Rick Warren, Tony Blair, John Piper – Togetherness?

Apostate Ecumenism at its worst?  Peace at any price, without the Prince of Peace? How long will the followers of these men continue to swallow the lies. Look at the amazing combination of Catholic dogma, New Age, Reformed/Calvinist drivel emerging from Rick Warren’s Mega Church in California. Will the sheep at Warren’s Southern Baptist Saddleback Church ever wake up or have they been so brain dirtied and blinded that they will never see Truth?

Tony Blair

By Ingrid Schlueter – CrossTalk

Rick Warren believes the world can have peace without the Prince of Peace. He is awarding Tony Blair, a pro-abortion, Roman Catholic convert with a peace prize in a few days at Saddleback Church. Click here for Warren’s details. As we see Dr. John Piper’s open embrace of Warren at his Desiring God conferences, one of which will be held at Warren’s church in April, we are reminded of the emergence of a new spirituality that is without the cross of Jesus Christ (just ask Tony Blair about his plan to unite world religions), of “peace” without the author of peace, Jesus Christ, and of an apostate evangelicalism that has now linked arms with the United Nations to push Agenda 21 goals.

The followers of John Piper are in deep denial. They believe that because Piper has never written or spoken anything heterodox, that he must be trustworthy for all time. That is why I wrote my piece on evangelical Bridgers. These are the most dangerous men of all. Blinded by pride and their own sense of importance in the scheme of things, (and ironically, often claiming newfound humility), they end up bridging the gap between false teachers like Rick Warren and biblical Christianity. John Piper has chosen to become a Bridger. My prayers are with those who will blindly cross that bridge while loyally carrying their Piper banners all the way.

From: Saddleback Unveils Blair Peace Program

The Truth, Heaven is FREE << Click

22 responses to “Rick Warren, Tony Blair, John Piper – Togetherness?

  1. It’s not like this is a first offense for Piper. Before Warren he had Driscoll, who needs no comment, and Doug Wilson, one of the architects of the Federal Vision heresy.

    Piper being a “Bridger” is nothing new.

    JanH

  2. JanH Thanks,

    Right you are — Apostasy abounds.

    Still, I think it important to publicize.. Only a few folks feel it important enough to expose these folks.. especially Piper, the icon of modern day Calvinism.. but what can you expect — his theology is based on error to start with.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  3. Yeah. I have a lot of respect and appreciation for Ingrid Schlueter. She was very helpful to me when I was researching Warren. I am just wondering why Piper is only now getting this kind of attention from her? Is it just because it is more Warren? Why did she let Driscoll and Wilson go? Piper really HAS been a problem for a long time. This is not a new thing.

    I know she has done some good in exposing Ray Comfort when he appeared with one of the prosperity teachers (I think it was Creflo Dollar). For all that she appreciates Comfort (which I think is unwarranted) she was willing to call him out on it. But Piper has been given a pass all this time. She really doesn’t let anyone get away with anything, but Piper has not gotten attention from her before this. Perhaps she doesn’t know much about the Wilson thing, though that would surprise me. But everyone knows about Driscoll. Did she do something on that that I am just not aware of? It is very hard to understand how that would have gotten past her.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am glad she is exposing Piper. She is definitely doing the right thing and I don’t mean to detract from that. I am just a little disappointed that she didn’t do it sooner and perplexed as to why not.

    JanH

  4. Jan and friends,

    Ingrid and VCY America are strong supporters of the lordship salvation teachers. They are promoters of John MacArthur, hosting rallies for him and strongly promoting calvinistic and or lordship teachers, such as MacArthur, Paul Washer, John Piper, Ray Comfort, etc.

    But VCY America is also against the emergent church, purpose driven, etc. While I appreciate many of the Crosstalk programs, it has been my observation over the last 10 years that they see, with discernment, the issues of the new movements but don’t see the problems with lordship salvation and calvinism, IMHO.

    Tom Cucuzza

  5. Jan,

    Thanks for your note.. I have not followed Ingrid until lately and obviously not very carefully.. Hard to understand how one can have discernment in one area and neglect it in another.
    ========
    Tom,

    Thanks for your note and admonition.. I have violated my own rules by promoting or quoting someone without checking them out fully. It just goes to prove that folks who can be so clear and right on many points of doctrine can be so far off on others.
    Tom, thanks for your clarity and correction. I must heed my own words and be a Biblical Berean.
    Speaking of which, it reminds me of a note I sent last October to Dave Hunt of The Berean Call, questioning them about favorably quoting Calvinist Gresham Machen as a “great defender of the faith.” Hunt answered that while he disagreed with Machen’s Calvinism, the quote was sound and appropriate. That answer was disappointing. Yet I still subscribe to The Berean Call — but I now read it with caution and hopefully, discernment.
    I fear such as The Berean Call and their likes readily expose the Calvinism of some (MacArthur, Piper, Sproul, et al) and yet ignore the Lordship Salvation teaching of the MacArthurs, et al.
    What a mixed up world in which we live.. Just a passing through, thankfully!

    Thanks to both of you.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  6. I have violated my own rules by promoting or quoting someone without checking them out fully.

    Oh. I thought you knew about her or I would have said something myself. To tell the truth I was kind of surprised to see something by her here. :)

    Tom is right. She is very pro LS. The fact that she and other LSers are exposing many wolves that need to be exposed is one thing that makes them so greatly appreciated among the regular Christians who don’t know much about LS/FG, but know something is wrong with the uber-heretics (Warren, McLaren, et al.) and therefore strongly appreciate people like Ingrid, MacArthur, Howse, et al.

    While they should be commended for their efforts as they are important, they do make things complicated because of their LS views. Unfortunately, there is very, very little of the kind of heresy exposure they do among the FGers so if people are going to get the information they need (and they do need it), they are going to end up getting it from LSers.

    On a related note, IMO, one of the reasons Dallas got kicked to the curb among believers is because they spent almost all their efforts on writing about prophecy almost to the exclusion of everything else. Prophecy is EXTREMELY important and entirely indispensable and we would be lost at sea without their contributions, but it is not all there is. Regular living and how the word Dispensationally divided applies to us and compares with heresy was not all that much of an issue with them. Nor are there many comparative works from them like there have been from the Calvinists against Emergent, Purpose Driven, etc. There are one or two things from the Dispensationalists, but the bulk of their work is prophecy, which most people do not know they need to be concerned about. And it is very difficult to persuade them otherwise as it seems so academic and removed from their lives. So the prophecy teachers got sidelined for more acute issues. On the other hand, much of what we are seeing today is (as Jimmy DeYoung likes to say) setting the stage for prophecy to be fulfilled, as the church would know if it had paid appropriate attention to these prophecy teachers. But because they did not, most people do not know how to interpret these uber-heresies nor do they see (or believe) how they abet the coming supra religion. A multi-factoral issue, I realize. But the terrible irony is that the prophecy teachers have been rendered irrelevant yet their message is what is most needed at this time, as would be clear if it were applied to the events we see today in the church and in the world. The only person I know for sure who is doing that is Dr. Rob Congdon, who tracks the developments in the E.U., and the coming supra religion. And possibly the guy who wrote “Epicenter,” whose name is escaping me at the moment. But he is of questionable quality too. Hopefully there are others, and if so, I would like to know who they are!

    Well, anyway, I suppose that is enough jabbering.

    As for Dave Hunt, Miles Stanford had an exchange with him regarding his pseudo Dispensationalism:

    http://withchrist.org/MJS/huntdavid.htm

    Hunt stands in disagreement with MacArthur on his Calvinism, but he shares his pseudo Dispensational views on the application of the 3 synoptic gospels to the church, and at least to some degree, his LS.

    Hunt is another one whom I tend to appreciate, though intermittently/sporadically. He has some really good things on some important issues. I have a DVD with a great talk he gave on the charismatic witchcraft of the prosperity flock fleecers. I get the Berean Call news letter too. But I usually don’t read it anymore because in spite of his usefulness on some points, I have found him to be difficult to “digest.”

    JanH

  7. Jan,

    Thanks for your note and link. I guess the more we dig the worse it gets. Hunt has been a great source for me on Calvinism.. but I was terribly disappointed to read his answer to my question about MacArthur.. And now your link to Miles Stanford simply confirms in my mind Hunt’s LS, MacArthur error that I found. What a shame but not too unexpected.

    Wouldn’t it be great if, like Tom, everyone put their doctrine full face on their books, blogs and web sites?

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  8. My husband and I go to Mars Hill. We thought we really investigated what they believe and confirmed they do follow the Gospel. We are late 40′s and felt called because of the large # of young people and needing guidance from more experienced Christians. We haven’t found anything that would be considered as compromising Biblical truth. I know Mars Hill pastor Mark Driscoll hasn’t been perfect in his language, plus the music isn’t gospel or classical. But none of these things take away from Marks faithful, fundamental Bible teaching.
    What are we missing? We truly want to know if there is something as we agree that the one we follow isn’t the pastor, but our Savior Jesus Christ.

  9. Go here:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ReallySad1

    And here:

    http://freedom4captives.wordpress.com/

    Others talk about him too. You can google “spiritual abuse driscoll” for more info.

    JanH

  10. Lisa,

    Thanks for dropping by. I appreciate your desire to search for truth. You are in Driscoll’s church so you see what happens day to day better than we who are bystanders searching the Web for videos and writings by Driscoll. There are many from which to choose to prove our point.

    Mars Hill Church’s Statement of Faith is OK except for an occasional use of the Calvinist words “Total Depravity.” However we can search the Internet and see that he is a doctrinaire Calvinist and veers considerably from his rather Conservative Statement of Faith.

    Driscoll preached at Contemplative, inter-spiritualist, apostate Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral church June 14, 2009. This is a wrong signal to send to and teach his followers.

    Driscoll is a 5 point Calvinist who welcomes all “Christian” religions to fellowship at Mars Hill Church. A Video from January ’08. Watch:

    In the above video he acknowledges Piper, MacArthur and others as fellow 5 point Calvinists.

    Driscoll was/is an Emergent Pastor – who may have come out but according to radical Matt Slick of Hyper-Calvinist CARM web site (which I DO NOT recommend) speaks of Driscoll as an Emergent leader and “he is a breath of fresh air.”

    Driscoll is quoted in an Archived Emergent web site for his “innovative ways” of preaching in a multi sensory environment – typical of mystical Emergent teaching: http://web.archive.org/web/19991008023909/www.youngleader.org/specialedition/pg3_8.html

    You no doubt know that Driscoll has mixed gender, open forum sexual teachings at Mars Hill. You may find it by putting “Mark Driscoll sex” (without the quotes) into your search engine and, (on my results), the first listing is on “Christian Sex (Mature Content)” from Driscoll and his wife at Mars Hill Church. You will also get videos of Driscoll supposedly describing different methods of sex. The title alone is disgusting, so I will take his word for it without visiting. Most Conservative Bible preachers believe that is a subject for private consultation, not public discussion with Q and A. I did not go to the site so I must take Mars Hill word for it, “Mature Content.” This is not the way of Biblical Christianity.

    Lisa, This is only a partial list of my disagreements with Driscoll. My study of God’s Word tells me that Mars Hill is not a church I could recommend. However, be a Berean and use Discernment.

    Thanks again and drop back by again soon.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  11. I hope Lisa is the true thing. Last night, when I followed her link, my gadget warned me that it was a potential phishing site. Just though you oughta know. Even so, the info you put up will teach other sincere lookers.

  12. Thanks Pearl,

    I believe Lisa is the real thing.. Her email address tells me she is an artist and consultant with a web site near Seattle where she sells her art. I believe she is honestly searching for truth and answers. Her posted web URL should have left off the “art@” hence your security warning. Not a problem.

    I sincerely pray Lisa will investigate and heed the warning she sees on this Blog about Driscoll and his ilk.

    One thing I meant to mention is that Driscoll, like many doctrinaire Calvinists, pretend there only two possibilities for Christians:
    (1) Calvinists who they say are “chosen for salvation” or
    (2) Arminians who tend to believe one can lose their salvation.
    I am neither. Scripture says once a person makes the honest decision to trust Jesus Christ alone as his Savior, he can never lose it. Eternal life given by Jesus Christ is ETERNAL. John 3:16
    Contrary to Calvinists, people are not chosen for salvation, they must decide to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. (Whosoever believeth in Him).
    Question, why would anyone believe in a Calvinist god who would say to my friend Pete, “Hmmm.. I will choose you for Heaven but not your Mom — I’ll leave Mom to go to Hell, I’ll not even give her a chance to believe”?
    Years ago, Pete, a young man whom I led to Christ, told me he answered someone with that very statement. For years Pete and I prayed for his Mom and tried to lead her to Christ but she refused. She died without Christ. Some short time later a Calvinist came to Pete and tried to convince him to change his theology to Calvinism.. That sentence above was Pete’s answer plus, “How could anyone believe in a god like that”? His Mom refused, not God!

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  13. Good to know, Jack. You’re on top of it!

    My apologies, Lisa. Just lookin’ out for my friend, here.

  14. The You Tube channel from Really Sad is by someone who was a member at Mars Hill when Driscoll changed the by laws-which is a subject we could discuss by itself, except that would only land us in the “sinning through questioning” camp. See below for an explanation of that. I don’t know if Really Sad is still attending there or not. His/her purpose seems to be to expose what happened to these 2 pastors and some of the doings surrounding that event. Because Really Sad is/was a member of Mars Hill church I think Lisa would find the videos and accompanying notes to be of interest. The other site is by someone who attended Mars Hill for some time and her observations and concerns. Both are less about the doctrine and more about the practices at Mars Hill. A church can have a perfectly legitimate doctrinal statement but prove to be a very unsafe atmosphere for (usually) the member/person in the pew. (I don’t think Mars Hill’s doctrine is likely to be perfectly legitimate as Driscoll is 5 point Calvinist and, I suspect, Covenantal, but that is not the main point I am making right now.)

    The last video Really Sad posted is of Driscoll speaking from the pulpit about an overly inquisitive child who is like a “little lawyer” to his/her parents. He says:

    “How many of you were this kid for your parents? You were like this very little attorney who had lots of questions for your parents. And it wasn’t that you had questions, you were always questioning, ‘Why? How come? Johnny gets to do that. What do you think about this? What about the war in Iraq?’ They were like, ‘You’re 4! Shut up and drink your juice box.’”

    According to Really Sad, there was a real person behind those remarks. There was a lawyer in the membership who questioned the firing of 2 pastors and the change in the by laws. Really Sad says her membership was suspended and Driscoll suggested she listen to the sermon he was going to preach that day-which was the sermon in which this “illustration” was used.

    So, the lawyer member was cast as a child who asked lawyer-like questions of her parents, which would place the member in the position of a child and the church leadership, Driscoll in particular, in the position of the member’s parent. This is an inappropriate simile as, unless they actually are under the age of 18, church members are not as children to the leadership. And if the leadership sees them that way, or they are taught to see themselves that way, then there is something desperately wrong with the church’s understanding of the authority a church leader has. And since the member here is a practicing lawyer, it is highly unlikely she is a minor, let alone a 4 year old. All that and we are less than 20 seconds into that one video.

    That is enough for now, lest I be sinning by tempting others to ask too many questions. I must have a juice box around here somewhere I can occupy myself with….

    JanH

  15. I’m not sure why all that is bolded. I only wanted some of it bolded. I thought I put the code in the right place but I guess I didn’t. :( The bolding should have stopped after “the member’s parent.”

    And I should have said see the video for an explanation of sinning by questioning, not see below for an explanation.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    JanH

  16. Jan,

    Thanks for that info.. I edited your comment to correct the bolding error.

    It is surprising to me that these pastors who make recorded statements don’t see that such will come back to bite them.. but obviously they see no error or simply don’t care.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  17. Thank you, Jack! :)

  18. Im confused… do we go to hell if we dont get every interpretation exactly correct? sheesh,I know the road is narrow but I think my head is going to pop off with frustration. :(

  19. Scarletletterman,

    No need to be frustrated. The simplicity of God’s Word is overwhelming, isn’t it? The message of the Bible is that God’s salvation is FREE with no strings attached. Christ Himself said: “….He (God) gave His only begotten Son (Christ) that whosoever believeth in Him (Christ) should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16) These verses are all from the King James Version of the Bible. So clear.

    Simply put, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
    And:”Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” Titus 3:5

    And by all means: “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:3

    Simple and uncomplicated. Simply by your decision to trust or believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior
    Please, before your head pops off, read the Header page above entitled, “Eternal Life for You.”

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  20. Thankyou Jack, Jesus saved me from Hell and alcoholism 2 years ago almost. Life is a joy! Then the Holy spirit led me away from T.B.N and its horrible” teachers”. I have been listening to John Macarther since. Just so much to sort through.Your right maybe I will just relax and trust Jesus since all men are so Fall-able. also in Christ , :)

  21. ScarletLetterman,

    Yes, men tend to twist Scripture to suit their fancy. Be very careful that you do as the wonderful Christians did in Berea when Paul preached to them. They listened to Paul and then went back and checked Scripture to verify what they heard was true.
    It is a tragedy that most TV “religious” broadcasting stations are totally off the wall and contrary to God’s Word.

    Stay in touch — will be praying for you as you immerse yourself in Truth.

    In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack

  22. Pingback: Andy Stanley’s Catalyst “Leadership” Now in SoCal with Rick Warren | Notes From A Retired Preacher

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