in His image with powers of choice and direction. He calls on us to be like Him; self-emptying and self-denying. He is much easier to live with than Plato’s Ultimate Good, or Calvin’s Angry Judge. Because He loves, and because I have accepted His free gift is not a threat to His sovereignty, He is self-sustaining anyway; what could I truly take away from Him? He will get all the glory and He is not fretting about it nearly as much as my Calvinist friends are. My apologies for the late-night ramble.
Hi, I am having trouble with a few verses. When we believe on Jesus as our saviour that is our assurance that we are born again. Not our performance after being saved or feelings etc. But I find it confusing when Paul mentions in Hebrews that God only disciplines those who are his children when they are not walking the way they should and also mentions about the warfare of the spirit lusting against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit in Galations and also in Romans 7 that he himself has that on the inside of
him when he wasn’t walking in the spirit. To me it appears that unless you have experienced that on the inside of you then you must not be saved or if God has not disciplined you when you have got out of line that he only disciplines his children so you need that as proof somewhere in your life to know that you are saved. He disciplines with his word. I heard someone teach if you were out of fellowship for a period of time he will be bringing through the word of the bible or a sermon you may hear or whatever he uses to show you to repent of that failure. And if you fail to repent then you let the devil in and he can put sickness and reap mayhem in your life.
I must admit looking back at my life I have been out of line in an area and when reading the word or a sermon it seems like God was speaking to me to change. And I also have experienced that pull to do good but gave into the flesh and didn’t do it. But if you have to have experienced that for confirmation that you are saved doesn’t that take away from saying I know I am saved because Jesus saved me when I trusted him to. Otherwise, it’s like having to say yes Jesus saved me period plus I have had those above experiences to prove it to myself. It’s confusing because satan could
easily bring doubt and say to you, you aren’t saved because you haven’t experienced those two things mentioned above even though you believed Jesus to save you. Any one have any comments on this; I find it confusing.
Alana, you said:
“To me it appears that unless you have experienced that on the inside of you then you must not be saved or if God has not disciplined you when you have got out of line that he only disciplines his children so you need that as proof somewhere in your life to know that you are saved.”
I will address chastening first.
“Chastening” means “instruction.” As such, it is for both obedient and disobedient believers.
There are several ways that we may respond to chastening. First, we may forget the truth of God’s chastening. Second, we may despise God’s chastening. Third, we may become discouraged or bitter by God’s chastening. And last, we may respond to it positively and endure chastening and grow from it.
Hebrews 12:5 seems to describe inappropriate responses – despising or becoming discouraged by God’s chastening:
“And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: ‘My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him’”
Hebrews 12:7 seems to describe the appropriate response – enduring God’s chastening:
“If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?”
How we respond to chastening does not determine whether or not we are God’s children, any more than how our children respond to our discipline determines whether or not they are our children. God desires that we endure chastening and grow from it. He is disappointed when we don’t.
I believe that there are people (both saved and unsaved) who are not currently fully trusting in Christ that self-scourge. That is, chastise themselves when they are not “feeling it.”
Warfare between the flesh and the Spirit is a constant battle. It can manifest itself in a bunch of ways. One way is to trust in feelings when trusting in God’s word doesn’t seem like enough. Other ways include drifting into unsound doctrine, legalism or license. If I ever doubt that this warfare is going on in my heart, I need only remind myself of how I think and react to everyday situations versus how Jesus might think or react to those same situations